Spokane7
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February 22, 2010 in City
Historic merit up for debate
Sides disagree on what’s valuable: YMCA building or land it occupies
The old YMCA building stands on Havermale Island on the shore of the middle channel of Spokane Falls.
(Full-size photo)
A new battle over the former YMCA pits the building’s history against the natural and cultural history of the island on which it sits and the adjacent Spokane Falls.
In an interview late last month, developer Ron Wells said he plans to apply for historic tax credits to help finance the redevelopment of the former downtown YMCA. If he succeeds and completes a $5 million renovation, the site could be eligible for $1 million in tax credits, he said.
“It’s the easiest million dollars to find to help fix up the building,” he said.
Wells said the site deserves consideration because of its importance to the community as a YMCA, the role it has played in Spokane’s core, and because it was designed by a “prestigious” architectural firm. The building, which opened in 1967, also served as the headquarters for Expo ’74.
Others, however, say any possible historic interest of the Y is easily trumped by the land it sits on, Havermale Island, and the adjacent falls. They add that the U.S. Pavilion stands as a far more important icon of the fair.
The Y stands on the shore of the middle channel of Spokane Falls, which holds significant cultural importance to area tribes. It also is where Spokane was founded in 1881. Settlers were attracted to the falls because they were a source of power. Without them, it’s unlikely that Spokane would have grown to be the state’s second-largest city.
Robert Perron, who was the principal landscape architect for Riverfront Park, said the Y should be torn down.
“You have to take the long view, a minimum of a 100-year view,” he said. “That site is actually a national treasure.”
The YMCA, he said, just can’t compete with the importance of providing improved public access to the falls.
“There’s no redeeming quality to it that makes it a unique architectural structure,” Perron said. “I’m amused that there would be some attitude that it would be a historic building.”
Last year, the City Council borrowed $4.3 million from a reserve to finish buying the YMCA. The Spokane Park Board bought the land in 2006 and put $1 million down on the $5.3 million price in hopes of incorporating the Y into Riverfront Park. The board has lobbied to pay off the rest of the money with county Conservation Futures property taxes and reclaiming the site as open space. The Spokane City Council has blocked that effort and is exploring the possible sale or long-term lease of the building to a private developer.
Spokane Mayor Mary Verner and City Council President Joe Shogan said that any plan must take care of the city’s debt.
“We have an obligation to repay a $4.3 million debt,” Shogan said. “I don’t intend to see the city left hanging.”
The city’s deadline for developers to submit proposals is Friday. County commissioners say the city has until March 31 to accept the Conservation Futures money, which would require the building to be torn down to restore the land.
Spokane Historic Preservation Officer Kristen Griffin said most buildings that win historic designation are 50 years old. However, exceptions can be made. In the case of the Y, the building’s use as the World’s Fair headquarters and its status as the oldest surviving YMCA structure in Spokane could help it qualify, she said.
But, she said, the designation isn’t a slam-dunk for the site.
Scott Surdyke, development manager for Conover Bond, said the building is worth saving.
“There’s something very appealing about mid-century architecture,” said Surdyke, who attended a meeting the city held for developers interested in the YMCA. “Today, people really respect that modernism.”
Steve McNutt, a former Park Board member instrumental in winning support for Conservation Futures funding, said without tax incentives to help finance the project, it’s doubtful that there would be a push to label the Y historic. But McNutt, an architect who has worked on several local historic renovations added: “There are no absolutes in that area at all.”
Wells said last month that his proposal was to convert three-quarters of the YMCA into apartments and a quarter into office space. He said the impressive view of the falls from the higher levels help make the project viable.
With Wells on his tour of the YMCA were Spokane Public Radio officials. Wells suggested that the pool area and other locations in the building could make a great space for a radio station. He said the nonprofit nature of the public radio would also be a perfect fit for Riverfront Park.
Richard Kunkel, president and general manager of Spokane Public Radio, said Friday that his organization has not ruled out the YMCA, but he stressed that the Y is one of many options for new space.
“We really don’t want to walk into a hornets’ nest. Who does?” Kunkel said after he toured the site. “We are trying very hard not to be either stopped by the politics or blinded by the politics. We have to look at everything that may work.”
Wells acknowledged that after working on redevelopment projects that had little opposition, he’s had to deal with controversy on the Y.
“This is the first time I’ve ever had a person of significant civic import come up to me in a grocery story and assail me,” he said. “For the most part (opponents are) people who don’t understand what a great building it is and they don’t understand it has two, three, four, (or) five million dollars worth of inherent value.”
Ed Deeble, a Spokane architect who worked on the YMCA, said he won’t be disappointed if the building is torn down.
“Everything can’t be historic,” he said.
But he added that the Y should continue to stand if a financially responsible plan is found.
“We have a tendency to tear down perfectly decent buildings,” he said. “It costs a lot to tear them down and we don’t get anything.”
MAC faces angry crowd 
Dazzeetrader11 on February 22 at 1:59 a.m.
