Spokane7
67°
November 3, 2010 in City
Voters favor Republicans locally and nationally
Party takes control of the House and sends message in variety of races
Michael Baumgartner and his wife, Eleanor, react to the early returns at the Republican Party’s election night celebration at the Davenport Hotel.
(Full-size photo)
Washington Republicans were lifted by a national tide in Tuesday’s elections, one that cost Democrats at least one of the state’s congressional seats and left a key U.S. Senate seat in doubt.
Early returns indicate the tide will carry more Republicans into the still solidly Democratic-controlled Legislature in Olympia, and to the already Republican-dominated courthouse in Spokane. Because Washington votes will continue to arrive in the mail for more than a week, close races might not be decided until right before Thanksgiving.
Three-term incumbent Patty Murray held a slim lead over Republican challenger Dino Rossi in a Senate race that split the state geographically. Murray won many of the counties that surround Puget Sound, including King County where about one in three of the state’s voters reside. Rossi rolled up big margins in most of Eastern Washington.
But at night’s end, the two were separated by less than 17,000 votes, raising the specter of the historically close 2004 gubernatorial election, which Rossi lost after a second recount, and suggesting the race will hinge on turnout.
The GOP held on to all the U.S. House seats it controlled in the state, including Eastern Washington’s 5th District, where three-term incumbent Cathy McMorris Rodgers easily dispatched former television reporter Daryl Romeyn.
McMorris Rodgers, who is No. 4 in House GOP leadership, refused to speculate on whether she would move up as Republicans take control of the House. She said the new majority wants to be a positive force for change and progress, not simply a blockade for President Barack Obama’s agenda. One of her first acts, she said, will be to support a balanced budget amendment.
Although he was trailing badly in all of the district’s counties, Romeyn said he wanted to wait for more results before conceding. He acknowledged, however: “That’s a heck of a margin to close.”
Republican state Rep. Jaime Herrera, a former McMorris Rodgers aide, was comfortably ahead of Democrat Denny Heck for an open House seat in southwestern Washington previously held by Democrat Brian Baird. Republican John Koster had a slim lead over Democratic Rep. Rick Larsen in northwestern Washington.
Republicans also picked up seats in the Legislature, which will face its next session with less money and more restrictions on how it can raise taxes. Democrats seem likely to keep control of both chambers, but with much narrower majorities. Legislators will return to Olympia in January to wrestle with a budget that was already an estimated $3 billion out of whack before Tuesday, when voters cut taxes and told the Legislature it needed a two-thirds supermajority to raise them again.
Republican challenger Mike Baumgartner led Democratic state Sen. Chris Marr in Spokane’s 6th Legislative District contest, where spending topped $1 million, a record for a legislative race in Washington. Baumgartner appeared at the GOP victory celebration at the Davenport Hotel to wild applause, where he complimented Marr and said his opponent will probably remain active in public service. And he said he’d bring a sledgehammer to Olympia to signify the change that he believes is coming.
Marr picked up 4 percentage points in the second count late Tuesday but still trails significantly. He said he believes there are more votes left to count in Democratic-leaning areas than outside city limits.
“If you see that margin tighten up in the next ballot count, then it’s a different race,” he said.
In another race that tightened in late returns, Republican John Ahern also led Democratic state Rep. John Driscoll in the 6th District’s House race. It was a rematch of the 2008 race in which Driscoll ousted Ahern.
Ahern said he was confident he was going back to Olympia, where he’d push a pro-business, pro-senior-citizen agenda and look to extend tax breaks for new businesses.
Democrat Andy Billig won an open state House seat in central Spokane’s 3rd Legislative District. He said his campaign had five college interns, calling it “a validation of how a young campaign can be really effective.”
Incumbents, most of whom are Republicans and many of whom were unchallenged, won the other legislative races in Eastern Washington.
In Spokane County, Republican Al French took an early lead over incumbent County Commissioner Bonnie Mager. Although the early returns were weighted toward the Republican-leaning county precincts, former Spokane City Councilman French said he was feeling confident of victory and said his eight years of municipal experience will add a new dimension to the three-member commission. If so, the county will return to an all-Republican board if the results hold, but French said the three have different perspectives and won’t operate “in lock step.”
Mager, however, was not conceding and a later vote tally brought her within 1,000 votes of French. Results may not be known for days: “It looks like it’s going to be a nail biter.”
In other county races, early returns showed Republican Prosecutor Steve Tucker with a safe lead over Democratic challenger Frank Malone. Tucker could not immediately be reached for comment, but Malone wasn’t ready to concede until he learned more about the results.
“Until somebody knows where these votes came from, it’s hard to know what they mean,” Malone said. “The early results are based on a partial return of the county.”
The county assessor’s race featured two Republicans, and in that case it was the challenger Vicki Horton who was leading incumbent Ralph Baker by a comfortable margin.
County Treasurer Skip Chilberg, a Democrat, was trailing Republican challenger Rob Chase in early returns. Chase had entered the race as a write-in in the primary after no one filed to challenge Chilberg, a former county commissioner.
Democrats appeared to be holding onto the county auditor’s office, as incumbent Vicky Dalton led GOP challenger Leonard Christian.
Voters also decided judicial races, which in Washington are nonpartisan positions. In the state’s one contested Supreme Court race, incumbent Richard Sanders held a narrow lead – about 25,000 votes at night’s end – over challenger Charlie Wiggins. Wiggins was leading in King, Thurston and a few other West Side counties, but Sanders was leading in the rest.
