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August 23, 2011 in City
Council debates oversight rules
Ombudsman changes may need voter initiative
Spokane City Council members suggested they may need voters to save the stronger police oversight rules they approved last year, by working to place the concept on the ballot.
Passions were high during the council’s Monday meeting as they discussed overturning police oversight rules. The debate included a few shouting matches between attendees and Council President Joe Shogan.
The Spokane City Council approved police ombudsman oversight rules in 2008 following a high-profile fatal encounter between Spokane Police Department officers and Otto Zehm in 2006. Last year, the ombudsman’s powers were strengthened by the council. The earlier rules were negotiated with the Spokane Police Guild, but the tougher ones were not.
The police union filed a complaint with the state Public Employment Relations Commission, which deferred a decision to an arbitrator. That arbitrator ruled against the city this summer and said that under state law, the rules must be repealed because they weren’t negotiated with the union.
Many of the council members suggested it may take an initiative brought by voters to allow the city to keep the broadened oversight rules.
“I want an ombudsman program, and I do not know if we’re going to get one,” said Councilman Bob Apple. “An initiative would solve the problem, but that’s the only way that I can tell you that I think it will be solved.”
On Monday, the council voted unanimously to decide on Sept. 26 if they’ll overturn the law, and to formally ask the commission if the arbitrator had the legal authority to decide the case.
Overturning the 2010 police oversight law would leave 2008 rules in place. The ombudsman would still be able to sit in on police investigations into police misconduct and rule whether those investigations were thorough and fair, but he would no longer be able to conduct independent investigations.
Council members outlined their strategy Monday night. It could include appealing the arbitrator’s decision to Spokane County Superior Court. Many council members suggested that they lobby the Legislature to allow ombudsman rules like Spokane’s to be enacted even if not approved by police unions.
Councilwoman Nancy McLaughlin, who is the president of the Association of Washington Cities, said the city will need residents’ help in lobbying the Legislature.
“Are you willing to fight with us?” McLaughlin asked.
Councilman Richard Rush said that after years of debate about police oversight, the council should not be afraid to stand up for the new ombudsman law.
“It’s time some council saw it through and brought it to a logical conclusion,” he said.
Shogan ordered one attendee, conservative radio talk show host George McGrath, to leave when he used the word “murder” when referencing Zehm. Another man, David Brookbank, later shouted from the back of the chambers for Shogan “to stop his abuse” of those who testify. Brookbank, who agreed to leave after his outburst, appeared to be frustrated that Shogan repeatedly mispronounced his name.
The council president said he objected to using the term “murder” without anyone convicted or even charged with the crime.
“I draw the line when you make personal attacks against other people,” he said.
Closing Geiger: Wise or worrisome? 
steveeugster on August 23 at 3:38 a.m.
Last night the City Council and President Shogan showed us somethng — that the City is downright thuggish these days. If the City Council is thuggish, what is the city Police Department like? Is it hard on the citizenry just as President Shogan and the rest of the City Council members, by their assent, are hard on the citizenry?
http://spokaneregister.wordpress.com/2011/08/23/spokane-as-viewed-through-its-city-council/
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 4:12 a.m.
If there are any new people reading here you should read the discussion thread of Brunt’s previous article and the excellent time line companion piece by Clouse that is quite damning:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/aug/21/council-late-to-get-zehm-news/
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 4:30 a.m.
I too attended the Council meeting and gave them two recommendations.
The Mayor and the City Attorney have kept the Council in the dark for over a year. The Council in their own naivete are still stumbling in the dark and can’t find their way out. This current debate is really a much ado about nothing. Whether they appear the decision of the arbitrator will do very little to resolve this very serious problem with SPD.
I gave the Council a way forward and in their discussion never mentioned my suggestion. So much for Council’s concern about really addressing this problem - they have no cojones. They just kicked the can down the road. The Council could act on my recommendations quickly. Taking this action would bring the change that many Spokane citizens are now demanding but don’t know how to do it.
