As I was looking back at the box scores from the past couple year’s worth of WSU/UW basketball games yesterday, I was struck by how often Washington State had played 40 minutes of basketball against an aggressive, physical team without turning over the ball more than a handful of times.
In fact, in the past two years, the Cougars had more than 10 turnovers vs. the Huskies only in last year’s double overtime game. Last night, WSU passed that mark midway through the second half. And defeat followed. Such has been the case throughout this season, and probably will be the rest of the year as well. If WSU takes care of the ball, is efficient on offense and shoots respectably, it will be in games. Fail on any one, it won’t.
••••••••••
• So why am I harping so much on the offense? This is WSU isn’t it? Well, it’s because the defense is sound, despite UW’s 60 points and 48 percent shooting. Sure, there are matchup problems at certain spots and will be throughout the Pac-10 slate, but Klay Thompson has grasped the Cougars’ concepts, Aron Baynes and DeAngelo Casto have defended the rim to a degree it never was last season and the rest of the Cougars are, for the most part, playing solid. It’s only when the offense becomes timid and inefficient the defense seems to break down. (As he articulated last night, Taylor Rochestie sees it the other way, but it’s kind of the chicken-egg argument here. From our vantage point, the offensive end seems to be the key element this season.)
The one thing we haven’t seen this year is someone coming off the bench and nailing a couple 3s in key situations (think Chris Matthews two years ago) to get the offense going. Such a lift would have been helpful a bunch of times this season. Last year, with Derrick Low and Kyle Weaver able to go off in bunches, it wasn’t so critical. Now it is. I thought before the season started that guy would be Abe Lodwick. Maybe it still will be. Or maybe it’s Mike Harthun (though that’s a lot to ask of a true freshman). Or maybe all that’s needed is taking the ball out of Rochestie’s hands for a few minutes each game, let him run off screens and get open looks, like last season. We’ll see.
• Enough of that. Let’s get to the links. We had our game story, which you we’re able to read here last night, and John Blanchette’s column. From the West Side of the state, the Times had Bob Condotta’s gamer (plus Bob had a bunch of stuff on his blog) and Steve Kelley’s column. The News Tribune’s Don Ruiz had a game story while freelancer Howie Stalwick had his gamer in the Kitsap Sun. There was also this game story by Dan Raley on the P-I’s website, though I didn’t see Dan at the game.
• There was another Cougar-Husky tussle yesterday, and UW won that one as well, extending its winning streak in the women’s basketball rivalry to 27. The Times had this story while the New Tribune had this one.
• That’s all for this morning. The remainder of the Pac-10 gets back to work this afternoon and evening, with the game of the day being Arizona State visiting Cal. If the Bears win, they’ll come in to Pullman on Thursday night 2-0 in conference. Wouldn’t that be interesting? Well, we’ll be back later. Till then …
Steve Bergum covers EWU football and men's basketball, college baseball, and writes weekly golf column during the summer.
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Vince Grippi covers WSU sports and invites readers to share their thoughts on the sports news of the day.
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Greg Lee covers North Idaho high school sports and North Idaho College sports.
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Jim Meehan covers Gonzaga basketball, Whitworth football, Spokane Shock football and college volleyball.
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Dave Trimmer covers a variety of high school, college and professional sports and is the primary writer on the weekly Then & Now series.
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Mike Vlahovich covers high school sports, manages the weekly Prep Page and writes a column. Also writes the Washington Preps blog.
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Glenn on January 04 at 8:35 a.m.
It might be time for the young guys to get more time. Harthun and Capers need to get more experience. Harthun is definitely a shooter that they need.
Right now some of the older guys aren't getting it done. I liked Casto yesterday, but watching Forrest turn the ball over and Harmeling struggle to do anything productive was frustrating.
It will be interesting to watch the Cougs fanbase over the season. It's a rebuilding season, hopefully with an offense that evolves and improves through the season. Most of the people who have watched the Cougs for awhile can see this as similar to when the Bennett's first class came through, with an anemic offense and a still solid D.
