Spokane7
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September 7, 2010 in City
Creach drawing gun when shot, police say
Wayne Scott Creach
(Full-size photo)(All photos)
Spokane County Sheriff’s Deputy Brian Hirzel said he ordered Pastor Wayne Scott Creach to drop his gun multiple times, struck the 74-year-old man in the leg with a police baton and fired only after the property owner began to draw the gun out of his waistband, an investigator said Tuesday in the first detailed account of the Aug. 25 incident that resulted in Creach’s death.
At no time did Creach aim his weapon at Hirzel, according to Spokane Police Lt. Dave McGovern, who supervises the detectives who investigate major crimes.The autopsy following the shooting showed no corresponding mark on Creach’s leg from a baton strike, McGovern said.
“But then again, that doesn’t mean that he wasn’t struck,” the police lieutenant said. “It’s just that there were no marks of it.” Further forensic testing will be done to determine if there are marks on Creach’s trousers or fibers on the baton.
“That’s why we will take the statement piece by piece by piece and go through it,” McGovern said. “That’s going to take us some time.”
Also Tuesday, Spokane Police Chief Anne Kirkpatrick made her first public comments about the “tragic event” her department has taken the lead role in investigating. Kirkpatrick said she hopes the case will be handed over to the Spokane County Prosecutor’s Office by early next week.
She said she met with the Creach family earlier in the day to tell them what detectives have learned in the investigation and “to extend personal condolences on behalf of the law enforcement community.”
Alan Creach, son of the slain Southern Baptist pastor, said Tuesday that his father was killed defending his freedom.
“My dad didn’t understand what that deputy was doing out there. Obviously he had questions. I don’t believe it’s written in the Constitution that when a deputy approaches you have to put your gun down. I think the law of the land is going to have to rule here,” he said. “I’m not a lawyer but it really bothered me incredibly to hear how my father was murdered.”
At the briefing Tuesday, McGovern said Hirzel, a 41-year-old deputy with about 18 years of law enforcement experience, parked just after 11 p.m. on Aug. 25 at Creach’s Spokane Valley nursery business at the request of a neighbor who called for officers to check on prowling activity in the area.
Hirzel told investigators that he didn’t know the business owner lived next door to the Plant Farm, at 14208 E. Fourth Ave., and he had no prior knowledge of numerous police contacts with Creach, who – according to the family – frequently armed himself with a handgun and had apprehended several trespassers.
Hirzel, a deputy assigned to work for the Spokane Valley Police Department, was parked in the business’s parking lot in his unmarked Ford Crown Victoria with the driver’s side window down. He was typing up tickets on his dashboard-mounted computer when he noticed a light to his left.
“He looked over and saw a male, no shirt on, pants, approaching his car and he was about 30 feet away,” McGovern said, describing Scott Creach, as the pastor was known. “He had a gun in his hand. It was down at his side.”
Creach got within a couple feet of the car. “The deputy, as (Creach) was approaching, didn’t feel like he had enough time to get out of the car so he drew his weapon and pointed it out the driver’s side window at Mr. Creach.”
Hirzel told investigators during the two-hour videotaped interview that he told Creach four to six times that he was an officer and that Creach needed to “drop the weapon.”
“Mr. Creach answered a few times, saying he didn’t have to,” McGovern said. “At one point he said … ‘people have stolen from me before.’ We asked (Hirzel) if that clued him into that he was a property owner. (Hirzel) said no, it didn’t. He remembers the statement being made, but it did not clue him in that he was a property owner.”
By then, Creach was next to the unmarked patrol car. Hirzel “ordered him to get back from the car. Mr. Creach took a couple steps back,” McGovern said.
Hirzel then made a radio call for other officers to assist him and got out of the car while continuing to keep his service pistol aimed at Creach.
“While Mr. Creach was backing up, he put his gun in the waistband of his trousers” behind his back, McGovern said. “The deputy was ordering Mr. Creach down to the ground. Mr. Creach said, ‘I don’t have to go down on the ground. I’m not going down on the ground.’”
At that point, Hirzel took his police baton and “struck Mr. Creach once in the knee area. The deputy said that caused Mr. Creach to buckle and at the same point, he reached back with his right hand and started to draw out his gun.”
Hirzel holstered his baton, grabbed his pistol with both hands and fired once, killing Creach.
Hirzel said as Creach “brought the gun up and he could see the butt of the gun when he fired the shot,” McGovern said. Creach “was drawing the gun out his back waistband.”
Alan Creach said the light Hirzel saw when he spotted the pastor was his dad’s flashlight, which was not mentioned by McGovern or other law enforcement officials.
“We haven’t heard one word about his flashlight,” Alan Creach said. “As dad was coming across the parking lot, he had a flashlight in his hand and a gun. They were the two tools he always took.”
Creach “blinked it at (Hirzel),” said Alan Creach. It’s his belief that his father used the flashlight to communicate with Hirzel, possibly to let him know that he was going to approach the car.
Hirzel’s statement doesn’t fit with what Imogene Creach heard from her open bedroom window, according to her family. She had a pre-determined procedure in which she would listen and call 911 if she heard her husband call for help.
“His testimony truly does not match up to what my mother heard. She could clearly hear my father, who was facing away from her,” Alan Creach said. Hirzel “was facing toward her and she didn’t hear anything he reportedly said.”
Alan Creach noted that Hirzel several times talked about how Scott Creach complied with his commands.
Scott Creach complied “by stepping back. He put the gun in his waistband behind his back. Everything else is Hirzel’s account,” he said. “Perhaps in anger or fear, I think he reacted poorly. It’s clear he didn’t exercise good judgment. I have confidence that Deputy Hirzel will be charged with a crime. Anything else, I don’t think it’s reasonable.”
Kirkpatrick pointed out that Hirzel’s statement is “what he says happened. It raises new questions,” she said. “Now we have to go back and do more investigation. You just can’t close this because he gave a statement. Now we have to go do the leg work and the forensics of that.”
Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich was asked how residents who arm themselves to investigate situations on their own property should react when they encounter a police officer or deputy.
“With great rights come great responsibilities,” he said. “We have to ensure that if a law enforcement officer is there for a lawful purpose and they are confronted with an armed subject, just make sure that we don’t escalate that situation. If that means putting the gun down until the officer knows who you are, that is a reasonable expectation.”
Alan Creach said he views those rights differently.
“The sheriff brought up Hirzel’s 5th Amendment rights. That same document that allows (Hirzel) to keep his mouth shut also gave my father the right to approach that car with a firearm in a safe condition and not be killed,” Creach said. “You can spin it any which way. I look at it as murder.”
Killing suspect remains at large 
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opiemuyo on September 07 at 2:43 p.m.
Multiple cop hating comments in 3,2,1……..
misjustice on September 07 at 2:45 p.m.
How very true! Just look at all the other comments on this subject! No wonder the officers are jumpy!!
armedcitizen on September 07 at 2:59 p.m.
Another tid bit of information is revealed. So now my question is; is the only witness telling the truth? An autopsy report that revals a bruised knee and the angle of trajectory on the bullet should help answer that one. No expert here, maybe I’ve been watching too much CSI.
terrymr on September 07 at 3:05 p.m.
Once the gun was in his waistband there’s no way to drop it without reaching for it.
Scoutster on September 07 at 3:08 p.m.
Steve and Gramma…
Has there EVER been a bad cop? Ever?
How would you want people to respond to such a person? Just give them unyielding freedom to do what they want? Or should the public have some level of control over the people they pay for?
dialectica on September 07 at 3:14 p.m.
Glad that more information is finally being made available.
This is a tough one all the way around.
Officer safety vs. private property and gun rights.
Does anyone know if state law requires that property owners completely disarm themselves whenever they are in the presence of a law enforcement officer who may not know who they are?
Scoutster on September 07 at 3:14 p.m.
Did anyone ask at the news conference if a blood/drug test was done on the deputy? I am sure he would have complied to demonstrate his innocence if he had been asked.
I mean, why wouldn’t he?
jenilynn on September 07 at 3:14 p.m.
This is a very sad situation and did not need to happen. I do agree that some of the circumstances with the officers account seem rather odd. Sadly I do believe that Mr Creach should not ever have been walking around armed and confronting people. This did not need to happen.
opiemuyo on September 07 at 3:18 p.m.
Scoutster, I have faith in the system, and I sleep very well at night, comforted by it. As it would appear, you do not, and it must be very hard for you.
buckkeely on September 07 at 3:23 p.m.
This is an outrage.. Scott was on his property the officer was not in danger… Scott complied with the with the order to put his gun away… he was attacked by the man who was payed to protect him.. was he going for his gun? I don’t know but he had a right to defend himself against an attack on his own property… this officer of the law could have held him until help came and it did in short order but he chose to attack an old man with a club… what a shame if this is the truth this man must be fired and called to account for what he has done… we do not live in the wild west with a sheriff who beats up and shoots who he will… this practice must come to an end we can not allow our paid servants to become free agents not answering to the public that hires them…
buckkeely on September 07 at 3:23 p.m.
This is an outrage.. Scott was on his property the officer was not in danger… Scott complied with the with the order to put his gun away… he was attacked by the man who was payed to protect him.. was he going for his gun? I don’t know but he had a right to defend himself against an attack on his own property… this officer of the law could have held him until help came and it did in short order but he chose to attack an old man with a club… what a shame if this is the truth this man must be fired and called to account for what he has done… we do not live in the wild west with a sheriff who beats up and shoots who he will… this practice must come to an end we can not allow our paid servants to become free agents not answering to the public that hires them…
misjustice on September 07 at 3:29 p.m.
There are bad people in every walk of life. There are more good officers then bad ones & I, personally, will wait until ALL the information is out there before I make my final decision. BUT, until then, I will defend the officers for doing their jobs.
I wouldn’t want the job but someone HAS to do it. I just get really tired of listening to the bleeding hearts believe this was just out & out murder on the part of the officer. The man had a gun. Man didn’t put the gun down when the officer told him to. When the rest of the info is out, we will learn that not only did the man pull the gun from the waistband, but he actually pointed it at the officer because he was angry the officer hit him with the baton.
bdr on September 07 at 3:30 p.m.
Its funny if I park in someones lot and they come after me angry like…..(I simply assume its the owner).?
If Hirzel didn’t know who he was……then he should basically quit being a cop and relearn society.
Criminals run from the law,and owners challenge trespassers.
This case is getting nutz……..(hog wash)
The cop was spooked,shot and hes now covering up his mistakes.
vinnydogg on September 07 at 3:40 p.m.
Hey Terry, ever been shot in the chest? I don’t give a damn what the cop say’s he had plenty of time to make up his story. The facts may never be known because of favoritism.
Who but Herzil will ever know. It’s on his conscience and he’ll have to live with his choice.
What ever happened to NON lethal force ???
vinnydogg on September 07 at 3:41 p.m.
Oh, and wasn’t Herzil actually trespassing ?
andjusticeforall on September 07 at 3:42 p.m.
Well Gramma, when an officer shoots & kills you on your own property i will remember that “they were just doing there job” & will keep in mind that it was your own fault
carisa021 on September 07 at 3:47 p.m.
This is NOT the wild west…and it is a felony to point a gun at someone unless your life is in imminent danger. You cannot shoot someone to defend your private property either; only if an intruder enters your home or business.
This is an unfortunate case where we all should study up on firearm rules of engagement. It’s easy to grab a gun in order to threaten someone, but then you’ve crossed the line and become a vigilante. When you brandish your weapon, you escalate the situation to the gravest level.
kennyhuston on September 07 at 3:53 p.m.
