33 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

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  Cabbage Boy on June 03 at 10:10 a.m.

  Still waiting for our resident bleeding hearts to express the same outrage about the “politically and religiously motivated” killing of our two soldiers.

  Perhaps they are busy recovering from their latest stroke trying to connect IVA to the Tiller murder?

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  idawa on June 03 at 10:13 a.m.

  I think the more pertinent question for us is what will be the impact of the Fischer's departure on HBO where he is frequent fodder …

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  Arch_Druid on June 03 at 10:20 a.m.

  I was about to say, “the lefty media” has given Fischer a great deal of exposure, re Huckleberries online. Then he turns around and bites the hand that feeds him and goes on to spew a lot of hatred toward anyone who doesn't think like he does.

  Well, well, well; Fischer should take a look at his arguments that only radical think can produce. The problem with his pretzel is that it is totally inedible.

  If he keeps it up, he truly can bear some responsibility for the Tiller murder.

  Now to Cabbage Boy, it is truly unfortunate that soldiers who just finished basic training were suddenly just shot down on the basis of religious motivation. It is JUST as horrible as the doctor who was shot down on the basis of religious motivation.

  And I am not a liberal.

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  scootermom on June 03 at 10:33 a.m.

  Fischer. Declines to accept responsiblity for his actions to the bitter end. “What? Me? I was just expressing my opinion. I never meant to hurt anyone.” Bleh.

  Idaho will be a better place for families without him.

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  Kage_Mann on June 03 at 10:40 a.m.

  “it is truly unfortunate that soldiers who just finished basic training were suddenly just shot down on the basis of religious motivation. It is JUST as horrible as the doctor who was shot down on the basis of religious motivation”.

  And I am not a liberal.

  Nice try, Arch.Dr.Tiller took the lives of 60,000 souls since 1973.
  Most of those were in the last trimester, because that's what he specialized in.it may not be against the law to abort in the last trimester, but to god it's a grievous sin.I would be more scared of gods laws, than of mans laws.Abortion made this doctor a wealthy man.Did he sell his soul, for wealth?
  

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  sue on June 03 at 11:03 a.m.

  “Will the departure of Bryan Fischer to Mississippi mean the end to the Idaho Values Alliance?” God, I hope so.

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  Sisyphus on June 03 at 11:19 a.m.

  Spare me Kage. If its God's law he violated then let Him judge the good doctor. But you and your people incite this kind of violence by your continued reference to murder. 'Murder' is a legal term that has no application here. But you guys need to have a little more self reflection and study your Bible for guidance which I believe says to judge not. This is between the doctor and the patient on how to deal with the pregnancy. They don't need you or the government to interfere. They're not hurting you.

  And as far as the doctor getting wealthy, he could have made three times what he made, doing just about anything else his license allows, without being stalked, assaulted, vilified, publicly condemned and eventually murdered. It certainly wasn't money that drove him.

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  ShoshoneConservative on June 03 at 11:24 a.m.

  To read some of these posts, and on the other Blogs, you would think Fischer was some sort of conservative uber-guru, behind whom the Idaho right marched in lock-step, and whose departure has now left this huge power vacuum on the right.

  As an Idaho social conservative, I had never heard of the man until a couple years ago, when I found a link to his site on another site. I agree with some of what he says, and disagree on others (closed primaries, daycare regulation, and some economic issues, for instance). Any one of the thousands of conservatives in Idaho with a little time, money, web space, and coherence in expressing general conservative thought can, and likely will, take his place. This isn't William F. Buckley, Bob Novak, or even Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter we're talking about here. Just an outspoken Protestant minister with a website, a following, and some powerful friends.

  Maybe things are different in the Merry ol' Land of South Idaho…

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  toadman on June 03 at 11:39 a.m.

  “Or will someone else take up Fischer’s banner?”

  The IVA needs someone coherent, who can think through complex issues, and can also have the intellect to at least try and understand other points of view while maintaining his/her own social conservative values. Fischer did not provide these.

