September 9, 2010 in City

Doug Clark: Baton story fails to clear cop’s conduct

Doug Clark The Spokesman-Review

Tags:Brian HirzelDoug ClarkGreenacres Baptist Churchofficer shootingOzzie KnezovichSpokane County Sheriff’s OfficeSpokane Valley Police DepartmentWayne Scott Creach

19 comments on this story so far. Add yours!

fredjames on September 09 at 2:21 a.m.
Did the shooter have to back up to get enough room to fire. He was close enough to club the dead man in the knee and 80 pounds bigger and 20 year younger, and decided to stop clubbing ,put his club back in his club holder, and take the gun out and shoot a perp .I guess the 20 years younger was the reason he could draw his gun faster and kill. I am sure that the last police death 23 years ago of a heart attack is still fresh in the frightened offiers minds. and the other 14 deaths of Spokane officers going back 78 years, this town must be horrible for the police. The dead man, what was he thinking a car on his property at 11 pm with lights out, suspicious behavior. Turns out is was a government official that decided to use private property for public duty. Loitering on private property then killing the property owner for walking outside to see what was going on. Criminal do try to gain control of people,take away their guns, and force them to the ground, prior to killing them. Never mind the guy was killed! Remember what you do in Spokane stays in Spokane, just go to Vegas and have akiller of a time !
Bethany on September 09 at 2:57 a.m.
Absolutely, Doug!
The Creach family has been VERY consistent in their stories regarding the night of the shooting. For the cop’s story to “raise new questions” also raises questions as to the consistency of his story.
When we have had officer-involved shootings in the past, the details have been produced rapidly and there is usually no doubt as to whether the officer was acting out of self-defense, and I do not see why this is being treated as a complicated matter when it really shouldn’t be-that also raises my suspicions, and I suspect it does for others as well.
soccermomsusie on September 09 at 6:25 a.m.
Hey Doug, Why bring the Keebler Elves into this? I know you know where I stand on their immoral hijinx.
Thanks for shedding light onto this story. Your forensics talents are wasted on the paper!
God bless you and I hope any future jury members listen to what you have to say!!
HEAR OUR VOICE!!!!
JohnG on September 09 at 6:40 a.m.
I too have many questions that are not yet answered. It is unfortunate that there was no other witness to this tragic event.
One thing that bothers me is some of the comments that have been made about Scott and his age. 74 years old is not that old especially when one keeps his mind as sharp and clear as Scott did over the years.
I have known Scott for about 9 years and have attended his morning sunday school class and evening bible study class and listened to many of his sermons over the years. Scott had one of the sharpest minds and memories that I have ever seen. He was in no way senile or a fool. He was one of the kindest and most considerate people that I have ever known.
What has happened to Scott is a most unfortunate tragedy and I hope that the truth will eventually be known. He is greatly missed by his church friends and his many friends in the community and we all deserve that the truth be known.
Mr_Bloggy on September 09 at 6:41 a.m.
Why are Clark’s horrible columns published with each line double spaced?
It’s not poetry (au contraire) or song lyrics and I’m guessing it violates some style manual, so why?
Clark is unreadable on his best day and formatting it like this doesn’t subtract from the visual pain his writing creates, it only intensifies it.
Really, what’s the point?
I’m all for speeding up the process of getting through a Clark column not slowing it down.
Paragraph all his false outrage and barely concealed glee over another tragedy he can hack away at for weeks.
I’d rather walk along a nice beach and see all the oil covered seagull carcasses in one big pile.
Then be done with them.
Than one at a time for miles and miles.
Thanks.
lewis8457 on September 09 at 7:08 a.m.
Krem reported the autopsy showed Creach spent time on both knees. How does that fit into all this? we will never know because our police think lying to us protects them.
but in reality it gets them unemployed the tax payers wont allow anymore money for the cops they already make far too much.
Frankly i cant wait for 45 of them to get laid off 45 less chances for someone to die at their hand.
liarsinnews on September 09 at 8:01 a.m.
Doug, you forgot one key ingredient. When Brian Hizel went to Vegas. What goes on in Vegas stays in Vegas.
idahocity on September 09 at 10:06 a.m.
human memory is inherently fallible. the way even two people remember the same event can be completely different. the deputy may be telling the “truth” as he recalls it. it may not make sense but it is not necessarily a lie.
horse_feathers on September 09 at 10:26 a.m.
Lewis, in several stories by the SR you have commented about the knee thing. Was the injuries to his knees fresh or maybe the autopsy is referring to the fact that his knees were worn
” Creach spent time on both knees” after all he worked with plants and he was a preacher. Both professions usually involve a lot of kneeling.
