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October 21, 2010 in News
Obama challenges GOP on cuts
Says voters should ask what they’d do
President Barack Obama talks with Erik Foss, his wife Cynnie, left, and their daughters Anna, 8, and Elsa, 5, in the living room of their home in Seattle today.
(Full-size photo)(All photos)
SEATTLE – Voters should be skeptical of Republican candidates calling for smaller budgets and ask what they’d cut, President Barack Obama said Thursday.
Appearing in a northeast Seattle neighborhood for a “backyard conversation” with about 35 local residents, Obama hit on two things that could be key to Washington’s U.S. Senate race: Federal spending and women voters.
Sen. Patty Murray, who joined Obama behind Erik and Cynnie Foss’s remodeled home in Wedgwood, is locked in a re-election battle with former state Sen. Dino Rossi, one of those Republicans calling for smaller government and less spending.
Hoping to stem Democratic losses in Congress halfway through his term, Obama is on a western swing that included Oregon on Wednesday, Nevada today for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, and California Friday and Saturday where he’ll campaign for Sen. Barbara Boxer.
Without mentioning Rossi by name Thursday morning, Obama said voters should ask anyone calling for less government “what exactly do you mean to cut? If they can’t answer the question, they’re not serious about it.”Thursday afternoon, Rossi parried with a Seattle event of his own, a press conference in a building on the shores of Lake Union, which he described as “across the way” from the former Odyssey Maritime Museum. The museum received $4 million in federal funds through Murray-sponsored earmarks and later closed. (The museum was actually a couple miles away, on the waterfront in Seattle’s Belltown.)
Rossi said he’d try to get Congress to drop the process of “earmarks,” in which members direct funds to projects in their states or districts. Even if he wasn’t successful, he wouldn’t seek earmarks for Washington until the federal budget is balanced.
When a reporter pointed out that earmarks are a very small piece of the massive federal budget, Rossi replied that they still represent a serious problem: “They use earmarks to get a senator to do something they wouldn’t ordinarily do on their own.”
He wouldn’t rise to Obama’s challenge to name what he would cut. Instead, he said the budget would have to be studied line by line, then recalled putting together the state budget in 2003 and having other legislators fighting proposed cuts because it was just a small amount of money. “Those small amounts all added up.”
Julie Edwards, a Murray spokeswoman, said Rossi doesn’t understand the federal budgeting process and was essentially saying he wouldn’t help community leaders who come to him with worthy projects.
In the backyard session, Obama defended policies his administration and Congressional Democrats have pushed through in the last 21 months. But he acknowledged the effects of some things like health care reform are just starting to be felt, but insisted they will be regarded as “absolutely the right thing in 20 years.”
The stimulus package “did cost money and it added to the deficit,” Obama acknowledged, but he defended it as necessary: “Had we not taken those steps, had we dropped into a depression, the deficit would have been even worse.”
The theme for Thursday’s session was helping women in the difficult economy, and Obama used it as a chance to highlight some emerging Seattle businesses owned or operated by women that are growing, with government help, despite the economy. Jody Hall, owner of Cupcake Royale, said she was able to open a fourth and fifth shop in the last 18 months, adding 30 workers, in part because of a Small Business Administration loan that she secured. Christina Lomasney of Modumetal, a high-metals manufacturer, said her company received a U.S. Energy Department contract through the Recovery Act.
Men were hit harder first, Obama said, in part because they are the largest part of the construction industry which shed jobs as the recession set in. But women make up half of the job force and are a growing number of entrepreneurs, so they are affected by tight credit and the inability to borrow money to start or expand their businesses.
There’s also a good political reason to highlight women’s issues in Seattle. A recent Washington Poll shows Murray enjoys a significant lead among women voters, while she and Rossi are virtually tied among men. And a close race could depend on mobilizing voters in heavily Democratic King County, the state’s most populous county.
State Republicans, who have been calling recent visits by Obama, Vice President Joe Biden and former President Bill Clinton the “D.C. Bosses tour” criticized the stop as “a blatant abuse of taxpayer money” that should be repaid by the Murray campaign. “If this is a taxpayer-funded official event, why is the president suggesting questions to ask Republicans on the campaign trail,” Laena Fallon, a spokeswoman for the state GOP, asked in a post-event press release.
After an hour in the Foss’s backyard, Obama and Murray headed to the University of Washington’s Hec Edmundson Pavilion where they spoke to an overflow crowd at a get-out-the-vote rally.
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bdr on October 21 at 1:30 p.m.
Yep typical dumb Americans run right back their their abuser.
hey what do you expect barely 1/2 retain any schooling or have a memory.
Well now for the next 6 years we’ll have the worst of two worlds
big spender Dems 50% and tax cutter Repubs at 50%
if they both get their way…..the deficit will soar off to Mars.
they both add to the deficit 100%
Id say…..cut schools by 50% and send the teachers and the money into the workplace to train the dropouts!