If you are concerned as I am then I would encourage you to write the US Attorney’s Office and request what I recommended to Council:
Tim Durkin, Assistant United States Attorney
U.S. Attorney’s Office, Eastern District of Washington
920 West Riverside Avenue, Suite #300
Spokane, WA 99201
Former Sheriff Tony Bamonte has also written a similar letter:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/aug/17/mayor-pushes-to-resolve-zehm-suit/?comments#c332998
I will post the full text of my presentation to Council in a separate post.
D Statler on August 23 at 7:09 a.m.
Remember these people when casting your ballots friends. Representation is what we elect these leaders to do.I suggest a thorough house cleaning. Whoever hired this city attourney and left him there needs to take a long look in the mirror. Is this the legacy you want to be remembered by? Thanks for your help Ron.Have you ever considered running for office? Common sense seems to be scarce in our current leadership.
norpass on August 23 at 7:43 a.m.
Ewww, the ‘natives’ get restless. Golly, police state tyranny seems to bring that out in hard working decent folk. Some serious hot-button issues at stake here. “Police union” and “arbitration” and Council Shogun Shogan can’t be allowing the term “murder” to be uttered in the High Holy Council Chambers. “Clear the Chambers” bellows the Council Shogun thereby reverence and a proper obeisance returns to the proceedings of the High Council.
During the interim, the good Mayor Mary sits there quite pleased with herself AS, she gonna be Mayor again.
Jeez my fellow denizens of the Spokano realm, you have lost any semblance of control you might have naively thought you had over government. You went all complacent and that proved to be fait accompli.
When does the High Council Shogun stand for re-election?
mikeln on August 23 at 8:14 a.m.
The police union should not be fighting oversight unless they have something to hide, now and in the future. If you do the job right, you have nothing to hide, if you screw up you should not be allowed to hide. In the couple of times I have had encounters with the SPD I have found the officers helpfull and able to do thier jobs. I’m sure there are some bad apples, you should not cover these peoples butts at the good officers expense
brianrbreen on August 23 at 8:49 a.m.
@Steve,
All of these complaints regarding the council could easily be handled if there were a City Council Ombudsman. The City Council Ombudsman could be totally independent except he/she would have to use city attorneys to answer legal questions. The office of the CCO should be housed somewhere outside of city hall so people are comfortable making a complaint without fear their individual water rates would be raised. The powers would include the power to sit in on public sessions of the Council, sit in during council members one on one sessions with citizens, free and total access to the tape of the council sessions( The CCO should have enough budget to afford a forensic exam to make sure the tape hasn’t been tampered with.) Then once the CCO completed review of the complaint they would submit a written conclusion and recommendation to the council president who would have the power to make all decisions regarding any type of discipline, if any, that would be meted out to council members or the council president. The CCO would make public on a monthly basis the number of sustained complaints received so that the public would understand how important the Office of CCO is.
I was at the council meeting and the only possible complaints I saw which could be submitted to a CCO were demeanor complaints and those were kinda iffy
As far as the Police Ombudsman is concerned I took careful note that Officer Kim Thomas did not touch anyone or raise his voice as he was escorting folks out and I thought he handled himself very professionally for an old cop.
I think Thumper would agree don’t you.
@Wiz
Delaney’s position is that the city is required to indemnity Nicks under RCW Title 42 because of the conflict. I disagree for a number of reasons including the fact that the conflict developed well after Nicks was acting Chief of Police. I would be interested to know if Nicks signed a conflict waiver with the city attorneys office like all the other cops were dumb enough to do. One could look at the bright side though, the civil litigation is soon to settle, so it won’t be that much even though the hourly rate for K&L will likely far exceed anything around here, and the flight expense from Seattle to Spokane isn’t that much.
Any of the cops reading this involved in the Zehm case or any other civil litigation should know that it was pretty clear there isn’t going to be any conflict contracts for you guys. Back in the day some of us refused to sign waivers knowing full well the city could bale on us at any time, and try and blame us for acting outside the scope of our authority, you should have seen the scurrying around and the games that were played when we refused to sign.
spokanedan on August 23 at 9:10 a.m.
