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October 1, 2010 in City
Sheriff drops the wait in shooting probes
Investigators can question officer immediately
Investigators probing officer-involved shootings will no longer be required to wait at least 72 hours before interviewing Spokane County Sheriff’s Office employees.
Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich announced the change Thursday, ending a departmental practice common at many law enforcement agencies but seen as contradictory and confusing outside of police circles.
The move comes amid continuing public outcry over the nine-day lapse between the Aug. 25 shooting of Spokane Valley pastor and businessman Wayne Scott Creach by Deputy Brian Hirzel, who was allowed to take a scheduled vacation to Montana and Las Vegas before being interviewed by detectives investigating the fatal encounter.
Knezovich said Thursday the 18-year law enforcement veteran was willing to talk the night of the shooting, but investigators were concerned about violating policies prohibiting interviews in critical incidents like officer-involved shootings within the first 72 hours.
In his first in-depth interviews with investigators on Sept. 3, Hirzel said he fired on Creach after the older man refused an order to get on the ground, and instead reached for a pistol tucked into the back waistband of his pants.
Creach, who had gone to check on why a car was in his parking lot so late at night, died of a single gunshot wound to the chest. Hirzel was in uniform but driving an unmarked patrol car that he had pulled into the Creach family’s nursery and greenhouse complex at 14208 E. Fourth Ave. to watch for prowlers in the neighborhood.
Hirzel’s vacation, scheduled since March, was set to begin the day after the shooting.
Investigators told Hirzel, “it’s not going to hurt us if you just do it when you get back,” Knezovich said. “And the rest is history, or infamy.”
After enormous public outcry, investigators told Knezovich “we could have saved Brian, and quite frankly, you, a lot of heartache if we hadn’t had the policy so strict,” the sheriff said.
Knezovich said the policy originated in the 1990s. It’s no longer in effect as of Thursday.
“When something doesn’t make sense, we change it,” he said.
Sheriff’s Office employees involved in uses of deadly force can now give in-depth interviews immediately but still have the right to obtain a lawyer and cannot be coerced to make a statement during the criminal investigation.
“We’re just going to leave it up to the U.S. Constitution and the deputy to determine if he’s ready to give a statement,” Knezovich said. “We’re not to stand in their way.”
The Spokane County Sheriff’s Deputies Association approved the change, Knezovich said.
Sheriff’s spokesman Sgt. Dave Reagan said there was never a reason to change the policy until now.
“We’re having people who are apparently indicating they don’t need to wait 72 hours,” Reagan said. “It seems reasonable. You go with the comfort level of the person involved in the shooting.”
Creach’s son, Alan Creach, praised the decision.
“Something that was just completely unacceptable to the community has been disposed of,” Alan Creach said.
The Spokesman-Review first learned of Hirzel’s vacation from the Creach family, as well as other details surrounding the shooting that authorities withheld for more than a week.
Meanwhile, in a meeting Thursday with Spokane-area journalists, Reagan criticized the media attention given to Alan Creach during the days following the fatal shooting. He said he expects the Creach family to file a claim against the county and suggested Alan Creach simply was trying to increase the size of a potential settlement payout.
“I’ve never seen a non-witness be treated so much like an eyewitness,” Reagan said. “He’s looking at adding zeroes to his check.”
Alan Creach expressed disappointment over the comment Thursday, saying his family hasn’t decided yet whether to file a claim.
“I think that that right there is the kind of offensive attitude that this family has objected to since the night they killed my dad,” Creach said.
Reagan later sought to downplay the comment, expressing regret for how it came out, and saying it was “not my most tactful moment.”
Knezovich quickly distanced himself from his chief spokesman, saying the comment doesn’t reflect his office’s views. The sheriff added that Reagan told him Thursday afternoon he regretted making the comment.
“My statement was made out of a sense of frustration and it was insensitive,” Reagan said in a telephone call Thursday to The Spokesman-Review. “I probably shouldn’t have said it.”
Human trafficking suspects released 
karl2002 on October 01 at 6:47 a.m.
Sounds like Reagan is well qualified for his role as spokesman…not.
hawken on October 01 at 7:20 a.m.
Reagan’s comment is a typical law enforcement “circling of the wagons” when they are responsible for questionable shootings, other police mis-behavior and excessive force.