Remember, it was ugly offensively then too. They will get better.
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Coug Forever on January 04 at 8:52 a.m.
Some positives. I thought that Aron played a good game with minimal fouling although the refs weren't calling a real close game. It was a good combo with Aron jamming up the middle and Casto swatting the shots away. Aron was also good from the line and shot well (I wish he would have jammed that dunk home with more authority). Rochestie was good with his layups and short shots and ball handling. Klay continues to show great promise.
Negatives. With Aron being double and tripled teamed someone has to be open and able to capitilize. Cross court passes suck. Long down the court passes suck. In the second half the offensive movement seemed to slow down as though the team had lost faith in their ability to make something happen.
Offensively with Aron staying out of foul trouble the focus should be on feeding him and then dishing to someone open or TR or Klay driving and dishing off.
Long term we need to find someone that can hit the 3 pointers with regularity.
So much for my .25.
Go Cougs and don't lose faith.
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coug79 on January 04 at 9:39 a.m.
Ouch. That was a painful second half. I disagree with Taylor, defense was not the problem yesterday. This group of Cougs was so tight on the offensive end you could practically hear them squeek moving down the court. I had a great seat, five rows from center court….and the “one more pass” was killing us. It was like the entire team was afraid to take an open shot. Time and again Baynes would kick the ball out off the double team and then three Cougs would pass up wide open looks, moving the ball around, until the Husky defense had time to recover. It wasn't basketball, it was hot potato. Finally, someone else (often Klay) would throw up a desperation shot as time expired on the shot clock. No matter how good the defense, you can't expect to win if you can't score. And once we lead hit double digits, you could see the team deflate. Think back to when Thomas missed a three from near the top of the key….then hustles down to get his own rebound on the baseline.
On another note…what a shame this game (and the next two important conference games) was played while WSU is on break. The student section was at least 50% general admission folks filling in open seats for absent students. Butch wasn't even in the house! Beasley wasn't nearly as loud as it should have been. Morever, the “Battle in Seattle” was during finals week. It would be helpful if the AD's office would get on the same page as the academic calendar so the students can help support the team.
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MikeSequim on January 04 at 11:04 a.m.
The first 2 shots by the Coug's in the second half set the tone. I called my Bro and told him he was right about the UW winning the game! Less than 2 minutes into the second half the game was over.
No shooters! Now you see how good Weaver, Cowgill and Lowe were. No inside out game. For whatever reason Baynes is limited to touches when he's in the game. Sooooo, if you don't have inside presence and only one ballhandler that can break down the defense, how do you expect to get open looks on the perimiter? Put that together with average forwards or wings who spend their energy on defense and theres no legs left for their shots. I believe thats why this first group of recruits for TB are more athletic. They will be able to handle both ends of intensity in time.
It's not that I'm critical of the older classes it's just what it is. You support what you have and progress from here. Lot's of bumps in the road ahead but always fixable with hard work!
By the way, I don't think 12,500 fans at the game would've made the difference. UW just played very well and they have some very good athletes. As always, JMO
Mike, Sequim
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garlandcoug on January 04 at 11:38 a.m.
As I was watching the game I noticed what others are commenting on; no players running off screens to take shots. In years past much of the offense was based on that, it would be a very good question for Tony on why the change. I suppose the players on this team either have not learned that skill, or just not able perfom that way. On the positive side Capers seemed more relaxed with the ball yesterday, so maybe we will see as Vince suggested Talyor running off screens.
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gslbball on January 04 at 12:16 p.m.
It's not that the Cougs are a bad team, but the fact is that the Huskies have been coming together in recent weeks. I'm not a UW fan, but that team just might be a lot better than most have predicted. The Cougs offensive woes are very troubling.
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RobE on January 04 at 1:45 p.m.