((this system works perfectly in Germany and UK))
make a law that outlaws banks….period. you must pay cash for everything like they do in South America.
with this law you’ll an immediate improvement to the economy by saving all that interest. (kiss inflation goodbye)
hawken on October 21 at 1:38 p.m.
Obama’s says:
“Had we not taken those steps, had we dropped into a depression, the deficit would have been even worse.”
Don’t you see…. the stimulus was intended to save big government programs and spending, when tax revenues were down significantly, per Oboma himself….
…not to create more, private sector jobs…
“au contraire,,,, contraire”…but to fund big government spending deficits.
No wonder that unemployment has increased by 25% since the stimulus…. 8%-10% = 25% increase…
Asking Obama and his liberal left following, in Congress (Patty Murray, et al), to “cut spending”…. is like asking a severe alcoholic to quit drinking.
VOTE ROSSI - Help put a stop to this madness!
liarsinnews on October 21 at 1:51 p.m.
Obama is in fact talking to village idiots. Why does he continue to blame the GOP for his problems with congress when the fact is Obamaist does not need a single vote from the republicans to pass his asked for legislation. The idiots believe what he is saying. They don`t understand that`s what smiley Pelosi can do for his big appetite to spend money. Obamaist spending will cause the demise of our financial treasury when China calls in the bonds his Secretary sold to them. MELT DOWN USA.
spokanada on October 21 at 2:17 p.m.
Is it just me or were there no reasonable ideas about cutting the budget from the first three posters.
It’s one thing to whine and complain but at least offer a solution.
hawken on October 21 at 2:25 p.m.
spokanada
So… where are your “reasonable ideas about cutting the budget?
Let me quote you…..
“It’s one thing to whine and complain but at least offer a solution”
.
eagleproducer on October 21 at 2:42 p.m.
bdr: Your description of educational priorities in the UK and Germany could not be more wrong. Students are separated prior to high school on different tracts. Some continue on academic tracts to prepare for higher education while most pursue vocational training that fits them with a specific skill determined by market demands. They don’t have a problem with their national government determining a national education policy like many in this country do. With such planning they are much more able to respond to changes in production and the overall economy. Apples to apples, dude.
dick: Why would China ever do that? I’ve heard the sheeple bleating what you just bleated but not one of you can explain why it would benefit China to take such a self-defeating course of action. You can call the Chinese anything you want, but stupid isn’t one of them.
Also, name the last time the U.S. failed to pay a debt.
How can citizens simultaneously boast of being the best place in the world but have such loathing and contempt for the institutions that form the foundation?
tick, tick, tick…
Next!
hawken on October 21 at 2:45 p.m.
Here are some more consequences of the Obama’s big spending bailouts….
Today, the Federal Housing Finance Agency said that the bailout [of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac] will cost taxpayers somewhere between $221 billion and $363 billion.
“The moral of the story here is pretty clear. Quasi-public enterprises like Fannie and Freddie don’t work. The risk they take on can grow much too great, because unlike private companies, they don’t need market discipline and suffer from moral hazard.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/10/fannie-and-freddie-bailout-to-cost-221-billion-to-363-billion/64955/
What’s a hundred forty billion, give or take? It’s just taxpayer money.
VOTE ROSSI - Help put a stop to this madness!
jddavis on October 21 at 2:51 p.m.
Spoketucky: “How can citizens simultaneously boast of being the best place in the world but have such loathing and contempt for the institutions that form the foundation?”
Good question Spoketucky…why then do you loathe and have contempt for the military “institution” and the men & women serving?
hawken on October 21 at 3:12 p.m.
Here’s how it works… with China and other countries…
1- They buy US Treasuries.
2- We MUST continue to sell US Treasuries, borrowing more money to support our big government spending.
3- When countries, pull back on buying our US Treasuries, as China just did…. some 5-6% less…. at some point we have to raise the interest rates we pay on those treasuries, in order to continue to sell them to governments like China….
”’in order to continue to keep feeding our big government spending.
4- When interest rates go up…. inflation/hyper-inflation is just around the corner.
Take it to the bank…. the only way out of our mess, if we don’t stop the borrowing NOW….and take our medicine to let the markets get us out of this mess, as free markets always do if left alone….. is for the government to inflate interest rates, print more money and thus, devalue the dollar.
There are only two effective, hedges to inflation/hyper-inflation…. precious metals (gold - silver) and real estate. Why do you think that gold and silver are at historically high prices? It’s not just the private investor buying gold and silver…. it’s governments!
Countries that are buying gold
“The World Gold Council reports that Argentina bought 42 tons of gold bullion recently. Of course, there are those of us who hope that the Argentines have decided to go back to using gold as money, so that the citizens of Argentina will never again have to suffer the woes of inflation and crushing debt.”
“And it is not only the Argentines who are buying gold. Other countries are too. The guys at the World Gold Council and China Financial Services think that maybe the huge appetite for gold in China could cause the sales of that metal to soon rise to 600 tons, from the current 200 tons, a year. They figure, “That would add about 12% to current world demand.”
http://www.dailyreckoning.co.uk/gold-investment/countries-that-are-buying-gold.html
When inflation/hyper-inflation come home to roost…. precious metals and real estate will go up in price…. significantly more.
