Wild Card/Sunday — 12.20.09

62 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

• 

  marmitetoasty on December 20 at 8:02 a.m.

  Ok, have a butchers at this……… Frankie who is a matie of mine that lives here in the village with his wifey and family and who is one of our Scout leaders won something this week - 500 quid (actually $1000)…. to do with the jebus story thing…. anyways, go have a peep, its only 30 seconds long so it wont hurt ya :) and its to do with the churches so its well proper..

  http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7764000/7764231.stm

  To dam funny, I think he got the idea off my lads Chinese Yam Videos LOL

  x

• 

  Stickman on December 20 at 10:10 a.m.

  Marmie, I did have a butcher’s at it and it was pretty good. Seems an easy way to pick up 500 quid. Have a nice Christmas.

• 

  Arch_Druid on December 20 at 10:27 a.m.

  Just in time for the holidays. Don’t you just love it when people will rant about the need to maintain the original intent of the U.S. Constitution then nitpick original intent when it comes to the first amendment? That was (CDA Press letter) Mark Gustafson’s position when he was rebutting a Press article about bibles in public classrooms.

  Apparently, JAMES MADISON should have made his position clear when he presented the first 10 amendments to the U.S. Constitution as the Bill of Rights, that Congress simply could not ESTABLISH a separation of church and state by not establishing religion nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof; he should have CLEARLY STATED IT IN WRITING. Well he did, in his own letters. Guess what, it is only Thomas Jefferson who is most often referred to. And Madison only established his opposition to gvt intervention in religion when he organized a tax revolt against church deacons being able to get their salaries out of the public coffers.

  Question, why does Mr. Gustafson think that it is only in a public school that children should be exposed to the bible? Are their parents incapable? Is their church incapable? What if the students don’t happen to be Christian? That’s a particularly sticky situation. So, Congress shall not establish religion nor prohibit the free exercise thereof. But according to Gustafson, THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS funded by gvt can establish religion and prohibit any exercise of belief that isn’t acceptable to the majority (esp. if they are Christian). That’s what nitpicking the first amendment gets you.

• 

  hmoffsuite on December 20 at 1:49 p.m.

  Just 34% Say Passing Health Care Bill is Better Than Passing Nothing

  http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/december_2009/just_34_say_passing_health_care_bill_is_better_than_passing_nothing

• 

  Phaedrus on December 20 at 2:07 p.m.

  Just 34% Say..

  So are you in favor of governing by popularity polls?

• 

  hmoffsuite on December 20 at 2:22 p.m.

  Phaedrus. >> “So are you in favor of governing by popularity polls?”

  Good question. The answer is no, I favor governing for the will of the people, not by having a democrat congress passing legislation that is contrary to the will of the people soley to further their own agendas.

• 

  BrandonHansen on December 20 at 2:30 p.m.

  Anyone watching the Seahawks game… good god, two bad teams and it’s just a BLAH fest.

  Brandon Hansen
  Just South of North
  http://justson.blogspot.com

• 

  spokelooneh on December 20 at 2:39 p.m.

  57% of the people oppose the war in Afghanistan, and 56% of the people oppose sending more troops to Afghanistan in an early December poll.

  http://www.pollingreport.com/afghan.htm

  Should Obama be following the will of the people on this HMO? Why, or why not?

• 

  hmoffsuite on December 20 at 3:01 p.m.

  Spoke. Fair question. Really. A tough one. I think in the case of war, the administration should call the shots. They have intel the general public doesn’t have access to. It is a matter of a national security and that causes it to be somewhat more important to our Country, than the passage of a health bill, right now. We do, in fact, need health care reform but it is more important to get it right than getting it done, in a hurry. A vote on Christmas Eve? Give me a break, Reid. What are you hiding in that bill?

• 

  Phaedrus on December 20 at 3:41 p.m.

  passing legislation that is contrary to the will of the people

  Well since the Democrats gained control of both Houses based upon “the will of the people” then I believe they are doing exactly what is expected of them.

  Interesting how you are able to want popular support for a domestic policy you oppose, but are willing to let the administration call the shots on a foreign policy you support. Interesting, but not surprising.

• 

  hmoffsuite on December 20 at 3:53 p.m.

