Spokane7
65°
April 28, 2011 in City
District classes will get bigger
School board approves temporary change
The Spokane school board voted 4-1 Wednesday to temporarily raise class sizes by up to three students.
The move, when coupled with adjustments for enrollment declines, will result in the elimination of about 90 full-time teaching positions and a savings of $5 million. Spokane Public Schools administrators expect a budget gap for 2011-’12 between $9 million and $12 million, depending on what state lawmakers decide during the ongoing special session.
Jeff Bierman, the lone vote opposed to the plan, wanted to wait to decide on a plan of action until they had a better idea of state funding levels.
“They just shot themselves in the foot with the community,” said Jenni Rose, Spokane Education Association president.
The school board faced a May 15 deadline per union contract to notify certified staff – teachers, librarians and counselors – of potential cuts. Notices will go out next week, school officials said.
The board room was packed with about 175 people who were patient and well-behaved as they awaited board action near the end of its agenda. But many were clearly frustrated.
“I am concerned about the educational future of our children,” said Shadle Park High School teacher Hank Mendoza. “Increasing the class size will take away from our ability to be creative in the classroom.”
Teacher Mike Campbell said, “We have made sacrifices already.”
Class sizes are a bargained item, so the board can only temporarily suspend those limits when there’s a financial emergency. The current limits by grade level are 25 for K-3; 28 for grades 4-6; and 30 for grades 7-12. When the budget improves, the limits have to be restored.
In testimony leading up to the vote, teachers expressed concern about maintaining educational standards with more students in class.
“If class size does change, I think administrators’ expectations should change, too,” said sixth-grade teacher Lynn Carrick.
School officials said they feel the district is in a financial emergency situation because, in addition to $54 million in cuts in recent years, $8 million in federal stimulus money will drop off in 2011-’12 and the district took a midyear cut of $4 million.
“We are not adopting a budget tonight; this is one of the first steps we have to take,” said school board director Rocky Treppiedi. “This is only about the economic emergency that this district is facing.”
Class sizes could be increased across the board, and include Advanced Placement, English language learning, physical education and special education classes.
In addition to certified staff, cuts in administrative and support staff will also be necessary. The district expects to cut at least 150 positions.
“If the state’s budget comes in better than expected,” said Staci Vesneske, assistant superintendent, “we could call back more of the impacted personnel.”
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oneanddone on April 28 at 4:50 a.m.
“If class size does change, I think administrators’ expectations should change, too,” …
Amen. As the saying goes, there’s no such thing as a free lunch.
richardthelionhearted on April 28 at 5:37 a.m.
The “Executive DIrectors” still remain sacred at over $100,000+ per year while low level teachers hit the road. What other administrative cuts are they talking about? It won’t be from the top that is for sure. Also, how about that 5% pay raise the Principals got this year? Did the board demand that back? No! These cuts will drastically affect YOUR kids in more ways than you know! Administrators, your will HAVE to expect less, not more from your staff with these increases. Also taking the “weight” off of Special Education kids makes the class size increase WAY more than the 3 additional kids. Actually the increase in class size COULD be from 3-8 additional kids. Don’t let them kid you!
eagleproducer on April 28 at 6:35 a.m.
Why hasn’t the state or district offered some type of incentive to get teachers with the most seniority (and highest salaries) to retire early. Early retirement is always considered by companies that have to downsize, why not in education? A new teacher makes 1/3 what one near retirement does and there is not one single shred of evidence that an experienced teacher is better at their job than a newer teacher. In fact, the almost all research points to the opposite.
I had classes in another state with 40 kids at the high school level. You stop really teaching and become more of a babysitter and cow herder. I had nearly two hundred students in five language arts classes. Assigning an essay meant I read 200 papers in rough and final forms. Even if I give each paper a half hour, including comments, that means an additional 100 hours of work OUTSIDE of contracted hours (2.5 weeks for most of you) and it often takes much longer to provide commentary and advice that will help the student.
