August 12, 2011 in Nation/World

Challenge to health reform scores victory

By Julie Carr Smith Associated Press

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Opponents of the federal health care overhaul championed by President Barack Obama scored a key legal victory on Friday that should clear a proposed ballot measure for a fall vote in a pivotal state.

The chance for voters to reject parts of insurance changes will appear Nov. 8, alongside a ballot issue seeking to repeal a contentious rewrite of Ohio’s law restricting collective bargaining. The first is expected to bring out Republican-leaning voters, and the other is expected to bring out Democrats in a state closely divided along political lines.

In a unanimous decision Friday, the Ohio Supreme Court rejected a liberal policy group’s lawsuit challenging certification of the issue, to be called the Health Care Freedom Amendment, on the grounds petitions carrying 69,000 signatures were flawed.

ProgressOhio executive director Brian Rothenberg argued that Secretary of State Jon Husted counted signatures on petitions that contained technical errors, including the way paid circulators listed their employment.

Husted, a Republican, argued the challenge revolved around petitions carrying extra information, a practice government should not discourage.

Justices said the secretary of state is “entitled to deference.”

They found that Rothenberg’s charges lacked legal merit, noting “even if his challenge had substantive validity, Rothenberg’s evidence is insufficient to establish that the part-petitions do not have enough signatures.”

Backers of the measure lauded the decision. Ohioans for Healthcare Freedom campaign manager Jeff Longstreth said it will allow “voters to have a choice this fall if healthcare decisions should be made by patients and doctors or politicians in Washington, D.C.”

Husted announced July 27 that the coalition of tea party organizations and other groups behind the measure that submitted 427,000 valid signatures, well over the roughly 385,000 needed to get the amendment on the Nov. 8 ballot.

The proposed amendment to Ohio’s Constitution would keep people from being required to buy health insurance or face penalties. The federal mandate would go into effect in 2014, when new competitive insurance exchanges are scheduled to open.

Opponents say the federal government is overreaching by requiring individuals to purchase a product. The Obama administration counters that Congress’ power to regulate interstate commerce squares the constitutionality of the mandate.

The Ohio court’s decision came as a panel of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta struck down the same requirement at issue in Ohio. Other federal courts have ruled or considered the issue, but the Atlanta-based court may be the most pivotal battleground yet because it reviewed a sweeping ruling by a Florida judge.

Rothenberg said ProgressOhio was hindered from fully reviewing all the submitted petitions because 40 percent of Ohio counties refused to respond to a public records request in the time allotted for review.

“Ohioans will now have a choice — to return to the days when children were denied insurance coverage over pre-existing conditions; return to the days when seniors have to choose between prescription drugs and groceries; return to the days when young adults can’t stay on their parents insurance and return to the days when small businesses did not get tax breaks for providing insurance,” he said in a statement. “This fall ’no’ will be a beautiful word.”

53 comments on this story so far. Add yours!