In the county’s one contested district court race, incumbent Debra Hays had a commanding lead over challenger Timothy Note.
Staff writers John Stucke, Jonathan Brunt, Tom Sowa and Thomas Clouse contributed to this report.
Supermajority for taxes unconstitutional, judge rules 
Dazzeetrader11 on November 03 at 2:44 a.m.
Mager doesn’t understand..the 3rd could be a virtual tie and she still won’t win this one. It’s those outside precincts that vote Republican….the person who wins the Valley and Liberty Lake wins this one handily. I think French has gone far ahead in those two areas….at least he was 1 month ago.’Given that Mager’s made no headway in any precint, I suspect she’s done for..
French put in a very busy campaign as far back as March. He continued to campagin heavily through the summer and fall. He came in person to every forum while Mager didn’t show in many the last 6 weeks. We’ll see but I do think French wins for many reasons.
Baumgartner wins..not because MArr’s a bad campaigner. Marr’s a steadfast type..when his own skin is on the line. Baumgarter promises to reduce the budget and lower taxes while be pro business., Sounds like a good plan. It will be difficult as the tax and spend Dems still have control of things in Olympia.
Rossi, thus far anyway, won Spokane by a huge margin. Let’s hope E Wa and Spokane will give him enough votes to counter King County….a very liberal bastion in Wa St…who will almost certainly vote for Murray in large numbers. Rossi will win the entire St except for those 4 west side counties who vote liberal usually as they drive their limos to the country clubs. Guilty elitists. It’ll be close..65% of the vote are in and it’s an even 50-50.
Scoutster on November 03 at 4:57 a.m.
Good luck to all our victors!
I will look forward to them cutting programs, cutting taxes even more (zero would be best), and maintaining the level of services we need to be an operating society.
Have at it, boys! Lead us to the promised land!
schleufer on November 03 at 5:12 a.m.
i voted for daryl. id do it again. she isnt going to do anything but go to DC and do what her party tells her. you people get what you ask for.
drywitt99 on November 03 at 5:18 a.m.
Daisy:
Actually, Patty’s leading in 6 counties.
And in Kitsap……with all of the naval personnel (usually not a bunch of flaming liberals)….she’s only trailing by 38 votes..
Maybe those guilty elitist vampires in Forks will put her over the top!!
drywitt99 on November 03 at 5:34 a.m.
Congratulations to all of the patriotic Republicans elected and re-elected to service in Olympia.
I, of course, voted for none of you.
But a favor….if you will….
PLEASE change the way elections are conducted in Washington State??
Every two years why are we always among the last areas in the nation to know the results.
Everywhere else has 100% of precints reporting….or 94%…..or 88%……and here we are with 62%!!!
Get rid of the damn mail in ballots….and make us show up at the polls.
I don’t think 10 minutes out of our lives every 2 or 4 years is too high a price to pay.
Besides…..maybe that way Dino will have a chance in 2012……for WHATEVER office he would like to fail to win.
Elkay on November 03 at 6:01 a.m.
I’m with drywitt99 on the nearly entire state of Washington voting by mail.
Not only do we have to wait too long for results, but more important, it is significantly susceptible to fraud by either party.
By the way, did the overseas military vote get included? I hope so.
In any case, congrats to the winners.
Diana on November 03 at 6:36 a.m.
Congratulations to Republicans for gaining a majority in the House!
I want the economy fixed and millions of jobs created. I want the foreclosure crisis and the illegal alien problems to go away.
And I want it done in less than two years.
Thanks!
misjustice on November 03 at 7:01 a.m.
Congratulations to all victors! And thanks to all that voted!
Now, let’s get to work for our state and nation.
I agree with Diana and Scouster. I too want the economy fixed, and eagerly await all those jobs, preferably tied up in a rainbow. Additionally, I want it all done without any personal cost or discomfort; I’d favor a zero tax rate, a new Mercedes-Benz, oh, and a pony would also be nice.
; )
Lulubelle on November 03 at 7:29 a.m.
The devil is in the details and our Repub friends have offered few details as to how they are going to “create jobs”, “lower taxes”, “shrink government” and “take back their country”.
Lets all pay careful attention to who is getting the “breaks” and what programs are being cut……….this will tell us who and where the elitists (not to mention bought & sold politicians) are.
On the Federal level, eight years of Bush economic policy favoring corporate interests and tax cuts got us to where we are today….if the “capitalist, anything goes - corporations are people - no regulations” system works so well, why are we not at full employment, rollin’ in clover?
On the local front, all I can say is thank God for the wisdom of 3rd LD voters……I can’t wait to see what boner Ahern pulls next (he’s an embarrassing joke)…..and I hope the voters in the 6th are happy with their new carpetbagging, special interest bought representative.
Of course, as the votes keep coming in…..things could change….
hawken on November 03 at 7:35 a.m.
While the Republicans have had a historical tsunami, we did not get control of the U.S. Senate and liberals still own the While house, at least for two more years.
As always, the President of the United States sets the agenda… and his veto pen is mighty.
I do think that many of the U.S. Senate Democrats whom are up for re-election in 2012 will hear the people, in light of this Republican landslide, and back away from the Obama liberal left polices. Especially now, since they have seen the Democrat bloodshed that took place yesterday.
