September 24, 2010 in City

State patrol officer shoots pregnant woman

Meghann M. Cuniff The Spokesman-Review

Tags:crack cocainedrugspolice shootingspregnancyQuad City Drug Task ForceshootingsSpokane County Sheriff’s OfficeWashington State Patrol

Meghann Cuniff photo

Spokane police investigate at an apartment complex at Lincoln and Sinto where a Washington State Patrol detective-sergeant shot and injured a woman Friday morning, Sept. 24, 2010. Police say the woman’s injuries are not life-threatening.
(Full-size photo)

149 comments on this story so far. Add yours!

John_Fever_Richmond on September 24 at 11:31 a.m.
SCSO just needs to tie up all of those nasty “loose ends” - i.e. witnesses who might contradict whatever tale the officer concocts! The LEO of this region have got that wild-west - it’s us or them mentality! This one however will be WAY easier to cover-up though seeing as the “perp” is already a wanted fugitive … … hell that should make it o.k. to just shoot ‘em on sight!!! LOL!!!
hawken on September 24 at 11:36 a.m.
Many police shootings are TOTALLY justified… Whether or not this is the case with this shooting, or it turns out to be HIGHLY SUSPECT as the other, recent, police shootings I have been totally critical of….. remains to be seen. Therefore, I will withhold further comment until we learn more. I will be watching this shooting incident closely. Hopefully, the rest of you will do the same.
misjustice on September 24 at 11:40 a.m.
Another one?
SpokaneLiberal on September 24 at 11:47 a.m.
Exactly how many officer shootings have there been here in the last year? (Justified or not)?
philipgregory on September 24 at 11:48 a.m.
Good grief! It’s time to take their guns away!
Gato on September 24 at 11:49 a.m.
What? You want me to withhold comment until actual facts are available? That’s outrageous.
Clearly this kind of censorship is part of a socialist fascist anti-America agenda promulgated by illegal aliens.
I shall continue frothing, undeterred by your pro-reality bias.
SpokaneLiberal on September 24 at 11:49 a.m.
Good god, when you search officer shooting on Spokesman it returns over 3100 articles (although not all are actual officer shootings.)
misjustice on September 24 at 11:54 a.m.
Was the person that was shot the person named in the warrant? [ I’m not implying that anyone named in a warrant deserves to be shot.]
madscientist on September 24 at 12:04 p.m.
spokaneliberal, how about how many shootings in this past 2 months !! this is crazy! everyday some one is shot at by the cops.
GoYankees on September 24 at 12:14 p.m.
What kind of source does not know the woman’s name or age, but knows she’s due October 4th? Does this seem odd to anyone else?
rpmarp on September 24 at 12:18 p.m.
Have some of you folks ever considered that there wouldn’t be any of these incidents if there were’t so many a-holes out there breaking the law and defying the law enforcers?
westerly on September 24 at 12:19 p.m.
Hey folks, this is “SpookyHollow”, Wa.!!
andjusticeforall on September 24 at 12:20 p.m.
well, hate to say it but i was wondering who the “victim of the day” would be today, & looked for an article about who was shot today since its almost a daily thing for the police to shoot someone..armed or not (not saying anything about whether or not it was justified) just saying…its become a regular thing in spokane county now….sad but true
andjusticeforall on September 24 at 12:27 p.m.
well bob m…i guess that justifies the police murdering a handicap gentleman
andrewz on September 24 at 12:31 p.m.
@SpokaneLiberal, That’s a question I imagine a lot of people are asking. A quick search of our archives turns up six officer-involved shootings in the Spokane area within the past 12 months.
Wayne Scott Creach (fatal, August); Sean P. Houlihan (not fatal, September); Todd White (fatal, March); Michael E. Young (not fatal, December); Donald J. Lafavor (not fatal, November); David J. Glidden (not fatal, October).
SpokaneLiberal on September 24 at 12:35 p.m.
I count at least 5 in the last 6 months!!
SpokaneLiberal on September 24 at 12:37 p.m.
Thanks Andrew, I guess one of the ones I just counted was a little far away in Oakanogan which I didn’t realize since I was just skimming and it was in the CITY section.
misjustice on September 24 at 12:38 p.m.
The witnesses’ accounts contradict each other. Was she shot under the stairs or in her bed?
hcamper on September 24 at 12:39 p.m.
I am pretty much convinced the SR pays law enforcement to shoot citizens - it sure sells papers.
SpokaneLiberal on September 24 at 12:40 p.m.
Plus this one makes 7 in the last 12.
zelda on September 24 at 12:43 p.m.
This is something for the statisticians to ponder while the rest of us keep our heads down and run for cover. Might be a Poisson distribution. [look it up]
Or maybe the Lakewood PD murders have so disturbed LE in Washington state that they caused a collective freak-out among cops. Kind of a PTSD-by-association syndrome.
misjustice on September 24 at 12:48 p.m.
With all of the recent officer involved shootings, and cross departmental investigations, and paid administrative leaves, I wonder how many officers are actually available to be on duty?
notanidiot101 on September 24 at 12:49 p.m.
Some of you guys are so sick. You don’t care about the truth. Or at least waiting to hear the truth. All you want to do is bash police. I am not a cop, but if any bad guy or pregnant lady, EVER points a gun at me or my family, I will shoot them. I would assume that it is the same rationale for every citizen, even you. So don’t act like you would not shoot someone that points a gun at you or your family. By the same token, don’t criticize a cop for doing the same!!!
monkeyman on September 24 at 12:51 p.m.
Loosing count here. I only have 10 fingers…
Hcklbery on September 24 at 12:58 p.m.
For those of you jumping towards condemning this shooting I ask you to put yourself in the following scenario.
Your this cop, you all bust in the door and enter with guns drawn yelling POLICE , you see a pregnant woman on the couch 8 ft away reaching for a handgun laying on the stand next to where she is sitting, you yell FREEZE, she doesn’t stop but grabs the gun and starts to swing it around coming to be pointed at you,
you have split seconds to cross that 8ft void over a coffee table and other stuff on the floor in the living room, YOU KNOW you CAN NOTmake it.
you yell FREEZE again this time more forceful and finality in your voice, she doesn’t and now has that gun within inches of completing her arch that will bring her aim dead on to you.
WHAT DO YOU DO ?????
If it were me ? I would feel real bad for her baby and even some for her, but you know what ??
SHE’S GOING DOWN.
Wounded only, if I can, dead if I can’t.
My attitude would be, I’m not orphaning my kids so that a bunch of cop hating ingrates don’t bad mouth me on the local paper’s comment section.
AND SLEEP JUST FINE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH….
misjustice on September 24 at 1:00 p.m.
notanidiot; where did you get the idea/information that the woman who was shot pointed a gun at the officer? I didn’t read that in the above article or on any of the other news sources reporting on this officer involved shooting.
monkeyman on September 24 at 1:01 p.m.
@ notanidiot101 on September 24 at 12:49 p.m.
“Some of you guys are so sick. … All you want to do is bash police. I am not a cop, but if any bad guy or pregnant lady, EVER points a gun at me or my family, I will shoot them…”
Dear notanidiot101,
Even though there is no mention of other guns in the article, I guess we don’t yet know for sure if there were guns pointed at the police. Or you might know more than others.
But you do remind me of the saying that a crazy person usually insists that they are not crazy. Something similar going on in your case, with the name you have?
andjusticeforall on September 24 at 1:02 p.m.
ok idiot101, since you seem to know every single detail or fact about all the police shootings….please explain why this past shooting @ sean h the police gave a story of his shooting 1st & there is no forensic proof of such?… by no means am i saying he did not deserve to be shot at, im just wondering why your beloved officers would make a report stating he shot 1st when theres no proof of it?
MrNatural on September 24 at 1:03 p.m.
I hate to speculate…but I do wonder if these law enforcement officers are being conditioned and trained to respond with more prejudice. I know I know I’m not there looking down the barrel of a gun but I can’t seem to dismiss the notion that they are using a semblance of hard core military tactics including the premise associated with enemy combatants. Is there no distinction between an American citizen and enemy combatants anymore? I mean for heaven’s sake social workers, public health nurses, code enforcement officials approach the same people unarmed. There has got to be a better way.
andjusticeforall on September 24 at 1:03 p.m.
misjustice….idiot101 knows EVERYTHING! I thought you knew (lol)
andjusticeforall on September 24 at 1:08 p.m.
Hcklbery…..you & idiot101 must have an inside to have all this info that no one else knows about….either that or your just forming an opinion like everyone else has a right to do….too bad we dont know your real name so when the cops shoot YOU for no reason we (or i can @ least) point,laugh & say i told you so hahaha
misjustice on September 24 at 1:09 p.m.
Well, I guess I know it now! I guess the tip off should have been his screen name! ; )
zelda on September 24 at 1:22 p.m.
Man, this thread got ugly fast.
I checked the other news media and it looks like the only info available is what’s coming from a press release. I wonder if DEA is involved, which might explain why they’re so tight-lipped.
addyh on September 24 at 1:31 p.m.
Hi Zelda - Meghann is on scene, as are other media. There’s a lot of conflicting info coming out there from bystanders, but just the one official press release at this point. And GoYankees, I had the same question regarding how the witness knew her due date but not her name. We’ll try to sort that out this afternoon.
Addy Hatch, city editor
GaryP on September 24 at 1:40 p.m.
Why is the State Patrol doing search warrants. Shouldn’t they be doing traffic? Gun play is over their head
hawken on September 24 at 1:55 p.m.