polistra on August 12 at 11:33 a.m.
These semi-final results won’t matter much. Like all important legislation, it will come in the end to Anthony Kennedy, who is the US Legislature.
He will make a perfectly random decision, following in the proud tradition of the previous US Legislature, Sandra Day O’Connor.
Squid on August 12 at 11:44 a.m.
So you mean we might not get another huge bill at the end of every month that will skyrocket inflation, explode the cost of living, and bankrupt almost all of our small businesses when our employees can’t afford to drive to work?
Change we can believe in!
Squid on August 12 at 11:46 a.m.
If you think health care is expensive now, just wait till it’s free!
The_Seer on August 12 at 11:51 a.m.
I thought conservatives were about personal responsibility? It certainly doesn’t appear to be the case with their opposition to the health insurance mandate. What they are saying is that it is okay to remain uninsured and then expect the rest of us to pick up the bill when you get injured/sick.
When Bob Dole offerred a counter proposal to “Hillarycare” in the 90’s, the personal mandate was part of his plan and conservatives backed it because of the personal responsibility mantra. Now, since it comes from a Democrat president, it’s over-reach of government?
Dazzeetrader11 on August 12 at 11:54 a.m.
Poll Date Sample For/Favor Against/Oppose Spread
RCP Average 5/8 - 8/6 — 38.8 50.6 Against/Oppose +11.8
Rasmussen Reports* 8/5 - 8/6 1000 LV 40 54 Against/Oppose +14
Associated Press/GfK 6/16 - 6/20 1001 A 36 46 Against/Oppose +10
CNN/Opinion Research 6/3 - 6/7 1015 A 39 56 Against/Oppose +17
CBS News 6/3 - 6/7 1024 A 37 48 Against/Oppose +11
Politico/GWU/Battleground* 5/8 - 5/12 1000 LV 42 49 Against/Oppose +7
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law
Obamacare doesn’t have a mandate…
Given that the Court might have Kagan recuse ( or force her to) herself, Obamacare doesn’ appear to have much of a future. Even With Kagan, the Court is a conservative one these days.
His centerpiece will crumble. …not all of it but the bigger things. PLUS it’s not affordable given the advancing deficit.
gmorton on August 12 at 12:01 p.m.
The_Seer wrote,
“What they are saying is that it is okay to remain uninsured and then expect the rest of us to pick up the bill when you get injured/sick.”
Oh, certainly not. Libertarians, at least, do not expect anyone else to pick up the tab for their health care. If you find yourself doing that, you can lay the blame on the lefties who concocted the EMTALA and the various State mandates requiring insurers to accept high-cost customers and pass the costs on to other customers, and requiring hospitals to deliver charity care. Libertarians had nothing to do with those free lunch schemes.
RedCedar on August 12 at 12:02 p.m.
This is an article about a court ruling on some arcane technicalities about the validity of signatures on some petition, based on some extra verbiage about the signature-gatherer’s employment, to put a question about federal health insurance on the ballot. The judge did not rule for or against health, insurance, or the federal government. All he said was that the petition signatures are valid.
Frankly, I’m really tired of this modern trend to challenge in court the validity of petitions on practically every initiative. It’s as if the “anti” group, of whatever it is, has so much money burning a hole in their pockets that they now feel compelled to waste it on a bunch of lawyers and a court challenge rather than fighting the issue the honest democratic way by mounting a campaign to convince the voters to vote against it. When they challenge the petitions on technicalities and gobbledygook, I can only conclude that they’re afraid they’d lose if the issue was actually put to a vote.
valleyman on August 12 at 12:02 p.m.
There is no right under the Constitution to require Americans to buy anything. Living isn’t a privilege like driving, it is an absolute right, thus the legislature cannot attach a mandate to purchase health insurance to living.
Live free or die - Not buy health insurance or be fined.
gmorton on August 12 at 12:08 p.m.
RedCedar wrote,
“This is an article about a court ruling on some arcane technicalities about the validity of signatures on some petition, based on some extra verbiage about the signature-gatherer’s employment, to put a question about federal health insurance on the ballot.”
Well, the article does mention, buried several paragraphs down, that the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals also struck down the individual mandate today.
Interesting that the editors saw fit to focus the story on the relatively insignificant Ohio ballot issue.
tobiasg on August 12 at 12:25 p.m.
Polistra, I’m just happy we have the numbers in the supreme legislature. Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, they were elected by we the people to correct the normal congress and that socialist Obama.
Squid on August 12 at 12:26 p.m.
