Spokane7
61°
December 15, 2010 in Nation/World
House votes to repeal ban on open gays in military
WASHINGTON — The House voted today to repeal the “don’t ask, don’t tell policy that for 17 years has forced gays desiring to serve in the military to conceal their sexual identity.
The 250-175 vote propels the issue to the Senate for what could be the last chance for now to end the 1993 law that forbids recruiters from asking about sexual orientation while prohibiting soldiers from acknowledging that they are gay.
It’s “the only law in the country that requires people to be dishonest or be fired if they choose to be honest,” said Rep. Jared Polis, D-Colo.
Democratic leaders in the Senate say they are committed to bringing the bill to the floor before Congress adjourns for the year. But they are challenged by opposition from some Republicans and a daunting agenda that includes finishing work on legislation to fund the government and ratifying a nuclear arms treaty with Russia.
Failure to overturn the policy this year could relegate the issue to the back burner next year when Republicans, who are far less supportive of allowing openly gay individuals to serve in the military, take over the House and gain strength in the Senate.
“Now is the time for us to act,” said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and “close the door on a fundamental unfairness in our nation.”
Many Republicans, led by Sen. John McCain of Arizona, argue that it would be a mistake for the military to undergo a major cultural change while the nation is fighting two wars.
Implementation of any new policy should begin “when our singular focus is no longer on combat operations or preparing units for combat,” said Rep. Howard “Buck” McKeon of California, top Republican on the Armed Services Committee.
The issue also has split the military. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and other senior military leaders support lifting the restrictions on gay service, pointing to a recent Pentagon study showing that most people in uniform don’t object to serving with gays. But the head of the Marine Corps, Commandant Gen. James Amos, repeated his opposition this week, saying that lifting the ban during wartime could cost lives. “I don’t want to lose any Marines to the distraction,” he said.
The White House, in issuing a statement in support of the repeal, stressed that the change would go into effect only after the president, the secretary of Defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff certify that implementation is consistent with military readiness, recruiting and retention and unit cohesion.
The House last May voted 234-194 in favor of repeal legislation as part of a larger defense bill. The measure has stalled twice in the Senate, where Republicans have objected to taking up the defense bill laded with contentious issues, including “don’t ask, don’t tell.”
Joe Solmonese, the president of the gay rights group Human Rights Campaign said today’s vote means the House has confirmed for the second time what military leaders, most troops and the American public have been saying, that “the only thing that matters on the battlefield is the ability to do the job.”
“It is up to the Senate to consign this failed and discriminatory law to the dustbin of history,” Solmonese added.
The House, in introducing the stand-alone bill, sought to avoid the complications of combining it with a general defense bill. Sens. Susan Collins, R-Maine, and Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., are also promoting a stand-alone bill in the Senate and supporters say they have the 60 votes for passage if they can get it to the Senate floor.
A major hurdle has been a Republican pledge to block all legislation until the Senate completes work on tax cut and government funding. The Senate today passed the compromise on extending tax cuts worked out by the White House and Republicans.
More than 13,500 service members have been dismissed under the 1993 law.
The Obama administration, while supporting the repeal, is appealing the ruling of a California federal judge that the ban on gays serving openly in the military is unconstitutional. The administration says Congress should overturn the policy. But gay rights groups say they will shift their focus back to the courts if Congress fails to act.
The bill is H.R. 2965.
© Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Obama honors Medal of Freedom recipients as heroes 
Bruce (aka thatoneguy) on December 15 at 11:43 a.m.
I’ve been trying not to be too knee-jerk judgmental on this whole DADT thing, even though my status as a homosexual-liberal-socialist-etc. is pretty well established on this forum, and my views — it’d be nice if it happened now, but if it doesn’t it will happen eventually — are not a secret. But I have a hard time taking this particular argument seriously:
“But the head of the Marine Corps, Commandant Gen. James Amos, repeated his opposition this week, saying that lifting the ban during wartime could cost lives. “I don’t want to lose any Marines to the distraction,” he said.”
Really?
fishinjay on December 15 at 11:56 a.m.
It’s a bogus argument the Commandant is making. It is a fact that there are already gay service men and women. The only thing the law would change is whether or not you know who’s who.
I too find it hard to believe that the simple fact of “knowing” will cause the bedlam that McCain and others fear. If gay service men and women are serving honorably now, why would knowing they are gay make a difference?
johnclarke on December 15 at 12:11 p.m.
It’s really a non-issue turned into an issue by people that are probably in the closet. People actually serving CLEARLY don’t see it as a problem.
hawken on December 15 at 12:48 p.m.