I’m still waiting to see more facts in this particular case…. One thing that is clear to me, based upon the numerous officer shootings, officer lies after shootings and inconclusive investigations of officer involved shootings by local police agencies…. somebody should ask the FBI to set up an “Officer Involved Shooting Task force for Spokane County.” I am not being sarcastic. Any future officer involved shootings should automatically be investigated by the FBI. Having said that, based upon my experience….. fat chance.
cpd805 on September 24 at 1:58 p.m.
There was actually another relatively short period of time when there were multiple officer involved shootings back in the end of 2001 to the beginning of 2002. You had:
1. The shooting at the Lusso offices at 10 N Post in the summer of 01
2. Shooting of the hatchet weilding one-legged man in the house in the East Central area in Dec 01
3. Shooting of Ira Buroker on that New Years Eve after he shot at officers
4. The Intermodal shooting about a week later where Jason Graham shot at several officers with an SKS
5. Later that month, the shooting of the guy in a car at the Safeway Mission/Hamilton.
Then there was a break until September when there were 2 more. Hopefully this “spurt” will end soon.
valleyman on September 24 at 1:58 p.m.
They are all corupt aren’t they folks. Evil police shooting good, law abiding folks for no reason. Yes this makes sense…
soccermomsusie on September 24 at 2:02 p.m.
I drove by the area today and talked to some of the neighbors. Apparently, this was a drug raid of some sort. The plump pregnant perp was allegedly part of a prenatal vitamin smuggling ring.
Worse yet, these vitamins were from, you guessed it - CANADA!! I am sure the child in her womb’s (a child not a choice - that’s right) first word will be, “eh” and then he will put his hand out for free healthcare. It makes me sick.
First meth labs and now prenatal vitamin smuggling rings. It’s a shame. WE WANT OUR COUNTRY (NOT SOMEONE ELSE’S COUNTRY “EH” BACK!)
HEAR OUR VOICE!!!
Hcklbery on September 24 at 2:04 p.m.
@andjusticeforall
The premise for my HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO is that a citizen does not USUALLY as a rule get shot by highly trained members of a specialized drug take down task force.
These guys are NOT your run of the mill patrol beat cops.
They are extremely skilled thru elite training in non lethal enforcement tactics. This is especially true for State Police level operatives.
You do not get onto THAT team by being mediocre or easily rattled.
That said, this is not a “local John Wayne wannabee with a chip on his shoulder confronting a home owner on his own property and ends up killing the guy cause he got rattled and thus trigger happy.
A “NO KNOCK” warrant execution is extremely tense and fast moving, evolving with quick second rapidity as time is your greatest asset and worst adversary all at the same time.
THE VERY FACT THAT THIS WOMAN IS NOT DEAD IS A TREMENDOUS TESTAMENT TO THE SKILL AND TRAINING OF THE OFFICER GIVEN THE CONDITIONS OF THE CONFRONTATION.
I AM ASSUMING MUCH HEAR AS THE ARTICLE GIVES LITTLE TO GO ON, however my assumptions are rational AND ASSUME the BETTER of these dedicated public servants.
hawken on September 24 at 2:13 p.m.
Andy Hatch: I see that you’re monitoring the debate on this topic. Why don’t you ask the Spokesman Review to write an editorial asking local law enforcement heads to request of the FBI that they set up a local “Officer Involved Shooting Team.”
westerly on September 24 at 2:14 p.m.
What she have..an AK-47??
dougfresh on September 24 at 2:18 p.m.
Can I just sign up to not have the cops ever come onto my property, for any reason? I’d like to turn down their assistance for any burglers, etc, protect myself, and in exchange could not have to worry about them bashing my door down & shooting myself or my dog. I know this is not actually possible, but it would be really nice.
Scoutster on September 24 at 2:19 p.m.
Gosh, I have read hardly any speculation or blaming on this thread re this shooting, mostly just comments about the unusual frequency lately. Some asides about the process. Questions about details. A couple of negative comments soon ignored.
The only defensive and quick to judge folks seem to be cops and “cop-defenders-no-matter-whats”.
I think we are all cop supporters, even if some of “we, the people”, as citizens and employers in this fine democracy, have questions and concerns.
Lighten up and grow a little thicker skin, kiddies.
zelda on September 24 at 2:31 p.m.
cpd805 — Yeah, a Poisson distribution. Maybe.
“Probability distribution of the number of occurences of an event that rarely happens but has very many opportunities to happen.”
misjustice on September 24 at 2:36 p.m.
zelda; I looked up Poisson distribution like you recommended. The math made my head hurt! Thanks for your one sentence explanation of the theory.
scouster; I made the same observation.
SpokaneLiberal on September 24 at 2:37 p.m.
Assume the better of highly trained law enforcement. I wish we could
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police_shooting_of_Oscar_Grant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiyana_Jones
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-04-13/justice/maryland.police.beating_1_third-officer-two-officers-police-officer?_s=PM:CRIME
http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/1392478,william-cozzi-guilty-wheelchair-beating-012209.article
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2292911
RobertHLocksley on September 24 at 3:10 p.m.
Hcklbery:
Yes you are assuming a lot and obviously speaking to things you do not know if you are inferring that her being shot in the arm/shoulder is “a tremendous testament to the skill and training…….” No LE firearms training program teaches officers to shoot to wound. They shoot for center mass. The fact she was hit in a limb, however fortunate, was NOT deliberate.
The litmus test on this one will ultimately be was she armed with a gun and pointing it. If indeed she was under the stairs, furtive movement/knife etc. will not cut it this time (NPI). Whoever said on the TBs that this is an outgrowth of the Lakewood incident was speaking truth. There has been a lot of discussion and training regarding this in departments across the state. SPD detectives were told by a deputy in the Creach shooting: “this scenario was just like an in-service training we just had.”
PlanB on September 24 at 3:28 p.m.
I can tell you based on personal experience that a women 38 weeks pregnant poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to any and all around her. If this isn’t cause for using deadly force, I don’t know what is.
bdr on September 24 at 3:29 p.m.
Police say the chick was hit on the knee cap with a night stick after they saw a gun she didn’t have tucked in her oversize britches. she was told to drop and lay on her tummy she refused….she fell to the ground after the hit….. and the cops supposedly saw the butt of the gun and promptly shot her.
Public; Oh wait want that excuse already used in Creach shooting.
police…yes but it seemed work so were using it again.
Public OK…..that’s fine..! Ive got to go take my adhd pills now.
Thayne on September 24 at 3:41 p.m.
Everyone just needs to simmer down, we’ll learn the truth after the officer is given his 48 hours off to get his story down and collaborate with his buddies to make sure they all jive. So first they didn’t find any drugs in this apartment, I guess they need to bust down a few more doors in the complex until they find some. If this task force “combats trafficking of controlled substances in Lewiston, Clarkston, Moscow and Pullman.” what are they doing in Spokane? What impartial investigative agency is going to take this on? I think the Spokane police guild should give it a whirl. They always want the truth brought out. Riiiight.
bszottlinger on September 24 at 4:04 p.m.
This could get a bit sticky. If this was a federal task force the WSP officer may have been deputized to perform the law enforcement functions of a federal agent.
Dazzeetrader1980 on September 24 at 4:05 p.m.
Much too many deaths and shootings by cops. Federal oversight is the only way to get this group under control.
Never in the history of Spokane County/City has there been this much trouble. Rogues, bad policy, bad leadership, bad unions, just bad in every way.
Fire some but get the FBI in here. This will not stop by itself.
Citizens pay for these guys. Thugs…
Orange on September 24 at 4:49 p.m.
“The mother, who would not give her name or identify the younger woman, said police were searching the apartment for drugs but found none”
So who’s the drug runner, mom or daughter?
My guess, it’s Mom. And she was currently out of her stash or flushed it.
Rossi!!!!!!
soccermomsusie on September 24 at 4:51 p.m.
Daisy Minkin, If we get more FBI agents up here that is exactly what the government wants. You know what is going to happen. The FBI agents will start shooting up the place. Why? So the United Nations will have to intervene and send their blue-beret jackbooted thugs here - just as George (Golden Voice) McGrath has prophesied. Don’t play into the UN takeover of the Inland Northwest, please!
HEAR OUR VOICE!!!
zelda on September 24 at 5:18 p.m.
Can the S-R’s graphic artist construct a Venn diagram to explain who is investigating whom in cop shootings since last month? (Be prepared for the possibility of a multi-agency enforcement action involving the WSP, SPD, Sheriff’s Department and the RCMP calling for a CIA investigation.)
Thayne — the officer and his buddies are jiving all right but what I want is stories that jibe.
Hcklbery on September 24 at 5:29 p.m.
@ RobertHLocksley
Yes you are assuming a lot and obviously speaking to things you do not know if you are inferring that her being shot in the arm/shoulder is “a tremendous testament to the skill and training…….” No LE firearms training program teaches officers to shoot to wound. They shoot for center mass. The fact she was hit in a limb, however fortunate, was NOT deliberate.
As far as speaking to things I DO NOT know in regards to skill and training Sir, Being a “former” law enforcement officer I Also was speaking to the experience of such men of specialized “take down” duties. It is to this last point that I lean upon to make the statement that a wounding under such conditions speaks of exceptional skill and experience if indeed the wounding was intentional (which for these highly skilled men is the likeliest). The reasoning is thus.
Just as you say the TRAINING is SOLELY center mass,, FOR POLICE ACADEMY LEVEL TRAINING, but NOT SO for these specialized guys, They hone their responses for all scenarios of possibilities AND probabilities. There are weapons proficiency standards that must be met BEFORE you are even considered for these duties.
According to the article this woman isn’t just pregnant she is VERY PREGNANT, which means this officer likely as not SAW her pregnancy and took the extraordinary effort to wound ONLY, being forced to shoot, and due to his skill set and encompassing training he was successful.
