Spokane7
65°
October 4, 2010 in Opinion
Pro: Initiative 1098 is about fairness
I am proud to be chairman of Red Lion Hotels Corporation and former CEO, but my thoughts on the importance of Initiative 1098 are my personal observations. However, it is the 40 years helping build and lead a company that forms my conviction on why we really need 1098.
Simply put, Red Lion and my predecessor companies weren’t a success because of my leadership. They prospered due to the great associates with whom I worked. It is their lives and their children’s futures that are at stake.
They have allowed me and my family to be financially secure while many of them are at risk and falling behind. Their hope of the American Dream, of a healthy family with college education is dimming while I prosper. How can that be right?
Our tax system is unfair. When I look at our employees I see entry-level workers hoping for a future. But how can they get there? The lowest 20 percent of our work force pays 17 percent of their income in state and local taxes. The middle income associates pay over 10 percent while I pay little more than 2 percent of my income in state and local taxes.
This recession shows that unless our employees and their children get a good education, their future is doubtful.
From December 2007 through August 2010 the unemployment picture shows how critical education is. Those in the work force who dropped out of high school are 14 percent unemployed while those who are college grads show only 4.6 percent unemployment.
Our workers and their children need to be educated. But how can they afford it?
Tuition at Spokane Falls Community College has jumped by more than 14 percent in the past two years. That is the opposite of what we need in a recession, when we should be making it easier for workers to go back to school and learn necessary new skills. Tuition at Eastern Washington University and WSU has increased 30 percent in just the past two years. Eastern now tops $6,000 a year, while at WSU it costs over $8,500 to get in the door. One result is that Washington is in the bottom quarter of all states in awarding bachelor’s and graduate degrees. That is no way to build a work force or give hope to hard-working employees for their children’s futures!
And it only gets worse when we look at what is happening in K-12. Our state has become the 45th worst state in the country for student/teacher ratios, meaning that average class sizes exceed 30 students per teacher in many of our schools. We spend less money than Alabama for each public school student in our state. As a result, in Spokane over one-third of all students don’t make it through high school and end up without even a high school diploma.
And way too many of our families are struggling for health care. If you aren’t healthy, how do you learn? The past two years have not been happy ones for the people of the Inland Northwest.
The state’s Basic Health coverage has been cut back just as more workers have lost their health care. Now there are over 15,000 people on the waiting list for basic health coverage, and that’s just in Spokane County.
Initiative 1098 provides the resources to make sure that our employees and their children have the same opportunities for education that we took for granted when we grew up. It ensures that the hundreds of thousands of unemployed who have lost health coverage in this recession can get basic health care. I-1098 will enable community colleges in Spokane, Eastern Washington University and WSU to enroll more students, to prepare them for the global economy. I-1098 is the shot in the arm we need to get our economy back on track.
So, you may wonder, how does Initiative 1098 solve these problems?
First of all, it gives small businesses a break by exempting them from the business and occupation tax. It exempts over four-fifths of all businesses from this tax and decreases it for another 12 percent of businesses. They will keep $260 million that they currently pay in taxes. Secondly, I-1098 gives every single homeowner a property tax cut and every single business with real or personal property a similar property tax cut. Property owners will retain nearly $400 million through this property tax cut.
These two tax cuts will help our citizens weather the storm during this recession. Across the state I-1098 will invest $2 billion a year in education and health care. We will have enough revenues for education reform to ensure that our kids have a high-quality road to high school graduation. We will finally be able to make sure we fulfill our state’s paramount constitutional duty for the education of all children.
We will be able to enroll more students in the community colleges and at EWU and WSU. We will stop the rise in tuition.
I-1098 also invests in health care, so that we will be able to make sure that all the people on the waiting list for basic health are covered and our small businesses have an affordable health care plan to offer their employees. We will reinstate vaccinations for children. We will invest in long-term care for disabled and senior citizens, enabling them to live in their homes with dignity and respect.
And how do we fund it? I-1098 creates a tax on the wealthy in our state — the top 1.2 percent. That’s about 38,000 households out of 3.5 million. The 2 percent I pay in local and state taxes will grow but still not to the percentage of our middle or entry work force.
