Poll: 4-Day Work Week

45 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

• 

  BigMac on March 07 at 6:59 a.m.

  No.

  Kids already have trouble concentrating for seven hours straight. Visit a high school at 2:00PM and you’ll see what I mean. The only way to cut 20% of school days and keep instructional hours the same is to increase the length of each day to 8.5 hours. You’ll lose effectiveness by doing so.

• 

  Bent on March 07 at 10:13 a.m.

  No. That might save a marginal amount of opperational money and give teachers EVEN MORE time off, but working parents with grade-school-aged children would pay the price for an additional 8 hours of day care each week…

  Yes, I know the public schools are not daycares, but that is a reality that working parents will face as a result of this move.

• 

  Rosalind on March 07 at 10:57 a.m.

  4 day work week should be implemented for EVERYONE, not just schools!

  That way, some parents won’t have to take responsibility for providing daycare for their children.

• 

  Nick_Adams on March 07 at 1:16 p.m.

  It’d be interesting to hear from parents, teachers and administrators from some of the school districts who’ve already made this move. I believe either Salmon or Challis has done this, as well as at least one district up North.

  I agree with Rosalind that it would be most effective when coupled with four-day work weeks for the parents.

• 

  hmoffsuite on March 07 at 2:34 p.m.

  Everyday, lately, Obama talks about how he intends to strengthen our educational systems so our kids don’t fall behind when compared to the rest of the countries of the world. As a matter of fact, he is going to throw a lot of money at the problem. Now, why in the world would we shorten the week for school days? Sounds stupid to me. The money we spend on education isn’t getting the job done. Our teachers are paid an annual salary and should work a full year, doing something. We should be going to a 6 day school week and have special programs all summer long for those students that could benefit from it. Our return on investment in education keeps going down. Hint: teachers unions

• 

  BigMac on March 07 at 4:35 p.m.

  I would be glad, as a teacher, to work a full year, if I only had to work 40 hours per week.

  Besides, teachers are not really paid a yearly salary, but for 185 contract days.

• 

  hmoffsuite on March 07 at 4:46 p.m.

  Mac >>> “Besides, teachers are not really paid a yearly salary, but for 185 contract days.”

  But look at what they get paid for those days. It amounts to an equivalent or better annual wage than many other professions.

• 

  Sam on March 07 at 4:52 p.m.

  Hmoff, would you please list as many professions as you can that you believe teachers earn a better annual wage than? I’m just curious to see what you’re thinking on it.

• 

  Rosalind on March 07 at 4:54 p.m.

  For a job that requires a college education, teaching doesn’t pay enough. Anyone who is supporting a family on a teacher’s salary (or 2) can attest to that.

• 

  hmoffsuite on March 07 at 5:06 p.m.

  Sam. When considering teachers annual pay, also factor in the benefits that go with the job. Health care, retirement, vacation time etc. Beyond that, here is an argument from Hoovers. …..

  http://www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/3438676.html

• 

  BigMac on March 07 at 5:19 p.m.

  I wrote this a couple years ago on the old site, but it’s worth repeating:

  Here’s how I spent the week of February 27th.

  Monday
  6:30-8:00 Lesson planning, correcting papers
  8:00-2:35 Instructional time
  2:35-5:30 Quiz master for academic team meet

  Tuesday
  6:30-8:00 Lesson planning, correcting papers
  8:00-2:35 Instructional time
  2:35-3:30 Academic team practice
  3:30-5:00 Developing materials for next day’s classes

  Wednesday
  6:30-8:00 Lesson planning, correcting papers
  8:00-2:35 Instructional time
  2:35-4:00 Faculty senate meeting
  4:00-6:30 Lesson planning, correcting papers
  6:30-9:30 Board meeting, presented several items for faculty senate

  Thursday
  6:30-8:00 Lesson planning, correcting papers
  8:00-2:35 Instructional time
  2:35-4:15 Faculty senate meeting
  6:00-7:30 Academic awards night; presented awards and talked with parents