Just curious….. Does anyone know the actual cost of the premium for the average person in Obamacare?
Would be nice to know what this will cost every month in addition to our other rising costs.
Right now, health care costs for the average person start at $450 per month if it’s not provided by your company. Call around if you don’t believe me.
When we were required to buy insurance to drive, the premiums didn’t go down, even though more business should make the price lower, so why would it be different for health care?
Employees will be begging for huge raises, economy will spiral into the ground, cost of living will skyrocket, minimum wage will double, big business will adjust prices accordingly, small business will become extinct, American dream will be just a dream. No big deal.
I hope Walmart has an opening for all of us who have small businesses.
Depression will look pretty darn good.
johnclarke on August 12 at 12:38 p.m.
Yeah, if you collect Medicare benefits by all means deny decent health care to everyone else.
Perhaps some people are satisfied with the nation spending twice as much for inferior health care - but not me.
I am not pleased with the lack of a public option in the current health care reform, but it is certainly a step in the right direction. Call me all the names you like; Marxist, Lefty, Socialist are some of the normal ones we hear on this blog. I do not believe health care is some sort of prize for just those that can afford it, not do I believe people’s health should be a for-profit industry left to the obvious scam of “free market” because it is proven not to work; and the planet is full of examples that do work.
I will pay higher taxes to ensure every man, woman and child has access to decent health care.
johnclarke on August 12 at 12:41 p.m.
“Employees will be begging for huge raises, economy will spiral into the ground, cost of living will skyrocket, minimum wage will double, big business will adjust prices accordingly, small business will become extinct, American dream will be just a dream”
Yeah, sounds just like Social Security warnings. Oh wait, Social Security is a huge success and fully funded (with a huge surplus) in spite of all the right wing propaganda that it’s failing. Now that you mention it, it sounds like all the warnings about all social programs. The really odd thing is the number of countries that have a form of social health care, and still exist.
Squid on August 12 at 12:56 p.m.
I hear the birth control program in China works pretty good.
Can you name some of these health care programs that work, or is it a secret? Canada? Wait 6 months for the initial visit and poor care at best, die while you wait, or go to the U.S.A. ? That kind of success?
I’m all for everyone getting health care, as long as it doesn’t cause widespread deaths and economic disaster for all.
johnclarke on August 12 at 1:14 p.m.
Yeah, funny that Canadians don’t complain about thier healh care as much as we do. No system is perfect anyway, many social health care programs experiment with different ways to serve the public. What, you expect 100% satisfaction when humans are involved ?
No secret, you can check the WHO although they are not doing ratings any more. Or, I can offer a story - which I guess is evidence around here.
My 60ish year old friend just had a heart attack an hour before landing in Germany. The airport had a fully equipped trauma center and staff who had an EKG read in minutes after landing and sent her to the hospital. She ultimately had a stint (sp?) placed, spent 4 days in the hospital. Cost for this procedure and stay for a non resident? $11k Euros. She stated that her experience was vastly superior to her lifetime of care in the US. The roles in the US that might go to a technical person here is generally a real doctor there. Also she said the facilities were just fabulous, clean modern etc, and also the attitude of the health care providers and doctors was incredible esp. considering she did not speak German.
RedCedar on August 12 at 1:31 p.m.
funny that Canadians don’t complain about thier healh care as much as we do.
Canadians don’t complain about their expensive gasoline, high income taxes, or bland sausage either.
liberal_in_right_wing_land on August 12 at 1:33 p.m.
Squid, I dare you to go find one Canadian that would give up their free health care to go to a system like the United States that gives health care to only those that can afford it, and then when you do get sick or have a major injury you got into debt and bankruptcy because you cannot afford the medical care?
Please, give me an example of a Canadian that would give up their free health care, which despite what you hear on Faux News is just as good, if not better, than what you get here in America, to go to a health care system that is the greatest cause of bankruptcies for individuals in this country?
How can you honestly defend our health care system which is ranked somewhere around 37th best in the world?
