Obama To Sign Stimulus Package

57 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

• 

  Cabbage Boy on February 17 at 10:51 a.m.

  I think HMOffsuite brought up a great point. If it was so critical to rush this through, why the delay in signing it?

  Something smells. Could it be, rotten pork?

• 

  hmoffsuite on February 17 at 10:51 a.m.

  Now that, Mr. DFO, is the $64,000 question. It seems those engaged in the market DON’T think the stimulus package IS a good thing.

• 

  hmoffsuite on February 17 at 10:52 a.m.

  Good nose, CB.

• 

  MikeK on February 17 at 10:55 a.m.

  I’m going to guess Obama won’t have a “Mission Accomplished” banner on the podium behind him, though.

  You know, just sayin’.

• 

  Charlie on February 17 at 10:58 a.m.

  Maybe the talk of nationalizing certain industries like the banks. To much government interference, by people who have never run a business or made a budget.

  How many hidden goodies are in this pig that are rotten like a train from Disneyland to Las Vegas, one fantasy land to another.

• 

  Cabbage Boy on February 17 at 11:01 a.m.

  MikeK,
  Wish he would, but I am very afraid he isn’t done yet.

• 

  toadman on February 17 at 11:03 a.m.

  “If the stimulus package is such a good thing, why is the market tanking?”

  Honestly? I don’t know. I suspect it was going to go down anyway. The market is imaginary money anyway. In fact, maybe we should stop looking at the market as a metric of how well every day Americans are doing…remember, a good portion of us don’t like to gamble…and gambling, it is…

  As far as the stimulus package (thanks for taking the pork out of your description, by the way) goes, I don’t know if it’s going to work either. I know, I know, Obama’s my guy, I voted him in…and I fully expected this sort of thing. Still, I have no idea if it’ll work…frankly, I don’t think anyone really knows.

  It’s a full shift in economic philosophy, true, and that kind of shift is both disorienting and disconcerting, even to a dyed in the wool liberal like myself. The only precedent we have for the government injecting money into the economy to this extend is during FDR’s “New Deal,” which I’ll remind everyone, wasn’t very popular with Republicans of that era, either. But it worked, to a point, it seems. At least history seems to bear that out. History also tells us that the New Deal may not have gone as far as it should have gone, to repair the economy. A war came along, which altered things too much. We may never know if these Keynesian methods are going to work completely.

  Digging a hole, then filling it back up again, and calling it work might work for a while to keep a man employed, but I think the rest is really up to us, every day Americans, to stop bitching about the economy, the bail out package, and everything else, and just do what we do best, innovate and move on.

• 

  hmoffsuite on February 17 at 11:07 a.m.

  MikeK. Instead of a banner, Obama had Pelosi announcing “WE WON”, (so go shove it, of sorts). Same effect.

• 

  danofthecommunity on February 17 at 11:11 a.m.

  I think the rush to get it passed last week was not because Obama wouldn’t be available this week but because Congress was taking a break this week.

• 

  hmoffsuite on February 17 at 11:14 a.m.

  toad >> “Honestly? I don’t know. I suspect it was going to go down anyway. The market is imaginary money anyway.”

  That statement is so far out there that I can’t even begin to respond to it.

• 

  Cabbage Boy on February 17 at 11:22 a.m.

  Well Toad, from my vantage point, FDR’s new deal kept us in the depression. Repub Hoover started the government involvement and then FDR came in and continued the government spending that kept our economy in the tank.

  And speaking of digging a hole just to fill it again, that reminds me of the “work” done by FDRs vaunted CCC and WPA.

• 

  Whippersnapper on February 17 at 11:24 a.m.

  I heard that Obama is flying Air Force One to Denver to highlight the all the green jobs that the stimulus package will produce. But perhaps not to highlight all the greenhouse gases that giant airplanes produce.
  It also looks like there will be tax breaks in there, but each one comes with a credit card—one for each of your kids, too—that’s been maxed out already.

• 

  toadman on February 17 at 11:26 a.m.

  “That statement is so far out there that I can’t even begin to respond to it.”

  Thanks! I was going for “not possible to be responded to by hmoffsuite” with that one!! It worked!

  yay me!!

  heh.. just kidding man.

  Truth is, the market just doesn’t make any sense to me as a metric for what’s going on in the real day to day economy. What I’m saying is, it doesn’t have a noticeable effect on my day to day life. Sure, I understand companies losing value affects their ability to do business, but outside of that, it seems to me that the market isn’t the issue, it’s consumer confidence.

• 

  toadman on February 17 at 11:28 a.m.

  “…that reminds me of the “work” done by FDRs vaunted CCC and WPA.”