Reagan needs to be replaced. How obviously arrogant, insulting and disrespectful for him to make the statements he made toward the Creach family!
Their father has been gunned down, in a highly questionable shooting at the hands of police (I’m being kind here)…. and Reagan accuses them of wanting to profit personally from the fatal shooting of their father…. rather than acknowledge their loss. That he blatantly, defensively, accused them of greed is just cause for him to removed from the public relations position he currently holds.
The Sheriff had no other choice, politically, than to distance himself from Reagan’s comments.
Now let’s see if the DA is found to be in the center of the circled wagons as well.
lewis8457 on October 01 at 8:29 a.m.
They kill a innocent man and all they care about is the amount the family will sue for. And what do they care it doesn’t come out of their budget.
Just shows there is no compassion we are all just future targets.
So Hirzel is back on the job soon to kill again.
Odd how a common man after killing two people would be in jail or a pine box, but a cop just gets a promotion and a slap on the back by all his comrades as a job well done.
and we are paying these folks 100 grand a year.
I wonder how many of his fellow officers are clients to his dildo service.
lewis8457 on October 01 at 8:34 a.m.
who cares about the 72 hour rule when the cop will be found in the right regardless. Thanks Ozzie for throwing us another empty bone.
Ron_the_Cop on October 01 at 8:40 a.m.
To All:
I told Sheriff Knezovich when he took office that Sgt. Reagan needed to go as PIO. Reagan is ill-suited for this position for a number of reasons including a number of flippant remarks to the media. Reagan also is not very forthcoming with meaningful information that can be released to the public. I told Sheriff Knezovich that Deputy Craig Chamberlain projects a much better image for the Department.
BTW Sheriff Knezovich at my suggestion posted the critical incident protocol that through a joint agreement the WSP, SCSO and SPD all operate. Of course there are issues when SPD is in charge of the investigation which surfaced in the tragic Creach shooting.
I see Sheriff Knezovich has acted with the deputy sheriffs’ association to change the 72 hour interview provision that seemed to be cast in stone. This rule operated to the detriment of all involved in the Creach shooting.
Again where is Chief Kirkpatrick? The Police Guild should take notice and quit retreating into a “them vs. us” mode. The Guild has lost the trust of those whom they serve to protect. As a former police union president of some 350 members I understand the Guild’s issues and concerns.
So far the Guild’s valid issues with Chief Kirkpatrick and City budget issues requiring personnel cuts have been spun against them by Spokane’s power elite. The sins and omissions of the City elders are at the root of this structural budget deficit. Police and fire are being made the pawns to CYA for the losses incurred by our leaders. The RPS bond frauds alone will cost upwards of $87.5M. BTW I see chief architect Mike Ormsby was confirmed as US Attorney - talk about leaving the fox to guard the hen house:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/oct/01/senate-confirms-ormsby-for-us-attorney-post/?comments#c199016
See my comment in Shawn Vestal’s thread re the proposed cuts:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/sep/24/alleged-givebacks-are-a-cop-out-its-time-for-a/?comments#c196049
Here’s the link to the SCSO’s website. Scroll down for this document on right side of homepage to “Quick Links”:
Protocol to Investigate Officer Involved Fatal Incident
http://www.spokanecounty.org/Sheriff/content.aspx?c=2068
MrDavis on October 01 at 9:02 a.m.
If the sheriff’s policies can control investigations of a deputy involved shooting, what’s the point of having an outside agency conduct the investigation? Why would an agreement between the sheriff and the deputies union be binding on the Spokane Police detectives? Who’s really in charge?
Ed Byrnes on October 01 at 9:03 a.m.
“Reagan later sought to downplay the comment, expressing regret for how it came out, and saying it was ‘not my most tactful moment.”
This statement is so revealing of the contempt that so many officers and deputies have for us citizens and especially for anyone who strives to increase their transparency and accountability. Reagan is but a symptom of a larger and increasingly lethal disease in our community.
de3 on October 01 at 9:12 a.m.
Here is the link to the earlier version of this story, and the previous comments posted there:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/sep/30/sheriff-ends-72-hour-rule/
RobertHLocksley on October 01 at 9:13 a.m.