Contract out the food and custodial services. Lunch lady and custodian guy don’t need to be bringing home fifty grand plus bennies while teachers are being let go.
madscientist on April 28 at 7:07 a.m.
glad my kid goes to private school. Public education is a joke, seriously very funny.
Ninch on April 28 at 7:13 a.m.
Time for teachers to look at diverse teaching strategies instead of whining about 3 extra kids per class…also referred to above as being a “cow herder.” Same ol’ BS… too many kids equals too much work. (Way past time to let teachers with such attitudes go.) Hint: Teaching should be a PROFESSION instead of counting the number of “outside” hours per a contract (which btw was not a mandate but rather negotiated by your union). Get a better union negotiator if that sadly is where your priorities are… or change professions. Bottom line: QUIT WHINING.
Also…Why don’t you know how to read and comprehend???Realize that the 90 union workers (certified and non-certified staff) have to be notified by May 15 because of contracts so this action was done first, but a whole bunch of administrative and support staff (non-union) will also be on the layoff list (150) with no such notification deadline.
Ninch on April 28 at 7:21 a.m.
“No such thing as a free lunch.” Seriously? Teachers are paid very well with good benefits… yet some believe that with larger class sizes that teaching expectations should be reduced? Yes, get rid of these teachers who shy away from more work (and want standards for their performance reduced). They seem to not want to meet the challenge and instead want a “free ride.” I guess when one gets tenure, one gets lazy.
Note: That the private sector when “downsizing” expect more production per worker and if one cannot meet that challenge then one loses their job.
ManleyPointer on April 28 at 9:07 a.m.
$10,000 per student, folks, and THIS is what we get? Between the unions and the administration, the poor students are paying the price by receiving a fourth-rate education. Get rid of the unions, trim curricula back to basics, cut administration in half, make sports pay-to-play, and see what happens.
avocet on April 28 at 9:11 a.m.
Well said, Ninch, but you are probably going to get blasted for saying all that. For some reason, schools and teachers seem to think they should be immune to feeling the pain most of the rest of us have been feeling for years. Where I work, we have lost positions, so those of us who are left are expected to hold up the workload. Then there are those who don’t even have a job anymore, thanks to the economy.
I always felt that “reduced class sizes” equated to a hidden pay raise for teachers. Less work for the same pay IS essentially a raise. Now it’s time to join the rest of us who are doing MORE work for the same, in some cases, less pay.
Yes there are mandates, but you really can’t get blood from a turnip. Time to wake up and smell the coffee.
With that said, teachers/schools can’t do it alone. I’s more important than ever for parents to be involved in their own kids’ education.
mauijim on April 28 at 9:31 a.m.
Madscientist. Public education is not a joke. I am guessing your kids would do well in the crappy public education system because you are probably involved and hold your kids accountable. Most people couldn’t last a day doing the job a teacher does.
pseeger on April 28 at 9:46 a.m.
What is “seriously very funny”, Madscientist? Did you intend to come off as an arrogant elitist, or was that accidental?
DickAdams on April 28 at 9:46 a.m.
With a board director like Rocky Treppiedi the taxpayers don`t stand a chance. And lest we forget, Treppiedi thinks the administration should tighten up the rules for public records saying they are giving out too much information and it should be reduced. He even pleaded to the state AG asking him to change the public records laws so they (he) would not have to provide as much info as they pass out currently. Nice guy, huh?
eagleproducer on April 28 at 9:55 a.m.
Less students do not equal less work. It means more focused attention and ALL the research indicates that smaller class sizes lead to higher student achievement. Contrary to what the previous posts claim, teachers bargained for smaller class sizes because we know it helps students, not because we don’t want more work.
Teachers don’t earn anywhere near what other licensed professionals who make similar higher education investments in their futures. In addition, the nations that are whooping the U.S. in education have much more respect for their education professionals and their salaries reflect it. I’ve long stated that the biggest problem with public education are the salaries because they will not, in most cases, attract the best people to work in that profession. Most teachers were in the lower 1/3 of their entering class in college and that’s not going to improve by wrongly blaming their unions for the budget problems and making work conditions less rewarding.