  Hey man, the town I grew up in, in Texas, had a beautiful High School Gymnasium built by the WPA that’s still standing today. Guess they dug a hole, and put a Gym on top of it that time.

• 

  Nick_Adams on February 17 at 11:58 a.m.

  Watching the stock market day-to-day (or minute-by-minute) seems and judging whether or not the Recovery and Reinvestment Act will work seems about as valid a comparison as watching the weather day-to-day and denying climate change.

• 

  Aliasjax on February 17 at 12:06 p.m.

  This is so easy to understand, it’s (almost) laughable.

  Obama has spent the first month of his presidency blaming the free market for our troubles, knowing that the free market is not only not the problem but is what will get us out of the mess.

  He has offered more government spending as a solution for our problems, knowing that it was government policies and spending that got us into the mess.

  It’s perfect, really. It will be the market that fixes the problems and gets things moving again, but won’t get any credit for doing so - Obama and his spending will get the credit. He’ll be a hero and will have expanded the powers of the federal government beyond anyone’s imagination…problems will come again, however, when the weight of the government is too much for the market to bare. That’s why I’m not laughing…

• 

  Whippersnapper on February 17 at 12:07 p.m.

  A great story, for financial dummies like me, in Time Magazine about why the banking system is in so much trouble.

  http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1874702,00.html?iid=perma_share

• 

  eagleeye on February 17 at 12:24 p.m.

  I have a ticker that I have bookmarked that says that the tally for the war in Iraq is 597 billion and counting. How much of that is waste? How much of that is pork? How much of that is absolutely unaccounted for? And I havent heard many of the GOP talking about the waste there. Is this bill perfect? No. But I certainly would rather spend the money here at home than handing a fistful of cash to a Sunni !

  There is a fine line between a total free market and too much regulation. Part of the reason for this mess IS the free market.
  This free market allowed mortgages to be made to dead cats.
  If it wasnt for greed we wouldnt need government regulation.
  But since greed and money go hand and hand it is a necessary evil.

• 

  toadman on February 17 at 12:30 p.m.

  “This free market allowed mortgages to be made to dead cats.” - eagleeye

  Holy crap, really? I need to call my broker.

  ;-)

  Well said, though.

• 

  Escapee on February 17 at 3:07 p.m.

  Something sounds awfully benign with the “Tax Cuts”, proposed and installed by Republicans, The market tanked, largely because of uncertainty, and I’m thinking that Republican sentiment, en masse, against the Stimulus Package, only has added to market uncertainty. Obama is to be credited, however, for putting the issue of the economy out there on the table…and maybe next time around, he’ll be tougher with Congress. The guy’s only been President for almost a month now…this Package may not be everything he envisioned, but it’s something…which is a lot more than the Bush administration was doing. I still am hopeful, but Good Things Take Time. I wanna see Obama Really Turn Up The Heat with congress. But, this isn’t bad for a Presidency which is only 30 days old…

• 

  Aliasjax on February 17 at 3:59 p.m.

  “…this Package may not be everything he envisioned, but it’s something…which is a lot more than the Bush administration was doing.”

  Oh brother! It’s exactly the same thing the Bush Administration did, or have we all forgotten Tarp 1??? The only thing that’s a “lot more” is the price tag.

  “This free market allowed mortgages to be made to dead cats.”

  That was not a failure of the market, dude. It was a failure of regulatory policy. We’re rewarding the same failed policy makers with more authority to make more policies because they’ve sucessfully shifted blame from themselves to market failures.

• 

  hmoffsuite on February 17 at 4:09 p.m.

  Escapee >> “The guy’s only been President for almost a month now…this Package may not be everything he envisioned, but it’s something”

  Sometimes, doing nothing is better than doing something. As far as turning up the heat on Congress, it ain’t gunna happen. Obama is a puppet boy for Pelosi and Reid. He has already demonstrated that. Obama’s political debt is huge. Getting where he is required a lot of favors. Ask Hillary about it.

• 

  Escapee on February 17 at 6:44 p.m.

  Re: Mssrs. Hmoff and Alias…Sure, we’re taking chances here; I fully understand that. All we’ve got is hope right now. All we know is what they’re telling us. All I can do is hope that Obama really does provide a degree of transparency; after all, we’ve been told that this time around (unlike last winter’s Bush Bailout), that money spent would be accounted for. Everyone’s been saying that tax-cuts favor the rich; well, I’m not a politician, so I don’t know that personally…and there’s more tax cuts attached by Republicans than President Obama would’ve preferred. The economy’s going down the tubes with or without anyone doing something. Like I said, all I can do is HOPE. That, and maybe write a congressman or two on down the line.