This nation has clearly rejected Obama care and his other big government tax and spend, liberal policies.
Obama cannot say, when he runs for re-election in 2012,,,
“I had a Republican House and Senate against me.” He still controls the White House and the Senate.
If these new Republicans don’t do what they were sent to Washington to do…. it could well be their last chance as a party.
I expect Obama will attempt, and maybe successfully, the continuation of pressing his liberal left policies through government agencies…. ie; “Cap and Tax” through the EPA
Republican governor’s took over an additional 10 “state houses” yesterday…. That is huge! With redistricting, Republican governors could insure Republican “strongholds” concerning Congressional seats for a decade or more.
Plus,,, 17 State legislators flipped from Democrat to Republican last night!
I like what John Boehner did and said last night in his speech (para pharase)….
“Now is NOT the time to celebrate… It’s time to celebrate when we have jobs for our people… it’s time to celebrate when the economy is back on track… NOW, is the time to go to work.”
hawken on November 03 at 7:46 a.m.
Republican, Rick Scott just won the governor’s seat in Florida. Make that 11 Republican Governor takeovers now.
I’ll have to check to be sure, but I think Republican governors won all of the Great Lakes states defeating Democrats.
I’m fairly sure that this is the largest national, shift of power in a mid term election since the 1800s!
Diana on November 03 at 7:46 a.m.
I saw Boehner’s speech and his orange tears. He doesn’t cry as much as Glenn Beck, but still.
Okay, I’ll be waiting for Republicans to get the economy back on track. Waiting for all those jobs.
Waiting… waiting…
hawken on November 03 at 8:00 a.m.
The next two years should be VERY interesting….
Most of the surviving Democrats in the US Senate, survived either because they were not up for re-election,,, or they are from a hopelessly liberal left state such as California, Massachusetts, etc…
Now we have the most liberal of liberals remaining in the US Senate,,, with a razor thin majority…. the most liberal left of liberal left presidents…. a Conservative House and a conservative US Senate Minority….
Unless Obama moves to the center, along with his veto pen, for his own self-preservation,,, I’m dubious as to how much will actually change in the next two years.
If Obama does not move to the center, he will be a one term president,,,, and a new breed (we hope) of Republicans, will own the Senate, House and White House in 2012.
misjustice on November 03 at 8:05 a.m.
THIS is what we can look forward to…two years of Mr. Boner, aka The Orange Man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir1UABBe1v4
Warning; video contains images of a drunk man crying.
; )
Diana on November 03 at 8:11 a.m.
Rick Scott? The CEO whose company pleaded guilty to 14 felonies and agreed to a $600+ million fine in what the Justice department then called the largest fraud case settled in the history of the Justice department? That Rick Scott? Hawken must be so proud!
Weren’t the baggers complaining about Planned Parenthood just last week?
In any case, congratulations, Florida. You have elected the leader you deserve.
misjustice on November 03 at 8:11 a.m.
THIS, too!
; )
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/how-do-you-say-tuskegee/6axgu3h
misjustice on November 03 at 8:17 a.m.
THIS, too!
; )
http://www.buzzfeed.com/akdobbins/john-boehner-crying-a-comprehensive-guide
hawken on November 03 at 8:20 a.m.
All of the liberal left, character assassination across the county during this election, which continues in this forum, even today, clearly didn’t fool many… did it…
The American people as a whole, are not stupid, as the liberal left attempts to paint them… are they…
This WAS a NATIONAL, CONSERVATIVE TIDAL WAVE… was it not….
Diana on November 03 at 8:28 a.m.
Considering Democrats are still in the executive branch, the Senate and have two upcoming Supreme Court nominations, no. It was not.
Let’s see those jobs, Hawken!
hawken on November 03 at 8:41 a.m.
So…. let me process Diana’s deep insight….
Obama…. not up for re-election
Obama… could appoint more Supreme Court Justices - NOT Elected
US Senate… clings to a razor thin Majority….
Thus….
NO NATIONAL CONSERVATIVE TIDAL WAVE YESTERDAY?
HISTORIC SINCE THE 1800s?
Non sequitur (Latin for,,, it does not “logically” follow)….
More liberal left, logical fallacies… right on the tail of more liberal left, character assassination…
It’s all you’ve got!
America clearly, as demonstrated yesterday, understands this to be true.
misjustice on November 03 at 8:44 a.m.
By winning the House, the Republican’ts have given us a new speaker, Mr. Boner; aka The Orange Man. If nothing else, he will provide comic relief and will be the butt of jokes when he makes drunken speeches with his rheumy eyes and crocodile tears. Leno must be salivating at the prospect.
; )
Now, we get to be the party of hell NO! We can obstruct with the best of them!
; )
misjustice on November 03 at 8:50 a.m.
On a state level, we DID prevent the privatization of liquor sales, and the privatization of our state industrial insurance. Defeating these initiatives was no small feat; considering the monied, out of state, interest groups pushing these measures.
; )
hawken on November 03 at 8:55 a.m.
If Democrates become the party of HELL NO…. they will loose it all in 2012… White House and US Senate…
This is all about policy,,,, liberal left, Obama, Democrat policy,,,, Failed and Rejected by the American people.
