December 7, 2009 in City

Spokane, STA weigh downtown trolleys

Mike Prager The Spokesman-Review

Talk of developing a trolley or streetcar system in downtown Spokane is being re-energized this month.

Spokane Transit Authority and city officials are teaming up to study alternatives for downtown mass transit.

The public is invited to join a “sounding board” to advise local officials on the best transit alternatives and routes.

Electric trolley buses with overhead wiring are a possibility. Streetcars on rails will be considered, too, along with conventional buses.

The idea is to get the Spokane area in line for federal grants that may become available for transit.

“Federal funding is going to be spent somewhere,” said Susan Meyer, chief executive officer for STA, and a good place may be Spokane.

Guided by local officials and citizens, the Downtown Transit Alternatives Analysis will employ a consultant. STA is using $360,000 in federal and state grant funds to pay for the analysis, which should take about 15 months.

The idea of trolley service in Spokane dates back at least 15 years, when STA bought replica trolleys to shuttle through downtown to the Spokane Arena. Those trolleys are being replaced with new hybrid diesel-electric buses next Monday.

Meyer said that downtown-area businesses and institutions have pointed to the need for greater transit connections in the University District including Gonzaga, hospital facilities, county government buildings, the convention center and inner-city neighborhoods.

The study area is bounded by Mission Avenue to the north, Perry Street to the east, 14th Avenue to the south and Latah Creek to the west.

Mayor Mary Verner is joining Meyer in co-chairing the effort.

In a press release, Verner said “to be a vibrant city we must promote multiple modes of transportation.”

One arm of the study will include a stakeholders group, which will include representatives from Avista, the Downtown Spokane Partnership, Washington State University, the Public Facilities District and Spokane Regional Transportation Council.

Residents interested in serving on the sounding board are asked to apply at spokanetransit.com or by calling (509) 343-1653 to request application materials.

Results of the study are to be incorporated into STA’s long-range plan for a high-performance rapid transit network across the metro area.

A similar alternatives analysis is expected in about a year for the south Spokane Valley corridor with an eye toward finding a less costly alternative to light rail.

Along with other alternatives, Meyer wants the agency to study the possibility of electric rapid transit on separated traffic alignment, which can be accomplished for about 15 percent of the cost of light rail. That Spokane Valley corridor study would update work previously done for a light rail project.

Wandermere closure

Wandermere Road between U.S. Highway 395 and the Wandermere golf course has been closed for construction of a new North Spokane Corridor interchange. The closure, through March 1, is needed for construction of a pair of bridges for the interchange.

Winter village at Plaza

STA is hosting a Winter Arts Village this weekend at the bus Plaza downtown on West Riverside Avenue.

Live music, dance, art demonstrations and children’s activities are planned during the free event, which runs noon to 9 p.m. Friday, noon to 8 p.m. Saturday and noon to 5 p.m. Sunday.

Artists will be selling their work, including soaps, candles, jewelry and crafts.

For more information, go to spokanetransit.com.

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Comments 08

Eight comments on this story so far. Add yours!

southie4573 on December 07 at 10:50 a.m.
This sounds like a great idea - oh wait Spokane does not do common sense very well.

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spokanecougar on December 07 at 3:29 p.m.
Great, lets waste time and money to talk about something that will never happen. They need to be talking at light rail and not make the same mistake Seattle is doing. You might think it is costly now, but in 20-30 years or whatever when this area has double the people it has now everyone will be complaining about why it was not done sooner when it cost less. Face it, this is something that needs to be done with a line from CDA to the Airport/Cheney area and then a North-South line from Deer Park to South Spokane county.

Lets just take a look over at Seattle and how useless their new streetcars are, how empty they are and how much money it cost to have those empty streetcars. Lets look at Seattle and how long it took them to start building their light rail and now since the area is so over developed they are realizing how hard and expensive it is compared to if they had just done it 30-40 years ago when they first tried getting it built. Now it will take 30-40 years just to have it finished they say, congrats Seattle on your 50+ year plan for light rail.

I know the city and the STA are known for their lack of decision making or just plain stupid decisions - the Downtown Bus plaza being one where the only people that use it are the idiot wannabe thugs and the homeless it seems - but we need to be smarter then Seattle was. Lets take a page out of Portland's book and see how they are doing their transportation system, they started early enough and it is now one of the most used and well run light rail and public transportation systems in the country.

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Megan_B on December 07 at 3:57 p.m.
We need to not only look at what is cheaper now (“electric rapid transit on separated traffic alignment, which can be accomplished for about 15 percent of the cost of light rail”) but also what will save money and cost in the LONG run. Which is easier to maintain? Repair? Operate? Andy makes a lot of good points, it's important that we look at the good and bad examples of other nearby cities and calculate their results into our decisions.

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force_vector on December 07 at 4:50 p.m.
This city has no need for an expansion of public transportation, and certainly not a trolly system. Traffic here, even downtown, is almost always light. If there was a prediction of a massive population expansion for Spokane then I could see why some would entertain the idea for the future. But let's face it, Spokanes best days are behind it and there is no reason to believe the population here will dramatically increase. Save the money, or if you must spend it, hire more officers since all the current ones are busy catching speeders and nothing more.