philipgregory on September 09 at 12:27 p.m.
That’s a great summary of the situation and how I read it.
I agree too with “…the vast majority of our officers went into police work … to do right.”
The question that leaves is; Why are so many now ‘busting heads’ and shooting guns instead of using their training and professionalism to de-escalate the situation without violence?
Look at their SWAT training and their militaristic uniforms for a start.
JohnG on September 09 at 12:30 p.m.
Doug Clark:
I would appreciate your response to my question. I responded to Nugget on one of the other stories from the SR and by the time my response was posted the original Nugget post was gone. My response to his posting was a good reply and would have been enlightening to others that read his post.
I don’t think it is appropriate for the SR to let something be posted and then remove it. This is a violation of free speech and letting free speech provide the appropriate response to questions like Nugget posted. If something is objectionable to the SR then it should be edited out before it is allowed to post. Then at least free speech could be violated without others knowing it.
Thank you.
misjustice on September 09 at 12:39 p.m.
JohnG; all persons that post to the SR pages do so under the forum standards and community guidelines which outline the terms of posting. If your posts are being removed, it is due to a violation of the standards.
Ron_the_Cop on September 09 at 1:18 p.m.
Misjustice and John G,
From personal experience the deletion of comments sometimes are not what you would expect from other blogs - re expected etiquette and the S-R’s own standards. I just posted this piece in answer to questions by Zelda and Brad in another thread once Ms. Hatch closed this thread. I’ve probably cut/pasted too much here and this will get deleted too:-)
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/sep/09/sheriff-rues-vacation-flap/?c=189884&comments=1#c189884
Brad and Zelda,
I was going to answer your questions in the first post of Clark’s column but Ms. Hatch has since closed this thread. I’ve noticed that there are comments disappearing again. Having suffered from deletion such in the pasts I will let others question the S-R re this practice.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010…
Zelda regarding Cathedral City you are correct is a suburb of Palm Springs located in Riverside County. There are some high roller types that have mansion there and both Palm Springs and Cathedral City are known for their alternative lifestyles. Yes there are Hispanic gangs in the area. The violence there is a lot less then in South Central and East LA. Perhaps further down in the Coachella Valley there are more significant gang et al related problems. . .
[Brad] Gee you’re now advocating the Governor appoint a special prosecutor (Under WA law this is a judge) who then can empanel a state grand jury).
DAH! I think you’re now coming to realize that Anne Kirkpatrick may be in over her head. Where until recently has Chief Kirkpatrick been? Jury’s out on Sheriff Knezovich. Sheriff Bamonte and Larry Shook have no use for Knezovich. And we all have no use for Steve Tucker re the Savage Case. Fat chance as the potential candidates for the 2012 Governor’s race are jockeying for campaign/financial support in this region now. . .
And riddle me this why has the S-R been so hands off Chief Kirkpatrick on this latest go around? And why does the S-R see such a need to police these threads by deleting posts and closing off debate? Perhaps the serfs may use this social networking tool to share info and eventually storm the Bastille:-)
eagleproducer on September 10 at 11:40 a.m.
Mr. Bloggy: Some good stuff in your latest post, especially the part about the oil soaked birds… classic, dude!
I don’t really care for Clark’s writing style either, it is choppy and comes across as something erupting from a writer’s meeting where all the one liners are tossed into a bingo ball sorter to be later drawn at random and placed even more randomly in the article. Most good writers begin with brainstorming/pre-writing exercises, not use it as their end product.
Now for his band The Trailer Park Girls… that’s for another time.
lewis8457 on September 11 at 8:13 p.m.
feathers I doubt the coroner would have pointed it out to Alan Creach if they weren’t fresh.
UTWY32 on September 13 at 12:53 p.m.
Why didnt creach drop the gun? I just dont get it..When a cop tells you to drop the gun, you dont put it in your waisteband. Of course a cop is still going to feel threatened.
circle8 on September 15 at 1:40 p.m.
To Doug Clark: I do not know how many homicides you have investigated or how many autopsies you have attended but I have done too many of both. A person who dies does not always show evidence of all injuries received at the time of death. The body reacts basically the same but variations are common. I recall one case I investigated wherein a small child (less than 2) was brought to a hospital for treatment. The child was dead on arrival and there was no indication of any trauma to the body. The child had not been treated by any medical personnel e.g. paramedics etc. prior to arrival The autopsy was performed about 7 hours after death. Still there was a total absence of any external trauma. The autopsy showed the child had received a “blow” to the abdominal region which ruptured the duodenum causing massive internal bleeding. The pathologist said it was not uncommon that the injury had not visibly manifested itself prior to the autopsy because death came so soon after the injury.