  I nominate Cabbage Boy to take his place.

  Whaddaya say, Cabbage?

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  nic on June 03 at 12:04 p.m.

  I don't think the lefties are attaking Fisher as he departs. They're celebrating. And it's not just the lefties that are celebrating - it's anybody with the power to think rationally.

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  DFO on June 03 at 12:16 p.m.

  Hey, Shoshone Conservative; how do you like the avatar that I posted for you? Now, if I could figure out what to do with Misc. and how to post something for Red Man. I've made several attempts to post something for Red Man. But something in the blogware is gumming up my efforts.

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  poolman on June 03 at 1:02 p.m.

  How does that work. Is that an actual job that pays a salary, “taking a new role with the American Family Association”? What specific function does the AFA have? No – what I really want to know is how they generate revenue. I wonder if there is a counter to that on the left or liberal side of the coin. If not, I think one is needed. I already have a name for it -The NAFA – (Normal American Family Association). I’m with NAFA and I would like to have an invigorating conversation with you about sports, science, the works of Michener, European swim fashion – whatever gets your blood pumping. What, you’d rather talk about obscure Bible scriptures, abortion, fetus souls, divorce law….? Sorry - you belong with those AFA guys – not us. Just don’t forget your checkbook – B Fischer isn’t cheap.

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  Cabbage Boy on June 03 at 1:19 p.m.

  Sis wrote
  “Spare me Kage. If its God's law he violated then let Him judge the good doctor. {emphasis] But you and your people incite this kind of violence {/emphasis} by your continued reference to murder. 'Murder' is a legal term that has no application here. But you guys need to have a little more self reflection and study your Bible for guidance which I believe says to judge not.”

  Sis, your line which I emphasized seems to incite hate, maybe you should study your law books for guidance.

  @Toad, nah, I am busy enough slaying dragons here on HBO. I don't have time for the king sized ones of southern Idaho.

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  Cabbage Boy on June 03 at 1:19 p.m.

  I do appreciate the compliment tho, Toad.

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  Sisyphus on June 03 at 1:22 p.m.

  poolman, you have no idea. I was involved in some litigation pertaining to ownership of some Christian broadcasting stations a primary hub of which is in southern Idaho. There are multitudes of stations spreading the word of GAWD and Republican talking points, asking and receiving millions of dollars annually and living that great tax exempt lifestyle, in this case out of Palm Springs. One blogger who must not be named described Bryan's departure thusly:

  “Idaho got lucky to rid itself of this shyster. Think of all the grandmas and grampas who can stop eating liver chunk Alpo and Top Ramen and start eating real food again without Fischer trying to chum for donations from confused senior citizens.”

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  Gregor_Samsa on June 03 at 1:37 p.m.

  *Still waiting for our resident bleeding hearts to express the same outrage about the “politically and religiously motivated” killing of our two soldiers.*

  I'm outraged it's open season on either kind of babykiller. This is a nation of laws.

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  poolman on June 03 at 1:43 p.m.

  Sis - That is priceless!

  Selling God has always made good business sense - pure tax free profit. I wonder what God would think about these “shysters” exploiting old people and taking their social security checks.
  

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  spokelooneh on June 03 at 3:37 p.m.

  “Selling God has always made good business sense - pure tax free profit.”
  -poolman

  It's not unlike the illegal drug business, pure tax free as well (except for the bribes).

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  spokelooneh on June 03 at 3:45 p.m.

