Spokane7
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September 3, 2010 in City
Deputy says he saw pastor approaching with gun
Spokane County Sheriff’s Deputy Brian Hirzel told investigators Friday that he saw Pastor Wayne Scott Creach approaching his unmarked patrol car from a distance of about 30 feet with a gun in his hand before they had a verbal confrontation.
Hirzel said in a videotaped interview that he fired one shot that killed Creach on Aug. 25, according to a news release sent Friday by Spokane Police spokeswoman Officer Jennifer DeRuwe.
“According to Officer Hirzel’s statement and evidence collected at the scene, ultimately there was a close encounter between the officer and Mr. Creach near the officer’s car,” the release said. “Officer Hirzel stated there was a verbal exchange between himself and Mr. Creach prior to the single gunshot being fired. Officer Hirzel’s statement and the evidence confirms only one shot was fired.”
The news release offered no explanation of what was said or by whom, or why Hirzel felt the need to pull the trigger, killing the 74-year-old pastor in the parking lot of his nursery business at 14208 E. 4th Ave. in Spokane Valley.
Creach’s daughter, Serena Creach Leonard, said she read the statement released Friday and it left the family with many unanswered questions.
“We have no more answers from that press release really than we had the day after,” Leonard said. “We still feel badly for Deputy Hirzel, but we need the sheriff’s department to communicate to us as a family to let us know what happened that night. Whatever it is, we want the truth.”
The interview Friday came after law enforcement officials allowed Hirzel to travel to Montana and Las Vegas for a vacation prior to giving the voluntary statement. Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich said Thursday that he didn’t cancel that time off for fear it could taint the investigation by making it appear that he forced Hirzel to give the statement.
DeRuwe said Hirzel, who works for the Spokane County Sheriff’s Office but was assigned to work for the Spokane Valley Police Department, told investigators that he drove to the Plant Farm based on a request made earlier in the day by a neighbor who wanted a prowl check.
“Hirzel stated he chose the large parking lot of the Plant Farm because it allowed him to conduct the prowl check safely, and also for its proximity to the address where the prowl check was first requested,” the release said. “Hirzel also stated that he saw Mr. Creach approaching his vehicle from a distance of approximately 30 (feet) and that Mr. Creach had a firearm in his hand.”
But Leonard said the family questions what DeRuwe described as a “verbal exchange” between Scott Creach and Hirzel.
“Based on the information we have been given, which is virtually none, my mother heard one voice. It was surprise and fear and it was my Dad,” Leonard said. “It wasn’t an interaction.”
DeRuwe, in the news release, said the investigation will continue. The Spokane Police department and the Washington State Patrol are investigating the incident under previously agreed-to protocols covering officer-involved shootings. She said investigators, supervisors and prosecutors will meet on Tuesday to decide whether more information can be released that “will not jeopardize the investigation. Prior to release of information to the public, the family of Mr. Creach will be briefed by investigators.”
Leonard said the family would welcome more information but they have concerns about the “credibility” of information coming from the sheriff’s office.
“We have a great concern about a misdirection of facts regarding Deputy Hirzel,” she said.
Investigators initially told the family, for example, that Hirzel would be interviewed after 48 hours, she said. They were then told the interview would take place after 72 hours. Eventually, the family learned that Hirzel had been allowed to go on vacation. By next Tuesday, it will have been 13 days since her father was shot on his own property, Leonard said.
“The credibility of anything the sheriff’s department has to say to us at this point is in question,” Leonard said. “We are not only grief-stricken but distraught over the treatment we have received at the hands of the sheriff’s department.”
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westerly on September 03 at 6:34 p.m.
Looks like a white wash..oh ya, memory improves weeks after the incident..details get clearer,ya, rehearse the story for two weeks and story looks good…BS!
MaoTenDoo on September 03 at 6:37 p.m.
Let the cover-up begin.
I hope the people of Spokane Co. wake up and vote this bum of a Sheriff out of office in November.
Willie0426 on September 03 at 6:42 p.m.