The real party of NO…. is the U.S. Electorate!
liarsinnews on November 03 at 8:57 a.m.
hawken: I agree with you most of the time, but I can not with your tsunami characterization. I think the elections created a huge wave but it will take a tsunami to cause needed change.
MrNatural on November 03 at 9:02 a.m.
Good Morning People (you to hawken)…
Ugh!
Well the mob has spoken and the greedy conquered the needy. Congratulations.
I am reminded of a quote today by H.L. Mencken:
“Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.”
spokanecougar on November 03 at 9:22 a.m.
Alright, the GOP gave Obama and the democrats less than 2 years to try and fix the economy (which they have, its just slower than anyone likes) and get more jobs…..now its time to see if the GOP can do this in less than 2 years. Thats all the time you guys are getting since thats all the time you gave us.
Be interesting to see what these crazy candidates who could never tell anyone during the election how they will cut spending and how they will fix the economy and how they will create more jobs actually do it now. Lets see if they actually do that or instead just try and repeal health care (which will never be repealed since Obama will never repeal his own bill), try and investigate and impeach Obama like Michelle Bachman and Darrell Issa have said they want to do.
Have fun tea baggers, you wanted power, you got it, now try and not give the country even more to the corporations.
Coffee on November 03 at 9:22 a.m.
Dam the coffee in the morning taste better when almost every thing you wanted got pasted :):): with a few clouds in the sky like. Tucker is a very nice person to talk to, but the laziest sack of skin you are ever going to meet when it comes to doing his job. AKA past the buck tuck. And there is Patty she has just been there to long. Y-all enjoy this fine day.
Scoutster on November 03 at 9:30 a.m.
I think this really good news, actually. If the grown-ups can prevail, perhaps we can have the long-delayed but increasingly necessary debate about exactly how we are going to pay for stuff (SS, Medicare/aid, war).
And, now, we are going to have to address how we deal with chronic unemployment…those jobs aren’t coming back whether its Nancy the Great Satan or Orange John in the speaker’s chair.
The GOP will have to put away their credit cards for awhile, and the Dems will have to consider something other than taxes, and we will see what we have.
It will be a good test of self-government in an information/entertainment age.
Let’s expect the best and maybe we will get it.
Diana on November 03 at 9:36 a.m.
I love it when certain posters bleat about logical fallacies and then proceed to invoke logical fallacies.
Let’s just see the change and the jobs, Repubes. Fix the economy. Create the jobs. Zero the deficit.
I’ll be waiting.
MrNatural on November 03 at 9:57 a.m.
There’s nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight
I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I’ll get on my knees and pray
We don’t get fooled again
Don’t get fooled again
No, no!
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
misjustice on November 03 at 10:03 a.m.
Same as the old boss.
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee - I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can’t get fooled again.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A
misjustice on November 03 at 10:10 a.m.
Dear Mr. Boner;
“You Haven’t Done Nothing”
We are amazed but not amused
By all the things you say that you’ll do
Though much concerned but not involved
With decisions that are made by you
But we are sick and tired of hearing your song
Telling how you are gonna change right from wrong
‘Cause if you really want to hear our views
“You haven’t done nothing”!
It’s not too cool to be ridiculed
But you brought this upon yourself
The world is tired of pacifiers
We want the truth and nothing else
And we are sick and tired of hearing your song
Telling how you are gonna change right from wrong
‘Cause if you really want to hear our views
“You haven’t done nothing”!
Jackson 5 join along with me say
Doo doo wop - hey hey hey
Doo doo wop - wow wow wow
Doo doo wop - co co co
Doo doo wop - naw naw naw
Doo doo wop - bum bum bum
Doo doo wop
We would not care to wake up to the nightmare
That’s becoming real life
But when mislead who knows a person’s mind
Can turn as cold as ice un hum
Why do you keep on making us hear your song
Telling us how you are changing right from wrong
‘Cause if you really want to hear our views
“You haven’t done nothing”!
Yeah
Luv, Stevie Wonder
hawken on November 03 at 10:52 a.m.
spokanecougar
You make a couple of huge oversights… calculated, I’m sure…
1- You guys have had the White House, Senate and House for the last two years,,,,
2- plus the House and Senate… since 2007… under Bush… 110th and 111th Congress…
http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/l/bl_party_division_2.htm
You continue to control the Senate, barely…. and the White House… for the next two years…
Are you able to connect the dots concerning you last post?
I’ll be glad help, if you can’t…. just let me know… I’m here to serve.
hawken on November 03 at 11:12 a.m.
Obama needs to “shake up” his inner circle…..
If… If….. he is serious about responding to the American people.
Maybe his self-survival instinct… and fear of becoming a one term president will kick in….
He should follow the lead of Clinton, if he has any lick of common sense…
Appoint some “moderate” Republicans to your cabinet, Mr. President…. as did Clinton.
jddavis on November 03 at 11:28 a.m.
I hope the “repubes” can create jobs…diana really needs to get one.
Spokanecouger—the GOP didn’t give President Obama and the Democrats 2 years to “fix the economy, etc”, the American people did. The President and Democrats failed to deliver on their promises, pulled some shady moves, and now those who voted for them in ‘06 and ‘08 are pissed. How each party works with the other, and how they carryout the will of the people will dictate what happens in ‘12; Republicans must show they have changed and Democrats must change…simple huh?
Diana on November 03 at 11:36 a.m.
jadavis, have one!
misjustice on November 03 at 11:42 a.m.