Clarke “CLEARLY” knows that he is dishonest in his statement. Namely, that ….
“People actually serving CLEARLY don’t see it as a problem.”
Look at these actual responses from the military on the questions as to whether of not DADT should be repealed by Congress.
Clarke as seen all of this before on other strings where I have posted them.
Here’s what the troops actually say about the question:
_____________________
Note that 63% of the troops, across the board, oppose overturning DADT.
There seems to be a rather large contradiction between this, and what the Secretary of Defense and the Joint Chiefs say.
But, of course, the Secretary of Defense and Joint Chiefs serve at the pleasure of the President. Don’t they.
The Coast Guard was low at 59%, against overturning DADT…. understandably, since they are not combat troops on a foreign field.
The Army: 61.38% oppose the repeal of DADT
The Navy: 62.02 % oppose the repeal of DADT
The Marines were high at 68%, against overturning DADT. Since they are often the first ones in combat on a foreign field.
Then, we can add to those numbers, 3 of 4 commanding generals of the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines whom testified before Congress that they are opposed to overturning DADT.
The actual questions and answers can be at the link below.
http://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF10K46.pdf
_________________________________________
Clarke is known for such misrepresentation of the facts. See for yourself the actual results.
MrNatural on December 15 at 12:57 p.m.
The Family Research Council and the Center for Security Policy released results of a survey based on questionable methodology. The survey, which purportedly shows that 63 percent of military family respondents oppose allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military, conflates two different types of families: those that include active duty members and those that include veterans only.
But there is a significant difference between these two types of families: those that include veterans only, but not active duty members, are much older and therefore more likely to oppose gays in the military. Analysis of the 2009 American Community Survey by Dr. Gary J. Gates shows that among households that include a family member who is a veteran, 65% of adults are aged 50 or older. Among households that include a family member who is on active duty, only 7.6% of adults are aged 50 or older.
Virtually all surveys suggest that support for allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military declines with age. So by including families with a veteran but not an active duty member, the survey biases findings toward showing less support for repealing “don’t ask, don’t tell” than would have been the case if it had included just families with active duty members.
Although FRC/CSR do not report the breakdown of active-duty versus veteran-only households that participated, they do note that 71% of the survey’s respondents are 50 years of age or older, thus indicating that a large percent of participating households were veteran-only. According to the Pentagon’s 2008 Demographics Profile of the Military Community, only 5.5% of currently-serving, active duty enlisted service members are aged 41 or over, and only 9.5% of spouses of currently-serving, active duty enlisted service members are aged 41 or over. The FRC/CSR sample, in other words, is not reflective of the profile of a current military family.
Dr. Gates is Williams Distinguished Scholar at the Williams Institute, UCLA School of Law. His analysis is based on the Public Use Microdata Sample of the American Community Survey.
Alfredo on December 15 at 1:03 p.m.
More anti-gay drivel from Hawken
The only reason there is any objection to gays serving openly in the military is because of people like you who continue to openly hate and put others down for either being gay or for supporting gays.
Obviously it’s all about reading into the numbers for you instead of doing the right thing, if it were up to you, African Americans would still be chained up on your farm doing your dirty work for free.
This is a civil rights issue, to heck with numbers in the first place.
johnclarke on December 15 at 1:13 p.m.
Lordy Hawken, are you even going to TRY and tell the truth? Seriously, man up and stop your wild accusations. And again Hawken, please share with us - what branch did you serve in? What gives you the right to determine who serves in the military? I myself, as a veteran - proudly served beside gay and lesbian troops. I support their right to serve openly. See the Pentagon survey below, as opposed to Hawken’s “survey” from ccadvertising? Hawken, you need to seek some help for your pathological lying.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-dadt-survey-a1.eps-20101201,0,5552102.graphic
hawken on December 15 at 1:16 p.m.
Yes…. Natural…. it’s always a “questionable methodology” when it opposes one’s own world view.
I notice that in your post, that Gates makes some assumptions to get to his conclusion.
Moreover,,,, here’s more on the Williams Institute:
In 2008, the Williams Institute participated in a National Gay and Lesbian Task Force (NGLTF) conference. Leaders from the institute led workshops, which included “Using Research to Pass LGBT Anti-Discrimination Laws.”
The NGLTF also sponsored a workshop titled “Using the Thinking: How research has a role to play in the fight for LGBT equality.”
Clearly, the Williams Institute exists to push the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender agenda by using “research” as a weapon for cultural change.
