Huckleberries Online

High Noon: An Alpha Male Shortage?

Posted by DFO

Sept. 8, 2010 12:20 p.m. • 42 comments

I’ve asked the question for years: with the devastation of the “family” through neglect, divorce and indifference what will happen to the next generation of males? Raised by over-worked and very tired single mothers, “little-men” need male mentors. Taught, by and large in the early years by females, these mini-males need real, love, sweaty and burly men around them to show what a man is…and therefore what a man does. Too harsh to say it in that fashion? If you say “yes”, then you misunderstand me. Do you notice that I am NOT saying “little-ladies” need females to mentor them? Why omit that? Because women have been so wildly successful in mentoring both their girls and their boys/Dennis Mansfield. More here.

Question: Do you agree with Dennis that today’s many of today’s boys aren’t be raised well enough to embrace the responsibilities facing tomorrow’s men?

42 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

Cindy_H on September 08 at 12:25 p.m.
Yes.
toadman on September 08 at 12:29 p.m.
No.
toadman on September 08 at 12:35 p.m.
“…these mini-males need real, love, sweaty and burly men around them to show what a man is…and therefore what a man does.”

I don’t really know exactly “what a man does” other than what my own dad did. Anything else is some sort of macho-man b.s. that has absolutely no meaning in my life, nor a place in my boys lives. To me, a man should be responsible, loving, and present. As far as being “sweaty and burly,” well, I’m sure some go for that, (Cindy, to be sure), but I don’t see how that has anything to do with being a man.
kamm on September 08 at 12:46 p.m.
Either parent can successfully raise a child of the opposite sex if they put their heart and head into it.
Opportunities at school and sport events, at birthday party planning and sex education don’t have a sex requirement to teach the lessons.
Opposite sex family, friends, colleagues can help by being even remotely involved with activities or on a infrequent basis.
Sleep overs with trusted families of children’s friends can show the workings of ‘traditional’ families.
Even children living in ‘traditional’ families can acquire some of the lessons of life in a new way by looking at other ‘families structures’ and their dynamics.
Seeing that a man can be tender and still a man, seeing that a woman can be strong and provide for the family and still be a woman are great lessons for all children to absorb in the daily activities that make our life, well, our life.
Sisyphus on September 08 at 12:47 p.m.
His premise is faulty. I know both single moms and dads and their kids run the gamut from really well adjusted to screwed up. And that’s ferdamnsure with married hetero couples. Really, Dennis is on awfully thin ice on a subject on which he’s demonstrated a pretty thin skin. Perpetuating gender stereotypes does little to elucidate the needs of children or the role of parenting.

But I am amused by his anecdote. From his reasoning, gay parents would be teh awesome.
sue on September 08 at 1:02 p.m.
Did divorce, neglect, and that horrible women’s lib just start in this generation? Ugh. I have a different point of view. What I love seeing these days are more involved dads. I raised 3 boys and their dad admits he was not nearly as involved as his son is with his daughter and son. There is more of an expectation from both parents that this is a joint responsibility. I love seeing daddy shopping and cooking with daughter, giving them baths, putting them to bed, taking them to the park. It’s not just in our immediate family either. We hear stories on this blog of the responsible fathers participating and sharing parenting. If anything, I think we should be appreciating this more well-rounded approach to the job of parent.
scootermom on September 08 at 1:28 p.m.
If perpetuating harmful gender stereotypes is a good thing, then I agree with Dennis.

But, since I don’t believe narrowly defining gender is helpful or healthy, I have to say Dennis is full of …. well … sweaty, burly wrongness.
idawa on September 08 at 1:29 p.m.
poppycock. True, I think that there are innate tendencies that each gender possess, but he is completely ignoring that fact that people can learn what doesn’t come naturally if they need to - we are humans have large fore-brains, well, at least some of us… I went to college with several, very manly men of the stripe he opines for who were brought up by tougher than nails single mothers. (and, I also know several wusses who came from ‘traditional’ homes, btw).