If this had been just your average patrol officer she’d likely be dead as his training would indeed ONLY encompass center mass as you alluding to in supporting your assertion of ignorance on my part.
You perhaps might want to heed the old sage advice that if you don’t have a sound experience to base your assertions you should probably say nothing at all.
YOUR STATEMENT “The fact she was hit in a limb, however fortunate, was NOT deliberate.”
SIR:
when speaking of men of this calibre this statement serves ONLY to reveal a total absence of knowing what one is talking about and an arrogance only surpassed by a desperate ego.
misjustice on September 24 at 6:08 p.m.
These shootings will more than likely continue until the public/people realize they have to obey the law. When people believe they have more b*lls than the police you will continue to hear of such shootings.
Law enforcement is exactly that… they enforce the law & there are waaayyyy to many people in Spokane that think they don’t have to listen to them.
How many shootings do you think we would have “daily” if we didn’t have some type of LE?
oink on September 24 at 6:43 p.m.
Law enforcement boys and girls enforce the laws AGINST everyone …except other LE boys and girls. They can and do get away with murder..DUI…rape..using and selling drugs..
no one is safe in Spokane…
You can not go to the corner store and buy a soda and a candy bar or a Spokane cop will beat you …TAZE you…. HOG tie you …and let you lay there and die ..Otto
you can not walk down the street past a GAY bar. or a Spokane cop can shoot you in the head…Shonto
You can not protect your only way to support your family and your community..If you do a dildoe salesman can blow you away…Pastor Creach
You can not be “with child” in Spokane because the cops will tell the troopers she is breading drug dealers.. Nameless women shot by Washington States’ finest
bszottlinger on September 24 at 6:51 p.m.
Hcklbery:
Are you referring to a federal drug task force which includes locals, or are you referring to a swat team. Things may have changed in the last couple of years but I don’t remember ever seeing the kind of requirements your talking about for drug task force members. Are you assuming that the task force used a swat team to execute the search warrant? I didn’t notice that anywhere in the press releases.
JBlim on September 24 at 6:54 p.m.
Unarmed pregnant women pose a real threat, no wonder they shot her.
bszottlinger on September 24 at 7:02 p.m.
Hcklbery:
I also can’t find any indication this was a No Knock search warrant.
bszottlinger on September 24 at 7:29 p.m.
soccormomsusie:
Do you play guitar and kinda sing?
HEAR MY VOICE
eagleproducer on September 24 at 7:36 p.m.
hkclbry is right. The pigs like to keep drug perps alive so they can get them to rat out their friends too.
oink on September 24 at 7:54 p.m.
I’m thinkin that the “GUILD” has a condo or two in Vegas..and the coppers are just gettin in line to shoot someone to get paid leave and a free vacation.
We can just hope that the rank and file don’t run out of bullits or lies before they all cash in!
lewis8457 on September 24 at 8:18 p.m.
I remember a few years ago the city was complaining bullets were so expensive, they couldn’t afford them. It seems they got a surplus from somewhere. Maybe it is all the gang riot ammunition that is collecting dust in the basement of the nosafetyhere building.
alltheplants on September 24 at 8:20 p.m.
These guys haven’t been able to do anything right for a while. I wonder if that Gypsy curse is kicking in. How you gonna’ spin this one Rocky?
de3 on September 24 at 8:31 p.m.
Zelda, you have nailed it again. Isn’t the SPD investigating the SCSO, with assistance from the WSP?
And now the SCSO is investigating the WSP?
And that is just in 2 recent shootings.
I doubt their protocol envisioned so many shootings that the agencies would all be investigating each other to the extent they may now have a new level of conflicts of interest.
zelda on September 24 at 10:46 p.m.
KHQ has a bit more about the shooting with additional details on the circumstances that led to the woman getting shot.
http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=13215273
spokanecougar on September 25 at 1:24 a.m.
I guess the cops are getting bored shooting old men and now trying pregnant women. The pretty much confirms that law enforcement will shoot anyone first and if you survive maybe they will ask you some questions.
You know, I am more afraid of law enforcement than I am of any gang member or thief. Now who do I call when I need help?
Gimple on September 25 at 3:58 a.m.
I only ever go to Spokane when I want to get shot.
svwhistleblower on September 25 at 6:06 a.m.
Hmm…..let’s see here…..unarmed pregnant woman, surrounded by police officers in the apartment, apartment complex has officers surrounding it as well…..i think that’s all the facts you need to determine that officer who shot the pregnant woman was OUT OF HIS MIND!!! On top of that they are saying she tried to climb out of a window! That’s the biggest load of bs I’ve ever heard. A woman at 39 wks. pregnant is not going to try to climb out a window! Sitting up in bed is very difficult at 39wks. so I think it’s safe to say there’s no way she would be able to attempt an escape out of the window. According to khq at 6 the woman has no criminal history so what reason did she have for trying to escape? The fact that initial reports said there were no drugs found but then later they said they did find drugs tells me they are liars and are trying to cover up the CLEARLY UNJUSTIFIED shooting that took place.
SpokaneLiberal on September 25 at 6:41 a.m.
She was shot white fleeing!?!
KHQ reports she was detained, became non-compliant, attempted to flee and was shot while unarmed.
Being non-compliant is grounds for using force but not lethal force which a gun is always considered.
This is deeply concerning.
Can someone declare a state of emergency and disband the police forces? Then have a similar number of special agent or higher FIBIs come and replace them until we can replace them with an entirely new force that isn’t shooting crazy.
JBlim on September 25 at 7:02 a.m.
They gave a medal to the cop who shot 17-year-old Lewis and Clark student “Suicide by Cop” Sean Fitzpatrick’s jaw off back in 2003. I suppose an unarmed pregnant woman is worthy as well for some sort of cop-honor for bravery.
svwhistleblower on September 25 at 7:38 a.m.
Gramma
You need to educate yourself on local crime report statistics. Spokane crimes mostly consist of theft related crimes and actual “shootings” in spokane are rare.Not a single one of these officer involved shootings were a result of someone defying law enforcement. You’ve got it all backwards. SPD need to be held accountable and reminded that they are not above the law. There are several websites dedicated to bringing awareness to the ongoing corruption in the spokane police department. Unfortunately you are one of many people who are too naive to question the integrity of anyone who is an authority figure because they are an authority figure. However I must say I know there are several officers of SPD who truly believe in serving and protecting public and enforcing the law without abusing their position of authority. I have the utmost respect for them.
On another note many of these “task forces” have repeatedly lied to the media, violated civil rights of citizens, unlawfully searched premises that a search warrant specifically said they weren’t allowed to search, intentionally destroyed evidence, and destroyed property belonging to crime victims, They are reckless and will say whatever they need to say to make themselves look good. I know this for a fact because I have personally witnessed it as person who had absolutely no involvement with the crimes/investigations. Seriously, they are out of control!
skierdc1 on September 25 at 8:04 a.m.
Un-frickin’ believable! I would normally say “I will stay home where it is safe” but obviously that does not matter in this town!
bszottlinger on September 25 at 8:15 a.m.
RobertHLocksley:
Hcklbery:
As far too much information slowly becomes public and speculation mounts, perhaps the two of you would like to discuss the issue of UD. Of course none of us know the facts but it might be interesting to read your take on how that issue often arises in cases like this as well as some of the other recent cases.
Brad
bszottlinger on September 25 at 8:39 a.m.
If this was in fact a federal task force led by the DEA, which I am sure it is based on the jurisdictions crossing State Lines, then if it makes anyone feel any better (which I doubt) the federal government will be following the investigation very closely because the WSP Officer was an Agent of the Federal Government. Although the investigation is left to the locals, DEA has a number of extensive hoops they must jump through in their own process of investigating this matter and will be asking the locals for information and data that I haven’t seen mentioned in the other OIS cases in Spokane.
oink on September 25 at 9:13 a.m.
An unarmed 9 month pregnant woman will always scare the crap out of a 6’ 2” 210 pound trooper and of coarse make him fear for his life. but there is at least one thing more dangerous….
A screaming baby with a loaded diaper.
It is a harder shot being a smaller target, but I have no doubt that a someone with a badge and a gun will take that shot in Spokane county in the next few weeks!
eagleproducer on September 25 at 10:18 a.m.
How’s that “war on drugs” working out, Americans?
Sadbuttrue on September 25 at 10:37 a.m.
Police officers, through their highly-specialized training, are accutely aware that even an unborn baby, potential violent future felony drug dealer that they are, are sometimes lethal, even in utero. Although a well-trained humane cop would have pistol whipped the mom unconscious instead of shot her, and perhaps used a gentler form of self-defense against the fetus, like tasering it.
And its the “in utero” part, like almost all complicated Latin phrases that are used in court, that scares the bejeezus out of cops. Why mess around with those high-fallutin funny-sounding foreign words when its simpler just to lie your a$$ off like you were trained to do?
misjustice on September 25 at 10:42 a.m.
spoketucky; guess it depends which side you’re on. From the pregnant woman’s side, I’d have to say not so good.
Although I’m sure that in the coming days “information” will be released that will paint her as a drug crazed, drug dealing kingpin with gang affiliations, who’s on the dole, and a general menace to society.
Sadbuttrue on September 25 at 10:58 a.m.
A few months ago, some numb skull cop wrote a column that advocated cops being allowed to use military tactics as a result of the Lakewood murder of four cops by a deeply mentally-ill person who thought he was Jesus Christ.
Military tactics like search and destroy, shoot on sight etc etc.
At the time, I thought the cop was just engaging in sophistry and extreme hyperbole to make a point. How could anyone have guessed that he was being prophetic?