All these public services are possible with passage of Initiative 1098. The alternative is higher class sizes, more dropouts, more ill people and increased emergency room visits, and more doors to college shut in the face of aspiring students. Please vote for 1098, it’s the right thing to do.
Don Barbieri is chairman of the board of Red Lion Hotels Corp.
Trudy Rubin: Egyptians say no to Islamists 
hawken on October 04 at 5:18 p.m.
Washington is one of six states that has no state income tax of any kind.
All of the above sounds very nice. However, don’t be fooled by these introductory rates. Taxes are like mold growing in your house. Once it get’s a start, it grows by inches until your whole house is consumed.
Twenty-percent reduction in property tax is promised! That is, until the legislature and governor over spend the next budget! Then property taxes go back up… and we still have the state tax.
The proposed state income tax promises to tax only those who make $200,000 or more. That is, until the legislature and governor over spend the next budget! Then incomes are taxed at levels below $200,000.
Just go through all of the above in the article… then mark them “temporary.”
Were we not promised that if we “hurry, hurry, hurry” and pass Obama’s $850 Billion Stimulous bill that unemployment would be held below 8%? … AND…. that our economy would recover! That didn’t work. Our grandchildren will be paying for this madness!
Were we not promised that with the “Cash for Clunkers” bailout would put our auto industry back on track. That didn’t happen either. It just created a temporary market spike in the auto industry because the government started subsidizing the auto industry.
There are some good things in I 1098… all of which relate to growing small business in our state… WHOM…. create 90% of our jobs.
If you really want to see the high unemployment brought back down by leaps and bounds….. make it possible for small business to grow and hire new employees. This was only thrown in as a “bone” go get support on the proposed, new, state income tax.
Once the camel get’s his nose under the tent…. expect him to come in all the way and take over your tent.
valleyman on October 04 at 5:26 p.m.
If so many of these “wealthy” folks in Washington are interested in a state income tax, I encourage them to write checks for whatever they feel is a fair rate/amount and send them to the state.
Stop trying to impose your system of tax the few to support the many. We need to learn to do more with less and stop squeezing every last nickle and dime out of our small businesses and their owners.
hawken on October 04 at 5:33 p.m.
Addendum to my comments above:
see http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.pdf
I see no state that taxes $200,000 and above….. Oregon and Hawaii both have an 11% state income tax.
Pass I 1098 and within one generation we will be well above 5% on $200,000 and more…… and way below the $200,000 income level. That’s my grandchildren who already owe some $360,000 for total US Unfunded Debt! See www.usdebtclock.org
Vote NO - I 1098
As for college tuition and the like… how about working your way through college…. like I did, like my wife did, like my younger son did (two degrees from EWU - Business and Marketing.) Take out a low cost student loan now nationalized by Obama and company….. and then pay it back.
All of us appreciate more what we work for and earn, than what we are given at the expense of someone else. Same is true of a college education.
Shylock13 on October 04 at 5:35 p.m.
Once any income tax is established in Washington, I am positive it will be extended, either in steps or all at once, to all incomes. And the politicos will leave the sales tax almost as it is now, reducing it a touch as a sop to us ordinary folks. I lived most of my life in a state (Massachusetts) that has both an income tax and a sales tax, the total percentage of which is beyond our present sales tax. Massachusetts also has private liquor stores; that’s why any resident who can do so goes to New Hampshire where alcohol at the state-run stores is far less expensive—but that’s a couple of different initiatives.
NancyAP on October 04 at 5:39 p.m.
We should ask Mr. Barbieri if he has his CPA look for every possible deduction on his Federal income tax returns. My guess is that he and his businesses take every deduction allowed by law. Or maybe he thinks he will save more in reduced property taxes than he loses in state income tax. There is nothing fair about taking money from people who may have saved and invested and been frugal in their lives and giving the money to others who in some cases may not have worked as hard or been frugal. Class warfare will ruin this country as sure as the tax and spend policies of our state and federal governments. Mr. Barbieri knows that the majority of people in this state will pay income tax in the future once 1098 passes. It is immoral that poor people can vote to take money away from the rich because there are more poor people than there are rich people.
hawken on October 04 at 6:21 p.m.
If you would like to know why so many oppose I 1098, creation of a new Washington State Income Tax….. go here:
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.pdf
hawken on October 04 at 6:28 p.m.
