Huckleberries Online

HBO comes through for Reporter

Posted by Cindy

Dec. 27, 2009 2:22 p.m. • 124 comments

Adam M. Johnson, 25, was arrested early Sunday, accused of shooting in downtown Coeur d’Alene that left one person in critical condition.

Information provided by Huckster bpoole was instrumental in helping Meghann Cuniff break the story of last night’s shooting in downtown Cda. Says Cuniff: “It was huge, huge help. I was able to find the suspect’s name on the page, then confirm through the jail that the guy is the same guy arrested downtown this morning.” Full comment.

Read her story here.

I find it interesting that a commenter at OpenCDA criticized a reporter for asking for and following up tips posted on this blog. Because, uh…that’s exactly what a reporter is supposed to do. You know– work sources, follow leads. Maybe some folks aren’t aware of the role social media plays in reporting the news.

124 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

IdahoDad on December 27 at 3:01 p.m.
It’s mind-boggling to me that this guy would throw away his life and his obviously bright future over a few words between strangers. So much for the Big Brother program.
Cindy_H on December 27 at 3:05 p.m.
The story IdahoDad refer to can be found here: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/dec/20/a-big-impact/
hmoffsuite on December 27 at 3:17 p.m.
Wow. How ironic. I read the ‘big brothers’ story at the time it was printed and now this.
Charlie on December 27 at 3:25 p.m.
The picture of stupidity! He is no longer 10 feet tall and bullet proof.
Bent on December 27 at 3:50 p.m.
Did you guys read the facebook page that bpoole turned Meghann on to? Google the guy’s name that bpoole provided. It looks like the guys from Moses Lake may started things and this johnson guy shot them in defense
spokelooneh on December 27 at 3:54 p.m.
Here’s Adam Johnson’s Blog:

http://adamjohnson.org/
spokelooneh on December 27 at 3:56 p.m.
Looks like he had founded and built up a great little telecom/IT/Web Design and hosting outfit.
Bent on December 27 at 4:04 p.m.
According to the facebool page, The guy in the story below is the guy the Moses Lake guys were picking on. According to the faceboo page, Johnson spoke up in Haitham Joudeh’s defense and was singled out later when the Moses Lake guys saw hom out on Sherman

http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=10154000
Cindy_H on December 27 at 4:09 p.m.
Story gets stranger by the minute.
bpoole on December 27 at 4:12 p.m.
Very odd!
Bent on December 27 at 4:21 p.m.
Man, I love the internet…good job on the tip poole..
Bent on December 27 at 4:32 p.m.
Man a more recent story with Joudeh in it… this is getting interesting…

http://faisalkutty.com/tag/haitham-joudeh/

This guys seems to be a lightning rod for racial incidents…
IdahoDad on December 27 at 4:33 p.m.
He was on the Board of Directors for the Post Falls Chamber of Commerce.

http://www.postfallschamber.com/board.aspx
Cindy_H on December 27 at 4:35 p.m.
You guys are better than Google!
IdahoDad on December 27 at 4:36 p.m.
What Facebook page are you guys looking at that has discussion about last night’s incident?
poolman on December 27 at 4:37 p.m.
This thread is better than CSI! I’m pretty sure the case will be solved before the end of the night…
spokelooneh on December 27 at 4:38 p.m.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?v=wall&ref=fs&id=668823024
Bent on December 27 at 4:39 p.m.
Holly Crap… I actually talked with Adam Johnson a couple of weeks ago with Keri Thoreson… and invited him into Google Wave … Wow, from what I can tell, this guy is no hot head, actually far from it
IdahoDad on December 27 at 4:43 p.m.
Okay, I see it now.

What’s up with these people whose Facebook pages are wide open to the world? It’s not that hard to lock it all down so your info is only viewable by approved friends.

If there were “ten or so” of Adam’s friends there who are all saying it was self-defense, then it sounds cut and dry to me.

Or maybe they were all drunk.
Cindy_H on December 27 at 4:47 p.m.
Gosh dang it! Do NOT tell me I’m going to have to join Facebook!
I feel so left out :-(
spokelooneh on December 27 at 4:49 p.m.
I would never in a million years think that one Jordanian, let alone at least two were hanging out in a CdA bar on a Sat. night. Even thought I knew stories about Haitham Joudeh, ‘course although this is stereotypical, Jordanians typically aren’t as devout as many other middle eastern Muslins.

“Shane Greenfield
Well the guys that he shot tried to start sh@t with my friends who are jordanian and then they realized there was ten or so of us. Well they were itching for a fight and went after adam because he spouted off to them. So from what I saw and understand, it was self defense because they beat the sh@t out of him and he shot in defense.”
Bent on December 27 at 4:49 p.m.
This will be an interesting case… I seriously doubt this Johnson guy pursued these guys to gun them down… more will definitely come out on this story…
hmoffsuite on December 27 at 4:50 p.m.
Cindy. I trust you will be able to live without it.
spokelooneh on December 27 at 4:52 p.m.
God, just strike that post, it’s so full of typos.

Muslims.
Bent on December 27 at 4:53 p.m.
Not for long HMO…
Bent on December 27 at 5:06 p.m.
Here is Adam Johnson’s facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/Convertec
spokelooneh on December 27 at 5:08 p.m.
No, I don’t think he went looking for trouble.

The question is whether he was “jumped”, assaulted, and then came back with deadly force for being in fear for his life, outnumbered, etc.

