Huckleberries Online

My 2 Cents: Where We Go From Here

Posted by DFO

March 2, 2009 9:48 a.m. • 149 comments

I’m grateful for all the Berry Pickers who took time out from a sunny Saturday to make Blogfest ‘09 successful. I needed it more than anyone else. It’s easy to lose focus re: what goes on here, when you’re trying to ride herd on individuals who treat the Huckleberries Online comments section as their personal kitty-litter box. Blogfest ‘09 was a reminder that we’ve built a unique online community that knows no circulation boundaries. Or political, religious or social boundaries. I’m thrilled that this is a place where a witch with a gun, a gay man who used to work in a mortuary, a curmudgeonly seventysomething former lawmaker, a gentle Buddhist who gives away sticks, city council members, among others, relish one another’s company so much that they’re lobbying for more than one get together per year. And they seem to accept as blogmeister an Evangelical Christian who once thought George Bush was the cat’s meow. The cameraderie at Moon Dollars (a wunnerful new place in Post Falls to hold small and medium-size private gatherings) reinforced my decision to rein things in here and return to Huckleberries to its roots as a North Idaho regional blog. More below.

After the big November 2007 layoffs at the newspaper, I made a private decision to take Huckleberries statewide in an effort to replace readers that I figured I’d lose as a result of fewer reporters to feed me breaking news. The move, I believe, stopped the fall in HBO page-views and may be responsible for an uptick that boosted the total for the year to around 2.55 million page-views. But that expansion may have created a monster that drove this blog sideways during the 2008 presidential campaign when the main comments thread became a 24/7 ideological shouting match that drove many to cover. I’ve been trying to rein the comments thread in since.

The switchover to the new blogware before Christmas cost HBO thousands of page-views per day. At one point, the blog was down 40 percent. Now, that number has been shaved to 20 percent. Which still means that HBO will hit about 2 million page-views for the year. I can easily live with that. When I moved to crack down on the blog flame wars a few weeks ago, I did so holding my breath. I wasn’t sure how people would react to the loss of HBO’s most prominent commenter. As a result, two other commenters left and the comments thread seemed a bit flat for awhile. I hold no ill will for any of them, or two others who were coolered last fall. Interestingly, my page-view numbers not only didn’t drop but there has been a slight uptick. Also, commenters I haven’t seen here in months, if not years, have returned.

All of which underscores my belief that I did the right thing. Frankly, I had little choice b/c I decided I wasn’t going to spend the last years of my journalism career, refereeing a cyber free-for-all. The response, which was emphasized by applause at blogfest when I said I will never allow this blog to be controlled by flamers again — right wing or left wing — has prompted me to think about changes here. Not wholesale changes. The model, which emphasizes news roundups and commentary on Idaho issues, works. I plan to schedule a coupla think sessions this month to figure out what I can do with limited newsroom help to bring Huckleberries back to a more focused North Idaho blog. As a starter, I plan to shine a spotlight even more brightly on my North Idaho blogroll. Beginning today, I will link to worthy, new material from the entire HBO Blogosphere daily, not just half of the blogroll.

As always, I’ll need your input via your blogs or the comments section to keep things interesting here. I don’t know how many more years I’ll be doing this. Five years online doing something like Huckleberries must be the equivalent of 50 human years. I had far fewer gray hairs when I started. Last month, for the first time, I found myself questioning whether I made the right decision when I started this blog — such was my displeasure over the way things were going in the comments thread. However, Blogfest ‘09 helped me regain perspective and begin delighting again in the special online place that Huckleberries has become. I’ve ranted long enough. As always, I thank you for checking in here. And encourage you to fasten your seatbelts because the ride isn’t over …

149 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

Frum Helen Back on March 02 at 10:33 a.m.
I did not bring my gun! I left it in the car.
Kage_Mann on March 02 at 11:05 a.m.
“I don’t know how many more years I’ll be doing this”.

My guess is until you turn 67.5 when you qualify for Social Security?

You had no choice but, to rein in commenters who attack and insult others.Would HBO die, if DFO left?
Sisyphus on March 02 at 11:23 a.m.
“I hold no ill will for any of them”—really? What happened to 43sb on the blog roll then? All I did was check out for a while out of disgust and all of a sudden I’m one of the flamers.
JeanC on March 02 at 11:51 a.m.
Change always causes some people to leave and others to come back. I love this place and am looking forward to stick around for years to come :D
toadman on March 02 at 11:57 a.m.
For me, tone of voice is everything. I never like debating with someone who sounds/writes in a confrontational manner. They can disagree with me, fine, just do it in a kind manner…I try to do the same. For me, it’s a matter of respect for a fellow human being, no matter now insane I believe their point of view to be.

Still, nobody’s perfect. I make mistakes, and lash out from time to time, as we all do, and say stupid things. Latitude for infrequent rants is one thing, a person who rants continually, however, is usually just ignored by me.
DFO on March 02 at 12:01 p.m.
Sisyphus; if there’s ill will, it’s fairly certain that it’s leveled by 43rd State Blues at Huckleberries Online and me. Not vice versa. Your post @ Tubob’s calling me a “two-face, mean-spirited a$$hole” didn’t smack of goodwill. I’d be foolish to promote a Web site that increasingly bashes this site and me — and has done nothing to promote HBO other than drive some traffic here as readers determine for themselves if I’m the conservative ogre that unhinged Binky Boy paints me to be. I don’t consider you to be one of the flamers. You’ve been able to keep it between the lines here, with my coaxing. You’re welcome to continue to post here. But you need to take the chip of your shoulder. You’ve taken a coupla shots at me in the last coupla days. I can take more. But it’s revealing of a side of you that’s not flattering to most of us who want to move on.
moscow_minidoka on March 02 at 12:04 p.m.
I love this place, but in all honesty - I’m not really interested in a Huckleberries without Sisyphus and Bob - especially with DFO’s new BFF Kage_Mann filling the space.

That’s not a dig against Kage_Mann… I don’t want him/her gone, either. I just want Bob and Sisyphus here along with Kage, hmoff, etc.