Why does it not list any facts from the coroner’s report? Was there a mark where Mr. Creach was allegedly struck with the baton? Did this officer not have a taser? The whole timeline thing doesn’t sound right. IF, and I stress IF Mr. Creach was struck by the officer why wouldn’t he just go down? Was it a dirt parking lot that would show these events via footprints and whatnot? Come on SR - maybe it would be a good idea for the next article’s author to go through the posts concerning this event and try to answer some of these questions!
terrymr on September 07 at 4:11 p.m.
It does seem that the deputy escalated the situation rather than defusing it. From what has been said the gun was never pointed at the deputy so there’s no crime there.
Open carry is legal in washington, and the guy was on his own property.
Once he put it away the deputy should have explained himself and found out who he was talking to.
Again, this is the way it seems from today’s press release.
maria on September 07 at 4:12 p.m.
Did the cop ever identify himself as a police officer to the victim? Sounds like a jumpy cop who could have showed his badge before demanding the property owner put his gun down.
mikewsu on September 07 at 4:13 p.m.
“We still have to put this in seconds, because this happened in seconds,” said Lt. McGovern.
‘Deputy Vegas’ can recount what happened every second, a whole Las Vegas partying filled week later?
Right…
vinnydogg on September 07 at 4:16 p.m.
How do you get shot in the chest if you’re “buckled” over ???
maria on September 07 at 4:18 p.m.
If the cop was processing tickets, as he stated, should he have been doing that on private property? He was supposed to be watching the property, wasn’t he? (not doing paperwork from other incidents that day) Sounds like the cop got blind-sided because he wasn’t paying attention to his surroundings and shot the old man in a panic.
lewis8457 on September 07 at 4:28 p.m.
The first part of the news conference had to do with kirkpatrick pulling Ozzie out of the fire. I thought that was odd.
What prowler approaches a cop car? Cop should have been thinking something wasn’t right.
Gramma cops are jumpy because now it is just not malcontents like me everyone in Spokane is upset and scared and hopefully arming them selves. next time someone gets pulled over the cop might keep one hand on his gun butt and you can bet the citizen has his hand on a gun too. Sadly it has become the only real protection we can count on.
steve i am glad you feel safe i feel safe in my own home but once i get in my car I am always watching for a cop car. I must say i really enjoy following the off duty cops up monroe at 60 mph. I turned one of them into crime check one time for running the red light at garland and monroe in his big red truck. he probably got a promotion for it.
maria on September 07 at 4:29 p.m.
Earlier reports said a gun was found on the ground with the body. Maybe he did drop it afterall. That would really suck.
kennyhuston on September 07 at 4:31 p.m.
I have friends who are heavy equipment operators, and in the event they should have an accident, (not even a fatal one), they’re required to submit to a drug test right there on the spot. How come in the event of a lethal confrontation this is NOT required from the shooter, officer or not?
buckkeely on September 07 at 4:32 p.m.
Scott had the right to arm himself for self defense, it is not against the law.. it was not only his right but a prudent action to take.The officer should have not attacked Scott it was an unnecessary action taken by the officer, was it because Scott was an old man? what action would this officer taken if it was a young fit man? ..what ever the reason this officer escalated this situation at the cost of Scott’s life, Scott’s death is the sole responsibility of the officer who chose to attack and shoot a innocent man on his own property. The public must demand action to keep this from happening to another innocent person in our community
maria on September 07 at 4:34 p.m.
Oh, the cop was on his computer. Maybe the old man caught him looking at porn and the cop got mad.
jddavis on September 07 at 4:37 p.m.
So was Rev Creach holding the gun when the deputy hit him with the baton? or was it in his waistband? If Rev Creach was holding the gun, why would the deputy get close enough and hit him with the baton INSTEAD of drawing his weapon (and using it)?
If Rev Creach’s gun was in his waistband (in plain view), why would the duputy hit Rev Creach with his baton or shoot him?
The story doesn’t make sense.
Scoutster on September 07 at 4:38 p.m.
Can “diabetic delirium” be far behind?
What else would explain Mr. Creach’s irrational behavior?
Steve and Gramma…
I don’t hate cops. Matter of fact, I used to have a lot of respect for them. Now, facts and history have taught me that such blind faith is foolish. You are fortunate in your childlike trust. Wish I still had it.
Doesn’t make me wrong or you right or the other way around. Our experiences are just different (no, I never spend a day in jail except as a jailer).
maria on September 07 at 4:40 p.m.
Who brings a baton to a gunfight?
PlanB on September 07 at 4:49 p.m.
Unbelievable.
TerryMR, you’ve got it exactly right - Hirzel escalated the situation despite Creach complying with his request to back away and placing his gun in the waistband of his pants.
Creach, by his actions, obviously knew Hirzel was a Deputy and not a prowler. There’s nothing in Hirzel’s story to indicate Creach ever showed aggression towards him.
lewis8457 on September 07 at 4:53 p.m.
now we need a Creach kid to say if his father ever put his gun in his waistband LIKE A COP WOULD DO.
lewis8457 on September 07 at 4:55 p.m.
maria your right how about some kiddie porn would that be enough to kill for?
carisa021 on September 07 at 4:56 p.m.
Open carry is not the same as brandishing, which is illegal.
RCW 9.41.270 It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm…with an intent to intimidate another. Except:
(a) …by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;
(b) …by a public safety officer in the line of duty;
(c) …by a person protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person.
“C” doesn’t seem to apply unless the undercover cop had not ID’d himself and was “presently” about to hit him over the head with a tire iron.
maria on September 07 at 4:57 p.m.
I don’t know, Lewis. A man alone in the dark with a computer sounds kinda fishy to me. I hope his bosses are getting all the data off his hard drive from that night.
tanker67 on September 07 at 5:00 p.m.
