Spokane7
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September 9, 2010 in City
Sheriff frustrated by vacation flap
Investigative panel allowed deputy to leave without consulting Knezovich
Spokane County Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich is frustrated and caught off guard by the public reaction to the decision to allow Deputy Brian Hirzel to leave for vacation just hours after he shot and killed a Spokane Valley pastor late last month.
Knezovich acknowledges that everything with his department ultimately is his responsibility. But he believes he’s been unfairly portrayed in the decision to allow Hirzel to leave town before explaining the encounter that resulted in the death of 74-year-old Wayne Scott Creach.
Hirzel “was already on vacation when I found out he was on vacation,” Knezovich said. “How do I un-ring that bell? I could have said bring him back in. But I would have just countermanded everything that the (investigative) team had done. That was not my role in the investigation. My role was to stay out of it and not influence it.”
Hirzel told investigators he fired on Creach after the older man refused an order to get on the ground, and instead reached for his gun in the waistband of his pants. The interview that revealed those details didn’t come until Friday, after Hirzel returned from Las Vegas, more than a week after the shooting.
Knezovich said he spent the day after the Aug. 25 shooting traveling to Spokane from Philadelphia. The next morning, Aug. 27, he received an in-depth briefing about the shooting at Creach’s nursery business, at 14208 E. Fourth Ave.
At the briefing, Knezovich said he first learned that a team in charge of the investigation had allowed Hirzel to leave the day after the shooting to visit his mother in Montana.
The team included troopers from the Washington State Patrol, midlevel Sheriff’s Office supervisors and detectives from the Spokane Police Department – who are heading up the probe as part of an agreement among local law enforcement officials to avoid investigating officers from their own agencies.
Later that same day, Knezovich publicly offered condolences to the Creach family and vowed that the shooting would receive a complete investigation.
“Even at that time, (investigators) were talking about getting the interview done before (Hirzel) went on his second leg of the vacation,” he said.
Then on Aug. 30, Spokane police spokeswoman Officer Jennifer DeRuwe responded to a question about when Hirzel would be interviewed by saying that he had not been made available by the Sheriff’s Office.
Knezovich only then discovered the investigative team allowed Hirzel to travel on to Las Vegas before providing the interview.
Asked if he has since spoken to his midlevel managers about that call, Knezovich replied: “It’s safe to say that decision won’t be made again any time soon.”
Knezovich wouldn’t name those responsible. “It was a group decision. I don’t know who all was in play. I’d hate to mention the wrong person and ruin a career. I’m not into that.”
Alan Creach, son of the slain pastor, said much has been said about the decision to allow Hirzel to go on vacation. But he wants to know what kind of person would continue with vacation plans after such a traumatic event.
“I think we need to look at the mentality of a man who could do that and then go to Las Vegas on top of it,” Creach said. “To me, after something as grave as that, I couldn’t have taken that vacation. I would have thought that will reflect poorly on everybody, including myself. I have just taken from this family and for me to do that would be heartless and cruel.”
Knezovich was reluctant to comment on Hirzel’s decision to continue with his vacation.
“The decision was made and it’s a decision that he is going to have to deal with. When you go through something traumatic, sometimes you are not thinking as clearly,” he said. “Going to visit your mom, I have no issues with that part. As a matter of fact, you would probably want to go visit your mom.”
And the Las Vegas leg of the trip? “Again, that was Brian’s decision. I don’t want to judge it one way or another.”
Knezovich acknowledged that the decision by others in his office hasn’t helped his reputation.
“Let’s face it, being at the top, the buck stops here,” he said. “I hope that people understand that … I regret that the decision was made the way it was. I’m happy the truth is coming out about that. I wasn’t just a sheriff who was, carte blanche, letting (Hirzel) go on vacation because that’s not what happened.”
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liarsinnews on September 09 at 12:45 a.m.
Isn`t anybody concerned as to why Jennifer DeRuwe, the SPD PR lady, was assigned to release stuff about something as horrific as the killing of Pastor Creach while the Chief is sitting on her duff in silence? Makes me think a huttle was called between Chief Anne and Mayor Mary and Assistant Chief Niks who was with his mouth piece, Attorney Rocky Treppiedi both sitting on the side line while Rocky was trying to figure out when to file his law suit against Alan Creach. Nothing, but nothing, would surprise me even though Ozzie`s latest statement came close to it. Buck passing, yup. Ozzie in my opinion, needs to go down the road with Tucker. Ozzie`s silence with the Otto Zehm murder and no opinion about it only a few remarks which made no sense, and now this blunder is too much to be tolerated.
Ron_the_Cop on September 09 at 12:57 a.m.
BTW there is an extensive comment thread in the earlier post of this article:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/sep/08/sheriff-regrets-way-vacation-decision-was-made/
ajsquaredawayjarhead on September 09 at 1:21 a.m.
Just my opinion…
This appears to be a case where the application of excessive force resulted in the unlawful killing of a prominent and well-respected member of the community.
I will dearly miss the weekday morning AM radio broadcasts of Pastor Creach’s gardening tips from “The Plant Farm”.