  Friday
  6:30-8:00 Lesson planning, correcting papers
  8:00-2:35 Instructional time
  2:35-4:00 Advise history club meeting; set up for tomorrow’s event

  Saturday
  9:00-2:00 History club event

  Sunday
  9:00-3:00 Correcting papers, planning for next week.
  3:00-4:00 Writing instructions for substitute

  That makes for a work week of 68¼ hours. Was this week typical? Well, actually, yes. Usually I don’t have so many scheduled activities, but I do spend 65-70 hours a week working at my job. We have 40 contract weeks during the year, making 2730 total man hours in my work year. Someone working 40 hours a week with no vacation time would work 2080 man hours a year.

  But wait, my work is not done. Remember those summers off when you were a kid? So do I. But I don’t get them now. Our summer break is two months, not three (June 19th-August 14th this year), and teachers must take continuing education courses during that time to keep their certification. Two summers ago I spent three weeks in class. Last summer I did nothing, but on average I lose a week and a half of my summers to continuing education. In addition to these classes, most districts have teachers working during the summer on curriculum, test development, building plans, individual student education plans, and even building maintenance and construction. During the five summers I’ve had “off” during my career, I spent a total of six weeks helping out with these extra tasks. Let’s say it averages to a week a year. That means my eight week summer shrinks to five and a half weeks off, on average.

  Don’t get me wrong, here. I enjoy having that time off. But it’s not exactly the long summer vacation we all remember from our childhoods.

  When my team qualifies for the state tournament, which has done every year so far, I also spend my spring break chaperoning their trip to Boise. Instead of five days off, I end up working … four 16 hour days in a row (I guess I won’t count my sleep as work time, but I’m still responsible for six teenagers during that time). That’s a 64 hour week during my vacation.

  So just how much work does a teacher do? 2730 hours during my contract year plus 60 hours in classes (on average) plus 40 hours of additional summer work plus 64 hours during spring break makes 2894 hours of work a year. My annual salary in this, my sixth year of teaching, is $30,000. That means I get paid the equivalent of $10.37 an hour. I have a bachelor’s degree plus 60 credits of post-grad classes.

• 

  hmoffsuite on March 07 at 5:30 p.m.

  Mac. Thank you for the insight to your profession. There is certainly more involved in teaching than I had taken into account. Many others as well, I am sure. With your insight, i would like to ask a question, if I might. Why do we keep putting more money into education and keep getting diminishing results? Why aren’t the kids doing better in overall academic achievement? Where is the problem with the system? Where is it broken, in your opinion? And, how do we fix it? Thanks in advance for your opinion.

• 

  Sam on March 07 at 5:35 p.m.

  Darn it, hmoff, I wish you would have humored me and actually answered my question. You make these statements and I was hoping you’d actually elaborate so I can understand where you’re coming from. As of now you say teachers make more than other professions but you haven’t named them.

• 

  BigMac on March 07 at 6:23 p.m.

  We aren’t getting diminishing results. Our high school grads compete very well. The impression that they don’t comes from four sources, in my opinion.

  1. The US does not track student populations. That is to say, we don’t separate college-bound students after eighth grade for a college prep curriculum and send everyone else to a trade school. Most other countries do just that. When you see a comparison between US high schoolers and foreign high schoolers, you’re comparing the best students abroad with our general population. Compare US honors and AP students with foreign students, and you’ll find that we have the best school system in the world.

  2. Business leaders want the public to train workers for them, but our education system is set up to inculcate life-long learning. Many of the serious, scientific critiques of public education come from business leaders or organizations that want us to take the place of two years’ on-the-job training. When you hear that kids don’t get enough computer training in school, for example, well … on what system? How long will that system remain current? When I was a lad, we all had to learn BASIC. All our employers would require us to know BASIC. But when have I ever used it? When I was a trainer at Safeco, we spent two weeks training all new hires on our computer system. And management complained the whole time that they were spending money to teach something that the schools should already have taught.