2012
begins…
today!
; )
hawken on November 03 at 11:45 a.m.
Finally!! Something I can agree with,,, Misjudgment…. First Time!
hawken on November 03 at 12:28 p.m.
Natural: Recommended Reading….
Based upon your 9:02 am post…..
“
Well the mob has spoken and the greedy conquered the needy. Congratulations.”
Sounds like you are a “taker”….. rather than a “maker.”
Recommended Reading:
Peter Schweizer’s Makers and Takers examines conservative/liberal divide and the ways in which conservatives are happier.
For Immediate Release
Peter Schweizer’s Makers and Takers
Peter Schweizer’s Makers and Takers examines conservative/ liberal divide and the ways in which conservatives are happier.
Stanford—In Makers and Takers, a new volume by Peter Schweizer, a Hoover Institution research fellow, you will discover why
* Seventy-one percent of conservatives say you have an obligation to care for a seriously injured spouse or parent versus less than half (46 percent) of liberals
* Conservatives have a better work ethic and are much less likely to call in sick than their liberal counterparts
* Liberals are two and a half times more likely to be resentful of others’ success and 50 percent more likely to be jealous of other people’s good luck
* Liberals are two times more likely to say it is ok to cheat the government out of welfare money you don’t deserve
* Conservatives are more likely than liberals to hug their children and “significantly more likely” to display positive nurturing emotions
* Liberals are less trusting of family members and much less likely to stay in touch with their parents
* Do you get satisfaction from putting someone else’s happiness ahead of your own? Fifty-five percent of conservatives said yes versus only 20 percent of liberals.
According to Schweizer, the American left prides itself on being superior to conservatives: more generous, less materialistic, more tolerant, more intellectual, and more selfless. For years scholars have constructed—and the media have pushed—elaborate theories designed to demonstrate that conservatives suffer from a host of personality defects and character flaws.
According to these supposedly unbiased studies, conservatives are mean-spirited, greedy, selfish malcontents with authoritarian tendencies.
Schweizer has dug deep—through tax documents, scholarly data, primary opinion research surveys, and private records—and discovered that these claims are a myth. Indeed, he shows that many of these claims actually apply more to liberals than conservatives.
Schweizer argues that the failure lies in modern liberal ideas, which foster a self-centered, “if it feels, good do it” attitude that leads liberals to outsource their responsibilities to the government and focus instead on themselves and their own desires.
Peter Schweizer is a research fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and the author of numerous books, including the New York Times best seller Do as I Say (Not as I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy. He lives in Florida with his wife and sons.
Makers and Takers: Why conservatives work harder, feel happier, have closer families, take fewer drugs, give more generously, value honesty more, are less materialistic and envious, whine less … and even hug their children more than liberals
by Peter Schweizer
Doubleday
lewis8457 on November 03 at 12:49 p.m.
Tucker couldn’t be reached for comment. Did they look at the golf course lounge?
jddavis on November 03 at 12:56 p.m.
@ lewis…local law enforcement must be breathing easier today!
hawken on November 03 at 1:19 p.m.
Hot OFF The Press!
GM gets another $45 Billion TAX Break!! Another bailout by this administration….
Didn’t GM say we’ve paid off all of our Federal Bailout?
Didn’t GM say we have become profitable?
So, Mr. Obama…. how about the extending the small business tax cuts as well? You know, people who make $250K or more???
NO MORE bailouts for GM or other big corporations…. let them file bankruptcy and re-organize!
PLUS….. PLUS…… PLUS….
“The Fed will print another $600 billion by the end of Q2 2011. Nothing really new here. We are going the way of Zimbabwe as money printing becomes the general tool to “boost” the economy. So far the markets have sold the news. The sky is the limit for commodities as a result of dollar debasement.”
http://www.straightstocks.com/market-commentary/fed-decision-will-print-another-600-billion-hello-zimbabwe/
Add another $600 Billion of debt upon the heads of our children, grand children and beyond!!
Counting another $45 Billion for GM… total today…. add another $645 Billion to the backs of our kids!!
All you liberals….. Buy GOLD, SILVER, REAL ESTATE! The ONLY hedge against inflation/hyper-inflation! For the sake of your children!
Inflation/hyper-inflation is not a matter of IF…. It’s a matter of WHEN!
Thank you Obama and Company!! Selfish, immoral of the liberal left!
hawken on November 03 at 1:26 p.m.
I’m just wondering…. if ANY of you from the liberal left understands what it means for the FED to print ANOTHER $600 Billion?
It’s not earned,,,, just printed!! It devalues the dollar…. your milk, breaD and eggs are going up significantly! Your gas is going up significantly!
Do you even get it? Where is the outrage?
I am outraged!
misjustice on November 03 at 2:42 p.m.
^ This is what I meant, several daze ago, when I used the term “sore winners”.
; )
509ifyourlucky on November 03 at 2:51 p.m.
Maybe this situation will make all parties understand you can’t stomp all over peoples beliefs and try to change their life against their will. You have to find a middle ground. To anybody out there who judges and insults people for no other reason than their political preference, hopefully you will learn that bigotry is not a solution to our countries problems, and there will be a backlash.
hawken on November 03 at 3:08 p.m.
It’s impossible to reason with “stupid”….
I use the term advisedly, per definition… NOT pejoratively…
MrNatural on November 03 at 4:17 p.m.