Without Bob and Sisyphus, HBO is all yin and no yang. Or the other way around.

We can all be polite, and we can all make mistakes at time. But I feel the tone has really changed the past few weeks, and not in a good way. Again, it’s not right vs left… it’s the simple “is this interesting” factor. The same boring political arguments are being hashed out, but the interesting factor has evaporated.

Meh. Hijacking threads and personal insults are one thing (and shouldn’t be tolerated), but making this blog as tame and safe as the Northwest Section of the SR means it’s going to become… boring.
Cindy_H on March 02 at 12:16 p.m.
I miss your comments, Sis. I appreciate your level-headed responses and valiant attempts to reason with those who really don’t want to be reasoned with. You’re not a one-note wonder and can be playful, which is what makes HBO a fun place. The comment DFO refers to above really surprised me.

I consider HBO a great place to visit and just like when I visit someone else’s home, I take note of the rules. If shoes are to be removed at the door, I take off my shoes. If I’m offered jellied eel, I just say no thank you and fill up on the mixed nuts.

What I’m trying to say is I honestly think there’s a place here for everyone who wants to visit. The only mistake made is when guests forget they’re guests, insult their host, yell about the rules and insist on stomping through the living room wearing muddy boots. You might can do that in your own home, but not someone elses.
Joker on March 02 at 12:17 p.m.
Moscow,

I disagree the blog is boring because some have huffed off into cyberspace. A year from now, you will be saying, “who was that guy who stomped off…”
toadman on March 02 at 12:28 p.m.
Joker, that may be true for some.. but to others, like myself, things that have happened around here over the past two months will have a lasting effect on how we deal with people online, and how we interact here on HBO…and also, for many of us, we are saddened to see people go away, no matter who they are.

I, for one, will miss having Bob, Sis, and Thom around here, though they may be rough around the edges, upset some, and scurry off into rants more often than they probably should. In fact, though I may have disagreed with some of their tactics, and not engaged with the loyal opposition in the same manner as they, I say again, that I’ll miss their witty writing and quick hammer hatchet rhetoric.

As one of the original “left bankers” myself, it’s a hard duty to maintain the banner they once held so high. I don’t know if I’m up to the task. In fact, I know I’m not. Therefore, I’ll continue to be that “liberal toad guy,” but I’m not promising fireworks of any kind. That’s just not how I roll.
Me on March 02 at 12:29 p.m.
I would LOVE Bob and Sis back, but do they really not see what they do sometimes? When they personally attack and call people who disagree with them idiots, morons, etc why don’t they see it?

I would love them to be here, debate the issues, and NOT call us all idiots. I love the back and forth they bring - until it goes way south and then I’m out.
JBelle on March 02 at 12:35 p.m.
hey Sis, This might not be the best time to tell you this but I offer it in the spirit of contemplation and full disclosure. When you thought I was new here, you jumped on me pretty hard. You roughed me up pretty good, unfairly, and stood back, folded your arms in the whacha gonna do about it stance; my friend ThomG called you off and you stood down. And down you stayed from that time on. I have no doubt you do not remember this because I was posting under another name—one Thom recognized. Posting as JBelle, I have never been victim to anything less less than your respect and your courtesy. You can bring it, Sis, when it’s not deserved and it’s not indicated. Maybe if you can figure out a way to own even a little piece of what’s in the air now you can find a way to stay. Because you’ve got friends here. As does Thom.
nic on March 02 at 12:49 p.m.
I’m not really interested in a Huckleberries without Sisyphus and Bob - especially with DFO’s new BFF Kage_Mann filling the space.

MM - just do what I do - ignore him. Granted, you may have to skip 30% of the comments here… but…
Joker on March 02 at 12:56 p.m.
Everybody has choices in life. DFO said, “No insults. Period.”

Why is that so hard to live by? I guess you’ll have to ask those who have chosen to leave.

I can’t believe people arguing to bring insults back to the forum Simply amazing.
toadman on March 02 at 1:00 p.m.
Can we insult ourselves?

Cuz I can think of one ‘effin Toad who won’t STFU if you know what I mean.. what a tool that dude is…

;-)
Cindy_H on March 02 at 1:00 p.m.
Joker: Please point out who asked that insults be brought back to the forum.
I generally read for comprehension quite well, but for some reason I’m finding your assertion rather incomprehensible.
JBelle on March 02 at 1:05 p.m.
I don’t know about that! See? I like that Toad dude, and Sis, and Joker and…(big deep breath here) KAGE MANN and I really, really like hmoffsuite and Gary Ingram. I like it when that Toad guy will not stfu. and I luv his avatar!

‘cause in the end, dude, that’s all that left. love.
MamaJD on March 02 at 1:13 p.m.
I’m beginning to believe this group needs a weekend retreat with a ropes course and a blindfolded trust walk. The climax would then be Kage crying and telling us how much he loves us as he lets go of some deeply held emotions. We then could hug all this out around a campfire while Stickman works on his sticks. Or maybe we can just pretend.

Kumbaya, people.
Joker on March 02 at 1:13 p.m.
Ok, Cindy,

Folks on here are lovingly speaking of certain individuals with phrases like “rough around the edges” and going off on rants. Translation: insults, attacks, putdowns, stereotypes…

Go back and read what those guys did to anybody who disagreed with them, before I arrived. Anybody of a conservative bent got ripped a new one. One individual continually protrayed North Idaho as a racist den of hillbillies. Awww that’s so cute.

These guys were bullies. If they liked you, you were in the gravy. If they didn’t agree with you, look out.

I think I showed everybody here what happens when you challenge a bully. They scurried away and haven’t been back.

Of course, I know I am hated for exposing them and supposedly running them offf. Fine I can live with that. Since then, I haven’t gone beserk on anyone, called them a moron, or an idiot, even when I disagree with them. So tell me, who is the problem?
Kage_Mann on March 02 at 1:13 p.m.
‘cause in the end, dude, that’s all that left. love.JBelle on March 02 at 1:05 p.m.

