IVA: Warren Will Test Multiculturalists

49 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

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  moscow_minidoka on December 18 at 10:04 a.m.

  It shows that Obama is far more tolerant and inclusive than I reasonably expected him to be. I’m not a fan of Warren, but good for Obama - it’s an obvious olive branch.

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  Sparky on December 18 at 10:20 a.m.

  I often check out the tv evangelists. Warren does not very often make me throw things at my tv. I also participated in a “Purpose driven life” workshop and it was a wonderful experience. I believe being open to different points of view is a sign of a good leader. I have always believed that Democrats, Republicans, and ? have something to bring to the table. No leader should forget that we are a nation with diverse backgrounds and needs. I HOPE that this will trickle down to state and local politics. My Christmas wish is to a more inclusive government.

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  MikeK on December 18 at 10:33 a.m.

  I agree with MM and Sparky. Obama knows, and the Democrats are knowing, that you can’t write off everyone who is born again or Evangelical as a monolithic block. Yes, intense partisan Fundamentalists aren’t likely to be open to entreaties from Obama or any Democrat, but I have always perceived a big difference between Evangelicals and Fundamentalists. I’ve known committed Evangelical Christians of both parties with whom I work well (regardless of my status as a Catholic, which some Fundamentalists don’t appreciate). However I’ve never met a Fundamentalist Democrat. I had a strong then-Fundamentalist in Texas whom I worked with at Kinko’s and liked a lot tell me that I wasn’t a Christian because I was Catholic. At the time that comment baffled me, but that was his gig, and we still got along. I saw him years later when I was back in Dallas on a visit, and we had a beer and unprompted he said he no longer fit in with his old Fundamentalist church. I reminded him of his decade-old comment to me while we worked a late shift at Kinko’s together and he was mortified. No matter, we reconnected, got along great, and occasionally stay in touch today.

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  BlueinIdaho on December 18 at 10:35 a.m.

  My hope is that Warren’s association with Obama and his obvious tolerance for others will rub off on Mr. Warren. Then maybe he will realize that Jesus loves all of his children.

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  hmoffsuite on December 18 at 10:49 a.m.

  I echo moscow mini. Much better than having the rev Wright. :~) It was a good move. Our Country is in the need of serious repair on the political front. We need to stop the exptreme partisan stuff and pull together as one country, esp during times like we are going through. Obama has exceeded my expectations so far, fwiw.

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  Kendramama on December 18 at 11:06 a.m.

  Wasn’t it at Saddleback Church that one of the McCain/Obama debates took place?
  Yet I believe the general consensus- in that one, anyhow- was that McCain came out on top… I seem to remember that as being the debate where Obama fumbled out, “that’s above my paygrade.”
  And now he chooses the same pastor that officiated over that? That’s pretty cool of him, actually. Should definitely earn him points with the conservatives.
  (I guess I’d count myself as being mildly conservative, and he did with me, anyhow!)

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  Sisyphus on December 18 at 11:14 a.m.

  He will receive a polite reception for the most part.

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  Sisyphus on December 18 at 11:26 a.m.

  I can’t support the selection of a pastor that would use government to deny legal benefits to a signifcant and innocent segment of our society. The choice was meant to demonstrate how inclusive Obama can be but in the cause of civil rights you don’t exalt the advocate for oppression on the grounds that you want to be inclusive. This choice was a flub.

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  hmoffsuite on December 18 at 11:43 a.m.

  Sis >> ” can’t support the selection of a pastor that would use government to deny legal benefits to a signifcant and innocent segment of our society.”

  You don’t need to support the decision. Just accept it. Respect the feelings and opinions of those that differ in opinion from you. You don’t always need to be so binary on these issues.

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  Sisyphus on December 18 at 11:48 a.m.

  Binary, that’s funny. Like I have a choice on accepting it.

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  Sisyphus on December 18 at 11:50 a.m.

  I will accept it hmoff if you’ll accept the California Supreme Court’s decision overturning Prop 8.

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  hmoffsuite on December 18 at 11:55 a.m.

  Can’t do that, Sis. I don’t like the idea of a couple of judges making new law against the will of the people. I am sure you understand.

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  Sparky on December 18 at 11:55 a.m.

  Good point Sis. Gay/civil rights fight should not be forgotten. The need to keep dialog open is the only way for the possibility for change. It is a fine edge of the sword Obama is walking and he will not walk this edge with some cuts on the bottom of his feet. But our country needs a chance to heal and come together as one. I hope our next step in equal rights for all is not a bloody one but one accomplished through reason and compassion. But I drink and I am filled with a little hope right now.

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  scootermom on December 18 at 11:56 a.m.

  I will turn down the volume on my TV when Warren is on. I reject his teachings on gays, abortion, the status of women and the role of religion in government. I sincerely hope God does not answer his prayers.

  I will offer my own prayer for a successful administration, based on my own Christian beliefs.

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  Sparky on December 18 at 11:57 a.m.

  Darn it even with preview. “he will not = he will”

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  Sisyphus on December 18 at 12:11 p.m.

  “I don’t like the idea of a couple of judges making new law against the will of the people. I am sure you understand.” (sigh) again with the education of hmoff. See, there’s this tiny little document called the Constitution that trumps the tyrrany of the majority on basic human rights and it has this nifty little clause that guarantees that all people have equal protection under the law. Courts have acknowledged its utility time and time again when the majority used governement to keep people down because of the color of their skin, or their religion, or some other discrete and insular reason that can’t be helped like being gay. Because, hmoff, separate isn’t equal. End of basic civics lesson.

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  idawa on December 18 at 12:12 p.m.

  He is the most prominent pastor in America at the moment and Obama is trying to be a leader for all the people, not just the leader of his party. This is a great change from Bush. Sure, I don’t agree with his choice, but then again I don’t really care is the designated official spouter of superstitions that day.