Thanks Hawken…I’ll try to keep an open mind
But keep in mind that you and I are ideologically opposed. I am by your definition somewhat of a socialist and a “what would Jesus do” sort of a moralist. As you express distain for liberals as illustrated by Peter Schweizer I do not believe his generalizations to be true. As a matter of fact I cannot ascertain how people who defend social programs and the environment just to name a few could be maligned as such degenerates as Mr. Schweizer describes. By his definition I am not a liberal nor are any of the Democrats I know personally. Personally I think his work is a well crafted and most likely well funded conservative propaganda hit piece. But that’s just a thought.
Did this Mr. Schweizer ever define what a liberal is? Can you describe to me what a liberal is?
You see I have friends who are deemed conservative and I would be remiss to generalize them with the same greedy SOB’s of Wall Street who ruined lives and plunged this country into bankruptcy and profit off of war and human misery….or are these people liberals to?
pjc on November 03 at 4:29 p.m.
Hey Diana I guess you didn’t see all those jobs created during “Recovery Summer”!
hawken on November 03 at 4:39 p.m.
Natural:
I tried to respond specifically, to your question regarding the definition of a liberal… with a long list of examples…
However, the SR Spam control won’t let me…
Let me try these few…. Barack Obama, Patty Murray, Nancy Pelosi.
How many do you need?
hawken on November 03 at 5:07 p.m.
Natural:
Jesus was no liberal…. And, as God Incarnate,,,, does not contradict himself…. This one parable establishes that:
1- People should be able to do with their “own money” as they please… Not have it seized by government.
2- He was not a union supporter….
Matthew 20:1-16 (New International Version)
Matthew 20
The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard
1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius[a] for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.
“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’
13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”
Footnotes:
1. Matthew 20:2 A denarius was the usual daily wage of a day laborer.
How ironic that liberals trash biblical Christians….
…and then want to defend their liberalism by claiming that Christ was a liberal… citing scripture that has nothing to do with how to handle ones own money…. and ignoring those which do.
You might recall that He said…. “Give to Caesar that which is Caesar’s…. and to God that which is Gods.”
He also had much to say about PERSONAL charity, giving PERSONALLY, to the poor…..
There is no people on earth that is remotely as charitable as the American people… Conservative Americans that is… give the most.
Quote:
It turns out that this idea that liberals give more…is a myth. Of the top 25 states where people give an above average percent of their income, 24 were red states in the last presidential election.
Arthur Brooks, the author of “Who Really Cares,” says that “when you look at the data, it turns out the conservatives give about 30 percent more.” He adds, “And incidentally, conservative-headed families make slightly less money.”
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730&page=1
hawken on November 03 at 5:37 p.m.
Natural: Followup….
The parables of Christ each teach a “primary” truth…. with secondary truths as well…
The primary truth of the parable of the land owner, is that God can do with his own possessions as He pleases…. Namely, people.
That point is based upon an earthly principle, which all would understand…. Namely, that people can do with their own money as they like….
God is just…. and not subject to the evaluations of sinful man.
JBlim on November 03 at 5:38 p.m.
hawken, your bible story has nothing to do with unions. It makes Jesus sound more like a Marxist, a chip off the ole’ block:
Leviticus 25:28
28. But if he has not sufficient means to get it back for himself, then what he sold shall remain in the hand of him who bought it until the year of jubilee; in the jubilee it shall be released, and he shall return to his property.
james_l on November 03 at 5:50 p.m.
JBlim:
Check out who hawken cites as his “source” that conservatives give more than liberals: http://www.arthurbrooks.net. This is the president of the ultra right-wing American Enterprise Institute.
He even lifted the conclusion from a George Will article about this topic.
All INDEPENDENT sources indicate that liberals give more than conservatives. In fact, they give liberally. :)
Jesus most certainly was a liberal. His entire ministry was centered on bridging gaps between people and between God and man, not on the accumulation and retention of wealth and driving wedges, as is the staple of the right wing and in particularly the teabaggers (look at the archive photos of their rallies).
misjustice on November 03 at 5:55 p.m.
Holy crap, Batman! How’d this thread get hijacked?
Now sqawky is proselytizing? Including “Jesus” in his “sore winner” analysis?
Christ, what’s next?
; )
hawken on November 03 at 6:01 p.m.
MIsjudgment….
go back and read Mr. Natural…. he introduced the topic.. Are you learning disabled?
james_l on November 03 at 6:02 p.m.
@ misjustice:
I think he is visualizing Jesus spiking the ball in the end zone and doing a dance.
He believes that God and Jesus are trademarks of the tea party.
hawken on November 03 at 6:14 p.m.
Jblim….
1- you might want to better understand the “year of Jubilee”… every 50 years…. before you wrongly apply it…
2- My reference to unions citing Matthew 20…. is called “satire”, sarcasm, to make a point….
My apology…. I do need to stay close to ‘See Dick Run’ understanding that for some liberals, anything more is probably way over their intellectual capacity… (Hint…. more satire, sarcasm to make a point in response to your posts).
JBlim on November 03 at 6:22 p.m.
hawken is OK with canceling our debts every 50 years? He’s as bad as Jesus.
Seriously, who cares what the bible says? It was written in the stoneage, even before the wheelbarrow was invented.
hawken on November 03 at 6:36 p.m.