The way the story reads, he came across these guys, exchanged (probably “fighting words”), and then fired into a GROUP.
poolman on December 27 at 5:12 p.m.
In the Krem 2 interview with C. Wood she stated that this Adam guy was beat up by the crowd after the shooting occurred. I was under the impression that he was jumped and beat up - then fired in self defense, at least that is what the Facebook dialog suggests.
Bent on December 27 at 5:14 p.m.
Wow, I checked out his facebook friends and found at least six regular HBO commenters in his friends list… This will talk on here for awhile
spokelooneh on December 27 at 5:15 p.m.
The Facebook chatter doesn’t indicate anyone who actually witnessed the shooting, just the confrontation in the bar. And the S/R story also says Johnson got his wounds while being restrained by on-lookers.
spokelooneh on December 27 at 5:19 p.m.
Hmmm, a fan of Obama, Vaugn Ward, and Brannon.
bpoole on December 27 at 5:27 p.m.
He developed Mr.Brannon’s Campaign Website.
Bent on December 27 at 5:27 p.m.
New comment on Johnson’s page says the fight was 5 on 1. I am not sure if the commenter was there or not, but he seems to have details…
eagleeye on December 27 at 5:38 p.m.
I also saw a post that said Adam fired his gun after being attacked. It will be interesting to follow this story as it unravels.
Bent on December 27 at 5:51 p.m.
12 comments on Meghann’s story already: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/dec/27/2-men-shot-downtown-coeur-dalene/

One commenter claims to have been there and another seems to have details as well.
nic on December 27 at 6:07 p.m.
According to Pariah over on openCDA (perhaps the one commenter (in my opinion) who is consistently more negative than Mary) thinks it’s a “hoot” that an SR reporter had to solicit tips from this blog. I wonder if Pariah thinks it’s a hoot that the SR got this story before the CDAPress.

Kudos Meghann.
bpoole on December 27 at 6:24 p.m.
I wonder if guns are the problem?
http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=haitham+joudeh&init=quick#/haitham.joudeh?ref=search&sid=754675139.2985314308..1
bpoole on December 27 at 6:26 p.m.
quite a collection of assault weapons, and this guy needed protection.
Bent on December 27 at 6:47 p.m.
I don’t see the assult weapons connection bpoole??
Bent on December 27 at 6:48 p.m.
Does Joudeh have assault weapons??
zelda on December 27 at 6:49 p.m.
Cindy H. — Yeah, how long indeed can we live w/out Facebook?

It amazes me how quick people are to give their version of events and testify via Facebook. Don’t they know about lawyers, prosecutors, discovery, detectives and what the legal system (both sides of it) can do with all these witness accounts of what happened? Seems like people should just keep their mouths shut…but that’s just my old-fashioned advice.
eagleeye on December 27 at 6:57 p.m.
It would be interesting to have some HBO attorneys speak to the the issue of self defense. If Adam was confronted by a large group, threatened by them, and felt he had no way to avoid harm, he very may well have been justified in using force to protect himself.
bpoole on December 27 at 6:57 p.m.
the reason I put up the link is to show the “pictures” associated with the link.
Bent on December 27 at 7:03 p.m.
Hey Poole, his page is private and won’t let us see pictures other than the things he is a fan of…
coeurgenx on December 27 at 7:11 p.m.
Wow interesting stuff. I go to sandpoint for one night and then all this. I know Adam, im a Facebook friend with him and this DOES NOT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING HE WOULD DO… My guess is Adam was ambushed or felt the need to protect himself. But also sounds wierd was that the mom was out with the victims and witnessed it . BUT seriously, why carry a gun in CdA? not cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bent on December 27 at 7:14 p.m.
Coeurgenx, where did you get the mom stuff??
spokelooneh on December 27 at 7:20 p.m.
“

eagleeye on December 27 at 6:57 p.m.

It would be interesting to have some HBO attorneys speak to the the issue of self defense. If Adam was confronted by a large group, threatened by them, and felt he had no way to avoid harm, he very may well have been justified in using force to protect himself.”

No kidding, that’s what I said hours ago. And that there was too little information released (I should say available, and VERIFIED) to determine if it was justifiable self-defense. If what it seems some of his friends are claiming, it was SD. If it’s what the police are saying the witnesses they talked to said, it surely wasn’t SD.

And if he had any viable exit path to safety, he has to take that, and not shoot.

Not seeing any assault weapon stuff on Joudeh’s FB. I’ll look again.
AxE on December 27 at 7:33 p.m.
Glad to see all the Jr. Matlock’s stirring the pot. Go back to your Xmas coloring books till all the F A C T S are in.
coeurgenx on December 27 at 7:54 p.m.
Bent- on KREM 2 at 6pm tonight. Christy Wood said the whole family was out together and the mom witnessed it..
spokelooneh on December 27 at 7:58 p.m.
Aww, can it AxE, slow news day.

Found an FB posting touting Risch’s anti-health care reform speech, Mike Kennedy weighed in (opposition) as did Johnson (loved the speech).

I suspect the smarter people around here are clamming up right about now…

I do hope Johnson’s got a business continuity plan in place in his organization in the event something like this happens, even the short term absence from his business due to recovering from his wounds could be devastating to the firm, without an alternate plan. Especially important in a small company like that.
spokelooneh on December 27 at 8:03 p.m.
Saw two HBO commenters on Johnson’s Friend list, Keri Thorson (sp?) and Sam Taylor.
BitofBacon on December 27 at 8:21 p.m.
Axe, it’s funny that you would be telling people to wait until all the FACTS are in.
coeurgenx on December 27 at 8:32 p.m.
seriously this story is whaked…. i cannot believe this happened!
Bent on December 27 at 8:36 p.m.
I know, coeurgenx, it is strange. Did you see he comments on meghann’s story?