Sorry…. wrong link above….. go here instead to learn more why so many oppose the proposed income state income tax… I 1098
http://www.defeat1098.com/news/matt-mcillwain-the-case-against-i-1098
PlanB on October 04 at 6:33 p.m.
The core of the argument against 1098 seems to be that once we open the door to income tax, it will be open season for taxing everyone. Really? What evidence supports that, or is it just paranoia and fear?
My Idaho friends routinely admonish me about how superior Idaho is tax wise. But lets look that the facts about Idaho: Sales tax? Check. Income tax? Check. Sin taxes? Check. Property tax? Check.
I think this just gives legislators more options to work with. Let’s not forget these hard working, high income people got there in part because of the system we have in place which allows some to get rewarded disproportionately than others.
And I’m really puzzled by how the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has anything to do with 1098.
hawken on October 04 at 6:45 p.m.
PlanB: Let me see if I can help:
One a new tax is established, it is rarely if EVER repealed, state, local, federal.
Once a new tax is established, it is always raised.
You need only look at history at the state, local and federal level. You’ll need to do your own homework…. I’m tired of doing it for my liberal friends.
Regarding your question: What has the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has anything to do with 1098??
Answer: Promises,Promises,Promises…. just to get it passed. What was promised rarely seems to come to fruition.
Obviously, your ID friends are tax and spend as you….
hawken on October 04 at 6:49 p.m.
PlanB: One other thought…. you can tax the wealthy 100% of what they earn…. 100%! …. and It will still not solve our problems. You liberals have been using this class warfare argument my whole adult life….. I am not wealthy by the way.
hawken on October 04 at 7:04 p.m.
PlanB:
Please surprise me and respond in this debate…. based upon my history in debate with you, this is where you usually go away.
I will give you credit for this, so far….. you have not trashed me or the others personally with vicious name calling which is the standard practice for liberal thinkers when they cannot debate.
Well done! Congratulations!
hawken on October 04 at 8:32 p.m.
Thank you all for your views….. Debate is healthy for our Republic. Good Night.
JBlim on October 04 at 9:59 p.m.
hawken says:
“..One a new tax is established, it is rarely if EVER repealed, state, local, federal. Once a new tax is established, it is always raised. You need only look at history at the state, local and federal level…”
Well that’s easy, Washington State used to tax car tabs, now it doesn’t. Ronald Reagan signed a bill lowering the top US income tax rate from 70% to 50%. George W Bush signed legislation that lowered tax rates about 3% or more. There is no inheritance tax in 2010. Obama cut taxes in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.
So your statement that “Once a new tax is established, it is always raised” is simply not true.
gmorton on October 04 at 10:26 p.m.
Mr Barbieri wrote,
” The middle income associates pay over 10 percent while I pay little more than 2 percent of my income in state and local taxes.”
That is irrelevant. The relevant question is, “Are the taxes you pay proportional to the benefits you receive from government?”
Unless you take your income to be a benefit of government, then comparing your tax payments to your income is idle. One has nothing to do with the other.
gmorton on October 04 at 10:32 p.m.
PlanB wrote,
“Let’s not forget these hard working, high income people got there in part because of the system we have in place which allows some to get rewarded disproportionately than others.”
“Disproportionately”? What does that mean? “unequally,” perhaps?
Are their talents, skills, ambition, and efforts equal?
gmorton on October 04 at 10:39 p.m.
The other question for Mr Barbieri is, of course, as Valleyman (above) suggests, if you are unhappy that you are paying only 2% of your income in taxes, why don’t you simply write the governor an annual check for whatever amount you consider “fair”?
gmorton on October 04 at 10:44 p.m.
JBlim wrote,
“So your statement that ‘Once a new tax is established, it is always raised’ is simply not true.”
You’re right, JB. That statement is false as a universal; taxes are occasionally reduced. It is correct as a generalization, however. You need only examine the proportion of GDP consumed by government in 1900 (about 7%) and compare it to the fraction consumed in 2010 (about 45%) to see that.
JBlim on October 04 at 10:53 p.m.
gmorton, yes but we don’t need to be fighting wars of choice in the Middle East or continuing to fight the cold war long after it ended. The Defense Department is bloated, I’d look for cuts there nationally. In Washington State, 1098 is a fair proposition. We don’t need to be gutting our universities and other programs that promote the state’s well-being.