Another case where the City needs to stay out of real estate. This city has a penchant for getting absolutely “Skinned” in these deals. The City owns it now and will have to figure out what to do about the new debt. Thanks Mary Verner. Nice going. Anything else you haven’t owned up to? I’d name a half dozen but they wouldn’t get printed. Dazzee
Ninch on February 22 at 7:31 a.m.
Another comment based on apparently hate for the mayor and not fact. Here is one fact missing from your diatribe:The City Council makes these decisions, not the mayor. Maybe you should study up on how your government works.
BTW: Did you even read the article? Or even know anything about the location of this site? The debate is not about getting “skinned” but about the best use for the land and/or building.
MrNatural on February 22 at 9:49 a.m.
Spokane Falls is by far the most unique, splendid and recognizable feature of our city and region. It belongs to all people and is the crowning feature of Riverfront Park. To satiate business interests totally misses the mark on such a grand spiritual place. Keep private greed where it belongs on the north bank Tear down that ugly store front relic of a building and allow the Falls to breathe again in full sunshine. Enhance the site for all people for its grandeur and spiritual qualities.
And nothing personal toward Mr. Wells but to suggest that public radio has a place is a blatant business patronization to placate environmentalist and those who see this place transcending far beyond some crass business venture.
cryssT on February 22 at 9:51 a.m.
built in 1967 - nothing historic there, not even in 2067. sell the land, help the city deficit. cities are in the business to tax property not own it - why keep it off the tax rolls. now the current City Hall, that’s in a historic building and doing it’s job on a minimal amount of space.
jake on February 22 at 10:12 a.m.
Like so many choices made in the last thirty years, Spokane’s politicos are not able to see beyond the immediate dollars. There is always the sense that value is tied to how many dollars something will bring in the marketplace. This is the thinking of the greedy and the ignorant and uncaring.
Joe Shogan is one of the worst of this stripe of politician, drunk on his perceived power and convinced that his parochial little attitudes are the stuff of the great leaders, he pontificates from his mouse throne. Phooey to him and his witless mouthings.
As for sweet Al and the despicable turncoat Richard Rush, history will deal with them in ways that will not be kind. They are given the greatest opportunity of their careers to prove they are worthy of the public trust… and neither of them can rise to the occasion.
Shame on them, and on the rest who would sell out the public for their twenty pieces of silver.
eagleproducer on February 22 at 10:31 a.m.
One million in tax credits for good Ol’ Ron “I sup from the public trough” Wells.
Sounds like more corporate welfare to me.
zelda on February 22 at 11:28 a.m.
Developers are a real piece of work, aren’t they? The YMCA building is historic in the same sense that a harvest gold refrigerator and an avocado stove are. If the building is such an architectural gem, maybe Ron Wells can disassemble it and put it back together at U-City so it can become a tourist attraction where visitors from across the globe pay admission to admire its design.
That would revitalize the Valley and solve the problem of what to do with this historic masterpiece. Then we can have all of our nostalgia for the 60s in one place as nature intended.
Ron_the_Cop on February 22 at 11:59 a.m.
Mr. Brunt,
I really have mixed feelings regarding the YMCA building whether it stays or is torn down. What I do object to is the unelected Park Board going out on the limb with money it doesn’t have. I have issues with them re the now defunct MOBIUS Project. They didn’t have the funds to purchase the YMCA building outright and advanced $1M of its own funds. Yes, they did get the County to commit its conservation money. Was this a prudent move or a wise use of these conservation funds? I’m torn.
This City has a checkered past when it comes to these deals - the STA Transit Plaza, bond funding for the Sports Arena and Convention Center, the RPS Bonds I and II frauds, and the now defunct MOBIUS Project and Kendall Yards project as well as moves re Downtown light rail on behalf of Spokane’s power elite and not necessary in the best interests of the citizens/taxpayers of the City of Spokane.
What does concern me is the City Council had to bail out the Park Board’s move with a loan from it’s “Bank of Hein,” AKA the Solid Waste Fund now at some $49M.
KUDOS to you Mr. Brunt for accurately reporting the source of this bridge loan - “The Bank of Hein.”
For more on the “Bank of Hein” see my criminal complaint I filed with the State Board of Accountancy against Gavin Cooley, the CFO of the City of Spokane which the S-R has had this story for over a week and hasn’t reported yet. Why?
Cover letter
http://friendsofmarkfuhrman.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/cooley-complaint-cover.doc
My affidavit
http://friendsofmarkfuhrman.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/cooley-cpa-complaint-1.doc
Table of Exhibits
http://friendsofmarkfuhrman.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/cooley-complaint-exhibits.doc
You can read more info received after I filed my complaint here at my blog:
http://friendsofmarkfuhrman.org/blog/?p=225l
Gavin Cooley CFO Spokane, WA - Misuse of CPA complaint filed
http://friendsofmarkfuhrman.org/blog/?p=225
Readers my wish to read my complaint to reveal the inner workings of the City of Spokane and how their money is managed. I’ve just completed a financial analysis on the RPS Bond I and II frauds. My findings are this will ultimately cost the taxpayers of Spokane $100M. I will publish a table of my findings in the near future. The YMCA building is mere chump change compared to this other loss.