Let’s see: Shonto Pete (drunk, off duty policeman shoots Indian), Otto Zehm (how can anyone dispute the tape, mentally handicapped man tasered to death), and a pastor shot and killed. Wow our police force has done some excellent work covering things up recently and isn’t it great to know that the Chief of Police is right there solidly behind his police felons (oops sorry I meant fellows).
monkeyman on September 03 at 6:43 p.m.
Anybody taking bets on the outcome of the investigation? Where can I put some money…
misjustice on September 03 at 6:45 p.m.
Deputy says he saw a purple elephant with an AK-47 hovering above the greenhouses.
My statement is just as credible as anything that will come from this “interview”. Mr. Viva Las Vegas has had 9 days to concoct his “story” of how things went down; the only other witness is DEAD.
zelda on September 03 at 6:54 p.m.
Well, so much for my speculative theory about the cop being surprised from behind. I wonder if the officer had started his vacation early.
spokanecougar on September 03 at 6:56 p.m.
This sheriffs deputy should be sitting in jail for murder. The more information that comes out it becomes more obvious that this sheriff that shot Creach should at the very least be sitting in jail on possible murder charges, not out on vacation and talking to investigators whenever he wants to. There is no way he should have shot to kill this man, he passed over his taser and decided to shot this 74 year old man in the chest. Aren’t officers suppose to be trained to shot in non-leathal ways, like shooting him in the arm, the leg? Of course officers are also not suppose to be corrupt idiots who think they are above the law also, so I guess that answers my question.
It is also becoming more and more obvious that Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich is covering this up as much as he can so this shot first, ask questions later corrupt deputies and department don’t ruin his chances of being re-elected in November. DO NOT VOTE FOR THIS MAN!!!
misjustice on September 03 at 7:08 p.m.
@spokanecougar; I think that cops are trained to shoot to kill, not to injure. I’m sure that Ron the Cop could address this more fully but it is my understanding that shoot to injure is not police protocol ( I’m not implying that it should be).
PlanB on September 03 at 7:10 p.m.
So Hirzel’s own account proves he wasn’t surprised. Creach had to have known he was a deputy. Creach had no round chambered which proves he had no immediate intention of firing.
This is certainly worse than I thought. I was holding out hope for the ‘surprise’ hypothesis.
misjustice on September 03 at 7:20 p.m.
Aren’t officers suppose to be trained to shot in non-leathal ways, like shooting him in the arm, the leg?
Why would they do that? So to just tick them off so they can get up & come after the officer to kill him? No. Officers are taught to shoot the largest part of the body. Do you really think any other person holding a gun would shoot the officer in an arm or leg? No, I think not.
Where are the State & City police that are supposed to be investigating this? Ozzie shouldn’t be answering any questions & let those that are in charge of the investigation do the talking.
jjerkison on September 03 at 7:21 p.m.
Looks like the shooter has more rights the the 74 year old preacher. Where are the rights to the family? Community?
Ron_the_Cop on September 03 at 7:25 p.m.
Spokanecougar and misjustice,
Generally officers train to shoot at center mass. The idea of shooting in the arm is a figment of TV cop shows. Trust me firing a handgun under a combat situation it’s hard enough to hit the target let alone aim for a thin object like an arm. Sorry folks this is the reality.
lucs on September 03 at 7:26 p.m.
Hirzel was in position for 2 minutes, made the code 6 call, and 10 seconds later called for medics. This doesn’t make sense…it’s in double-time….fast forward. 2 minutes and 10 seconds total.
He saw Creach from 30 feet, so he had to know he was the property owner and should’ve understood why he had a pistol. A simple request / command to drop the weapon was all that was called for. It’s called negotiation. This trigger happy thug has 18 years experience…wow.
I’ll bet he was shining one of those 5 million candle power lights in Creaches face, blinding him. Creach stumbled about….Hirzel blasted him. Given any chance at all to comply, I am positive Creach would’ve done so.
WHY wasn’t he given that chance?
Ron_the_Cop on September 03 at 7:27 p.m.
Gamma good points. And yes where is Anne?
lucs on September 03 at 7:33 p.m.
@ron
No, the question that needs to be asked is: why was it necessary to shoot this man at all.
Oh, I forgot…..it is a matter of milliseconds and the option of negotiating is ridiculous. Anyone approaching a cop with anything resembling a weapon deserves to die. Any more cliches?
bszottlinger on September 03 at 7:34 p.m.