And now….let the cover-up and felony perjury begin.
A sad day for the citizens of Spokane. A sad day for the United States of America.
dataxman on September 09 at 6:38 a.m.
I am amazed how many people would deny a vacation for this hard working peace officer. The man was tired and needed a break to rest and re-charge. It takes a lot to beat a 74 year old man with a baton and then shoot him in the chest
lewis8457 on September 09 at 6:48 a.m.
Pass the buck is all it has to do with; a real leader stands and takes it. The first part of the press release Kirkpatrick had to deal with covering ozzies butt something about the extreme screw up protocol.
lewis8457 on September 09 at 6:57 a.m.
The real story here is why did Hirzel have Creach on his knees and then let him up so he could shoot him?
Alan Creach told KREM news the autopsy showed Creach spent some time on both knees.
Ozzie instead of whining about your career that is now in the trash bin why don’t you explain to Alan how is dad spent time on his knees and the deputy never said anything like that in his interview that we know of? Instead of protecting your high paid life style how about giving the citizens what they pay for………..the truth.
Liberty_Bell on September 09 at 7:01 a.m.
What a classic statement from the Klan leader, attempting to protect his fellow conspirators?
Knezovich wouldn’t name those responsible. “It was a group decision. I don’t know who all was in play. I’d hate to mention the wrong person and ruin a career. I’m not into that.”
Well here in the United States, WE THE PEOPLE, are into that, with the criminal assistance statutes, for law men who assist a fugative from justice, to flee the crime scene…
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/statutes.htm#section241
Sadbuttrue on September 09 at 7:13 a.m.
“I’d hate to mention the wrong person and ruin a career.”
Yes, let’s make sure no careers get harmed. These are cops, after all. They don’t deserve to have their careers ruined the way, say a pastor’s career and yes his entire day might get ruined if he failed to demonstrate sufficient submission by kneeling down and licking a cop’s boots and be an obedient and fawning leg-humper.
Some ruined careers is precisely, exactly what needs to occur. Right now. This cold-blooded, conscienceless little hitler thug, upon arriving back rested and tanned from his Vegas time-out should have been arrested - ALREADY!! - slapped in handcuffs and his thuggish little a$$ summarily fired.
““It’s safe to say that decision won’t be made again any time soon.”
Oh goody! From now on, cops who breezily gun down a citizen in cold blood might have to wait 48 hours before taking their vacation! That is a grudging acknowledgement of the horrific nature of this entire incident, but an acknowledgement nonetheless.
philipgregory on September 09 at 7:15 a.m.
What kind of professional law enforcement officer, let alone sheriff, lets an officer who just committed a killing to go on vacation without first making a formal statement.
Dan486 on September 09 at 7:17 a.m.
I still do not understand why a phone call before the shooting to Creach, to inform him that a deputy was going to be at the parking area durning the night……This is only one reason why the public does not respect our law enforcement, they have a tough job but then they need more inter-action with the people they are protecting….Thier not the SS………
deacon46 on September 09 at 7:25 a.m.
Real too bad the S feels he is being unfavourable criticized. A man is dead. a life has been taken. Too bad for the police and their Shoot first and ask questions later mentality. We need a special prosecuter, from outside this area, to review this police department (s).
bszottlinger on September 09 at 7:33 a.m.
Ron_the_Cop:
I hope you don’t take to much offense to this, there are some great people involved in the California Criminal Justice System. But when I read the morning news I noticed a name I recognized from a past life who was employed in the California Criminal Justice System several years ago. What is with the migration of California CJ people to this area? (Hirzel, Thompson) The only reason I bring this up is because it does have to do with the issue of a police officers veracity and some other issues which are in question here.
I don’t know what is in the public record. But I do believe there is something. I face an ethical dilemma about posting anything about it, you however would not. Get back in the saddle and see what you can find.
Brad
Mr_Bloggy on September 09 at 7:34 a.m.
Does anybody actually believe Ozzy’s statement that he didn’t know? I would bet money his underlings texted or emailed or called him to get the okay. No way would they put themselves out like this. Ozzy’s refusal to name any of his mid-managers is just to maintain his plausible deniability. I’m guessing emails in the SO are subject to public disclosure requests.
bszottlinger on September 09 at 7:39 a.m.
dickadams:
We are all hoping that the proposed police department budget cuts (30+ officers) will force Officer DeRuwe back on the beat.
Ron_the_Cop on September 09 at 7:43 a.m.
Actually good question Mr. Bloggy. Yes they should be available via a PDR filed with the County. Just go to their website. The forms are posted there.
Sadbuttrue on September 09 at 7:47 a.m.
“What is with the migration of California CJ people to this area? (Hirzel, Thompson).”
Because the bad California cops have a reputation for being ruthless thugs and local law enforcement loves that. It fulfills their steamy little-boy dreams of grandeur of driving around in Greenacres, pretending like they are in the South Central ‘hood, ever ready to crack some skulls and lay some hurt on the crips. With the invasion of Californians, similarly they invent fantasies of rampant gang activity to justify their bloated salaries, their black battle dress uniforms, their automatic weaponry, their war-like tactical doctrines, and the demeaning and insulting way they get away with treating innocent civilians.