Empty politics and buffoonery. Hey Ozzie, where does the buck stop in your department? You’re damn lucky you are running unopposed. Seriously, where does the buck stop??
horse_feathers on October 01 at 9:15 a.m.
That’s right Dave victimize the victims more, and you cops wonder why the public does not trust you.
spokanecougar on October 01 at 9:20 a.m.
Ron the Cop, nice to see you be the mouth piece for defending Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich, but everyone knows the truth that he is about the most corrupt man in the sheriffs department. He is totally covering up this shooting, not releasing information and making sure his deputy who should be in jail for murder is sitting free with his family. While the family he destroyed by murdering a innocent man in cold blood gets no answers and continues to get the run around and the shaft by our sheriff.
Not only that Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich is continuing to waste our tax payer money to build himself a shiny new jail that is not even needed since the current one isn’t even close to being full and our horribly corrupt friendly local sheriff just laid off over 60 corrections officers.
Please, Rob the Cop, stop defending a man and department that is clearly corrupt and clearly doesn’t give a crap about the community it is suppose to serve and protect and is just throwing tax money down the toilet. Why can every single citizen in Spokane County see this but you and your fellow idiotic corrupt officers and deputies? No wonder we all hate local law enforcement in this area. Instead of being a mouth piece for them, just change your corrupt polices and get your police guild to stop being so retarded in defending cold blooded murders.
johno on October 01 at 9:56 a.m.
My goodness! Where did Reagan get his public relations training, Iran? Is this type of employee in this important position an example of Knezovich’s competance as a manager?
bszottlinger on October 01 at 10:00 a.m.
Sgt. Reagan’s comments demonstrate the need for a system for investigating these matters that is balanced, unbiased, and includes some type of independent oversight. In any case like this the issue of civil liability is clearly in the minds of administrators, and it should be. However, the concern over civil liability can not extend to the investigative process. Unfortunately, in Spokane County when it comes to decisions regarding criminal or negligent conduct involving the Spokane County Sheriff’s Office those decisions are made by an individual who has an obvious conflict of interest, in that, his office is not only responsible for deciding if criminal or negligent conduct was present, but he is also responsible for defending any civil action which may arise from the matter. Sgt. Reagan’s comments I am sure reflect the attitude of many SCSO administrators and employees. Because of the way the system is now set up and because he has not taken advantage of various options open to him we have to completely rely on Mr. Tucker to eliminate that attitude and any liability concern from his decision making process.
The Spokane County Sheriff’s Office, The Spokane Police Department, and the Washington State Patrol, up to this point have been fortunate that the officers involved in these cases have not invoked their Fifth Amendment Rights, something I have been surprised by. I feel a change may be coming in that regard, and we might see situations where an officers statement is not made until the administrative investigation is underway, a fact, not in the least bit uncommon. Allowing the officer involved at his/her request to provide a voluntary statement prior to the 72 hour or 48 hour limit, which ever one it actually is, apparently had to be approved by the union, which may give some indication as to what is covered in the contract.
Allowing an early voluntary statement is great, but keep in mind that the investigator conducting the interview will not have all of the information necessary to ask all of the appropriate questions, or perhaps request physical demonstrations of certain actions. Once the scene is investigated, all the witnesses are interviewed, and the forensic evidence is in, follow-up interviews will likely be necessary, and the if the officer involved so chooses they can take the Fifth in any later interview. I don’t look at this as a particularly big accomplishment but it is a start.
Interestingly, people have been chastising the law enforcement unions. Realistically if the unions were so bent on protecting their members they would recommend that the membership invoke their Constitution Rights in each and every case.
Based on recent SR articles I suspect something good is afoot concerning getting some answers to many of the legitimate questions that have been asked here and I’m anxious for it to happen.
Another thing that interests me is the fact that the KXLY reporter has managed to develop a rapport with a source inside the SCSO and it is interesting the way he is being used to release information to the public.
For you law enforcement folks out there that post here a lot of the public perception is based on your leaderships inability not only to understand the role of the media, but also an inability to manage the media.
Just a few rambling thoughts.
Brad
Scoutster on October 01 at 10:52 a.m.
Since a shooting is handled through an inter-agency protocol, does Ozzie have the authority to change the protocol unilaterally?
bszottlinger on October 01 at 10:58 a.m.
