Richert: Grab For Fair Porkulus Share

35 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

• 

  Cabbage Boy on February 06 at 9:58 a.m.

  No!

  This has been my main issue with politics in general. Everyone is against wasteful spending, UNLESS it is spent on them.

  Somewhere, someone has to say no. Back in North Dakota, one of the reps used to brag about bringing back $1.70 for every $1 sent to Washington. I just couldn’t imagine how anyone saw that as good. It was not as if the other states didn’t get their share, so for every $1 spent, ND was going 70 cents in debt. Nevermind all the fat cats that had their hands in the pie along the way that probably was about $2 in debt for every $1 spent.

  Just say no. Someone has to!

• 

  Sisyphus on February 06 at 10:22 a.m.

  Oh absolutely, Cabbage, lets hold hard and fast to the policies that got us here. Let’s embrace tax cuts only since they’ve done such masterful job so far. Let’s make sure that everybody tightens their belts at once and see how the economy functions. Let’s risk a deflationary economy, which is extremely difficult to emerge from, by delaying and nitpicking $100 million here and there.

  Just say no. Frickin’ ridiculous. This is just a bunch of pompous gasbags whose steadfast idealism has brought them to the brink of ruin trying to save what’s left of their ideological dignity while the answers to their fiscal problems are staring them right in the face. Let ‘em swim against the tide. Their political carcasses should wash up in another cycle.

• 

  Sisyphus on February 06 at 10:23 a.m.

  And Richert needs to stop flattering me. ;-)

• 

  Bob on February 06 at 10:28 a.m.

  More tax cuts! LOL.

• 

  Cabbage Boy on February 06 at 10:41 a.m.

  Sis, point out where I said that we should “hold hard and fast to the policies that got us here.”

  It is exactly that which I am against. Unlike some here, I know you have the intelligence to get beyond partisanship. Bush spent and grew the government many times more than Clinton did. I don’t care what the money is being spent on,

  we don’t have the money. (emphasis with the lack of bold text)

  This concept is my own, not that of some talk show host whom I don’t listen to. Deflationary economy??? That is what happens when you spend what you don’t have. Sure, print more. That has worked so well, might as well keep up with the old policy.

  If Obama was promoting change, I would love it. But Bush tried to spend us out of the recession and that didn’t work. So Obama’s triple pork burger is going to magically work? When the number show it will cost at best $200,000 per job created? For entry level jobs, how is that a good return.

• 

  GaryIngram on February 06 at 10:56 a.m.

  To hell with the burden on my grandchildren. Start the presses. Print more money, now!

• 

  Sisyphus on February 06 at 10:57 a.m.

  Uh please show me any economists who aren’t in favor of this stimulus package. Make sure they aren’t supporters of Bush’s policies i.e. tax cuts for the wealthy slashing domestic spending. Really no one is suggesting belt tightening right now. Unless you go to House leadership in Idaho.

• 

  Cabbage Boy on February 06 at 11:02 a.m.

  Economists are probably feeling the pinch. Word is that times are so hard, some actually saw an economist looking for a job.

  Find me an economist that actually understands the issue rather than just speculating with big terms on TV, then we can talk about “in favor” or not. I really don’t care what the pompous gasbags are saying. The bottom line is this,

  Spending money we don’t have got us in this mess.

  Obama is just slapping some more mayo and cheese on a big fat W pork sandwich.

• 

  Bob on February 06 at 11:14 a.m.

  Econmists R dum! Let teh unreglated bank indstry and frea markts fix this! No to govrments money takng from me.

  Since we’re using irrelevant comestible-themed metaphors - you don’t stop eating crap if your mouth is always on a banker’s butt.

  Let Obama be Obama. He’ll fix this if the GOP just follows or stays out of the way.

  I think most of us understand that, support him, and want America to be saved.

• 

  hmoffsuite on February 06 at 11:19 a.m.

  Sis >>”Uh please show me any economists who aren’t in favor of this stimulus package”

  There are many. Particularly those that were hoping this package would be for the purpose of stimulus and assist in bringing some strength to our economy. Obama has pushed this package so hard, it will likely survive close to its current form. One would think that if we were going to spend this kind of money, he would listen to the cautions being offered. This is a Pelosi, Reid bill and designed to provide funding to their pet causes. It, in reality, is horrible. For America, that is.