Blondscence on October 05 at 12:31 a.m.
Mr Blim…do you specifically know where and when a state income tax has been reduced or abolished? Some taxes have been but NOT any income tax ever heard of. Let’s not mix up our taxes Sir.
If you have ONE example of a St income tax being reversed, speak up please. I know of none.
It must be remembered who actually generated the Barbieri money…Don was handed everything by his father and his grandfather. Both began with little and built fortunes..expecially his dad. Don acts like he made it all and will be thinking it’s good to do the “payback” so many do. Well his position is an easy one….if he didn’t sweat blood for his money. Sure he’s wroked but he began at a far baseline and than amy of the casual readers.
I think it’s wonderful when the Gates family and indeed Mr Barbieri are so thoughtful when they’re wilingl to pass out other peoples’ money. Speak for yourself! Why don’t you rich people write big checks for the public good….only if you want to though. Don’t be telling people who make $200 K or up what they should do with their money……and what’s th elogic behind all this? Well, well, but but but…because “you make too much” And of course they determine who makes “too much”. You do gooders spend all your money but don’t speak for mine.
Further though…small business who make over $250K will have to pony up. I’m not so sure small business will be hiring when the State takes their money for someone else’s idea of “fairness”. Oh but well sure get some form of tax cut…no thanks. I’ll make may own decisions on my business growth and how many I hire..without fear of someone else MAKING me do what THEY think is correct. Again though…let the rich write big checks for the underprivleged in the state. Talk to the hard working folks when their checks are written.
This is still America. We work, we scimp, we take risks,….us who began with nothing but a chance don[t want anyone risking our childrens’ chances too. Thanks a lot for all your socialist advice…but I’ll be working for America as I see it. But if and when someone with serious bucks gives it up for the state, let me know. I’ll leave a light on for ya;) Sorry if there are typos, my glasses are too steamed to read.
Sarajane46th on October 05 at 3:18 a.m.
“It is immoral that poor people can vote to take money away from the rich because there are more poor people than there are rich people.” So one person, one vote is immoral in your system? No, this is not immoral in any system. It’s just democracy. If you are a Christian, the Bible tells us in 1.500 citations that it is our obligation to take care of the poor. You are so afraid of losing what you have that you chose to ignore the moral obligation to share with those who are less fortunate.
Many writers here don’t trust the legislature to leave the taxable limits in place. We only have to trust them to act in their own self-interest. Voting for an income tax is considered political suicide in Olympia. That’s why this is an initiative. Initiative 1098 contains language that it can only be changed by a vote of the people. No legislative majority would dare to ignore this. Want further proof? Every year, one Senator has introduced an income tax bill. No one was willing to co-sponsor it. Not one. Very popular King County Executive Ron Sims is considered to have lost his campaign for Governor because he advocated a state income tax. Every politician knows these facts and no one will touch this “third rail of politics.” We can trust politicians not to change Initiative 1098.
As Bill Gates, Sr. says, “It’s the right thing to do.”
jddavis on October 05 at 9:23 a.m.
Sarajane46th, the Bible does say repeatedly to take care of the poor. What it doesn’t say is for you to take my money to take care of the poor!
I would much rather help my children get a college education than yours or anyone elses…if you think that is immoral too bad.
healthcareworker on October 05 at 10:08 a.m.
Hawken commented: “Once a new tax is established, it is rarely if EVER repealed, state, local, federal.”
This is truly wrong and anyone who voted for an Eyman initiative can tell you that actually it is easier to repeal a tax than to pass it.
The WA taxes on car registration is a good example. We pay only a fraction of taxes on car registration than we did 25 yrs ago.
He also said: “Once a new tax is established, it is always raised.”
Again most of our taxes in the last 10 years have gone down forcing states, counties and cities to keep searching for new sources of revenue. He also forgets to mention that if 1098 was passed then the B&O tax would go down for most small businesses.
Hawken wrote: “You need only look at history at the state, local and federal level.” But where is that evidence? I want dates and examples. I haven’t seen the opposition show any proof other than to make comments like Hawken has here. If he did his homework then it would be easy for him to site examples….where are they? Like I said Taxes have gone down in many ways in the last 10 years, but our government must have revenue and if you want roads, schools, fire depts, police and health care we need to find a fair way to finance these services. Taxes are a means to pool our limited resources in order for all to benefit. Why should the poor and middle class be required to do this for the rich?