VOTE ROSSI - Help stop this madness!
SpokaneLiberal on October 21 at 3:52 p.m.
Hawken
Please outline $1 trillion dollars in cuts.
I can’t.
Even if I could if I cut $1 trillion in domestic spending the 8-10% unemployment would become 40% overnight.
So take it further outline $1 trillion in cuts and a detailed explanation of how that being removed from the economy will reduce unemployment (and not exacerbate the business cycle downturn) to 4-5%?
johnclarke on October 21 at 3:53 p.m.
“Here are some more consequences of the Obama’s big spending bailouts….”
Um now the Freddie and Fannie bailouts originated under President Obama? Hawken, would you kindly stop spewing your fabrications - seriously man - you have to stop making things up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_takeover_of_Fannie_Mae_and_Freddie_Mac
Stop the madness Hawke ! ha ha
spokanecougar on October 21 at 3:54 p.m.
If we cut our defense budget in half and end our unnecessary global empire we would be able to wipe out the debt, pay for major and desperately needed infrastructure improvement (roads, electric grid, rail, airports, ports, etc.), have free health care for all, improve teacher salaries and build newer schools, allow more kids to go to college with bigger grants and less loans, and still money left over to put into a rainy day fund.
This if we only cut the defense budget in half, but we would STILL have the largest defense budget in the world.
hawken on October 21 at 4:03 p.m.
SpokaneLiberal
You present a “false dilemma”… it’s another liberal, logical fallacy.
Of course, there cannot be $1 Trillion in cuts, to be made overnight… to fix the mess we are in!
It is going to take time for the free markets, world-wide, to fix the mess we are in… Only free markets and economic law can fit this mess. Government CANNOT! No matter how much we borrow, tax and spend!
“The good news is that economics is not all that complicated. The bad news is that our economy is broken and there is nothing the government can do to fix it. However, the free market does have a cure: it’s called a recession, and it’s not fun, easy or quick. But if we put our faith in the power of government to make the pain go away, we will live with the consequences for generations. “
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123033898448336541.html
You and your liberal left colleagues don’t recognize, nor understand, basic, economic law,,,, unlike Communist China,,, who does.
There is no overnight fix as you suggest….
However, if we could get you big government, Obama liberals to quit borrowing, taxing and spending, it would empower the free markets to make the corrections in a much shorter period of time, with less pain and having less of an impact on our children and grandchildren.
jddavis on October 21 at 4:03 p.m.
…or perhaps fund only what the Constitution mandates.
hawken on October 21 at 4:08 p.m.
spokanecougar
Since you profess to be an educated man… surely you must know that the number one priority of government is to defend the homeland… I know of at least 3000 families whom were victims of 9/11 whom also would remind you of this as well.
The rest of your post is nothing more than Roosevelt all over…. It does not work!
We have been there and done that… as they say….
“We are spending more money than we have ever spent before, and it does not work. After eight years we have just as much unemployment as when we started, and an enormous debt to boot.”
Treasury Secretary To Franklin Roosevelt
Henry Morgenthau, May, 1939
Your worn out, tried and failed, liberal left world view has been a train wreck every time it has been tried…. throughout history!
Here we are again!
johnclarke on October 21 at 4:17 p.m.
I nominate Hawken for office. The office of “cut and paste fabrications.”
hawken on October 21 at 4:18 p.m.
Clarke…. I am no fan of the spending Bush did…. maybe you haven’t noticed…. We haven’t heard from Bush for two years…
SpokaneLiberal on October 21 at 4:20 p.m.
Hawken
Apparently you haven’t been paying much attention to the positions I stake out. First, let me point out I am a student of economics and economics, while appearing simple (like you claim it is) is far from simple.
It isn’t just supply and demand. Unpriced factors skew things. Most reasoned economists acknowledge that the goal of markets is to efficiently allocated resources to their highest and best use. Sometimes other anomalies (especially morality) interfere with that efficient allocation.
So what can be done? First we have to insulate to all participants the costs. You won’t like this because it means businesses need to be taxed for the full cost of national defense, corporations must pay for the education of their employees, they must pay a per mile fee for every worker driving to work and returning plus all freight. If we truly use efficient markets to allocate resources the fiduciary burden on businesses become so burdensome it makes China, and the USSR circa 1956 look business friendly.
So how about you have a real discussion instead of accusing people of not knowing what they are talking about?
SpokaneLiberal on October 21 at 4:20 p.m.
Not hearing from Bush doesn’t mean his spending legacy isn’t still hitting us.
hawken on October 21 at 4:24 p.m.
Clarke…. pick up any scholarly book…. you will see quotes and footnotes, usually at the bottom of the page… sometimes following the quote itself…. by your measure …. these too would be called “cut and paste.”
“It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.”
~William G. McAdoo
spokanecougar on October 21 at 4:28 p.m.