• 

  hmoffsuite on February 06 at 11:29 a.m.

  My last word on this one. Obama is President, he has a congress that will support him and their bill will be passed. Good or bad, the results it achieves will be the determining factor as to whether or not it was the right thing to do. I am not optimistic about this and hope all are able to live with the consequences of passing this bill.

• 

  Sisyphus on February 06 at 2:00 p.m.

  “Find me an economist that actually understands the issue rather than just speculating with big terms on TV, then we can talk about “in favor” or not. I really don’t care what the pompous gasbags are saying. The bottom line is this,”—oh please CB put up. That’s the weakest dodge in the world and if you just wanna shoot blindly then yeah we should just let Democrats and Republicans duke it out with their emotional appeals. Gasbags are those who pontificate with no basis for doing so. Are you really suggesting we should ignore the advice of economists when dealing with the economy?

  The Republican position is again knee jerk ideological reaction without a basis in empirical reality. A fellow blogger put it very succinctly:

  “I really don’t understand how bipartisanship is ever going to work when one of the parties is insane. Imagine trying to negotiate an agreement on dinner plans with your date, and you suggest Italian and she states her preference would be a meal of tire rims and anthrax. If you can figure out a way to split the difference there and find a meal you will both enjoy, you can probably figure out how bipartisanship is going to work the next few years.”

  We can juggle $100 million here and there but lets get her done.

• 

  Cabbage Boy on February 06 at 2:15 p.m.

  Sis, you used the term gasbags. Speculatin that I got my talking points from some talk show.

  If you can remember way back to the dark days of W, I wasn’t exactly thrilled with the spending then either.

  Bottom line, my stance hasn’t changed with the changing of the party in power.

  If you want to argue against the GOP position, find someone to argue with. My stance has been that we can’t spend our way out of debt. It doesn’t work. The only difference between the GOP and Democratic stance is who gets the pork.

  I still say, no one should. Kudos to Idaho for saying no.

• 

  toadman on February 06 at 2:30 p.m.

  I dunno Cabbage.. while I understand where you’re coming from, I’m not sure NOT spending anything would work. I appreciate the debt situation we’re in, it’s absolutely a disaster.

  However, tax cuts alone, I think, aren’t going to help create jobs, not in any scenario I can think up. Also, I can’t see how tax cuts are going to help someone who’s already LOST his job…much, at least.

  However, government spending on infrastructure, and other things, seems to be the best Keynesian means of kick starting things. For me, it seems simple. Take, for example, something most R’s considered “pork” and has already been axed from the bill. Re-sodding the mall. Now, it seems frivolous, right? But I look at it this way: some contractor would have gotten the contract to do that sod work, and he would have employed people to tear up and lay new sod. That, it seems, keeps people working, and filters money INTO the economy. Take that simple idea, and blow it up into giant infrastructure projects in all fifty states, and you see my point, I think. The money DOES get to the populace, just not in the form of a stimulus check, but in the form of a stimulus job doing actual work. Isn’t that what we want to do? Reward people for working? We don’t want to just PAY people for being American’s do we?

  (this next line will annoy bob, but I’m gonna say it anyway..)
  I’m just sayin’, is all….

  However, I will relent and say that I do agree with many of the R’s who want to help people with their housing loans. I think that’s one of their better ideas, and probably something we should add to the bill.

• 

  Sisyphus on February 06 at 2:52 p.m.

  Thanks Toad.

  Just about every economist, except those who supported the policies that brought us here, agree that this stimulus package is necessary to shorten the recession. In fact many say this isn’t enough, like Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman. Politics aside, I just don’t see your basis for being fiscally conservative when every economist is saying that’s a bad idea right now.

  The policies that brought us here lost another 598,000 jobs last month and 3.6 million since the recession started. Tightening our belts will cause all the other sectors to do the same. If money isn’t flowing the economy doesn’t work. We all know it will take time to spend this authorization and times are dire now.