One can sense that all of the above went into the senseless murder of the pastor. I can hear it now. Maybe Vegas-the-cop thought, given his shirtlessness, that the pastor was a ‘blood on a drug-fueled rampage? Cops have to make split-second decisions in these situations, since after all protection of their own life is their highest priority.
And every cop in the Spokane County has it fresh on their mind the last tragic time that a police officer died in the line of duty 23 years ago. It is a grim reminder of the high-stakes dangerousness of their occupation, given that the last death on the line of duty was an officer who overdosed on doughnuts and had a heart attack at the gym.
lewis8457 on September 09 at 7:53 a.m.
why hasn’t the SR reported what Alan told Krem that autopsy showed his father spent time on both knees?
That really knocks the baton story out of the park.
JohnG on September 09 at 8:10 a.m.
A question for someone that knows.
I thought patrol cars had an audio recorder that constantly was recording. Is this not true? If it is true, then where is that recording? It would provide some very good evidence as to the truth of this whole tragedy. I have seen no mention of this.
Albert on September 09 at 8:17 a.m.
Vito Corleone, i.e. “Don Corleone” coined a well remembered phrase : “Nothing personal - strictly business”.
idahocity on September 09 at 8:20 a.m.
there are quite a few questions i have but the two main are about policy. policy is not law. is the policy that the sheriffs department employs in harmony with the law of washington and the U.S. or is it for expediency. Ada counnty idaho in the early 80’s had an unlawful policy of treatment to certain undesirables in custody. the only thing that forced them to change that illegal policy was to initiate so many lawsuits and win enough judgments that no insurance commpany would offer them affordable coverage.
the second issue i have is over testing. are these deputies tested for things like steroids which can cause brain damage and hyper aggressive behavior? also, they also given psycological evaluations before they are hired?
we need to have a look as a community at these policies and see if we are comfortable with them.
misjustice on September 09 at 8:28 a.m.
((Dan486 on September 09 at 7:17 a.m. I still do not understand why a phone call before the shooting to Creach, to inform him that a deputy was going to be at the parking area durning the night……))
While they’re at it, they need to call ALL people within a 2 block radius so everyone will know the police are going to patrol their neighborhood & MIGHT stop in front of/or on their property.
Why stop at just Mr. Creach? Call everyone in the vicinity so no one will be surprised about patrols in the area. Yes, that should take care of the problem. What? Not enough employees to make those calls? Wow!!! That’s the fault of LE also.
Sadbuttrue on September 09 at 8:47 a.m.
“I thought patrol cars had an audio recorder that constantly was recording. Is this not true? If it is true, then where is that recording? It would provide some very good evidence as to the truth of this whole tragedy. I have seen no mention of this.”
That is a very good question. In an incredible percentage of the time, particularly right at the point when the video is capturing police red-handed in serious misconduct, the video camera “malfunctions.” Just recently, when some cops somewhere in the US decided to beat within an inch of his life a citizen for the crime of talking on his cellphone during a traffic stop, the camera “malfunctioned” by panning away from the beating. When the beating was completed, the camera “malfunctioned” again by panning back in for a closeup.
Cops buy their video cameras from a top-secret facility that must deliberately produce video cameras that “malfunction” on a truly mind-boggling scale, considering that even the cheapest Chinese-made dollar store cameras are far more reliable. The problem is, there are now thousands of bad cop videos on the internet that are systematically bringing to light the abject dishonesty, brutality and corruption of modern-day law enforcement due to the advent of the ubiquitous cellphone camera.
This places the police in quite a dilemma, given their constantly “malfunctioning” video cameras: how can you continue to commit perjury believably in court when your sworn testimony contradicts the citizen-operated cellphone video recording?
The police have quickly solved that dilemma by arresting citizens for filming them and charging them with felonies!
MrMaleeah on September 09 at 8:57 a.m.
This is an unbelievable tragedy for are entire community. Are Sheriff is not at the wheel. His deputies get upset and throw the rule book out the window when there COMMANDS ARE NOT RESPECTED.. GET ON THE GROUND IN THE DIRT FACE FIRST!!!!! I DONT CARE WHAT TIME IT IS…GET ON THE GROUND!!!!! Its not a crime to own a gun Mr Sheriff, Its not a crime to defend yourself or your property, Mr Sheriff… Oh yeah and lets see how many times did Pastor Creach point his gun at him,,, lets see,,, NONE !!!! Tell you what,, you through your gun down on the dirt and rocks,,, What did he do,, put it in his pants,, Now theres a threat!!! oh Yeah.. GET ON THE GROUND !!!!! GET ON THE GROUND!!! NO,, OK Well WHAM HOWS TAHT FEEL OLD MAN AS HE HITS THE PASTOR ON HIS LEG!!!! STILL NOT ENOUGH<< OK WELL HOW BOUT THIS… BANG…. I warned him to get on the ground,,, That will teach him to mess with me… Hey you sticking around for donuts and coffee so we can cover this up????? Na,, I am headed out of town on Vacation to party and unwind a bit.. I will deal with the losers family when I get back….