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/dec/27/2-men-shot-downtown-coeur-dalene/

There is one comment from a person who knows the Moses Lake boys, and the commenter doesn’t do them any favors in my book…
spokelooneh on December 27 at 9:09 p.m.
When copious amounts of alcohol are involved, unless you’ve been with that person before, seeing he/she under the influence, you really have no way of judging how he/she might react in high stress situations while drunk. Alcohol is gigantic wildcard.

I’ve seen people perfectly handle EXTREMELY stressful situations when sober, but when even mildly irritated when drunk, turned into complete arseholes and combative jerks.
Bent on December 27 at 9:12 p.m.
True Spoke… but I want know more about these Moses Lake boys and is true that Johnson was 86’d
spokelooneh on December 27 at 9:26 p.m.
Here is the victim Brandon Burgess’s Myspace page. No real info (age, pic), but then maybe if someone has a Myspace account it would show more.

http://www.myspace.com/nova_1964ss
Sam on December 27 at 9:29 p.m.
Yes, Spoke, regarding your comment, Adam and I were good childhood friends who hung out a lot and sort of moved apart toward middle school and high school when he dropped out to pursue other interests, including building his successful company.

I’m still friends with Adam but not close and we do chat on FB.

I don’t really have much to say about this. I’m pretty shocked and clearly there is a bunch we don’t seem to know about this. I was actually in Cd’A this morning (we got back home earlier tonight) and my parents and wife were mentioning that Meghann had gotten a tip of FB about an attempted murder. I didn’t bother going to the comp to check it out at the time … and it turns out I know at least one person involved.

That’s about all I’m going to say here. I have absolutely no details and I hope Adam is alright as well as the other guys involved. I assume Cd’a law enforcement will ensure that all facts are considered as they go forward with this.
Phaedrus on December 27 at 9:33 p.m.
Tragic story with life and death implications and the resident arseholes on Opencda, Dan Gookin and Bill McCrory, are critiquing the grammar usage in the CdA Police Department press release. Dan, classy way for a wanna be Councilman to behave. If someone dies are the two of you going to criticize the obituary?
kellen1983 on December 27 at 10:12 p.m.
hey whoever spokelooneh is I don’t get how you think it is OK to post a link to my face book! Not only is that just not cool but you put me in the middle of all of this as if i had something to do with it! please remove you’re little link to my page!!!!
spokelooneh on December 27 at 10:18 p.m.
“kellen1983 on December 27 at 10:12 p.m.

hey whoever spokelooneh is I don’t get how you think it is OK to post a link to my face book! Not only is that just not cool but you put me in the middle of all of this as if i had something to do with it! please remove you’re little link to my page!!!!”

/points, laughs.

You’ve already scrubbed it. Suggest you take a tutorial on FB security so as not to have this happen again.
mmm-k???!!!
kellen1983 on December 27 at 10:23 p.m.
get a life you guys! sending people to my facebook page because i asked a person what happened last night is super inappropriate! Does nobody have anything exciting to talk about in their own life’s?
spokelooneh on December 27 at 10:25 p.m.
And you may not want to have done that, scrubbed it, kellen, as it may very well be material of interest in an attempted murder investigation.

Party on, dude.

Oh, lookie there, I still have the original page open in another tab. Saving to disk, copying…
spokelooneh on December 27 at 10:34 p.m.
“super inappropriate”?

No, this is super inappropriate:

“Nick Gant
It’s not like he just decided to randomly shoot them lol
6 hours ago”

Nice…
kellen1983 on December 27 at 10:37 p.m.
Hope you’re having fun! Sounds to me that you are. Are you married? Have any children? What do they think of you’re awkward facebook searches?
kellen1983 on December 27 at 10:42 p.m.
Or maybe you’re just a lonely man seeking attention from this highly sophisticated newspaper blog! Either way good luck to you sir and I truly fell bad for you!
zelda on December 27 at 11:13 p.m.
If you want to pick on somebody, blame Google and Facebook, not spokelooneh.

Whatever you post on social media, it’s out there, it’s gone, it has left your hands. You can’t take it back. Cruel world. Search warrants and subpoenas can find your words. Privacy has all but vanished. Even we unsophisticated sorts on HBO know this.
spokelooneh on December 27 at 11:13 p.m.
Well Kellen, I didn’t discover the connection, someone else here did, I just reposted it when someone asked about it.

A Google search of “Facebook security issues” yields 84M hits. The issue has been all over the series of tubes and in the mainstream news many times.

FB put the issue right on your wall a couple of weeks ago, forcing you do deal with it. You obviously chose to ignore it, or have been under a rock or something.

It’s your fault your friends’ comments were in the public domain, including the claim of eyewitness account by Shane Greenfield of what lead up to a terrible violent tragedy.

