IMHO Idaho: Day Care Regs ‘Onerous’

85 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

• 

  Aliasjax on February 25 at 10:39 a.m.

  Yes…but moreso, silly.

  The net effect of legislation requiring centers with four or more children will be the proliferation of centers with 3 or fewer. It solves little to nothing and adds to the state beuracracy…it’s feel good legislation.

• 

  scootermom on February 25 at 10:42 a.m.

  IVA is onerous.

  The regulations proposed are quite modest. Manicurists are subject to more regulation that child care providers.

  We’ve got some misplaced priorities.

• 

  nic on February 25 at 10:42 a.m.

  There is little to no evidence that increased regulation of daycare centers does much to protect child health and safety…

  I say we put Bryan’s kids in an over crowded in-home center where the owner’s husband is a registered chimo… but there’s no regulation to protect those kids because the husband was not required to have his bacground checked.

• 

  Aliasjax on February 25 at 11:08 a.m.

  Nic…it’s one thing to say there’s a problem here, and another to prove it…you’re scenario is full of fright, any evidence?

  I’m no fan of IVA…dude’s a nut, but I’m not aware of these overcrowded in-home day care facilities run by pedophiles. Maybe you could enlighten me? Also, how small does the house have to be for it to be over-crowded with four kids in it???

• 

  Joker on February 25 at 11:08 a.m.

  I wouldn’t put my kids in an Idaho daycare. Daycares are pure evil.

• 

  JBelle on February 25 at 11:31 a.m.

  I think it would be interesting for Marmitetoasty to read the proposed regs and comment. She just went through an extensive relicensing exercise for her home daycare with the British government that would make any compliance officer blanche.

• 

  marmitetoasty on February 25 at 11:42 a.m.

  I’ll read all the buff that Cis was so kind to send me and comment a little later……

  At the moment, Im nursing Cedril in the hope that he will not die over night, as something scared him and he flapped 2 gardens over where Millie the little Jack Russel Terrier that lives at number 50 almost ripped Cedric in half :(

  Anyone want any feathers to stuff their pillow?

  x

  ps…. all the best paperwork and registration will not protect a child from a bad or neglectful childmind…….

• 

  marmitetoasty on February 25 at 11:43 a.m.

  childminder……..

  x

• 

  Liz on February 25 at 11:50 a.m.

  Well, if the regulations are for truly important stuff such as background checks, basic cleanliness and reasonable adult/child ratios then that’s great. So often though, this stuff winds up being about minutiae that make the licensure more trouble than its worth.
  Let’s not forget too that false security can be bred by licensure. there are plenty of pedophiles out there who just haven’t been caught. No checklist can replace a parent checking out a facility with open eyes and enquiring mind. And asking LOTS of questions of other parents.

• 

  Nick_Adams on February 25 at 11:54 a.m.

  DFO: You titled the post “IMHO”. Is it in your humble opinion that the day care regs are onerous or just a Freudian slip?

• 

  DFO on February 25 at 11:57 a.m.

  Nick Adams; I’ve been trying to figure out what to title the post that features Idaho bloggers. I’ve gone with IMHO b/c it’s sort of a catch-all for opinion. I used to go Idaho Blogs. But I sometimes include columns and editorials by Idaho newspapers in this roundup (so Idaho Blogs isn’t totally accurate. Mebbe I should go back to that. As for your question … I totally support George Sayler’s attempt to get common-sense regulation of Idaho’s day-cares. IVA is way off the mark in its comment.

• 

  Joker on February 25 at 12:14 p.m.

  Daycare is a sad reality for many parents who can’t live on a single income. It’s too bad employers don’t pay wages that allow families to make choices about who is raising their kids. Nothing is better than a parent raising their child, nothing.

• 

  nic on February 25 at 12:25 p.m.

  Aliasjax, try this.

  Kids Works Daycare in Twin Falls was closed twice in one month for leaving a child behind after closing, and allowing another toddler to wander off-premises. Their business license was later revoked.

  There’s an in-home daycare on Pine Hill that houses at least a dozen kids. My own kids were at an in-home daycare in Hayden that had 20 kids with one adult and one teenaged worker. (They were there one day and will not ever be back)

  The daycare next to my office got in trouble when a parent showed up to pick up their son and found him wandering outside in the parking lot. The parent put the kid in their car and went inside to ask the daycare workers where the son was, the daycare said he was playing on the playground. When they looked, they couldn’t find him.
  A parent showed up to pick up their kids at a Post Falls in-home and their kids was sitting in a sioled diaper with poo oozing down their legs. The parent checked her kid’s diaper supply.. the daycare had not changed the kid’s diaper all day.