Please do your homework by reading all sides to the issues. See:
http://www.yeson1098.com/morefacts.html
johno on October 05 at 10:54 a.m.
Once again, many of those opposed use fear and speculation to smear a well thought out piece of legislation. Property taxes cut for all, small business taxes cut. They can’t argue against those benefits so they play the fear card that this will lead to income taxes for all of us. Do they seriousely think that Washington legislators would vote for an income tax on all when they would have to face the voters? Or that Washington state voters would approve such an initiative? The practical effect of the intiative is that most people will see a tax reduction because property taxes will be cut.
gmorton on October 05 at 11:43 a.m.
Sarajane46 wrote,
“So one person, one vote is immoral in your system?”
Not *per se*. It is only immoral when one attempts to use one’s vote to seize others’ money (or anything else) for one’s own benefit.
Voting, and the principle of majority rule, is simply a decision procedure, useful when you have multiple decision-makers, all of whom have an equal right to make the decision. All persons do not have equal rights to other people’s money, however. When you begin pretending that you do, you are engaged in theft, whether you are in a majority or not.
“It’s just democracy.”
Yes, it is. That is why the Founders did not create a democracy, but a constitutional republic, which attempted to protect against the “tyranny of the majority.”
gmorton on October 05 at 11:49 a.m.
JBlim wrote,
“In Washington State, 1098 is a fair proposition.”
What sense of “fair” is this? I believe “fair” means, “getting what you deserve,” or “getting what you pay for.” It does not mean “equal.” “Fair” is when you are paying for government in proportion to the benefits you receive from it.
hawken on October 05 at 3:45 p.m.
I stand corrected…. rightly…. new taxes are NOT always raised…. only 95% of the time….
hawken on October 05 at 4:00 p.m.
Those who want to discredit the argument that the vast majority of new taxes are raised… and never go away… once they are passed….
“squint at a gnat and and swallow a camel.”
JBlim on October 05 at 4:57 p.m.
gmorton says: ““Fair” is when you are paying for government in proportion to the benefits you receive from it.”
Paying your taxes is not like paying your membership fee at the country club.
gmorton on October 05 at 8:17 p.m.
JBlim wrote,
“Paying your taxes is not like paying your membership fee at the country club.”
True. It’s more like paying protection money to a mafioso.
mmspowaus on October 06 at 4:38 a.m.
A hypothetical tale of two men, BBQ Chicken and I-1098
Ed, the guy who holds up a sign at 3rd & Division had a good day. He collected over $100.00 in just one morning. He decided to go to Bob’s Chicken & More to celebrate with a 3 piece BBQ chicken meal for lunch. Coincidently, Bill Gates who was in Spokane on business, and also loves good Texas Style BBQ chicken, happens to walk into Bob’s Chicken & More at the same time as Ed.
Both men sit down next to each other and order the exact same meal; extremes on the economic spectrum sharing a common love of Bob’s BBQ chicken – Texas style…
The tab for lunch comes due and each man takes out some cash to pay for their own meal. Only instead of the each paying the same rate for the same exact service and lunch, Bob, under the advice of William Gates Sr. imposes a progressive income fee on lunch based off of the patron’s income (only if the patron make over $200,000.00 or more per year- for now at least…). The more you make, the more you should pay….it is only fair….according to William Gates Sr. In the spirit of I 1098.
Ed, who has only $107.02 to his name, pays $7.47, Bill Gates Jr. pays $6,334,327.43.
Ed thinks that was good chicken; and if he does well tomorrow, he’ll be back for lunch, Bob of Bob’s Chicken and More is thinking this progressive tax works for Chicken & More…Bill Gates jr. is thinking as much as he likes BBQ Chicken, he is going to patron some other restaurant that does not have an income fee for lunch…Why should he pay more for the same exact service just because he is wealthy?
The above simple example is one of the reasons I will be voting NO for I-1098.
We are all equal under the law. We should not pay more the same exact service just because we are wealthy…
JBlim on October 06 at 6:11 a.m.