Huskies really played aggressive on D yesterday, something I haven't seen out of them in a couple years.
I think Vince nailed it…turnovers. The last two seasons we regularly kept our turnovers in single digits. This season, against good teams, we near double digits by the half. Combine that with no outside threat on offense, and we're really in for a rough winter.
Plenty for this group to work on, can't wait to see what adjustements are made for Thursday.
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mgcoug2 on January 04 at 1:53 p.m.
Vince, It seems to me that WSU is trying to run an offense that relies on players with the ability to handle the ball and keep the offensive flow going (last year they had Low, Weaver, Rochestie and even Cowgill who kept the offensive going) This year they often have 3 players on the floor at the same time who really are not comfortable dribbling (Harmeling, Baynes, and Caleb) and that really makes it hard for the offense to thrive. They also do not utilize the high post like they did last year with Weaver and the offense has become a lot easier to guard. Between that and yesterday's complete lack of energy from many of the players it is frustrating to watch. I knew this would be a year of building but all the seniors off last years team got consistent minutes early in their careers, so given how poor the offense is and the lack of energy why are not high energy players like Capers getting a bit more run? Just some questions that popped into my head watching the last 10 games or so. I trust our coaching staff to get the most out of the team but we are often playing 4 guys at the same time who won't be here next year and despite their career contributions do not seem to be a good lineup on the floor together.
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RobHH on January 04 at 4:39 p.m.
Looks like OSU is going to beat SC. Crazy year in the Pac Ten. SC got a good win Friday, now a bad loss.
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MikeSequim on January 04 at 4:57 p.m.
Well now! UNC loses to BC and evidently Oregon State is not the door mat! What other tidings ae awaiting the PAC? If i'm TB, I'm spinning the OSU win in WSU's favor. Tough game for UCLA at Oregon, also.
Hang in there Coug's.
Mike, Sequim
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JugHead on January 04 at 7:51 p.m.
If we all keep calling this a rebuilding year, what does that make next year? A complete overhaul? Our frontcourt players for next year are Casto and ??????. Enquist? Boke? Not a lot of meat on those guys. Maybe Watson will bulk up in his redshirt year. I'm not pointing this out to be negative but I was really hoping we could hang on to respectability this year knowing that next year would be an extremely young team. If this year falls apart we are most likely looking at 2 years of mediocrity back-to-back which starts to drop an up-and-coming program off the radar a little. That being said, and to end on a positive note, I think Casto and Thompson are going to be a couple of the all-time Coug greats at their respective spots. If I were Bennett I would give some consideration to starting Casto at the 4. I am very impressed with his composure for a freshman. Obviously his defense is superb, but I also think he has an offensive game that is going to develop into something special.
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Tom_R on January 04 at 7:54 p.m.
A comment from me here regarding Glenn's blog above in which he said he was frustrated by …watching, Forrest turn the ball over…” If Glenn would check the stats. for the game, he would find that Forrest played 35 minutes and turned the ball over just once.
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MikeSequim on January 04 at 8:06 p.m.
BINGO, right on JugHead!
Mike, Sequim
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scottB on January 05 at 12:29 a.m.
This years offense is very reminiscent of the Dick Bennett years, not the Tony Bennett years. that likely has a lot to do with the whole “rebuilding” thing. So I would echo very much Vince's comment as well as several of you commenters that this team has the defense thing nailed, our issue is really about having terribly stagnant offensive play especially from the guards.
I cant fault in any way Klay or TR, they are both playing quality ball in the offense they are told to play. The number 3 spot of Nik/Daven is yes, something that needs big attention and I would really love to see a game where those to guys just get the night off to check their heads and hearts, maybe then we could see what capers/lodwick/harthum could do with some quality minutes.