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
http://healthpolicyandreform.nejm.org/?p=2610
johnclarke on August 12 at 1:39 p.m.
Red Cedar, thank you for your off topic and pointless contribution.
I will pay more for gas too if we can give everyone access to health care. I will not however eat bland sausage.
misjustice on August 12 at 1:47 p.m.
I draw the line at bland sausage, too! Dammit!
That makes me mad to even think of it; I’ll pay over $4.00/gallon for petrol, I’ll pay too much for health insurance, hell, I’ll even agree to pay more in federal and state taxes but I’ll be damned if I will tolerate bland sausage.
Afterall, there’s only so much that one woman can tolerate…
liberal_in_right_wing_land on August 12 at 1:57 p.m.
Why are so many people greedy about not willing to pay a little extra for universal health care that helps out your fellow man? I have NO problem paying a little extra to make sure that every man, woman and child can walk into any hospital or doctors office in this country and get the health care they need and walk out without ever stoping at the cashiers desk for a bill. Really disgusting the greed you see in this country today that is all from the tea bagging righties.
Also, these countries that offer free health care for all, also have private health care insurance companies that offer health insurance plans to anyone who wants it. What system do you think people overwhelming choose, the free market system or the socialist system?
Even most American favor universal health care, its just the politicians who are being paid off by the insurance companies cannot provide it.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/US/healthcare031020_poll.html
Dazzeetrader11 on August 12 at 2:59 p.m.
Your brain Liberal..your brain….watch and learn. Nobody likes Obamacare in the current polls. You know it too. It has NEVER been popular with America. NEVER! Like most liberals these days…you try to fool us. Try some truth sometime Liberal. Just once.
1.http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law
ALL the following polls are current.
RCP Average 5/8 - 8/6 — 38.8 50.6 Against/Oppose +11.8
2. Rasmussen Reports* 8/5 - 8/6 1000 LV 40 54 Against/Oppose
+14
3. Associated Press/GfK 6/16 - 6/20 1001 A 36 46 Against/Oppose +10
4. CNN/Opinion Research 6/3 - 6/7 1015 A 39 56 Against/Oppose +17
5. CBS News 6/3 - 6/7 1024 A 37 48 Against/Oppose +11
6. Politico/GWU/Battleground* 5/8 - 5/12 1000 LV 42 49 Against/Oppose +7
THIS Obamacare has been a loser from the beginning. Period.
Like it’s namesake, Obamacare will never work. Unfunded…and no money to pay for it. It is a social experiment doomed from the beginning. I don’t pay for anyone but me…unless the poor and disabled need a hand. But it will be my hand and my choice…not some liberal Democrat trying to buy votes with my money. Nice try though.
liberal_in_right_wing_land on August 12 at 3:15 p.m.
Dazzee, I suggest you re-read my comments, I was making an argument for universal health care. I never once mentioned anything about Obama’s health care plan. In fact, I HATE Obama’s health care plan since all it does is give giant corporate insurance companies 30+ million new costumers. Yes, there are a few good things in his plan, but overall it was pretty weak and pretty much caters to giant insurance companies and ensures their CEO’s become very rich. So again, Most Americans favor UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.
Sorry, but do you even know what universal health care is? Do think Obama’s health care plan is even close to universal health care? If so, then this debate is over because you need to do some research then come back to the adult table and debate.
johnclarke on August 12 at 3:29 p.m.
Liberal I have a list of people I am trying not to respond to, because it’s obviously pointless. Difficult not to fire back sometimes, really difficult. Daisy is a recent addition to “the list”.
Crusty1 on August 12 at 3:56 p.m.
Do you know how many Canadians cometo Spokane for their major health care or major surgeries? ALOT!! Call the hospitals and ask. Their waiting lists are so long they don’t want to die before they can get operated on because they are a;;oted so much each month for surgeries. When it runs out. NO surgeries take place in Canada. So they come here!
johnclarke on August 12 at 4:21 p.m.
Why no Crusty, I don’t know. Can you provide evidence that supports this, since the odds of me calling a hospital to back up your claim is um about zerooooooo.
Smokie on August 12 at 4:22 p.m.
Squid only says what he has been programmed to say. It’s not his fault.
Canada’s health care system costs half of what ours does and is ranked near the top. Yes, Canadians come here to have elective surgeries. And we go other places too.
Find me the most conservative Canadian political candidate. He won’t advocate dumping their system for ours. No one in Canada wants that. No one. We are just sheep that will continue to get fleeced by the insurance companies until the whole system collapses.