Right, matt, everyone pays a flat fee for membership, just like at the country club. So $3,500,000,000,000 / 310,000,000 people = $11,290. Not bad. Oh right, the wife and kids. So that’s $45,160. Hmm, getting steeper. Then there’s those who won’t ever pay, prisoners, disabled war vets, crackheads, orphans and quadriplegics. We’ll have to adjust the denominator, hmm. Well this is going to end up being more than the average guy even earns. Hmm, got to keep up that war budget, let’s see now… Suggestions??
gmorton on October 06 at 11:37 a.m.
“Well this is going to end up being more than the average guy even earns. Hmm, got to keep up that war budget, let’s see now… Suggestions?”
Yup. Cut the dense budget by 50%. And repeal all unconstitutional federal programs.
JBlim on October 06 at 5:01 p.m.
OK, gmorton, we’ll work on that for the next budget. What about the present? Still need the solution to the country club style tax because as matt says “We are all equal under the law. We should not pay more the same exact service just because we are wealthy…” What’s the per citizen payment to pay for the budget?
gmorton on October 07 at 12:46 p.m.
JBlim wrote,
“What’s the per citizen payment to pay for the budget?”
Depends on the size of the budget. Eliminate the boondoggles I mentioned and it would quite reasonable.
dougfresh on October 07 at 1:23 p.m.
All this commentary and no one actually throws out actual #s that people will be paying. Say a couple makes $500,000 a year, which is a really nice living regardless of where you live in this state. They would pay $5,000 in state income tax. A couple making $1,000,000? A $30,000 tax bill. Might have to settle for a Porsche instead of a Ferrari. Boo f’in hoo.
Don’t like it? then adjust your income accordingly, I’m sure you’re employer would gladly give you a pay cut to stay under that $400,000 mark. And most business owners with large amounts of gross revenue would probably not see any net increase in tax considering the tax break in the B&O tax (based on revenues not profits). Still don’t like it? Close your business, another entrepreneur will likely step in to fill the demand.
I was actually on the fence about how to vote on this, because I was also concerned about the tax sliding down to lower income levels, but seeing all the greedy crybabies posting here has convinced me to vote YES. Thanks guys for helping me make my decision!
slight on October 07 at 5:59 p.m.
Not sure where Mr. Barbieri got his statistics, but in 2005, the IRS released the statistics that say the top 1% of taxpayer adjusted gross incomes pay 39% of all tax DOLLARS (let’s use dollars since percentages are really meaningless!). (Also, “gross income” means income before all the tax breaks that people think they get.) The bottom 50% of AGI’s paid only 3% of all tax dollars.
I know the IRS statistics relate to federal taxes, but since federal tax dollars are typically larger for most taxpayers than state taxes I think it’s fair to bring federal taxes up.
Tax the rich and they’ll leave Washington and possibly take the jobs they’ve created with them. Why? Because they have the means to do it and most of them are not dumb! Then who will pay your taxes?
JBlim on October 07 at 8:51 p.m.
slight say: “Tax the rich and they’ll leave Washington and possibly take the jobs they’ve created with them.”
More scare stories. If they leave someone else will take their place. American free markets will leave no market unserved. You can bank on it.
eagleproducer on October 07 at 11:00 p.m.
hawken buzzed: “Once a tax is enacted it is RARELY repealed.”
What were the tax rates on the highest earners in the 1950’s? Were millionaires leaving the U.S. in droves and small businesses closing en masse?
Class warfare is what has been tearing this country apart. It’s been the rich against everyone else since day one, and especially since the mid 1970’s.
Keep believing it is the poor draining you dry.
Still waiting on that dissertation, doc.
eagleproducer on October 07 at 11:04 p.m.
slight: The wealthy only pay that huge proportion of taxes because they have that huge proportion of income.
Income taxes are the best types of taxes because they are usually inherently progressive. Washington is one of the most regressive taxation states in the nation and it just doesn’t make sense to place a lions share of the burden for funding a modern functioning state on the shoulders of those least able to pay.
Remember what Al Capone said when asked why he robbed banks?
eagleproducer on October 07 at 11:08 p.m.
matt: You should pay more because you get more from the system.
The courts basically exist to settle business disputes. That’s on your tab.
eagleproducer on October 07 at 11:15 p.m.
