NYTimes Disses Idaho Wolf Hunt

42 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

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  Phaedrus on September 02 at 11:22 a.m.

  No.

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  Charles_Dixon on September 02 at 11:23 a.m.

  I don’t care what the New York TImes thinks about anything.

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  brentandrews on September 02 at 11:30 a.m.

  This is laughable. The Times should know better. They’re usually better than that. “Love of killing things!” “An implacable, and unjustified, hostility to [sic] the wolf!” Why not just say that since Rammell made a thoughtless off-the-cuff comment about getting an Obama tag, all Idahoans must be Aryans? The logic fails me. Again, the Times is usually better at getting inside local minds before weighing in so heavily. And it should be hostility “toward” the wolf, by the way. Does that mean all Timesmen are ignorant of English grammar?

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  Bent on September 02 at 11:32 a.m.

  I say we reintroduce the wolf to central park, and see how they like it.

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  JBelle on September 02 at 11:32 a.m.

  HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  NEW*YORKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  How would their comments differ if they came barreling up the A train exit stairs on Columbus Circle and under the globe to meet them stood a snarling gray wolf who had just wandered in from Central Park?

  New Yorkers don’t know their butt from a can of corn on many things; they need to just shut it. You can tell them I said, too.

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  OrangeTV on September 02 at 11:33 a.m.

  At this point, not really. It’s just another thing to add to the pile of reasons why the sane parts of the country look at Idaho as amusingly backwards-thinking and non-progressive.

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  toadman on September 02 at 11:37 a.m.

  I’ll second what Jbelle AND what OTV said.

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  Joker on September 02 at 11:43 a.m.

  Surprised they didn’t call it the Iowa wolf hunt. New Yorkers have a hard time imagining a world west of the Mississippi.

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  hhuseland on September 02 at 11:46 a.m.

  Maybe we should ask the times to take a poll regarding what North Idaho folks think about New York?

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  BayviewBob on September 02 at 11:54 a.m.

  New York City. In 2008, there were 523 reported murders, a 5.2% rise from the previous year.

  They kill more people in New York than we want to kill wolves.

  Ya, wer’e the “bad” guys.

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  moscow_minidoka on September 02 at 12:03 p.m.

  Umm, did no one notice that the piece was written by TIMOTHY EGAN, who is not some ignorant New York elitist - he grew up in Spokane.

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  moscow_minidoka on September 02 at 12:04 p.m.

  My point is: instead of railing against the OUTSIDERS in NYC who don’t know anything about Idaho, perhaps you should sit down and consider why someone who actually grew up here would feel this way. This isn’t a LOCAL vs OUTSIDER perspective - he’s one of us.

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  Nick_Adams on September 02 at 12:16 p.m.

  @MM: There are two NY Times pieces—an editorial and a column by Egan. It’s the editorial that’s the controversy.

  FWIW I agree that this is about us, as Idahoans. What the NY Times thinks is irrelevant.

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  JBelle on September 02 at 12:22 p.m.

  of course, I noticed the piece by Tim Egan. Of Gonzaga Preparatory School, thank you very much. But at that, last time I looked, Egan still lives in SeAt, vacations at Chelan and knows Idaho about the same as any other Puget Sounder. Only by drive bys. I’ll give Egan a pass on this, but only because he worships at the one true Holy and Apostolic Church.

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  JBelle on September 02 at 12:24 p.m.

  What in the hell are you talking about now, Moscow Minidoka? Tim Egan is not one of us. YOU are barely are one of us if you went to Minidoka, btw.

• 

  Me on September 02 at 12:30 p.m.

  I do care a little about what those back east think because there are easterners in DC making decisions (introducing wolves in Idaho) about our state that we the citizens of the state have to live with.

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  JBelle on September 02 at 12:32 p.m.

  did that sound harsh? it certainly wasn’t meant to be, Moscow Mini. well, not totally harsh, I mean. well. aw geez. Kootenai County isn’t even the blue chip address it used to be, as far as Idahoans go. Now it’s Benewah or Shoshone County, where the real people live that is. all right, all right. back to my cage.

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  Nick_Adams on September 02 at 12:43 p.m.

  @Me: Of which “easterners” do you speak?

  The current Secretary of Interior, who has jurisdiction over Fish & Wildlife, is from Colorado. The Secretary of Agriculture, who has jurisdiction over the Forest Service, is from Iowa. The current President, who has jurisdiction over all of them, is from Chicago.

  Maybe you’re thinking of Mike Crapo—who is from “eastern” Idaho?

• 

  fortboise on September 02 at 12:53 p.m.

  Even though the he-men of Idaho would never admit it out loud, they ought to care about the image we send to the outside world, and how it’s reflected in the elite media.

  Two reasons: our economy depends in large measure on tourism, and our government is funded by those blue staters who pay more in taxes than they get back, so that we can pay less than we get back.

  We now return to the regular program of liberal-blasting machismo.

• 

  moscow_minidoka on September 02 at 12:54 p.m.

