Spokane7
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October 18, 2010 in City
Murray, Rossi debate taxes, earmarks, stimulus
Patty Murray and Dino Rossi continued their war of words over tax cuts, federal spending and health care Sunday as they debated a second and final time before next month’s election.
Murray and other Democrats are about to drive the country over a financial cliff, Rossi warned. Rossi and other Republicans want to take the country back to the failed polices of the Bush administration, Murray said.
Sitting side by side on the set of Seattle television station KOMO, the two candidates for Washington’s Senate seat remained far apart on the best way to improve the economy and increase jobs.
Rossi’s answer: Get rid of the uncertainty over what government’s going to do next, cancel expensive health care reform rules, and continue all the tax cuts passed in 2001 and 2003. Businesses “don’t need Sen. Murray’s bailouts and they don’t need her stimulus,” he said. “Jobs do not come from government.”
Stimulus funds are creating jobs, Murray shot back, ticking off a list of West Side projects, from Seattle road projects to strengthening a dam on the Green River, that are paying private contractors to hire workers. “Mr. Rossi’s going to give them a pink slip.”
Rossi repeatedly criticized Murray for adding “earmarks” to legislation to spend money on local projects. Murray, who is seeking her fourth term, never used the term earmark, instead defending the allocations as directed federal investments.
Given a chance to ask each other a question, Murray asked how Rossi would pay for extending tax cuts to those making more than $200,000 a year. He responded by criticizing her for leaving Congress without approving any tax cuts, adding: “Sen. Murray is going to continue to raise your taxes.”
Later, she chided him: “You didn’t go anywhere near answering my question.”
He replied: “I answered your question, but not with your answer.”
Sometimes they both declined to answer a question posed by the KOMO journalists, such as whether they’d vote to raise the retirement age for Social Security. Have to wait for a commission report, both said.
Asked what painful cuts they’d be willing to make to reduce the budget, Rossi again mentioned earmarks. Put everything on the table, said Murray.
One of their sharpest disagreements was on immigration policy and whether children of illegal immigrants who have been in the country for years should have a path to citizenship. Rossi said he hadn’t heard a good solution yet for that problem, but he suggested U.S. immigration policy begins with “a high fence and a tall gate” to secure the southern border.
Murray said she supported legislation that would put those children on a path to citizenship if they go to college or join the military. “A tall fence and a high gate isn’t going to help us on the northern border. We need more border patrol,” she added.
Rossi questioned whether Murray could have read the entire 2,600 pages of the health care reform bill that passed earlier this year and asked her to elaborate on a comment in Thursday night’s Spokane debate that she authored part of it.
Was that the part that calls for fines for people who don’t buy health insurance, tax increases to pay for it or more bureaucrats to administer it? Rossi asked.
Glad you asked, Murray replied, saying she wrote the section to expand programs for family doctors in medical schools.
Supermajority for taxes unconstitutional, judge rules 
Dazzeetrader11 on October 18 at 3:23 a.m.
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/29/baucus-thanks-wellpoint-vp-liz-fowler-for-writing-health-care-bill/…
There is NO provision in Affordable Care for additional med student tax cuts or incentives that isn’t part of the law already. bill.
If Med Students go to underserved areas, they automatically get loan amounts mitiagted…it been the case in the early 70’s .Teddy Kennedy did that.
There is a section on Nurse practitioners moving to underserved areas. She didn’t write it.
Murray’s pretty loose with the facts. “Fudge” is a nice term I wouldn’t use.
mikeln on October 18 at 6:17 a.m.
They both stink of corruption.
SpokaneLiberal on October 18 at 6:17 a.m.
Daisy you are right that loan forgiveness was in existence for doctors and nurses in rural and under-served areas long before the law. The law does, however, expand the funding, increase the percentage for repayment, and broaden the ease of qualifying. It isn’t as if it was created out of thin air, however it did undergo a pretty decent overhaul.
DHF on October 18 at 6:33 a.m.
18 years of Patty Murray is enough. She would like to continue drinking the same swill with the rest of the swine. We need to stop sending all of our jobs overseas that are propping up thest corrupt governments. Her liberal tax spending ways have got us into this situtation. I love my country and I worry that she will survive, And by the way I am not a Republican. CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME DHF
misjustice on October 18 at 6:45 a.m.
DAZE; Wow! Girl, Firedoglake? Must be the “liberal” in you! ; )
I watched the debate and must say, I thought I was watching a repeat of Thursday’s performance. The questions asked by the panel were so similar to the previous debate that there was nothing new here…sadly. Additionally, the candidates answers/nonanswers did not reveal anything that we didn’t already know.
liarsinnews on October 18 at 9:12 a.m.
