Spokane7
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April 28, 2011 in City
Panels find Creach shooting reasonable
Department, citizen boards clear deputy
Spokane County Sheriff’s Deputy Brian Hirzel acted “in a reasonable manner” when he fatally shot a 74-year-old pastor last summer in Spokane Valley, two departmental reviews have concluded.
“Deputy Brian Hirzel’s use of force in this incident was reasonable based on policies of the Spokane County Sheriff’s Office,” the department said, citing its Deadly Force Review Board’s conclusions.
Spokane County Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich also had his department’s 12-member Citizen Advisory Board review the Aug. 25 shooting of pastor Wayne Scott Creach. That board essentially came to the same conclusion, according to Sgt. Dave Reagan, the department’s spokesman.
The board wrote to Knezovich on April 11, “We felt that though this was a tragic incident, Sheriff’s Deputy Brian Hirzel acted in a reasonable manner based on our review of the case files,” Reagan said in a news release.
The pastor’s son, Alan Creach, questioned the timing of the release, noting it came a day after he requested that the Spokane Valley City Council bar Knezovich from using unmarked patrol vehicles in city limits. Spokane Valley contracts with the Sheriff’s Office for law enforcement services.
“That’s like a slap in the face. I guess they think they can roll their unmarked cars onto private property and blow somebody away and get away with it,” Creach said. “It’s not surprising, but disappointing.”
Creach said he wanted to know the identity of the citizens on the advisory board. Reagan noted that the board posed “specific questions and concerns” to the Sheriff’s Office after reviewing case files for two weeks; Creach would like to know what those questions were.
Reagan didn’t return messages seeking comment Wednesday afternoon.
The shooting occurred after Hirzel parked his unmarked patrol vehicle in the parking lot of Creach’s nursery, The Plant Farm, at 14208 E. Fourth Ave.
The elder Creach, who lived alongside the nursery, armed himself with a .45 caliber pistol – as he previously had done several times during suspicious circumstances on his property – and approached the vehicle.
Hirzel told investigators that he repeatedly ordered Creach to drop the gun, but investigators could find no neighbors who heard any of that exchange. Only Creach’s wife, Imogene, reported hearing anything, and she described what sounded like her husband yelling out in fear before the shot was fired.
Hirzel said Creach initially responded that he didn’t have to drop his gun, and mentioned that he had had problems with theft in the past. But Creach eventually put the gun in the back waistband of his pants.
Hirzel then ordered Creach onto the ground, but Creach refused. Hirzel couldn’t remember exactly when he called for backup but said he struck Creach on the outside of the left knee with a police baton. Then, Hirzel said, Creach reached for his gun.
“When, when I saw his hand go behind his back and come out with a gun, or the grip of the gun that I saw, there wasn’t a doubt in my mind that he was going to shoot me,” Hirzel told investigators, according to transcripts.
Spokane County Prosecutor Steve Tucker declined to charge Hirzel criminally after his chief deputy’s analysis showed that Hirzel did not act with malice toward Creach, which would be required under state law for an officer to be held criminally responsible for a shooting.
Reagan added in his news release that a further review based on concerns raised by the Creach family is continuing and should be completed sometime next month.
But Alan Creach said it’s not enough.
“I just think this is one more instance of a government that has gone awry through their willingness to overlook an action that is unjustifiable,” Creach said. “If we let this event stand, then the beating and the killing will continue.”
1992 murder trial begins against sex offender 
berrybestfarm on April 28 at 7:37 a.m.
Frankly, if an “officer” (was he even in uniform?) hit me with a baton because I wouldn’t follow an unlawfull command, on my own private property no less, my instinctive reaction would be to strike back or use all means available to protect myself. It is inconveivable to me how any one could call the use of deadly force in this case reasonable.
Dennis Patterson—Deer Park
TheRoo on April 28 at 8:16 a.m.
It’s always comforting when the police investigate the police and are able to tell the police that the police have done nothing wrong.
It’s all tied up in two weeks in Vegas to allow time for every one at the donut shop to get on the same page.
But, since the cop is the only surviving witness, he can say whatever he wants without concern for the truth if he wants to.
lewis8457 on April 28 at 8:26 a.m.
no civil liberties is how they came to their conclusion. The people of Washington state have no civil liberties when they are confronted by police. Steve Tucker explained it to us last year, that is why all cop versus citizen shootings are justified.
If a police officer confronts you, you ave no right except to follow hos commands. Even if he is in the wrong, you or I can not do anything but obey. That is why they will never get Thompson for Otto’s death. Mr. Creach as well had no civil liberties the second Hirzel saw him and quickly zipped up his pants to confront him. The only right he had or any of us has is take the beating and hopefully live through it, and if not oh well.
