Stapilus: Hate Groups On The Rise

65 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

• 

  Sisyphus on March 16 at 9:39 a.m.

  Why are you publishing the fiction that they’re gone? As Randy points out they’re still right there in your front yard.

• 

  DFO on March 16 at 9:59 a.m.

  Sisyphus; I’m always amused re: how outsiders to North Idaho like to point fingers and say that the Aryans are still here. If they’re here, they’re also in your back yard. And in eastern Washington. And obviously in a lot of other places. You southern Idahoans are the ones having trouble getting Zeb Bell off the air not us. We had and continue to have an aggressive human rights movement in North Idaho. Can you say the same down south?

• 

  Charlie on March 16 at 10:26 a.m.

  Not like they had years ago. The report states there are 926 “hate groups” throughout the country. You can go to any state or city and find hate, it’s there for everybody to see. Look in your own back yard before pointing a finger at N.I.
  There are many types of hatred. If your are the wrong color, wrong church, wrong political party, wrong school, the list goes on and on.

• 

  Sisyphus on March 16 at 10:50 a.m.

  Wow the best form of defense is attack, huh? You wrote: “Do you think hate groups could get another toehold in the Inland Northwest, as they did during the heyday of the Aryan Nations?” Certainly that implies their lack of toehold when four of the seven groups Randy listed are in north Idaho, three of which list CDA addresses. You quite properly note we are challenging hatemongers down here. But I see little of that from HBO. In fact you quite publicly eschewed the Zeb Bell matter and Tara is still ticked about it. Just an observation.

  But way to divide us and grab a hold of the accolades of a human rights movement of which I was a part in North Idaho. I do also recall that many from Boise traveled on up to march against the Aryans. In your quest to make this a North Idaho blog I reckon you can go ahead and attack me as a southerner but I’m thinking our common goal would be better served with a united front.

• 

  DFO on March 16 at 11:11 a.m.

  Sisyphus; I’m amazed how you get so defensive when challenged. You’re the one who took a swipe at North Idaho, as though we have this monstrous ongoing problem and you southern Idahoans don’t have much of a problem at all. BTW, I covered the human rights movement in North Idaho as a reporter from 1984 until 1993. I’m not all that impressed that you traveled to Coeur d’Alene to march against the Aryans. If that was the march that took place along Highway 95, it was opposed by the Kootenai County Task Force on Human Relations, the experts on dealing with the Aryans. Who opted for passive resistance rather than a grandstand play. The impact of that march dissipated with the mostly out-of-town crowd afterward. Meanwhile, the meaningful resistance that eventually led to the downfall of the Aryan Nations continued in the capable hands of Bill Wassmuth, Tony Stewart, Norm Gissel, et al.

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  hmoffsuite on March 16 at 11:32 a.m.

  Fwiw and in my opinion, the groups that came out to protest the Aryan parade actually made the matter a whole lot worse. In particular, that jerk from the Jewish Defense League. The confrontation was the news, not the fact that some dorks were marching down Sherman. Had they merely walked down the street, with merchant doors and windows covered, the event would have quickly gone away. The protesters made it such that Cda made national news. Thanks for the help, aryan protesters.

• 

  Nick_Adams on March 16 at 11:46 a.m.

  I don’t see where Sys took a swipe at North Idaho. 5 of the 7 groups identified by the report are located up North. That’s a fact, not a swipe. While none have the prominence once held by Bultler and his ilk, as long as there is even one in Idaho, regardless of geography, we still have work to do.

  Gospel Ministries - Christian Identity; Boise
  JTB Publications - General Hate; Careywood
  Aryan Nations - Neo-Nazi; Coeur d’Alene
  Campaign for Radical Truth in History - Holocaust Denial; Coeur d’Alene
  The International Conspiratological Association - Holocaust Denial; Coeur d’Alene
  Folk and Faith - White Nationalist; Idaho Falls
  America’s Promise Ministries - Christian Identity; Sandpoint

• 

  Sisyphus on March 16 at 12:38 p.m.