And since you like (junk) match analogies, let me put this in front of you:
Same restaurant, same two people. When the bill comes due, Ed owes 8.9% sales tax, just like Bill Jr. Who of the two is paying a larger percent of their income towards this tax? Ed will spend every dime of that $100 and since he probably isn’t doing much cooking at home, all will be subject to sales tax. Bill Jr. will save or invest 99% of his income which won’t be subject to any sales tax.
Do you see the differences between our analogies? Mine is based in reality if you are having trouble getting a start…
mmspowaus on October 08 at 2:52 a.m.
Spoketucky:
SO many comments and so little time…
First off, your …ahem …so called “analogy” was NOT better than mine…
You had no humor, comments on BBQ or even free advertising for a local business… without my analogy, yours is a ridiculous collection of words about some non-existent discussion…
Face it S-tucky, your work was a polka version of a great rap song remake of a 1970’s hit rock tune….kinda Sucky there S-Tucky…
The hypothetical saga continues…..per an indirect request….
Ed indeed owed Washington State sales tax; (one of the highest rates in the country…) He does not cook at home since he lives under a bridge when not at the Union Gospel Mission. He will be leaving Spokane soon via rail to winter under the sunny skies of Houston, Texas - now that hurricane season is over… Great BBQ down there…and the TEXMEX is to die for…
Unless Bill Gates hides his fortune in a very large mattress, he will be forking out a great deal of tax money to the feds and B&O money to the state of Washington for his businesses…on top of his steep sales tax he paid at Bob’s…
He is not going to invite his dad over for Christmas until December 13th as retribution for I-1098.
Bill Gates Jr. looked up the history of Income Tax in the USA and realized that the poor as well as the rich were victims of bate and switch…
It was under Woodrow Wilson that the Income Tax became the law of the land in 1913. The poor only had to pay 1% up to the first $20,000 and 7% for anything over $500,000. This lasted until 1916 when the people of the day found out that there tax rates had sky rocketed to double…2% up to $20,000 but 15% to the top bracket…Wilson got re-elected before the public realized this….
It only took 3 years for the income tax to DOUBLE…on the poor…all under the democrat Wilson administration…by 1917 the lowest bracket got dropped to just $2000.00 and folks making more than $2000, saw their taxes at least double again with in a year…
Bill Gates Jr. realized that once the income tax legislation was in place, it was just a small matter of time before incremental increases would happen…
Having an easy source of cash does not cause legislators to work creatively to save money; they seem to grow quickly addicted to the rush of just raising income taxes to pay for their pet projects….if we don’t study history, we are doomed to repeat it’s mistakes folks….
Update:
Bill Gates flew Ed up from Houston over the holidays for some good ol’ Texas BBQ at Bobs Chicken & More in Spokane (after Bob recanted his Income based lunch fee). Bill Gates Jr. hired Ed to go t-paper Bill Gates Sr. yard at his Lake Washington home in retribution for attempting to saddle the good people of Washington State with an unnecessary and oppressive tax system…I-1098 that eventually victimizes the poor under guise of sticking it to the rich…… bate and switch, bate and switch, bate and switch
(sorry; an ad that used the “Be our Guest” song from Beauty and the Beast came on the telly and it got me off track…).
Ed thought about charging Bill Gates Jr an income based fee for the job but decided not to. He was hired by Bill Gates Sr, to clean up the T-Paper mess and then charged Bill Gates Sr. the income based fee….
Ed made enough money to open a chain of TEXMEX restaurants in WA and ID. He died a rich man and donated his tasty fortune to the Union Gospel Mission…
If I-1098 passes, it will only be a few years before people making less than $200,000 will be paying it.. and a few years after that everyone will…it will double, then double again within the decade…if history would be any indicator…
Like ordering a good BBQ sandwich for lunch and getting haggis, I-1098 is bate and switch…
JBlim on October 08 at 6:28 a.m.
I really don’t mind paying my taxes. Republicans are just a bunch of misers. Sure, we all want taxes to be reasonable, but to make that your whole raison d’être is really quite a bore. So are you guys with long, windy posts with very little content.
eagleproducer on October 08 at 7:36 a.m.
matt: If only all authors could right their own reviews, eh?