Honestly I don’t understand why the Creach family stays in Washington, I would have moved out long ago. And taken my tax money with me.
Ron_the_Cop on April 28 at 8:40 a.m.
The Roo,
Whether you know it or not you hit on two fundamental issues in this case as to why the truth of this tragic event may still be uncovered:
1. There is nly one surviving witness
2. The delay in formal interviewing Dep. Hirzel
The investigation by SPD was fundamentally flawed for a number of reasons. Based on the facts as presented to review panels based on the statements of Dep. Hirzel, the panels decisions are understandable.
HOWEVER what if Dep. Hirzel’s statements are in parts untrue or rationalizations for mistakes he made? I have issues with the statements of Dep. Hirzel based on the evidence and forensics that are as yet unresolved.
I’m a thirty-five year law enforcement veteran from a large SoCal City. Google my name here on the S-R site for my professional background. As I’ve said many times before my biases are with the police rank and file having been a union president.
There are multiple shooting scenarios. Because of the flawed nature of the SPD investigation we can’t exclude any with any certainty. That’s the problem - garbage in garbage out. These scenarios range from the criminal, bad tactics and training to the one as described by Dep. Hirzel. These all have significance for police policy, practice, procedure and training so that we don’t have event like the Creach OIS occur again.
I personally met with Sheriff Knezovich and presented my report and analysis of this tragic OIS. I would hope the sheriff addresses my issues in his final review. I really have no dog in this fight other than I expect a higher quality of law enforcement than I’ve seen so far. Most of my issues regarding law enforcement involve police leadership and the county prosecutor’s office.
To see my full report as a source of additional information beyond the limits of these media articles rehashing the SO’s press release, see my comment in the other thread:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/apr/27/sheriff-concludes-pastors-shooting-was-reasonable/?comments#c291700
Det. Ron Wright (Retired)
Riverside PD, CA
Squid on April 28 at 8:57 a.m.
If I kill someone, can I have a jury of convicted murderers? If I steal something, can I have a jury of convicted thieves? If I am busted for drugs, can I have a jury of convicted drug users?
It’s funny that the cops are backing the cops. Reasonable is an opinion of those who would prefer to whack all of their clients who give them the slightest amount of trouble.
Here is a good experiment for you. Take a billy club, and hit your grandpa in the knee with it in a forceful manner. (Gramps must be at least 70 years old and taking blood thinners.) Let me know if there is evidence of that strike after you do that. Report what you find.
Just when does it become unreasonable for a highly trained officer in prime shape, to shoot a feeble 74 year old preacher, who is on his knees, on his own property, when you are trespassing and hacking your goofy in the dark, when he never pointed an empty chambered gun at you, and you never commanded him to do anything?
Could I get away with that, if I just say I was in fear of my life?
Ron_the_Cop on April 28 at 9:15 a.m.
Sorry in my first sentence
uncovered = covered :-)
eagleproducer on April 28 at 9:23 a.m.
Never confuse “reasonable” with doing the right thing.
DickAdams on April 28 at 9:50 a.m.
Is Hirzel still pimping porno stuff?
lewis8457 on April 28 at 10:38 a.m.
Yes I hear the new SVPD approved doll his wife is selling is quite a hit. “Patrol Lap Attendant”, now they can appear to be alert on the job while doing the John Henry.
and if they happen to shoot you, oh well you should have knew something was up when the doll was smiling.
valleyman on April 28 at 3:58 p.m.
You folks make me ill…
Until you can tell me how you can get a VOLUNTEER to go through hundreds of hours of classes, get street experience in REAL WORLD scenarios, and then get training on the psychological impact of carrying a gun and knowing you might have to use it at any given time to take another’s life, you have no business saying that the police shouldn’t investigate their own.
The military investigates their own through courts martial… Another perfect example of letting someone who has walked the walk and understands the logistics make the decisions and do the investigating.
It’s time to let a little bit of common sense permeate the crazed-emotional outcry over this. In the real world, bad things happen to good people - just ask Deputy Hirzel.
Ron_the_Cop on April 28 at 4:23 p.m.
Valleyman,
I just answered your post in the other thread. Im sorry I make you sick.
Squid on April 28 at 6:21 p.m.
Valleyman, with all of that training, you would think any officer should be able to subdue an elderly man without shooting him. Maybe your trainers suck????? Or is it the officers? I am pretty sure I could take control of a 74 year old man with arthritis without all of that training, especially if I had a billy club, a taser, and mace. Go ahead and tell me just how intimidating this man was. Tell me about how scared Hirzel was. Would you be terrified enough to pull the trigger? If so, you shouldn’t be a cop. You should be a hairdresser or a flight attendant.
