Tubbs Hill Tours To Be Allowed

45 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

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  JBelle on March 05 at 9:18 a.m.

  arrrrrrrrrrrrgh. NO. NO! NONONONONONONO!!! For the love of all that’s holy, no. please no.

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  Lynne on March 05 at 9:37 a.m.

  What JBelle said…NO

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  Stickman on March 05 at 9:40 a.m.

  What JBelle said.

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  Duffer on March 05 at 9:56 a.m.

  I’ll join the chorus too! NO!

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  Arpie on March 05 at 10:22 a.m.

  Maybe I’ve lived in tourist towns too long, but I love the idea of well dressed rubes being plucked for 25 bucks to do something any normal person would do for free. I fear for Stickman’s sticks though. They are nor worthy to hold one of his magical creations.

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  Kibby on March 05 at 10:28 a.m.

  No tours !

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  hmoffsuite on March 05 at 10:29 a.m.

  I enjoy the entrepeneurism of the whole matter and think it could be done in such a way as to not interfere with others using Tubbs or do any damage to the Hill. Some visitors might actually leave with a better understanding of our Cda history and culture. Stickman could rent walking sticks for the tour and likely get rich and turn into a capitalist himself. :~)

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  Arpie on March 05 at 10:35 a.m.

  Hmo,

  It’s time for you to meet Stickman. I can’t imagine such things as you talk about.

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  hmoffsuite on March 05 at 10:38 a.m.

  Arpie. As soon as I return to Cda, I intend to stop by and meet the man and the legend. Top of my list.

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  JeanieSpokane on March 05 at 10:39 a.m.

  Absolutely not. Tubbs Hill is a monument to Coeur d’Alene in its natural habitat. Tourism already runs rampant in this lovely city by the lake. Leave Tubbs Hill alone. Stickman does just fine by himself as the gatekeeper.

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  MikeK on March 05 at 10:48 a.m.

  I was sort of dreading this moment, but I gotta step up to the plate and take my medicine - I was one of 5 who voted for this pilot project. Here’s my general thinking:

  Since this idea came forward, I have heard about a lot of commercial activity in the parks and public spaces that has gone on ‘underground’. For example: photographers taking senior portraits on Tubbs Hill; private for-pay tours scheduled on Tubbs Hill by the Resort (given by Robert Singletary, a local treasure); for-profit yoga and physical fitness classes being held in Phippeny Park; for-profit scuba instructors and classes who use City Beach for putting into the water, etc.

  All of these have great merit and I wouldn’t want to be a event-Gestapo on this sort of thing, but if people want us to be completely consistent, we have to look at it. I’ve also heard the old saying “consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.” Tough call.

  I have heard from people who very much support this Tubbs Hill pilot project idea, and people who very much oppose it. I respect and value both impressions.

  This is a one-year RFQ for a test project. The total length of time is basically July and August, between 8 and 10 weeks out of the year max. Staff is going to come up with the strict definitions of what is acceptable i.e. how many per day (likely no more than two tours), how many people per tour (likely 10-12, no more than 14), criteria a tour guide has to follow (should they pick up trash? should they have only designated spots where they can stop with the group and talk? should the kayak component go around Tubbs Hill or only to a certain point and then back?) and the like.

  This could go down as a major mistake and a terrible vote for me when it’s all said and done - I don’t know. It could also be the beginning of a precedent on commercial activity that would ensure good, fair, common-sense uses. Currently the policy says No Commercial Use of any parks or public spaces anytime without express permission and permits, but how do we enforce that? Is that the right policy?

  Here’s another issue that’s worked it’s way through and has been vexing and ties into this overall issue: if a commercial endeavor (housing development) across the lake wants to use the 3rd Street Dock to ferry guests back and forth, can they? If the boat they use is actually a jointly owned asset of the Homeowners Association and not a part of a commercial venture, does that make a difference? If realtors are showing lakefront real estate to people and they are using the 3rd street public dock to launch and land, can/should that practice be banned as a violation of the no commercial access policy?

  I have had my eyes opened a bit about the policy, usage, emotions, and history of parks on this issue in a way I hadn’t experienced before. I don’t know what my final answer will be, because just when I feel like I’ve decided and can make a confident, definitive statement of position and principle on something, someone will respond legitimately “well, the for-profit day care kids are touring Tubbs Hill too and have been for years, and that’s technically a violation of the policy as well - should we shut them down?”

  And then I sigh and say, yea, this is all a pretty grey area, and while it’s vexing, if we can get good people together with their hearts in the right place and the right level of respect for the community’s assets, we’ll figure it out.

  Not sure what or how, but I do believe that.

  Sorry to those that are disappointed in this vote. It wasn’t an easy one, and I’m keenly aware of the emotion on this. I’ll keep watching closely and won’t take anything for granted. Please keep in touch with me at: mkennedy@cdaid.org or my cell phone 661-7337.

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  MikeK on March 05 at 10:51 a.m.