  BTW, those last two examples are not second hand stories - I’ve talked with each of the parents involved.

  The child molestor is a bit of a stretch - but in Idaho… it’s possible. As far as neglected children, overcrowding, and inattentive workers… it’s a reality. Not in every daycare… but it does happen. And it happens too often.

  We have a problem when the state allows smoking, alcohol consumption, and firearms on daycare premises, and does not require background checks. Coeur d’Alene has stricter license restrictions than the state does, but surronding communities (Post Falls, Haden, Plummer, Spirit Lake, etc.) does not have those restrictions.

• 

  DFO on February 25 at 12:32 p.m.

  Joker; I totally agree with you that kids benefit by having one parent home, either one. I’ve been fortunate enough to have worked for almost 40 years in a profession that allowed me to pay the bills well enough (albeit marginally at times) that my wife didn’t have to work outside the home. She has a part-time job now that allows her to be available for people in need. However, I also know that many people simply can’t survive without two salaries. A good day-care fills the bill for them. If they can afford it. And those day-cares need to be regulated to better ensure the kids are safe.

• 

  hmoffsuite on February 25 at 12:32 p.m.

  nic. You point out the essence of the problem very well and the necessity for oversight. This is a topic area in which I am totally ignorant.

• 

  idawa on February 25 at 12:41 p.m.

  Over the last 30 years, the average family income has risen approx 10%, which is nice, but that doesn’t account for the statistic that over that time the number of 2 income familes has risen by nearly 50%. What that tells us is a single wage earner has less buying power than ever and that families are strecthed thin. More than ever, families are falling behind and both parents need to work more then ever to provide for their children in this economy - safe day care is an essential part of that equation. IVA would prefer that women choose staying at home rather than the unsafe day care down the block and therefore always oppose G. Sayler’s efforts, however, it is Idaho’s children that pay the price. Idaho’s politial class has its priorites all backwards.

• 

  BlueinIdaho on February 25 at 12:46 p.m.

  I fail to understand how an individual can be so passionate to the point of fanatacism about children when they are not yet born and at the same time be so laissez faire about children who made it out of the womb.

  Yes, parents should be involved in making certain the daycare is appropriate, but absent looking over their shoulder the 8 or more hours your child is attending, there really is no way to be certain that unnecessary dangers are not present.

• 

  Joker on February 25 at 12:47 p.m.

  Good luck finding a good daycare. Even the expensive ones have problems. Daycares are businesses. They’re set up to get as much money as possible. That means hiring people, typically women, for minimum wages, and trying to cram as many kids into a facility as it can hold.

  If you wonder why our society is screwed up, take a long hard look at daycare. Who is raising your kids and instiling the values you want? Probably some high school dropout with two or three kids of their own and is more worried about paying the rent than she or he is than taking care of your little bundle of joy.

  The answer is better paying jobs. The problem, government can’t regulate that. Society better get it’s head on straight and figure out that kids and families are the most important thing..

  Regulate until your face turns blue. It’s needed, no doubt. How about tackling the real issues that force people to use daycare in the first place!

• 

  Nick_Adams on February 25 at 12:54 p.m.

  DFO: Thanks for the clarification. Not to get too far into your knickers, but here are some other potential titles:

  1. On My RADAR
  2. ITHO (In their humble opinion)
  3. Blowhards and Bloggers (or is that redundant)

• 

  BlueinIdaho on February 25 at 1:02 p.m.

  Joker, I am pleased to say I used the services of a great daycare that was staffed by retired women who managed to make a bit of extra cash while spending time with kids they adored. However, I also had the experience of the facility-type that simply warehoused the children–they need this type of oversight.

  That said, understand that many people aren’t “forced” to use daycare…they choose to do so.

• 

  DFO on February 25 at 1:16 p.m.

  Nick; I changed it out front to IMHO Idaho. I think that takes it off my back b/c I certainly don’t always agree with the opinion highlighted.

• 

  Cabbage Boy on February 25 at 1:39 p.m.

  We had to use daycare early on in college and shortly after. We did our own research and found quality home daycares. When one went south as the lady went through a divorce and started taking on too many kids, we noticed and found a new one.

  As marmite sez, all the regulations in the world can’t protect against everything.

  That said, we sure noticed a difference in the kids once we kept them home with one of us.