SpokaneIsFun on September 09 at 9:18 a.m.
This whole article tells me the Sheriff is worried.
“Hirzel “was already on vacation when I found out he was on vacation,” Knezovich said. “How do I un-ring that bell? I could have said bring him back in. But I would have just countermanded everything that the (investigative) team had done. That was not my role in the investigation. My role was to stay out of it and not influence it.”
BS- This officer was just involved in a HOMICIDE. Every officer knows that within 2days they are expected to give a taped statement regarding the criminal side. Then the administrative interview begins. The reason the blogs continue is the public knows this whole thing STINKS. It is interesting the Spokane Police Chief won’t step in the dog doo…
The Sheriff saying he was in Philadelphia and didn’t know is weak… He should have kept his mouth shut and when he learned of this shooting turned the entire situation over to the Spokane Police per the protocol.
mikewsu on September 09 at 9:35 a.m.
Leadership is a bunch of idiots and it trickles right down to Officer Vegas.
JohnG on September 09 at 9:44 a.m.
I too have many questions that are not yet answered. It is unfortunate that there was no other witness to this tragic event.
One thing that bothers me is some of the comments that have been made about Scott and his age. 74 years old is not that old especially when one keeps his mind as sharp and clear as Scott did over the years.
I have known Scott for about 9 years and have attended his morning sunday school class and evening bible study class and listened to many of his sermons over the years. Scott had one of the sharpest minds and memories that I have ever seen. He was in no way senile or a fool. He was one of the kindest and most considerate people that I have ever known.
What has happened to Scott is a most unfortunate tragedy and I hope that the truth will eventually be known. He is greatly missed by his church friends and his many friends in the community and we all deserve that the truth be known.
SpokaneIsFun on September 09 at 10:23 a.m.
Let me clarify something. I am a big believer is law enforcement (Sheriff and the police department). I believe there is no other job harder that one having to make that ultimate decision to take a life. I am only frustrated that a standard protocol wasn’t followed which allowed for the taking of the officer’s statement. Unless I am wrong and their protocol doesn’t spell this out. I want to see the community united behind law enforcement because without this we are all in trouble.
eagleproducer on September 09 at 10:39 a.m.
In my attempt to lay claim as bard of these threads I offer my latest:
There once was a Sheriff named Ozzie
Who over donuts and coffee
Let Hirzel go free, then says, “It’s not me”
When the reaction became too saucy.
eagleproducer on September 09 at 10:42 a.m.
dick adams: I don’t have any problem with the PR flacks doing what is essentially their job. My problem with DeRuwe is that she isn’t all that articulate or photogenic, two qualities inherent to good mouthpieces these days.
Sadbuttrue on September 09 at 10:45 a.m.
“I want to see the community united behind law enforcement because without this we are all in trouble.”
We are already in trouble because present-day law enforcement is a rogue, power-intoxicated collection of vicious killers. And this community definitely SHOULD NOT unite “behind law enforcement” until at the very minimum drastic, draconian changes in personnel, training and supervision. The murder of this pastor demands wholesale firings through the chain of commands, the immediate arrest and vigorous prosecution of the violent psychopathic punk that tortured and murdered the pastor, and sweeping changes in training. These cops should never be allowed to view us as the enemy, and their training needs to be strict and severe in ruthlessly eliminating the mindset that condones a cop beating and murdering an innocent civilian for not demonstrating instantaneous eager leg-humping, boot licking subservience at the Officer’s command.
Then the community will unite behind law enforcement, when law enforcement has justifiably earned such support. But not right now.
JohnG on September 09 at 11:01 a.m.
Nugget:
I not only knew Scott as my pastor but he was a good personal friend.
There is no way that Scott had any Aryan Nation leanings and in fact I never heard him mention anything about them or make any comment that could be associated with them. Scott was a most honorable man and had respect for all men including policemen. Scott beleived that the Bible is our only source for truth and lived his life according to those teachings.
I started putting my comments into this system to try and correct many of the falsehoods that have been placed out here. It is very unfortunate that so many of the people on these comment forums didn’t know Scott personally. If that were the case, there would not be so many foolish comments made without any facts.
JohnG on September 09 at 11:06 a.m.
Does someone keep eliminating comments that they don’t like on this forum? I just answered some questions that Nugget made and by the time I responded, which was within 30 minutes, his comments were gone. Where is free speach? Does it not exist on these forums?
JohnG on September 09 at 11:13 a.m.
I posted a question earlier asking if there were audio or video recorders installe in patrol cars. I also asked the sheriff’s department and they responded that none of their patrol cars have either audio or video installed in their patrol cars.
Would this not be a fairly economical thing to do so that the real facts of these type of incidents would be known? Audio recorders would definitely be economical.
andrewz on September 09 at 11:20 a.m.
Yes, a comment mentioning the Aryan Nations was taken down. Thank you for posting your comment clearing that up.
SLEO on September 09 at 11:38 a.m.