What is scary about the last few weeks is there have been three OIS that fit the bill of the cops unapologetically using those military tactics against civilians.
misjustice on September 25 at 11:02 a.m.
Sad; do you recall where you read that at? Was it the Spokesman? I’d like to read it.
Sadbuttrue on September 25 at 11:14 a.m.
Misjustice, I have copied the relevant part that appeared in the Spokesman Review:
…..
“These officers, as all officers do, aspired to the moral high ground. They saw themselves as the good guys who caught the bad guys. They operated under the expired belief that they were the protectors whom society had appointed hunters of criminals.
These five officers didn’t understand that they no longer had the choice whether or not to insert themselves into a potentially fatal situation. Rather than hunting criminals, these officers became the hunted because of what they represent. They were not prepared to operate within a military mindset, as society had yet to force police to assume this type of defensive posture.
The rules of engagement have changed. High-risk situations have always required tactically defensive measures, but now officers are being advised to maintain tactical advantage while completing the always present paperwork or even when doing something as quiet as eating lunch.”
……
Doesn’t it just give you the creeps when you hear a cop letting the cat out of the bag by talking about “Rules of Engagement?” After the last few weeks, isn’t obvious that they truly do see us as the enemy?
misjustice on September 25 at 11:25 a.m.
Sad; how about the link? Name of author?
misjustice on September 25 at 11:27 a.m.
Sad; I found it… ; )
misjustice on September 25 at 11:35 a.m.
“They were not prepared to operate within a military mindset, as society had yet to force police to assume this type of defensive posture.”
So, it’s OUR fault cops have adopted a military mindset, they had no choice, they are merely defending themselves; pre-emptively?
Sadbuttrue on September 25 at 12:05 p.m.
Misjustice,
RE: Pregnant women as enemy combatants
As a disguise, nothing has ever exceeded the tactical and strategic lethal value for an enemy combatant of being obviously pregnant. For all-too-long, you people have fooled us with the tired old “motherhood and pregnancy” nostrums, and have engaged in rampant violent criminality and undetected terrorist behavior through the oh-so-convenient camouflage of pregnancy. You have manipulated us with feigned innocence and weakness that was automatically presumed by your condition. You have preyed on and dangerously taken advantage of the protective male emotions long enough.
Your jig is up. We are on to you.
Lurking behind every maternity dress sale counter awaits a stone cold killer in drag. Estimations range from 50 to 70 percent of all undetected violent crime is committed by the pregnant-appearing enemy.
wetsailor on September 25 at 2:40 p.m.
Using force on the citizenry is not “just another job”.
Police are there to protect us. That is their job.They are not there to protect themselves until they have insured that our protection has been established, in any given situation. To earn and retain their exalted hero status in the eyes of their employers (us) then they must make their own survival and protection secondary to the surival of any persons they encounter that are not police, since their job as heroes, with all the privileges (protection from prosecution , ability to openly carry and use firearms, ability to arrest and detain citizens, etc etc) is to protect us, not themselves. If they are in the moral right to protect themselves before they protect us, then we may as well dispense with them, as they are uselless to an unarmed society. If they do not do everything humanly possible to arrest “wrong doers” or “suspects”, both of which are still citizens, without harm, without damage (remember-innocent until proven guilty???) then they do not deserve to be in that position of trust. If this is not “the old west” anymore, and citizens no longer need to carry weapons, then the police should not be practicing “fast draw” tactics- no lethal force should be used (including tasers) for anything besides a violent crime in progress and then only if there is no other way to subdue a “suspect”, even if the “suspect (citizen still) is “endangering” those police, or if the police “feel threatened”. If their job is to “Protect and serve” then the police do not have the privilege of protecting themselves with lethal or potentialy harmful force except as a last resort, and then only to subdue violent “suspects” in the act of aggression, unless their job is to protect themselves and serve themselves. Were I to shoot someone dead because they had a weapon that might harm me, or I “felt” in danger, my chances of jail time far outwiegh those of the police and I would go to jail for a long time, while police do not. That is why the police should never, ever, unless as a last resort, to protect other citizens in immediate lethal peril, use deadly force, even at their own peril. Nor shoud force be used by them for self protection if there is any other way to avoid harm (for instance, they could take cover, withdraw from sight, wait them out, etc-). If they are not up to taking a risk to protect all citizens (even those who are “suspects”) then they should resign immediatly, they are not “heroes”. Using force on the citizenry is not “just another job”.
oink on September 25 at 5:14 p.m.
Hey sailor you are not from around these parts are you?
It is what it is…. get used to it and comply and get shot anyway.
Hcklbery on September 26 at 4:53 a.m.
Out of what ? OVER 90 comments and ONLY a handful reflect any regard or respect for those who serve the community by enforcing the laws on the elements of society that would make ALL others their victims ???
It seems to me that these kinds of incidents brings out the cocroaches who have THEIR OWN special hatred towards those who are on the front lines of holding them accountable to the law.
The problem as I see it is that there ARE some BAD shootings by some who NEVER should of been carrying a gun in the first place. When I was in law enforcement we had them. Guys with a John Wayne wannabe complex and under good leadership (the chief of police) they were weeded out of the police force.
THIS is the essence or ROOT cause of your town’s law enforcement failure.
A chief of police who isn’t worth his salt when it comes to judging the measure of the men under him or that he hires.
An opinion offered for whatever it is worth to ya.
ONE more thing you should know, it is standard practice to put a man on patrol WITHOUT FIRST putting him through the police academy training which can take up to 3 years in some states (or longer if at all) to get that officer PROPERLY trained through an actual academy. MORE times than not the patrol officer has been ONLY trained ON THE JOB as he is supervised by a (hopefully but not always) more experienced and seasoned officer who naturally enough is ALSO likely to of NEVER been trained through an actual professional police academy but by another guy then, just like he now is.
THIS IS A LITTLE KNOWN PRACTICE that probably will shock alot of you but it has been going on for decades.
It is a little loophole in the law that permits it as a temporary stopgap intended to give time to schedule the new hire for the academy BUT MANY cash strapped Cities use it to bypass the formal and expensive training altogether.
IT IS COMMON PRACTICE, I have seen some towns throw an armed previous burger flipper with an attitude into the public domain and sometimes with disastrous results for the public.
This Creach shooting is to me a PRIME example of having ALL the TALE TELL signs of this very thing. The public should DEMAND to know this Creach shooting officer’s Training history.
I would ALMOST HANG MY HAT ON THE ASSUMPTION he NEVER went through formal police academy training. I would almost bet my big toe he NEVER even received much on the job supervisory training either and Betsy to bones he was “squeezed out of his last law enforcement employment as an undesirable. Just an OPINION…

I tell you, after so many years you can spot these guys a mile away, AND THEY ALWAYS end up killing someone then their little town or small city for liability sake covers it all up and declares it a justified killing then quietly makes to that officer an uncomfortable working environment which prods him to want to leave and so he does to some unsuspecting city who has a chief who couldn’t tell the difference from a hole in the ground and their own backside.
Gets hired as a “lateral” (legal liability term regarding training requirements) transfer and thus NOW doesn’t even need to be slotted for the academy ( which makes their hire more appealing to the hapless chief’s budget).
BUT THIS DOESN’T MEAN THAT THEIR AREN’T HIGHLY TRAINED, SKILLED AND PROFESSIONAL GUYS ON THE FORCE.
I KNOW this.
Liability vulnerability issues FORCE the city to provide high levels of training to their teams that execute drug related warrants, as ALL drug warrants involving home interdictions are NO KNOCK warrants, thus as these are the types of people (drug dealers) who will shoot it out with police, these teams are extremely capable and highly trained.
Which is why I said what I said in my earlier posts.
There is MUCH you the general public DO NOT KNOW.
misjustice on September 26 at 7:07 a.m.
Yeah, I’m one of those cockroaches, hcklbery; I don’t need some gung ho Barney Fife to hold me accountable to the “law”. With this latest shooting of an unarmed citizen, however, it sure looks like the cops need to be held accountable. Not only to the “law” but also to the citizens.
lewis8457 on September 26 at 7:53 a.m.
yes in your eyes I am a cockroach too Huckleberry. WE get no points in being good law abiding citizens in Spokane. Sadly we are the ones put down on a regular basis.
We just recently found out we have no civil liberties in the state of Washington. If a police officer orders you to drop something you MUST comply. If he starts beating you, you must stand and take it. You can not fight back or this gives him the right to beat you harder.
So basically I have no right to life in Washington as far as the cops are concerned, and that isn’t supposed to make me mad?
i was worried before about a traffic stop going bad now i have to worry anytime i get with in 6 feet of a cop. He can hit me on the knee with his baton and then shoot me in the chest point blank, for no reason, and in your book that is OK?
monkeyman on September 26 at 8:18 a.m.
@Hcklbery on September 26 at 4:53 a.m.
I think everyone should read the above comment, specially past the first two paragraphs. It begins as a police support comment, but does offer good points later.
My question to Hcklbery is what is being done to weed out the bad apples. And does he/she think that the public anger/discussion including on this forum might help push some change? And you yourself are just a cockroach (just on the other side), if you don’t do anything about it.
You end with - “There is MUCH you the general public DO NOT KNOW.”
…May be that is why the general public angry and confused? Perhaps you can continue to educate us.
bszottlinger on September 26 at 9:00 a.m.
Hcklbery:
If your previous theory is correct and a highly trained, highly skilled, entry team was utilized to execute the search warrant and your premise below is correct.
“According to the article this woman isn’t just pregnant she is VERY PREGNANT, which means this officer likely as not SAW her pregnancy and took the extraordinary effort to wound ONLY, being forced to shoot, and due to his skill set and encompassing training he was successful”.