  Reminds me of that saying, the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. Sure don’t want excessive gov’t involvement in that.

• 

  markr on February 25 at 1:57 p.m.

  I love this:
  There is little to no evidence that increased regulation of daycare centers does much to protect child health and safety.

  Based on what? Where’s the link to the evidence of the opposite being true?

• 

  marmitetoasty on February 25 at 2:38 p.m.

  I had to delete over a 1000 characters before I could post this lol, and still it probably wont come over to well, cos I aint to good with words

  I will just say that, I dont know about over there but over here we are regulated by Ofsted, which is the inspectors also for all schools and places of education, we have to have a frame work in place for all children in our care to meet THEIR individual needs.

  We act under the EYFS (Early Years Foundation Stage) for the under 5s, children no longer go ‘play’ at someones house, we have strick guidelines in education and development we HAVE to follow, we have piles and piles of paperwork and planning on EACH individual child, helping them reach there full potential, we have to follow the EYFS and make detailed observations with next development stage to be reach. we have to take into account in the over 5 each childs seperate interests, religion, culture, disabilities, no longer can you just pick up nippers from school and they come home to play…. it all has to follow a learning curve.

  We childminders are regulated and inspected often with no notice, just the same as schools here.

  We have to have police checks, not only for ourselves but for anyone over the age of 16 that lives in the house or who visits regulary (such as a boyfriend or an X partner)

  We have to have paedeactric first aid training, a 12 week course, every 3 years

  We have to keep a daily register with the exact times the children come and leave

  We have to have environmental health and safety checks by professionals and have to register with both authorities

  We have to about many policies in place and show to be adhering to them

  I have over 50 policies in place all of which the parents of the children in my care have signed.. all of which have been inspected by ofsted

  We have to have a complaints proceedure in place so parents have all the important social services numbers so that if they are not happy with something and they feel they could not discuss it with a minder

  We have to have a 4 page law abiding contract reviewed yearly, signed by ourselves and the parents which safeguards both sides

  We have to have an accident and emergency procedure in place and prove that we can follow this in an emergency

  The list is so very vast to go into on here

  We also have to have ongoing courses, from child protection, first aid, there are about 20 we choose from with about 6 have to maintain

  We have to have equal opportunities and have so much equipment, showing diversity and disabilities and cultures and religions

  All parents get access for minders/pre-schools Inspection Reports, just like you can have access to school inspection reports, cos we all come under the same authority……

  But even with all that in place. childs can still (like we see on the news) fall through the net, except in a village setting like where I live, the first sign of neglect or a raised voice would get reported within hours lol

  http://www.underfives.co.uk/EYFS-Guide.html

  http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/Ofsted-home/Leading-to-excellence/What-inspectors-look-for

  I KNOW I do a great job with all the kids that come into my care, I KNOW those first years are so important as to their outcome when they start school, I also know that when they start school and I have them before and after, that their individual needs are met

  They also know the boundaries I set might be different then at their parents home, I never have to disipline, dont have a naughty spot, they know the rules and feel safe and comfortable with them

  anyways, they know I would peg them on the line by their ears and spin the washing line round until they were sick if they misbehaved LOL

  Jebus we laff in this house :)

  over and out, sorry for the waffling, but Im so very passionate about my job and how well I do it….

  now…. SOMEONE FIND ME A JOB OVER IN THE STATES lol…. I think I would be inundated with work LOL

  x

• 

  DFO on February 25 at 2:47 p.m.

  Marmie; congratulations on your second blog, er, blob-iversary.

• 

  Cabbage Boy on February 25 at 2:48 p.m.

  Marmite,
  When I get rich and elected to high office, we will bring you over to be our personal childminder. :)

  All above the table of course, unlike so many of these scofflaws we elect.

• 

  poolman on February 25 at 2:50 p.m.

  I don’t really see a down-side to daycare regulation other than maybe a slight increase in cost. I assume the standards that would have to be met, e.g. sanitation practices, suitable food, toys and furniture, adequate space, HVAC, plumbing, background checks, basic first aid training, ratio of adults to children would create some additional expenses for most providers.

  However, I think most people would be happy to pay a little more knowing these things are being audited and I personally would find peace of mind seeing documented proof of this type of certification. Right now it’s a crap shoot – if you are new to an area and need daycare ASAP – you’re whistling in the dark.

• 

  marmitetoasty on February 25 at 2:54 p.m.