  I just get the feeling everyone’s expecting instant perfection with this new Administration, and maybe, maybe, it’s too soon to put on the Death Mask just yet….I wasn’t there to know what favors President Obama has or hasn’t granted to incur that ‘debt’; I’ll hafta take your word for it…but at the same time, what favors did GWB end up doing so he could get re-elected for one of the most miserable second terms in HISTORY?

• 

  Arch_Druid on February 17 at 10:22 p.m.

  I’d like to see what Hmoffsuite says about doing nothing when he has no job, no money, no home, no health care, etc. No way to go online and post a pure line of garbage. Let’s put it bluntly, businesses give you a hand out and a hand up just by hiring you. Those businesses also get a hand out and a hand up by what gvt does for them. Utopian fantasies when you’ve got it made make for a nice idealistic argument. They won’t work for the people who live in the real world and don’t have it made. Hmoffsuite, don’t kid yourself, both Dem and Rep. Governors, mayors and etc. expect money from the Feds. They expect to get a hand out and a hand up from Washington, D.C. on all of our dimes. But then, they are living in the real world even if the GOP Congressional minority does not.

• 

  Whippersnapper on February 17 at 10:56 p.m.

  Business is the ONLY thing that generates money in an economy. Government does not generate money, but they’re willing to borrow a trillion bucks on our behalf to “help” us. It’s not going to have the desired effect because banks and major corporations are teetering on the brink of death and everyone’s scared. Building some bridges and highways isn’t going to foster the atmosphere for business to flourish and take off again.
  It should scare the living daylights out of everyone that our federal government is large enough to borrow money of this magnitude with no hope of repaying it. Just pray that the Saudis and Chinese don’t realize this and will buy the $789 billion in T-bills we need to finance this boondoggle.

• 

  Joker on February 17 at 11:42 p.m.

  Arch,

  These reason politicians from both parties have their hands out to Uncle Sam and society expects its government to do all kinds of things for them.

  This idea that Obama is some kind of socialist is laughable. We’ve been on the road to socialism for decades. I am not complaining about that. It just is.

  I have to disagree with your conclusion that businesses give their employees a handout and help up by hiring you. Employers hire employees to perform tasks that help them make money. They don’t hire people cause your down and out. Government will help you with food, shelter, and medicine. All you have to do is prove you don’t make x-amount of dollars.

  Employers don’t care if you’re homeless or a trust fund kid. They want you to show up and do your job, and do it well.

• 

  Joker on February 17 at 11:54 p.m.

  Obama’s stimulus package has good things and bad things. Nobody will be perfectly happy with it.

  The bigger questions regard society’s values. Americans are addicted to merchandise. We’ve been busily buying things with money we don’t have for a long time. We’ve leveraged our selves with credit cards, second mortgages, and loans.

  Mix out of whack wage structures, soaring health care costs and corporate greed and you’ve got middle class families struggling to make it.

  The more we buy, the futher we fall into debt. It’s cliche, but the rich get richer and poor get poor. .

  At some point, the whole thing has to collapse. There is no easy fix. We have to look at how we do things in things and start making moral decisions. Should a CEO make $5 million annually when his employees make an average salary of $45,000.

  The CEO needs to take responsiblity and invest that money back into the company, through higher wages, better benefits, better facilities and improving the product.

  We’ve got to quit caring only about ourselves and start looking at the bigger picture. Until we do that, Congress can pass all the stimulus packages it wants, but the core problems will remain.

• 

  hmoffsuite on February 18 at 6:25 a.m.

  Arch >>> ” Let’s put it bluntly, businesses give you a hand out and a hand up just by hiring you. Those businesses also get a hand out and a hand up by what gvt does for them”

  You are correct that business is the engine that drives the economy. And, business, when attractive, will attract investors and capital. The best thing for our government to do would not give business handouts, but rather tax incentives to attract those investors and create the profitability. If a business model doesn’t work, it should fail. That is the essence of our capitalistic way of doing things. Most businesses doesn’t want or need handouts, just eliminate the penalties of over burdensome taxes. That is the incentive that would stimulate the economy and get it back on track. You might be more aligned to my thinking on this than you realize.

• 

  Bob on February 18 at 6:39 a.m.

  Because tax cuts have worked so well. I believe most rabid tax cut proponents are simply folks who lack the sense of civic responsibility that being a citizen of the USA entails. Money is a source of emotional masturbation for them and anything that can deny even a little of their supply of $ porn causes them distress.

  You can’t tax cut your way out of this mess, or deregulate your way out of this mess and Reaganomics is being revealed once again to be a confused doddering old economic system who wets his pants and can’t find his car keys.

  The cows are coming home to roost as I often say.

  ((((Keynes))))
  ))))Reagan((((

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