Scoutster:
Based on previous media reports, in which the Sheriff indicated that investigators had to take into consideration the various union contracts, I would guess that this is simply a renegotiated issue in the Sheriff’s Union contract, and therefore not necessarily the same for the WSP, or SPD.
bszottlinger on October 01 at 11:07 a.m.
Scoutster:
What happened to your perseverance?
Scoutster on October 01 at 11:25 a.m.
Brad..
Well, this time I think the elected official listened to the outrage of the public and remembered who pays his salary. Perseverance paid off.
The drug testing will “come clean” at some stage, too, as the thugs at the police unions will not be able to stop it once it becomes a campaign issue.
as I said last night:
The bonehead comment of Reagan has completely overtaken the lead, which is a positive thing: the removal of the 72 hr rule. Smart move by Ozzie: high profit, low risk.
Too bad Reagan laid a big fart right in the middle of the party. If Ozzie is truly a leader, he will remove Reagan as spokesman immediately as a signal that he “gets it”. (Sidebar: My totally SWAG feeling is that he verbalized the majority attitude of the LE community.)
Putting Hirzel back in is puzzling. He has to stay totally middling, and this is a definite lean. Even if he made up his mind, he shouldn’t be seen to have done so.
This should have been a 9 day for Ozzie, and instead it was a 3.
bszottlinger on October 01 at 12:37 p.m.
Scoutster:
Although there has been considerable previous discussion here regarding the issue of interviewing officers right after the incident, I find it odd that no one apparently including law enforcement and leadership in Spokane are aware that there has been considerable discussion going on in the national law enforcement community regarding a waiting period prior to the officer involved interview. The discussion all got started when contrary to previous studies the Police Assessment Resource Center an independent Ford Foundation funded group which does assessment of police practices, often at the request of local law enforcement agencies, reached the conclusion that a waiting period was not appropriate. Of course all of the PhDs that had done the previous studies recommending a waiting period came out and blasted PARC for their conclusions.
I am convinced that the problem in the Spokane area stems from a leadership structure that has been getting away with doing the same old thing, the same old way, for so long that they are not sure how to deal with change. It appears to me that the Sheriff is attempting to implement some change but doesn’t quite have the capacity to go about doing it. He cannot do it alone, it requires help from above and below, including all of the various elected officials. Ron_the_Cop correctly points out that Chief Kirkpatrick is conspicuously missing from the equation. But she is not the only one, not a peep out of the Mayor or County and City Councils, or for that matter most of the people running for election. I don’t know what the answer is but I’m positive it doesn’t lay with the vitriolic discourse we often see on this board. I also find it odd that many, not all, but many of the officers posting here have very limited knowledge of many of the issues. One would expect that of the public at large and the trick to making the public understand is transparency, not circling the wagons, not name calling, not questioning family motives, rather open and direct dialog.
Brad
Ron_the_Cop on October 01 at 1:53 p.m.
Spokanecougar,
WHOA! Excuse me. I have major issues with Sheriff Knezovich and the cover up of the Savage death in the RPS parking garage by all local LE agencies including the WA AG’s Office - County Prosecutor Steve Tucker was key in burying this case from public scrutiny. Read my savage case included in my RICO report:
http://tinyurl.com/ykemtqr
and table of evidence:
http://tinyurl.com/ybgkjqe
On the other hand I have to give credit to Sheriff Knezovich for changing the protocol re interviews at least for his own agency. Sheriff Knezovich was running the investigation for the Creach shooting - SPD was. SPD didn’t handle this investigation very well from the PR aspect - Chief Kirkpatrick was largely MIA. Why? And it looks like it was her agency that inadvertently leaked critical info to the press that should have bee keep confidential at least until Deputy Hirzel could have been confronted with inconsistencies with his initial statements.
Annyoakly on October 01 at 6:45 p.m.
It is good that we read, “when something doesn’t make sense, we change it.” Hindsight has taught some in the Sheriff’s Office something with this decision to make a pro-active policy. However,
it comes at great cost. Was it really pro-active? In this case, it is after-the-fact and with public pressure due to our out cry. At this time, I humbly submit that all the SO policies should be scrutinized. If any of the policy’s don’t make sense, they should not be there. If any policies are missing, put them in. If senseless policies are there, delete them. A law enforcement agency of this size or any law enforcement agency should only and sufficiently have policies and procedures that make sense.