liberal_in_right_wing_land on August 12 at 4:24 p.m.
Clarke, I have Hawken on my list, and I usually try and not reply to Dazzee, but sometimes its actually fun…..especially when Hawken isn’t around to give her talking points and she has to think on her own.
Along those lines, I cannot believe I am going to do this, but Crusty1, want to provide some evidence of this? Some links confirming this as truth would be nice, until then, I and probably most everyone else on here, will think you are a typical tea bagger blowing a bunch of hot air because it sounds good, but have nothing to back up the statements with.
MrNatural on August 12 at 4:25 p.m.
Well…it seemed like a noble and compassionate idea but too many people prefer to keep to individual health care over contributing to social medicine…so I guess those people without access to health care for the most part are SOL…
gmorton on August 12 at 4:47 p.m.
Smokie wrote,
“We are just sheep that will continue to get fleeced by the insurance companies until the whole system collapses.”
Er, Smokie, it is not insurance companies doing the fleecing. They are not setting the prices for antibiotics, MRI machines, pacemakers, artificial hip joints, hospital room charges, doctor’s and nurses’ salaries, laboratory tests, or hypodermic syringes. They just have to pay them.
For the reasons costs for all those goods and services have been rising at triple the rate of inflation for the last 40 years or so you need to look to government policies, at both the federal and state levels.
Diana on August 12 at 5:13 p.m.
Er, the poor insurance companies, they just have to pay them. Oh yeah, and make huge profits.
There are an estimated 50 million uninsured Americans. Who do you think pays for them? We all do.
If the naysayers would take time to understand our current health care system, they would understand why so many of us support the public option.
johnclarke on August 12 at 5:26 p.m.
bbbbut Diana, don’t you know the poor “insurance” companies have such low profit margins? I mean they are barely squeaking by.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthCare/health-insurers-post-record-profits/story?id=9818699
gmorton on August 12 at 5:55 p.m.
Diana wrote,
“Er, the poor insurance companies, they just have to pay them. Oh yeah, and make huge profits.”
Well, it depends upon what you consider “huge,” I suppose. Health insurance industry profits have averaged about 5% over the last several years; 4.4% last year.
http://biz.yahoo.com/p/sum_qpmd.html
You’ll have to scroll down quite a ways to find “healthcare plans.” They rank 88th in profitability among all industries.
Or or you can ignore that reality and wail about the *increases* in their profits last year, as johnclarke does above.
And of course I must remind you that health insurance companies, like all other businesses, are in business to make a profit for their investors. They are not charities, not social programs, not branches or extensions of the gummint created to deliver free lunches to whining constituents. If you are unhappy with the products they deliver, or with the prices they charge, you are perfectly free to drop your policy and pay for your health care yourself – something you should have been doing all along anyway.
“There are an estimated 50 million uninsured Americans. Who do you think pays for them? We all do.”
Yes we do. You can thank government, and the demands of free lunchers such as yourself, for that regrettable state of affairs.
misjustice on August 12 at 6:04 p.m.
“Yes we do. You can thank government, and the demands of free lunchers such as yourself, for that regrettable state of affairs.”
Yeah, instead of picking up the tab, we should just demand that they die, and die quickly; like the Tea Baggers and “Libertarians” think they should do.
One way to help decrease the surplus population…and a step closer to returning to the dystopian state of nature.
gmorton on August 12 at 6:30 p.m.
misjustice wrote,
“Yeah, instead of picking up the tab, we should just demand that they die, and die quickly; like the Tea Baggers and ‘Libertarians’ think they should do.”
No, misj. It is not a question of what “we” should do. It is a question of what you, and each other moral agent in the society, will do. Decisions as to whom to help, and to what extent, are yours to make, to whatever extent your values dictate and your resources allow. But you may not make such decisions for other moral agents.
Nor do Tea Partiers or libertarians wish anyone to die. They simply reject the precept that it is their responsibility to provide anyone else with the things they may need to live, absent a contract, voluntarily entered into with particular persons, to do so.
detroitdude on August 12 at 6:48 p.m.
Well, once again, the magic word here is GREED and as usual, the cons never fail to stand up for those already well off and not worried about health care expenses, how humanitarian of you :)
jddavis on August 12 at 7:06 p.m.