  Tell me that this was a case of “murder”:

  “”Sometime early in the 8th month my wife, an RN who at the time was working in an infertility clinic asked the Dr. she was working for what he thought of her discomfort. He examined her and said that he couldn’t be certain but thought that she might be having twins. We were thrilled and couldn’t wait to get a new sonogram that hopefully would confirm his thoughts. Two days later our joy was turned to unspeakable sadness when the new sonogram showed conjoined twins. Conjoined twins alone is not what was so difficult but the way they were joined meant that at best only one child would survive the surgery to separate them and the survivor would more than likely live a brief and painful life filled with surgery and organ transplants. We were advised that our options were to deliver into the world a child who’s life would be filled with horrible pain and suffering or fly out to Wichita Kansas and to terminate the pregnancy under the direction of Dr. George Tiller.”
  (continues):

  http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidi…

  Not to mention the lives of thousands of women who would have died in childbirth were it not for Dr. Tiller saving their lives in a heart-wrenching situation.

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  ShoshoneConservative on June 03 at 4:31 p.m.

  DFO:

  I was wondering where the avatar came from. I always did admire Newt's political prowess - he and Clinton were worthy adversaries, but Newt's fiscal conservatism combined with Clinton's pragmatism did allow for unprecedented economic growth, even when the President and Congress were, often, at loggerheads. Now, we have more of a “Jimmy Carter-Bob Michel” dynamic, than a “Bill Clinton - Newt Gingrich” dymanic in government, but I digress…

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  Kage_Mann on June 03 at 4:47 p.m.

  spokelooneh, He killed 60,000 during his reign, since 1973.Very few of his abortions had good intentions or stories like the one you present.Why try to sugarcoat the story. Sure when the life of the mother is at risk or there was incest then maybe, abortion would be an option IMO.

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  ShoshoneConservative on June 03 at 4:50 p.m.

  On topic - one thing that sort of makes me wonder…

  It is supposed to be the “Idaho Values ALLIANCE”, and the Idaho affiliate of the American Family Association, or something like that, which leads one to believe that it is some sort of organization. If that was truly the case, wouldn't another member step up to the plate and run it after Fischer's departure, rather than the IVA going dormant? That sort of tells me it wasn't an “alliance,” “association,” or “organization,” but, simply, “Bryan Fischer” himself.

  Again, he seems to have, obviously, been somewhat influential, but I still don't think he's the conservative “guru” the left seems to be making him out to be…

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  spokelooneh on June 03 at 8:59 p.m.

  Kage, you know NOTHING about the circumstances of those abortions, whether the mothers life was at stake, the fetus's were not viable, or any damn thing else about this.

  To equate the cold blooded pre-meditated MURDER of Dr. Tiller, in front of his wife, and his church, with the LEGAL abortions he did, and the lives of his patients saved, is criminally insane and deeply depraved.

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  richard on June 03 at 11:08 p.m.

  Actually, Paul McHugh, MD phsychiatrist reviewed Tiller's records and testified that there were, in his professional opinion, many, many instances of Tiller performing late term abortions for obvious invalid and illegal reasons … for the convenience of the woman!

  Those are facts! Whether anyone dislikes them or not. And facts are always more reliable than rants!

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  spokelooneh on June 03 at 11:29 p.m.

  Anybody else remember a certain somebody who was always bleating FACTS!

  Same deal here. Only it's Richard.

  Dr. Paul McHugh is a Catholic who claims that Catholic priests weren't raping little and adolescent boys. He's the scum of the earth in defending this child-rapists.

  “At least eight men have been convicted of sexually abusing Maryland children while under treatment at the “sex disorders” clinic McHugh runs at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine — abuse the doctors did not report, citing client confidentiality. When Maryland law was changed to require that doctors report child molestation, the clinic fought it and advised patients on how to get around the law. The memo to patients suggested that molesters report their pedophilic activities to their lawyers, who could in turn tell staff; attorney-client privilege would then protect the molesters from being reported. This memo was fully approved by the boss — Dr. Paul McHugh,…

  The victims of molester priests may wonder whose best interests McHugh actually has at heart, and that cannot be a plus for the council.”
  http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article…

  Figures that someone who defends child-raping priests would be defaming Dr. Tiller.

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  Cabbage Boy on June 04 at 7:34 a.m.