Either man up, or pipe down.
spokelooneh on December 27 at 11:21 p.m.
Actually your bud Nick Gant should have known better, as he claims to have a degree in Information Systems Security. Oh, it’s from ITT Tech, never mind.
IdahoDad on December 27 at 11:22 p.m.
Kellen, when you create a Facebook page and DO NOT click the little button hiding it from all but your approved friends, then it’s legally available for the entire world to see. YOU made it so everyone can see it. All you have to do is change your settings to “Friends Only” and all will be well with the world again. But YOU have to change the settings. It’s not that hard.
IdahoDad on December 27 at 11:25 p.m.
He figured it out! There’s hope for the younger generation.
Bent on December 27 at 11:47 p.m.
Wow, just, Wow… this is hard stuff… latest comment on Meghann’s story: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/dec/27/2-men-shot-downtown-coeur-dalene/

“As A Business owner and father of the one who is in Seattle I would ask why is a business owner carrying a gun in a bar this is not legal unless you in Idaho have different laws than Washington. I also carry a weapon that I use for so called self defense…”
spokelooneh on December 28 at 12:13 a.m.
Well I wouldn’t be surprised if Idaho law differed from WA on the issue of concealed carry in bars. Not really all that germane since the incident happened on the street.
JIMMYMAC on December 28 at 12:55 a.m.
KREM and KXLY stories have some pretty stirring comments too. Sad all around-I pray for all involved as well as their families. Makes you think twice about just letting stuff go at the bar.
marmitetoasty on December 28 at 1:26 a.m.
Im not judging or taking sides, cos I think its an impossible task for the likes of me to understand cos of your gun laws…..

but my observations upon reading this thread and various links is this…….

4 blokes against this one bloke, beating him up people say…… so….. why the hell didnt those that witnessed this lad getting the sh*t beat out of him by 4 blokes step in and stop it….. that, I dont understand…… how can anyone stand back and witnesses 4 against 1… and just maybe if this was stopped at that point, then what followed would not of happened..

I know you have self defence laws over there and your allowed to carry guns, but it seems to me if you take a gun out then the chances are in a drunken brawl the temptation to use it is there….

It is illegal here to even carry a tiny penknife out in public….

My man/boys go into Portsmouth town most weekends to clubs and pubs and yes there are copious amounts of booze drunk, and with booze comes the lack of clear thinking, and often as not one or other of my lads is caught up in some dispute, fights wtih other groups of lads and even the bouncers on the doors of the nightspots get stuck in……its amazing how drink can impair ones judgement…..

My son a couple of years back got his jaw badly broken in two places whilst completely sober and just walking through town with a couple of his friends, they were jumped on by a group of 8 drunks……. my son and his 2 mates jumped by 8 others, blood was shed and jaws broken and ribs and a fractured skull all sustained by my son and his 2 friends…….. my lad had emergency surgery and has a plate in his jaw and was wired shut for 7 weeks…. the lad with the fractured skull was in hospital for weeks..

2 of the blokes involved got 9 months and 18 months in prison for the unproked attack.. the others got lesser sentences..

But, never once did they think that someone would pull out a gun, yes it does happen in Britain, I aint saying it dont, and knife crime is also rife, but those that go out carrying a weapon here knowing it is illegal, usually means they are out to cause harm….

Never when my lads go out into town, and I know they do drink and get drunk, believe me Ive picked them up from the police station in town numerous times for mouthing off a copper or getting into scraps, but never have I ever worried that they would get shot …….. never..

My third son was arrested last year when he was in his maties car with 3 other friends, they were stopped cos their back brake light was not working, and cos they were young lads the coppers search the car, they were only up the road a little ways, on their way up one of the lads private woods, his fathers property, but my lad was arrested cos in the car he had a bloody BB Gun, it was a gas pressure fired one, but it was not allowed to be out in an unlocked case, even though he had a destination of where the gun was going, and it was NOT going to be used on public land….. you have to have a good reason for taking a BB gun out, one is not allowed to just drive with one in their car……

The coppers realised it was an innocent mistake, but it was cos it was a gas powered one…….. but even if it had been just a normal BB gun, it would not of been allowed to be taken out of the house or the boundaries of my garden without having a viable reason for doing so….. anyways, the gun was taken and destroyed which well P*ssed off my second son cos it was his and not me 3rd sons LOL….. and our Sam was let off with a caution and a stiff warning…..

Anyways, I will say that non of my lads or their mates would stand back and watch anyone a friend or not, get jumped on by a group of 4 upon 1, so those that witnessed that should be ashamed of themselves for standing proud of that comment…

I might be out of order on this thread, cos I dont understand your laws on guns etc….. but, I just wanted to put me tuppence worth in :)

x
spokelooneh on December 28 at 1:28 a.m.
“Makes you think twice about just letting stuff go at the bar.”

-Jimmymac

Jimmymac, you seem like a pretty smart guy. Did you not realize, say just a year or two after drinking in bars, that if you DON’T just let most things go at the bar, it’ll escalate into completely senseless violence? I’m thinking you did realize that.

Alcohol macho-ism is just plain stupid. And dangerous.
IdahoDad on December 28 at 2:06 a.m.
This whole thing makes me glad I don’t drink. I’ve been inside a bar maybe twice in my whole life.

The appeal of this kind of nighttime fun is completely lost on me.
MamaJD on December 28 at 6:44 a.m.
This case is so unusual from the standpoint of how it is playing out in comments sections and wall postings between blogs and Facebook. I feel sorry for the investigators (especially if they are not internet savvy) because there seems to be a lot of witnesses detailing events from first hand or second hand accounts. There’s a witness engaging a victim’s father on another thread (see Meghann’s story) within the comments section. Most of the commenters are using aliases while commenting. It just seems like a nightmare for an investigator.
Aisling on December 28 at 7:08 a.m.
The shooter contributed to the community and is far from being considered a redneck, but a young professional who volunteered and happened to carry a concealed weapon for self defense. When two punks from out of town, and their friends, jump him and beat his face in, does he not have the right to defend himself? Or should we all expect people to take beatings from others? Put yourself in that position, being attacked and harassed by some intoxicated jerks (their myspace and facebook profiles confirm this theory) looking for a fight, what would you do? Maybe circumstances like this will make people think about potential consequences before running their mouths and pushing people around? The shooter was interested in marksmanship, as you can see in his Facebook photos (mobile uploads) and I am certain if he wanted to kill the men, he could have effectively done so.