Using myself as an example, I will admit that I am not as naturally nurturing as my wife as I tend to let the our infant daughter cry longer and figure things out for herself more so than my wife. But, when my wife isn’t home, and I realize that she needs some motherly nurturing, I suck it up and nurture the heck out of her - whether it comes naturally or not. Why? because like so many single moms out there, I man up and figure it out.
Voltron on September 08 at 1:35 p.m.
I would argue that Mansfield premise is flawed. Show me the evidence that boys aren’t being raised well enough? Everyone keeps worrying about the next generation? The world’s going to hell in a handbasket.

We’ve all heard this before. He sounds like the old guy at the nursing home, complaining that kids today are no good lazy sons of bitches who show no respect.

If people would just concentrate on raising their own kids and not worry about how everybody else is doing — the world would be a better place.
stacyp on September 08 at 1:39 p.m.
As a single mother to two teen-aged boys (by no choice of my own, btw), I’m offended by Dennis’ assertion that my boys will be any less “manly” than those raised with a father. I have participated in and exposed my boys to more male-oriented activities than their completely non-involved “macho” father ever would have. Ever.

In addition to being athletic, outdoorsy, and adventurous, my boys are becoming loving and compassionate young men who have a deep respect for women and family. I’m enormously proud of them.

As far as I’m concerned, macho more often than not equals obnoxious.
jreighley on September 08 at 1:41 p.m.
The feminist movement may have liberated women from being dependent on men, but it also liberated men from being responsible for the welfare of women.

Now men remain boys into their 30’s and beyond.
scootermom on September 08 at 1:43 p.m.
Voltron:

One of my favorite bumperstickers,

“Focus on Your Own Damn Family!”
Sisyphus on September 08 at 1:52 p.m.
Wow jreighley, just wow. I don’t even know where to start with that, and in the concern I’ll be violating my own rules, that’s by far the most sexist thing I’ve read in a post in a long time. I’ll leave it for others for the time being.

Incoming!
fortboise on September 08 at 1:59 p.m.
No. Absurd perambulation from a flawed observation.

Kids these days, what’re you gonna do.
lovetohateme on September 08 at 2:18 p.m.
I agree with Dennis and Cindy. Far too many “men” are still just little boys, even though they’re 30 or 40 years of age.
><(((*> on September 08 at 2:21 p.m.
Far too many “men” (“women”) are still just little boys (girls), even though they’re 30 or 40 years of age.

so maybe we could just say “people”:
Far too many people are still just little kids, even though they’re 30 or 40 years of age.
jreighley on September 08 at 2:28 p.m.
Sisyphus,
I am not saying it is right, Just saying it is what it is.
moscow_minidoka on September 08 at 2:39 p.m.
I am by no means a “manly man,” if that means someone who shoots animals for fun, takes his sons to NASCAR races, farts and burps religiously, and spends the entire weekend allowing his wife to wait on him while watching sports on TV and drinking cheap beer.

Am I warping my sons because of that? I take my boys hiking. They help me in the garden. I read them books and tell them stories from my imagination at bedtime. We play Beatles and Who songs (poorly) on guitars. We play wiffleball, soccer, and (yes!) football in the backyard.

They respect their mother and sister. They know that a “real man” cooks dinner, vacuums, and does laundry. They know that “macho” behavior is destructive and obnoxious, and not to be confused with natural energetic boyish activities.

One of the most harmful things that our media- and entertainment- saturated culture has done is to pigeonhole what it means to “be a man.” I grew up with WWII veterans who - despite having defeated Hitler and Hirohito - weren’t above giving their grandson (me!) big hugs and kisses, taking me to a bookstore instead of a monster truck rally, and being the best damned men I knew.

Mansfield is one step away from “you kids get off my lawn!” This is what happens when you engage with the boogeyman instead of reality, just like the survey that Sisyphus posted - our perception of how other people live is tainted by what we see on TV news and entertainment shows. Just because sitcoms portray today’s young men as stupid idiots doesn’t mean they are.
jreighley on September 08 at 2:42 p.m.
Women for the most part are forced to grow up when they have children. Men can send a check a month (or stop working) and remain boys.