  Spookaloon, your attempts to humanize and defend the killing of babies is rather disturbing. I can understand anger at his unjustified murder. But defending his work as compassionate and life saving for 1000s of women is sickening.

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  Phaedrus on June 04 at 7:37 a.m.

  “in his professional opinion”

  “Those are facts!”

  No Richard, they are opinions.

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  Arch_Druid on June 04 at 8:02 a.m.

  Cabbage Boy, the “outrage” would be acceptable but for one problem, Dr. Tiller was once a fetus. Rendering a judgment on his life as you continually insist on doing, is to argue that at least in Tiller's case, he should never have been born. If he had never been born, then he could never make the decision to enter into the sort of profession that would ultimately give you heartburn.

  Where you make that decision to judge Tiller's life (and how do you know that all those “fetal souls” lost were solely based on the “convenience of the woman”) you also reserve the right to judge ANY OTHER CHILD who WAS brought into the world. CB, a child would have to be born to make the decisions that are ultimately upsetting you.

  And isn't that exactly the argument that you initially offer, the child MUST be born? But then you turn around and pass judgment on the life actually lived. You can't have it both ways. There is another commandment, CB besides thou shalt not kill. It is, thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. You sure seem to have no problem breaking THAT commandment with every breath. Look it up, CB, you will find it plus its explanation in Exodus.

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  Cabbage Boy on June 04 at 8:32 a.m.

  @Arch

  ???

  What are you talking about? I do NOT take the name of the Lord in vain. I may swear and use some vulgar words on occasion, but taking the name of the Lord in vain with every breath? Some days you are out there a bit, and then there is this statement.

  As far as your Tiller fetus comments, not sure where that goes or comes. But I haven't been rendering a judgment on his life. Just commenting on the abortions he has performed. But then, you would know about judging a persons intentions quite well.

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  Kage_Mann on June 04 at 8:50 a.m.

  It galls me when people are so selfish, as to terminate a life they helped to create; for convenience sake.People are allowed the free will to mess around and then to terminate a life
  with no repercussions.Maybe, if abortion were illegal by law, people would act more responsibly in making some of their decisions.

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  BlueinIdaho on June 04 at 8:57 a.m.

  Accck! Kage, do you ever read history books???! Abortion was illegal, but women still managed to have it performed, with great risks. Abortions are going down, not up. They are legal and should continue to be. Instead of slandering a dead man perhaps we could all put our energies into figuring out how to reduce the number of UNWANTED PREGNANCIES. That is the true problem…but we're all too busy judging a dead man and a woman who has a litter of kids.

  But back to Fisher: Thank you for leaving. The state of Idaho is better off.

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  Sisyphus on June 04 at 9:24 a.m.

  Speaking of opinions, its your opinion, CB, that abortion is equivalent to killing babies, and you seek to enforce your opinion through the power of government on every woman in the U.S. I find that supremely arrogant and hypocritical from one who rails against increasing the size of government. Back when abortion was illegal women died through backroom abortions cause it was illegal for doctors to even discuss the option with their patients forcing these women underground to get information and even medical care from less than credible sources. Yet you and people with whom you sympathize get all up in the faces of people facing very hard and very personal choices in their lives because you couldn't face the prospect of that choice yourself. Not only that the pattern of verbal and violent intimidation on the medical profession has rendered what should be a quick discussion one fraught with peril. I will defend Dr. Tiller and others who continue to provide professional medical care in face of this ignorant and arrogant onslaught. I can't think of anything more dehumanizing than killing a man over a personal disagreement.

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  Cabbage Boy on June 04 at 9:31 a.m.

  Sis, most of your post is mind numbingly typical bland tripe, but as to the size of government issue, say what?

  Have I ever sought to enforce my opinion through the federal government? Nice try. Don't lump me in with Fischer, I disagree with his approach as much as you do.

  I am for getting the judges out of the business of making laws. States rights, remember? You can stick me with that one, but not the “hypocrisy” label.

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