I’ve known Adam since elementary school, and I know he is a very patient and kind person. He is usually not bothered by drama with others, and stays uninvolved, therefore I don’t think he had a choice but to defend himself - especially when hearing from several friends who witnessed the behavior of the “victims” they were causing problems all night.

I’m sure when Adam was confronted by a group of intoxicated men looking for a fight late at night, knowing how a pack of drunk men can behave, this was his only means of protecting himself. How will the others be charged? Will they receive assault charges for starting the fight? They were asking for it. If I were approached by a pack of drunks at night looking for a fight, I would wish I had a gun on me as well. The world could use fewer jerks like Burgess and Phillips - and in the future I’d bet that they won’t be so ready to fight.
JIMMYMAC on December 28 at 8:15 a.m.
Spoke,
Absolutely, I do realize that. I should have framed my post differently. I can probably count on one hand how many times a year I’m caught out at the bars downtown after 9 pm anymore. I just know that on any given night at any given crowded bar, there is going to be “someone looking at someone wrong”, someone spilling someone else’s drinks, someone grabbing the wrong drink, etc. I’m hopeful that this incident resonates with people and they will just let these trivial things go rather than escalate these types of situations. I can say I was more than naive at 21 or 22 about this type of thing happening in CDA but it most definitely could have in hindsight.
OrangeTV on December 28 at 9:46 a.m.
Certainly these guys should have taken advantage of Facebook’s privacy settings, but to me, picking on them because they didn’t is no better than the OpenCDA creeps picking on Christie for a couple of grammar errors.

Yes, these pages were freely accessible via Google, but was it really necessary to post direct links to them here on a newspaper blog? It’s not about privacy issues or freedom issues to me, it’s about respect. One of Kellen’s friends is involved in a horrid tragedy and he didn’t really need the additional stress of realizing his FB page had been linked to on a public forum. Yes, I realize this is is own fault, but I doubt his privacy setting were intentionally set as public. Some people just might not realize, but that doesn’t mean you can treat them like an idiot.

Out of respect to the nature of the situation at hand, I’d have sent private emails to Meghann with the fb links instead. It just seems very tabloid-y to me, and I don’t blame Kellen for being upset. And I agree with him also on the point that several of you ought to focus a bit more on issues in your own life, and not obsess so deeply about the minutiae of a situation you weren’t remotely involved in, and can only speculate about until the facts emerge.

When they do, I have a feeling Mr. Johnson will be fully vindicated.
Kage_Mann on December 28 at 10:03 a.m.
If you wanna get stupid, go out and drink yourself silly, while carrying a gun in the wee hours of the morning. Drinking alcohol
changes a person’s demeanor etc. He may have been a good person who didn’t start anything, but the KC prosecutors will make him pay.
Joker on December 28 at 10:12 a.m.
So much for peace on Earth and Goodwill toward men.
361degrees on December 28 at 10:24 a.m.
Kage_Mann -

Who said he was intoxicated? I have not read any reports that mention Mr. Johnson Blood Alcohol Level. Yes the newspaper could have mentioned he was intoxicated and I missed it but they were also the ones who made Mr. Johnson sound like a crazed loon who fired a gun into a bunch of innocent bi-standards. Either way I am starting to think that he was not intoxicated because you know if he was ol’ CDA blue would be all over that to cover their butts.

And what is with Christie Wood’s press releases? Is it just me or did she immediately takes sides in this investigation?
Phaedrus on December 28 at 10:26 a.m.
bi-standards.

There are standards for being Bi? Who knew!
Cabbage Boy on December 28 at 10:39 a.m.
Amen Joker. What a horrid set of events. Hope everyone recovers fully.

That said, what a bunch of maroons society has become. Spouting off about the whole mess on some blog or facebook page. Wanting to be the story.

Sad, really.
poolman on December 28 at 10:58 a.m.
@361Degrees - I think you bring up a valid point re: Christie Wood’s interaction with the local media. From what I can tell there are two stories being reported. One is that this guy started shooting into a crowd and was subsequently beaten up by the people who “restrained” him. This is essentially in line with the CPD reports. The other is that he was in the process of being pummeled by four or five men and then shot in a defensive manner. In either event - it does seem a little strange that the CPD would issue a release that is fairly damaging to the guy in question before a thorough investigation was completed. Rule number one of Media Crisis Communications – don’t speculate to the media.
Cabbage Boy on December 28 at 11:12 a.m.
Phaedrus, bi-standards is fitting for this hack job of the new media. Grammatical errors seem to be the norm for the commenters on this whole story.
361degrees on December 28 at 11:17 a.m.
Phaedrus -

Sorry about the mistake
ejs on December 28 at 11:29 a.m.
Poolman is correct and I don’t understand the report to the degree of what exactly happened. While Sergeant Cupcake <he he=”” he=”“> is a fine and upstanding woman and indeed a likable person, I’ve only met her once and she seems nice. On the other hand there are plenty of nice people who do not do their jobs well. I expect we all have fallen into that catagory at some time in our working careers.
Bent on December 28 at 11:44 a.m.
I agree poolman, but I wonder if the cops intentionally put misinformation out there to elicit some response from eyewitnesses.