  Fallacy, HBO=North Idaho. I’m not attacking north Idaho. Far from it. I’m attacking the delusion that you, Dave, think you’ve conquered racism and bigotry. As I recall it was a lawsuit from an outsider, represented by the Southern Poverty Law Center, also not local, that successfully sued and obtained a judgment against Butler and his organization and eventually also acquired his compound as a result. And, oh yeah, it was purchased and razed by a guy from South East Idaho, Greg Carr, who, thank god, didn’t have such provincial notions of what makes Idaho great. And I most certainly never asserted as fact that southern Idaho is free from racism or otherwise compared north and south. So go ahead and pat yourself on the back and ignore our continuing problem. But don’t think that north Idaho accomplished what was accomplished alone.

  Thanks Nick for the correction.

• 

  DFO on March 16 at 1:12 p.m.

  Sisyphus; you’re wide of the mark again. Then, you’d never admit error. So I’ll point out your misstatement of the facts re: the Aryan trial to others here. Yeah, the SPLC was instrumental in the prosecution and ultimate bankruptcy of Richard Butler and the Aryan Nations. But it was the diligent work local attorneys Norm Gissel and Ken Howard of the Kootenai County Task Force on Human Relations that brought this civil case to life, as well as the task force’s actions in the 1980s in pushing tough malicious harassment laws through the Legislature that enabled the civil trial to succeed. Without the tireless local effort over 2 decades and the hand-holding of the plaintiffs, that civil suit would have fallen flat. BTW, the local effort was a bipartisan one. Wassmuth, Stewart, Gissel & other early task force leaders realized that they wouldn’t go far w/o involving regional Republicans. You should consider that point carefully as you try to do something about racism in your neck of the woods.

• 

  florined on March 16 at 2:26 p.m.

  As is usually the case, the better informed we are, the stronger we are. So, thanks for bringing some of the groups to our attention (Randy et al), thanks for reminding us of some of the major players (both DFO and Sis), and thanks, HMO, for mentioning a player (Jewish Defense League) who was neither invited nor supported by the local human rights group.

  History is so important; otherwise we can’t know WHY we are where we are.

  But it’s also critical to remember that history is the past, not the present. And I urge all to realize that the people who have been actively fighting hate groups for decades here in NI (and yes, that includes many supporters from other areas, in and outside of Idaho), moved us forward but they didn’t end the fight. The haters are still here. They may shift the focus to new objects, but they’re still here, still active, and still recruiting.

• 

  Sisyphus on March 16 at 2:48 p.m.

  “You should consider that point carefully as you try to do something about racism in your neck of the woods.”—the effort is bipartisan Dave as anyone who has spent time looking at Mountain Goat’s compilation would know. But its a difficult task, and certainly much different from the situation in North Idaho, when every local state and federal Republican lawmaker goes on Zeb’s show and thereby sanctions his conduct. And we reach out to all quarters, not just insulate ourselves to our own region and thumbing our noses at the rest of the world while we triumphantly toot our own horn on a job well done, especially when it isn’t. I made no misstatement of fact, I merely pointed out it wasn’t accomplished by yourself. And I certainly cannot be interpreted to dis on Wassmuth or Howard. Quite the contrary they illustrate my point that its better to reach out for resources and never ignore racism when its glaring at you.

• 

  Kage_Mann on March 16 at 3:20 p.m.

  What sank Butler and his compound, was a lawsuit by an indian
  ACTIVIST who ahem, just happened to be driving by Butlers compound with her son and they stopped right in front of Butlers gate.She said the reason she stopped in front of Butlers place was b/c her son dropped his billfold outside the car.Who looks at their billfold outside of the car while, traveling?
  As they were leaving her old car backfired and Mr. Butlers henchmen thought they were being fired on.Anyway,it was a good payday for a woman who owned a 10 by 12 cabin.