Mom in tennis shoes, Patty Murray is such a hypocrite. Murray ads talk about Dino Rossi accepting money from a savory low life lobbyist. Did Murray forget she was the second highest receiver of money from Abramoff, who was sent to the Iron Bar Hotel. Did Murray forget she refused to return the money from him like most of the other politicians did. Even Hillary Clinton sent the money she received from the thug back. Murray refused to return the money she received from the felon, trying to justify keeping it with a feeble excuse. The money was probably for services rendered. Murray`s tennis shoes are very dirty.
misjustice on October 18 at 9:21 a.m.
dick; you are correct about Abramoff being the conduit for money given to Murray by Native Americans, Abramoff was the lobbyist for several tribes.
“The Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe in Michigan gave Murray $14,980. She received $12,000 from the Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians in California; $9,000 from the Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians; and $5,000 from the Coushatta Tribe of Louisiana…”
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/256542_murray21.html
I think that Senator Murray should have given the money back, like Senator Cantwell did.
soccermomsusie on October 18 at 10:50 a.m.
Now you’ve gone too far when you slander one of the greatest Republicans of our times and close friend of the greatest president of all times (GWB) - Jack Abramoff.
Yes Murray did accept money from the Indian Tribes to work on their behalf. But the brilliance of Mr. Abramoff was that he took part of the money that the Indians had given him and used it to lobby against their interests through a different group - one dominated by Republicans.
That is not just brilliant! I am going to say it - IT’S AMWAY BRILLIANT! No wonder Amway is such a big contributor to our conservative causes. Amway understands how to make things happen, how today’s economy must work.
When I listen to Dino and watch his style, I think he, like Abramoff, channel the Amway spirit (and I mean this in a Christian sense not in a witchcraft way).
As for the debate itself, I try not to tally up “gotchas” or facts or figures; I listen to the Lord talking to my stomach (ladies don’t have “guts”) AND THE LORD SAID “DINOOOOOO BY A KNOCKOUT!!!!” to my stomach. My stomach said it. I believe it. That settles it.
ROSSI WILL PUT THE “W” BACK IN WASHINGTON - VOTE ROSSI - IT’S THE AMericanWAY!!!
HEAR OUR VOICE!!!!
hawken on October 18 at 11:01 a.m.
Murray is a big government, tax and spend liberal of the first kind!
Let me quote the Seattle times, known for it’s liberal bias…..
“Sen. Patty Murray and Rep. Norm Dicks of Washington have the dubious distinction of being among the biggest abusers of pork barrel spending, according to a new report released Wednesday by the group Citizens Against Government Waste.”
Murray ranked…. “seventh among U.S. senators in terms of spending on pork projects…”
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/357525_earmarkswash031.html
Concerning the stimulus…. it isn’t working now…. and it didn’t work in the Great Depression when another big government, tax and spend, liberal did his damage… let me quote Roosevelt’s Treasury Secretary….
“We are spending more money than we have ever spent before, and it does not work. After eight years we have just as much unemployment as when we started, and an enormous debt to boot.”
Treasury Secretary To Franklin Roosevelt
Henry Morgenthau, May, 1939
Unemployment has increased from 8% to 10%…. a 25% increase in unemployment since the stimulus money has been put into circulation.
We can “quibble” about the fine points of the stimulus….. that’s like debating which way a sparrow is being blow around in the middle of a force 5 hurricane!
The problem is THE HURRICANE! Not, which way it’s blowing the sparrow….
Murray is a CHAMPION of pork barrel spending, tax more and spend more and big government.
She needs to go!! Wake up people!
Please,,,,, vote Rossi…. help put an end to this madness!!
The financial future of our children, grandchildren, great great grandchildren and beyond….. depend upon it!
Dazzeetrader11 on October 18 at 11:02 a.m.
Liberal…would you let me know which section you’re quoting? I read the whole thing last January and again last night …till it was simply too late. I cannot find the so-called “I wrote it” section. ….on this very topic.
It sounds so familiar but I cannot find the darned thing!
soccermomsusie on October 18 at 11:27 a.m.
I am glad someone brought up socialist FDR! I bet if he hadn’t spent any stimulus money and just did some deregulating of the financial industry and some tax breaks for our betters, we would have made it out of the Great Depression someday.
Obamatron 2000 should put down his Koran and pick up a history book and learn from FDR’s mistakes. Instead, like FDR, he is going to keep up with the failure of socialism and just be a one-term president.
Yes, Patty Murray and her pork barrel projects - like Boeing! What a waste.