Ok, group hug! ;-)
florined on March 02 at 1:13 p.m.
Pop quiz.

Take out a sheet of paper, class, and as you read each of the choices below, indicate which of the pair best nourishes a combination of mutual respect, open expression of opinion, and logical argument. If you don’t like either, feel free to offer an alternative “C” Extra points (subjectively assigned. No griping; this is MY quiz.) for classiness and/or good humor.

Pair 1
A. Yes, I agree that your point has to be considered, but on the other hand…
B. Well, as usual, you’re spewing your ridiculous, hair-brained crap and expecting intelligent people to listen.

Pair 2
A. You’ve stated this before but I can find nothing to support your stance and I DO find much that contradicts it. For example, see…
B. Look, stupid, why don’t you and your cronies go spout your idiocy somewhere else?

Pair 3
A. I’ve lived here longer than you have. Ergo, my opinion is worth more than yours.
B. hmm…that’s a tempting approach, isn’t it? However, when it was tried several years ago, it caused more problems than it solved.

Uh oh…there’s the bell. Your assignment for tomorr….
JBelle on March 02 at 1:17 p.m.
ok. But florine gets MamaJD’s hug!
Kage_Mann on March 02 at 1:18 p.m.
MamaJD, I love your comment! (((sniffles))) ;-)
JBelle on March 02 at 1:20 p.m.
See? I didn’t like it, Kage. She needs to eat a popsicle. With sugar. ;p
Sam on March 02 at 1:26 p.m.
Hi, second day back and I’m hoping that I can start a fight or get coolered.

Can anyone show me some type of pamphlet on that or something?
Cindy_H on March 02 at 1:27 p.m.
((Florine)) I love pop quizzes!

And Joker you still didn’t show that anyone asked for the return of insults. Just for the return of those who have been insulting. A subtle difference to be sure :-)
And I’d like to point out that not one person wore an “I HATE JOKER” t-shirt to blogfest. Not one. Didn’t you notice?
Sisyphus on March 02 at 1:27 p.m.
Sorry, DFO I’d been stewing for awhile and it came out. Cathartic but not nice. Although I’d be glad to prove it up, I don’t think most are of a mind to listen and therefore its pointless. Its also divisive and for the same reason people here would rather avoid it. I really don’t have the desire to get them interested nor do I blame them. I think you mistreated Thom and I hope you contemplate an apology for him since he’s never been shy in either providing his opinion or in standing behind it in this or the real world. Since this is a foremost a community blog I’m rather astonished that you would allow that to happen to one of your own. You are correct that my blogmates don’t care much for your ‘moderation’. I had hoped to be the bridge.

I’m sorry you thought I was rude Cindy. I was merely clamoring for fairness and that was not even for myself. And I warned against specific tactics that have destroyed other blogs. But in one respect I’ve never disagreed, its not my blog, but it sure ain’t inviting. Indeed one of the best things about this place used to be the even handed way Dave administered justice. You’ve never seen me condemn DFO for Bob’s past transgressions. Bob above all knows when he pushes the limits. It seems to be a game between them. I don’t blame Dave for wearying of the game.

As with anything divisive, it takes two to tango. Absent from this analysis is the other dance partner who is hardly blameless. Dave chose sides. I was content in acting Dave’s liberal monkey for his pejorative posts. I don’t feel so playful anymore.
florined on March 02 at 1:28 p.m.
Sam, see above.

Wonderful to meet your mom, btw.
Cindy_H on March 02 at 1:33 p.m.
Oh, Sam. Just be yourself. You’ll be in the cooler in no time.

*The above remark was NOT intended as an insult, but a friendly jibe to my long-missed blog buddy Sam. Jibs and jabs among blog buddies are acceptable. See page 59, section 109, paragraph 7 in the new HBO Blog Rules for Dummies handbook*

**Dummy when used in the title of a book is NOT an insult**
toadman on March 02 at 1:37 p.m.
For the record, I will not be sitting around a campfire working on my stick.
DFO on March 02 at 1:42 p.m.
Sisyphus; you choose to believe the lie that I sicked the Joker on ThomG. I didn’t. But you can believe what you want. I neither have the time or inclination to try to persuade you otherwise. Also, I’m told (but I haven’t checked this out for myself b/c … ah … I can’t find a link to 43rd State Blues ;-) … that you continue to think that I’m the Joker. I’m not. Anyone who knows anything re: writing styles can figure that out. Again, however, you can believe what you want. As far as ThomG goes, he won’t get an apology from me any time in the near future. But he might get a few phone calls from friends who believe he’s gone off the deep end re: his increasingly caustic comments here. If I blame you for anything, Sisyphus, it’s for slipping ThomG some of the 43rd State Blues Kool-aid, transforming him from a Merry Huckster with a razor-sharp wit and Photo-shopping ability into an angry ideologue. We want the real ThomG back. You can keep the one you’ve been hanging out with at Eye On Boise.
florined on March 02 at 1:42 p.m.
uh, Cindy, that particular “Dummies” book wasn’t devised by a frequent poster on a different blog, was it?
Sisyphus on March 02 at 1:43 p.m.
You are correct jBelle, I don’t recall that circumstance. All I have to go by are words people write. Now while I may have jumped to a conclusion from your words, Thom has earned my respect and I listen to what Thom says. And jBelle has earned my respect because of what she writes. When someone calls me on something I listen and grapple. I acknowledge when I’m wrong. But sock puppetry is precisely one of the tactics I’m railing against here. If I wanna be toyed with, I’ll get a cat. What’s with all the frickin’ games? And how did I end up on trial?
DFO on March 02 at 1:43 p.m.
Sam; I was rather hoping to toss Kage Mann in the cooler next. Not you. Just because …
Cindy_H on March 02 at 1:43 p.m.
Of course not silly. You’re in charge of weenie roasting. We already voted on it at Blogfest.
And of course you can’t be too careful around a campfire.
Digger and I will be interviewing volunteer firemen, soon.
Cindy_H on March 02 at 1:46 p.m.
The above remark was addressed to Toad.
Geez, you folks are committing comment quickies at the speed of light.
PDXPup on March 02 at 1:46 p.m.
wow. easy everyone. i’m working on a team-building exercise for my u13 girls team. i’d happily transpose it over here if i thought it would help.