  I think this woman was looking for a big payday, because she was a known activist.I don’t believe her story.But, hey this area is better off without Butler anyway.BTW- had Butler quit claim deeded his property into a Limited Partnership, he wouldn’t have lost his property.The plaintiff could have even won a judgement, but couldn’t have collected on it.

• 

  Dennis on March 16 at 3:37 p.m.

  What amazes me is how individuals like Kage can come on a site like this and tacitly defend scum like Butler and his crew by heaping the blame on the victim.

  Kinda sheds a little light on KM’s true intentions.

• 

  hmoffsuite on March 16 at 3:39 p.m.

  florined. It was driving me nuts cause I couldn’t remember the name of that obnoxious JDJ activest. I remembered. He got what was coming to him, I spose

  http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9506EED8123EF936A35752C1A9649C8B63&n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FSubjects%2FI%2FIslam

• 

  Sisyphus on March 16 at 4:22 p.m.

  Indeed Dennis, but I’ve made the case before. The jury clearly wasn’t composed of people like him.

  Kage, there’s this glaring problem with your analysis. Its a tort of which you seem to be unaware called ‘transfer in fraud of creditors’. But you just go on thinking you can get away with it.

• 

  hmoffsuite on March 16 at 4:31 p.m.

  The real hero in getting rid of Butler et al was Morris Dees, imo. He has helped out other communities in getting rid of the racists also.

  http://www.splcenter.org/center/history/dees.jsp

• 

  Dennis on March 16 at 4:38 p.m.

  Sisyphus on March 16 at 4:22 p.m.

  <kage, there’s=”” this=”” glaring=”” problem=”” with=”” your=”“ analysis.=”“>

  That can be said about all his analysis’.

  :-)

• 

  cantyoureadthesigns on March 16 at 5:13 p.m.

  Just when you think someone can stoop no lower, you have Kage Mann repeating (as truth) the ridiculous conspiracy theories of the Neo-Nazi’s regarding Ms. Keenan, who was terrorized and damn near killed by those thugs.

  Sickmaking.

  “Warfield claimed he “overreacted to a situation” and is responsible for leading the assault on the Keenans. He admitted sending threatening letters from prison to the Keenans and others involved in the case. Warfield said he still thinks the Keenans were part of a conspiracy aimed at canceling the Aryan Nations parade, which was held in downtown Coeur d’Alene less than three weeks after the assault.”
  -CdA Press

• 

  DFO on March 16 at 5:36 p.m.

  >Kage, there’s this glaring problem with your analysis — Sisyphus.<

  Sis; pleaz mark me down in total agreement with your 4:22 post.

• 

  hhuseland on March 16 at 6:45 p.m.

  “Hate Groups,” an omnibus term, are in every state, in every nation in the world. People that refuse to recognize that those different than us have rights too, abound. They are almost as hateful as those that find racist under every rock and ride that horse to death. Extremism is a hate group, no matter what the extreme.

• 

  Kage_Mann on March 16 at 6:52 p.m.

  Dennis on March 16 at 3:37 p.m.”What amazes me is how individuals like Kage can come on a site like this and tacitly defend scum like Butler and his crew by heaping the blame on the victim”.

  Kinda sheds a little light on KM’s true intentions.

  I’m not defending that scum, Dennis.But, I’m glad your playing cop and reading my mind.

  Sisyphus on March 16 at 4:22 p.m.”Indeed Dennis, but I’ve made the case before”.

  Yea, Sis you really know people.I stand by my previous assertions about you.

  I’m glad Butlers gone.End of story.

• 

  hhuseland on March 16 at 6:53 p.m.

  Controlling thought, is an abomination equal to those shouting anti-whatever slogans. Education is the path to getting along with our neighbors, whether they be next door, or across the ocean. People like sisyphus and other extremists are just as hateful in their own way as any of the Aryan Nations jerks ever were. Even at their summit, Aryans only counted in the two dozen range, other than when they gathered for their annual campout, and even then, they had to include other nazi type groups. When all was said and done, most of them were just ignored by the locals as idiots, which, of course is what they deserved. Only the national pres, looking for blood and contraversy managed to balloon a small group of kooks into a mass of storm troopers. What they were, was a bunch of fat old guys that loved power, carried guns and strutted. In short, they were idiots, and for reformers to take them as seriously as they do is a disservice to the intelligence of the community.