Ron_the_Cop:
Ron…Ron…Ron… when are you going to learn Anne isn’t accountable to you, or me, or the City Council, or her troops, or the citizens of Spokane, she only has one string to pull.
Brad
lewis8457 on September 03 at 7:35 p.m.
Yes I understand the theory of hitting the mass area of the body but what if your gunning down a old man, that is less then 10 feet away, do our cops really lack the ability to hit a arm or leg at that distance, and if they do maybe they should be using slingshots.
misjustice on September 03 at 7:40 p.m.
“…evidence confirms only one shot was fired.”
Contradicts Ozzie’s statement of “shots fired.”
v1grwil on September 03 at 7:41 p.m.
I practice shooting over at the Spokane Indoor range. Same place as the cops practice (plus their own firing range) The range has 25 and 50 foot markings. You get really good at hitting the target at short ranges, say 30 feet. So our big brave killer cop had a bead drawn on Scott Creach, in the dark, his eyes were used to the dark, Scott just got outside, his Glock(most likely his service weapon) was in his hands and ready to fire(easy to fire weapon and very accurate).
You can take these facts so far and turn it into a nice hitman story. “The shooter was waiting in the dark. His car was dark no one around. No one would suspect he was behind and away from the car. He knew his target wouldn’t see him coming. When the old man walked outside he had the street light behind him. The shooter heard him before he saw him enter the light, tonight he would get his mark”
Ron_the_Cop on September 03 at 7:43 p.m.
Brad are you pulling my chain:-)
She gets paid the big bucks. SPD is the lead agency in this investigation. See my comments in the other thread:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/sep/03/pastor-buried-in-oklahoma/?comments#c187507
Zelda was right in the other thread. We probably won’t know much more until next week since this is a long holiday weekend. I think we need to get our priorities straight.
Why is it that Sheriff Knezovich has been doing all the face time for the media?
If I were Mayor after her attempts to leave our little berg and not realizing she should have asked Asst Chief Nicks to retire or be fired, I would have fired her.
misjustice on September 03 at 7:43 p.m.
Does the shots fired from a gun of a 74 year old hurt any less than that of a 15 year old? Just don’t understand the age difference thing????
lewis8457 on September 03 at 7:44 p.m.
Ron the cop and Brad do the cops now days really care about the people they protect? I mean do they really truly understand our lives are all we really have?
It seems that we are all expendable at any turn in the road of life. Like ants under feet of a child in play. Are our lives less valuable then theirs and if that is so am I wrong in saying I will no longer pay their wages and buy their gear. That is the only weapon we really have?
Where have we come as a society where our laws prevent us from hurting ourselves and it is illegal to kill yourself but a cop can do it for you with no consequences for him? How is that right? And how have we come to this place, and anyway we can REALLY turn it around?
bszottlinger on September 03 at 7:45 p.m.
I was kidding! The only string she has to pull is the Mayor’s.
Shylock13 on September 03 at 7:45 p.m.
Yet another “whitewash”! Apparently the law enforcement agencies in the area believe they are beyond any accountability. Most officers are honest, brave, and decent, and we need them. But some appear not to be. Why are they so protected? Do those in command, the Chief and the Sheriff, not understand that the public has lost confidence in both city and county law enforcement? Or don’t they care? This case is yet another argument for a civilian review board with real power to investigate incidents like Otto Zehm, Shonto Pete, and Pastor Creach. Maybe it is time for a ballot initiative to create such a board!!
steveeugster on September 03 at 7:50 p.m.
The officer has had a week to see what is being said about the shooting. He has had a week to prepare his testimony. He has had week to find out from press reports whether or not there were any witnesses to what transpired.
How can anyone say this investigation is not “botched”? Even if the officer’s story is true, we will never know. No one will be to question it. We will never know the truth.
The sheriff must have known of the impact of delay and how it could help the person who is in the center of the storm (his deputy). The delay, of necessity, would benefit the person who is going to testify — to have a week’s worth of public disclosure and comment without any disclosure by him is obviously valuable to him. All he had to do was wait and see what unfolds. Then tell a story. One would have to be terribly naive, credulous, to have any confidence in what the deputy said.