It is erroneous to claim teachers and schools feel we are immune to budget cuts. Education has taken the brunt of cuts over the past several years and after a while someone needs to say enough is enough. If that has to be something reserved for teachers, so be it. We’ve long been used to being the only true advocates for your children.
cdaterry1 on April 28 at 10:02 a.m.
amazing where our societies priorities are….teachers hold the “brains of our future” in their class rooms - academically and socially in having to deal with more and more broken family homes…the dumbing down of America continues with our emphasis on sports and gambling casinos…the dumbing down of America continues…..when are our “heros” - fireman and police going to be required to “make a sacrifice?….the top 10 fire dept admin make $160k each per year….and we complain about teacher pay??
Dazzeetrader11 on April 28 at 10:15 a.m.
Let’s not make the union teachers some class of “poor suffering in silence” group.
They don’t do much and are not held accountable for the students’ performance in school. SUperior teachers are available in public and private schools.
Unions and the WEA cloud that. A few kids extra in a classroom is nothing. Kids still learn…and they learn well if their parents impart that ethic.
This is nothing. Families, children, decent teachers…it can work well.
Besides..look at the colleges..100 to 1 is the usualy ratio in college classes.
Kids need to be ready for that as well.
westerly on April 28 at 10:22 a.m.
http://www.theolympian.com/stateteachersalary/
real story here..
mickmick on April 28 at 10:28 a.m.
From a concerned parent:
Why is the district increasing class size across the board K-12? An increase at the primary level has a far greater impact on students given their younger age. High school students who go on to college will be in classes that can go up to hundreds enrolled (not that I’m proposing that as a solution). Clearly there should be more consideration given to the ages of the students who will be impacted. I would suggest, for example, that grades K-3 not be increased; grades 4-5 increase of one or two; grades 6-8 increase up to 4; and grades 9-12 increase at a determined percentage of current enrollment on a class by class basis.
happyteacher1 on April 28 at 10:48 a.m.
I am a teacher. A happy one at that. I am OK with my salary (I am not even near retirement), but when you start bashing teachers, it is not right. Let me give you a picture of what we deal with.
When 50% of our students come from broken homes, we are not only being asked to teach, but also being asked to parent kids who aren’t even our own.
When a student comes in because they are pregnant, abused, homeless, etc., now we are their counselors.
When students come in with no lunch money because their parents are broke, now we are their providers.
When students come in every day to visit because they view you as their hero, that comes with a lot more pressure than you think, not to mention they really should be looking at their parents for this.
Teachers do more than just teach…we educate students about life.
I agree with previous posters that say most people wouldn’t last a day in a classroom.
madscientist on April 28 at 11:22 a.m.
Mauijim, pseeger,
I do hold my kids accountable as all parents should. What I meant about the public school system being a joke is that it seems to be a bunch of politics, “board members” playing around with tax payer money. The cirriculum also teaches to the least smartest kid, “no child left behind” means that 2nd graders d0 4+4 math problems all year long. The smarter kids are slowed down so the kids that are struggling can keep up. I also don’t like the fact that teachers do not work 3 months of the year but get paid a whole year salary, and they could be a lousy teacher and still get pay raises due to being union.
Ninch on April 28 at 11:48 a.m.
Yeh… I may get blasted for high expectations from teachers who in Eastern Washington/Spokane do get paid very well. Having said that… I have spent time in the classroom as a substitute. The teaching part is relatively easy compared to knowing/using strategies to control classrooms. Some teachers are great at classroom management while others do not have a clue, but then they could learn effective classroom management if they would only ask for help from their peers and administration.
Again, most of the whining is about more work such as grading a few more papers. Big deal. Look at the other professionals: lawyers, architects/engineers, medical professionals, and more. All work long hours mostly without any extra pay for overtime because they are categorized as “exempt” and thus are paid a monthly salary and not paid by the hour nor per union rules… as well as most professionals work 12 months in a year. Evaluate their salaries over a year compared to teachers, and one will discover that teachers have it really good regarding earnings as well as most teachers have more benefits with lower out of pocket costs.