No witnesses, no video, cops word against who? Know one. Someone made the statement “how does one get plugged in the chest if doubled over”. Great point.This whole incident took place in a matter of seconds if not milliseconds. Makes the whole community second guess the trustworthiness of our “police protection”.
Sadbuttrue on September 07 at 5:02 p.m.
“No wonder the officers are jumpy!!”
They are jumpy because their “training” brainwashes them into thinking that we are the enemy, and that they are entitled to forcibly subdue us into knuckling under to their will. They are “trained” to act like a hostile enemy occupation force and that their personal safety is their highest duty. They are trained to demand respect and obedience without actually earning it. They are trained that they are entitled to $100,000 a year jobs because of the “danger,” when being a cop is 12th on the list of the most dangerous jobs in America this year. They are trained to tell any lie in order to cover the misdeeds of their fellows. They are trained to argue publicly that cops should have several days to give their testimony in the name of “accuracy,” when the public is given minutes or seconds to give theirs.
I’d be “jumpy” too, if I were a cop.
maria on September 07 at 5:06 p.m.
It used to be that cops knew the people in their neighborhood and were friendly and helpful without being arrogant. Now they only want to associate with each other. It’s a gang of cops, so to speak. They don’t trust us and in return we don’t trust them.
tanker67 on September 07 at 5:07 p.m.
The whole thing smells but I can’t quote an RCW on that.
carisa021 on September 07 at 5:08 p.m.
So unfortunately Mr. Creach broke the law when he brandished. Strike 1. Didn’t put the gun down. Strike 2. After you brandish, you’re gonna have to get on the floor, which he refused to do. Strike 3.
There was no way the cop was going to have a calm, reasonable discussion with him after simply putting the pistol in his waistband.
maria on September 07 at 5:08 p.m.
Oh, and having been raped in the ‘70’s by a police officer in uniform I can attest to that former trust which sadly got broken.
bvml on September 07 at 5:10 p.m.
To Sheriff Ozzie:
You have disappointed the community that elected you. What a shame.
This incident will be the end of your career unless you step up. So far it has been a farce.
DavidBray on September 07 at 5:15 p.m.
Okay, let me see if I have this right: Creach walks up holding a gun down to his side (not in an aggressive manner). Hirzel tells him to drop the gun, but Creach puts it in his waistband (a submissive act). Then Hirzel tells Creach to “get on his knees” (does Creach have bad knees or arthritis?). Creach doesn’t get on his knees so Hirzel strikes the old guy across the knees with his baton (ouch!)….knowing Creach has a gun on him!! Creach sees this as aggressive behavior on the cops part (I assume) and starts to draw his weapon. Hirzel draws his weapon (or was it already drawn?) and blows Craech away.
Hmmmm. Sounds like the situation was tenuous and the cop was too aggressive toward a 74 year old man in his PJ’s. After Creach had “holstered” his piece, why decide to use force to make him comply with more demands? If I had a .45 (that may have cost several hundred dollars and probably did) I wouldn’t be too anxious to damage it by dropping it on the ground. It was basically put away.
I think the cop could have handled this a lot better and I hate it that information about this is coming out pieces at a time. The cop looks bad right now. Craech didn’t do anything illegal until he began to draw his weapon in his own defense.
I can’t imagine how much a it hurts when your 74 and someone hits you in the knees with a piece of wood (or metal?).
Shylock13 on September 07 at 5:17 p.m.
The obfuscation continues. The “story” gets more involved, and as it gets more involved it becomes less and less credible!
If the Reverend put the gun in his waistband, why was he attacked with a baton? How did the officer determine that the Reverend was drawing his gun to shoot rather than pulling it out to drop it? If the Reverend was falling to the ground, how could he have been shot in the chest? What was the entry angle of the bullet? And why are law enforcement officers not routinely tested for alcohol/drugs after using their firearms at all, let alone after using deadly force? More questions that will never be answered (please see my earlier question lists on earlier press excuses…er…releases)!
For most of us citizens, the vast majority of law enforcement officers are reliable, brave, and honest, and are doing a very tough job where their lives are often on the line. We deeply appreciate them and what they do. But why do they protect the few who abuse their position?
This case will be another whitewash! I hope the family asks the feds to investigate, and I hope they file a wrongful death suit. I would be more than happy to iterate to their attorney all of my questions about the case that will never be answered by those now investigating!
We need a Civilian Review Board! Why would the law enforcement agencies object?
Shylock13 on September 07 at 5:22 p.m.
The next “press excuse” will have the Reverend rolling his eyes and foaming at the mouth while uttering curses!
madman65 on September 07 at 5:24 p.m.
This must be a JOKE law enforcement officers are trained to disarm a suspect not kill them. Scott Creach was 73 years old you can’t expect us to believe that officer Hirzel was unable to disarm a 73 year old man with his with his baton and training. It does not sound like we will ever find out the truth. Even if we don’t know the truth God and officer Hirzel knows what really happened that night. I pray for specially the Creach family and officer Hirzel and his family
jddavis on September 07 at 5:34 p.m.
Carisa—your version sounds possible, however, you need to work in the baton “problem.” At what point in your scenario does the deputy strike Rev Creach with a baton? If Rev Creach was such a threat “brandishing” his sidearm, why in the world would the deputy allow him to get close enough to strike him with a baton?
The “facts” as presented thus far by the investigators don’t hold water.
madman65 on September 07 at 5:45 p.m.
Carisa get real this officer was able to disarm a 74 year old man with his baton he is trained to do just that instead he killed an innocent man, the real truth is not been made known. Do you have a vendetta against 74 year old men or preachers because you seem to be reaching hard to believe this un-credible account of what happened that night?
misjustice on September 07 at 5:45 p.m.
From what is “known” so far, there is only one thing that I can say with certainty. Once Mr. Creach, who was armed, had contact with the cop, Mr Creach’s death certificate was signed.