But if you think anyone could undue the damage Cheney/Bush did in two years Hawken, you are delusional. As Obama even says, if it is not turning around in two more years, vote me out - which I will be doing if it is not turning around - but I still plan on at least giving him 4 full years, not 2 and then start complaining about everything like you and others seem to be doing.
Also, I know defense is a major priority. But again, cut the defense budget in half and we still have, by far, the largest defense budget in the world and will have plenty to defend and keep us safe. Close our overseas military bases and bring those troops home to defend out own land, not Bulgaria, Japan, Iceland or Germany. Our oversized defense budget and overseas bases didn’t prevent 9/11 did it?
hawken on October 21 at 4:34 p.m.
SpokaneLiberal
Another liberal left, Red Herring, logical fallacy… we’re talking about Obama liberalism and big spending policies…
However, In fact you are correct, the Bush spending legacy is “still hitting us.”
Another logical fallacy you commit….. “Two Wrongs Make a Right.”
In other words, since Bush was a big spender…. that justifies Obama and company being a big spenders as well…
At some point…. the American people need to shout “ENOUGH!”
hawken on October 21 at 4:39 p.m.
spokanecougar
“but I still plan on at least giving him 4 full years, not 2…”
Sorry, you have been trumped by the US Constitution… as you might not know…. In fact, Obama does get 4 yrs…. not 2…
However, Obama can do little, as with any president, unless he has the support of the Congress… It’s call “check and balance.” It’s the brilliance of our founding fathers!
People don’t need to wait 4 yrs when they figure out they have cancer after 2 yrs….
VOTE ROSSI - Help stop the end to this liberal madness!
misjustice on October 21 at 4:42 p.m.
spokanecougar; good point, re “Our oversized defense budget and overseas bases didn’t prevent 9/11, did it?”
In fact, it was our military bases in Saudi Arabia that helped incite the attacks on our nation. Additionally, during the reign of Ronnie Raygun, when we used the “freedom fighters” in Afghanistan, to fight our proxy war with the Soviets, we used our dollars and the CIA to train/fund Osama bin Laden. We, essentially, created our future enemy.
spokanecougar on October 21 at 4:43 p.m.
Really hawken? The president serves 4 years? Thanks for pointing that out for me. I thought he was like the house of representatives and was up for re-election every 2 years. Thanks for helping me with that, I am just a misinformed liberal I guess.
If you cannot understand what I was saying….then…well….yeah…I feel sorry for you then cause its not that hard to figure out.
misjustice on October 21 at 4:43 p.m.
Tell DiNO! NO!
Again!
; )
spokanecougar on October 21 at 4:45 p.m.
misjustice, also very well said.
hawken on October 21 at 4:47 p.m.
SpokaneLiberal
You say…
“First, let me point out I am a student of economics and economics, while appearing simple (like you claim it is) is far from simple.”
While I am an MBA in business and economics… my quote above… “The good news is that economics is not all that complicated” … is not mine… but in fact true…
At some point you will hopefully graduate from your self-proclaimed liberal world view and embrace the “not so complicated reality” of economic law.
hawken on October 21 at 4:57 p.m.
If Dino gets elected, which I think he has a good chance to do, that will offer some hope for WA, which is know nationally as a liberal left state….
…but just barely and hopefully changing, based upon the current polls!
More important than whether or not WA is liberal left…. is the future of our nation.
Having said that, the only real poll that counts will take place in November.
We will see then, whether or not the worm has turned in November.
DeCaYeD on October 21 at 4:59 p.m.
Spokanecougar for pres! haha lets all be so open minded our brains fall out! Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hawken on October 21 at 5:04 p.m.
SpokaneLiberal
Just wondering if you have some retort to my 4:34 pm post?
I’m just wondering, that since I took away your “Bash Bush” argument… that you actually have a reasonable liberal left, retort?
hawken on October 21 at 5:13 p.m.
Oh…. misj…. if only we lived in a perfect world based upon liberal left fantasy….
If only…. we could have no hunger, no pain, no war, no poor….
Ahhh… how we all long for the fantasy of the liberal left fantasy….
If only big government was the cure all that the liberal left fantasizes….
“Kumbaya..”
SpokaneLiberal on October 21 at 5:16 p.m.
Forgive me Hawken if I don’t believe you. Economics is not simple, it has simple concepts like self interest, supply and demand, and equilibrium. At it’s core it is simple, but that simplicity breeds enormous complexity. Maybe it has just been to long since you studied economics.
Why is a market preferable to any other system?
“The good news is that economics is not all that complicated” is Peter Schiff who is a non-orthodox economist who worked at Lehman Brothers- and that assertion (not fact) is part of his attempt to extend his influence in light of his failed 2010 presidential bid and not real deep economic insight.
DeCaYeD on October 21 at 5:16 p.m.
Hawken thank you for speaking the truth!
hawken on October 21 at 5:26 p.m.
SpokaneLiberal
here is the simplicity of economic law:
1- Don’t spend more than you make.
2- Don’t borrow more than you can pay back.
3- Supply and demand determine price.
4- The free market will take care all of the above if government stays out of it.
So where is the complexity of economic law?