  Phaedrus >> “Well since the Democrats gained control of both Houses based upon “the will of the people” then I believe they are doing exactly what is expected of them”

  When Obama was elected, he was because of the many things he promised he would do. And, hasn’t. Like a bipartisan administration, open display of pending legislation, like on CSpan, for example etc. And, when it comes time for this bill to be crafted, the democrats go into a room and lock the door. Not one republican included in the drafting of the bill. Then, we learn that certain States actually got financial benefits in return for their support. (bribes) That kind of stuff is very much disliked by the citizens. Opinions of Obama and his administration have changed since Obama was elected. Look at his favorability numbers. Horrible, worst for a President for a long time. Obama isn’t doing a lot of what he said he would do.

• 

  LarrySpencer on December 20 at 4:01 p.m.

  I’m at a loss on this one. How is it that it is legal for some states to be bribed with free health care perks to get the support to pass the measure.

  Seriously, how is that legal? It clearly is a bribe, right?

• 

  Stickman on December 20 at 4:06 p.m.

  BrandonHansen: Why would anyone watch a Seahawks game, unless they were bored of course.

• 

  hmoffsuite on December 20 at 4:09 p.m.

  >> Seriously, how is that legal? It clearly is a bribe, right?

  Absolutely and it isn’t playing well. Nelson is taking heat over it even in Nebraska. Its just plain not right to have that going on in congress. Vermont and La. got bribes also. We got ‘change’ alright.

• 

  hmoffsuite on December 20 at 4:10 p.m.

  Stickman. Watching the Seahawks lately is about like going to a funeral.

• 

  LarrySpencer on December 20 at 4:26 p.m.

  What did Vermont and La get?

• 

  LarrySpencer on December 20 at 4:33 p.m.

  If this is the “change” I would think that we should start making aliances with Ca or New York to make sure we are the not being pillaged by the other states.

  Is the future of American politics? Passing laws with open bribes to get the number of votes needed? Is this how it is done in Chicago?

  What is next? A “surcharge” tax for living in one state but not another?

• 

  Phaedrus on December 20 at 4:35 p.m.

  “Like a bipartisan administration”—

  Can’t have one when you are the only one willing to play. The GOP has been the Party of No on everything that this administration has proposed, content to play partisan politics instead of doing the job of governance that they were elected to do.

  “when it comes time for this bill to be crafted, the democrats go into a room and lock the door.”

  That is just a blatant lie. The committee of six (Senate Finance Committee, 3 Democrats, 3 Republicans) spent the summer working on a bill despite the fact that one GOP Senator, Enzi of Wyoming, told a town hall that he was on the committee to make sure the bill did not pass, and another, Grassley (R-IA) sent out a fundraising letter falsely claiming that the reform bills would include death panels. So much for bipartisan efforts

  “Then, we learn that certain States actually got financial benefits in return for their support.”

  Not what I like to see, but the truth is, this has been happening since the First Continental Congress.

  “Look at his favorability numbers. Horrible, worst for a President for a long time.”

  Yeah, since December 2008 when W was in office. Long time? Seriously?

• 

  Phaedrus on December 20 at 4:37 p.m.

  Is the future of American politics?

  Read you history LarrySpencer this is nothing new.

• 

  hmoffsuite on December 20 at 4:38 p.m.

  Larry. Here is a link. Hawaii got a bribe also. They called the La deal the Louisiana purchase. Its corrupt and out of control. And, its all coming from the Obama administration and the democrat congress. Go, rham, go.

  http://www.outsidelansing.com/diary/430/democrats-use-legal-bribing-in-the-us-senate

• 

  LarrySpencer on December 20 at 4:45 p.m.

  Phaedrus, when you said

  “Well since the Democrats gained control of both Houses based upon “the will of the people” then I believe they are doing exactly what is expected of them.”

  It came off EXACTLY like when in “The Downfall” Hitler is lashing out and ranting that the German civilians deserve to die, because they supported him and since he is going to die, they should die as well.

  Since the voters were stupid enough to vote the Dems in, they should shut up as the Dems crash our Health care system into the rocks? Is that what you mean, or did I take that wrong?

• 

  lastdemoinidaho on December 20 at 5:01 p.m.

  Here is one Democrat (barely hanging on) that believes that the Senate has gone nuts. The deal-making on this abortion of a health care bill is not acceptable.

  Instead of giving Ben Nelson this outlandish bribe, he should have been taken to the woodshed and threatened with any and all available political doom.

  If necessary, let the bill languish, or better yet, invoke the rule change that only requires a simple majority vote. This 60 percent vote-need is too restrictive and causes too much grief for both sides.

  A disgusted citizen who wishes this would all go away. I have my health insurance…the rest of you can …. BAH HUMBUG!

• 

  lastdemoinidaho on December 20 at 5:05 p.m.