The guy who calls himself JIT oin the coments section of Meghann’s original story — http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/dec/27/2-men-shot-downtown-coeur-dalene/ see the 11:54 post — says he was the one and only guy to restrain Adam Johnson. This guy claims to have witnessed the shooting first hand, and says Johnson was beaten severely before the shot were fired …

I find it hard to believe that cops didn’t interveiw this guy who held Johnson down until they arrived… why was his side not reflected?
Sisyphus on December 28 at 11:52 a.m.
Fascinating.
Sermo on December 28 at 12:00 p.m.
A lot of people on this site are saying how stupid it was for Mr. Johnson to be carrying a gun downtown. Carrying a concealed weapon is an opportunity we have as Americans and it is perfectly legal if you have the proper license. As for the self- defense aspect, Idaho law states:

“a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself.”

Considering that a downtown fight a few years ago resulted in a young man in a coma with severe brain damage; a fist fight between two men could result in “great bodily injury”. And if some of these reports were correct and Mr. Johnson was out numbered, than he could have “reasonably” believed that his life or great bodily injury were at risk. It all depends on the evidence and what information witnesses bring fourth. It also depends on if Mr. Johnson was intoxicated. Idaho law also states “A concealed weapon, even with a permit, cannot be carried while one is intoxicated”. If Mr. Johnson was intoxicated this information would have most likely surfaced already because as 361degrees and poolman mentioned, CPD has already started to take sides.
spokelooneh on December 28 at 12:26 p.m.
“Sisyphus on December 28 at 11:52 a.m.

Fascinating.”

Ain’t it?

And quite the tragedy.

And we all know how eye witness accounts can vary 180 degrees, not that I believe there are any eye witness accounts posted here.

And the eye witnesses, whoever they are, were likely inebriated. Yet such witnesses’ accounts taken in the immediate aftermath of the melee would generally be the most reliable.
eagleeye on December 28 at 12:31 p.m.
Seriously Orange, you are defending these guys that are whining about having their information linked to when it is out there for everyone in the world to see? Please. Its total fair game. And since when are blogs not tabloidy ? I agree with you on alot of points but you are way off base with this.
poolman on December 28 at 12:35 p.m.
Bent - Yes that post by JIT is chilling - I read it several times to see if I my BS alarm would go off and it didn’t, he sounded genuine to me. Meanwhile, most of the posts I’ve read from people supporting the side of the kid’s sound emotionally charged, vague and defensive.
spokelooneh on December 28 at 12:48 p.m.
Forensics or is that ballistics? could also shed some light on the claim made that Johnson was on the ground (having been beaten down) when he fired his weapon.

Don’t think it’s known (publicly) how many rounds were fired.

Oh, and any claim made that Johnson was an expert marksman who shot to wound his attackers is ridiculous. Seems to me if someone’s getting beat to a bloody pulp and is in fear for their life is going to take deadly aim, period. How well that works with alcohol goggles on, who knows.
OrangeTV on December 28 at 12:53 p.m.
Eagleeye, I fully understand your point about the accessibility of non-protected info on the web and agree fully that they were foolish not to have set their profiles as private and then freak out when it comes back to haunt them.

What I’m saying is that I would have handled the transfer of the info about what was posted on Kellen’s page and the link to it in a private email directly to the news reporter rather than post his name here and drag him headlong into a situation that he isn’t really involved with and is probably rather upset about in the first place.

I’m sure bpoole was just trying to be helpful and meant no ill will, but I’m just saying that’s how I’d have done it and can understand why Kellen might be a little perturbed at having his full name pop up on HBO in that context. Then others pipe in to tell him what an arse he was for having his fb page wide open in a manner that seemed quite condescending, like a nice scolding from dad.

Like someone else wrote, I have a feeling anyone aware of this situation will be re-checking their facebook privacy settings and that’s probably a good idea anyway. It’ll be very interesting to see if/how all this facebook/web madness plays a role in the case, for sure.
eagleeye on December 28 at 12:59 p.m.
Orange,
I see where you are coming from. And as far as a scolding from Dad, I remember a line my dad always used on me. ” Son, there’s always a price to pay for being stupid!”.
Sisyphus on December 28 at 1:04 p.m.
Agreed on the forensics Spoke. “Seems to me if someone’s getting beat to a bloody pulp and is in fear for their life is going to take deadly aim, period.”—I dunno about this, though. I’m thinking he’s gonna just be happy to get the trigger pulled to stop the beating. If that’s what happened.

Orange, you refine that point quite well.
Sermo on December 28 at 1:10 p.m.
So has it been proven that Mr. Johnson was intoxicated or is it just speculation? I have read all of the news articles and blogs and have not seen any information supporting that he was. And lets say that he was intoxicated, does that immediately mean that he cannot protect himself in case of an attack? Hypothetical situation: Mr. Johnson was attacked and was being assaulted by these guys. He is on the ground being attacked and pulls his hand gun in self defense. If he is intoxicated what legal issues would be involved? I am not a lawyer but sounds like a Contributory or Comparative Negligence issue.
Bent on December 28 at 1:12 p.m.
OTV the first thing I did after seeing those open pages was lock my security down tighter… I wouldn’t want this kind of scrutiny either, and I sympothize with this Kellen guy, who really had nothing to do with this incident other than opening up a portal into the lives of the people who do know what happened that night. This is a clumsy new medium, but a powerful one… I for one am very intrigued by all of this stuff..
poolman on December 28 at 1:29 p.m.
Forensics - investigation - evidence - key witnesses - what is all of this nonsense. He was apprehended and beaten down by a crowd of courageous twenty something year old bar hoppers home from college on Christmas break, period.