If the sheriff thinks this is good police work he should not be re-elected. Indeed, he should, perhaps, be recalled.
lewis8457 on September 03 at 7:50 p.m.
Grammas put your glasses on and stop drinking so much wine one shot fired since Creach got a bullet in the chest that means it wasn’t his gun that fired the ONE SHOT! They do not make boomerang bullets they are counter productive.
JBlim on September 03 at 7:53 p.m.
“Spokane County Sheriff’s Deputy Brian Hirzel told investigators Friday that he saw Pastor Wayne Scott Creach approaching his unmarked patrol car from a distance of about 30 feet with a gun in his hand before they had a verbal confrontation…”
Hmmm, apparently the gun wasn’t pointed at him or Hirzel would have said so . . is this all Hirzel said?
zelda on September 03 at 7:54 p.m.
Can’t help but think that the Guild and the Sheriff’s Association, in the name of the 100%, spend all their time protecting the 5% that should be weeded out.
Next set of questions: Did Mr. Creach ordinarily wear a hearing aid? Did he usually wear glasses? Were either or both of these found on his body?
Those surely will be questions the deputy’s defense will want to know. And then they’ll probably go with an “ol’ codger with dementia” scenario.
And BTW, Ron, & Misjustice, I agree. Police aren’t trained to wing or knee-cap a person who presents a threat. The objective is to stop them in their tracks.
lucs on September 03 at 7:56 p.m.
@gramma
Let’s say I believe you. Here’s a scenario for you…the law abiding, cop apologist on the internet.
Some day you will be driving along, obeying all the traffic rules, you car will get caught up in some of these ruts caused by the heavy semi trucks in the summer. A zealous cop following you concludes that because you are weaving, you must be driving while impaired and pulls you over.
Now comes the fun part, unbeknownst to you, one of your darling little grand kids had left one of his realistic looking toy pistols between the front seats. Cops sees that and your hand reaching for something in that general area…..goodbye gramma.
Now you are the subject of the other cop apologists saying you should’ve known what was in your car.
Ron_the_Cop on September 03 at 7:57 p.m.
Lewis,
I would hope so and where I’m from they do. Of course there is always dark humor to preserves one’s sanity ala the same as Docs in ERs but many are trying to do the right thing. Sometimes there are bad outcomes that come from the best intentions. Cops are not perfect. My issues have been with SPD police management.
And Theodore J. Bear I would hope that Sheriff Knezovich and Chief Kirkpatrick have gotten that message. See my posts in the other thread re immediate transparency is critical in these situations. The PIOs should be pushing info that can be released without jeopardizing the investigation.
As I said in the other thread re the tactical interview that was just disclosed today:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/sep/02/vacation-stalls-interview/?c=187437&comments=1#c187437
… Why this wasn’t revealed earlier or SCSO PIO Sgt. Dave Reagan or SPD’s PIO hadn’t made that clear is a good question. They both should be stuck to the media reporters like glue. The public needs to hear frequently from their top law enforcement officials during the first few days after these incidents. Seems as though Sheriff Knezovich by default has been put in the position of defending the action of his officer.
misjustice on September 03 at 7:59 p.m.
Lewis asked an important question, which perhaps Ron can answer (given his past experience as a Leo), do cops care about US? Or are we all viewed as potential perpetrators that simply have not been arrested yet?
misjustice on September 03 at 7:59 p.m.
I think lucs watches too much tv.
BTW, my grandkids are too olds for toy guns.
Scoutster on September 03 at 8:01 p.m.
Things seem to happen in ways we can’t control or imagine. For years the police in this community (SPD and SCSO) have been seen by a growing minority as, at best, well meaning but incompetent children with badges and guns and at worst conspiratorial thugs. (I lean more to incompetent than criminal.)
Lots of people just wouldn’t believe such nonsense. It didn’t seem possible such ugliness would live here.
Now we have this pillar of the community family questioning the credibility of these sworn public servants.
This isn’t a gang of meth heads looking for a rich settlement.
This is an established, God fearin’, gun totin’, law abidin’ family asking questions and getting squat. From those who are meant to protect and to serve.