Dear Sheriff Kenezovich,
I am so sorry to hear that you are frustrated and feeling falsely accused. But as you youself have stated, “The buck stops with you.”
Just a few short hours after shooting a private propety owner on his own property - just a few feet from his own bedroom window, and within the hearing of his wife, Deputy Hurzel flew away to see his mother and then on the Las Vegas for a few days of fun.
Now you are on the hot seat. And no, we certainly don’t want to endanger any jobs by placing the blame where it belongs.
While I have great respect for your position, I am appalled by this new turn of events. The local Sheriff whining that he is frustrated because of the blame he is receiving for a long list of errors and misjudgments.
While I may not be the wisest person in the world, I learned a long time ago that when I make a mistake if I just admint my mistake and promise to do better in the future, it goes a long way in restoring the faith of those around me.
I think it bears mentioning that in addition to the heartache and grief of burying their husband and father, during the most difficult of circumstances, the Creach family is also dealing with a good deal of frustration - misdirection of truth, insensitivity and a lack of good answers.
So Mr. Sheriff, MAN UP - you took the job, now take the frustration.
We continue to thank our community for their love and the HUGE outpouring of condolences. We also thank the investigative team who has spent so much time with us and who we know are working hard to get to the truth of this matter.
Sadbuttrue on September 09 at 11:55 a.m.
“Would this not be a fairly economical thing to do so that the real facts of these type of incidents would be known? Audio recorders would definitely be economical.”
Yes, they are easy and cheep, but in nearly all cases they completely contradict the officer’s sworn testimony. Cops have a vested interest in you to believing their testimony without contradiction. They are adamantly opposed to the “real facts” coming out.
One of the reforms taking place in many states due to this widespread problem - i.e. willful cop perjury - is a movement to exclude unrecorded confessions of the Defendant in any court proceeding. I would submit that any unrecorded traffic offense should automatically be dismissed. Given the magnitude of the deception that the law enforcement profession has wreaked on society, I would go even further and argue that a cop cannot testify to any fact that is not supported by videotaped evidence.
andjusticeforall on September 09 at 12:11 p.m.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/SpokanePoliceShootnowquestionslater
philipgregory on September 09 at 12:22 p.m.
What’s that old saying? ‘The buck stops here’
What Spokane city/county need first are different leaders.
misjustice on September 09 at 12:44 p.m.
&justiceforall; what is that facebook link about? I clicked on the link and it didn’t work correctly…
Ron_the_Cop on September 09 at 1:09 p.m.
Brad and Zelda,
I was going to answer your questions in the first post of Clark’s column but Ms. Hatch has since closed this thread. I’ve noticed that there are comments disappearing again. Having suffered from deletion such in the pasts I will let others question the S-R re this practice.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/sep/05/ozzie-out-of-character-on-this-one/
Zelda regarding Cathedral City you are correct is a suburb of Palm Springs located in Riverside County. There are some high roller types that have mansion there and both Palm Springs and Cathedral City are known for their alternative lifestyles. Yes there are Hispanic gangs in the area. The violence there is a lot less then in South Central and East LA. Perhaps further down in the Coachella Valley there are more significant gang et al related problems.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coachella_Valley
Indio which has it’s own police department has it’s share of gang violence. As for officers killed in the line of duty I don’t recall any from Cathedral City and or Palm Springs in the last thirty years. I could be wrong. The Riverside Sheriff that svs the unincorporated areas lost two officers in an ambush following a domestic violence incident near Cabazon.
During this time frame Riverside PD lost six officers by firearms. Two of these were by ambushes where two officers were killed - Christensen & Teel and Doty and Trust. There were other Riverside Sheriffs that were killed as well in the west end of the County. One depputy I went to the police academy with was shot and killed after a domestic violence incident in the Temecula Area.
Brad I will check with some of my sources re your gut feeling that Hirzel left perhaps on less than favorable terms. I see he was a plaintiff with several other officers with their association against the City of Cathedral City. I don’t know if this means anything. We had officers suing the City of Riverside over various issues from time to time. Movement of So Cal officers north is not uncommon but they generally went up state and some into Oregon. Most that have come to this area have come to retire here.
Gee you’re now advocating the Governor appoint a special prosecutor (Under WA law this is a judge) who then can empanel a state grand jury).
DAH! I think you’re now coming to realize that Anne Kirkpatrick may be in over her head. Where until recently has Chief Kirkpatrick been? Jury’s out on Sheriff Knezovich. Sheriff Bamonte and Larry Shook have no use for Knezovich. And we all have no use for Steve Tucker re the Savage Case. Fat chance as the potential candidates for the 2012 Governor’s race are jockeying for campaign/financial support in this region now.
Both former Sheriff Bamonte and I have been strongly advocating the appointment of a special prosecutor and grand jury to clean house here in Spokane - Zehm and Savage are only the tip of the iceberg that stems from the systemically corrupt government that can’t or won’t ensure best practices of our law enforcement agencies. The silence has been deafening. This is why I will be actively campaign against returning Tucker to office. This is the one local office that stands a chance of cleaning up the corruption in this area.