  Fanks Davie - its mostly your fault, along with JBelle and Toadie that got me started LOL…. so all complaints about me blob will be redirected over here LOL

  Cabbage………I can be cheap, my needs are few….. I should sell up (I have over $500,000 equity in me little house, which aint much but I could buy something little in doodleland) and come over and open a little something :) plus do high teas at 4pm with crumpets and scones LMFAO……

  x

• 

  marmitetoasty on February 25 at 2:58 p.m.

  Poolman - over here if you are new to an area, you just get in contact with ofsted or social services and they will give you a list of all carers be it minders or pre-schools etc…. and also give their inspection reports….. which are graded …… unsatisfactory - good - OUTSTANDING….. people are safe in the knowlege that they are NOT out on a limb with this…. NCMA (National Childminding Association) is also a great place to start…..

  I cant believe you dont have all this in place over there…….. no one in this country is legally allowed to look after someone elses children for monitary (is that a word lol) gain…. without everything that Ive talked about AND MORE in place………. and yes…….. I have to do all me own tax accounts to LOL….

  x

• 

  toadman on February 25 at 2:59 p.m.

  “…come over and open a little something :) plus do high teas at 4pm with crumpets and scones…”

  That would be BRILLIANT! When I visited my parents in Kenya, they did high tea every day at 4pm (hold over from colonial days, of course). I REALLY got used to that…and still kinda miss it.

• 

  marmitetoasty on February 25 at 3:06 p.m.

  Toadie, me and the nippers had hot buttered crumpets at 4 o’clock when we got back from school :)…. and then half a scone each with a big dollop of clotted cream and a blob of strawberry jam…… I kid you not :)

  x

• 

  toadman on February 25 at 3:10 p.m.

  YUM!!!! Man, oh, man. I got ToadGirl some store bought clotted cream from a specialty shop a while back.

• 

  marmitetoasty on February 25 at 3:19 p.m.

  Toadie…….. Cornish Clotted Cream is the bestest in the world :) it is as thick as butter…. and there is no taste like it anywhere in the world…..

  Mmmmm wondering if I cant send you some lmfao

  x

• 

  poolman on February 25 at 3:21 p.m.

  Marmy - Anybody can open up a daycare in their house at any time. I believe there is a “certification” that some choose to get, but there is no law stating they have to have it to watch other peoples little ones for $’s. This is obviously one area many of the European countries are more progressive than the US. - You evil Socialist Liberals - :) How dare you put kids before political dogma.

• 

  nic on February 25 at 3:22 p.m.

  “they know I would peg them on the line by their ears and spin the washing line round until they were sick if they misbehaved”

  Marmie - there’s a great many things the state of Idaho will allow in a daycare (guns, booze, chimos) but I’m pretty sure whatever you just described would not be allowed here.

  ;-)

• 

  toadman on February 25 at 3:32 p.m.

  poolman’s right, if memory serves, in WA, it depends on HOW MANY nippers you’re taking care of.. if it’s over a set number, then you have to do something or other to remain *legal.* Under that amount, and you’re just “a friend helping out someone who happens to be paying you a little bit” as is the case of my own wife who cares for one kid for a couple of hours a day after school. Problem is, she hasn’t seen a single dime yet, and is about to tell the parent that she just really can’t keep it up.

  Also, nic, you should ask marmie about the skulls she keeps around her kitchen, and what she uses THEM for!!

  ;-)

  Marmie, you know you don’t need to send us ANYTHING, but if you must, we’ll take anything. In fact, you probably can’t send cans of beer, but if you could, there’s probably several brands over there that I could never get here.

  heh…

  THAT would probably get us BOTH in trouble, though!

• 

  marmitetoasty on February 25 at 3:46 p.m.

  LMAO@nic - do you know, when you get inspected here, they not only check out the rooms where the children have access, but they also check all over the house, incase you have shotguns or knives on show, so that was in all my sons bedrooms and my room….I had to laff, my Sam was still in bed when the inspector inspected his room - to be honest I dont agree with that part cos the kids are NOT allowed up stairs in my house…….. they dont even take ya word for it….. the nosey gits LOL….