If everyone is so concerned about who is Mayor of Spokane and who is President of the City Council, why when there are 201,912 registered voters in the city did only 43,316 people actually vote in the Primary. The primary determines who goes on the ballot in November, that;s is why we have Has-been Hession leading the pack, and Miss Mary unopposed for Mayor. If you did not vote do not complain, you got what you deserve.
brianrbreen on August 23 at 9:37 a.m.
@mikeln
Try for one minute to put yourself in the shoes of an honest cop. The honest cop, unlike some council folks, reads the governments proffer and notes that then Detective Ferguson will testify that at the direction of then Chief Odenthal she had the Zehm video edited to take out all the bad stuff prior to a meeting with the brass and other investigators. Aside from the fact that any investigator with any integrity would have said FU Chief, the honest cop is thinking holy crap they’re trying to cover up for a “Golden Boy”, and a MCU investigator is doing exactly what the Chief told her to do, my gosh she is one of the ones that might investigate me. The honest cop is thinking, what if I ain’t so “Golden”, are they going to tamper with evidence to try and get me out of here.
Then the honest cop reads that according to Chief Nick’s notes, Rocky Treppiedi viewed the whole tape and told him there is nothing bad there. What do you think that honest cop is thinking about that.
Just two examples among many. How can anyone expect the Guild made up of some great cops and a few bad ones to roll over and not try to protect themselves. I know for a fact that the vast majority of those Guild members have no problem with honest, fair oversight. The question is how to get there especially when, as Mr. Apple so adeptly put it during the council meeting, “The city is never willing to admit it when they make mistakes”.
DickAdams on August 23 at 9:50 a.m.
spokanedan, I did vote. I even voted for Verner. I was naive enough to believe her pledge for a transparency. WOW, did I make a big mistake. I can`t understand your opine saying “unopposed for Mayor”. Since the primary ballot, IMO, Verner has been thrown under the bus by the SR. At least that`s my interpretation of the SR published stories of late, re her covering up the Otto Zehm stuff.
The_Seer on August 23 at 10:03 a.m.
Vote Ben Stuckart for Council President.
It would be a great place to start. Handing Cowles Clone Hession the reins of the city council (which will mean biz as usual) is A HORRIBLE IDEA FELLOW VOTERS!
Wizard_Of_Oz on August 23 at 10:08 a.m.
I want to change my legal name to “None of the above” and then run for public office.
I am sure that no matter which office I run for, I would get elected with that name on a ballot.
Remember, next time Vote For “None of the above”
Ed Byrnes on August 23 at 10:16 a.m.
Brian,
I concur with your assessment of how honest LEOs are probably feeling. I am asking you to trust that my position advocating a CRB is intended to protect the honest LEOs, who are in the majority. My conclusion about a CRB is based on the ongoing capricious and inept actions at the LLE and municipal leadership levels.
Ed
Ed Byrnes on August 23 at 10:19 a.m.
Wiz,
I agree with Seer that our best shot at accountability and transparency is Ben Stuckart, who deserves our support.
Ed
liberal_in_right_wing_land on August 23 at 10:21 a.m.
So tired of hearing about this stupid case now. Its been 5 years, GET IT EFFING DONE ALREADY!. There is always something it seems this city wants to focus on instead of the read issues going on in this city. This STUPID case is taking up way to much of the cities time, money and resources that could be going to other much more important things, like trying to bring jobs to Spokane.
Also, i am a big supporter of unions, but the police union here needs to stop being RETARDED and stop fighting the rules giving the ombudsman power to investigate them. They are not helping their case as nobody in Spokane trusts our corrupt police department and nobody, even diehard liberals and union supporters like me, are not supporting their stupid union right now.
Wizard_Of_Oz on August 23 at 10:32 a.m.
If one reads the original white paper regarding the Ombudsman and does a word count. The term “OVERSITE” appears about 90 times.. and ombudsman about 19.