  This new avatar reflects my current political mood

• 

  ralphpbartholdt on December 20 at 5:14 p.m.

  BrandonHansen: Hasselback and Mora should have been made to wear skirts and do an hour of post-game burpies after that performance. Same with Green Bay. The whole team. We’ll see what Favre and the Vikings bring. Deep passing, turf grinding mayhem I hope. It’s Sunday in America afterall.

  www.skookumfoto.blogspot.com

• 

  Nick_Adams on December 20 at 5:15 p.m.

  hmoff cracks me up. First, Obama spends three months crafting a new strategy for Afghanistan and was “dithering”. Second, health care reform, which has been debated for seven months, is being “rushed”. Puh-leeze.

  At least the Senators from VT, LA, and NE are doing what’s best for their states. The Republicans are only doing what’s best for their party. Sad.

• 

  Nick_Adams on December 20 at 5:18 p.m.

  A lot of great finishes in the NFL today. Oakland beats Denver with less than 30 seconds after going through three QBs. Pittsburgh pulls out a last minute win w/Rothlisberger passing for more than 500 yards. San Diego wins with last second field goal. Good stuff on a winter’s day in deep and dark December.

• 

  LarrySpencer on December 20 at 5:20 p.m.

  “A disgusted citizen who wishes this would all go away. I have my health insurance…the rest of you can …. BAH HUMBUG!”

  But…but… we need you to help float everybody else who wants care but wants other people to pay for it!

  They should call this bill the “It’ll make them into Republicans” bill.

  Full Disclosure Note.

  If the shoe was on the other foot, I would kick the Republicans just as hard. And I have decried both Bush and Butch for bad politics, although I don’t think either of them was doing so much harm to something so important to everybody.

• 

  hmoffsuite on December 20 at 5:22 p.m.

  Nick Adams >> “Second, health care reform, which has been debated for seven months, is being “rushed”. Puh-leeze”

  If you can’t see that this bill is being ‘rushed’ through, you are one blind dude. You and a very few others. Everything Obama has done was a rush job. “Don’t waste a good crisis”, remember? Rushed the stimulus with dire threats if it didn’t pass right now. It was worthless anyway but they are saving the majority of it to help their elections in the fall. These guys are from where?

• 

  LarrySpencer on December 20 at 5:32 p.m.

  “At least the Senators from VT, LA, and NE are doing what’s best for their states.”

  Is it the Democrat position that this is to be defended as a moral right?

  No, Nick, they aren’t doing what is best for their state, or their people, or their grandchildren. Undermining the principal of fairness in the way Congress creates laws so shockingly does not help anyone, other than big corporations that would love to see the people become so desensitized that nothing will seem obscene ever again. Then we can just accept that “americorp” will buy and sell us, and our children’s future, when they create loopholes in the law so they can directly bribe for votes.

  Seriously, folks. This is what happens when the end is seen as more important than the integrity of the process.

• 

  lastdemoinidaho on December 20 at 5:44 p.m.

  Larry, I may be a disallusioned and disgusted Demo., but nothing short of a lobatomy or brain exchange could turn me into a GOP.
  The most likely outcome of all this is that I may go non-political and quit voting althogether.

  Why bother if we elect Democrats like Minnick? Arggghh.

• 

  Nick_Adams on December 20 at 5:44 p.m.

  @hmoff: Why on earth would anyone waste a crisis? Of course, unlike Bush and Katrina, you have to actually be able to recognize a crisis.

  @larry: I forget, are you a resident of NE, VT or LA? I realize there has been a lot of confusion as to where exactly you live.

  It’s been fun, boys. I’m off to Sisyphus’ annual Christmas party. mmmm…chili.

• 

  LarrySpencer on December 20 at 5:47 p.m.

  Come to think of it, this is just an extreme example of Pork Barrel Politics. And Idaho’s Stimson is one of the worst.

  They are all a bunch of scum.

  Except Sali. 15+ years in the legislature, and he never voted for any measure that raised taxes.

• 

  mike_s on December 20 at 5:48 p.m.

  After everything the previous administration did to set our country back, it is difficult to get worked up over process. Sorry Spencer and Hmo, you guys still sound like sore losers.

• 

  Cindy_H on December 20 at 6:40 p.m.

  “It’s been fun, boys. I’m off to Sisyphus’ annual Christmas party.”

  *sniff* Guess my invite got lost in the mail.
  sigh…

• 

  nic on December 20 at 7:05 p.m.

  “Except Sali. 15+ years in the legislature, and he never voted for any measure that raised taxes.”