The police community’s natural constituency. And they are mad as hell.
It’s never gonna be the same.
misjustice on September 03 at 8:02 p.m.
Our posts crossed, thanks for the answer…
lewis8457 on September 03 at 8:11 p.m.
That is where we are headed folks jack booted storm troopers patrolling our streets. They will be able to do anything they want, want an example watch a 1942 Nazi documentary some time. No one will call them; justice will be dealt in alleys. The storm troopers them selves will be in constant danger even though they own the law and carry the only weapons allowed. (if your seen on your own property you are gunned down, sounds to me weapons are only for the underwear drawer) Its coming wait for it…….it is here now!
bsdetector on September 03 at 8:28 p.m.
Absolutely amazing how 38 people can pass judgement with only a quarter of the information. Go to the Spokesman for ‘info’ and ‘inform yourselves’ and you all have the answers, so it seems. I don’t care if the man was a preacher, he had a gun, cops are trained to use lethal force if confronted with an armed individual. Having said that, I don’t have all the info, so I’ll keep an open mind as to what happened. There are certainly enough of you out there to pass judgement for the rest of us……
Ron_the_Cop on September 03 at 8:32 p.m.
Scoutster,
BINGO - Hello!!!
Perhaps you’ll now understand why I was so torked by the LACK of a complete and thorough criminal investigation into the death of Jo Savage. Otto Zehm was one thing, Shonto Pete another but the death of Savage and subsequent cover up is much more insidious in nature.
I hope it’s only a matter of mere incompetence and not as I fear a symptom of the level of political corruption in this town. The leaders in this town seem incapable because of their co-option/corruption of affecting the change that is necessary in the SPD command staff. I hold them more responsible than the officers they command. Further our leaders have caved to the whims/demands of the Guild and walk in fear of the City Attorney’s Office. Look there needs to be a balance. And this is coming from a two-term police union president!
The Guild is about to take a substantial hit with layoffs because of the illegal actions of City leaders that have created an ongoing structural deficit of $2M per year that no one wants to talk about. And there is of course the budget wizard, Mr. Cooley, who can conceal surplus money off budget. The Guild would do well to hire its own auditors to look at City finances and put the squeeze on Cooley to spill his guts rather than taking the layoff hits that will definitely affect public safety.
Has anyone been listening? I’ve been trying to hold Chief Kirkpatrick, Sheriff Knezovich, Co Prosecutor Tucker, AG McKenna and Gov. Gregoire accountable for failing to recognize the death of Savage as a first-degree manslaughter?
Read my RICO report:
http://tinyurl.com/ykemtqr
and table of evidence:
http://tinyurl.com/ybgkjqe
misjustice on September 03 at 8:34 p.m.
@bs; the “blogs” is where many of us go to have conversation; it is part of the new Public Square. It is natural for people to speculate and vent when conversing, if it disturbs you then just read the article and skip the comments section; problem solved!
Can’t help but notice that you offered your opinion just prior to bashing the rest of us, for doing bascially the same thing that you did… just sayin’.
lewis8457 on September 03 at 8:42 p.m.
BS we only know what we know from past circumstances. They kill, lie and get away with it. Now they drag their feet so i am to assume everything is in the up and up? Sorry cant do that i can only assume based on past experiences.
I still haven’t seen any justice for Otto and honestly don’t think i ever will. so don’t expect me to favor the cops side when i wait for justice that will never come.
A few weeks ago i saw a counselor for job training and in talking I told her i knew Otto well she did too, and she said i cant believe they didn’t know he was disabled you could see it from 2 blocks away, and i said yes maybe Karl saw it too and figured easy pickings.
lewis8457 on September 03 at 8:46 p.m.
Thank you Ron I was hoping you would say that. I wish there was a way we could celebrate the good officers we do have with out also letting the liars and murders join in on the celebration. Maybe we could make Jesus the door guy. And Satan the bouncer.
empyrius on September 03 at 8:53 p.m.
Cops investigating the cops, unions, lawyers, and a city council worried about what is best for business, but in no way to stand athwart of the sheriffs dept. that protects their rural properties . . .