I’m trying to get the scenario where he is jumped and beat up after shooting multiple shots into a crowd to play out in my head. Did he run out of ammo? Bang bang bang click….click. ~He’s finally out of ammo let’s get him~…then the mob attacks with a vengeance? That sounds highly unlikely – in real life people run AWAY from people shooting guns into crowds - not toward them - just saying…
letthefactsspeak on December 28 at 1:32 p.m.
I was not there to whitness this tragic situation, however I am aquaintances with friends of both parties. I have been reading all of the blogging tagged to every article relating to this story. I can see how passionate everyone can be regarding situations such as this.

I actually took college courses with officer Woods and I can say that she is a proffessional and compassionate person as well as an officer of the law. Nobody should judge that of a person who is in charge of public relations for such a traumatic event that unfolded so quickly over a holliday weekend. Officer Woods was simply doing her job and was forced to make a statement to local media.

My only comment on this situation is a theory based upon personal experience with the bar scene and physical altercations similar to this. Personally speaking, I would not have the courage to go after a guy holding a gun who just squeezed off 5 rounds. I think I would try to run for cover. That is just me, but I believe most would do the same. Because of my personal feeling on this, I tend to at this point in time lean on the side that Mr. Johnson may indeed have been being beaten by one or more persons before he fired his weapon. I still feel that the shooting wasnt justified as if time would have played out the beating probably would have been stoppedby bystanders if in deed it played out in that mannor.

My opinion is just that. None of us, other than those who were there truly know what happened. We are all entitled to our theorys, however we should keep them as such and not make attacking statements on this blog toward law enforcement or either side of the situation.
idawa on December 28 at 1:52 p.m.
what is fascinating, beyond the the facts of this case, is watching the battle in the court of public opinion happen in real time with parties on both sides trying to control the meme …

it also has made me think about the possible implications for a jury pool in a town so small and with social networking increasing everyone connections exponentially – I wonder if we should alway ask of a potential jury member during voir dire if they are connected in a way to any party in a case via any type of social networking (blog, facebook, linkedin, myspace, etc) or if they know of or have seen anything about the parties in any form of social networking …
Cabbage Boy on December 28 at 1:57 p.m.
Poolman and facts,
That was my first blush thought to the “taken down by bi-standards” line.

The liquid courage musta been flowing freely that night because I can’t imagine people having the courage to grab a armed guy and then the audacity to beat him to a pulp.
Sisyphus on December 28 at 2:01 p.m.
Very true idawa. Jury contamination is by far the biggest issue raised by all this chatter. And that’s a pretty good voir dire question. One would be remiss in failing to address it.
Cindy_H on December 28 at 2:01 p.m.
Agree idawa.
All the more reason for Hucksters to stay glued to HBO. I do believe it will eliminate us from the jury pool.
Course then there are those who’ve been longing for a chance to sit in a jury box.
poolman on December 28 at 2:55 p.m.
<watching the=”” battle=”” in=”” the=”” court=”” of=”” public=”” opinion=”“> idawa

To me this is a classic Occam’s razor scenario. When two hypotheses (or theory’s) are equal in other respects, the principle (Occam’s razor) recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question. i.e. the theory that requires less “remarkable” circumstances is nearly always the correct theory. A guy getting beat up my a bunch of drunk rowdies from out of town and then firing on them in self defense is a much less “remarkable” theory than an upstanding citizen randomly shooting into a crowd and then being overtaken by a bunch of drunk college students and beaten to a pulp.
spokelooneh on December 28 at 3:04 p.m.
Well the Mess seems to have some additional details I’ve not seen mentioned or reported here. Name witness claims Johnson through the gun away after firing off 5 rounds.

That would seem to answer the challenge as to why by-standers who also saw this were not fleeing from a guy with a gun.

http://www.cdapress.com/articles/2009/12/28/news/news01.txt

OTOH, the witness is apparently a friend of one of the victims, so….

And if Johnson tossed the gun onto the roof of Tito Macaroni’s you’d think that would be something the police would have denied or confirmed.

The witness also said Johnson was thrown through a window at Tito Macaroni’s. Anybody notice if that window was broken or boarded up, or notice it getting replaced?
Sisyphus on December 28 at 3:10 p.m.
Clear as mud.
hmoffsuite on December 28 at 3:31 p.m.
Sis. >> “Clear as mud”

Exactly. Its all noise. And, meaningless other than providing a chance for everybody to test out their Law and Order skills. It’s all speculation and hearsay at this point. When any of these folks raise their right hand and swear, then it will become of value. Jmho, of course. .
Sisyphus on December 28 at 3:40 p.m.
I love a good mystery hmoff. We can’t help our curiosity. I have the luxury of being unassociated with any of the actors giving me a certain detachment to the emotions swirling around the event. But as far as conclusions go, I’d have to say there’s a certain amount of credence to the notion that there’s a lot more to this story than being reported and that the information being reported has some holes and inconsistencies.
Joker on December 28 at 3:44 p.m.
Are reporters even necessary? This story proves we have lots of little news gatherers out there in cyberspace and they work for FREE.

Sure they have unconventional names and they mix in their opinion with what happened, but news is a conversation (shameless stolen from the departed Steve Smith). The Spokesman-Review should terminate every single reporter and let the bloggers tell us what’s going on the world.

Reporters, like the VCR, are no longer useful or necessary.
hmoffsuite on December 28 at 3:55 p.m.
Joker >>”Reporters, like the VCR, are no longer useful or necessary.”

That would kinda settle any bias concerns. :~)
spokelooneh on December 28 at 3:55 p.m.
As I stated before, even completely credible eye-witnesses with no axe to grind whatsover, standing side-by-side witnessing the event can give vastly different testimony.