  Sis point is valid, it is bad symobolgy, but I would be more concerned if I thought that this was indicative of who Obama would pick to replace Justice Steven and Brier (assuming they go next), but I don’t think that is the case. My hope is that Obama will be a force driving us to equal recognition of civil rights for all citizens, including homosexual, instead of pushing us to cling to old prejudices and misconceptions.

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  hmoffsuite on December 18 at 12:19 p.m.

  idawa >> “it is bad symobolgy,”

  According to whom. I think it is great. And, in order to heal the wounds of the election, is appropriate. Both sides need to give and take a little if this Country is going to heal.

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  Sisyphus on December 18 at 12:19 p.m.

  Exactly why I’m not too worked up over it. I’ll wait for the decider to start deciding things before I get all up in his face about it.

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  JIMMYMAC on December 18 at 3:10 p.m.

  Sis,
  you seriously crack me up. Of course I’m partial as I like Rick Warren but you libs trumpeted Obama’s message of change, tolderance and open mindedness during the campaign but now you are throwing your own guy under the bus because he selected a guy that isn’t one of your own to do his invocation? So much for change.

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  JIMMYMAC on December 18 at 3:24 p.m.

  Sorry, Sis didn’t see your last post. I do applaud Barack and know that there will be many things he will do that I won’t agree with but he is growing on me already.

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  thomg57 on December 18 at 4:07 p.m.

  JIMMYMAC, obviously the message of “change, tolderance and open mindedness” wasn’t taken by you and others who continue to label large swaths of people as “you libs” every time someone states an opinion with which YOU disagree; very “Rush-like” of you. Sad, too. And can we all lose the latest “it” phrase —”throwing your own guy under the bus—, or at least use it in the proper manner. Nobody is throwing Obama anywhere. Sure, some folks disagree with him on this issue and others, it in no way equates to “throwing him under the bus”.

  Face it, choosing an ant-gay, anti-choice minister to participate in a very public way in the inauguration is a change light years ahead of anything even remotely approximated by the prior administration which gave loyalty questionnaires to mid level civil servants.

  I hope one of the things that grows on you and some of your fellow conservatives during the coming years is the discontinuation of the use of the already tired phrase “so much for change” even when not appropriate as well as the divisive term “one of your own”. That’d be a change I could believe in.

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  Aliasjax on December 18 at 4:49 p.m.

  If he really wanted to be tolerant of divergent views, he should have picked the guy, was it Dawkins, who argued for the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster deity as creator of the universe. Picking some guy who holds essentially the same worldview except for a handful of political hot potatoes hardly seems risky.

  It’s actually akin to McCain’s pick of Palin - done for the same political reason - to appeal to the more conservative among us. Those who criticized McCain’s politically calculating move then should be equally critical of this obvious okie-doke by Obama.

  It’s all political theater.

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  JIMMYMAC on December 18 at 10:14 p.m.

  ThomG,
  Honesty-meant not disrespect. Shouldn’t have painted a broad stroke with “you” liberals. I do here “you conservatives all the time on here but I really don’t take offense to it. What I meant my you liberals trumpeted his call for change which I take as reaching across party aisles and finding we have more common ground than some of the hot button, knee jerking topics that we will have to agree to disagree on. I think that is the first step toward instilling that we can respectfully disagree. Obama promised change in this country and I am now giving kudos for him taking strides in the reaching across party aisles. That was one of my favorite things about McCain (yes, moreso in the past than the last four years). I think Obama is walking the walk on his promise to reach out here. Many on the left will not agree with Rick Warren on many of his stances as I don’t alwasy agree with my own pastor 100% of the time, and I have seen you post that as well. If you look at many of the social stances regarding famine, poverty and AIDS I think there is a lot you will agree with him on. He’s not the poster boy for many whom MikeK would label fundamentalists and there I think he lies somewhere in the middle. I’m embarrassed I didn’t phrase it this way to begin with. I was pointing the finger with three pointing right back at me. Lastly,my “so much for change” wasn’t mocking Obama. It was moreso saying hey, the country is divided close to 50% on which party to vote for, so that means we are going to have to find common ground, as difficult as it may seem. Obama promised it, McCain promised it, now we have to respect it if it doesn’t mean we get everything we hope for.

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  Arch_Druid on December 18 at 11:36 p.m.

  Fox news had a blog post on this very issue. I thought I might post there, and the post vanished. That does happen. So, more locally, this is what I shall present: I am fully aware that Obama agreed to have a debate with McCain at Pastor Warren’s Saddleback church, with Pastor Warren officiating. I am fully aware that to those hostile to Obama’s pro-choice and etc. views, he “flubbed” rather than engaging in McCain style certitudes. Well, let’s put it bluntly, there is no certitude in being against abortion as there is no certitude in being pro-choice. Each argument has its flaws and offers no easy solutions. My stance as a pro-choicer is however simple, I simply do not care to have gvt involved in a matter such as this. And the role of the church does not need gvt to ratify it.

  So, onto the matter that I thought to post at Fox news, where one can find in the scripture of Luke, love even one’s enemies… Seems to me that President elect Obama invites a man who is both hostile to him and his political philosophy to offer an inaugural invocation, is simply Obama respecting the biblical scripture itself in actual practice. When Pastor Warren accepted the invitation, he too would have accepted in practice this scripture in Luke. And to go even further, in the post Synoptic gospels—the writings such as the following letters from the apostles—”John” in a letter informs his fellow Christians of the need to love one another, for did not God create you both? On Fox News, there seemed to be plenty of posters who while tossing scripture back and forth, failed to look at the ones that most correctly governed both men’s actions.

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