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Megan_B on December 08 at 9:43 a.m.
Not everyone can afford to drive, not everyone is old enough to drive, and not everyone lives within walking distance of where they need to go. I am very thankful for STA. as a student I rode the bus frequently from school to work, and to home. I would argue we need more mass transit, not less. Some routes are overcrowded, such as Division, and could add more buses. And they need to be extended into later hours so that students and workers who have to stay out later than 11 (10 for some routes, and only 8 on Sundays) have a ride home. Not to mention the possibility that late night buses could diminish a few possible DUIs from occurring.

Besides many high school and college students who utilize STA, I know it is also used by a lot of senior citizens, and persons with disabilities who cannot otherwise drive themselves around. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a relative willing to be one's personal cab driver.

Now another idea I wish would be entertained is a light rail form here to Seattle… they are planning on building one from Portland to Seattle, a similar one form here to there would make commuting so much easier and cost effective than buying a plane ticket. I am speaking for several people I know who fly over to work during the week and back here to Spokane for the weekends.

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force_vector on December 08 at 12:35 p.m.
Great idea Megan, let's just build light rails everywhere! Why? Because it's so much more cost effective? Compared to what, exactly? Here's the thing with these goofy ideas; those that would have to pay for it (tax payers) aren't the ones who would likely use it (students, seniors, ect.). The only reason to spend Billions of dollars on a transportation system like that is if it would help facilitate the flow of revenue and and business within the region. The Puget Sound area has a need for this type of infrastructure because Billions of dollars are generated in Seattle/Portland. Is that true for Seattle/Spokane? I doubt it.

High School kids may like the STA, seniors might like the STA and I'm glad they have a way of getting around. But seriously, this part of the State cannot afford to spend money on things like this because of how the cards have fallen over the course of decades. Spokane simply cannot afford “luxury” items because the regional revenue levels required for them is simply not there.

Bottom line is: if you think light rail and expensive mass-transit projects are cool, go to a place that has them (and of course pay your extra taxes to pay for them). Otherwise, face the reality that Spokane is not, and will never be, Seattle. It just wasn't in the cards.

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Megan_B on December 08 at 1:20 p.m.
Seniors have paid taxes all of their life, and most of them continue to pay high property taxes. Students pay taxes just as much as the “working class,” especially since most of them have to hold down multiple jobs in order to keep up with their rising tuition payments. I for one, had 4 while going to school full-time.

The majority of of flights coming in and out of the Spokane airport are to and from Seattle. Almost any long-distance trip by plane from here has to go through Seattle first. A light rail may be expensive initially, but if you charged just a little less than a plane ticket to Seattle, or from Seattle to Spokane, you could turn it into a for-profit private system.

Yes, Spokane's regional revenue levels are low. We are below the nation's poverty level, higher than the nation's average for drug usage levels, etc. Instead of just accepting these dismal facts as something that can't be changed, why not open doorways to solutions? If it were easier and less expensive to travel back and forth, job prospects would coincide. And not only that, but we could also count on some of that revenue being generated on the other side of the state, being spent on this one.

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force_vector on December 08 at 3:39 p.m.
Indeed seniors have paid taxes their whole lives. However, the revenue generated by their potential use of a system you propose would be unable to even account for a fraction of its cost. However, I have to disagree with the claim that most students pay taxes. While there may be witholdings on a per-check basis, in many cases that money is returned due to the low overall income level. Add onto that the EIC that many receive in addition, and it equals a net negative tax situation.

As for the for-profit arguement, let me begin here; the Seattle lightrail project cost an average of 35 million dollars per mile. Assuming the same cost for Spokane to Seattle line at 300 (approx) miles you are left with a total cost of 10.5 billion dollars. Analyze things further with respect to airline ticket costs, assuming an average two-way ticket costs 250 dollars, and you would need 42 million people to utilize the system at that rate before it would break even. But wait, maintenance of these lines are expensive, very expensive, so you would need yet more people to utilize it to break even. Now, let's assume you could make the trip in 3 hours, that would mean 8 round-trips per day, or 2880 trips per year. Let's assume further you could get 200 people onboard for each trip. That's 576,000 people per year (assuming that the cars are always full). Doing the math, it would take 73 years to break even, without taking into account maintenance and upkeep costs. There is no way 576,000 people would make the trip this way per year. The popluation of Spokane is only 462,000 and the population of the whole state is roughly 6.5 million (most in the Puget Sound region, and many of whom have never even been to Spokane because they have no desire, despite living in Washington their whole lives).

So, in a nut shell, bad idea. Spokane needs to responsibly address the issues that you stated. To do that it will need to take a long look in the mirror and accept the changes it will need to make, both physical and mental, if it ever hopes to be a prosperous place. Attempting to capitalize on the jobs in Seattle will do no good, as many of those high-income jobs require education beyond what those here have. A complete change of mentality is needed, and since I've been here, I have seen no evidence that it will be coming anytime soon.

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