It isn’t right, but it is prevalent in our culture. And there is not much anyone can do about it unless they want to enforce morality…
sue on September 08 at 2:42 p.m.
So do cindy and kelli think it’s the fault of over-worked single moms?
moscow_minidoka on September 08 at 2:50 p.m.
“Men can send a check a month (or stop working) and remain boys.”

Do you see any evidence of this? Perhaps I’m living in a sheltered world, but the only families I know who have “absentee fathers” are in that situation because the father is dead. But then again, most of my friends are highly educated, love their wives, and are devoted to their children. They also became fathers on purpose because they wanted to start a family, and not because they’d had one-too-many Busch Lights and forgotten to bring a rubber…
Cindy_H on September 08 at 2:50 p.m.
Not me sue.
I think our society has become so child-centered that we are raising a lot of spoiled children of BOTH sexes who have a great deal of difficulty growing up, leaving home and accepting responsibilty for their lives.
Ask any business owner about the difficulty of hiring good employees who are in their 20’s. They want lots of pay and perks but showing up on time and working hard?
That’s another story.
Just my opinion.
Cindy_H on September 08 at 2:52 p.m.
PS: Toad, burly I don’t mind, but sweat I object to!
sue on September 08 at 2:55 p.m.
Thanks for the clarification, Cindy. It appeared that you were agreeing with mansfield’s premise that boys are being poorly raised by single moms who don’t provide male role models for them.
I’m not sure if 20 somethings are not as mature as they were when we were their age, or if it’s just that our age causes us to misremember. The youth of today criticism is age old, but to put the blame on women is more than a little irritating.
Sisyphus on September 08 at 2:57 p.m.
Nice Cindy. Much closer to the mark.
jreighley on September 08 at 3:04 p.m.
MM,
Yes, if you spend any time in the less affluent neighborhoods, you will see a substantial portion of the kids are in broken homes, or perhaps more commonly — never together homes.
There is middle class broken families as well - but in most cases these women who are used trivially and discarded wind up being poor, and often desperate — in many cases making them even more vulnerable to be taken advantage of again and again. It is ugly. It is real. And it is an unintended consequence of a lot of freedom loving liberal thought.
Freedom is good when people are responsible. It causes a lot of pain when people are irresponsible, or worse yet evil.
><(((*> on September 08 at 3:27 p.m.
And it is an unintended consequence of a lot of freedom loving liberal thought.

i knew it. too much freedom will lead to the end of days! “or worse yet evil.”
jreighley on September 08 at 4:20 p.m.
Abortion and the pill made it really easy for women to avoid pregnancy, but it really damaged the cultural idea that men shouldn’t make them that way unless they intended to support the family.

Now a man can play around all he wants, and if one of more of his partners gets pregnant, his friends and peers can feel sorry for him.. After all, the women has choices…

When we accept a coin of truth into our culture we have to recognize that people are going to see both sides of the coin. One side looks and sounds really good.. The other sounds evil.. But the idea is the idea, and there are going to be people seeing it from both perspectives.. They may not overtly tell you that is what they believe — But they don’t need to — their behavior is a better indicator than their words anyway.
toadman on September 08 at 4:29 p.m.
Nobody has explained to me what, exactly, “manly” means. I mean, I have a penis. Doesn’t that make me male enough? What more do I need?

Is there some sort of manual whereby I learn how best to crave meat, shun green veggies, laugh at art, and hate opera? On what page does it tell me I’m supposed to fart loudly and constantly scratch my undercarriage and crush beer cans on my forehead?

Or is that another manual entirely, because, that’s kinda what I’m getting “manly” means to some people.

;-)
sue on September 08 at 4:33 p.m.
How old are you jr? You sound like you’re about 90 yrs old, and would prefer the good old days when women didn’t have any measure of control of their own reproductive process. We have always had welfare, and abusive husbands, and walk-away boyfriends. The pill didn’t give men more excuses, just the same ones. I honestly can’t believe this is being presented as any kind of a logical argument in the year 2010. I see lots of good people around me, men and women, who can now plan for a responsible pregnancy, after they’ve both finished school, and have a career. They’re more mature, better partners and better parents. Thank God for birth control.
DennisMansfield on September 08 at 4:39 p.m.
Wow. who’d a thought so much ruckus over a few manly thoughts! (Ha)

For those of you who missed my secondary point (unintentionally or not), did you NOT see my emphasis that women do a fantastic job of mentoring children of both sexes?