Thayne on April 28 at 6:45 p.m.
Valleyman - in his lies, I mean statements. Hirzel said he hit Mr. Creach with his baton - no evidence found. He said he felt threatened when he saw the “butt” of the weapon. If he saw the butt of the weapon that means Mr. Creach’s hand was not on it. Also, the last time I fired a gun no bullets came out of the butt of it (fortunately). Hirzel’s fairy tails were believed without nearly enough investigation. It was not surprising. The Sheriffs investigated the Zhem case and found nothing wrong and the SPD investigates the Creach case and finds nothing wrong. Nobody saw that coming.
valleyman on April 28 at 11:39 p.m.
Ron,
You personally do not make me sick. I think you genuinely believe you are doing something for the right reasons… Others… Well, heck, at least you put some thought and some fact behind what you say.
Your comment above, however, raises some concerns for me. If you are going to play the ‘what if’ game as it seems you are by saying: “HOWEVER what if Dep. Hirzel’s statements are in parts untrue or rationalizations for mistakes he made? I have issues with the statements of Dep. Hirzel based on the evidence and forensics that are as yet unresolved…” how can you possibly claim objectivity?
A person can look at evidence many different ways. As a former police officer, I know you understand this principle. However, physical evidence tends to point in a direction, and from that direction extrapolations are made and suppositions are formed.
What I find troubling is that, despite your concerns over the way this was done (you have made it clear you would have done it differently), you are not a member of law enforcement anymore. You are not an elected official. You are not the Sheriff. You are a private citizen who has raised your concern and, while you may truly believe that your way is the best, others have disagreed.
A decision was rendered, a finding made, and an officer of the law cleared of wrongdoing (up to this point, as a further internal investigation is being undertaken). For you to throw out the big “what if…” only serves to poison the well at this point…
What if… you are wrong? What if… the department discovers a violation of protocol occurred? What if… it happened just like the deputy said it did? What then? I hope you can see where this ‘what if’ game has the potential to lead…
My final point is this: In my experience, rarely is everyone satisfied with the end result of anything. To be the lone voice howling against the wind is your right, and I applaud you for courage and integrity and I’ll defend your right to keep on howling. Heck… if you believed so passionately (as I believe you do) that you know how to do things better than they are done up here, you run for Sheriff. Heck, maybe I’d even vote for you… In the mean time, you’ve made your case it seems it doesn’t hold water for our ELECTED officials.
ChefGus/ John Olsen on April 29 at 5:59 a.m.
This remains a tragic event. The facts are that in the real world all of the training and reflexes for our fine officers revolve around fear. Every police officer has a little “nut” of fear in their gut EVERY time they approach even a simple traffic stop in the middle of the day even on a busy street.
Pattern recognition is part of the combat arena.
A person walking toward you with a 1911 in their hand MUST be considered lethal. A five inch barrel and a 230 grain “ball” in the chamber makes a reasonable marksman “lethal” from 25 yards out. 8 rounds from the semi automatic are not to be taken lightly, or taken at all if you want to continue to live.
Anyone with a visible large caliber semi auto must be considered as a direct threat. Had the pastor been unarmed or been carrying a concealed weapon, he likely would not have died.
The review boards and investigations in this case all led to the same conclusion, and Officer Hirzel did react with his training and pattern recognition. Perhaps Pastor Creech would never have fired a round but there is no way the officer could know that.
Simple rule of thumb is do NOT brandish a firearm unless you are going to use it… The NRA and Military and Police training is based on that simple hard fact… the person on the other end of the barrel likely will assume you are lethal. captain john
Squid on April 29 at 9:52 a.m.
Chef Gus, in the simplest form, I would agree, but officers should be trained to use all options that would end a conflict without killing someone, and at the last resort, kill. Seems to me that Hirzel had so many options that wouldn’t have ended this way. The brief summary is: Mr. Creach surprised Hirzel with a gun and was shot and killed. That seems reasonable, but there is much more to the story than that, and it is one sided and hard to believe. The simpler the story, the easier is is to believe. This brief summary is what I keep hearing from the police and their supporters. The details of the few seconds, are where the problem lies. The lies are where the problem lies.
Only car salesmen and cops are promoted on the quality of their lies. The best lies get the most and best outcomes, which are guilty verdicts, and cops are rewarded for that. The best liars make detective and other higher ranks. Creative interrogating gets confessions. Basically, they are paid liars, and the best liars get the highest esteem and highest rank. I don’t believe for a second, that Hirzel saw the gun come out of the waist band, especially when Mr. Creach knew he was at an extreme disadvantage. Mr. Creach would never have pulled the gun. Hirzel’s story stinks and I don’t believe a word of it. Do you believe all or any of it?