KXLY reported on their 5 p.m. segment that another person, besides Mrs. Creach, heard (at least some of ) the confrontation, what I’d guess you’d call an audio witness? Anyway, more at 6 p.m. Stay tuned.
trucker on September 07 at 5:50 p.m.
This is typical of some cops these days. They want everyone to “get on the ground” even if they are not arresting them, including a 74 year old man. The officer told Creach to put down his gun. Creach put it in his waistband which he had a right to do. That in itself should have shown the officer, that Creach was not a threat. Then the cop tells Creach to get on the ground for no reason and assaults Creach with the baton when he refuses.
This is not about an officer defending himself. In my opinion, it is about the the officer’s arrogance just because his “order” wasn’t obeyed even though he had absolutely no reason or right to issue it in the first place. Have we come to the point of where we have to get on the ground anytime a police officer orders it? This type of law enforcement behavior is not about safety. It is about police arrogance and control. I wonder sometimes if it is because they watch too many cop shows on TV.
If the officer’s account is correct, then what did he expect Creach to do? First he orders Creach to put down his gun. Creach places it in his waistband instead. The officer then hits Creach in the knee to make him kneel down. Even if Creach did reach to pull out his gun, wouldn’t that be the normal thing to do after the police officer told him to place the gun on the ground and then assaults Creach with the baton? That was what the officer said he wanted him to do first place— put his gun on the ground.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/sep/07/creach-drawing-gun-when-shot-police-say/
force_vector on September 07 at 6:04 p.m.
I attended Boarding Team School for the military, and as such, carried a baton on many boardings. I can tell you this, the damage done by inflicting a blow on a person via a baton is extreme. So much so, that according to rules of engagement, purposefully placing a baton strike at the knees or head would place you at serious risk of a court hearing. A baton in the hands of a trained person is every bit as lethal or debilitating as a gun. I don’t believe for one second that both had to be used on an old man. This is a lie. This story is pissing me off more by the day.
Sadbuttrue on September 07 at 6:12 p.m.
This just in from KXLY, regarding the priorities of our police force:
“Unless something changes 45 positions will be slashed, putting the department in the position of doing more with less, Chief Kirkpatrick said. Of those 45 positions, 37 are police officers.
In addition to the position cuts, 25 detectives, sergeants and lieutenants will be demoted and paid less.
That means if the budget proposal stands as is in many cases there will be no police response to theft or property crime calls.
“If my car is prowled, my whole day is ruined, we’ve all been victims it ruins your whole day,” Kirkpatrick said.
And to make your day worse, it is likely that police will not respond to your call.”
In light of what happened to Pastor Creech, this is a “glass half empty, glass half full” kind of threat. On the one hand, the police will no longer be forced to pretend like they care about protecting our property. That’s bad. One wonders what the remaining police force will accomplish with their lavish pay and benefits: Presumably more marijuana arrests? Or perhaps more revenue-enhancing speed traps?
On the other hand, by not responding to prowler calls, fewer of us will get shot down in cold blood. That’s a good thing.
vinnydogg on September 07 at 6:27 p.m.
I have come to the conclusion that the only way to arrest (pun intended) this situation is to hold a rally in front of the courthouse and see how many of us get assaulted, beaten or shot.
PlanB on September 07 at 6:36 p.m.
Less cops? I feel safer already, although I’m sure there will still be plenty of “special emphasis” patrols. Apparently the potential of unbuckled occupants of cars, potential improper installation of car seats, having a glass of wine with dinner, and insignificant violations of arbitrarily set speed limits are the true threats to our society.
My point isn’t that these things are not important, but to show how ridiculous the priorities of law enforcement are. I’m sick of all the scare tactics that get pulled out whenever the kingdom of law enforcement is threatened in any way.
Sadbuttrue on September 07 at 6:40 p.m.
The deputy needs to be sent on another vacation to fabricate a better story, perhaps this time to Chicago where even the most egregious falsehoods are publicly celebrated as a local art form. A cop with his many years of experience should be able to lie much more convincingly with a lot less effort.
Sadbuttrue on September 07 at 6:44 p.m.
Plan B,
And don’t forget the clear and present danger that tinted windows pose to the life and limb of the police.
zelda on September 07 at 6:50 p.m.
Unless the officer had an eight-foot baton, this means that Creach was shot point blank.
What kind of a police officer expects a 74-year-old man, someone I presume was a proud and dignified businessman guarding his own establishment and home, to kneel before him? Is that a power trip or what?
The information is coming out in dribs and drabs, but each revelation makes every law enforcement executive involved look worse. Ozzie was not in town because he was attending a “business meeting.” Does that mean that he can’t communicate with his officers back in Spokane once he’s out of town? I would think he’d be on-call for emergencies such as this. There are such things as cellphones.
This is similar to what doctors do for each other. It’s a matter of reciprocity. They know they have some colleagues who are incompetent and causing harm to patients, but they don’t report them on the belief that they could be in the same position some day and only another doctor could appreciate the extenuating circumstances. The solution is to pass the “performance issue” along to another city or town. Make it someone else’s problem. Could it be that Hirzel was someone else’ problem once and now he’s ours?
force_vector on September 07 at 6:52 p.m.
When I lived in Seattle, you had to be driving like a complete idiot to get pulled over. It’s not worth the cops time to show up in court for your 5 mph over the speed limit ticket, nor is it worth backing up traffic to pull you over for it. Since moving here, is seems people are paranoid to even do the speed limit on the freeway, which actually makes driving here more dangerous than it would be otherwise. The police here are utterly pathetic and cause more harm than they do good. Since 9/11, we have portrayed all law enforcement as “heroes”, and put them on a pedestal for “putting themselves in harms way” for us. Since when is shooting anything that seems threatening putting yourself in harms way?? Anyone can do that! Police are only heroes when they show restraint, save lives by not arbitrarily taking them, and do more than issue traffic citations for negligible infractions. These cops in Spokane County are utterly pathetic and make me sick. Screw you guys. And before the “law enforcement” lovers respond with a “who are you going to call when you need help?” bs, i”ll just tell you: not these clowns. If all they are going to do is react illogically and potentially shoot me on my own property, I’ll take care of things myself. I had no use for the third string high school QB in high school, and I don’t need his pathetic self 13 years later either. Screw you Spokane Valley PD and Spokane Valley SD! You….SUCK!
zelda on September 07 at 7:18 p.m.