Mark Twain once wrote “”The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane.”
keithincda on March 02 at 1:47 p.m.
How to start your blogging day with a positive outlook

Open a new file in your PC.

Name it as the person you detest the most from HBO. This can be done more than once per day if necessary.
Send it to the RECYCLE BIN.
Empty the RECYCLE BIN.
Your PC will ask you, “Are you sure you want to delete “name of person you entered” permanently?”
Answer calmly, “Yes,” and press the mouse button firmly….

Feel better? Have A Nice Day.
Cindy_H on March 02 at 1:49 p.m.
Florine: No, I think the book you’re referring to is: How to Host the Most Boring Blog in the Universe While Patting Yourself on the Back for Dummies.”
toadman on March 02 at 1:56 p.m.
Hey CindyH.. that’s the book I read when I started my blog.. so far, it’s working exactly as expected!
Sisyphus on March 02 at 1:57 p.m.
No Dave, we don’t need to go there. But you didn’t stop Joker when he violated your own rules. And Thom’s been at 43sb longer than I. Thom’s no different than when we stumbled into each other. Its interesting that you accuse us of changing when you stated you were changing this place. We didn’t change.

Funny how I can be described as level headed and rational and a hot headed ideologue all in one thread.
Kage_Mann on March 02 at 1:59 p.m.
DFO on March 02 at 1:43 p.m.

Sam; I was rather hoping to toss Kage Mann in the cooler next. Not you. Just because …

DFO, you need to post a smiley face on light-hearted posts. ;-)
Sam on March 02 at 2:00 p.m.
I will admit I’ve always been hesitant as DFO tries to reign this place in. I write in a blunt style with a certain terse staccato that I think is only a reflection of my training as a journalist. Sometimes what I write here has been misinterpreted to be harsher than I meant it. Other times the words I say aren’t misinterpreted at all.

One concern I’ve had, and I’ve gotten into an argument with DFO about it, was him reigning it in and if you tried to engage in conversation about it, even politely, you’d get blasted for offering up those thoughts. It was unfortunate and I even got threatened with a cooler ride, not even having insulted anyone, merely speaking up. I didn’t really dig that at all, but I just stopped chatting about it.

Running a political blog myself for a newspaper I completely understand how harsh it can get and having to deal with a diverse group of people with conflicting opinions of pretty much everything on the planet. In the end I also subscribe to the rule of “my blog, my rules” but I really have only ever had to adopt that stance not with people who simply offer up their differing opinion of an action I’ve taken but with those who offer up “Sam is an idiot” or some similar statement where they endlessly berate and call names, even if asked to stop.

That’s not constructive.

When I’m on this blog I try to be nothing more than constructive and engage in discussions with people merely to have conversation. As a journalist I don’t generally offer up my opinions on anything, unless of course the topic is journalism in general, as I think a journalist can participate in an enlightened conversation on the topic.

DFO has the fantastic, yet sometimes unenviable task, of being in the middle and trying to ensure that his community can last, and that people aren’t unnecessarily run off. It is his style that I have specifically tried to emulate on the blog I run, too, so I empathize. I think he does a great job on here and five years is an insane amount of time in Internet Years to continue something like this on such a large but intimate scale. I don’t know of another blog for a daily newspaper that has this type of impact and reach into a community or with people that feel as if they have some type of ownership in all of it (and thus the reason why many of the fights occur around here). That’s what makes this place special.

My blog is specifically geared for politics, so I’m used to constant back and forth of political ideology. That is, after all, the point. But sometimes I just really hope and wish I could post on other topics that don’t end in the sometimes-nastiness of it all. And that’s what, I think, people here have longed for as well. They want some peace and quiet every so often just to enjoy each others’ company and chat without being berated or e-attacked merely because someone else has no idea how to play well with others. If the community at large can’t restrain that person, then it is up to the blog author to reign them in as he sees fit based on a case-by-case basis.

Really, I think people are lucky to have this place. The discussions are crucial to community dialogue and no one person should ever have the microphone consistently more than others. That’s a karaoke sin of immense magnitude that not even I can tolerate. It is unfortunate to hear that Thom and Bob aren’t here (and I hope Sis can consider staying past even the argument he’s having now). I was really sad to hear about that from Truly before I came back here. I definitely think it won’t be the same without them here. And I have no solution for it. But communities are shifting things and this is part of our own Berry drama.

Now, having said all that … you can all go boil your bottoms, you sons of silly persons!
Sam on March 02 at 2:03 p.m.
By the by, I still believe this whole “Dave is trying to turn this into a right-wing rag” rant utterly pointless and wrong. Both sides accuse him of being the opposite, so which is it?

In reality, he’s posting things that he thinks people will be interested in discussing, and people - via their own personal opinion filters - equate that posting with his agreement on the issue.

That’s nonsense and people should get a grip. I deal with the same thing on my blog, too. I can’t post anything that might be critical of either side without them attacking me for either being a liberal or a corporate hack.

Sigh.
JeanieSpokane on March 02 at 2:06 p.m.
Keith - what a wonderful idea. I have a couple ex-boyfriends in mind. Hey! I can do that with other things like “your fat” - imagine how freeing that will be when I delete it. got to go… . I have a lot of files to delete.
Cindy_H on March 02 at 2:12 p.m.
I think we’ve all learned something here today.
I discovered Sis is a level headed, rational, hot head ideologue who never changes. Toad isn’t ashamed to admit he reads books for Dummies. MamaJD is planning our HBO team-building retreat with help from PDXPup.
And I learned that when I follow Keith’s instructions and delete myself, I feel really, really sad.
keithincda on March 02 at 2:14 p.m.
Jeanie–-:)

CindyH–:(
Sisyphus on March 02 at 2:17 p.m.
No argument Sam. Merely venting. And as far as partisanship you only need go to Dave’s last comment to me to see evidence of it. And just yesterday he said that had nothing to do with it.
DFO on March 02 at 2:19 p.m.
Sam; your insights as a fellow newspaper blogger are much appreciated. I’m glad you’re back from your hiatus. This place wasn’t quite the same without you. BTW, I met Mother Dearest at the Blogfest Saturday. Wonderful woman. You come from good stock, kid.
Sisyphus on March 02 at 2:20 p.m.
Cindy I prefer passionate to hot head. ;-)

And I might just go boil me bum Sam. Speaking of which where’s Marmite?
bondgirl on March 02 at 2:39 p.m.
keithcda- I love your idea and it does work!!!! :)
Cabbage Boy on March 02 at 2:41 p.m.
Wow. What a thread.