“YOUR STATEMENT “The fact she was hit in a limb, however fortunate, was NOT deliberate.”
“SIR:
when speaking of men of this calibre this statement serves ONLY to reveal a total absence of knowing what one is talking about and an arrogance only surpassed by a desperate ego.”
Your most recent post:
“I KNOW this.
Liability vulnerability issues FORCE the city to provide high levels of training to their teams that execute drug related warrants, as ALL drug warrants involving home interdictions are NO KNOCK warrants, thus as these are the types of people (drug dealers) who will shoot it out with police, these teams are extremely capable and highly trained.
Which is why I said what I said in my earlier posts.
There is MUCH you the general public DO NOT KNOW.”
Are you ruling out the possibility of a UD, and attributing the discharge to an example of well trained marksmanship in this case and on the other hand attributing the Creach shooting to a lack of training?
“This Creach shooting is to me a PRIME example of having ALL the TALE TELL signs of this very thing. The public should DEMAND to know this Creach shooting officer’s Training history.
I would ALMOST HANG MY HAT ON THE ASSUMPTION he NEVER went through formal police academy training. I would almost bet my big toe he NEVER even received much on the job supervisory training either and Betsy to bones he was “squeezed out of his last law enforcement employment as an undesirable. Just an OPINION…”
Of course obtaining a “no knock” search warrant is for the most part relatively easy in gang related search warrants, do you know for a fact that was the case here?
You also bring up liability issues. If this was a federal task force and the shooting was the result of an unintentional discharge where would the liability lie?
Please note I used the term “unintentional discharge” rather then “negligent discharge” as the term “negligent” immediately attaches an element of liability.
BTW, in my less than humble opinion, in the Creach case, Officer Hirzel’s firearms and baton training records from all three departments should have been submitted to the prosecutor when the case was presented. I am not confident that was done, however I am fairly confident that in this matter if this was a federal task force and the WSP Officer was deputized, his firearms records will be obtained by DEA and will be submitted along with the entire investigation to the OIG.
Brad
Elkay on September 26 at 10:13 a.m.
Dang … I want to get into this blog, but have to do some more painting outside. grrrrrr.
Interesting and very educational.
Sadbuttrue on September 26 at 10:30 a.m.
“OVER 90 comments and ONLY a handful reflect any regard or respect for those who serve the community by enforcing the laws.”
That is because the local police, hands down are are some of the most absolutely awful in existence. They have worked hard to well-earn the visceral hatred of the public.
bszottlinger on September 26 at 12:55 p.m.
Hcklbery:
This is really confusing to me maybe you can explain it to me. The Lewiston Morning Tribunes quotes Whitman County Sheriff Brett Myers (the task force leader) as stating that “the Spokane County Sheriff’s Office took the lead on serving the warrant Friday” I find that the WSP does have a interlocal agreement with the Quad-Cities Drug TF through the Whitman County Sheriff’s Office. Does that mean that the WSP Officer was possibly a member of the QCDTF, or could it mean that he was helping out the Spokane County Sheriffs Office and was a member of one of those elite teams you were writing about?
If, and this is a big if, this wasn’t a case of exceptional marksmanship, rather a case of UD, where would you see liability attach if someone was later able to bring a civil action? Would it be with the Whitman County Sheriff’s Office, The Washington State Patrol, The Quad-Cities Drug TF, The Federal Government(if a federal task force), or the Spokane County Sheriff’s Office who are now in charge of the shooting investigation and according to Sheriff Myers were taking the lead on the search warrant execution?
http://www.wsp.wa.gov/publications/forms/interlocal_agreements.pdf
http://dailyme.com/story/2010092500001809/police-pregnant-woman-shot-spokane-ties.html
http://www.cityoflewiston.org/index.aspx?nid=268
Brad
Hcklbery on September 26 at 7:05 p.m.
@Brad.
I don’t have the info to offer definitive answers to your specific questions about these shootings.
If you will note I state I have like all the others here; an existing absence of knowledge of the facts on the ground surrounding these incidents.
I offer common sense opinions based on my experience using what is for me a common knowledge of SOP for these depts and the real life caliber of these men in these duties (both the positive AND the negatives) I draw a very real plausible hypothetical characterization though imperfect as I could be JUST AS EASILY wrong.
Having been myself involved in federal tacticals and knowing the men of this venue I would find it difficult to accept what you call a UD as this just doesn’t happen at these levels of expertise. As far as RP (round placement) you must score expert in multiple weapons AND under extreme conditions so a wounding to me is completely in character when so warranted,
(pregnant woman)..
However a beat cop is as I said and this is why you will see occasions sometimes of eighty rounds fired from 8 or 9 officers and MAYBE one round finds a suspect.
You saw this in Calif in the now infamous bank heist that turned into a street battle. THOUSANDS of rounds and NO precise RPs NONE, in over an hour,,, If some I use to know had been there, there would of been two perps face down with a round in the ear within a minute. I KID YOU NOT.
Their training used anywhere of 5 to 8 thousand rounds a week and even in a day per person, you get real good if you already possess a natural aptitude.
But a beat cop might train once or twice a year using MAYBE a hundred or two each time, MAYBE.
I saw video once recorded by a bystander in a restaurant of this wounded beat cop killed, (real life), with a sawed off shotgun, in a fierce traffic stop gone bad gun battle, and after stopping long enough to pocket his brass in reloading he had three rounds in his revolver when the perp came around the vehicle drawing down his aim.
He died with three rounds in his weapon his fingers inserting the fourth.
WHY ?
Because in moments like this you revert to your training (Policing the brass) in a backside puckering controlled fear. And when NO training exists that person ALWAYS reverts to their alter ego they have fantasized themselves to be.
WITHOUT EVEN THINKING; THIS HAPPENS, when the strangulating fear grips your innards; without training you lose that battle.
Which is why the Police Academy NOW trains exactly like it is the real thing, (train like you fight) this advanced training has saved many a life.
Some hold up really quite well just naturally when under fire or the perceived eminent threat of incoming, and others collapse inside themselves in debilitating fear unable to function, unable to face the danger presented them so they run away inside leaving their alter ego to protect them, their alter ego who has in times past given them a sense of comforting confidence in the imaginations of their own fantasies.
IT IS THE CHIEF OF POLICE THAT TRADITIONALLY WEEDS THE RANKS OF THESE WANNABEES, REMOVING FROM THE PUBLIC’S EXPOSURE THE INHERENT RISKS OF SUCH A MAN GIVEN A GUN AND GREAT AUTHORITY OVER THE CITIZENRY.
This pregnant woman shooting in my estimation is simply an event that according to the Poisson distribution law or “Poissonian” dictates that due to the many opportunities of an event occurring, (the exposure to such high risk inherently dangerous confrontations with armed and willing to shoot criminals) that event (wounding a pregnant woman) must occur even if rarely.
But I digress>
Let it suffice that at this point of knowns it is very possible that the drug raid shooting is the inevitable Poissonian event. But as far as these OTHER beat cop shootings, I view them separated due to a reasonable expectation in the differences of calibre of men involved.
As such;
There is a serious need to fire the chief of police,
In my opinion…
bszottlinger on September 26 at 7:28 p.m.
Somehow I just can’t bring myself to believe that they brought an HRT from Quantico to serve this search warrant. But, who knows they are always looking for different practice scenarios.
Hcklbery on September 27 at 4:00 a.m.
For heavy entries, these civilian drug task force teams are; in regards to weapons and tactical training every bit as proficient as the opts boys, even more so as they execute them on a fairly regular basis. These are very specialized teams consisting of highly motivated professionals and not just anyone gets to play.
Contrast this to a panicked Barney Fife beat cop who NEVER should of been promoted out of the security guard ranks, shooting a pastor on his own property simply because he had in his possession a NON-threatening hand gun and you’ll grasp the thrust of my argument.
Permit me to further make this personal observation.
I had a run in with two of Spokane’s “finest” and was singularly and throughly unimpressed.
The absence of professionalism was staggering and I couldn’t shake the feeling I had just encountered some juvenile punks from a local street gang running willy-nilly through the streets looking for trouble completely unafraid of being held accountable to the law.
I’ve had the pleasure of working with civilian agencies both outside and in the States and frankly this level of training breakdown is more expected in third world countries.
This does not happen from the ground up but the top down.
Sadbuttrue on September 27 at 8:36 a.m.
I am profoundly skeptical about the need for so-called “heavy entries,” unless there is a hostage situation or someone’s life is in serious danger.
To routinely employ such violence in executing a drug search warrant is an argument that the War on Drugs has metastasized into a real force for evil. That these highly-trained “elite” teams have to justify their existence by using these tactics (“I’m so good, I chose to only wound the non-threatening pregnant woman”) is a logical tautology. It is also intellectually dishonest. The stories are legion of innocents killed or unnecessarily-traumatized because of “heavy entries” carried out in the dark of the night.
Take for instance, the misnamed “North Idaho Violent Crimes Task force.” In order apparently to justify its existence, it executes a staggering number of home search warrants for marijuana. Apparently there is such a serious dearth of real “violent crimes” in Northern Idaho. Or, garden variety violent crimes are usually resolved in normal course of everyday police business, which again begs the question of the existence of these “elite” teams. An underlying assumption of such a team carrying out marijuana search warrants obviously to be the fact that marijuana users are some of the least violent people in society. What better and safer situation to use your exotic training and toys?
But I do appreciate the spreading perception that the local patrol cops are an undisciplined gang of violent, lawless punks.
cpd805 on September 27 at 9:41 a.m.