I used the article to underscore that there are VAST battalions of men who are AWOL from their kids. Debate that….

C’mon, each of us need role models and the failure of men to show up for duty (burly and/or sweaty) has created a culture of fatherless men, GK Chesterton, in his day, called them “men without chests”.

When men bring themselves fully into the lives of little kids everyone benefits…kids and dads.

That was my point.

Think I’ll splash on some Mennon aftershave and go huntin’ now….
Den
stacyp on September 08 at 4:39 p.m.
Jreighly is correct re: people having choices. While I may not have had an initial “choice” about raising my two boys alone, I’ll continue to do so until I meet a man more like the MM variety of “manly”. Those boys are blessed.
jreighley on September 08 at 4:52 p.m.
Sue, Nah, I am <40

I have no problem with women being free and empowered at all. It is great, and it is right…

Men suck. And that needs to stop… It is the culture at large that needs to change it’s values to hold them responsible for their actions…

I see the damage that these boys are doing and it breaks my heart. It needs to stop. The culture at large needs to stop thinking that these sexual freedom matters are trivial. They aren’t. Freedom has to be linked to responsibility. If we decouple the two, we are going to have massive havoc, poverty, pain, and a cycle of abuse.

That is what we have done and that is what is happening.

The women tend to the nobility in the situation, the men are the irresponsible pigs. We need to bring back the culture in which men are scorned and corrected when they are irresponsible. I am afraid that our culture doesn’t have the moral backbone to do that these days..
CDA_Mom on September 08 at 4:58 p.m.
I agree that boys and girls both benefit from having fathers in their lives, but that is the extent of it. It would be great if both parents were involved with their children. My husband provides the type of nurturing to our daughter that I cannot reproduce. They have a relationship that I do not want to mimic, nor could I because I am not my husband. But I provide other things to our daughter. With my husband deployed right now, our daughter (6 years) is having to learn how to depend on me more. Since it is a temporary thing (only a year) she understands that the relationship with her father will occur again and it is not detremental to her (although the adjustment is hard). What either parent really teaches our children is what to expect of that gender. With absent fathers, I am afraid that girls and boys are taught that it is ok to not be present in a child’s life. Now this is sad
DennisMansfield on September 08 at 5:00 p.m.
I believe people (including men) WILL rise to the occasion, if given a clear understanding of the problem.

There is ultimately nothing new under the sun, so the idea that men are suddenly getting worse misses my original point.

I believe men WILL move in a direction to help kids (boys and girls) if society will at least acknowledge that a serious problem exists.

Therein lies the the real question: do we believe we even have a problem?

Den
jreighley on September 08 at 5:53 p.m.
I keep thinking about Sue’s accusation that I am an 90 year old oppressive geezer, and I thought of something worth discussing.

I don’t think anyone would doubt that the number of lifetime sexual partners that women have today is probably significantly higher than it was in the 40’s , 50’s or 60’s…

If we ask why, Do we really think that it is because they wanted to have all of those lovers? Or is it because it was culturally expected of them? I think most women crave long term romantic relationships.. But in order to get that they feel they need to perform, or somebody else will.

In general, “sexual liberation” has been oppressive to women.. In the worst way. And it has enabled men..

Call me a geezer if you want.. But I think that the old fashioned “married for better or for worse” is much more respectful than the cultural gang rape that we accept as normal today.
JIMMYMAC on September 08 at 6:12 p.m.
As someone who is actually a MAN that was raised primarily by a WOMAN - my proud Democrat grandmother - yes, there are many, many things that a child will actually miss out on as a result of not having a father around. That is not to say that I was not raised well because frankly, my grandmother is a SAINT and the most gracious human being I have ever met. And I could never and would never ask to be raised any differently. With that said, I was very fortunate to have many friends who’s dads were great role models for me and invested time into my life.