We need a fact-finding commission of miserably impoverished homeless brothers and sisters who have no desire whatsoever for money and power for justice to ever be possible!
But of course all of their soon to be dead bodies would be filling the alleyways . . .
MaoTenDoo on September 03 at 8:57 p.m.
Ozzie is running for reelection unopposed, so I’ll be writing “Alan Creach” on the ballot.
zelda on September 03 at 8:57 p.m.
If there has been anything positive coming out of the housing bubble it’s that the Spokane area grew in population — the good with the bad — and is no longer as inbred as it was. There are people who network in different circles, aren’t beholden to the old power elite and are raising questions about how things are done. And the Internet has demolished communication barriers that used to exist.
I feel like Creach’s death has caused a seismic shift in the power structure and as Scoutster said, things aren’t gonna be the same.
We have to acknowledge the “paradox of the heap.” In other words, is the point when the accumulation of sand grains become a heap? Is this the time when the public finally says, “I see a pattern I can no longer ignore”?
I don’t want to get us off into a tangent that will get us yanked or banished and I am a firm believer in never attributing to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence. However, incompetence or corruption need to be rectified immediately.
Ron_the_Cop on September 03 at 9:04 p.m.
LOL Empyrius
Perhaps a federal prosecutor with some cahones with a federal grand jury to hang some hides on the wall.
Someone in the US Attorney’s Office has gotten their nose under the tent in the Otto Zehm case perhaps they’ll go higher up the food chain. Ofc. Thompson could be tossed as the scapegoat to save others. Personally I wouldn’t cut Asst. Chief Nicks any slack for his testimony in the Thompson case. I would also go after the City Attorney’s Office for their tampering with this case.
terrymr on September 03 at 9:06 p.m.
I don’t see how the trespassing man can claim self defense here.
oink on September 03 at 9:08 p.m.
Has anyone ever had a plesant or helpful encounter with any local law enforcement person if they did not request the cops assistance???? Or unless they knew they (the cops) were being recorded on camera ?
Some of us have been pulled over for some reason or another, but have you ever heard them say …good morning sir / miss / ma’am / ms.. how are you doing today..do you know why I stopped you?
Back in the day you did, now they make sure you see them un hook the catch on their holster put thier hand on their gun then shine a light in you eyes and tell you to keep you hands on the wheel. But then say let me see your licence / registration and proof of insurance.
If you go for you wallet to get you licence …you could get shot.. if you go for the glove box to get your registration …you could get shot.
They did not teach that in drivers ed or in church.
bszottlinger on September 03 at 9:13 p.m.
Counselor Eugster:
I am just wonder if I missed some press reports because there are a lot of things I sure don’t know. Here are just a few examples.
1. Contact, close, or far distance wound
2. Blow back on officers gun
3. Blood spatter on officers clothing and surrounding areas
4. Blood Spatter on victim and location of splattering
5. Finger prints on either gun and location of prints
6. Victims strong and weak carry hand
7. Officers strong and weak carry hand
8. Clothing on either party scuffle damaged
9. Scuffle injuries on either party
10. Blood Splattering on officers vehicle
11. Shot trajectory
12. Was the bullet recovered and where
13. Ambient lighting
14. Witnesses five sense distance
15. Trace material transfer
16. etc.
Were they in a press report somewhere?
Brad szottlinger
Scoutster on September 03 at 9:13 p.m.
Am I the only one who finds it creepy that bsdetector can tell us how many people have commented on this story?
Ron_the_Cop on September 03 at 9:22 p.m.
Zelda,
Absolutely BRILLIANT!
The advent of the new alternative media/social networking will be the undoing of the old guard/power elite in this town which up to now has been able to control what goes for news. No longer! Let’s see how long this post lasts:-)
Perhaps as you suggest this case will be the catalyst that starts people to start to ask questions which is healthy. I don’t want to jump to conclusions re the outcome of this case but I do know PR end of this in light of previous transparency issues could have been better handled.
Yes Scoutster I saw your previous post along the same lines:-)
I even suggested to the Sheriff that the PIOs could push info in these threads to dispel rumors and incorrect information. Dan of Avista whether you agree what he says or not recognizes the importance of these threads to push the company line.
misjustice on September 03 at 9:25 p.m.