You ask: Why is a market preferable to any other system?
Answer: The free market has proven to be superior over all government ideologies…. throughout world history!
Thus, the superior, prosperous, Western world… as compared to the rest of the world…. Refute that.
misjustice on October 21 at 5:26 p.m.
Thankfully, we haven’t heard from the Shrub (much) in two years; because the RNC, Rove, and others have told him to STFU. They are counting on us forgetting all the things that the Shrub broke before flying off into the sunset.
Vote NO! on DiNO! AGAIN!
; )
SpokaneLiberal on October 21 at 5:35 p.m.
How has it proven superior?
The western world was built on mixed economies. All major economies of the western world had a substantial portion of their growth due to public/private partnerships. Look at Germany. Look at Japan. Look at Canada. Even look at the US.
You show your lack of understand of economics if you believe it is a government ideology - government ideologies are like totalitarianism, representative republic, democracy, etc. Economic ideologies are free market, mixed economy, socialism, etc.
If you pause for a moment and engage in real dialog instead of spouting whatever you want to “stir the pot” instead of constructive dialog then you are being successful. I am not one of those people. It has been shown time and again on here that I attempt to engage in real discussion. I don’t stick to any talking points and don’t generally attack. I suppose I will give up on this thread since it seems a real discussion will not be forthcoming. Which is sad, for both of us.
hawken on October 21 at 5:36 p.m.
Don’t you all truly appreciate the deep thinking of Misj…?
In light or the serious issues we face as a nation?
What would we do without the thoughtful insights of mIsjustice?
SpokaneLiberal on October 21 at 5:36 p.m.
oh, and Harken not a single one of those are economic laws except supply and demand determine price.
hawken on October 21 at 5:44 p.m.
SpokaneLiberal
Mixed economics to be sure (Western World)….
Why do you suppose that American has been a superpower in free market economics…?
Answer: We have been the leading “free market society” head and shoulders over others….
Only since Obama have we become left of Europe in our economics!
American liberalism is a government ideology…. pure socialism is a government ideology…. European Socialism is a government ideology…. all of which handicap the free market system.
American Capitalism, based upon a free market.. is not a government ideology…
hawken on October 21 at 5:47 p.m.
SpokaneLiberal
As a student of economics…. you inform me…. what are the laws of economics?
SpokaneLiberal on October 21 at 6:08 p.m.
1. Law of Supply
2. Law of Demand
3. Law of one Price
4. Law of Diminishing Returns
5. Law of Wages
6. Law of Rent
7. Law of Capital Goods
8. Law of Inequality
9. Law of Iterated Expectations
10. Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility
11. Law of Bad Money
12. Law of Reflux
13. Engel’s Law of Food Prosperity
There are more, that I can’t recall off the top of my head but that is a good place to start.
hawken on October 21 at 6:08 p.m.
Spokaneliberal….. let me help you here concerning the laws of economics…..
The Natural Laws of Economics
http://freeliberal.com/archives/000438.php
Maybe you can instruct me as to the mistakes(s) I might have made in my concise summary of the law of economics in my 5:26pm post….
After all you are the liberal left, student of economics instructing me on the law of economics… That’s a fair statement… isn’t it?
hawken on October 21 at 6:15 p.m.
Spokaneliberal
Again… refute my concise “law of economics” see below a reprint of my 5:26 pm post… compared to your 6:08 pm post…
here is the simplicity of economic law:
1- Don’t spend more than you make.
2- Don’t borrow more than you can pay back.
3- Supply and demand determine price.
4- The free market will take care all of the above if government stays out of it.
Me thinks you are running in circles in a failed attempt to defend you indefensible, liberal left, world view….
Also… please see my 6:08 posting as well….
hawken on October 21 at 6:19 p.m.
Oh yea…..
“There are more, that I can’t recall off the top of my head but that is a good place to start.”
Off the top of your head??? Do you think we are so gullible?
SpokaneLiberal on October 21 at 6:28 p.m.
None of them support 1 or 2. In fact Wagner’s Law seems to contradict those at the very minimum they are not supported by any law.
Number 4 has some basis in the law of unintended consequences, but it is not always bad and no rational market system assumes freedom from government.
SpokaneLiberal on October 21 at 6:35 p.m.
See there we go again hawken. We were started on an attempt to have a rational conversation about your legitimate posts, but you could not accept me, my knowledge, or my my reasoning - even when the reasoning has basis.
Sometimes what you say has basis. Sometimes what I say has basis, but if we insult eachother and assume the worst about eachother we never accomplish anything. If we want real progress you have to get over the fact I have left wing politics. I don’t care that you have right wing politics. I was attempting to have a conversation about economics that would probably eventually discuss debt theory and the inalienability of human capital.
But I have a life and a wife so I am done with your insults (ad hominem attack - you know that fallacy right?) and bid you good day.
bdr on October 21 at 6:36 p.m.
Well it sounds as if Britain is going the GOP route, they are just weeks away from passing out 1/2 million pink slips to government jobs.
Britain’s deficit load was 12.5% to gdp
Americas deficit load is 9.5% to gdp.