There are lots of “manly” things I have no clue about:I can’t change my own oil, I have no skills whatsoever with anything hardware/carpentry related and I have never bought an elk tag. On the other hand I was a very good athlete, know every lyric to every Rage Against the Machine song, work tirelessly to make sure my better half can stay at home and my wife is an 11 on a scale of 10. Needless to say, I can live with writing a check when my washer/dryer need a new part or my check engine light comes on. Just not my thing.

Overall, it’s vital to have a male presence for young men growing up. That’s not to say that a single mother or grandmother will not do a terrific job because we should all know better than to think otherwise.
jdanmike on September 08 at 6:18 p.m.
its amazing how with most of the postings here at HBO that anyone or group who is painted with a broad stroke of bigotry or misunderstanding is given the forgiveness of ‘they’re not all that way’ but this thread doesn’t seem to be the case. seems we are quick to judge the way someone raises their kids but their own kids are perfect. every kid is raised in different situations\enviroment. i’m sure we have seen situations where boys\kids would be better off being without the present male influence. we are looking for the ozzie nelson\ward cleaver father—but that was make believe-better known as t.v. as far as manly? huh?
Mr_Bloggy on September 08 at 7:33 p.m.
There are simple, pressing, irresistible biological-socio imperatives at play when you talk about boys being raised by chicks, dudes, escaped gorillas, carnies, pterodactyls, or whatthe*h*e*doublehockeysticksEVAH and those include an absolute unconditional acceptance of the following:

Farting: (including the dreaded “tent fart” in which one of two boys (typically not brothers but that’s how they learn it but they always end up knocking the crap out of each other) sleeping under the same covers will unleash a real nose burner of a butt bugling and then pull the covers over the other and force him to be in a sort of deadly oxygen-methane tent until he gags and fights his way out howling and shrieking and gagging.

Whitey Tighties - all young boys must learn the front from the back of their underwear while dressing, this is best accomplished via clear and simple binary color coding with white undies - “yellow in front/brown in back” and after the consistent accomplishment of underwear dressing discrimination skills using whitey tighties, a parent may progress to colored shorts.

The Hall of the Mountain Kingdom of the Magic Nose Goblins - Boogers are a nearly irresistible “off the menu” comestible if the parent does not permit (if not prompt and cue) alternatives to chewing them up in a repulsive display of auto-cannibalism. A shoebox they can draw colorful castle and fort shapes on the outside and keep their “Magic Nose Goblins” captive in until the “Mom Dragon” comes along and throws it in the trashcan is just one of many options to pick from.

There are so many more hints to raising boys the right way I could share. I should write a book of them. Maybe do something creative and helpful for a change.
kamm on September 08 at 9:12 p.m.
@jreighley
Feel free to speak your mind (although delusional) but understand that you seem dangerous to me. If you haven’t had children-good. If you have had children I hope they get to see a view of the world that is much different than yours.
toadman on September 08 at 9:49 p.m.
@Dennis - I got that about your peice, what confused me, and what always confuses me, is the whole definition of what determines “manly.”

Can a real man not weep at a film or a symphony? Can a real man not enjoy quiche and a nice baby greens salad? Can a real man not sing his infant softly to sleep? Can a real man not show fear and weakness?
JohnA on September 08 at 10:12 p.m.
“Men, men, men, men, men, manly men, ooh, ooh, ooh, hoo, ooh, hoo, hoo.”

Sorry, couldn’t help it this late at night. Especially with reports that the head ‘manly man’ of Two and Half Men, Charlie Sheen, will get some $1.8 million per show this year. If he’s an example of a ‘manly man’, I want no part of it.

« Back to Huckleberries Online

You must be logged in to post comments.
Please create a profile or log in here.

About this blog

D.F. Oliveria is a columnist and blogger for The Spokesman-Review. Huckleberries Online was judged the best 2008 Idaho newspaper blog by the Idaho Press Club. And the best 2007 news blog in the Pacific Northwest by the Society for Professional Journalist. Print Huckleberries is a past winner of the Herb Caen Memorial Column contest by the National Association of Newspaper Columnists. The Readership Institute of Northwestern University cited this blog as a good example of online community journalism.