You didn’t address the gist of the claim, which is Washington is a regressive taxation state the heaps the burden of supporting the government on those with the least ability to pay. Income taxes are progressive taxes with those with more ability to pay paying higher rates because it does not affect their lives as much.
Why don’t you just admit you are greedy and want to keep more of your income?
Your hypothetical scenarios are not based in reality but “what if” and make believe. Sounds like a typical conservative. Mr. Gates, like most of us, live in the real world.
You hear so many voices on the right stating government should be run like a business. Who would propose a business model (other than a dollar store) that sought to exploit those with the least amount of disposable income? That is how Washington is currently operating.
I will be voting against this initiative and all the initiatives. The Democrats hold a large enough majority in Olympia to pass a state income tax. It is up to the progressives in this state to hold their feet to the fire. That is how the system is supposed to work, not the mobocracy (often funded from outside of the state) of initiative style governance. The sales tax should be drastically lowered instead of property taxes should an income tax be considered.
dougfresh on October 08 at 9:44 a.m.
Spotuckey you make a good point about the initiative system. Really they need to have some restrictions on contributions to initiative drives. People were paid anywhere from $1-$3 per signature to get signatures for this initiative and the other big ones. If people of our state don’t believe in something enough to go out and gather sigs for free, the initiative should not be on the ballot.
eagleproducer on October 08 at 10:22 a.m.
morton: You confuse fair with value. Two different notions.
PlanB on October 08 at 12:28 p.m.
Hawkin:
I make it a point to not reduce myself to name calling or personal attacks. So if you value those behaviors, why are you attacking me?
Sometimes I will respond to information that is factually incorrect, such as your statement “Once a new tax is established, it is always raised.” (incorrect) and the 1098 answer “Promises,Promises,Promises…. ” which is an empty response.
I’m not here to debate really, but to voice an opinion or question that hopefully will be heard by elected officials and bureaucrats. I don’t hate my government. I am pretty pissed off about a lot of things it does however.
PlanB on October 08 at 12:32 p.m.
gmorton:
By “disproportionately” I am referring to the exceptional people who’s talents, skills, ambition, and efforts exceed that of the CEO’s, CIO’s, CFO’s, etc.. for which they work, but are rewarded with far less.
Dazzeetrader11 on October 08 at 7:54 p.m.
All one has to do is tell us one St income tax that was stopped once enacted. Doesn’t happen.
I do continue to wonder why people are all for singling out a business or an individual because the work hard and make lots of money. Seems like a silly idea in the US.
Kind of like a land grab. How could it possible be justifiable to take some oneses money because they’ve made money.
Doesn’t amke sense to do it ”’Just because” they have it. It’s organized stealing for no reason other than they guy or business you steal from has made “enough”. Nonsense. It’s a communistic idea wherein the masses single out a group..”just because”. WHy doesn’t Barbieri just come out and say we want your money because “I” or “we” think you have too much and “we” need it. SO there! It’s illegal . This is where voters go wrong. Who are YOU to tell the wealthy what they need or want?
You make up a cause and play hell trying to justify your new cause. No logic to it….”we just made it up” is what happens in HS or college when screwin over someone for a shakey reason.
As I said, if Don Barbieri or Bill Gates wants to write a check to Gregoire…have at it. I need mine though and intend to keep it unless I see a cause I believe in…then I write the checks on my terms…afterall it IS my money and I did earn it.
JBlim on October 08 at 10:07 p.m.
Well that’s a selfish attitude, Daisy. Contrary to what you apparently believe, you didn’t earn all that money you have in a vacuum. You couldn’t have done it without the community, the roads and bridges, the educated workforce and so on that you were born into. It’s OK to give back to the world that gave you so much opportunity.
eagleproducer on October 09 at 12:44 a.m.
Dazee: See the history of Native Americans. It’s the American way.
mmspowaus on October 11 at 6:01 p.m.
Spotucky et al
I did address the original issue in my two part allegory; income taxes are unfair…once installed the lazy legislators soon inflict them on everyone…it is only a matter of time…
Who should decide who should pay what rate of tax?
The lame legislators including Chris Marr, Timm Ornsby and John Driscoll who got us into this 3.5 billion dollar plus deficit?
I think not…
Ya don’t give the shameless drunks the keys to the liquor store as a method of reducing their drinking…
History has proven, it doesn’t work…