Rossi is right, government has never created one job. I mean obviously were not counting soldiers, sailors, airmen, firemen, policemen, librarians, doctors, nurses, meter maids, garbagemen, etc. But what about any jobs outside government that government creates? Show me one. OK, I mean beside road construction, housing construction, defense industry jobs, etc. Okay. I will give you that, and of course there is the job of senator which Dino will take. BUT BESIDE THIS, GOVERNMENT HAS NEVER CREATED ONE JOB IN THIS COUNTRY!!!
If Barry O’Kenyan would read up on old one-termer, peacenik FDR he would have learned that too.
DIno, I know that you were just repeating a talking point on this one, but you say it with conviction AND PEOPLE NOW GET IT!!! Keep repeating these great, well-thought-out, intelligent remarks. This is what we want in a senator (even though it is a job government created). Hey, maybe we should privatize senators! Wait a minute…
VOTE ROSSI TO PUT THE W BACK IN WASHINGTON!!!
HEAR OUR VOICE!!!!
soccermomsusie on October 18 at 11:44 a.m.
Hawken I love when you say:
“We can “quibble” about the fine points of the stimulus….. that’s like debating which way a sparrow is being blow around in the middle of a force 5 hurricane!
The problem is THE HURRICANE! Not, which way it’s blowing the sparrow….”
At first I worried that you were going to be one of those who blamed President Bush for what others say was a lack of regulation. I thought you were calling that the hurricane, or the wars which GWB skillfully kept off the books. But then I read the rest and realized your heart is in the right place.
If Obama had just let all the banks fail, had let the auto industry fail, the investment companies fail, I know you and I would be singing his praises right now, even if we were singing them in a burned out hulk of a country! We would not have been partisan and blamed him for not taking action. We would be solidly supporting him for letting the free market be free. Maybe someone else would take a cheap political shot with the devastation but not us!
Yes, government does bailouts all the time. Remember when the best president GWB bailed out the airlines? Why was there no crying out about this (even though the economy was strong and would have covered the loss of a couple of airlines)? I’ll tell you why. Because GWB was not a Kenyan and not a Muslim. That’s why.
Everybody, if you like the honest, intelligence of a man like Hawken, you will find it in DINO ROSSI!
VOTE DINO!! HE WILL PUT THE W BACK IN WASHINGTON!!!
HEAR OUR VOICE!!!
hawken on October 18 at 12:03 p.m.
soccermomsusie
Let the banks fail if they cannot remain solvent…. let the auto makers fail,,, if they cannot produce a better product than the Japanese…. the Germans,,,, the Italians,,,, the Swiss,,,, the Koreans,,,, etc, etc,
Get the government and the unions out of the way, specifically, as it applies to the auto industry,,,, and the rest of the world will be eating our dust…
Let the incompetent in business go bankrupt….!! … they will be replaced with more creative American business…. it’s called free enterprise… it’s called incentive…. it’s called AMERICA!
The biggest OBSTACLE and ENEMY…. to AMERICA… is liberal, big government!
If our current situation as a nation…. and the history of the Great Depression under Roosevelt….. doesn’t convince AMERICA, In November and again in 2012…. we really are in trouble this time….
I have confidence in AMERICA! I guess we will see,,,, starting,,, in November….
VOTE ROSSI
jddavis on October 18 at 1:20 p.m.
I’m stuck on the concept of “paying for” tax cuts. What the heck kind of financial management is that philosophy?
How am I going to pay for the wage increase I’m not getting?
soccermomsusie on October 18 at 2:42 p.m.
Hawken, you and I think alike. I am tired of the revisionist historians saying FDR got us out of the Great Depression, that he won WW 2 or that he was (get this) elected for more than one term.
BTW, I like the “….” between your thoughts. You are obviously a great man like Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh…. I can almost… hear their….. voices…..when I read….. your prose……!!!…..!!!!
Down with Libertard Demoncrats!!!! UP WITH HAWKEN AND THE TEA PARTY EXPRESS!!!!…..!!!!!
IF THE FREE MARKET CAN’T FIX IT, LET IT ….CRUMBLE BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT…. GOD…. SAYS WE SHOULD DO!!!!
VOTE ROSSI, HE WILL PUT THE G…W….B….. BACK IN WASHINGTON!!!!
HEAR OUR VOICE!!!!
hawken on October 18 at 3:15 p.m.
jd
People need to consider your point more closely….
“…Murray asked how Rossi would “pay for” extending tax cuts to those making more than $200,000 a year.”
People should understand,,,, Murray sees “tax payer money”
…as belonging to her,,, or government…
Therefore, returning tax payer money, to the tax payer,,, is an expense that big government must pay for,,,, since it is a cost to big government,,,, according to Murray’s liberal, big government ideology.