Bottom line… Many teachers need to quit whining about compensation and workloads. If these teachers do not like their situation, then they need to switch careers. BTW: I know many teachers who really enjoy their career and do not complain about hours worked or compensation.
Thoreau on April 28 at 12:06 p.m.
Ninch, as a substitute teacher, how many papers have you taken home to grade? NONE! I bet.
And for those who think the extra bodies in the classroom are not an added burden, consider taking in one of your kid’s friends when you help him/her with homework. That is, if you even do that for your own kid.
eagleproducer on April 28 at 12:39 p.m.
Subs also don’t design lessons and curriculum either. I didn’t complain about having to grade extra work, I simply pointed out how long it takes to provide even cursory assessment and commentary of student work.
Ninch obviously couldn’t cut it in the classroom. Most can’t. Kids see through phoniness.
happyteacher1 on April 28 at 1:32 p.m.
About salaries…a beginning teacher with a family of 4 qualifies for free and reduced lunches, what sense does that make? We are trying to educate students to be self sufficient members of society, yet a teacher can qualify for assistance for their own family. Seems contadictory to me.
As for being paid 12 months out of the year…it doesn’t matter. Pay me for 9 months, it will still be the same amount of $$ just more each month. I can save each month and pay myself in the summer. In fact, some districts give their employees the choice of a 9 or 12 month pay schedule.
Bucky on April 28 at 1:40 p.m.
As the spouse of a teacher, I’m very familiar with the challenges these professionals encounter. I agree with the sentiment that many could not handle (care to take on) the expectations and time commitment required of this job.
I used to think the same thing about “oh they get three month’s off…”, well, if they are dedicated, hard working (i.e hours and hours pre/post classroom), creative, and compentent, they have more than earned this time. The time off usually adds up to a couple of months.
langap on April 28 at 4:15 p.m.
Okay- let’s get something straight with regards to this whole “three months off” business”: do I get some time to relax with my family over the summer? Yes. I also must maintain 150 clock hours every five years too keep my certification current. This is in addition to the college degrees I have earned to get the job in the first place. That’s fine. When do I have the time out of the classroom to track down all that professional development, a fair amount of it I pay for? The summer. And then there’s the time I spend planning for the upcoming year, and getting my classroom and materials ready. And reading any new materials I plan to teach or am told to teach. Bottom line: I am working a fair amount of the summer- sure, I get some time off, but don’t think for a minute I sit around for ninety days doing nothing. I am not the only one, either- that’s what we all have to do to keep our jobs, stay current, and be the professionals we need to be for your kids.
mrd on April 28 at 6:37 p.m.
By reading many of the above comments it is quite clear many people have no clue what it is like to be a professional educator. If it’s so easy and the pay is so good, why don’t you spend $30,000 plus to get certified. Just because you attended school, doesn’t mean you know anything about the job.
I love all of the outside experts who know everything about teaching but have never done the job. Class size matters - period!
avocet on April 28 at 9:35 p.m.
“well, if they are dedicated, hard working (i.e hours and hours pre/post classroom), creative, and compentent, they have more than earned this time. The time off usually adds up to a couple of months.”
Sorry, teachers don’t have a corner on being “hard working,” and besides, that is NOT the reason for 3 months off. It’s due to an antiquated calendar based on a farming lifestyle. As for the two months off, that is far more than most people get.
“Teachers don’t earn anywhere near what other licensed professionals who make similar higher education investments in their futures.”
And teachers work 3/4 of the time other licensed professionals do, so they should get 3/4 of the pay, generally speaking.
“I also must maintain 150 clock hours every five years too keep my certification current. This is in addition to the college degrees I have earned to get the job in the first place.”
So? Again, PLENTY of people in other professions have similar requirements but don’t have 3+ months off every year to accomplish them.
Sorry, but teachers so far have been largely insulated from the cuts and pain the rest of us have had to deal with. As has been stated already, it comes across as whining.