And for those who would criticize me for being a know nothing, a naysayer of all developments in Spokane, I’m putting my money where my mouth is and signing my name in the open.
Det. Ron Wright (Retired)
Professional Vitae
http://friendsofmarkfuhrman.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/revised-resume-12-29-09.pdf
zelda on February 22 at 12:39 p.m.
Hey, Ron_the_Cop — I’m finally getting around to reading Timothy Egan’s “Breaking Blue;” something I should have done years ago. Oh, my. It’s still going on, isn’t it?
Maybe my view on this park land issue is fiscally irresponsible, but what I want most of all is to keep this piece of property out of the hands of developers. I’ve never met one that wasn’t a form of blue-green algae.
HankTingler on February 22 at 2:36 p.m.
Sell it to the County and convert it to a work release jail?
Ron Wright, the Spokesman is as complicate as the perpatrators when they cover it up or remove postings critical of their ethics.
You can probably expect your posting to conveniently disappear.
The transparency of what is going on in City Hall is nill, while Mayor Verner is not a bad leader, all of her grossly overpaid followers tend to scurry to the shadows and corners when the lights are turned on. Too bad the Spokesman doesn’t want to investigate and report on the bloat in that building.
Ron_the_Cop on February 22 at 4:33 p.m.
Zelda agreed. You are quite correct. And yes, I’m conflicted re the YMCA building I can argue with myself fairly successful on both sides of this issue. My issues are the financial impact to the City.
Hank Tingler thanks for your comments and support. So far of late my comments have been allowed to say. Perhaps I should give a shout out to Mr. Ryan Pitts. I don’t know? If I post over at A Matter of Opinion their gone in a heart beat. Imagine that!
Det. Ron Wright (Retired)
twobit on February 22 at 6:50 p.m.
we need more places for our homeless to sleep lets tear it dowm and give them a place
zelda on February 22 at 8:52 p.m.
The city is increasingly desperate for tax revenue. The issue is weighing the intangible, aesthetic value of an unobstructed view of falls vs. the tangible revenue from property taxes on a developed building. It’s anyone’s guess how long it’s going to take for the glutted downtown condo market to recover — if ever.
I come down on the side of aesthetics. If the current building were remodeled, it could be 30 years before another opportunity presents itself to return the land to a natural state. The visual benefit is hard to quantify but there are cities that have remade their downtown falls into tourism assets. http://www.passaiccountynj.org/parkshistorical/historical_attractions/greatfalls.htm
westerly on February 22 at 9:22 p.m.
The best for future generations is to tear it down and make it part of the park… with a view to kill!! But Verner and company are always thinking of tax dollars..and a very risky business venture for the city..as they all know too well with RPS etc.
SugarShane on February 22 at 9:42 p.m.
I went to this Y before it closed. It was run down and creepy. I am poor and naturally biased towards returning the land to a natural state as opposed to handing it over to a developer to make another high rise condo for the wealthy like the one on the north bank. Everyone whines about debt but we are a nation built on credit. Has anyone ever seen the national debt at 0? It is a prime piece of real estate, but not for development. I have this strong feeling in my gut that it will not be torn down, the council and mayor have dollar signs in their eyes. If we can afford 70 million a day on a futile war, this is chump change.
Dazzeetrader11 on February 22 at 10:51 p.m.
Ninch…I do know your hero the mayor is the force behind this purchase. She might have said a plain “NO”. She might have said “NO” ot other things as well but she didn’t…did she?
But if you might read..the city gets beat up on tons of things called “real estate”. The city of Spokane has not one single person with a real estate license or who might have had a background in it. And yet, they continue on abusing the taxpayers’ dollars. Does a debt of $9 million mean anything to you? It should. When you’re in debt , more normal prudent officials step back and figure it out. She doesn’t. Nor does the Park Board. Apparently the Council was presented with bad choices. They might have written a check for $500K to some developer to just take it off their hands….cut the losses.
How about the stockyards? Be studious and go back to that one. OR event the structure across the street from City Hall. Skinned again. The list grows and guess who involved in each of these fiascos? MV! Go Mayor go! Lots of these “transparency” laden activities aren’t so transparent but people like you will forget the promises of “when I’m elected, there willl be complete transparency”….laughing yet? Me neither.
And then comes the issues surrounding the Property room mess and relocation of the Police to their own private building….I’d go on but this wouldn’t see the light of day. Psssttt…think before you post. It’s all in good humor…no worries..
Coffee on February 23 at 5:27 p.m.
See what city counsel person is getting the most money off this deal. The building should be taken down.
twobit on February 24 at 9:23 a.m.
it would be a good place to house our jail great views for repeat offenders and close to all services