Hcklbery,
Who are you kidding? American law enforcement officers….SWAT or not…..are NEVER…and I mean NEVER trained to shoot to wound……EVER. Shooting someone in any part of the body poses a risk of death to that person. The shoulder contains many bones that can re-direct a bullet into an organ….the legs have the largest arteries that will bleed someone out in seconds. With your uninformed comments, I would venture to say you’re being “unimpressed” with your run-in with local police probably indicates they did something right.
Brad, don’t get sucked into his Hollywood theories based on a complete lack of knowledge. I doubt he can accurately answer any of your questions. My feeling is that this was probably an AD (accidental discharge)….but that is pure speculation on my part.
bszottlinger on September 27 at 10:11 a.m.
Cpd805:
The only thing I have ever really been sucked into was a couple of marriages.
It looks like it might be a UD, but who knows.
He is correct that the FBI’s HRTs do train extensively in breaches and close order shots in hostage rescue situations. If I remember correctly the shots they train for are kill shots not wound shots, but it’s been awhile. I doubt the Quad-Cities T F requested an HRT for this situation.
Brad
Sadbuttrue on September 27 at 10:30 a.m.
“….you’re being “unimpressed” with your run-in with local police probably indicates they did something right.”
On the other hand, if the writer was from another area, seeing the local cops in action is truly alarming. It is almost impossible to exaggerate how truly awful the cops in the Inland Empire are, even in comparison with police in other areas of Washington and Idaho. Without a doubt, the cops in Spokane and Northern Idaho are, hands down, the worst cops I have ever seen.
I am in a position where I often send out local cop videos to be analyzed by professional police instructors from out of the area. The response is inevitably jaw-dropping incredulous astonishment at the truly terrible and unprofessional behavior that those videos show. I’m a habitual jokester and a prankster, and some of these guys are long-term associates and friends. Too many times, they are convinced that these genuine videotapes demonstrating laughable, absurdly terrible police misconduct are prank videos copied off joke pages on the internet. They have to be strenuously convinced that these are real videos of real cops in action.
bszottlinger on September 27 at 11:29 a.m.
Sadbuttrue:
Try living and working in DC, NYC, or Baltimore. Then tell me what you think.
Sadbuttrue on September 27 at 4:11 p.m.
Oh, I’ve been around enough to tell bad cops from good cops. All of the previous big cities I have lived and worked in had cops that were like the weather: you knew they were out and about doing their jobs, without too much public attention or notice.
My first day in the Inland Northwest was jaw-dropping amazing, at the obvious discrepancy between the local fuzz and everywhere else I have lived. The local police are well below any professional standard I have ever seen, and I have been to some real puss-filled third-world hellholes, including Syria, Turkey, and Beirut. No kidding, in downtown Damascus I saw cops treat people with more civility and professionalism that I have ever seen in Spokane or North Idaho.
The truth cannot be exaggerated: The local cops are a poorly-trained lawless mob, they are an unsupervised armed gangs of violent punks.
Hcklbery on September 27 at 7:16 p.m.
@ CP
I never said they train to wound as that would box reaction flexibility, I did say they train for rapid precision, i.e. “expert proficiency” which I allude to in justifying the rational probability that the officer seeing the woman was very pregnant and thus quite probably made an instant command decision to deviate from a center mass shot to one more in line with his conscience without jeopardizing the mission. As far as what you call UD it doesn’t happen at that level of professionalism, not that I have EVER seen anyway.
It means instant removal never to return status. It is life and death, ONE round ONE life. That’s how it is viewed because that one round COULD of killed, and it’s YOUR round, YOU OWN IT from the pike to dike it’s yours and EVERYTHING in between.
This is why I said not at their level of training it just doesn’t happen.
But if your ENTIRE Northwest is as described by Sad? I would have to say I never would of thought the problem was SO widespread as that is representative of a breakdown that is not what I had considered, as such a massive training failure would be a virtually unconscionable assumption to anyone who knows just how rare such a perfect storm would be, especially in America.
@sad
If it truly is THAT widespread than a “UD” becomes more likable.
Sadbuttrue on September 28 at 7:39 a.m.
Well, until you can articulate the full extent of the horror of the local police, no change is possible. Personally, I believe the local police situation cannot be reformed until the Feds just step in and seize command and control like they did in New Orleans. With the Feds firmly stepping up to the bat in the Otto Zehm case, there does appear some hope that the solution might eventually come around.
Faster please! Faster!
This goes beyond anything an easily co-opted citizen review board or the toothless ombudsman that the police union successfully fought tooth and nail. What we have in the Spokane/North Idaho area is systematic institutional collapse, a complete breakdown in supervision and training. Roving gangs of armed, undisciplined and lawless punks. This cannot be fixed without a sweeping decapitation of management and replacement with grownups.
Like I said, let us pray that the Feds will cease their procrastination.
bszottlinger on September 28 at 8:24 a.m.
Sadbuttrue:
My experience in “Developing Countries” is that the enforcement of traffic laws is much more efficient than it is here in the US, and I always found the officers to be very nice and respectful. Of course if you were in an obvious government vehicle, you didn’t have to worry, but if you happened to venture out with a rented vehicle and driver you could rest assured you would be stopped and even as a passenger it was your responsibility to resolve the matter. The fines were very reasonable 5-6 US Bucks and you are on your way. No tickets, no warnings, just good old entrepreneurship.
I am not at all familiar with Syria’s “War On Drugs”, but I am somewhat familiar with Turkey’s. It is an interesting war and is primarily based on who you are, where you are from, and who you know. Economics plays a big part in the Turkish war on drugs. Given your position on the US War on Drugs, and since you are here with us after having visited Turkey I can draw three conclusions; you kept your nose clean, you didn’t get caught, or you knew the right people and had the financial wherewithal to resolve any issues that might have come up.
:)
Brad
cpd805 on September 28 at 8:31 a.m.
Sad……you said: “I am in a position where I often send out local cop videos to be analyzed by professional police instructors from out of the area.”
What kind of videos are you referring to……dash cam?….news reels?….old COPS segments?….
Could you post an example of one of these on YouTube and post the link so I could see it? I’d love to see what videos you have that show the “truly terrible and unprofessional behavior ” of local law enforcement. Please let me know.
cpd805 on September 28 at 8:41 a.m.
Sad…you said “With the Feds firmly stepping up to the bat in the Otto Zehm case, there does appear some hope that the solution might eventually come around.”
I’m not so sure. The Feds in the form of McDevitt and Durkin attempted to circumvent the SCOTUS Graham v. Connor ruling by wanting to cherry-pick which details of Zehm’s history unknown to Thompson to suppress and which to admit, which of course led to the lengthy appeal process we see now. If the 9th Circuit affirms the lower court order to suppress ALL of what Thompson did not know (in keeping with case law), I believe there may not even be a trial. I’m sure each side wants their day in court. The Feds want a conviction, Thompson wants acquittal. A decision not to prosecute if the decision does not go the Fed’s way would leave everyone unsatisfied.
cpd805 on September 28 at 9:10 a.m.
Hcklbery,
As I would never wish to take someone out of context or misquote someone, I went back and reviewed your posts to make sure I did not do that. When looking back I see quotes from you such as:
“SHE’S GOING DOWN. Wounded only, if I can, dead if I can’t.”
and

“THE VERY FACT THAT THIS WOMAN IS NOT DEAD IS A TREMENDOUS TESTAMENT TO THE SKILL AND TRAINING OF THE OFFICER GIVEN THE CONDITIONS OF THE CONFRONTATION”
and
“a wounding under such conditions speaks of exceptional skill and experience if indeed the wounding was intentional (which for these highly skilled men is the likeliest)”
and
” this officer likely as not SAW her pregnancy and took the extraordinary effort to wound ONLY”
and
“under extreme conditions so a wounding to me is completely in character when so warranted”
It was just these five statements that led me to believe that you were indicating that an officer would ever “shoot to wound”.
Sadbuttrue on September 28 at 9:14 a.m.
I DO have an “interesting position on the war on drugs!” The entire extent of my drug use was marijuana about six times back in 1986 or so. Didn’t like it then even, had to be forcibly cajoled into even trying it each time. Did it to be polite. Never was even offered hard drugs, ever.
In Turkey, I drank Turkish Coffee. I still to this day retch whenever I am near Turkish Coffee.
Nowadays: Coffee. That’s it for more than 15 years. I could be elected a Mormon Bishop, so pure and drug free am I.
Which causes grave doubts in my mind regarding the self-serving Government hysteria about it being a “gateway drug” and other such complete nonsense. Given the ruthless efficacy of the “Iron Law of Prohibition,” it is clear that the senseless prohibition on marijuana has created the police-inspired black market for methamphetamine. Should the police ever “succeed” in the War against Meth, I fully expect to see it replaced by an even deadlier, more toxic, and more powerful drug.
I would predict that the replacement drug, taken just once, will turn its user into a permanent lifetime ecstatic psycho killer. The rest of us will live bleak dysutopian lives on military bases as the dealers and the cops have running tank and RPG battles in our downtown areas.
More importantly, the drug war has metastasized in a truly evil fashion if it becomes acceptable shooting a pregnant woman to prevent her from harming herself with drugs!
Sadbuttrue on September 28 at 9:20 a.m.
Thompson is going to swing for the “Martha Stewart” lying to a federal investigator. The civil rights count is a throwaway. The Martha Stewart charge will put him in prison where he belongs and will keep the community safe from psychopaths like that running loose on the streets.
misjustice on September 28 at 9:31 a.m.
KXLY is reporting that the shooting was likely “accidental”.
” Three days after a WSP detective shot an unarmed pregnant woman in a suspected drug house, law enforcement sources say the shooting was accidental and that the trooper was trying to keep a woman from jumping out the window when his gun went off.”