  Thank the lord they didnt find the 7 illegal immigrants I had hidding under me bed sharpening their knives and sorting out shotgun cartridges :)

  Poolman - yeah them dam bloody kids always take priority lol

  Toadie - if you get paid for childcare here YOU HAVE to declare it and get registed and pay taxes on it to :)

  Shhhh about the skulls, they are me scare tactics to make nippers eat their lunches lol

  And hey Toad….. when I visited me maties in Wisconstance 4 years ago, me and me lads each took the biggest hand luggage we could filled with different bottles of british ales :) - I think we ended up taking over 4o different ones, but that we before all the NO LIQUID IN HAND LUGGAGE rules came into affect…. the blokes at customs just couldnt believe all the different bottles :) from Hobgobbin and Bishops Finger and Squeekie Joes and Elfs Delight and HSB (Hampshire Special Brew) and and the list is endless……. if the dam bottles were not so heavy then I would post ya one a week…….. I couldnt post tins of beer though cos they would probably explode LOL

  But I did find today all the new variety of crisps that have just come out here and I will try and get them posted off to you this week…… Cajin Squirel, Chillie and Chocolate, fish and chips, builders breakfast, onion bhaji and crispy duck and hoisin …….

  ok……. tiz way past me bedtime so I will bid you all goodnight, I mean, I have kids by the dozen arrived in the morning at 7am :) - get rid of most of them to school and then a little educational trip to Southampton and the new IKEA which only opened last week seems in order LOL……..

  nite - enjoy your evening….

  x

• 

  carolynl on February 25 at 3:48 p.m.

  Hey Marmie:

  I’ve always been a bit of an anglophile, but your post did me in. I’m moving to ‘jolly ole’ ASAP. Just knowing that any care center in which I placed my darling one would be that rigorously vetted would alleviate a lot of my worries. Now if I could only come up with the $$ - or is it ££? - it would take to live there, I’d be set!

• 

  marmitetoasty on February 25 at 3:57 p.m.

  Carolyn - :) pop over to Twaddle and ya might win a box of british crap from me LMFAO…

  Yep, it takes the worry out of childcare here with all daycare following the same levels…….

  Do you also know that, most parents and thats parents with good jobs can get up to 70% of their childcare costs paid for by our government…. they have to fill in a form and give our/my Registration number to prove their kid is at an ofsted’d care place…..

  Also when a child get to 3 the government will pay for 5 full sessions of childcare a week, thats either 5 morning sessions or 5 afternoon sessions or a mixutre of both PLUS they can still claim up to 70% of the rest of their childcare costs……. even the kids I have before and after school, their parents can legally claim between 40-70% of my fees……. its so that those parents that have to work can make good use of their wages and NOT have to pay it all out on childcare, which often defeats the object of working….. only those on a bloody high income can not claim…. and Im talking something like those on a combined income of probably over $120,000 a year, those under can get loads of help…….

  ok, really off to bed now LOL

  x

• 

  marmitetoasty on February 25 at 4:02 p.m.

  ps…..Carolyn - if you go over to twaddle and scroll back 3 posts, I did a post about about me inspection and stuff :)

  x

• 

  toadman on February 25 at 4:16 p.m.

  Wow.. imagine that.. common sense in Childcare, in jolly old England!!!

  What’s wrong with the US?

  Marmie - I CAN’T WAIT to taste all those.. Builder’s Breakfast! Awesome.. is it like a proper fry-up or a bacon butty flavor or something?

  …but alas, you’re probably in bed by now.. nite nite..

• 

  Cis on February 25 at 4:29 p.m.

  I did a post on this subject today…. even the daycare people want this bill.
  One of the group of people that is missing from this comment area is the single parent…be it mom or dad… who are heavy users of the day cares.

  As I said in my blog, there are more rules and regs for the elderly than there is for the day care… Both the elderly and children are the ones who need special care. For the congress to not think this is important is crazy. Crimial checks are for all crimes. Drugs, abuses of all kinds.

  In a nursing home, during activies if a resident leaves the table because they are bored..and the aide doesn’t go after them and find another thing for them to do… that nursing home can and is fined. that is how picky the regs are. Yet we don’t want to have crimial checks for child day care? We don’t want safety for them? Sorry, but that leaves me shaking my head.

  I am glad that Marmity toast rang in here… that is why I sent her to full bill for her to read. In hopes she would comment.

• 

  sue on February 25 at 7:11 p.m.

  Good daycares are supportive of state and local regulations. Washington state has reasonable rules for that business, and it is a business, and the good ones thrive. If anyone can hang a sign on their door, and charge for caring for kids, it throws all of them in the same pool. But responsible day care providers get more education and training, and provide a safe environment for the kids. It’s only common sense to establish fair children to adult ratios, and safe facilities. BF’s attitude is disgusting, and unfortunately, too many backward legislators are in his hip pocket. The children who don’t have a voice pay the price for that kind of arrogant mindset.

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