Resisting someone else’s notion of how you should spend your money doesn’t make you greedy…I see it the other way, where some get mad that they can’t spend your money as they see fit as greedy.
I believe if you want to help someone out, be it family or stranger, you should make the decision of who, how, and how much. It’s not my place to tell you which charity to support, if at all.
gmorton on August 12 at 7:15 p.m.
detroitdude wrote,
“Well, once again, the magic word here is GREED and as usual, the cons never fail to stand up for those already well off . . .”
Well, libertarians, at least, stand up for the right of each person, well-off or not, to decide for himself how to live his life, which charitable causes to support, who deserves help and who doesn’t, and how to spend his own money. That include your right to “stand up” for anyone you please. It does not include the right to make such decisions for others, however.
A desire to keep one’s own money and spend it as one desires is not greed. The person determined to spend *other* people’s money is the one you need to worry about.
detroitdude on August 12 at 7:18 p.m.
At both above, I’d gladly pay a little more of MY money if it meant everyone could go to the hospital or have a physical and not get buried in debt after they have been there.
liberal_in_right_wing_land on August 12 at 7:27 p.m.
You tea baggers can spin it all you want, but it still greed. Deny the facts all you want, but most people in this country are OVERWHELMINGLY in favor of universal health care and are willing to spend a few more dollars in taxes to help everyone.
However, greed is holding this up. Try and spin your misguided views all you want, we all know its greed and most of America knows its greed, except you stupid tea baggers who somehow think you are trying to preserve some American institution of screwing people into bankruptcy.
Dazzeetrader11 on August 12 at 9:22 p.m.
It’s only 30 million…most of them refuse to spend on insurance.
As I’ve said before…..roughly 8% were used by Obama to make his case…he inflated the problem to make it big and nasty. It isn’t.
Canadians die and they never are heard from. If someone, gets sick…I mean REALLY sick…they come to Spokane. Canadians have an option to buy out of Canda insurance.
So when they get into trouble. they come to Spokane.
Otherwise the usual shots, baby checks,… the not so serious maintenence stuff stays up there. Usually that is enough.
It’s a very very imbalanced situation. Remember, there is no data to show that insurance or being insured saves one life. A few years back, I reviewed a Harvard Public health article that purported to make the case…..we published it but only for balance. It was in the NEJM. Of course Obamaphils jumped on it but it was devoid of conclusions.
gmorton on August 12 at 9:52 p.m.
liberal_in_right_wing_land wrote,
” … but most people in this country are OVERWHELMINGLY in favor of universal health care and are willing to spend a few more dollars in taxes to help everyone.”
Then those people ought to do exactly that. They may spend as much as they please, for that or any other cause that tickles their sensibilities. They need to finance their charitable impulses from their own wallets, however, and keep their paws out of other people’s pockets.
Dazzeetrader11 on August 12 at 10:03 p.m.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/12/how-important-is-the-obamacare-litigation/
Something’s gone very wrong. Founding Fathers must be turning over in their graves. Limited government is now big goveernment…….nothing what they dreampt of. Lots of people died to support the concept of limited government. I suppose more will.
You spoiled children. Obamacare was and is a fantasy you bit on. Nothing, nowhere to support the notion this would work. I hope it’s voted against again and again….like it’s champion.
Just an hallucination……nothing more, nothing less.
drywitt99 on August 12 at 10:09 p.m.
Judging from her post this morning it looks like Dazed was channeling hawken.
liberal_in_right_wing_land on August 12 at 10:14 p.m.
Dazzee, instead of keep repeating yourself, please cite references and provide us with some links that says Canadians are dying and never heard from due to waiting to long for health care. Thats a pretty big claim your making.
Also, what about the Americans who go to other countries for their health care or they die because they cannot afford the American for-profit system. Shouldn’t you be worried about those people more than the Canadians since they are your fellow Americans?
Dazzeetrader11 on August 12 at 10:47 p.m.
They don’t go anywhere Dry…they have the best right in the USA. Most of those foreign kids come here for education..including medical school, residency and fellowship.
Sorry Dry…it’s best here in the US in all things medical. If an odd technology opens up elsewhere, we buy it. See how it works?? We buy it and those who work for a living and buy insurance and employ the best.