Not gonna re-analyze the whole thing or put anyone on trial, but boy sis, are you outta line. :)

Kidding. Online personas are interesting. I for one don’t really miss some that others do. There are plenty of left-bankers here. They might not fly the flag as high, or be ready to run the razor wire, but they are left bankers for sure.

As an aside, one may ask, why they more caustic ones just can’t be happy? They won the election, control congress and the direction of the US. Or maybe that is it. Now their party is in power and they see the same traits as the party they just kicked out. That would be depressing, banking on all that change and hope and then getting feed the same crap as before.

Anyway, I hope davey’s little old blog keeps chugging. The value for me (aside from the wonderful community ((hugs))) is the local info. Local politics and those local politicos that comment here. They won’t stay if the razor runners call them hilbillies and worse just cuz they express their opinion on why the voted as they did.

So keep it up Dave. We can’t quit ya.
Me on March 02 at 2:44 p.m.
Sis - I think the difference that you see is this. DFO is heavy handed when people are called names, etc but he doesn’t delete say kage’s posts when you think he is being dumb - when he posts his opinion, but doesn’t have a link (a link that you consider a legitimate link) to support what he is saying.

To you those two things are the same - which is why you say he isn’t being fair?
marmitetoasty on March 02 at 2:46 p.m.
Marmites here, just trying to suss and sort out what the hell is going on over here……

x
Sisyphus on March 02 at 3:10 p.m.
Me, see this is just a common misunderstanding of which I commonly get thrown in the middle. Kage and hmoff as spokesmen for the right bothers me not one iota. Yes it bugs me when hmoff regurgitates talking points without reflection, or changes the subject instead of engaging, because I view those tactics as trollish. But they both represent perfect illustrations for me without even having to mention it. The last thing I want is to drive them away. Yet Dave was not so heavy handed when Joker called Thom out. Instead Dave green lighted Joker who proceeded on his intensely personal attack for a guy who operates under no pseudonym. Whether Dave and Joker are one and the same is irrelevant because that act gave Joker’s actions blog sanction. And I think it was unfair and wrong.

CB you a funny boy. Funny how you equate “caustic” with “Democrat”.

Marmite, its all being sorted. I just have to invoke your name when I see English idioms tossed about.
JaneQCitizen on March 02 at 3:10 p.m.
Sam the former intern just used two months worth of words stored up while he was in self-imposed exile in a single comment. Too bad there isn’t an award for that. :)
Cindy_H on March 02 at 3:12 p.m.
It can be arranged :-)
Frum Helen Back on March 02 at 3:26 p.m.
I hope you’re feeling a lot better today Marmie.
Cabbage Boy on March 02 at 3:30 p.m.
Sis, my “they’s” and what not didn’t convey my thought clearly. I stated, “the more caustic ones” and shouldn’t have said, “they won the election” but rather, “they party they believe in won the election.”

And JQC, I agree. He musta been dieing to let all those subjects, verbs and predicates spill onto the page. I thought there was a character limit. If not, I am in favor of one.
Cabbage Boy on March 02 at 3:31 p.m.
Boy, I don’t think my explanation helped CLEAR anything up. No sleep = poor thought process.
hmoffsuite on March 02 at 3:41 p.m.
Sis. >>> “Yes it bugs me when hmoff regurgitates talking points without reflection, or changes the subject instead of engaging, because I view those tactics as trollish.”

Hey Sis. Lets start with a clean slate and exchange some ideas, ok? We can start with all the broken promises Obama has accomplished. In only about a month. Staggering accomplishment.
DFO on March 02 at 3:47 p.m.
Sisyphus; this’ll be the last time I respond on your thread within a thread b/c you’re not willing to listen — and in the process you’re driving this sideways. If Joker took a personal shot at ThomG, it was the exception to the rule. As I recall, he focused on what he considered to be an inadequate local Demo Web site and the local D’s inability field candidates for a number of local races. Where is that personal? If you want to see personal and nasty, all you have to do is look at your site — or almost any day here at HBO last fall. Again, I’m trying to remember back 2 or 3 weeks here, I believe, the Joker was on Thom’s case for one day. One day. I actually gave Thom a chance to get a final lick in — and he responded by saying that he couldn’t decide whether to fire on Joker or me. I had hoped that the combatants would learn the lesson that it’s not so nice to be on the receiving end. Any HBOer who yearns for the return of the flame wars simply is someone who hasn’t been on the receiving end of this merde. I probably take more merde from you guys accumulatively than any of you do yourselves. Even with my thick skin, it doesn’t feel that good. So here’s the deal. You need to give it a rest. Or go off somewhere to continue your pout. You’ve been given plenty of space to vent today. it’s getting tiresome. You can be part of what we’re doing or not. It doesn’t matter to me.
hmoffsuite on March 02 at 3:50 p.m.
Sis. The only problem with these discussions we all have is that they don’t stop since everyone wants the final word. Drags out too long. Lets find us a ‘judge’ or two, on the blog to monitor the discussion and at some point, determine who had the best arguments and who effectively ‘won’ the debate. I’m not a Democrat. I am a Republican, and we like to play to win, not tie. Big differences in our ideology. So, lets get us a judge or two and have a discussion. Any volunteers out there. Sis, we both have to agree to the judge. I nominate Kage and Joker. :~)
toadman on March 02 at 3:54 p.m.
I can honestly say that I really don’t understand any of this. I don’t understand why so many people are getting their weenies in a wad over so much of this stuff.