Watching the games, a big red flag for me is the lack of off ball movement from the guards during our offense. Again, I think that's what the coaches have drawn up, and maybe that's based on their assessment of physical ability/talent… If you go back to last year though and look at all the may games when TR was shining at the point driving, dishing, and knocking them down, in my opinion he was able to do that because of Low. Low ran all over the court non-stop for the full duration of the shot clock. he'd run from one wing to the other either under the hoop or around the top… that action would pull the D from one side to the other commonly leaving a weak side TR could exploit. he could drive to the hoop and if the lane closed the rest of the D was off balance and he could dish or kick-out.
Now watch this year, Klay and the 3spot(Nik/Daven) are stagnant for an awful lot of the clock each possession. They slowly meander to their set spots and slowly work around the top to help out. Low would have been running non-stop as soon as the ball crossed mid court causing commotion and thus creating open shots for others or himself.
mgcoug2 brought up the offensive set they would run last year with Weaver at the high post. Why not try that again this year with Caleb at the high post. Contrary to Glenn's comment he has done rather well protecting the ball and he's pretty much a sure thing from 12-15 feet if someone left him open. you could then let TR run around the court and pick up the open shot off a screen from Baynes. Just a thought.
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scottB on January 05 at 1:07 a.m.
To JugHead, regarding Baynes departure and the hole that leaves… Boeke is supposed to be that replacement, But much like Casto is getting time from freshman day 1, the understanding I had was that the coaching staff is in hopes to trade one aussie for another and be able to play Brock Motum in there with Casto. Historically WSU has commonly played without a real 5spot, so I would expect next year you will likely see a pair of 4spots on the court rather often, one of them being Casto and the other being an array of folks including Motum as well as possibly David Chadwick sharing minutes with Boeke/Enquist.
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rufus on January 05 at 7:34 a.m.
we really miss the 3 point shooting of derick low … team will get better– playing alot of freshman
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garlandcoug on January 05 at 8:48 a.m.
I think Capers is close to contributing more, he seemed more relaxed. Harthun is still frenetic, he does not look relaxed and in the flow of the game. I had hoped that Lodwick would be able to contribute more, and it seems that Nik/Daven needed Derrick/Kyle to be successful. I don't think all is lost for this year, but this team needs to find it's way in a hurry.
Jughead's right next year there are more question marks than this year. I wonder if Tony will look to JC help?
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mgcoug2 on January 05 at 11:11 a.m.
I also would like to see Capers play more although I am sure the coaches have there reasons but honestly the way we played vs. UW was the worst I have seen a WSU team play over an entire game since the Bennett's got here. I already touched on the offense in a previous post, but the defensive rotations were horrendous and UW is not a good basketball team right now although they did play very physical and have a lot of talent on their roster, but outside of Dentmon running off the same staggered baseline screen for wide open looks several times is an example of the defensive problems. Basically to me I feel like they have several players who are playing to the system instead of using the system to play. I still think the team can have a nice year and improve a lot I would just like to see a few different lineups as almost every time we have the Baynes Caleb Harmeling/Nic, Rochestie with whoever lineup on the floor in the 2nd half of close games against good competition we get run.
People have been posting about how next year will be but I am actually more optimistic about next year. it will all hinge on what they type of PG play they get but I could see a lineup of the incoming PG (if he is close to as advertised), Capers, Thompson Casto with another post we have lots of decent options (Watson, Enquist the Aussie that signed etc) and Nic filling a 6th man type role for the team. If nothing else that will be more athleticism than the team has ever had on the floor and Casto, Capers and Thompson have all shown effort and ability on the defensive end.
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TommyCoug on January 05 at 1:58 p.m.
One thing is a “fact!” The Pac-10 is not a strong conference in basketball this year. It is down…probably across the team board, except for maybe Oregon State.
To get blasted, at home, by 20 points by your cross state rivals…who proved they were better Saturday that the Cougs…that are not a really great top 3 team in the Pac-10. And if they are, the conference is in worse shape than any of us even imagine.
That means that we all had better wake up and smell something…because the current brand of Cougar basketball is looking bleak…I don't care how you try to color or justify it.
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