• 

  Dennis on March 16 at 7:01 p.m.

  Kage, I don’t have to “Play Cop” to read your mind. You’re so shallow that you read like a dime store novel.

• 

  Kage_Mann on March 16 at 7:08 p.m.

  Dennis, you’ve been playing cop for years. ;-p

• 

  Dennis on March 16 at 7:23 p.m.

  The only time I play is when I’m bored and I want to have a battle of wits with an individual that don’t have any ammo……….. I’m bored and it appears you wanna play.

  :-)

• 

  florined on March 16 at 7:36 p.m.

  Wow, Herb, I don’t think I can agree with you on the efficacy of the Butler crowd. Granted, the “registered” followers were minimal, but they went a bit further than just strutting around the compound. They were proven to be involved in attempts to produce counterfeit money, thefts to fund some of their campaigns, etc. And I think you may be sipping a little too much on the Stella if you really think they didn’t (don’t) have a large crowd of supporters, locally. Butler’s gone, but his legacy lives, in our neighborhoods.

• 

  Charlie on March 16 at 7:40 p.m.

  I noticed in this”hate” group report that Idaho had 7 groups while CA had 84, TX had 66, FLA had 56, SC had 45, PA had 37 and so on. The point is hate is everywhere, don’t make a federal case for Idaho. Idaho has made progress, how about the rest of the country?

• 

  cantyoureadthesigns on March 16 at 8:14 p.m.

  I noticed in this”hate” group report that Idaho had 7 groups while CA had 84, TX had 66, FLA had 56, SC had 45, PA had 37 and so on. The point is hate is everywhere, don’t make a federal case for Idaho. Idaho has made progress, how about the rest of the country?

  -Charlie

  California has 22 times the population of Idaho. If such hate groups were distributed randomly based on population, California would have 154, not 84, hate groups.

  Your math doesn’t work.

  The rest of the country has less of a problem with hate groups than Idaho does.

• 

  cantyoureadthesigns on March 16 at 8:22 p.m.

  “Extremism is a hate group, no matter what the extreme.”
  -Herb

  So I guess you disagree with Barry Goldwater then?

  “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.”

• 

  Charlie on March 16 at 8:41 p.m.

  cantyour,
  I said nothing about math, I just stated what is in the report. Probably the groups in the other states are a bit more vicious and larger. Hate is hate whether it is one person or a gang.
  You say the rest of the country has less of a problem than Idaho. I and a lot of other folks would probably like to see your proof.

• 

  hhuseland on March 16 at 9:37 p.m.

  Hate is where you find it. I see hate, when sisyphus rants at the right. I see hate when the right rants about the left, the same. In short, hate is everywhere, about everything. for a person to mount the soapbox about racial hate, without regard to the hate they, themselves are spewing, is, if not so sad, humorous. The one word that throughout the evening, I haven’t heard from anyone, is “tolerance.”

• 

  hhuseland on March 16 at 9:43 p.m.

  Oh, and Canty, I wuz there. I was a goldwater acolyte. You are prostituting what he said and in the wrong context. Barry would never have tried to shut down opposition rhetoric. He was more of a libertarian than what passes for a republican now. This conversation isn;t about liberty, it’s about freedom of expression. If you haven’t figured that out, go back to wherever you think you learned this sh$$ and start over.

• 

  cantyoureadthesigns on March 16 at 9:58 p.m.

  Herb, you didn’t qualify your description about extremism, at all. You said, “Extremism is a hate group, no matter what the extreme.” You very clearly inferred that all extremism is akin to a hate group.

  I did not malign ANYTHING about the context regarding Mr. Goldwater’s remarks about extremism in the context of defending liberty.

  Mission accomplished.

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