This is sooo junior high.

Still, by the same token, it’s junior-high-ish to be “all up in someone’s face, yo” about stuff. If we can’t discuss things in a civil manner, then the terrorists will destroy us with our own hubris. It reminds me of a sign I once read. It read:

Welcome to our ‘ool. Notice there’s no “P” in it… we’d like to keep it that way.

Stop peeing on HBO. Just have a good time and if someone pisses you off, go take five in the hot tub on another thread. See? Easy as that.
Sam on March 02 at 3:56 p.m.
JQC and CB - I’m exercising my blogging rights!
toadman on March 02 at 4:00 p.m.
“There are plenty of left-bankers here. They might not fly the flag as high, or be ready to run the razor wire, but they are left bankers for sure.” - CB

Ooooh! Ooooh! He’s talking about me!! He’s talking about me! I just know it!!

I love being a token.

;-)

…that was a joke.. c’mon! Lighten up.
Sam on March 02 at 4:01 p.m.
I blow my nose at you, Toad, you pig dog!
hmoffsuite on March 02 at 4:01 p.m.
toad >> ” can honestly say that I really don’t understand any of this. I don’t”

It’s an intellectual exercise. We all heard that if you use it, you won’t lose it.
Cabbage Boy on March 02 at 4:07 p.m.
No Toad, you can’t be the Token Democrat, that moniker is already taken!

Sam, welcome back. Hope your spleen feels better now.
Cindy_H on March 02 at 4:10 p.m.
“I don’t understand why so many people are getting their weenies in a wad over so much of this stuff.”

But. Toad. Your vast knowlege of weenies is why you’re in charge of the roasting at the Blog Campout/Team Building event.
toadman on March 02 at 4:11 p.m.
“I blow my nose at you, Toad, you pig dog!” - Sam

That’s COMMUNIST pig dog, to you. Thanks. (nice Python references, by the way)

“It’s an intellectual exercise. We all heard that if you use it, you won’t lose it.” - HMO

Don’t hurt me, I’m sensitive. *sniff*

“No Toad, you can’t be the Token Democrat, that moniker is already taken!” - Cabbage

Can I be the token pinko commie pigdog? I love standing in line and eating cheese.. I really do. Actually, I suppose I’m more of a freegan than anything else.
Joker on March 02 at 4:13 p.m.
Holy cow people. I step away from my desk for a few hours and all heck breaks loose.

Toad, you rock.
Sisyphus on March 02 at 4:22 p.m.
Oh please Dave, that’s the second time you’ve belittled me in this thread. That certainly won’t achieve your objective. And neither is it consistent with your stated purpose. I do agree with this: “I probably take more merde from you guys accumulatively than any of you do yourselves.” Its the price of your fame and/or folly. The title of the post was where to go from here. My comments were directly to that topic. I’m not driving it sideways. And its “cumulatively”.

I’ve had my say and I’m done. I feel better. Is it too late to applaud Jane’s avatar? We have blogging rights, Sam?
toadman on March 02 at 4:24 p.m.
Sis.. don’t go.. seriously.. we can make this relationship work.

..mostly because Jane’s avatar is the stuff of legend.
Digger on March 02 at 4:25 p.m.
Can we simply say what everyone is thinking:

We don’t want Bob back. He has outlived his useful life on HBO and its time for new bloggers to shine.

Sis and ThomG can come back if they want but they need not start into a liberal version of Sean Hannity, foaming at the mouth about politics. Same goes for Joker and Kage_Mann.

Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative. Those labels should have no meaning on HBO, period. We are a family of bloggers who need to grow up and start having rational discussions about the topics presented.

What happened to the good ol days when a post about firefighter could garner 30 posts, all on topic?

I’ve made my thoughts clear to DFO and thats what matters. If Bob comes back then I go back into hiding and won’t contribute to the discussion. Plain. And. Simple.
Cabbage Boy on March 02 at 4:28 p.m.
Stuff of legends? Who is this Jane person and has she actually typed anything? I have seen the avatar many times but don’t recall any comment…
Joker on March 02 at 4:30 p.m.
Digger, baby, I am not a right wing ranter. I don’t believe in political parties, just parties
Sam on March 02 at 4:30 p.m.
No, Digger, you can’t say what “everyone” is thinking because not everyone is thinking that.

I want Bob back. I thoroughly enjoy Bob. So you’re wrong, and I’d thank you to please not speak for me.

And, coming from you, it’s utterly hilarious you’re talking about others foaming at the mouth. You’re the one who used to listen to recordings of Hannity and Limbaugh speeches and you kept clips on your computer. I sat in your apartment while you played some of them for me!

So, dude, you’re trying to be responsible again and all that and I appreciate your goal - asking for on topic, etc, but you’re putting words in people’s mouths.

Can’t you just speak for yourself?
toadman on March 02 at 4:33 p.m.
“Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative.”

Don’t forget SocialistPinkoCommiePigDog… I look good in gray.. really.. I’m totally a winter.
DFO on March 02 at 4:34 p.m.
My head’s beginning to throb. So much for the Blogfest ‘09 afterglow. But it was fun … wasn’t it, kids?
Cabbage Boy on March 02 at 4:35 p.m.
Wow Sam. You musta enjoyed those months in the self-imposed cooler. Don’t get personal. Digger offered an opinion. Nothing more.
hmoffsuite on March 02 at 4:35 p.m.
If I happened to be an ‘over the top liberal Democrat’, and I have been watching my man, Obama, and the job he was doing, I don’t think I would want to talk about it right now, either. (tongue in cheek) :~)
Cabbage Boy on March 02 at 4:36 p.m.
No it wasn’t Dave. I missed it. More than that, I missed free pizza.
Joker on March 02 at 4:40 p.m.
Whoa, can we leave being at people’s apartment’s out of it. Sure, I’ve been to Cindy’s place a few times, then I woke up, . let’s show some restraint.