Scoutster on October 01 at 9:10 p.m.
Brad…
I have been pondering your comment. And the statement from the Officer Kellerman reinforced what I had been wondering about for a few days.
Is there just not the “space” to allow for change?
Perhaps the majority of the rank and file are as embarrassed about some of the Guild actions as we are angered by them. But what are they going to do? The hierarchies are fossilized.
Now’s the time for some strong leadership to really offer up viable solutions for this problem.
It’s an interesting organizational puzzle: how to you change the prevailing values in an organization like the Spokane Police Guild?
Sadbuttrue on October 02 at 11:28 a.m.
“Now’s the time for some strong leadership to really offer up viable solutions for this problem.”
There will not be justice in the Creach matter unless the voting public votes strongly to get rid of the Prosecutor and the Sheriff in November. It’s painfully obvious that the “decision” not to prosecute the Creach murderer will not be announced until the day after or a few days after the election. He is already back on the job. What more evidence do you need that the public’s demand for justice and accountability has just been given the middle finger? When the Sheriff’s PR person announces publicly that the family is just money hungry, and takes absolutely no responsibility for this terrible tragedy by conducting an honest investigation and prosecution, it demonstrates absolute isolation from the public will.
The fix is in.
In the event that the Sheriff and the Prosecutor are reelected, then the Public must put extreme pressure on the FBI and the US Attorney’s Office to seize control of Spokane area Law Enforcement agencies and prosecute Hirzl under Federal law.
With the obvious decision having been made that there will be no criminal charges filed in State court, and with the Prosecutor and the Sheriff obviously waiting until after the election to announce the decision, the public must demonstrate their absolute disgust and make a vote of “no confidence.”
bszottlinger on October 02 at 11:55 a.m.
Scoutster:
I can only speak to my observations in reviewing many different police cases. In some cases there was strong leadership top to bottom, in others the leadership was so poor it caused a culture to permeate the agency that allowed for the type of attitudes we see here.
The old adage that the cream always rises to the top isn’t always true in the criminal justice system and government in general. The only way to improve upon those conditions is to elect strong leaders whose interest is in serving our interests.
As I see it one of the unfortunate aspects of young folks coming into a criminal justice profession is that they are, in many cases, indoctrinated in to a culture early on and it is only the strong independent thinkers who love their profession that are able to step outside the culture. I don’t think people realize the pressure that exists to conform to the culture and mind set that has been established it’s up to the leadership to change that culture and it can take several years even with great leadership to change the mind set.
The Zehm case in my mind is a perfect example of a culture of protectionism and ineptness that would have gone unchallenged had it not been for the federal government. To this day the elected and appointed leadership of the City of Spokane has taken a protect at all costs attitude toward the defense of the case. When I read that Officers had provided testimony to the AUSA and then after a meeting with City Attorney Treppiedi they changed their story it became obvious to me the amount of pressure that is put on officers to conform to the culture. When I read that Detective Ferguson now admits that the investigation was inadequate, I ask myself why was that allowed to happen and the only explanation I can come up with is, because of the culture. When I read that Chief Nicks now admits that Officer Thompson was not justified in his actions(to say nothing of the video issue), again without the federal case where would we have been and where are we now. The same is true of all of these shooting incidents, so many mistakes, so many attempts to smooth the public perception and act as if there isn’t a problem makes me wonder just how the good young cops who love their job and don’t want this happening will react. Will they finally come out and demand their leaders right the ship or will they buckle to the pressure. I remember in one of our previous dialogs cpd805. wrote that if it was him, he would have demanded a drug test, and I believe him. On the other hand there will be those officers that will do all they can to prevent mandatory drug testing, in the end we will see whether the cream rises or falls.
The Mayor and the City Council continue to support Chief Kirkpatrick. Why? Because of the culture. Although the elected County Council can’t directly tell the Sheriff how to run his agency, they could tell him and us their feelings. They could also at least talk to Mr. Tucker and explain to him that they are willing to spend the money for a Grand Jury, Coroner’s Inquest, Special Prosecutor, etc. and then tell us they have had that conversation. But they won’t because of the culture.