  3. Many people expect schools to take the place of parents. We can’t do that. I have your kid for 180 hours. You have him for at least 18 years. Large segments of the population have very poor educational achievement because they just don’t have a social structure that values education. The drop out rate among poor, rural Idahoans is about 20%. The drop out rate among Hispanic children is about 22%. The drop out rate among inner-city black children is over 50%. The schools can’t help kids if they leave the system, and the system itself isn’t perfect. It needs a commitment from the student. If the student doesn’t value education, if his parents don’t value education, if his community doesn’t value education, the schools can’t force him to succeed.

  4. Everyone remembers their youth as a golden age. Kids today are spoiled rotten. They don’t have it nearly as rough as we did, and they couldn’t have hacked it in our world. We hear, for example, that kids today are dropping out in ever increasing numbers. Here’s the most recent data: http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/tables/1_Table_2.htm We have about a 10% dropout rate. Now when was the golden age of public education? 1955? The drop out rate was 41.9%. 1965? The drop out rate was 26.8%. I’ve looked at the curriculum taught then, and it was nothing like as good as what is taught today. We’re graduating more kids, and we’re graduating them with a better education, than at any other time in history.

  Don’t get me wrong. American schools can use improvement. We can certainly do much better. But it’s just not true that our results are “diminishing.”

• 

  Sam on March 07 at 6:32 p.m.

  Stat pwned by BigMac.

• 

  hmoffsuite on March 07 at 7:07 p.m.

  Mac >>> “We aren’t getting diminishing results. Our high school grads compete very well”

  if this is, indeed, the case, then why is it argued by Obama and others that our educational systems are in turmoil? When O speaks to the subject, it sounds like an national emergency. But, then again, everything on his plate is a national emergency.

• 

  Rosalind on March 07 at 7:10 p.m.

  Thank You BigMac! That was right on! Thank you for representing educators!

  I most definitely agree with all 4 fantastic points!!

  I have always liked the idea of Year Round school, where the summer break is spread out through the entire year. It’s seems like a good idea for increasing retention.

• 

  BigMac on March 07 at 7:15 p.m.

  I can’t speak for our president. I think schools should do a better job. I think they can do a better job with a few modest reforms.

• 

  cpalisa on March 07 at 9:17 p.m.

  Our school (private elementary) has a 4 day week and I have not heard anybody complain about it. Personally, I love it. The downside, from my point of view, is that the class day is packed pretty full and the schedule is tight, however the payoff of having the 3 days off with my daughter every week is worth it to all of us.

• 

  christywoolum on March 07 at 9:31 p.m.

  BigMac has made some good points. One reason I would support a four day school week is because our students travel long distances for sporting events and miss classes, especially on Fridays. I think if activity based classes were offered later in the day, it might work. My preference would be for more of a year long schedule. We break ours up a bit more now and certainly don’t have three months off for summer. We do our summer school in August now to give those students a jump start because many students historically lose learning over the summer.
  One factor that effects many schools is the strength of early childhood programs. Our students don’t have many options for early childhood education so we have many students that enter our school without any early childhood education, while others enter reading. With early intervention we try to bridge that gap, but it is a challenge.

• 

  marmitetoasty on March 08 at 1:53 a.m.

  Wow….. doodle schools have 3 months off during the summer?…….

  Our schools only get between 5 and 6 weeks off during the summer… we break up in the 3rd week into July and go back in the first week in September…

  On saying that we do get a fortnight off at crimbo and a fortnight at Easter and then 3 half term weeks off half way between each term…..

  Our schools work a 3 term year……

  If schools only opened here for 4 days I wouldnt mind cos I would get more work LOL…..

  x

• 

  Transplanted_Texan on March 08 at 2:37 p.m.

  As one of those six teenages Big Mac was responsible for one year, let me just say, he is the man.

• 

  Transplanted_Texan on March 08 at 2:38 p.m.

  And btw, though he lists 8am as the start time for his teaching, he’s just being modest… I know he taught zero hour at least one year, bumping that up an extra hour…

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