KXLY’s Jeff Humphrey reported on the 6 o’clock news that the station would be posting an interview/statement with Alan Creach on its website around 8 p.m. tonight.
Spokane_Citizen on September 07 at 7:28 p.m.
Well….we’ll probably never know the truth. The only living witness tells a tale of staggering improbability.
Fortunately, civil courts exist to parse the details (and remember, such courts and their juries are not held to the requirement of proof beyond reasonable doubt), which will no doubt result (after years of delays) an award of an extremely large settlement to the survivors. Though it will provide little comfort for their loss, it will certainly (and righteously), financially punish the citizenry for tolerating this behavior.
remymartin on September 07 at 7:37 p.m.
Looks like we will get information on a piecemeal basis. According to what we know now, the only words that Mr. Creach uttered were “I don’t have to” when told to drop his weapon. Was there a point in time before the fatal shot when each knew who the other was? There had to be more said in this here incident. Let’s give Deputy Hirzel a couple more weeks vacation to see what other stuff he can remember about killing a man on his own property.
armedcitizen on September 07 at 8:12 p.m.
I wonder if I had a .45 stuck in my pants and got my knee taken out from under me. Now maybe the front sight is digging into my inner thigh or maybe the grip is jabbing into my belly as I buckle over in pain. I ain’t thinking too clearly at the moment because I’m my knee hurts like crazy and that damn .45 is jabbing into me. So without thinking I instinctively grab it on the way…
westerly on September 07 at 8:12 p.m.
” Spokane Valley pastor had put his gun in the waistband of his pants and was reaching for it when he was shot by a Spokane County Sheriff’s Deputy “
Ya, he reached for his gun AFTER Herzel clubbed him in the knee!! Get it right SR!
worthasecondlook on September 07 at 8:18 p.m.
So which one of you whiney people are going to take his job and take these risks every night for that paycheck? Somebody needs to protect me and my family……which one of you finger pointers wants that job? Freedom isn’t free. Anytime you point a gun at someone you can get shot, especially someone who is paid to prevent people from pointing guns at each other.
Taking the law into your own hands and pointing guns at other people comes with a risk. Don’t own a gun, don’t need one. You guys should focus on making money, which is the best defense against any threat. Make enough to put your family in a safe neighborhood, safe schools, and to pay your fair share of taxes.
This victim should have waited inside and let the police respond to the call and do the job he pays them to do and perhaps they would have shot the prowler. At least the officer had the internal guts to pull the trigger while doing his job. I wouldn’t have the guts, that is why I have made it my business to make the money to protect my interests.
It is easy to criticize, but how many will vote to pay $1k more this year to get more patrols? I will all day long. Shortsighted comments are being made, eventually there will be nobody between you and the next crime and you will long to have this officer on duty. The takeaway is that ignorant and judgmental people are often unhappy and unhappy people live a lot shorter life so maybe I can finish my life with police protection if they will continue to do their self-sacrificing work for the money we offer them. I don’t care if they can eventually make 100k, my life is worth a ton more than that.
worthasecondlook on September 07 at 8:21 p.m.
Westerly: Why criticize the SR? Quit getting your free news here and go to Krem where they charge you half the story to get your news. Living life on one side of the story…..sounds like a conspiracist dream. Live your life and quit whining about other people who are doing their best to live theirs.
Ed Byrnes on September 07 at 8:28 p.m.
The details of this story become increasingly improbable with every iteration. Our local law enforcement “bad apples” will remain arrogant and violently dangerous until held accountable. Our law enforcement “good apples” will hopefully find the courage within themselves to speak out when direct citizen review of police use of lethal and potentially lethal force changes the current corrupt culture for the better.
If police are the professionals they assert that they are no amount of words from us citizens should justify violent behavior on their parts, words don’t make competent professionals jumpy. If you look at the tally there have been several citizens physically abused and killed by local enforcement during the past few years and no officers or deputies killed or physically abused. It stands to reason then that us citizens should be jumpy about the police and sheriff’s deputies.
I lived in a large city on the east coast during the 1960s and 1970s where police accountability was absent and police violence, especially in minority communities like the one I lived in, was normative. The situation devolved into one of wanton violence on both sides of the conflict and we must prevent that from being our path here in Spokane.
There is a better way and we must follow it together.
Transparent accountability through direct citizen review of police use of force has healed and improved other communities and we need this process to heal our own community.
notanidiot101 on September 07 at 8:45 p.m.
OMG First of all, the cop was not looking at porn on his computer. It wasn’t HIS computer, it is the county’s. They can’t even play solitaire on county computers. Don’t be stupid. Secondly, Creach had put the gun in his pants earlier. The cop ordered Creach to go to the ground so to take away any quick actions by Creach. Creach did not like being told what to do, clearly. The deputy then used his baton (isn’t that what you people always say: why didn’t the cop use his baton??”) It was THEN, that Creach reached for his gun. Why?? Never did Creach identify himself as the property owner!! The deputy not only identified himself, but then got out of his car and stood up. I think that being in full uniform with a badge on the front was good enough ID. Does anyone remember Brian Orchard?? He was a city officer that got shot and killed while sitting in his patrol car. Someone walked right up to him, for no reason, and shot him and killed him. Oh, and to people like “Maria” who post on this site, wake up!! we dont live in the 60’s anymore when cops know everyone in the neighborhood. Geez people, take a step back and look at this situation for what it is. A pissed off property owner who was sick of people stealing from him, who didn’t want anyone on his property (unless they were buying something from him) and who definitely didn’t like being told what to do. Oh, btw, I was told that if Creach was shot in the heart, which he was, that there would not be any bruising on his body from being hit with a baton because he would have bled out.
bszottlinger on September 07 at 8:46 p.m.
carisia:
Now that you have sited the statue would you mind citing some Washington State case law regarding the issue of intimidation with a weapon on private property. I would also be interested to know whether or not by definition his or her place of abode or fixed place of business would also include the curtilage in Washington. Would State v Studd or State v Redmond have any bearing on this matter? What is the legal definition of “brandishing” in Washington State and is there a difference between brandishing and intimidating. Do you happen to know if the property was properly trespass posted? Or is this just the kind of parking lot cops drive through every day?