  That’s because he was too busy saying moronic statements and doing all he could to embarrass Idaho.

• 

  spokelooneh on December 20 at 7:25 p.m.

  There has never been such an egregious political bribery as what happened in the House when Big Pharma handed out cash, literally in the House chamber, while the Medicare actuary who said the bill would cost hundreds of billions more than Republicans said was threatened with his job, and an ENORMOUS gift of taxpayer money was handed over to Big Pharma.

  $45M (over 10 years) for Nebraska is a pittance compared to the multi-hundred BILLION dollar give-away the Republicans did with Medicare Part D, and enacted by breaking all the rules there were for voting on the measure until they bribed or threatened various Congress Critters to vote for it, in the wee hours of the night.

  I’m with lastdemoinidaho. The Dems should invoke the “nuclear option”, and pass a REAL health care reform bill via reconciliation (majority rules) process. But they likely won’t, as none of the leaders have any cojones, particularly Harry Reid, who’s going to lose his seat anyway in his next election.

  Reconciliation is exactly how the Republicans passed Bush’s tax cuts for the rich, twice.

• 

  bpoole on December 20 at 7:51 p.m.

  I would propose the democrats go with the “nuclear option.”

• 

  Phaedrus on December 20 at 7:53 p.m.

  The political world’s winners and losers in health-care reform

  “— Ben Nelson: The Nebraska senator played the legislative process like a virtuoso, not only getting stricter language about abortion funding included in the final bill but also scoring another huge plum — the promise of full federal funding for the expansion of Medicaid in the Cornhusker State. Of Nelson’s bargaining, one Senate Democratic operative said: “A one-man study on how the Senate works — they should teach this in civics class.”

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2009122002431.html

• 

  LarrySpencer on December 20 at 8:07 p.m.

  I’m wondering what the odds are that this year or at the most, 2011, the Idaho pulls its own nuclear option on medicaid.

  That would be the “opt-out” option.

  http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YzBhZTA3NzRhYmUyMjExMDEzZWM0ZDQ4NTNlMTNiZTY=&w=MA==

• 

  Phaedrus on December 20 at 8:09 p.m.

  LarrySpencer = Godwin.

  End of discussion.

• 

  LarrySpencer on December 20 at 8:14 p.m.

  Phaedrus= fail.

• 

  LarrySpencer on December 20 at 8:15 p.m.

  Phaedrus= fail.

  but nice try.

  ;-)

• 

  ralphpbartholdt on December 20 at 8:27 p.m.

  If they had used the Griz playbook they would have suffered a heartbreak loss in the final. Speaking of pigskins, today was a hog. Roethlisberger was raised from the dead, Cinci lost, and the Vikings once again went the way of a Midwestern runestone: farcical. Wonder what’s happening in the world of long drive golf.

• 

  bpoole on December 20 at 8:34 p.m.

  Larry, that would be the most ignorant thing Idaho would do. First, if Idaho would drop medicaid, the individuals needing medical care would still get care in emergency rooms where payment does not need to be made at time of service. The bills would fall on the local counties to pick up the tab which would create a larger burden on the tax payers in respective counties. And the “nuclear option” doesn’t work to opt-out!

• 

  Phaedrus on December 20 at 8:37 p.m.

  LarrySpencer on December 20 at 4:45 p.m.

  “It came off EXACTLY like when in “The Downfall” Hitler is lashing out and ranting that the German civilians deserve to die, because they supported him and since he is going to die, they should die as well.”

  What a joke!

• 

  spokelooneh on December 20 at 8:37 p.m.

  Redneck Christmas. Photo essay. Provided without comment, as it speaks for itself.

  http://thefortuno.com/rednecks-christmas/

• 

  Phaedrus on December 20 at 8:39 p.m.

  How telling that LarrySpencer holds up one of the biggest political losers of all times as a politician to be admired. Bill Sali! Nice credibility there, LarrySpencer.

  ROTFLMAO!

• 

  spokelooneh on December 20 at 8:41 p.m.

  FYI:

  “Dave Laird on Sgt. Jim Faddis retires on December 20 at 3:52 a.m.

  For one and all…

  Roger_Young, like several others, has been outed as actually being Marshall Smith and his latest contribution to this thread has been deleted. I’m sorry this took this long, but his days of posting are very limited, indeed.

  Dave”

  http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/commcomm/2009/dec/13/sgt-jim-faddis-retires/

• 

  Me on December 20 at 8:56 p.m.

  Again it is portrayed as neener neener - your guy was worse than our guy - and I am sitting in the middle saying I WANT NONE OF THOSE!! We now completely settle for the least of the worst. And that we have not choice but two bad options.