British austerity will either collapse them or set them free.
(I’m ready for more riots) and a pound that drops like a rock.
JBlim on October 21 at 6:37 p.m.
Dr hawken says:
“3- Supply and demand determine price.”
Congratulations, Dr hawken, you got 1 out of 4 correct. Please don’t tell me you PhD is in economics. . .
hawken on October 21 at 6:40 p.m.
Let me help you again Spokaneliberal:
Regarding my #1:
“Don’t spend more than you make.”
The law of economic rationality. Human action is economically rational if one’s preferences are consistent and if one economizes.
Regarding my #2:
“Don’t borrow more than you can pay back.”
. The law of reflux. In competitive free-market banking, there cannot be a permanent over issue of banknotes, since any issued in excess of the quantity demanded will be redeemed.
Keep studying… you are on the right track…. wrong in you previous posts…. but on the right track…
Again, let me genuinely challenge you to re-think your liberal left, world view….
hawken on October 21 at 6:52 p.m.
Jblim…. you remind me of a pesky gnat…. that has to be brushed away from one’s face as an occasional annoyance…. nothing more.
hawken on October 21 at 7:05 p.m.
bdr….
I saw that…. good for the Brits…. they have awoken to the reality that government cannot fix the ills of big government spending…
They are far ahead of us…. no doubt, their pain will be significant…
But their short-lived pain now, will prosper them as a nation,,, their children and grandchildren for generations to come.
At this point, they are much less selfish that are we as a nation.
Hopefully, we will follow the lead of the Brits in this correction very, very soon.
Too bad the Brits had to lead in this hard choice, rather than the so-called, free market Americans.
hawken on October 21 at 7:38 p.m.
SpokaneLiberal
Your promote a liberal left view that will be the demise of our great country… demonstrably…. as evinced throughout history…if allowed to go unchallenged.
I am not looking for an invitation to your home for dinner…. Nor am I concerned that you have been insulted by my retort to your liberal world views.
Our nation is on the verge of grave danger because your liberal left world views which have been embraced by the majority, since the Obama election.
My sole purpose between now and the November elections is to expose the liberal left for what it is….
If you choose not to respond to my 6:40 pm correction of your error as it applies to the law of economics…. so be it… others can read and assess for themselves.
spokanecougar on October 21 at 7:44 p.m.
Hawken, do you work at all or just sit at home posting on here arguing against people who don’t agree with you? Or is your job to sit at home and get paid by the GOP to post their talking points over and over.
bdr on October 21 at 7:50 p.m.
actually hawken Id personally shy away from the British route
it has to many risks toward default and mayhem (much like France is going thru).
American Public is to stupid now to feed themselves if the British solution was duplicated here. We are a nation completely removed from our food chain for roughly 110 years by automation and Oil.
If I were to profess the solution to deficits is just simply to default.
over 90% of our debt is owed to China (China is gambling with its money).
For the good of all….Id just default on China as payback for stealing our propitiatory goods flooding our markets and artificially deflating the yuan. ruining our garment markets rubber market, steel markets and manufacturing.
USA would have immediate deficit reductions suffer a few years of high gas prices and high import prices,
But we have such a large market suppliers will be back in force in 2 years or less.
Its basically a strategic walkaway deficit,much like a walk away mortgage!
If you pay the deficit it’ll be 30-50 year deal…..get it over with!.
johnclarke on October 21 at 7:51 p.m.
spokanecougar - ding ding ding you win :)
Hawken, if Patty Murray wins - you have to promise to drift. If Rossi wins (yeah right) then I will. Deal? Deal.
hawken on October 21 at 7:52 p.m.
SpokaneCougar….
I do not get paid by the GOP… nor am I a financial supporter of the GOP…
The real problem here is that you on the liberal left are not accustomed to return fire, which points out the bankruptcy of your liberal left world view…. It’s that simple….
I am and have been quite self-sufficient for decades… apart from that, nothing else about my personal life is any of your business…. with all due respect.
hawken on October 21 at 7:57 p.m.
bdr… we’ll see how “stupid” the American public is…. maybe you are correct… we’ll see…. I don’t believe that at this point.
If the American public is as “stupid” as you say…. It’s amazing how hunger can be a motivator…
Dazzeetrader11 on October 21 at 8:01 p.m.
I have a short list: How about reversing everything Obama’s done. Look to see if Murray voted for everything he wanted. She did. Let’s simply nuke those things, fire both of them and become solvent like we were in 2005. Simple huh?
spokanecougar on October 21 at 8:10 p.m.
Daisy Minken - solvent in 2005? Really? That statement right there pretty much shows that these tea baggers forgets everything over a year apparently or just like to make up their own history.
Anyone here want to remind Daisy what was about to happen to the economy in 2005 because of the policies the GOP and Cheney/Bush were pushing through?
Shylock13 on October 21 at 8:23 p.m.