SImple concept…very American. I do hope you get the best of Free Clinic Medicine…..I also hope your liberal friends do as well. As for most of us people who aren’t in the “gimme” crowd,
we go where we please and to whom we please for the best care. See how it works for those who invest in themselves?
I honestly think the liberalteachers and the media have inbued you with this crazy sense that you should fall on your swords for Obama and his goofy,. wifty ideas. You bit….and you shouldn’t have looked at your tired parents who broke their a88es for you and asked yourself if you want the best for them or do you want them with the “gimme” crew lined up at the Free Clinic. You’ll be in their shoes someday…….think of it that way. Choice……..choice…Obama would take mine. I won’t let him.
And this is why the Courts found against Obamacare today. Think about it. You can the libs can do what you want. I can too.
Squid on August 12 at 11:08 p.m.
Generally, when I buy just about anything, I want to know what it’s going to cost. Does anyone know what the monthly premium will be?
Anyone? Anyone?
johnclarke on August 13 at 8:37 a.m.
I always have to smile when someone actually defends health insurance companies, what with the tiny profit margins and all. How can anyone stand in judgement of such a noble organization? I mean, it’s almost like they are a charity right?
This is yet another example of someone that does not understand the first thing about how a business really runs, and all a person has to do is check out the 10-K for a clue. These “meager” profits are clearly manipulated via a process known as “earnings smoothing” which is a nice way of saying “hiding profit”. This accepted scam involves reinsurance and other methods to move huge amounts of cash around before year end fiscal reporting. Also, let’s not forget the massive salaries for executive leadership at all these companies, sanctioned by the board of directors. The board is charged with watching out for the interest of the shareholders, but really what they are doing is distributing the spoils of your insurance premiums. The entire process is legalized stealing, and only the uneducated or truly ignorant would defend for profit health “insurance”.
johnclarke on August 13 at 8:41 a.m.
Squid, what is your premium going to be next year? Did you know what it was going to be this year?
Besides, insurance is supposed to get cheaper when you have more people “sharing the risk” or so we are always told by our good friends at the insurance companies.
Squid on August 13 at 10:17 a.m.
That makes me feel a whole lot better knowing that it’s just a simple matter of trusting insurance companies and Government.
Like I said before…… When we were required to buy automotive insurance, the rates never went down.
Employers will have to pay for all of the workers’ increased cost of living. The profits aren’t that high these days, and they won’t be able to afford it.
For junk insurance that covers a percentage, is limited, and will leave you with a huge bill after any procedure, it costs the average guy $450 per month right now, if it’s not provided by your employer. You, as a tax payer, will also have to share the burden for people who are indigent, so how much will your premium rise? How much will the cost of doing business rise?
Sounds a lot more appealing to be indigent. Someone else will take care of me, and I can go to the beach.
Could be an unimaginable percentage of unemployment, foreclosures, inflation, etc.
Housing project construction jobs should be something to look forward to though.
gmorton on August 13 at 11:33 a.m.
johnclarke wrote,
“I always have to smile when someone actually defends health insurance companies . . .”
Health insurance companies need no defense, as long as they are delivering the service for which you paid.
If you are unhappy with that service, drop your policy and pay for your own health care.
Oh – I forgot. You think you are “entitled” that someone else pay for it. Because you exist, or because you are human, or some such nonsense.
jddavis on August 13 at 12:57 p.m.
Detroit—Send your money to Sacred Heart Medical Center, they are non-profit.
Liberal—been teabagged one too many times?
gmorton on August 13 at 5:11 p.m.
johnclarke wrote,
“The entire process is legalized stealing, and only the uneducated or truly ignorant would defend for profit health ‘insurance’.”
Uh, no, John. “Stealing” is taking the property of another without his consent, by force or stealth. I’m quite sure no one is forcing you to write a check to your insurance company every month.
Of course, that may change if the Supreme Court upholds Obamacare. Then you *will* have some stealing to complain about.
RedCedar on August 15 at 6:46 p.m.
Red Cedar, thank you for your off topic and pointless contribution.
You’re welcome. This topic has already died of old age, but I trust your more thoughtful contributions did more to change your interlocutors’ minds than did my snide remark about our friends to the north.