I’m just curious if carrying a weapon at your side on your own property represents “brandishing” or “intimidation” in Washington State. I’m also curious as to whether or not, at the direction of the officer, placing a gun in your waistband rather than dropping it to the ground would constitute non-compliance with a lawful order.
There sure is a lot of interesting stuff…looks like they didn’t wait to get all the forensics back before they did the interview. Did anyone happen to notice that they are submitting the baton to the lab to see if there are any fibers from Mr. Creach’s pants on it. Think it might be because there was no evidence of trauma on Mr. Creach’s legs? I would be willing to bet they aren’t happy that the info about no trauma to the legs was leaked by Alan Creach. I think the Detective made a big mistake in telling him. I bet if they try for a follow-up interview now that this info is public, they may have a hard time getting one.
Ron_the_Cop:
See why I don’t like time frames. Its nuts to think you can have it all together in 48-72 hours. In Maryland it’s 10 days before you can interview the officer. Does Washington State have a “Police Officer’s Bill of Rights” like they do in California and many other States? Why is it all you cops from California like to carry those straight batons instead of what other cops carry? Happen to notice who was missing from the press conference?
Brad
vinnydogg on September 07 at 8:48 p.m.
Spokane citizen,
“Well….we’ll probably never know the truth. The only living witness tells a tale of staggering improbability.
Fortunately, civil courts exist to parse the details (and remember, such courts and their juries are not held to the requirement of proof beyond reasonable doubt), which will no doubt result (after years of delays) an award of an extremely large settlement to the survivors. Though it will provide little comfort for their loss, it will certainly (and righteously), financially punish the citizenry for tolerating this behavior.”
WELL SAID !!!!!
worthasecondlook on September 07 at 8:49 p.m.
Cutting the budgets causes police (the ones who are not laid off) to carry a larger burden, therefore they are tougher and have to juggle lots more crime and stronger criminals who know the force is low on patrolmen. Increase the budget, get more police then next time two officers will show up and maybe this guy lives.
misjustice on September 07 at 8:50 p.m.
worthasecondlook on September 07 at 8:18 p.m.
You said everything I wanted to say & more!!!! Even better than I could have said it!!!!!!
THANK YOU!!!!
vinnydogg on September 07 at 8:52 p.m.
BSZ . . To brandish is to: Definition of BRANDISH
1
: to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2
: to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner
Examples of BRANDISH
1. She brandished a stick at the dog.
2. I could see that he was brandishing a knife.
Origin of BRANDISH
Middle English braundisshen, from Anglo-French brandiss-, stem of brandir, from brant, braund sword, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English brand
First Known Use: 14th century
bszottlinger on September 07 at 8:54 p.m.
Cousin Vinny:
I need the legal not the Webster. :)
westerly on September 07 at 9:02 p.m.
“That’s why we will take the statement piece by piece by piece and go through it,” McGovern said. “That’s going to take us some time.”
What..a couple of years???
Scoutster on September 07 at 9:03 p.m.
Oooops….
I don’t think Lt McGovern was supposed to talk so much.
Poor Anne (Ozzie’s big sister). She’s standing there saying to herself “Shut the f*ck up, McGovern!”. He took the whole press conference exactly the opposite of where it was ‘posed to go.
What a hoot!
vinnydogg on September 07 at 9:06 p.m.
I’ve been accused of “intimidating” a 300lb man who was running around my apartment complex kicking in doors and yelling “Security …Maintenance … ” after three people tried to confront him to ask what he was doing and being told it was “none of their
**** ing business, I went out with my gun unconcealed in a holster.
A soon as the cops arrived I was singled out and fat boy told them (after hiding before they got there) He was “scared” …
The cops didn’t even ask any of the witnesses and hauled my arse of to jail …
SO NO I DIDN’T GET A WEEK OF VACATION TO DEFEND MY RIGHTS …
Just a $200 fine & 2 years probation even though I had a concealed weapons permit !!! (and still have)
Sadbuttrue on September 07 at 9:10 p.m.
“So which one of you whiney people are going to take his job and take these risks every night for that paycheck?”
There were 67 total logging related fatalities in WA State from 1998-2008, an average of almost seven per year.
There have been 23 deaths of Police Officers in the line of duty in Spokane County since 1867, on average approximately one every seven years. This includes officers who died of a heart attack from overexerting themselves at a training facility, or in routine, garden-variety traffic accidents, or getting accidently shot by another cop at the shooting range.
It is demonstrably false to argue that local cops take “risks every night.” In fact, the risks they take - if any - certainly in no way justifies the use of deadly force against Pastor Creech.
vinnydogg on September 07 at 9:11 p.m.
BSZ … . .
RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.
(1)(a) Except in the person’s place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee’s person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.
(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.
(4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.
[2003 c 53 § 28; 1997 c 200 § 1; 1996 c 295 § 4; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 405; 1982 1st ex.s. c 47 § 3; 1961 c 124 § 4; 1935 c 172 § 5; RRS § 2516-5.]
Notes:
Intent — Effective date — 2003 c 53: See notes following RCW 2.48.180.
Finding — Intent — Severability — 1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540.
Effective date — 1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.