From the comments so far, I think partisan political positions (e.g, Spokane Liberal and Hawken) have been getting in the way of facts. First fact, because of the Great Depression a number of federal controls were placed on such financial institutions as banks and insurance companies to prevent such a Depression from happening again. Second fact, the Republican Party was responsible for removing a number of those restraints, which allowed banks and insurance companies to return, pretty much, to the practices which caused the Depression. Third fact, the removal of those restraints directly caused the present financial meltdown. Fourth fact, the Republican Bush administration initiated the first “bail out” legislation. Fifth fact, that legislation began to help the economy. Sixth fact, the Bush administration increased the national debt astronomically by approving legislation without financing it (e.g., Medicare, Part D). Seventh fact, the Obama administration initiated further “bail out” legislation. Eighth fact, that also helped the economy. Ninth fact, the Obama administration also has increased the national debt significantly. Tenth fact, the G.W. Bush administration had eight years to screw up the economy and involve us in two wars (unnecessary, in my opinion) which have drained the national treasury. Eleventh fact, the Obama administration has had less than two years to try to rectify what the Bush administration did in eight. Twelfth fact, that Wall Street, Big Business, Insurance and Pharmaceutical Companies, the very wealthy, etc., are opposed to what the Obama administration has done is very obvious—those special interests have contributed so much “silent” money [where did it come from?] to campaigns to vote for Republican candidates and/or against Democratic candidates, that, the last I looked, the Republican Party was outspending the Democratic Party by about 8-1. Thirteenth fact, all that money dumped on the Republican Party will result in a number of “quid pro quos” for the donors—the removal of the restraints on those interests. Fourteenth fact, wealthy corporations, financial institutions, and the like (those entities who distributed millions of dollars in “bonuses” even when they were receiving “bail out” money) can now spend as much as they like, in ways that can’t be traced, to effect the outcome of elections. Fifteenth fact, those “special interests care only about themselves and do not give a damn about anyone else. Sixteenth fact, both political parties, as well as the special interests that support them (e.g., labor unions and the Democrats) are all personally greedy (have you ever known any Senator or Representative in D.C. who was anything except wealthy?). Seventeenth fact, the politicians from both parties want only to be re-elected, in order to enrich themselves, and will do anything—take money from questionable sources and lie to their constituents, for example—to increase their own wealth. CONCLUSION #1: neither party can be trusted with our country. CONCLUSION #2: two years is not a fair time period upon which to judge either Obama or the Democratic congress. CONCLUSION #3: it is too soon to return control to the political party that got the county in the mess it is in—both economically and militarily. CONCLUSION #4: there is a “clear and present danger” that the anonymous funds being poured into elections will result in “a government of the rich, by the rich, and for the rich.” CONCLUSION #5: the “Buying of America” has already begun.
hawken on October 21 at 8:28 p.m.
Spokanecougar….
You can certainly debate Daisy as to the accuracy of her statement of 2005 solvency….
What on earth justifies your “hasty generalization”, attack on the credibility of the Tea Party, a logical fallacy, …. based upon your challenge that Daisy is incorrect in her statement….?
You are like a liberal, blind man, swinging in the dark, trying to strike a blow to anyone standing nearby.
hawken on October 21 at 8:37 p.m.
Bear….
Your so-called “facts” are mostly an “appeal to belief”….
This line of “reasoning” is fallacious because the fact that many people believe a claim does not, in general, serve as evidence that the claim is true.
Try making your posts and points a bit shorter…
Also, may I suggest that you put some “white space” in between your points…
My head is hurting tying to muddle through your muddle….
I realize you put allot of effort into your post… but please,,,, have some consideration if you want people to read your post!
misjustice on October 21 at 8:40 p.m.
Theodore Bear; hear, hear! Well said.
Vote NO! on DiNO! AGAIN!
; )
misjustice on October 21 at 8:41 p.m.
sqawky says to Mr. Bear, “Try making your posts and points a bit shorter”.
Isn’t that rich?
spokanecougar on October 21 at 8:45 p.m.
Make your posts short….CLASSIC!!!! You know how these conservatives and tea baggers hate reading and learning facts. Have to keep it simple and easy for them to understand.
Dazzeetrader11 on October 21 at 9:15 p.m.
Well…all this is academic…but it was FDR who presided over the results of the great depression…and continued it till the brakes were applied. FDR was indeed a champion of all social programs. He raised interest rates and raised taxes for his programs…and also cut loose on a stimulus of sorts…then the system crashed.
He was a pathetic man who had no idea of economics. none…saw it as a way to “fix” things to buy votes. Dems to the salt lick…predictable with Obama who never had a non government sponsored job. I hope you DO know he was Harvard Law Review because nobody else wanted that accursed job. So even in his young years, he was a second stringer. Ever see his grades?
SO things stabilized with Eisenhower. Then came JFK who cut taxes to stimulate the economy ( a rare feat by a Dem). Then comes Dem JBJ who implemented Medicare AND following on the heels of the SS idea…continued those same rograms….and it’s been down hill ever since.
Fact is, if the US could return to the structure of 2005 and stop right there, all would be well. Bush didn’t stop but pent like a Democrat…huge debt..now tripled by Obama. And guess what, America has nothing to show for the rookie’s plans.