“The WSP detective sergeant who fired the shot still hasn’t given his side of the story to investigators, but sources say he didn’t want the woman to hurt herself jumping out the second-story window, so he grabbed her and tried to pull her down.”
“During the course of that attempted restraint, the sergeant’s gun fired and the woman was hit in the torso. She then fell out of the window and was attended to by officers waiting outside.”
http://www.kxly.com/news/25184889/detail.html
bszottlinger on September 28 at 9:49 a.m.
Cpd805:
Actually I believe the appellate issue is quite simply whether or not the government can introduce evidence that Otto Zehm was not in the process of committing, and did not commit a crime leading up to the confrontation. I am just guessing, but I would suspect the governments arguments will revolve around the jury’s ability to adequately address the Fourth Amendment’s “Objective Reasonableness” standard without knowing that Mr. Zehm was not in the process of committing , and did not commit a crime.
I guarantee you that the decision to appeal the issue was NOT made by Mr. McDevitt, Mr. Durkin, or the assisting AUSA from DC. The decision was made at considerably higher levels in the DOJ.
I am quite sure that during the process of deciding whether or not to appeal great consideration was given not only to the Thompson case but also subsequent cases where a citizen not involved in criminal conduct is the victim of an alleged CRV.
Brad
bszottlinger on September 28 at 9:52 a.m.
Justy:
That would blow a bunch of theories wouldn’t it!
misjustice on September 28 at 10:02 a.m.
Brad; Yep!
misjustice on September 28 at 10:03 a.m.
Brad; UD in this case? UD in Creach case?
bszottlinger on September 28 at 10:16 a.m.
Justy:
We may never know. If it was he has already buried himself, it would be pretty hard for him to come back and say it was an accident when he has clearly stated he was defending himself.
misjustice on September 28 at 10:28 a.m.
Not saying it was, just wondering. ; )
Sadbuttrue on September 28 at 10:31 a.m.
The neighbors saw the cop pull the pregnant woman out of the window after he shot her. The cop was standing on the outside stairs.
Sadbuttrue on September 28 at 10:56 a.m.
This latest version of the story sounds like spin, after the original story was met by such ferocious public outcry. Instead of “She was a vicious armed resistant drug dealer who needed shooting,” to today’s version of “Oops, I discharged when she tried to jump outa the window.”
Since the neighbor’s version is so at odds with the Accidental Discharge theory, it appears the cop is lying.
Ron_the_Cop on September 28 at 11:20 a.m.
Sadbuttrue,
We can both agree on the Martha Stewart prediction. I don’t think the facts and circumstances rise to the level of necessary intent to convict for the CRV. Bad police procedure/tactics that caused Zehm’s death YES! Wrongful death YES? Cover up by police command staff and City Attorney’s Office YES. It’s the Martha Stewart - lying to federal investigators to cover up a wrongful death is what’s going to get them all.
I’ve wondered too re the Creach shooting if this was an UD if in fact Hirzel’s statement re the baton strike is true. Assuming finger on trigger while striking with baton. That’s why I always kept my finger out of the trigger guard.
As for the appeal I think it’s a waste of time. What matters is the state of mind of Ofc. Thompson when he approached Zehm. The facts after the facts are not relevant to this case.
Ron_the_Cop on September 28 at 11:32 a.m.
sorry
facts after the facts = facts after the fact
SpokaneLiberal on September 28 at 3:36 p.m.
In keeping with okiedokie’s line of thinking I think cops should now shoot people who think okiedokie is proper English.
By nice police man you mean the guy in the unmarked car who starts yelling and threatening you on your property and then you put the gun down (your pants) and he clubs you and shoots you? That nice guy who sells sex toys and hides it from the required disclosure forms? That nice man who has/may have killed other civilians in other jurisdictions?
SpokaneLiberal on September 28 at 3:37 p.m.
But on a serious note (note sarcasm above) even if it was an accident he should be fired and prosecuted just like a regular person if they accidentally discharged a firearm and it hit a cop.
andrewz on September 28 at 4:17 p.m.
A comment that SpokaneLiberal refers to above was taken down. Sorry for any confusion.
bszottlinger on September 28 at 4:32 p.m.
Ron_the_Cop:
I would agree that the defense in the Thompson case will attempt to show that Officer Thompson’s state of mind at the time was that he was in danger. But have you got any ideas on how Mr. Oreskovich, besides argument and various experts, can effectively establish Thompson’s state of mind for the jury without putting him on the stand?
If he does go on the stand he has a lot of explaining to do.
Brad
cpd805 on September 28 at 4:40 p.m.
Brad,
I figured the decision to appeal was from above, but would McDevitt have not presented his position to his superiors recommending an appeal and them giving him the “go-ahead”?
Zehm may have been found to have been factually innocent of what the complainants accused him of doing, but that is after the fact information that Ofc. Thompson obviously did not have at the scene. The Graham standard is clear that the reasonableness of a use of force is to be judged by what the officer knew at the time, without the benefit of hindsight. Cherry picking which information, at the time unavailable to Thompson, to be used in court is what Van Sickle (I believe it was him who made the decision) ruled is not permissible. I may be wrong, but I believe the Feds case rests heavily on the hindsight information they were seeking to have admitted. If they lose this appeal, I wonder if there will be a trial at all.
cpd805 on September 28 at 4:41 p.m.
Sad……any progress on those smokin’ gun videos you referenced above. I’d love to see one.
Sadbuttrue on September 28 at 5:03 p.m.
Go to KREM.com. Lots of them are already on there.
Hcklbery on September 28 at 5:48 p.m.
YOU STATED>>>cpd805 on September 27 at 9:41 a.m.
Hcklbery,
Who are you kidding? American law enforcement officers….SWAT or not…..are NEVER…and I mean NEVER trained to shoot to wound……EVER.
(((((((( YOU LEFT OUT))))))))
Hcklbery on September 27 at 7:16 p.m.
@ CP
I never said they train to wound as that would box reaction flexibility, I did say they train for rapid precision, i.e. “expert proficiency” which I allude to in justifying the rational probability that the officer seeing the woman was very pregnant and thus quite probably made an instant command decision to deviate from a center mass shot to one more in line with his conscience without jeopardizing the mission.
I’ve already spent way to much time with this.
Happy Trails.
Hcklbery on September 28 at 5:48 p.m.
CP SAYS:
Hcklbery,
As I would never wish to take someone out of context or misquote someone, I went back and reviewed your posts to make sure I did not do that. When looking back I see quotes from you such as:
“SHE’S GOING DOWN. Wounded only, if I can, dead if I can’t.”
(((((((As a means of relaying my attitude towards those who are mindlessly cop bashing I gave this statement AFTER a lengthy example laying out a hypothetical scenario that made it impossible to avoid shooting a pregnant woman.
YOU MUST OF MISSED THAT PARAGRAPH.))))))))
and
“THE VERY FACT THAT THIS WOMAN IS NOT DEAD IS A TREMENDOUS TESTAMENT TO THE SKILL AND TRAINING OF THE OFFICER GIVEN THE CONDITIONS OF THE CONFRONTATION”
(((((((AS a means of rebutting the assumptions posted that this wounding was definitely accidental I expressed the greater likelihood of an intentionally placed precision shot I wrote Just BEFORE this “The premise for my HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO is that a citizen does not USUALLY as a rule get shot by highly trained members of a specialized drug take down task force.
These guys are NOT your run of the mill patrol beat cops.
They are extremely skilled thru elite training in non lethal enforcement tactics. This is especially true for State Police level operatives.
I go on to say “I AM ASSUMING MUCH HEAR AS THE ARTICLE GIVES LITTLE TO GO ON, however my assumptions”
[[[that an accidental wounding is far less likely than an intentional one]]]
“are rational AND ASSUME the BETTER of these dedicated public servants.”))))))))
[ You must of MISSED those paragraphs to.]>>>
and
“a wounding under such conditions speaks of exceptional skill and experience if indeed the wounding was intentional (which for these highly skilled men is the likeliest)”
(((((((( YOU CHOPPED OUT THE REST OF THE PARAGRAPH AS FOLLOWS>>
The reasoning is thus. Just as you say the TRAINING is SOLELY center mass,, FOR POLICE ACADEMY LEVEL TRAINING, but NOT SO for these specialized guys,))))))))
and
” this officer likely as not SAW her pregnancy and took the extraordinary effort to wound ONLY”
((((((((THE CORRECT QUOTE IS >
According to the article this woman isn’t just pregnant she is VERY PREGNANT, which means this officer likely as not SAW her pregnancy and took the extraordinary effort to wound ONLY, being forced to shoot,
I ALSO SAY >
Just as you say the TRAINING is SOLELY center mass,, FOR POLICE ACADEMY LEVEL TRAINING, but NOT SO for these specialized guys, They hone their responses for all scenarios of possibilities AND probabilities.)))))))
and
“under extreme conditions so a wounding to me is completely in character when so warranted”
THE ENTIRE QUOTE IS>
Having been myself involved in federal tacticals and knowing the men of this venue I would find it difficult to accept what you call a UD as this just doesn’t happen at these levels of expertise. As far as RP (round placement) you must score expert in multiple weapons AND under extreme conditions so a wounding to me is completely in character when so warranted,
(pregnant woman)..
It was just these five statements that led me to believe that you were indicating that an officer would ever “shoot to wound”.
I AM SAYING THEY WOULD INDEED SHOOT TO WOUND.
JUST AS THEY WOULD TO KILL, THEIR TRAINING IS DESIGNED TO BE FLUID YET DECISIVE.
Hcklbery on September 28 at 5:56 p.m.
ONE MORE THING BEFORE I DEPART.