JBlim….
The “year of Jubilee” was God’s standard for Israel alone….
For His purpose, during a specific time in human history… relating specifically to how Jews would treat Jews…. once every 50 yrs.
Please consider both historical and grammatical “context” when you make an attempt to understand the Bible….
For example, we no longer sacrifice bulls and billy goats on the altar do we…. Historical and grammatical context…. context…
JBlim on November 03 at 6:41 p.m.
“. Historical and grammatical context….”
We don’t stone to death people for worshiping on the sabbath because it’s ignorant and barbaric. Why should we listen to anything else the bible says?
hawken on November 03 at 6:54 p.m.
JBlim….
You ask a good question:
“Why should we listen to anything else the bible says?”
Here’s a reason…. John 8:31-32
Here’s another, greater reason…. John 11:25-26
The reason you don’t believe is found in John 3:1-8
hawken on November 03 at 7:02 p.m.
JBlim…. another response to a good question…. the point you make…
“We don’t stone to death people …. because it’s ignorant and barbaric.
Like it or not, that was God’s rule at that point in human, Jewish History… for those who worshiped Idols…. Jews, who worshiped Idols.
I’m glad to respond to you on any Biblical questions you might have….
Where you fail, is to consider historical and grammatical context…. If you don’t like God’s rules at any point and time in history…. that’s between you and God. Take up the issue with Him… Nevertheless, I am more than glad to respond to any questions or criticisms you have concerning God and his written word.
It all makes perfect sense when understood in context.
There are those today whom say that capital punishment of any kind…. is “ignorant and barbaric.”
Would you agree?
force_vector on November 03 at 7:28 p.m.
The Bible was written by man, for man. In fact, it was the Council of Nicea you can thank for all that is contained in the New Testament. The council voted on all things you read, and believe, are God’s word. So, quit arguing. Unless you were there, over 1000 years ago, you don’t know wtf you’re talking about.
misjustice on November 03 at 7:31 p.m.
sqawken = Billy Sunday?
; )
james_l on November 03 at 7:34 p.m.
I usually just close the door when these people come by.
hawken on November 03 at 7:37 p.m.
Force…. Consider this….
While there are different views as to the extent to which the Bible is inspired, there can be no doubt that the Bible itself claims that every word in every part of the Bible comes from God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13; 2 Timothy 3:16-17).
This view of the Scriptures is often referred to as “verbal plenary” inspiration.
That means the inspiration extends to the very words themselves (verbal)—not just concepts or ideas—and that the inspiration extends to all parts of Scripture and all subject matters of Scripture (plenary).
Some people believe only parts of the Bible are inspired or only the thoughts or concepts that deal with religion are inspired, but these views of inspiration fall short of the Bible’s claims about itself.
Full verbal plenary inspiration is an essential characteristic of the Word of God.
Either the Bible is inspired by God…. or it is the biggest hoax that has ever been visited upon mankind…
The evidence that the Bible is in fact, the “Inspired Word of God”…. indeed delivered to mankind through God’s messengers is very hard to refute, based upon the wisdom of the analogy of Scripture and archeological evidence…
But again, if you do not believe…. See John 3:1-8 for the reason why.
hawken on November 03 at 7:45 p.m.
Misjudgment…. it would profit you greatly to actually read Billy Sunday…. I am not worthy to be compared to him….
But, I will gladly accept the sneer you give to him and me in the defense of the Gospel of Jesus Christ…
See John 15:18
“If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you.” Jesus
hawken on November 03 at 8:16 p.m.
For all unbelievers in Jesus Christ.. here’s something more to ponder….
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Jesus
Only a few according to the Word of God will have eternal life.
Again, I’ll be glad to respond to anyone who has criticisms or questions about the Bible or God…. Jesus Christ, God in the flesh.
And again…. if any of you have problems with the discussion on this string….. Go back to Mr. Natural… who introduced the topic.
JBlim on November 03 at 9:01 p.m.
hawken: Did God create himself too?
hawken on November 03 at 9:26 p.m.
Jblim:
God is not a creature, created by anyone….
God is eternal…. God is the SOURCE of ALL creation…
If you want me to explain the being of God…. that is well beyond my or anyone’s ability….
All I know is whom God Himself reveals Himself to be….
Through His written Word, His Incarnation, and His authority over the natural laws of man. Also called miracles.
He declares Himself to be eternal, with no beginning and no end…
The Alpha and Omega…. First and last letters of the Greek Alphabet…. which was of course the prominent language of the world at the time of Christ.
I can tell you this…. from a purely human, intellectual point of view….
It takes much more faith to believe in “evolution”…. than it does to believe in God as the Creator.
Humanity has two choices to explain creation…..
God…. and Darwin’s theory of evolution….
I’ll trust God.
The theory of evolution is totally, scientifically, bankrupt….. especially when it comes to the massive, geological record.
hawken on November 03 at 9:35 p.m.
Jblim…. here’s another huge problem for those whom believe in evolution…. It’s called “spontaneous generation…”
That life suddenly exploded from non-living material.
In order for life to be created…. it takes the following:
Intelligence (God)… Life does not “spontaneously” explode from non-living matter.
hawken on November 03 at 9:42 p.m.
Jblim…. if you or anyone else would like to continue a discussion of God…. since it so offensive to many…
You can contact me directly at: surmaxselect@hotmail.com
I promise you that our discussions will be totally confidential.
hawken on November 03 at 9:58 p.m.