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/read/3763/here-we-go-again-gays-misleading-with-statistics/
Back to the actual survey. It speaks for itself.
hawken on December 15 at 1:20 p.m.
Clarke: you post is nothing more than a pie chart, published by the LA times, apparently provided by the Pentagon….
Post the actual questions and survey results to support your position, as I did. If you have them.
Alfredo on December 15 at 1:23 p.m.
hawken = hate
Go back under your rock you paid shill for the GOP
MrNatural on December 15 at 1:26 p.m.
Yes hawkin…for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction…
hawken on December 15 at 1:32 p.m.
Clarke….
let’s not loose sight of my point.
Your assertion:
“People actually serving CLEARLY don’t see it as a problem.”
….is dishonest and fraudulent as I have demonstrated.
hawken on December 15 at 1:44 p.m.
Here’s more I just learned about the Williams Institute:
“The Williams Institute is described as a “national research center on sexual orientation and gender identity law and policy.” It is named after gay millionaire Charles R. Williams and LGBT agenda financier, who has given the institute more than $11 million since 2001.”
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/read/3763/here-we-go-again-gays-misleading-with-statistics/
The workshop “Queerly Academic - Building Allies across LGBTQ and Racial Identities in School Settings,” will teach gay, bisexual or transgender school officials and students how to recruit straight allies in working against “homophobia” or “heterosexism” on campuses.
“A Dialog With Youth About Sex: Talking About Sex and Sexual Freedom,” is hosted by Aubrie Dillon of the Woodhull Freedom Foundation. This workshop will encourage youth to set their own goals for achieving sexual freedom.
In 2004, The Woodhull Freedom Foundation joined with the NGLTF in a project to
1. Analyze America’s age of consent laws and to work to change these laws;
2. Study America’s laws on public lewdness and to work to have these laws altered.
http://www.narth.com/docs/workshops.html
MrNatural on December 15 at 1:49 p.m.
The Pentagon released a long awaited study investigating the potential impacts of repealing the military ban on openly gay soldiers serving in the armed forces.
The Pentagon report comes to the conclusion that repealing the “don’t ask, don’t tell” (DADT) law will not cause overall harm to the military but might cause temporary disruptions.
On the whole, however, the report showed that a majority of active-duty service members and their families do not care if gay men and lesbians served openly. It cites a survey of active-duty and reserve troops that found that more than 70 percent of respondents said the effect of lifting the ban would be positive, mixed or nonexistent. (That survey consisted of responses from some 115,000 troops and 44,200 military spouses to more than a half million questionnaires distributed last summer by an independent polling firm.)
hawken on December 15 at 1:50 p.m.
Natural: Concerning your cite, @
Mr. Natural on December 15 at 12:57 p.m.
and your assessment of:
Dr. Gates is Williams Distinguished Scholar at the Williams Institute, UCLA School of Law.
Please review carefully my previous post:
hawken on December 15 at 1:44 p.m.
MrNatural on December 15 at 1:59 p.m.
I have hawken…I have friends who are gay who have rallied resources to protect their civil rights.
I understand your pov and subsequent distain for them…I suppose.
I was countering your loaded deck resource with one of my own (as supplied by one of my friends). Regardless the Pentagon survey will serve as the most legitimate and unbiased as far as I’m concerned.
johnclarke on December 15 at 1:59 p.m.
Ok Hawken, in spite of my pledge to challenge your moronic rants - I’m going to have to give up on this particular topic; it’s worse than arguing with a child. The difference being, even a child eventually understands being wrong. The Pentagon survey speaks for itself. You are posting right wing claptrap from “traditionalvalues.org.”
So, what branch did you serve in ? Considering your age, how did you avoid the draft? Student deferment ?
hawken on December 15 at 2:00 p.m.
Natural:
The troops and the 3/4 of the commanding generals, Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines, don’t agree with the results published by the Pentagon. As I have demonstrated.
So please. Stop with the fraudulent, nonsense that you, Clarke and others are falsely asserting…. Namely,,,,,
“People actually serving CLEARLY don’t see it [repeal of DADT] as a problem.”
hawken on December 15 at 2:04 p.m.
Clarke: You should have given up before you made your demonstrable, dishonest, fraudulent statement….
“People actually serving CLEARLY don’t see it [repeal of DADT] as a problem.”
Which I have demonstrated.
johnclarke on December 15 at 2:07 p.m.
Oh Hawken, just come out of the closet and get it over with.
johnclarke on December 15 at 2:10 p.m.
What branch Hawken? Student deferment? Medical?