@ scoutster; No, you are not the only one.
zelda on September 03 at 9:27 p.m.
Marlene Feist from the city has weighed in on occasion, but it seems like this matter is such a legal minefield, no law enforcement PIO would touch it with a digital 10-foot pole. We’ll see…
misjustice on September 03 at 9:27 p.m.
Oh, please, no! Ron, it’s sickening enough when Dan the Avista Man comes onto the threads, I can not stomach the idea of cops monitoring/commenting in our forum. Please, dear imaginary sky fairies, NO!!!!!!!!!!
mikewsu on September 03 at 9:39 p.m.
Vegas, baby, Vegas!
Ron_the_Cop on September 03 at 9:39 p.m.
Misjustice,
Hey you could tar and feather them if they try to sling BS here. They’d get eaten alive. Perhaps if they understood and get hit with the serious concerns that WE THE PEOPLE whom they serve have, they would become more forthright and transparent. Could be an interesting encounter:-)
Look the Israeli IDF had links to video up on twitter and facebook when the flotilla thing went south re real terrorists who were on the ship ready to ambush the special forces troops as they boarded the ship. This was in advance of the propaganda ready to roll from the other side.
bszottlinger on September 03 at 9:40 p.m.
Justy:
Come on….you know the cops, the chief, the mayor, the sheriff, and even Betsy monitor these things. Along with a lot of paramours I would suspect.
bszottlinger on September 03 at 9:58 p.m.
Misjustice:
On the other thread.
I hope you realize that at 7:44 PM you said; “Is it some kinky sex thing?”
Then at 8:06 PM “BRAD? Where are you when I need you?”
I am flattered girl but I’m a crippled-up old man.
Brad
v1grwil on September 03 at 10:00 p.m.
Oh yea fellow ciizens, what do you think the detective who heads the sheriffs association was thinking when he told hirzel today not to read these comments, et al. Would not want to clutter his memories!
Bee509 on September 03 at 10:01 p.m.
Scoutster - Story | Comments (58)
It’s at the top of the page. However at the time of his posting there were only 36 comments (unless comments were that had been removed). Do you think he was actually counting the number of unique individuals commenting on all related stories, or just this thread? It’s a conspiracy!
zelda on September 03 at 10:03 p.m.
Misjustice — Don’t diss Dan@Avista. They’ll come and getcha, believe me!
Pilewort54 on September 03 at 10:05 p.m.
I’m sure glad you guys have only one vote each.
This is the perfect storm for anarchists. He said, she said. There’s nothing more. Your opinions only point to your own prejudices.
liarsinnews on September 03 at 10:11 p.m.
Its obvious who does not or who has a hand gun by reading the posted comments. Shoot em in the arm, shoot em in the leg. Really. Some of us on occasion travel to Freya avenue shooting range and know their limitations. Ask, dirty Harry. I do know however, when a person shoots a hand gun for the first time or the 100th time, depending on the distance, its not as easy as one would think to hit the target let alone arm or leg. If a person is shooting at another person, you aim to stop whoever, and fire a second shot for good measure. Heavens, I hope I`m never in that position.
carolynl on September 03 at 10:14 p.m.
OK, folks. Time to shut this thread down for the night. Don’t want it getting out of hand in the wee hours.
lewis8457 on September 03 at 10:32 p.m.
I miss JimF and Dan Torok they were always willing to throw fuel on the fire. Jim was a bit more polished then Dan. Dan would say things like “just because we kill you in a arrest doesn’t mean you weren’t quilty”. I know Jim retired but Dan is still on the force pulling his 100 grand. Dan has killed 3 citizens that i know of and of course that didn’t mean they weren’t quilty. Hold on…I am Ok now thought i was going to get sick there for a moment
the sad fact is if the SPD came on these threads to try and steer them they would steer them towards lies just like they already did reporting there were shots fired. when in reality there was only one shot fired. Or the idea that Creach was pointing his gun at the cop, i have seen that on many posts and the cop himself said Creach had a weapon in his hand but it was not reported it was pointed at him. Another lie to try and steer us into believing it was Creachs fault.
honestly i don’t believe anything the cops say anymore rather it is in these threads or in the paper or face to face. They have their own agenda and protecting me isn’t one of them.
eagleproducer on September 04 at 10:24 a.m.
zelda typed: “Can’t help but think that the Guild and the Sheriff’s Association, in the name of the 100%, spend all their time protecting the 5% that should be weeded out.”