Perhaps others will not now be so inclined to dismiss out of hand what Sheriff Bamonte and I have been trying to tell the citizens of Spokane for the last several years.
And riddle me this why has the S-R been so hands off Chief Kirkpatrick on this latest go around? And why does the S-R see such a need to police these threads by deleting posts and closing off debate? Perhaps the serfs may use this social networking tool to share info and eventually storm the Bastille:-)
zelda on September 09 at 2:01 p.m.
Thanks for the info on Cathedral City, Ron. Doesn’t sound atypical for a city in S. CA.
Stepping back a bit, I’d say Spokane has a huge problem on its hands with the Creach killing. Take one police department that citizens don’t trust (for good reasons), add it to a sheriff’s department with some really bad “optics” as they say in PR, mix in a prosecutor that’s pretty much a laughing stock and the outrage grows exponentially. It’s like mixing chlorine, Drano and ammonia. Corrosion of public trust to the nth degree.
As for censoring comments, I have to say that what people are saying on KREM and KXLY makes the S-R threads read like a meeting of the Bloomsbury Group. Whoever moderates those discussions must have to go home each night and take a Silkwood shower.
Pat O'Leary on September 09 at 2:06 p.m.
Ron the Cop: you have to understand that the Cowlses have run this city for so many years that even their employees feel that they fall under the “divine right of kings” rules….or possibly it might be considered that this is their burden in life, to keep the hoi polloi in line. “We will determine what is important for the readership.”
bszottlinger on September 09 at 2:47 p.m.
Ron_the_Cop:
I don’t know anything about Hirzel background.
Zelda:
I think we all know that this case is going to end up in Mr. Tuckers lap and we will have to wait some time for the outcome. I would assume he will interact with his staff who will provide him input in the decision make process. I hope he understands that this case may be reviewed in a civil litigation and even perhaps at the Federal level. That having been said, I hope he takes great care in making sure there is no way anyone could call into question the independence of the office and staff as it relates to dealing with the veracity of law enforcement officers.
Brad
misjustice on September 09 at 2:54 p.m.
Does anyone think that Tucker will make this an election issue/campaign talking point?
spokelooneh on September 09 at 2:55 p.m.
If and ONLY if the cop’s mother was on her death bed should he have been allowed to go see her, AND THEN COME RIGHT BACK, not go on vacation to Vegas or any other damn place.
Should be SOP and plain common sense.
Hirzel is going to be on paid leave for quite a spell, plenty of time and money to go on vacation.
lewis8457 on September 09 at 2:55 p.m.
I know two of my posts disappeared no matter Creach is still dead and the cop is still free nothing has changed.
i like the KXLY site the cops really attack with a vengence showing their true colors.
misjustice on September 09 at 3:00 p.m.
Lewis, I’ve noticed the same thing on the Krem2 site also!
bszottlinger on September 09 at 3:10 p.m.
Ron_the_Cop:
The way I read the statute. The Gov. can appoint a special prosecutor who in turn must receive the okay from the majority of local Superior Court Justices. I offered it up because it does represent a method by which Mr. Tucker, if he requested the Governor do so, could wash his hands of the situation and perhaps provide the community at least a modicum of assurance the matter is being handled by an independent fact finding body made up of 12 citizens. It would also take the investigative agencies off the hook to a certain extent.
As I said before a GJ is a secret process so the public won’t be happy with that., and they do take time.
A Grand Jury Review of Officer Involved Shootings take place all over the country, including California I believe.
Brad
bszottlinger on September 09 at 3:25 p.m.
Ron_the_Cop:
Right from day one I have said Kirkpatrick is in over her head!
Brad
notanidiot101 on September 09 at 3:35 p.m.
wow what has happened to all of you anti- police and/or anti-governent people that has you feeling this way?? Truth be known, you don’t care about Mr. Creach. All you care about is talking crap about police. I know I have never been on the other end of the law and I don’t speak this way. What have you done???
notanidiot101 on September 09 at 3:35 p.m.
Oh yeah!! Anyone that thinks they can do a better job STEP UP
notanidiot101 on September 09 at 3:42 p.m.
I guess you can only have “freedon of speech”, as long as the media agreees with you. If you are going to open this up to people who have opinions or facts, then open it up. Quit sensoring this and deleting what you don’t like.
Nugget on September 09 at 3:43 p.m.
Well, they censored me again! Unbiased reporting? I don’t think so.
addyh on September 09 at 3:51 p.m.
Nuggets, we will continue to take down any posts that violate our forum standards, which includes defamatory comments. As a news organization, we think there is value in trying to maintain a reasonable level of decorum in the comment fields. It’s no different than the standards we apply to letters to the editor — except that we don’t require you to sign your name.
maria on September 09 at 3:53 p.m.
Now they’re looking for witnesses to squelch.
misjustice on September 09 at 3:53 p.m.
@ not; I’m not anti-cop or anti-government. I didn’t know Mr. Creach but that doesn’t preclude my thinking that what happened to him wasn’t right. Nor does it prevent me from calling the actions of Viva Las Vegas and his boss into question. Suggesting that anyone which criticizes law enforcement is criminal or has had a run in with the law is a false analogy and a weak attempt to cast aspersions on anyone that questions authority.