  Jbelle:

  I’ll give you a pass this time, but please don’t question my Idaho street cred. I’m fourth-generation pure Idahoan, and I take just as much pride in the North Idaho I now call home as I do in the Southern Idaho where I was born and raised.

  You can sneer and turn your nose up at Timothy Egan all you want, but my point is that he *does* have a local’s perspective. I lived in Seattle for four years after college. Does that mean that all the years I spent driving trucks and tractors and moving hand lines and siphon tubes no longer count? Does the manure I shoveled and animals I castrated not count because I used to take the bus from Ballard to downtown Seattle to work?

  This knee-jerk “anti-outsider” thing is not one of Idaho’s most endearing traits.

  Most issues are far more complicated than us vs. them, and I thought Egan’s perspective was interesting. My father, for instance, is an elk hunter - he didn’t care about the reintroduction of wolves, and he’s not exactly in favor of hunting them, either. He’s much more worried about a drunken elk hunter mistaking him for big game and pulling the trigger. Does that make my dad less of an Idahoan than Mr. Whatshisname in Kamiah who bagged the first wolf?

• 

  Me on September 02 at 12:58 p.m.

  1991 – The Wolf Management Committee submitted their Plan to Congress.

  1991 – Congress directed U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to prepare an environmental impact statement on the plan to reintroduce wolves into central Idaho and Yellowstone National Park.

  etc - there are members of congress from back east I do believe.

• 

  JBelle on September 02 at 1:14 p.m.

  all right, all right, all right. First: I do not sneer nor turn up my nose at anyone, let alone Tim Egan; he is a member of the Holy Roman Church and went to a high school far more superior that Minico or CHS, even if it wasn’t in Idaho. You misunderstand me. Tim Egan has been linked on my blog for about 5 years now, what about yours? ;)

  Second, like it or not, Moscow, Mr. Moscow, your birth certificate eminates from south of the Snake. I can hold you at a certain perspective if I want. Even if I am rather fond of your Irish and even if you make the cleanest of arguments. You’re still from Minidoka County. That’s south of here. And you and I are both well east of Shoshone County, where the sun first comes over the mountain, these days.

  Finally, Dude, Mr. Dude, you need to get to know people much, much better before you drop this Seattle thing on them. Seriously. You seem like a nice guy, good work ethic and all, and this whole Puget Sound episode in your life could give people the wrong idea about you is all. I’m not sayin’ but I’m just sayin’.

  :)

• 

  moscow_minidoka on September 02 at 1:16 p.m.

  Jbelle:

  Minidoka County is on the *north* side of the Snake. Cassia is on the south. I’m from north of the Snake, not south. ;)

• 

  zelda on September 02 at 1:26 p.m.

  Hard to believe that Idaho once had a senator named Frank Church. Or Cecil Andrus as governor. That’s how much it’s changed.

  As for hunting wolves, this blows up Sarah Palin’s “We eat; therefore, we hunt” argument. Do you suppose Rammell will have a fundraiser in Rexburg that serves wolf stew — “Wolf Out in the Park”?

  Eagen is correct. As much as Idaho wants to believe it’s business friendly, the fact is that a state can’t create or attract decent-paying jobs when it has the deserved reputation as a haven for racists and nut-jobs.

  And these attitudes have a capillary effect, bleeding into Spokane County, effectively blunting its ability to attract and retain industry.

• 

  toadman on September 02 at 1:34 p.m.

  Hey MM and Jbelle, I don’t suppose I can add anything? I mean, I’ve only lived north of the Mason/Dixon line for six years now…what does that make me?

  How long until I’m a “local” anyway?

  ;-)

  FWIW, I don’t care what the NYT thinks about much of anything. I gather information from them, take it for what its worth, understanding the regional cultural differences, and so on, and make my own decisions. What matters to me is, how is Idaho portraying *itself* to the rest of the US at large?

• 

  JBelle on September 02 at 1:41 p.m.

  Fair enough, Moscow!

  (May I call you Moscow?)

• 

  Kage_Mann on September 02 at 1:50 p.m.

  “How long until I’m a “local” anyway”?

  As a native to this CDA area, I’d say 20 years.You only have 14 years to go. ;-)

• 

  jreighley on September 02 at 2:05 p.m.

  I wonder how long it would take an unchecked Wolf Population to take Spread across the nation?

  Of course we could just distribute Condoms to the wolves, perhaps that would manage the problem?

• 

  Me on September 02 at 2:05 p.m.

  In your opinion Zelda then should all hunting be banned in Idaho in order for us to no longer be ‘nut jobs’?

• 

  Me on September 02 at 2:07 p.m.

  And jreighley - someone on another site did suggest that we spay and neuter all the wild wolves - she inferred that it shouldn’t be that difficult. Which again lends to the belief that people think wolf = pet dog.

• 

  zelda on September 02 at 2:21 p.m.