The fact that Mr. Creach was 74 years old could indicate the quickness in which he reacted to the alleged baton strike to the knee. The fact that a mark was not present could be the result of the timing of his death. Hopefully the Crime Scene Investigation analysis will settle some of the remaining questions. Speculation on the part of the public or a newspaperman is not evidence, only comments. Bias comments taint the investigation and arouse the public needlessly. A complete examination of the body should show any other abrasions that may be connected to a person’s actions e.g. falling to the ground at or near the time of death. Since that information has not been made public the best those NOT directly involved in the investigation can do is SPECULATE. That is usually a waste of time. These type of decisions should be and are based on the evidence. Or as Sgt. Friday used to say “just the facts”. As of right now very few people have those facts and they are, I am sure, looking for more. .
I am not trying to second guess the incident but I don’t believe your article was in the best interest of this case considering your apparent knee jerk comments. That is why some some say “leave it for the experts”. In closing let me add the type of baton used will also come into play. There is a variety of batons available to law enforcement and the materials used vary. The expanding or telescoping type that Hollywood likes to display in films have a small striking surface and the tip (ball) is very hard material similar to a pool ball. The pain is very localized and stings at the point of contact. I would compare it to being struck by a ball bearing from a sling shot. The speed of the strike could determine the size of any welt left at the point of contact. As you said it would not take much considering the age of Mr. Creach.
bszottlinger on September 16 at 9:36 a.m.
Circle8:
I think it is important to note at this point that the information regarding lack of trauma consistent with a baton blow to Mr. Creach’s leg area was released by members of the Creach family and not a law enforcement authority. With all do respect to the family I for one will wait for the autopsy finding to be made public. The Creach family attributes this particular information as well as other information they have released to the investigators. My question to you, someone who is an investigator, is quite simple. Would you, given the high profile nature of this matter provide a family obviously upset and concerned about the investigative process, making themselves readily available to the media, provide that family with specific investigative detail beyond the cause of death?
My position is, that the family when the time is appropriate, has a right to know every little detail regarding their loved ones death. The appropriate time in my mind is when the entire investigation is complete and the public release of detail will not in any way affect statements taken during the investigation. Am I wrong in that regard?
Although I understand the point regarding a lack of evidence on the victims body. I question an analogy to the body of a child under 2. It is my understanding that there can be a distinct difference, primarily due to physical development, of post and anti mortem markings on children, adults, and elderly. My understanding was gained from discussions with several different forensic pathologists regarding evidence found at post mortem examination. Would you agree or disagree?
With respect to the type of baton being utilized by Officer Hirzel, press reports, from law enforcement, have stated the type of baton used was a straight baton which is commonly in use in California, and not a side handle baton. This particular type of baton was also used by Officer Karl Thompson another ex-California Officer in his confrontation with Otto Zehm. The surface area on this type of baton, I believe, is considerably more than the type of baton you describe above. However, and correct me if I am mistaken, regardless of the surface area, depending on the location of the blow (bone area, fatty area, thickness of the skin, etc.), and the type and strength of the blow, at autopsy the ME may or may not find evidence of trauma. I would hope that during the video recorded interview with Officer Hirzel investigators had him describe and demonstrate the type of blow he administered it may help the ME answer some questions which will be asked at trial, whether criminal or civil, concerning his findings.
Somewhat in defense of Mr. Clark, he is utilizing information made public by the family which may or may not be correct, but it is out there.
Brad Szottlinger
garnet87 on September 17 at 7:02 a.m.
Circle8 I am on 325mg aspirin and yes what Alan Creach said about bruising easily on 325mg is true you can bruise easily with just the lightest bump.
Why didn’t Hirzel call for Backup up first before he got out of his vehicle is what I would like to know?
I am related to a former WSP and also an Attorney who use to live in Spokane