@ nugget; If a commentor’s post is removed it is because it violates the forum standards and/or community guidelines. If you don’t like the rules, I guess you could start your own blog or newspaper and make your own rules.
misjustice on September 09 at 3:55 p.m.
@ maria; do tell! What info do you have?
maria on September 09 at 3:55 p.m.
See the new headline
ChefGus/ John Olsen on September 09 at 3:58 p.m.
Two Things….
1. Cathedral City is a fine place to live… I have lived there in the winters for some months… in the past…. It is “easier” if one speaks Spanish, the best store in the area for fresh veggies and interesting produce is the large Mercado…. it is mostly populated by elderly folks like me in the winters… inside their mobile homes…. and there is a fair sized Canadian contingent through the six months they can visit/live in the United States and not lose their health care.
2. I have been on these Review blogs for some Years… and have not been censored even once….. even when my “content” goes against the editorial policies of the paper. Censoring likely is happening to folks for rude/innapropriate or ad hominem attacks on those of us that are here..
#. If you don’t like it here go over to Huckleberries On Line… it is much more tolerant of vitriol and vehemence.. John
409 on September 09 at 4:47 p.m.
According to Hirzel and the dispatcher records all of this happened in approximately “10 seconds”
a. Mr. Creach approaches and Officer Hirzel notices.
b. Officer Hirzel Notices Mr. Creach has a gun at 30 ft.
c. Officer Hirzel Calls for back-up (5 Seconds)
d. Officer commands Mr. Creach to drop Weapon 5 or 6 times (practice to yourself Saying drop your weapon 5 or 6 times in under 10 seconds. I bet you can’t do it! giviing time for Mr. Creach to respond) (20 seconds Minimum)
e. Mr. Creach puts gun in waistband and approaches another 18 ft….. Approx 2 steps per second (9 seconds)
f. Officer Hirzel commands Mr. Creach to back away from the vehicle and get on the ground and then exits the vehicle. (10 Seconds)
g. Officer Hirzel grabs baton & clubs Mr. Creach in the knee (5 seconds)
h. Officer Hirzel holsters baton, grabs gun and shoots Mr. Creach (5 seconds)
i. Officer Hirzel calls to report shot fired & requests medical assistance. (5 seconds)
I think I have been generous on the “Role Play” of the time lapse of this incident According to the Police and Dispatch. I count over a minute of interaction.
SOMEBODY IS A LIAR.
Nugget on September 09 at 5:14 p.m.
((we will continue to take down any posts that violate our forum standards, which includes defamatory comments))
Bloggers can make any defamatory comment about the officer involved in this shooting but when a person comments about the person being shot as being a member of a not so popular group of radicals, you think that is defamatory? Sorry, I call that censorship.
Officer Hirzel has been called many defamatory names & you do nothing about that. You don’t think that’s wrong? The SR is trying to make Mr. Creach out to be a martyr & Officer Hirzel to be the bad out of control cop.
It is not reporting that you are doing. It is sensationalizing a situation to sell papers & to stir up the public.
misjustice on September 09 at 6:01 p.m.
The public was “stirred up” by the homicide of Mr. Creach at the hands of an officer of the law; not by the SR. The articles written by the SR, reporting on the homicide, have been well written and unbiased, IMHO.
The blog forum attached to the articles are a way for readers to post their thoughts, raise questions, engage each other and the SR staff, and sometimes to even vent; not much different than a letter to the editor other than the ability to interact in almost real time. More similar to the “public square” or to visiting with a neighbor over the backyard fence.
Nugget, you may object to some of the blog posts and what you deem as an attack on Hirzel but that dialogue falls within the forum standards, if it didn’t it would get removed just like your posts did.
People in this community are outraged, and rightfully so given the track record of some of the members of the police department. And given what we DO know so far about the latest citizen’s homicide at the hands of the police. That we are venting here, instead of storming the Bastille, is a GOOD thing.
addyh on September 09 at 6:04 p.m.
We have taken down many defamatory posts concerning the police as well, in this thread and others. As I noted in a separate thread the other day, if you see something you believe violates our forum standards, please help us out by flagging it as inappropriate.
Albert on September 09 at 7:47 p.m.
Oh Addy….you just don’t have a sense of humor :) :) - just kidding.
I sincerely believe that we are all frustrated with the ongoing abuse by “law enforcement” and our inability to see any remedy to these acts of brutality. I for one, have completely given up on the idea that there are “good cops” in our community. I haven’t seen one yet, nor do we read, or hear of any “random acts of kindness” by these “public servants”. Unfortunately there is no end in sight for this citizen frustration. Until such time as our “elected officials” step up to the plate and represent “We The People”, then these acts of violence will continue unabated. This is pretty much the facts as I see them. Look on the bright side, we still have Pig Out In The Park, or The Pig Races at the fair. I plan to go and watch these critters this year - great article and should be a great laugh.