Hirzel’s story may make the outcome “reasonable,” in the eyes of the review boards, advisory boards, and whatever panel, but he did have the power and training to overtake Mr. Creach. That is what they are trained to do, or used to be trained to do. That is assuming that any of Hirzel’s story is at all true, which I am highly doubtful. I think Hirzel was sent to Vegas, so the best minds, could think of the very best story, to clear the Sheriff’s Dept. of any wrongdoing, in the shooting of an elderly business owning preacher on his own property. As we have seen, it made NATIONAL news, because the story is so unbelievable that it could ever happen. It is unbelievable to me, that any of Hirzel’s story ever happened the way he said it did. It is unbelievable that Hirzel couldn’t have created a different ending to this story.
Ron_the_Cop on April 29 at 11:06 a.m.
Valleyman,
For others that didn’t see my response to you in the other thread:
Squid,
While I don’t agree with all of your points, I do agree there is much more to this tragic story then we know independent of Dep. Hirzel’s statements after the fact. I differ from my friend, ChefGus, on this point. That’s the fundamental problem and my issue with the SPD’s OIS investigation, we still don’t know the full truth of what happened that night. At this point I’m not willing to give Dep. Hirzel the benefit of the doubt. Read my report and analysis [ http://tinyurl.com/4wz2fpc - see link at the top for the original post ]
Beyond whether this shooting was criminally justified or not there are very significant issues involving police policy, procedure and training that must be addressed to prevent such tragic events from occurring in the future. This is what we as CITIZENS can demand of our law enforcement professionals.
The question is whether Sheriff Knezovich will address these issues in his IA review/investigation of this incident.
Det. Ron Wright (Retired)
ChefGus/ John Olsen on April 29 at 12:10 p.m.
Thanks for the comments guys… It IS much more complex than it seems on the surface…and a convoluted series of events and investigative facts… and I am Not blaming Pastor Creech… in any real sense… but if I have my 1911 out, and in my hand you can be darn sure there is a round in the chamber and it is cocked and on safety… and I am likely to use it…. The “pattern recognition” around that for the person on the other end would be just what Deputy Hirzel thought/felt.
If I had mistakenly drawn my locked and loaded weapon and a police officer told me to put it down… I would just do that.. and spread eagle as soon as I could… john
Squid on April 29 at 12:19 p.m.
Ron, you may be the exception to the rule when it comes to being an honest cop or detective. I am sorry if I offended you. I should make a point that there are cops with good intentions and not all are bad. I have to hope that training is changed to promote officers to make an effort to use more psychology, and less lethal force. It’s the harder path to follow, but the outcome is FAR better for everyone.
I am all for using deadly force when it’s necessary. None of the OIS cases have been dangerous criminals. Not a one. I could understand if the cops were shooting gangsters, tweekers who were armed, or violent criminals. All have been functional people with families, other than the lady passenger in the North Idaho shooting, but the cop didn’t know who the passenger was when he shot her. There was also the guy off Northwest Blvd with the shotgun, but that was extra sloppy. It was a miracle that one of those 34 bullets didn’t wax an innocent bystander.
Too many officer involved killings have been ruled “reasonable,” so they keep moving the line in the sand. Otto seems to have pushed that line pretty far, and reasonable seems to have no bounds. Business owning, elderly preachers, protecting their property, has set the bar so high, I can no longer see it.
What would it take to cross the line of reasonable now? Deaf and blind Boy Scout with an unloaded slingshot? We already had a deaf Native 15 year old, with a BB gun.
The quickest, safest, and easiest way to end a conflict, is to bust a cap in the subject. With very little effort, the end of the conflict can have far better results for everyone. I can’t imagine that hair trigger Hirzel can show his face in public after this situation.
How about snuffing a pedophile or an armed robber for a change of pace?
Squid on April 29 at 12:31 p.m.
Gus, I don’t think the cops give you the opportunity to put the gun down these days, as witnessed by the Groom shooting and the DV with the knife. The witnesses in the Groom shooting said the cops fired before Groom could turn to see who was shouting the commands to drop the weapon. Same story with the DV with the knife. To add insult to lethal injury, they were branded as suicidal, which I don’t believe for a second.
I highly suggest you get a double action revolver for protection, since you don’t have to chamber a round or take the safety off. Less steps, and more accurate too, unless you have had a ton of custom work done to it. Just my thoughts.