This areas law enforcement desperately needs training in professionalism and some kind of a pledging mantra similar to the military to strengthen their training in motivated professionalism.
I am an American Soldier.
I am a Warrior and a member of a team.
I serve the people of the United States and live the Army Values.
I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
I will never leave a fallen comrade.
I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills.
I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.
I am an expert and I am a professional.
I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.
I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.
I am an American Soldier.
––––––––––––––––––––––––––—
bszottlinger on September 28 at 6:37 p.m.
Cpd805:
Mr. McDevitt, and Mr. Durkin, would have been involved in the discussion. I can’t remember the fellows name from the CR Division but he would have probably lead the discussion with DC because that is his specialty and they would have been calling his boss, who would call his boss, etc.
The government has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that Thompson violated Zehm’s Constitutional Rights. They have a responsibility not only to Mr. Zehm and his family but also the public to put on the very best case they can and if that includes appealing a decision at this level they feel is an important trial issue, then they should. My understanding is that Mr. Oreskovich is one of the best defense lawyers in Spokane, so I’m sure if the roles were reversed, he would do the same thing.
Unfortunately, I think there is probably a lot of ill will between the Feds and the Locals resulting from the Zehm case, there usually is, but everyone has to do their job just like you do, whether it makes people happy or not, and whether people think you are cherry picking or not.
Brad
bszottlinger on September 28 at 6:47 p.m.
Hcklbery:
Yours just didn’t do it for me. I like the ones my guys took.
Enlisted:
I (state your name) do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Officer:
I (state your name) do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; That I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
Semper Fi
cpd805 on September 29 at 8:27 a.m.
Sad……Really? I ask for an example of one of the “local cop videos that show the truly terrible and unprofessional behavior of local law enforcement”, and you direct me to krem.com?!? Well I went to krem.com and I saw no gallery or collection of “cop videos”. I went to the search engine and put in “police videos” and the only ones that portrayed LE in an unfavorable light were some instances that occurred in Seattle.
In case you forgot…you said: “I am in a position where I often send out local cop videos to be analyzed by professional police instructors from out of the area. The response is inevitably jaw-dropping incredulous astonishment at the truly terrible and unprofessional behavior that those videos show. I’m a habitual jokester and a prankster, and some of these guys are long-term associates and friends. Too many times, they are convinced that these genuine videotapes demonstrating laughable, absurdly terrible police misconduct are prank videos copied off joke pages on the internet. They have to be strenuously convinced that these are real videos of real cops in action.”
Again, do you or do you not have in your possession or know how to access ANY of these so-called “real videos of real cops in action” that show any “truly terrible and unprofessional behavior”……or is this assertion of videos just you being the “habitual jokester and a prankster” you call yourself?
If you don’t really have access to any videos of local cops “in action” like you said, then I am sorry for wasting your time by asking you to back up what you say.
cpd805 on September 29 at 8:42 a.m.
Hcklbery,
Holy fly off the handle Batman, I didn’t meant to put you into a tirade of defending your dubious theory of the highly skilled robocops with precision aim enough to INTENTIONALLY shooting to WOUND any one (sounds verrry Hollywood).
But even in your LENGTHY rebuttal (sorry rebuttals…plural), you still seem to assert that it is more likely that the trooper intentionally shot the lady in the shoulder than it being an accidental discharge. I just (completely) disagree with your theory, that’s all. I know the training officers go through and that SWAT members go through, and never have I ever seen anyone trained, encouraged, or otherwise advised it would ever be preferrable to “shoot to wound”. I can’t speak for military, but I can for civilian law enforcement (which is what these guys were).
cpd805 on September 29 at 8:51 a.m.
Brad,
I appreciate the fact that everyone has their job to do, and I understand why they appealed the decision. I don’t understand why a prosecutor would not want to follow the prevailing law of the land when dealing with law enforcement use of force, that being the Graham standard of “what info did the officer have at the time” and “no 20/20 hindsight”. Admitting evidence regarding information that the officer did not know in a trial on whether or not his use of force was reasonable is beyond me. Let them present the facts of the case according to case law. Don’t try to go around it or try to set new precedent.
I only occasionally have contact with the FBI, but I know that those in the JTTF do maintain a good working relationship.
Sadbuttrue on September 29 at 10:10 a.m.
CPD said:
“Well I went to krem.com and I saw no gallery or collection of “cop videos”. I went to the search engine and put in “police videos” and the only ones that portrayed LE in an unfavorable light were some instances that occurred in Seattle.”
I damn well hope that you are not a detective, because if you are, we are truly in greater danger than I ever imagined. This exemplifies what I mean when I argue that the “War on Drugs” has made the cops stupid. In the concentrated and overheated race for felony drug arrests and convictions, it is so much easier to convict when the doper has the drugs on their person and stupidly admits to it, than it is to unwind the factual twists and turns of a complex burglary or murder investigation (that’s why its called “Dope.”) In the amount of time that is required to take a stolen property report and properly investigate it to get maybe one felony arrest, a semi-decent cop can collar 40 or 50 druggies.
cpd805 on September 29 at 5:42 p.m.
Sad, that is a truely inspiring tirade regarding the war on drugs and the comparative complexity of property and drug investigations….But still….do you…or do you not…have access to videos that show local police “in action” showing “truly terrible and unprofessional behavior”. Please don’t respond with your usual hatred toward law enforcement in generalities….please give me some specifics. If you can’t answer my question, then I will have to assume you really don’t have any videos you sent to “professional law enforcement trainers” and you are just not being truthful. Thank You.
Sadbuttrue on September 29 at 7:18 p.m.
Listen, Mr. Detective. You can’t go on KREM.com and type a search that says “cop videos” and have any success. Duh? They are right out there in plain sight. I can’t give you more information because I cherish my anonymity.
Similarly, you can’t google a local burglary and expect google to know who the suspect is, can you? You haven’t solved a murder lately with google, have you? And so, it is highly unlikely that you will find police misconduct videos by typing in “cop videos.” Maybe its just a conspiracy, but for some reason KREM does not make it that easy.
Keep trying, you’ll eventually see what I mean.
cpd805 on September 30 at 3:18 a.m.
Oh no Sad….I did have success. I got some videos of Seattle PD officers in action, but none from Spokane. You CAN type in police videos on Google or krem or other sites and get videos of police in action….some good, some showing misconduct.
You said you had, or had access to, videos of Spokane area cops “in action” that showed “truly terrible and unprofessional behavior”. You could post a link to a video that you say is on krem.com without compromising your anonymity, couldn’t you? If you actually have one in your possession, you could post it on Youtube and post the link here without compromising your anonymity. I’m not buying that excuse.
Since this back and forth is utterly pointless, I’ll stop asking for you to give even ONE example of these videos you said you had analyzed by “professional police trainers”. Since you can’t even give one example, I have to conclude you were being somewhat fanciful and extremely eggageratory in your claims. Sorry, but people aren’t going to trust anything you have to say if you refuse back it up (my guess is that you can’t).
cpd805 on September 30 at 3:40 a.m.
Sad, by the way, here is how you do it:
http://www.krem.com/news/northwest-news/Seattle-police-officer-seen-stomping-on-suspect-in-video-93163959.html
http://www.krem.com/home/related/Police-community-respond-to-video-of-SPD-officer-punching-teen-96483149.html
There, I just posted links to 2 videos referencing Seattle police incidents. Guess what, I have maintained my anonymity.
Sadbuttrue on September 30 at 6:55 a.m.
cpd,
The suspect has left the burglary scene. His footprints, made with ugly-a$$ed but rare Bruno Magli loafers, are clearly visible in six inches of new snow. If you follow those footsteps, blood droplets are visible on the snow from the severe cut caused when the enraged homeowner sliced off the suspect’s ear with a meat cleaver (the elderly homeowner, who watches crime shows all day, fortuitously saved the ear as a souvenir.)
The suspect, now bleeding profusely, stops at a convenience store to buy a loaf of bread to hold against the ear stub to staunch the bleeding, using his visa card to pay. He is clearly identified on the store video cam. Bloody bread crumbs are now visible along with the footprints. The suspect, weakening from loss of blood, leans against a parked car, leaving a perfect bloody finger prints on the driver’s side window. The car is occupied by a local Barney Fife, who is preoccupied with ordering mail-order dildos on his county-issued laptop and is never aware of the suspect’s presence. Ten steps more and the suspect collapses in the snow, and screams loud enough for the entire neighborhood to hear “Okay Okay, I’ll never pull another home invasion again if you let me live this time ….”
We breathlessly await the outcome. Can CPD solve this crime, using heroic police investigative techniques and the department’s new Cray supercomputer? Has the suspect left sufficient DNA evidence to identify himself? Time will tell.
I know this isn’t quite as easy as calling the cops on myself and meekly handing over my bag of drugs when they arrive, but certainly I have given you enough clues.
cpd805 on September 30 at 4:52 p.m.
It’s ok Sad…I get it. Once again, your response absolutely avoided the issue with another pointless scenario and how a computer will not solved that crime. I didn’t ask you to find Jimmy Hoffa with your computer, Sad, I just asked you to post a link to a video. It took me less than 2 minutes to find and post the ones I found above., so again, you have avoided the issue……
And the issue is, and I can say it with a fair amount of certainty…..is that you are a LIAR. You got caught embellishing your skewed point of view with some very inflammatory assertions that, although I doubted from the beginning, I gave you several opportunities to prove. Well, all you have proven is that you lack character, and anything you post has to be taken with a grain (or block) of salt.
I will not be asking for you to prove yourself any further as you have already proven yourself to be untruthful. I will not beat a dead horse by posting any further responses regarding this.
See ya.