If what you stated is truthful, then they all need to go. Covering up their wrongdoing is just as bad as the wrongdoing. People need to quit using the mantra of “it only takes a few bad appples..” as an excuse for not holding police accountable for their actions. If the rest are standing by the sidelines while the 5% sully their profession they are just as culpable for the misdeeds of their brethren.
I disagree that shooting a sidearm with accuracy after receiving proper training, under any circumstances, is extremely difficult.
carolyn lamberson: I don’t understand the justification for closing threads related to the Creach shooting each night. Are you regularly removing posts that we don’t see? While public discussion of this event has been voluminous and at times extremely spirited (on both sides, if “sides” should be used in this case because I though the cops were on our side) I haven’t seen ANY posts that violate your forum standards and community guidelines.
bszottlinger on September 04 at 11:20 a.m.
I will be interested to see exactly what type of interview was conducted with Officer Hirzel.
If the statement was a Mirandized statement that pretty much speaks for itself. If as in the Thompson statement the officer was not Mirandize and this is a matter of local practice or a part of the protocol that also would be nice to know. As the statement given by Hirzel was obviously an interrogation that prong of Miranda requirements was met. If the Hirzel statement was not a Mirandized statement in order to use the statement in a subsequent criminal case it would be necessary to CLEARLY DEMONSTRATE that Hirzel was NOT in custody and was FREE TO LEAVE AT ANY TIME. If the statement was not a Mirandized statement and the intention or protocol from day one was to obtain that type of statement from Hirzel. The Sheriff was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT IN ALLOWING THE OFFICER TO GO ON VACATION.
To obtain body fluids immediately after the shooting from Officer Hirzel the investigators would have had to obtain one of two things CONSENT or a SEARCH WARRANT.
The officer involved protocol is a public document and should be made public so citizens can understand and evaluate the steps that are supposed to be taken during officer involved incidents. In my opinion a Protocol should specifically document such things as who has the duty and responsibility to inform and interact with the victim family. Who has the duty and responsibility to inform and interact with the press. The methods, consistent with bargaining agreements, that will be utilized in taking officer statements and at which point in the process they will be taken. The specific role of the prosecuting authority. The method utilized to expedite forensic examination etc. etc. I would be very curious as to how detailed this “Protocol” actually is and whether it has been followed.
Brad Szottlinger
lewis8457 on September 04 at 11:42 a.m.
Brad any ideas on how we can get someone else on the ballot to run against Ozzie at this time he is the only one on the ballot.
bszottlinger on September 04 at 12:09 p.m.
It’s a little late Lewis. But how about waiting and seeing what happens here. I know it stinks now, but I if it turns out the cops did almost everything right unlike Zehm it would be hard to blame anyone but the shooter.
Brad
Ed Byrnes on September 04 at 12:58 p.m.
It is obvious that local law enforcement, through their own ongoing abuse of us citizens, have lost their credibility with us. The way to earn back this credibility is to wholeheartedly open themselves to direct citizen review of any and all uses of lethal force by SPD and SCS officers and deputies. Anything less confirms that they are interested in protecting themselves and each other rather than us citizens.
Some object to my comparison of our local law enforcement agencies with an organized crime syndicate. The code of silence and committing homicides have direct parallels to organized crime so draw one’s own conclusions. As Yogi Berra once said “You can observe a lot from just watching.”
1watcher on September 06 at 10:19 a.m.
wow what seems to be the problem here. You have a young healthly ”police” man that can not disarm an elderly person without killing him. Yet he can beat him with a baton. Is it unreasonable to ask why he couldn’t stirke him in the arm or hand causing him to drop the weapon? Now how could the Pastor be close enough to strike him with the baton but not shot until he was 30 feet away? Are we the public suposed to believe that the officer ID’ed himself as an officier and was then threatened again of further by this elderly pastor/landowner/citizen?