Jblim…. I should clarify…. concerning the theory of evolution…
Micro evolution is provable…. One can breed a poodle with a pit bull and get something different than a poodle or a pit bull…. They are both of the same species….. dog.
One cannot breed a dog and a cat and get a new species that will continue to pro create the same species that might have been the result of breeding a dog and a cat.
For example…. you can breed a horse and a donkey,,,, producing a mule (rare example)…. However, mules cannot then pro create and produce another mule. The mule is an abortion of similar species.
On the other hand, Macro evolution is impossible…. monkeys did not evolve to become men…. The massive geological record proves this to be true…. There is simply no evidence of such a transitional species…. Lots of scientific frauds…. but no scientific evidence.
hawken on November 03 at 10:07 p.m.
Here’s a source which address the fraud of macro evolution…. There are many…
Entitled: Reasons I Believe In God
Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God
http://x-evolutionist.com/why-are-there-evolution-frauds-if-evolution-is-a-proven-fact
It’s written by former believers in macro evolution
JBlim on November 03 at 10:09 p.m.
“Humanity has two choices to explain creation…..
God…. and Darwin’s theory of evolution…”
The theory of evolution has nothing to do with the origin of the universe. Seriously hawken, what have you been smoking tonight?
hawken on November 03 at 10:23 p.m.
Jblim…. well in fact it does….
Now we understand that there are only two legitimate options for the origin of the universe:
(1) Someone made the universe (Intelligent Design), or
(2) The universe made itself (Random Chance). Same theory as “spontaneous generation”…. which is only one of the blantant failures of Darwinism…
http://www.allaboutcreation.org/origin-of-the-universe.htm
If you are seriously interested in this topic…. you need to do some more research for yourself… As I have done.
Sources are abundant on the Internet.
If you just want to blindly argue your preconceived belief…. It’s a waste of my time.
Past my bedtime…. the 10 pm news has covered all that I am interested in tonight.
james_l on November 03 at 10:32 p.m.
Ah….
The country saved from the godless liberals and the existence of God scientifically proven.
All in only 24 hours. Much better than Jack Bauer.
Scoutster on November 03 at 11:01 p.m.
hawken..
aren’t you a man of your word? Don’t you mean what you say?
You said you were going to stop posting after the election is over.
It’s over.
Good bye.
greenlibertarian on November 03 at 11:02 p.m.
Please do not feed the troll which has now morphed into a know it all Christianist and betrays Christ’s teachings.
hawken on November 04 at 7:00 a.m.
Scoutster
I did reserve the right to comment on things of certain interest to me.
I think I’ll add to that…. Annoy Scoutster on occasion.
JBlim on November 04 at 7:29 a.m.
hawken says: “The universe made itself (Random Chance). Same theory as “spontaneous generation”…. which is only one of the blantant failures of Darwinism…”
I says: “God made himself (Random Chance). Same theory as “spontaneous generation”…. which is only one of the blantant failures of religion…”
misjustice on November 04 at 7:40 a.m.
Saints preserve us!
; )
Scoutster on November 04 at 7:42 a.m.
hawken…
I just scroll past most of your rants like I walk past the tabloids at the supermarket. The only annoyance is when folks start to engage you and then the thread gets hijacked.
For the rest of us…
Just don’t respond!!!!!
misjustice on November 04 at 7:53 a.m.
Scout; what the hell just happened here?
Scoutster on November 04 at 7:57 a.m.
You mean micro or macro?! ;)
Hawken said he was going to go evangelize elsewhere (or at least stop posting here) after the election.
I was suggesting he keep with that plan, because I am sure all the regular posters here agree that’s a very good idea.
I was simply trying to keep him on the straight and narrow so he doesn’t lie and go to hell.
misjustice on November 04 at 8:06 a.m.
Scout; Thanks. Bless you, child. Now go and sin some more!
; )
A couple days ago was so nice; no sqawken posts. And then BLAM, he’s back with a vengeance. Kind of like those scary movies from the 80s…
I don’t really care but it makes it difficult to keep the conversation on topic (as much as it can be). And then there’s his name calling, and his constant use of “me thinks”, and his rudimentary grasp of logic, and quoting from the dictionary, and his over all rudeness to other posters.
Can you imagine actually living with an a$$hat like that?
Blessedly, he usually doesn’t come back to a thread once he flames/hijacks it…
Anyway, that’s my rant.
Have a great day!
; )
james_l on November 04 at 9:06 a.m.
It is a phenomenon known as predatory Christianity.
This is what led to the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, and countless other atrocities committed in the name of God and Jesus.
This becomes dangerous when it is blended with political power. People like this want to see the return of some “Christian” version of Sharia Law.
misjustice on November 04 at 9:19 a.m.
Oh, great.
Predatory Christianity + Predatory Capitalism + “Conservative” Political Power = our future?
eagleproducer on November 04 at 10:03 a.m.
I always knew it was conservatives at work who were making me sick. According to Hawken, it is their superior work ethic that requires them to spread infections.
I wonder why more liberals hold college degrees than conservatives. For some reason that doesn’t meld with Hawken’s version of reality. So it’s the lazy and unmotivated who graduate from college more often?
Anyone ever read “Mouseland” from the “Greatest Canadian” ever, Tommy Douglas?