BTW, who is this Bob guy? Everyone keeps talking about him like he was John Lennon.
Sisyphus on March 02 at 4:47 p.m.
I’m not the one lumping everyone into camps. Life is rarely that simple. My issue is only the one I addressed regarding fairness to Thom. While there are a few I won’t treat with, don’t nobody here bother me to that degree. Including Bob. Bob is gifted and writes as most of us can only dream but he can become overbearing in his commenting. We all have good and bad sides and I certainly see where that can be off putting. I noticed much more commentary from JBelle today and wondered why she was away so much. Perhaps it was pointless for her to try to get a word in edgewise and I acknowledge my own fault in that process. I’ll take it to heart. But Digger if you’re giving a choice between you and Bob, well, sorry dude. Fortunately for all of us the choice is apparently out of your hands although it may have some of your fingerprints.
Kage_Mann on March 02 at 4:51 p.m.
I guess Diggers saying that some of us are too opinionated when it comes to making comments on political threads. I happen to post comments on other threads also.

I’ve had people tell me that they won’t come on this blogsite as long as Bob’s on HBO.I don’t have a problem with him but, I’ve noticed he can’t sit still too long without stirring things up and that’s a problem DFO’s trying to cleanup now.
Joker on March 02 at 4:52 p.m.
Sis,

Amazing theories about how and why a certain individual is now in the cyber heavens. I noticed you never addressed DFO’s comments about my handling of your buddy ThomG. Why don’t you explain it to me why I was so intensely personal so I can learn. I thought it was a clinical debate.

(Digger, I got your back).
JaneQCitizen on March 02 at 5:04 p.m.
To the guy with the cabbage on his head avitar, “this Jane person” has typed lots of words here in the past five years. But ever since I changed into my swimsuit over the weekend it seems no one’s paying much attention to my intellectual reparte.
I think I can draw a conclusion or two about this social experiment regarding first impressions in the use of an avatar.
keithincda on March 02 at 5:10 p.m.
Yea! What they, er, JQC said…:0
Dennis on March 02 at 5:15 p.m.
As Mel Brooks in “Blazing Saddles” so affectionately said ––-” Hello Fellas,,,,,, I sure missed ya today”

;-O
Sam on March 02 at 5:17 p.m.
I have KILLED the afterglow.

Digger can write about everyone wanting me gone now, too. ;)
Me on March 02 at 5:18 p.m.
Oh and Joker - while I may be on the conservative side of many of the discussions here, I have NO glowing adoration for ‘how you handled ThomG’. You’ve said several times here lately how you chased someone off and are so proud of yourself because you did it but didn’t call names - so what? I don’t think ANYONE should have the goal of chasing people off.

You are just a little too full of yourself for my taste.
hmoffsuite on March 02 at 5:30 p.m.
joker >> “Why don’t you explain it to me why I was so intensely personal so I can learn. I thought it was a clinical debate.”

As best as I can recall, I think you brought Thom’s position with the Party into the discussion. In my mind, that is crossing the line. We all knew the deal, but it didn’t need to be said. jmho
JBelle on March 02 at 5:39 p.m.
Dennis: cracking up!!
Kage_Mann on March 02 at 6:05 p.m.
As one who was on the receiving end of an insulting ThomG rant, I applaud Joker.I asked ThomG why he was so vicious in his attacks of me and he said he didn’t know.Also, Sis said some insulting things about me and he was promptly, chastised by DFO as was Thom.

Yet, Sis still claims he’s innocent of everything and it’s all just a misunderstanding.Even called DFO out and suggested he apologize.He says he’s just a mediator trying to build a bridge of understanding.If the three in question can’t assume some responsibility for what has happened, then coming back won’t work out very well.
Sam on March 02 at 6:07 p.m.
Need a hug, Kage??
Kage_Mann on March 02 at 6:09 p.m.
Sam, after reading this thread, we all need a hug. ;-)
toadman on March 02 at 6:09 p.m.
Jane, I think what CB means is, well.. did you say something? I was distracted for a minute there…..
toadman on March 02 at 6:54 p.m.
Horse + Dead = Beaten.

I motion we end this thread. Any seconds?
Digger on March 02 at 7:15 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, the good gentleman from Toadland is out of order. I believe what the good gelteman is trying to request is that he make a motion to end the thread and I would ask unanimous consent for my colleauge to revise and extend his remarks and I would also second his motion.
Stickman on March 02 at 7:48 p.m.
Thanks FHB, for leaving your gun at the door.
cantyoureadthesigns on March 02 at 7:49 p.m.
Lowest Common Denominator.
Stickman on March 02 at 7:51 p.m.
Kage. Would Huckleberries die if DFO left , I doubt it. If Huckleberries would continue on without the one known as the Kage, of course.
Stickman on March 02 at 7:56 p.m.
Thanks Mama. you have what we all want. Thanks.
Stickman on March 02 at 7:59 p.m.
Sam: I would never start a fight, but i surely enjoyed the one known as Truly.
Stickman on March 02 at 8:01 p.m.
I left out a name recently, and I apoligize. Thanks Florine for coming and making my day.
Stickman on March 02 at 8:04 p.m.
Sam. I love the comments, though I would never be against the one known as Digger. Good to have you back, and the One known as Truly was truly a joy.
Digger on March 02 at 8:24 p.m.
DFO killed this post earlier - I’ve edited it and returned it now without reference to TUBOB and another blogger:

*****

First off, Sam, you have to realize that the Digger you knew 5 years ago (yes 5 years!) isn’t the Digger of today.

The Digger you first knew (that played you the Limbaugh and Hannity clips) was an in-the-closet, unhappy homsexual Republican who used politics to hide his real feelings. Even after I came out I still used them as a cover for other stuff I don’t care to discuss.

The Digger of today is a rather reasoned, middle of the road, caring kind of guy. I no longer listen to Hannity or Limbaugh or Savage. I can hardly stomach their crap. I’m probally more politically moderate now than I’ve ever been in my life - and FYI, I voted 85% Democrat in the 2008 election, including voting for Obama.