  And getting back to politics, Republicans in the senate are playing politics over piddly amounts in a $900 billion package arguing what’s the rush. Krugman stated two days ago, 1) there is no middle ground with Republicans who maintain that government spending is almost always bad and that somehow tax cuts are a universal elixir, and 2) the Congressional Budget Office report demonstrates we are flirting with disaster by risking deflation if we don’t act quickly. If you think this is bad its nothing compared to the task of pulling us out of a deflationary economy.

  The proposed cuts are ludicrous:

  “I’m sorry, but anyone who proposes cutting funding to state and local governments at this point is a complete moron. The fastest stimulus is government purchasing. The jobs most in need of saving are at the state level. With slashed aid to states, millions of teachers, firefighters, and cops will be out of work. And cutting food stamps is just as dumb, considering that poor people are most likely to spend just on their own basic necessities, increasing demand. The money they don’t have to spend on food will go elsewhere in the economy.”

  In short, and to paraphrase, we’re heading for a cliff, Obama’s trying to turn the ship and Republicans are trying to push us over it. Republicans can’t lead, refuse to follow, and should get the hell out of the way.

• 

  Cabbage Boy on February 06 at 3:22 p.m.

  Sis and Toad, I well recognize there is a serious problem. Our economy has tanked after years on life support.

  But this is my point. There is no quick fix. Deflation is inevitable when the dollar has been inflated for so long. The “we must move quickly” is just fear mongering to avoid dialogue.

  Paying people to work is good. Printing money to pay people to work is NOT good. It just make the dollar more worthless for everyone. If you can honestly tell me how we can improve the economy with money that doesn’t exist, then I will talk about your economists. But until they address that point, they are just pompous windbags and that isn’t a handy deflection.

  I might not be a certified economist, but I was intelligent enough to foresee the crash. I had the chance and pulled my money out in 06 when it was worth something. It was a gamble and the tax hit was there, but I would bet most investors wish they had done something similar back then.

  Yeah the cuts proposed by the GOP are a mere pittance. I wish they had the numbers to scuttle the whole blasted thing. But they screwed that chance when so many of them spent themselves out of office.

• 

  Bent on February 06 at 7:40 p.m.

  I consider myself pretty well informed on this issue, and something has to be done.

  A deflationary spiral is no lauging matter (Google it).

  Economists do not know how to escape them. Japan has been in one for 10 years and every year they pump more and more money into their economy with no end in sight. The government of Iceland has collapsed. The government of Mexico is not far behind. Could you imagine what would happen to our country if Mexico collapsed?

  Maybe Hmoff could live blog the event from Arizona.

  As for getting our share, why wouldn’t we. Cabbage — with all due respect — if you want to fix the system, by all means have it. But until you find a better way, I for one am not real keen on the idea of paying federal taxes only to have my elected representatives turn those dollars over to another state — simply because they are ideologically opposed to the process.

  Look man, if all of this bailout activity ends with this final stimulus bill, every man woman and child in this country will be on the hook for roughly $10k. I darn well better see some return on that investment in my community.

  I’m all for fixing things in DC, but I’m not up for a billion-dollar protest… but that’s just me.

• 

  Bent on February 06 at 8:13 p.m.

  I disagree with you Sis.

  It is not the Republicans pushing this over the cliff. They are just reacting to the disengenous actions of the Speaker of the House.

  Pelosi has now openly flouted Obama on this effort, as well as the Senate democrats. Let’s not forget that Obama pledged a bipartisan effort, but that didn’t happen despite some moderate GOP congressmen and Senators making several efforts to compromise up front. (it’s all documented look it up).

  But Pelosi not only kicked the GOP under the bus with “her” House bill, she tossed many of her own under there too.

  You just don’t find democrats willing to vote against an extremely popular newly elected president with approval ratings like Obama’s. It doesn’t happen, and it didn’t happen here.

  Eleven Dems voted against Pelosi in the House — not Obama, and some Democrats are still doing it in the Senate.

  I’m watching the debates, and the votes, when I can. Very few votes on amendments, if any, are party-line votes in the Senate. In fact, there have been several bi-partisan amendments offered in the Senate. Just like the $780B proposal that’s on the floor now… it took three republicans, one independent and 16 democrats to hammer it out. It’s probably the best we are going to get, and who do you suppose is still scowling:

  http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18514.html

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