Brad
Ron_the_Cop on October 02 at 4:18 p.m.
Sadbuttrue,
Sorry the fix is in all the way to the US Attorney’s Office. The Zehm Case is a fluke. Some AUSA was concerned enough to do their job. The current US Attorney Jim McDevitt, I’m sure was riding the fence. Speaking of the new US Attorney Michael Ormsby, he’s even more “hinked up” to protect the interests of the Spokane power elite than McDevitt. Read my comments and read the link to Tim Connor’s piece at the CFJ re Ormsby:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/oct/01/senate-confirms-ormsby-for-us-attorney-post/?comments#c199323
As for Steve Tucker I’ve been very clear who should have been charged for rendering criminal assistance for burying the Savage manslaughter case.
Brad,
DAH! Perhaps you’re finally coming around to what former Sheriff Tony Bamonte and I have been saying for the last five years. Chief Kirkpatrick and Asst. Chief Nicks should have been fired a long time ago. As for Council and the Mayor forget it, they’re still shaking in their boots from the Guild and the City Attorney’s Office. Need I mention Mr. Trepiedi stunts re the Zehm Case and the matter with Mr. Breean Beggs? The City Attorney’s Office, CFO Gaven Cooley, Atty Laurel Siddoway (Now Appellate Court Judge) and Secretary Treasurer of the Cowles Co, Steven Rector should all be principles in a civil federal RICO prosecution.
When you figure out who’s tune the City Attorney’s Office, the Mayor and the Council march to, you will then be truly enlightened.
cpd805 on October 02 at 5:34 p.m.
Brad, you commented: “The old adage that the cream always rises to the top isn’t always true in the criminal justice system and government in general”
I believe this is partly because of the antiquated civil service system, at least in law enforcement. Officers are ranked on a promotional exam based on a score they receive on a written test. For supervisory positions, there is also an assessment center, but that holds no more weight than the written test. In SOME promotional positions, the department head is limited to a civil service “rule of 1”. Next on the list gets the promotion regardless of their reputation or past performance. Higher command positions have a rule of three or even rule of the list. I believe the “rule of three” should apply even in promotions to lower positions. Secondly, the civil service system tends to provide over-protection to bad officers. It is difficult to fire a poor officer unless they REALLLLLY screw up (Jay Olsen).
Scoutster said: “It’s an interesting organizational puzzle: how to you change the prevailing values in an organization like the Spokane Police Guild?”
I think unions in general are a problem, whether in police work, teaching, auto workers, etc. There is a tendency in these organizations to fight tooth and nail to get more, more, more for their members, regardless of the cost…..the cost monetarily, cost in efficiency, cost in over protection for their members. Couple that with the current civil service system, and you have trouble.
I am a member of a union, but you will never see me at a meeting.
bszottlinger on October 02 at 6:27 p.m.
cpd805:
Very well said, but we need people like you at those union meetings.
Ron_the_Cop on October 03 at 9:38 a.m.
DITTO Brad,
The Guild is not doing the rank and file any favors. I know first hand what happens in union meetings that can be dominated by a few loud voices. If the rank and file want real change they too need to attend the meetings to bring balance to the discussions/debate.
Elloki on October 05 at 1:09 p.m.
The SR and local media is the most biased, irresponsible I have ever seen. The deputy did nothing wrong, it’s just a matter of terrible and tragic circumstances for everyone. Mr Creach brought on and controlled the situation, not the deputy. The media has gotten so much wrong and misrepresented much in this incident, such as: reporting the deputy left for vacation “hours” after the shooing - he left 3 days later. He did provide a initial “tactical” interview the night of the shooting to the detectives. The department and investigators were in contact with him while he was gone on a regular basis. Reporting that the deputy did not call for an ambulance - listen to the radio tape, he immediately called twice and another deputy called once. Making a big deal of his vacation, which was scheduled for 5 months. Mr. Creach should have called 911 if he legitimately thought someone was breaking into his property, not grabbed a gun at 11pm and “challenge”, as his son put it, the person who happened to be a police officer. Nothing good can happen from this vigilante mentality. My support to the deputy and the police who risk their lives every day for us. THANK YOU.