So spend some time talking to me on MSN before you purport to think that I’m still the same right winger that you knew back in our college days.

*****

Secondly, I will admit that Bob had his good moments on HBO. I enjoyed reading his posts out front and some of his witty comments about all things HBO and/or North Idaho. But I hated more than I liked.

This isn’t about his attacking my columns when they got front paged - I welcome the critisism. But there is a difference between saying “Dude, you were off topic” and going into a rant about me joining the legion of Fortier and Wilson.

I like Bob - I think he’s a good writer and can contribute to the discussion when properly directed. But hijacks and runaway threads seem to happen more when he’s around than when he’s not.
marmitetoasty on March 03 at 12:12 a.m.
Seems to be a lot of ‘lickie bum crawlers’ here :) lol

x
Sam on March 03 at 12:28 a.m.
Digger, I really don’t want to be harsh, because we’re friends, but I don’t personally believe you handle criticism well nor do I believe you’re that different. I don’t think I am, either. I have my opinion of your personality, and I was only gone for two months - not years. I don’t feel like there was some kind of epiphany. I also read your columns and I know they’re not always fact based. I’m trying not to be harsh about that, but we’ve had that discussion. Your columns are strictly opinion but the best columns are factual, not just rants, and that’s something you still need to work on. Take it from a fellow writer. Still, your opinion of Bob isn’t my issue. I fully and absolutely believe you have a right to your opinion of Bob. Lots of people have opinions of the dude. My issue is what you said first.

You have always been in this habit of making statements in a populist way because you think it will incite some type of mass agreement and awesomeness. But it’s never worked. Ever. And I just don’t like anyone ever saying that they’re speaking for me. So when you try to get into “I’m cool” mode I get bothered.

Yes, it’s my second day back here, but I’ve never been one to shy away from my thoughts on this. Digger I love you to death and we need to eat some lunch when I get over there, but dude, please don’t get into Megaopolis Mode, please. If you believe you’re reformed, neat, and I like you no matter what. I still don’t like your habit of trying to be liked by everyone for no reason. You’re you and that’s why I enjoy your company. And I’ll always say it out loud. Always have, always will.
Sam on March 03 at 12:30 a.m.
P.S.~ I find it extremely funny you are insulted by the Fortier/Wilson thing. Fortier is horrendous and always has been. I grew up with Wilson but he disowned me years ago. I personally don’t believe any paper of that size has any business with an entertainment beat when they could be covering real news, but whatever. I’ll leave it at that. It technically isn’t a full beat, so I guess that makes up for it. But that partial FTE could be used for, say cops and courts or some real government reporting.
Rosalind on March 03 at 12:34 a.m.
I’m definitely one of the ones who will appear more now that certain commenters are gone. But I do plan on skipping super long comments like some of the ones above. I’m looking forward to some fun opinion exchanges in the future!
Nick_Adams on March 03 at 12:45 a.m.
The fact is that the country faces a philosophical debate—conservative vs. liberal. The November elections, as well as the ‘06 elections, indicated that the country has chosen a liberal path (progressive, for my friends who are terrified of the liberal label).

Clearly, some of the posters here (and in Idaho overall) still believe in the conservative path—tax breaks, lower spending (except defense), restrictive social policies, etc. Others are embracing the liberal approach—wealth redistribution, increased government spending (except defense), inclusive social policies, etc.

The question is—will DFO allow this blog to reflect the Idaho bias or will he create an environment where all philosophies are welcome?

The liberals had their run up through the elections. Now, DFO favors more conservative viewpoints—certainly not surprising given his personal political touchpoints.

However, let us not forget his primary motivation—readership. He’ll no more let this blog degenerate into a morass of boring comments on firefighter photos, cutlines and talking point reguritation than he’ll let it become a safe-haven for personal agendas, name-calling and flame-wars.

I say let us keep playing the game.

Make DFO earn his money.
Arpie on March 03 at 6:56 a.m.
I’m going to take advantage of Diggers offer to allow me to revise and extend remarks by rposting what I wrote after blogfest:

First of all, it felt like everyone there was thankful for huckleberries and committed to the continued discourse it provides that is both like no other community and committed to the larger community in which we all live. It is definitely true that the things we share vastly outweigh our differences.

Secondly, the passion that our gracious host has for this monstrosity we have created and he has birthed was self-evident. One of the things discussed at more than two tables I sat at today was the future of journalism. While no one was able to do more than guess where it is heading, most agreed that if Huckleberries isn’t on the crest of the wave it is certainly among the mix of journalism’s next step. While Dave is many things, a big one of them is that he is a long time professional journalist. His instincts are sharp, and his heart is true. He realizes the importance of the voice his beast has given this community, and is ready to continue to shape and strengthen it. For that I am grateful.

It is obvious to me that DFO trusts his instincts after all these years. I do to.
brandxranch on March 03 at 7:44 a.m.
WOW! Don’t any of us sleep?? This has been amazing, a little hard to follow at times, but amazing. Can’t wait to see what this new day brings!!
JBelle on March 03 at 7:48 a.m.
Sam, Digger is really, really easy to like.
marmitetoasty on March 03 at 7:49 a.m.
Not all fireman posts are boring..

x
Sam on March 03 at 8:06 a.m.
Agreed, JBelle.
Stickman on March 03 at 8:58 a.m.
Toad: I’ll make the sticks, you guys sit around the fire and have meaningful conversations. I will listen and enjoy myself. The family has so many members that all think differently, but in the end, it’s the family that counts.

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About this blog

D.F. Oliveria is a columnist and blogger for The Spokesman-Review. Huckleberries Online was judged the best 2008 Idaho newspaper blog by the Idaho Press Club. And the best 2007 news blog in the Pacific Northwest by the Society for Professional Journalist. Print Huckleberries is a past winner of the Herb Caen Memorial Column contest by the National Association of Newspaper Columnists. The Readership Institute of Northwestern University cited this blog as a good example of online community journalism.