I’m guessing the CdA detective squad has been quite busy over the past 24-36 hours taking statements, damn well should be.
PatrickH on December 28 at 4:50 p.m.
So this may be a stupid question, but why do we care if he was/is on the Post Falls Chamber’s board, or that Kerri Thorsen is on his Facebook as a friend?
Cindy_H on December 28 at 5:35 p.m.
Purient interest?
Insatiable curiousity?
The need to know crap about people we kinda know?
The need to know crap about people we don’t know and don’t want to know?
Research for a novel?
Gotta know who to unfriend or friend?
Helping the police solve the crime?
Nothing good on the eleventy billion sattelite TV channels?
Meghann needs us?

There ya go, Patrick. Remember here at HBO there are NO stupid questions…the answers…well…
spokelooneh on December 28 at 6:26 p.m.
Nice retort, Cindy.
letthefactsspeak on December 29 at 5:16 p.m.
All I am going to say is that one of Adams friends came up to him right before the police showed up as he was being restrained after the beating that occured after he fired atleast his first shot and Adams response was simply “I felt threatened for my life”. This came directly from his freinds mouth who was with him at the Underground.

I would think, as well as a logical rational person should that Adam would have said, “they were beating me, I thought they were going to kill me”.

The fact is, his training kicked in after the fact and he knew that he was in some major trouble so he immediately drew upon what he learned in weapons training which is - the use of lethal force if your person is in danger or lethal harm or life threatening injuries. This includes the intent, opportunity and capability to kill. This also is what the police are basing there reccomendation to charge Adam with. Trust me. When this goes to trial, the fact that Adam repeadedly asked law enforcement what the protocal to use deadly force is will be a key issue in the prosecution. His fire arms instructor will be a key whitness. Adam, in trying to save his behind actually sealed his fate by making these statements.

I dont care how many of the Moses Lake guys were there. None of them presented the capability or intent to do serious bodily or lethal harm to Adam. The opportunity yes was there, simply by them being on the same corner. One of the three (opportunity, capability, intent) does not constitute the use of deadly force as self defense and in the court of Law (not Adams friends public opinion) it takes all 3. He will be convicted and he will be spending a long amount of time in the Boise State Hilton thinking about the other 2 missing ingredients that lead to his actions.
Sermo on December 30 at 11:37 a.m.
@letthefactsspeak

How can you say that no matter how many Moses Lake guys were there, none of them presented the capability or intent to do serious bodily harm? All it takes to do serious brain damage is one punch to the right part of the head. Do you not realize that thousands of people a year are permanently brain dead from fist fights and four men fighting one could end up deadly? The human body is not invincible and a few kicks to a fallen man’s head can easily lead to death.

You also have no idea what their intent was because you were not inside their heads. If they were severely intoxicated they could have not known when to stop and continued the beating.

So they most definitely had the opportunity and the capability. As for intent both you and I have no idea.
letthefactsspeak on December 30 at 3:53 p.m.
Sermo - In order for the use of deadly force to be a justifiable means of self defense all three factors must come into play. According to the police report Adam fired his weapon atleast one time before any “punches” or (intent) was displayed. Trust me on this one. Adam is going to get convicted of this unless he pleads guilty to attempted manslaughter or something else.

Yes you could consider “capability” as them being present with their first, however legally that is not enough justification to use deadly force.

I have heard through numerous sources Adam loved flashing his gun around and bragged about it. If you look at the situation leading up to the main event ie; the run in at the Underground and Adam being upset about it conveying his anger to friends and his girlfriend, I truly believe as the police report indicates he fired his first round, attempted to put the weapon away and that is when his “beating” or in this case self defense of the Moses Lake guys begun.

I probably know a little more about the story than most as I have friends who were there and know poeple who are on both sides of the story. I awaited to pass my personal judgement until all the peices of the puzzle were available to me. Im not 100%, however I am over 90% certain I know what happened. Luckily for Adam, the jury has to be 100% certain, which after the prosecution shows all there cards, I have little doubt that the jury will be %100 convinced.
eagleeye on December 30 at 4:09 p.m.
Wow,
Adam has been tried and convicted by the Internet Prosecutor. If the public defender is any good at all there will be plenty of doubts created. I would say a conviction is 50/50. The Internet Prosecutor bases alot of his “facts” on heresay.
HNoyes on January 04 at 9:59 p.m.
eagleeye: Agreed.

The way people take the net and take it’s offer of anonymity… sugoi.

I was born in Moses Lake.. but I don’t remember the place. It’s been over 30 years since I’ve been there. All my family moved away, from what I’m told. But they had long term ties there until about 10 years ago. I don’t know what the state of the place is now. But I was in southern ID less than three years ago, and from what I saw there, I’m really surprised you people are acting shocked at the look on the shooter’s face.

Those bruises look like he struggled pretty good. I can’t say for sure, I wasn’t there. To be a pillar of the community and have this problem. Makes life rather difficult. Sorry you lost your cool there, Sir. I hope you learn from the mistake.

To the families of the gunshot victims: I’m sorry your kids are hurt. As a mother, I know the feeling of fear for your child in a scary situation. I hope things go better. And I hope everyone survives to learn their lessons from this incident.

H.

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D.F. Oliveria is a columnist and blogger for The Spokesman-Review. Huckleberries Online was judged the best 2008 Idaho newspaper blog by the Idaho Press Club. And the best 2007 news blog in the Pacific Northwest by the Society for Professional Journalist. Print Huckleberries is a past winner of the Herb Caen Memorial Column contest by the National Association of Newspaper Columnists. The Readership Institute of Northwestern University cited this blog as a good example of online community journalism.