  Our country is lost if this is what we are down to.

• 

  mike_s on December 20 at 9:08 p.m.

  Me, you need to step away from the ledge.

• 

  LarrySpencer on December 20 at 9:24 p.m.

  “First, if Idaho would drop medicaid, the individuals needing medical care would still get care in emergency rooms where payment does not need to be made at time of service.”

  Rightly or not, the arguement will get made that if the state stops medicaid, many on medicaid would leave the state. Also, most of the dollars spent on medicaid are not spent on things that would result in an ER visit.

  The state could spend their portion of the medicaid dollars on urgent care facilities and might come out ahead.

  not saying it is right or wrong, just saying it is what it is and we need to look at the options the state has for dealing with this mess from DC

• 

  mike_s on December 20 at 9:41 p.m.

  Larry Spencer’s health care discussion is more than pathetic. He needs to stick to a subject where he might actually hold some understanding.

  ( … never mind)

• 

  spokelooneh on December 20 at 10:07 p.m.

  HMO, let’s say there was a health care bill in play which you believed to be very good and necessary for the country to pass. Yet, it was perceived by the public in a negative fashion.

  Wouldn’t you still want that bill to pass?

  Frankly I think a GOOD health reform bill and the well-being and cost savings it would give to our citizenry is more important and more necessary than putting 40,000 more soldiers into Afghanistan.

• 

  hmoffsuite on December 21 at 5:29 a.m.

  Spoke >>”Wouldn’t you still want that bill to pass?”

  Not necessarily. ANY bill is not going to please everyone. There needs to be compromises made, on both sides. But, one of my biggest problems with the current bill is the process that is being used to draft it. This is perhaps the most important legislation that our Country has ever addressed. It needs to be as good as it can be. I would like to see Obama take the lead, for example, and make it clear that there would be NO pork or earmarks utilized in this one, this time. If he wishes to eliminate earmarks, like he said in his campaigning, now would be the time to do it. Zero tolerance for earmarks on this one. The bill should be clearly understood by all the parties and citizens and this back room crap should not be tolerated. So far, this health reform has been way too one sided, imo. And, we all know the reasons behind that.

• 

  hmoffsuite on December 21 at 6:11 a.m.

  Incidentally, it would appear that the Wall Street Journal shares some of my concerns …

  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704398304574598130440164954.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

• 

  mike_s on December 21 at 8:15 a.m.

  Wow Hmo, that has to be the most reckless editorial in the history of the WSJ!

  ;-)

• 

  Kendramama on December 21 at 8:25 a.m.

  First of all, Spokelooneh, that Redneck Christmas thing was freakin’ hilarious… and oh so apt.
  Second- after all, this IS the Wild Card, so excuse me if I divert from all the political folderal commented thus far- I just got done reading the Warrant Round-up in the Press (guilty pleasure, but hey, I DO subscribe to the Spokesman, too!) and the most bizarre listings I’ve ever seen was in it.
  Apparently, only criminals by the last name of Smith commit crimes these days in Kootenai County. I counted FIFTEEN of them, all wanted for various misdemeanors…. no other names, just Smiths. What’s really going on?

• 

  Kendramama on December 21 at 8:26 a.m.

  Oops, I meant WERE in it, not WAS in it. Bad, bad word usage on my part. And here I am an Education major. Sheesh.

• 

  mike_s on December 21 at 8:58 a.m.

  Incidentally, I am in full agreement with this editorial from the New York Sun:

  http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/

• 

  Phaedrus on December 21 at 8:59 a.m.

  from the wsj:

  “…a narrow majority of Democrats to stuff ObamaCare through the Senate…”

  60 -40 is a narrow majority?

• 

  spokelooneh on December 21 at 3:25 p.m.

  Well you just had to off on a tangent, and proclaim another falsehood, eh HMO?

  “If he wishes to eliminate earmarks, like he said in his campaigning, “ -HMO

  Near as I can tell, Obama NEVER said he favored eliminating earmarks. Reforming, yes.

  Please provide evidence that Obama said during the campaign that he was going to eliminate earmarks, otherwise, I’ll assume you’re promoting a falsehood, or confusing Obama’s position with McCain’s.

• 

  hmoffsuite on December 21 at 3:52 p.m.

  Spoke. You are correct. It wasn’t Obama that said he would get rid of all earmarks. It was McCain. Obama mentioned he wanted to reform them. He has. They are worse now. He did say ‘change’. Just not what kind of ‘change’.

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