Addy & Andrew, I for one appreciate your help in maintaining a degree of civility in these articles. Thank you!
ChefGus/ John Olsen on September 10 at 5:48 a.m.
No regular human being I know goes out with a .45 Cal weapon in his pajama’s in the middle of the night to “protect” his property…..Particularly one with seminary trainining and a call to serve a church congregation. The “math” being done on the sequence of events, as described is likely the actual time lapse and adds up to /?? Seconds”? A weapon discharge, particularly in a stressful situation and even with adequate training tends to blend your sense of many things.
I carry a little pocket recorder that i can turn on any time i wish, and my friends know that…. and i carry a camera that has a video capability, as well as voice capture… that makes more sense to me than waving my sidearm at anyone… again, it is useful to remember that a pistol is “always” loaded… and if it comes out of it’s holster, one had best be prepared to use it…( a round in the chamber)…
An unmarked car owned by the police is recognizable at three blocks… so there is a possibility that the dead pastor knew he was agressing on a Sheriff, and his own adrenalin put him in a deadly confrontation with “authority” as an Alpha Male… not recognizing or copying that in this situation the “Alpha” was the officer, with training, and equipment to best most any agressor.
Lot’s of what if’s here… but a loaded gun, out of its holster is presumed to be “hot”… and presents a life threat. That is what our law enforcement folks are faced with every day.
I’m wondering if the Pastor had a “Concealed Carry” permit?? and or any training with his choice of weapons on a regular basis? Vigilante’ justice is a slippery slope. John
D Statler on September 10 at 4:22 p.m.
Hey Albert !! I just wanted to let you know we have a new resource officer at West Valley High School. I would like you and other critical writers out here to meet him. We do still have GOOD, CARING police in Spokane. He has been with us three days now and has made himself very visable and available to the kids and staff at WVHS.I truly admire a police officer that tries to do the right things.Dressing like a sheriff and not a BLACKWATER THUG, goes along way to making the kids and public comfortable with them.It may also help the police officers themselfs remember who they are and represent. The problem lies with the GUILD protecting the bad ones.Then a weak Sheriff ( OZZIE) not willing to stand up for the public.A Prosecutors office ( TUCKER) that prosecutes only who they want and not necessarily who they should & BULLSEYE,a recipe for public disaster.
Please don’t write off all our good Sheriffs yet ! The good ones are outnumbered and affraid to speak up to their peers.New leadership in November might help us address this issue. I just wanted to let everyone know there is atleast ONE good Sheriff left in Spokane County !
lewis8457 on September 11 at 8:32 a.m.
yes i said Dewrue looked fat so they took that post down, big secret.
Idiot101 we all care about Creach other wise none of us would be here. maybe we should be discussing Mr. Creach life and successes but you know quite frankly that will just upset us more.
you post what you want i will post what i want and SR will take it down, if we hit a nerve.
Go over to KXLY they have far better coverage and you i can argue with the piglets all you want.
Patriot61 on September 11 at 2:00 p.m.
Wow, I see you have all tried and convicted Hirzel. What are we waiting for? Lets ship him to Walla Walla and be done with it. Who needs an expensive trial or investigation when you all can simply convict off statements and press releases? Oh and lets not forget ALL cops are murderous and corrupt. Those of you who are commenting in generalities sicken me. You all wonder why these organizations act in the manner they do after such an event? It’s because of the very comments being made here. So many of you are all willing to convict the officer of wrong doing without all the facts. Many of you assume because you don’t get all the facts right away that this somehow implies that the agency is corrupt. Alot of faulty reasoning being applied here. I wonder, is it possible the officer reacted as he was trained? Did he believe his life was in danger? Of course all of you could determine just by looking at a firearm in the dark if a round is chambered or not right? Oh, and all of you would shoot to wound rather kill when you felt your life was in danger right? I say again those of you that are making claims against ALL who serve, you sicken me. It makes me wonder why anyone would want to be in law encorcement in a community so willing to pass judgement.
RValenzCatCityPD8702 on September 13 at 1:50 p.m.
Wow, you guys make me sick. You sit in your secure surroundings, not thinking twice of how & who provides that security until something happens. Then of course it’s fair game on the “Thin Blue Line”.
As for the “Ron the cop guy”, get your facts straight. Cathedral City & the Coachella Valley, had a high influx of paroled hard core LA county gang members, including Crips, Bloods, Mexican Mafia & others you’re prob fortunate to never come across. But we did. And Brian performed his duties as professionally as anyone of us, without prejudice or malice. In fact, Brian was usually the one providing humor in tense moments. There’s not many people I could say I trusted to have my back in a critical situation, but Brian would be one of my first choices.
Also “Ron” Palm Springs PD, Cathedral City PD & Riverside County SO have all sufered an in the line of duty loss in less than the 30 yr window you give, although there have been several attempts on officers lives. The migration of So Ca cops was mostly due to our desire to raise our families in areas we could work and live and feel that we could leave that all behind & just enjoy some peace.
About the only one who seems to get it, or be non judgemental is Patriot.
As for my friend Brian, I wish you the best, it gets better buddy.