  Oh, and sorry for the bloghog here, DFO. I got rolling. I did learn there is a 4000 character limit on the blog, so I’ve got that going for me…

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  hmoffsuite on March 05 at 10:58 a.m.

  Jeanie >> “Tourism already runs rampant in this lovely city by the lake”

  That is because we are a ‘tourist town’ with a tourism based economy. It is the tourists from which businesses are supported. Tourism is a good thing for our community, thank you.

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  Walkabout on March 05 at 11:02 a.m.

  No, but if tours do start running I suggest the first day should be July 5th. The tours could be called “Environment Tours of Tubbs Hill”. Give each “well dressed rube” four trash bags, when the bags are full and in the dumpster the tour is over.

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  Nick_Adams on March 05 at 11:25 a.m.

  I can’t say I’m thrilled about this development, but I appreciate the councilman’s openess. I have a ton of respective for the potential vendor mentioned here a few weeks ago and am confident that between the vendor, the city and citizens (Stickman and Walkabout being two of the best) this will eventually work out.

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  lew2nl on March 05 at 12:00 p.m.

  Anyone who wants to walk around Tubbs Hill can do it on his own without being part of a tour group. Preserve the hill’s environment as it now stands. The tour management would need to set up refreshment stands, porta-potties and first aid stations to accommodate paying customers. If visitors can’t find their own way around this pristine landmark, they should find some other way to enjoy the scenery.

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  florined on March 05 at 1:40 p.m.

  Geez…please keep a few facts in mind:
  1) nothing is forcing people to shell out money. As many have pointed out, anybody can walk around on the treasure, for free.
  2) the suggested “tour” mentioned so far, would combine the walk with a kayak stint…something most tourists wouldn’t be able to do for free unless they already owned a vessel and had brought it with them.
  3) the proposal made so far was for an “interpretive” walk on the hill. I can walk there, (and have) but I still can’t tell you what plants and animals thrive there. I also can’t relate, without reading Scott Reed’s book, the fascinating history of the hill and the history of the effort to save it.
  4) Isn’t it possible that folks walking and (presumably) being monitored by a guide, would be less likely to start a fire with their cigarettes, leave their candy wrappers behind, and contribute to the nitrogen in the soil?
  5) “Value-added” experience has often been a welcome opportunity for me and many others in other tourist areas. Notice that the key word is “opportunity,” not “requirement.”

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  Stickman on March 05 at 2:30 p.m.

  Thanks for the comments Mike, it’s nice that you come on here and tell us how you voted and how you see things. My best time is the spring, when the Sorenson school classes take field trips and enjoy the hill for what it is. Lots of them end up here and I enjoy that. As for renting sticks, that’s funny. My sticks have always been free and they always will be. Arpie is right, as he’s been here as many others have and know why I do what I do.

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  Kage_Mann on March 05 at 3:20 p.m.

  Nobody needs to go on any tour.Just walk Tubbs Hill with someone else.It’s just another money making scheme.

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  hmoffsuite on March 05 at 3:27 p.m.

  Stickman >> “My sticks have always been free and they always will be”

  Free to your friends, but $2.00 to the California tourists. Then sell them a ‘Tubbs Hill’ book that Florined mentioned. Pay him $10 and sell them for $15. The ” I did Tubbs Hill, Coeur d’Alene Idaho” T- Shirts sell for $20 and cost you $10. Btw, your last post was a good one, imo, Florined. The only problem with my business plan here, Stickman, is that if your business thrives, Obama will have his hand in your pocket so you may want to just forget it and sit on the porch. :~)

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  Stickman on March 05 at 8:34 p.m.

  hmoffsuite: They are not free to my friends, they are free to anyone and everyone that happens by. I could of course use the money, but it is definitely not why I do what I do. Everything in life is for sale, but at my little carport, your money is no good, and never will be. No one will ever have their hand in my pocket, I do it for the pure love. If you don’t get that fact, then I’m sorry. If you really want to know why I do what I do, you will have to come by. Simple.

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  Escapee on March 05 at 8:59 p.m.

  From what I remember, there’s a portion of the trail on Tubbs Hill’s west side that is a little bit risky; the trail tries to navigate a rock outcropping and footing is just a bit tentative there. If that trail’s gonna be used for commercial purposes, I’d think whoever is giving tours should make sure the trail is safe…you know, insurance and all that…

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  Transplanted_Texan on March 05 at 10:01 p.m.

  I’m not going to scream no like so many others here, but… I’m just confused. Who would pay for the tour? What’s the point? What can they possible show that’s worth the money? The kayaking part sounds fun, but not worth nearly that much.

  Mike, thanks for the explanation. It makes sense. Don’t know if I’d vote the same way in your shoes, but with a rationale like that, at least your vote is highly respectable. (And indeed, I had my own senior portriats shot at the base of Tubb’s Hill several years ago, leaning against my mom’s truck.)

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