  That’s not what I’m saying, Me. I’m OK with somet game hunting. People do in fact put meat on the table and herds are overpopulated (mostly because of the elimination of natural predators). But in my book, hunting for predators is just trophy shooting meant to demonstrate one’s studliness and lethality. Maybe that impresses some people. I’m not one of those.

  I worked with a guy who saw a big bird flying by and since he didn’t know what it was, he shot it. It was a snowy owl. What a great way to investigate the natural world! “I didn’t know what it was so I shot it.” That sort of entitlement shouldn’t be encouraged.

• 

  Me on September 02 at 2:32 p.m.

  The guy you worked with then, was a nut job but that doesn’t mean all who support hunting are.

  I still don’t see the wolf hunters in the same way just becasue they aren’t eating the meat. The Feds put the wolves here, said here is the goal number we want, and when we get there, we will let you manage them. We are far beyond that point now (x5) so the state wants to manage them. They could go to poison instead, and then there would be no nut jobs out shooting them when they are out elk hunting, but somehow I don’t think that would be acceptable either….

• 

  zelda on September 02 at 2:57 p.m.

  I don’t consider killing animals “fun.” It’s done out of necessity. I’m not a vegetarian. I know that eating meat is the most efficient source of protein. But I just don’t get (understand) the thrill and enjoyment that some people derive from killing an animal. This isn’t the 17th-century. It’s not a daily battle of man vs. nature. Maybe if somebody was grappling with a wolf with his bare hands and a club it would be an awesome feat of survival, but nowadays — given half a chance — people would blow up a bear with a hand grenade and call it a sport.

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  Bent on September 02 at 3:02 p.m.

  I am not a trophy hunter at all. I seriously don’t like the killing part of the hunt, but I was raised to respect the woods and to engage nature as way to provide for my family. Back in the 80s, as a young adult with four children to feed, I was glad I was raised this way.

  ME makes a very good point. The wolves are out there. They are over populated. Just last week in the course of one night a pack of wolves killed over 120 sheep on a ranch in Montana. The population has to be controlled. I think hunting them probably makes the most sense.

  I don’t kill anything I don’t eat, but I don’t condem those who will hunt the wolves, either. I would much rather see that than any other form of culling. By poisening the wolves they are taking a chance of poisening so many other species.

  At least by hunting them, the wolves are being taught to fear and respect their human predators. This eventually will result in the weaker wolves being culled while the smarter and stronger wolves will survive and breed.

  The theory is that wolf packs eventually will learn to avoid the human interface in order to survive. Hopefully it will also deter the wolves from looking at domestic livestock as a potential food source.

• 

  moscow_minidoka on September 02 at 3:05 p.m.

  Bent - that’s probably the most reasonable argument in favor of the wolf hunt that I have seen. Thanks.

• 

  DFO on September 02 at 3:05 p.m.

  @ Kage Mann re: “As a native to this CDA area, I’d say 20 years.You only have 14 years to go. ;-)”

  So, Kage, you’re admitting I’m a Coeur d’Alene native now? I’ve lived here 25 years, as of Sept. 9. I’ve lived in Idaho for 27 years. I’ll retire here. Eleven months of the year, I desire to live no where else. From mid-January to Blogfest in mid-February, I get tired of the winters — at least, the last two winters. Then, I know life-long residents who are tired of fighting the winters. BTW, how many of the OpenCDA.com gang have lived her 25 years?

• 

  Me on September 02 at 3:34 p.m.

  Bent - you again wrote exactly my feelings on the subject.

  “But I just don’t get (understand) the thrill and enjoyment that some people derive from killing an animal.”

  I guess one of the points I’ve been trying to make is that I don’t believe all hunters or even a high percentage of hunters for that matter feel as Zelda and others think they do. That there is a thrill and enjoyment in killing an animal. I believe there are more hunters who feel as Bent wrote.

• 

  Kage_Mann on September 02 at 4:07 p.m.

  “So, Kage, you’re admitting I’m a Coeur d’Alene native now”?DFO.

  DFO-In my definition, you would have to be born here to be a native, but you qualify for being a local. ;-)

  They have all lived here along time.

• 

  DFO on September 02 at 4:33 p.m.

  @ Kage; I agree with your definition. I’m not a native. But I am a local.

• 

  Bent on September 02 at 6:50 p.m.

  ;-) @ ME.

• 

  Bent on September 02 at 6:55 p.m.

  And thanks MM…I actually have to work at being reasonable…

• 

  BayviewBob on September 02 at 9:03 p.m.

  “I guess one of the points I’ve been trying to make is that I don’t believe all hunters or even a high percentage of hunters for that matter feel as Zelda and others think they do. That there is a thrill and enjoyment in killing an animal. I believe there are more hunters who feel as Bent wrote”

  You are right, there is a thrill in the hunt itself, but after the kill, the work begins!
  Non hunters have this “Bambi” inspired notion that has no relation to reality what-so-ever.

  Hunters have more respect for animals and nature than anyone else, mainly because they spend more time out in nature.

  Why do people in New York, and other states without them, think we should have wolves? They used to have them and they killed them all. We are just thinning ours. :)

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