Severability — 1982 1st ex.s. c 47: See note following RCW 9.41.190.
bszottlinger on September 07 at 9:14 p.m.
Notanidiot101:
Did you talk to a forensic pathologist about anti and post mortem bruising? Did he/she happen to mention the various issues from a forensic standpoint with a chest wound? Did you happen to find out whether or not a forensic pathologist can definitively date a bruise or bruising? Or was it just your Pharmacist you talked to?
bszottlinger on September 07 at 9:17 p.m.
Scoutster:
You got it buddy!
notanidiot101 on September 07 at 9:19 p.m.
bszottlinger: wow!! so many big words…..
vinnydogg on September 07 at 9:19 p.m.
Have you seen the newest SR post “No corresponding bruise to his leg” from the coroner then the cover up BS
bszottlinger on September 07 at 9:21 p.m.
Cousin Vinny:
I know, I know I was just trying to point some things out to carisa and be fair both ways…where is soccermomsusie when you need her.
jddavis on September 07 at 9:24 p.m.
Worthasecondlook—I will take that job, the risks, and the paycheck that goes with it. I am certain I could keep a 74 year old man from reaching for his “holstered” sidearm after I took his knee out with my baton.
So why did the deputy need to use his baton after Rev Creach secured his sidearm in his waistband?
Surely any person involved in law enforcement would think it highly likely to be approached by an armed property owner if they were there uninvited by the property owner, particularly at night. I am not anti-law enforcement; actually I am quite pro-law enforcement. The facts about this tragedy certainly cast the deputy, the sherriff, and the department in a bad light. Given the other highly questionable incidents by law enforcement agencies in Spokane County, people are justified in looking at this incident with a critical eye.
If the risks, lifestyle, and paychecks are not satisfactory for anyone in law enforcement, they can resign their position.
vinnydogg on September 07 at 9:28 p.m.
Bsz LoL !
I’m just glad that this is starting to finally fire up the seemingly placid (or flaccid) Spokanites to realize there is a time for change and it is NOW ! Vote VOTE VOTE !!!
richardthelionhearted on September 07 at 9:35 p.m.
Let’s see…….club the man, your close enough to baton him and then when he supposedly reaches for the gun, you ARE NOT close enough to baton it out of his hand? So you have to shoot him and kill him. I wasn’t aware that it was “Quickdraw Creech” you were dealing with. God, what a BS cover up story! You can SEE the BS and they expect us to eat this Sh*t Sandwich!!
notanidiot101 on September 07 at 9:35 p.m.
According to the article, the deputy did not know Creach was the property owner, because Creach did not, and WOULD NOT identify himself. All he said was he was sick of people stealing from him, while standing there shirtless and in jeans, with a gun. I don’t know how the deputy was supposed to know Creach was the property owner. Is he supposed to say “excuse me, man approaching me with a gun, can you wait for a sec til I call the County assessors office and find out who the property owner is?” The bigger question, is why did Creach feel the need to challenge a law enforcement officer?
bszottlinger on September 07 at 9:36 p.m.
notanidiot101:
I’ll type slower next time. :)
notanidiot101 on September 07 at 9:39 p.m.
bs…. no need. witch hunt still means witch hunt no matter how slow you type it.
jddavis on September 07 at 9:45 p.m.
Notanidiot—If I am on your property and you confront me about it, I would be comfortable thinking you have a vested interest on me being there even if you didn’t identify yourself as the property owner.
Did the deputy identify himself? or was his UNMARKED patrol car supposed to do it for him? Who said the deputy identified himself…the duputy? Did Rev Creach put the sidearm in his waistband AFTER the deputy identified himself or before? What makes sense here?
misjustice on September 07 at 9:45 p.m.
Alan Creach’s interview with KXLY is up on their web site now. It is about 15 minutes and worth viewing. Alan stated that ( he was told by investigators ) a witness has come forward, who was working in their garage at the time of the fatal shooting, that over heard the confrontation that preceded the homicide.
Alan did not state who the witness is or whether their testimony verified or contradicted the officer’s version of the confrontation.
bszottlinger on September 07 at 9:49 p.m.
Notanidiot101:
No witch hunts here, just calling out mistakes as I see them on both sides. I don’t know any more than you do unless you know more than I do. If I was on a witch hunt would have brought out some things long ago that I’m sure the cops are thinking about and would be very prejudicial.
maria on September 07 at 9:55 p.m.
notanidiot101: Urinidiotindeed
scottm on September 07 at 9:58 p.m.
And with that, we’re freezing this thread overnight.
Have a pleasant tomorrow.
misjustice on September 07 at 9:59 p.m.
notanidiot; Indeed?
Ed Byrnes on September 07 at 10:00 p.m.
Let’s not fight each other when our fellow citizens are being gunned down and abused with such alarming frequency.
Since nobody has explicitly offered any rebuttal to the benefits of direct citizen review of police use of lethal and potentially lethal force will some of you weigh in with ideas about how to get the citizen review process established here in Spokane?
maria on September 07 at 10:00 p.m.
And OBVIOUSIDIOT1O1, How the hell do you know he wasn’t looking at porn??? That was only a suggestion, not an accusation. Derp.
notanidiot101 on September 07 at 10:03 p.m.
jd davis: Plain and simple…..if I believe there is a trespasser on my property, I will call the police and wait inside. If I find a trespasser INSIDE my home, I will shoot him. I will never, ever go outside, with or without a gun. No property is worth my own safety.
bszottlinger on September 07 at 10:05 p.m.
Just wonderful! Now there is another piece of evidence made public that everyone can speculate on. What ever happened to the good old days when you kept detail back so that the suspected bad guy wouldn’t know what you had until the time was right and you could determine if the suspect really was a bad guy. Chief Kirkpatrick in the press conference said that once the case is presented to the prosecutor (Monday) it would all be public, anyone want to bet? There is only one way it could be that I am aware of.