The best part?: it’s over in 12 days. As for Obama, he’s over in 12 days since his playmates will largely be gone. His time is over in 24 months…and, if there’s anything left , we can get back to business. You see all you lil libs…it’s over for you. Socialism is done. Not another president like this will show up for probably another 30 years. It’s over. get braced…all your freebies are about to be concluded and then many of you will be required to actually get a job, pay taxes and drink wine to forget how sociaism might have been. Obama is the worst pcik America could have made. He lucked into an antiBush sentiment fuelded by the media and paif for by his classmates on Wall St. Banks are better financed than ever…only thing is…Obama the Dumb….forgot ( did he?) the banks would lock up our money. …and starve you fools into submission.
Remember in Novemeber…and you’ll rejoice in the new conservatism annointed by right minded people for the next generation. You might even have to get a job and work! New thought for you….I know…but it’s the thought that counts little dearies:) lol
Now put down the drugs and wine..and go to the nearest track first thing in the morning..get in shape…and begin applying early for a job. We might even have some available when Dems and Obama are gone. 10% unemployment is such a bad result…when you want to be re-elected.
hawken on October 21 at 9:30 p.m.
I do believe that Daisy is correct, that like in the Carter days….. American liberalism is gasping for it’s last breath, for the next several decades…. I guess we’ll see in the next 25 months or so….
History does repeat itself… sometimes for the best, other times not.
Dazzeetrader11 on October 21 at 9:40 p.m.
Read em and weep kids…huge loss in the last quarter: Biggest yet. Just released… Tah tah…
http://www.gallup.com/poll/143921/Obama-Approval-Rating-New-Low-Recent-Quarter.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=morelink&utm_term=Politics%20-%20Presidential%20Job%20Approva
jddavis on October 21 at 10:15 p.m.
Sure would be nice to read an intelligent retort to Hawken…but then again, I still chuckle everytime Spokanecougar says “teabagger.” Don’t know if that is complement or an insult from him…either way, still funny!
misjustice on October 21 at 10:58 p.m.
Jd; I thought that Mr. Bear did a great job of responding to sqawky.
Most of us have given up on the sqawkster and try not to encourage him, too much, that is. Largely, it’s a waste of precious life energy.
jddavis on October 21 at 11:25 p.m.
T Bear’s repsonse contains some facts, some incomplete facts, and opinion. As you know MisJ, I am a fan of intellectual fact-based conversation/debate. For instance, stating that the Bush Administration had 8 years to “screw up the economy” when he didn’t have Republicans as the majority in either house since 2006; keeping in mind the President doesn’t spend a dime without Congress’ approval.
What I get as the bottom-line from T Bear is that both parties have their hand in this economic mess…I certainly agree with that!
As far as Hawken, I am pleasently surprised that he and I both hold MBAs; although mine is Finance (corporate) focused
Dazzeetrader11 on October 22 at 12:42 a.m.
bdr..not so fast. UK is broke from the liberal spending. Sorry bud…the UK doesn’t have the money for further government jobs nor handouts.. See..this is what happens whe “other peoples money” runs out due to the greed of the non working folks, no productive folks and, of course the ever present unions.
When the trough runs dry because those who fill it run out of pig swill, the pigs have to go!..lol..500,000 of em in the UK.
No swill you can’t pay cash for. No credit allowed. Go to school people..get a good job in a market people like.
Look at UK. Look at Spain..look at Greece and now have a gander at France. Oh wahhhh………they’re getting what they asked for..just not what they want. And so it goes in life…
Vote conservative or expect the same. No on 1098, no on Marr, no on Murray, no on Obama and, of course…no on spending and high taxes. And…big NO on Obamacare. Sorry…well’s run dry.
JBlim on October 22 at 7:04 a.m.
The UK, like the US, is suffering from the disastrous misadventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. Remember those two needless wars started by GOP wonder child, George W Bush? Do you seriously think we can send trillions down a rat hole and not suffer any consequences? You “conservatives” are missing the big picture, as usual.
bdr on October 22 at 9:02 a.m.
The major problem with global free trade ,there’s to many of them producing FOR ONLY US! America markets are the number 1 destination. Our federal reserve dam has busted and the reservoir is nearly dry. Its time to default on China ((who is gambling with their money))
12 trillion disappears off our books overnight.!
Following the tea party damages Americans twice we have lost all of our jobs to china AND the tea party suggest to pay it all back to CHINA. ((who have damaged us for decades))
CHINA is more suited to suffer financial down turns than America They still have chickens in their back yards and local food markets with-in walking distance. Their transportation system is largely bikes @ 140million of them.
They have only been removed from 3rd world status for about 20 years. ((they all still know how to grow food))
110 years of American laws have removed us from our food and transportation ability.
(we are less suited to suffer fiscal suffrage than China)
JBlim on October 22 at 7:24 p.m.
Just an observation: China toils in sweatshops for us, makes our computers and TV’s and so on and we send them pieces of paper.