According to this thinking, government sees government as creating the “tax payer” money… rather than the tax payer.
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money”
Alexis Tocqueville (1805-1959)
hawken on October 18 at 3:34 p.m.
jd… you’ve got me thinking more about your point…
I’m wondering why it might be, according to Murray, that government has to “pay for” tax cuts for those whom make $200,000 or more, whom she singled out….
But, apparently DOES NOT have to “pay for” tax cuts for those making less than $200,000.00.
By the way, these very tax cuts, to which Murray refers, have been in place since Bush.
This makes her question even more perplexing…
How do we (Murray) “pay for” the “increase in taxes” we will get if we “take away the tax cuts we have already given”?
If you figure that one out please post your idea….
This is the danger of digging too deeply into the liberal mind, seeking enlightenment…
it will have you walking in circles, rapidly twiddling your fingers under your chin and mumbling to yourself…
my wife had to slap me on the cheek, to bring me back to my senses!
jddavis on October 18 at 3:57 p.m.
“Paying for tax cuts” hides the reality of what is happening. The phrase as it relates to the $200K break point leads people to believe that if you earn less than $200K, you will be funding those who make more than $200K.
Some who buy into that mantra think the government is giving those who make over $200K some sort of bonus, just because they are “Bush’s cronies.” What isn’t propogated by the government is the percentage of income those who make over $200K pay in taxes. Well “NUTS!” some say because they feel that those who make over $200K “make enough” and they should “pay their fair share.” For those who don’t think the $200K+ croud don’t pay enough, I ask how much is enough?
“Paying for tax cuts” is a way for politicians to mislead people who don’t know or don’t care to know how taxation works. Unfortunate but true…
hawken on October 18 at 4:10 p.m.
Progressivity and the Tax Burden
* According to data from the IRS,
*the bottom 50 percent of income earners pay approximately 4 percent of income taxes.
* The top 25 percent of income earners pay nearly 83 percent of the income tax burden, and the top 10 percent pay 65 percent.
* The top 1 percent of income earners pay almost 35 percent of
all income taxes.
* The top 400 richest Americans paid 1.58 of total income taxes in 2000.
Only 47% of Americans pay income tax.
http://taxesandgrowth.ncpa.org/
Icarus on October 18 at 5:26 p.m.
You know I hate to say this but I pretty annoyed with our choices.
I going to have to go with the devil I know in this case. Im not happy about it Shes not really appealing to me nor do I agree with a lot of what shes done. However I agree a lot less with Rossi Who seems to be more like a snake to me.
Again Kinda downhearted on the choices and wish we had some better choices…
soccermomsusie on October 18 at 5:27 p.m.
I know the Demoncrats want to bring the tax rates back to where they were during Ronald Reagan’s time.
That is why Ronald Reagan will always be #2 to GWB’S #1. Obviously, Ronald Regan had a bit of a socialist streak to him. But face it, he was a Demoncrat before GE made him an offer he could not refuse. Sometimes, it’s hard to wash all the liberal, socialist ways out of your soul. Ronald Reagan did the best he could, but still #2.
What about tax rates during Nixon’s time - he taxed like the offspring of Mao Tse Tung and Adolph Hitler. That’s why he was not a true Republican and the hippies loved him so much. PLUS HE FOUNDED THE EPA. It’s funny, you would never see Nixon and Wavy Gravy at the same time. BECAUSE THEY WERE THE SAME HIPPY PERSON!!
Lastly, what about Eisenhower? Tax rates then were something like 90% for the wealthiest among us. Eisenhower was a class traitor. Remember what he said about not trusting the military industrial complex?!!? Can you imagine any politician saying something like that today? Eisenhower was Lenin and Marx rolled into one.
I am forced to admit, that Obama when compared to all the other recent Republican presidents (except GWB) comes off as a conservative. I am gagging as I type this. Lord, forgive me, just hear me out!!
Really, the only decent Republican, Conservative president in the last 50 years has been George W Bush - God’s Wonderful Boy - GWB. It is nice to see that the entire Republican Party has now been cloned in His Image. This means nothing but success for we conservatives and bringing our nation down to where it needs to be.
Sure, when the rich were taxed a lot, our country enjoyed its greatest economic times. However, this is not the point. The wealthy are wealthy because God wants it so. For us to tax them is to displease God and seek His wrath. Remember Sodom and Gemorah. God destroyed them because of their taxing the rich (mostly).
VOTE ROSSI! PUTTING THE W (GWB’s W) BACK IN WASHINGTON!!!!
HEAR OUR VOICE!!!
Scoutster on October 18 at 8:20 p.m.
soccermom…
Keep it goin’, Sugar!