MrNatural on December 15 at 2:23 p.m.
Yeah whatever Hawken…
I would like to say that my son who is currently serving has given me some credible insight to the dynamic of the repeal of DADT…The vast majority of younger troops don’t really give a damn but they are pressured by a few vocal C.O.’s to be prejudiced. Interestingly these are the same C.O.’s who believed they were fulfilling the prophecy regarding Armageddon during the Iraq invasion. (His words not mine).
Good Luck
iamrunner on December 15 at 2:35 p.m.
Hawken… How about you just cite the page, and paragraph where you are pulling your results from in the survey. It seems real odd that every major news website and newspaper are quoting drastically different results from what you are citing.
But I guess you haven’t actually read the full report. In not one of the questions that were asked that takes into account all off the respondants was a negative view over 50%. Hmmm kind of hard to match that 70% you were quoting earlier. Very troubling when you call someone’s else post “demonstrable, dishonest, fraudulent statement….” when your own statement matches that exactly. Ps. The statement that you blast was tied to a link/citation which presents the data exactly as how the report the survey displays the data. Hmmm… maybe want to apologize on that one???
johnclarke on December 15 at 2:46 p.m.
Oh, I don’t need an apology from Hawken. Like all veterans, I know that he owes his freedoms to me. Without people willing to serve (gays and lesbians included) in his place, Hawken would not be enjoying his freedom of speech, even though it is from the safety of his keyboard. Unfortunate that he feels the need to pass judgement on brave men and women, yet he is unwilling to serve. Sad, really.
liberal_in_right_wing_land on December 15 at 5:22 p.m.
Haken is nothing but a pathetic online bully. He yells and belittles anyone who disagrees with him, then yells at people when they point out all the lies and mistakes he posts. I urge everyone to click on his screen name and read through some of his hateful statements. He’s just a pathetic, old white man who is hanging by a thread to the last of his hateful agenda that will soon die out when him and the rest of these old hateful people die out.
liberal_in_right_wing_land on December 15 at 5:23 p.m.
Sorry, thats Hawken, not Haken. But like it matters, I hate replying to anything he says since it just gives him a rise and encourages him to continue to spread his hate.
Pat O'Leary on December 15 at 5:50 p.m.
Loud-mouth Hawken makes a lot of noise for one who has never served his country. He should sign up for a hitch or two and then maybe his point of view will be legitimate….. other than that he is nothing but another hate-filled right-wing looney-tune who hates anyone that is different than he.
misjustice on December 15 at 6:38 p.m.
Chickenhawken…never served, never will.
I am a veteran and HAVE served, alongside many fine people. Some of whom were homosexual. Didn’t matter to me what the sexual orientation was of my fellow soldiers and it shouldn’t matter to an overblown bloviator like Chickenhawken.
DADT will be repealed, the only question is when.
; )
Bruce (aka thatoneguy) on December 15 at 8:46 p.m.
misjustice - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chicken+hawk OMG LOL
misjustice on December 15 at 8:53 p.m.
@ thatoneguy; OMG!!! ROFLMAO!!! I didn’t mean it THAT way! But it’s funny as hell that you found it in the urban dictionary…
I meant it along the lines of AWOL W and 5 deferments Sick Dick Cheney; never served in a war, they were too chicken, but had no prob sending other people’s kids off to die for their lies.
Thanks for passing that along! I needed a good strong laugh!
; )
greenlibertarian on December 15 at 8:54 p.m.
“Hawken, you need to seek some help for your pathological lying.”
Pathological liars and trolls don’t change except with extremely high voltage electroshock therapy, or, a lobotomy.
DADT harms the readiness and effectiveness of our troops in fulfilling their missions. If you support DADT, you are harming our brave troops, and are a traitor.
Get the hell out of my country.
Recent COMBAT veterans and active duty COMBAT personnel overwhelming support repeal of DADT.
Troll squaken cites a poll by the vehemently anti-gay, fundamentalist Family Research Council, with the mean average age of respondents over 50 years of age. And thinks it authoritative. Delusional.
The old fundies who are against DADT will be dead soon, praise the Lord.
greenlibertarian on December 15 at 8:56 p.m.
Pardon me, should have read: “The old fundies who are against gays serving openly in the military will be dead soon, praise the Lord.”
greenlibertarian on December 15 at 9:12 p.m.
Say what you want about Lord Darth Cheney, even he is for repealing DADT. Might have something to do with the fact that he has a gay daughter, who is also a parent, which must REALLY stick in the craw of the bigots. Too bad, so sad.