So why is it called an ombudsman when what we really want is oversite? answer: Political correctness and the failure to call a spade a spade.
DickAdams on August 23 at 10:51 a.m.
Anybody rather than HESSION!! I`ll wager the Cowles Dynasty shall back Polly want a cracker.
Dazzeetrader11 on August 23 at 11:43 a.m.
When a mayor is pushing bikes, trees and covering up her misdeeds, you should send her packing. Condon is about the only way the city wiil get better.
Maybe the SR is finally taking a look at Verner..thus the new facts. Remeber she’s the “invisable” Mayor? Well she is htat for a reason.
Spokane needs this program. Verner’s done nothing about it because she doesn’t want enemies. If she doesn’t, the public is angry. If she does, the Police Guild blows up.
It should be what the people want without the games. 5 years to figure out this Zehm case was a simple murder.a beating to death….is just too long. Never would this happen with oversight ( not the police either) in place. This type of thing will happen again….untill the police know they have to answer to somebody NOT part of the police force.
EVen if the murders are just maimings, somebody has to have some investigative powers with clout enough to be independent. Time was when you could trust the police force.prior to unions to hold off the truth about the blue line.
They protected, served, and went home. Not any more.
Change the leadership and change the mayor.
Squid on August 23 at 11:47 a.m.
From the limited information I have seen, the ONLY reason we have Tim Burns is because Mrs. Zehm included the Ombudsman position in her list of demands in the civil suit, and the City was trying to appease her to settle early by creating that position. I may be wrong.
Oddly, when the City knew that Mrs. Zehm wouldn’t settle out of court early, the arbitrator ruled against the power of the ombudsman, which was most likely part of the plan all along, even if she did settle.
Am I misunderstanding this?
brianrbreen on August 23 at 12:22 p.m.
Ed,
I don’t for a second doubt your intentions, and I think most citizens are on the same page and believe it or not so are most cops. As I’ve expressed before the Ombudsman even with expanded powers is “farcical”, and the money spent for that position is a waste, let alone appealing the arbitrators decision.. If the folks at VOICES or CFJ want to hang their hats on a farce that’s up to them. I hope this doesn’t sound political because I’m not and could care less about party affiliation, but in reality unless people are willing to put that aside and address the real issues, we are in trouble. Despite what my friend Tom might tell you I’m not at all apposed to a Civilian Oversight, but I want it credible to protect everyone including the cops. I think you would find that the Police Guild would not be apposed to Civilian Oversight if that oversight included oversight of those making disciplinary decisions.
Now take your situation for example. Yes, as Spokane_Citizen pointed out you are a tenured public employee. By the same token regardless of your tenure you are in the same position as the good cops, you have to rely on the administration being fair and just. Perhaps you are comfortable with that, which is fine, but my experience is that is not necessarily the case. Without breaching any confidences you might want to talk to some of the people you work with and get their perspective.
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 12:23 p.m.
Dazzetrader,
Be careful the loose use of the word murder and or murderer will get you thrown out when addressing the City Council by Council President (AKA King) Shogun. George McGrath was led out by the officer on station in the Chamber’s last night at Shogun’s direction for using this term lightly. So much for free speech and addressing your elected leaders for public redress:-)
Squid,
Actually I don’t really know on the arbitrator. Sounds possible on the first part of your post but I think unlikely on the second regarding the meet and confer issue that currently is the subject of this debate.
I will post my follow-up with an action plan for all Spokane Citizens who want action regarding SPD et al, the Mayor and the City Attorney. The City Council seems to have no cojones to act and continues to wring its hands on this problem. Sorry I do like the Palin invective but don’t assume I’m in her camp either:-)
There is something that WE THE CITIZENS can do united in common cause that actually may bring about the change that we all want including the rank and file at SPD.
STAY TUNED!
Ed Byrnes on August 23 at 1:03 p.m.
Brian,
By all means civilian oversight of police includes everyone from the chief to the dispatcher. Excluding anyone in the SPD from oversight is indeed farcical. I also believe that officers should have the right to file a complaint to a CRB when their leaders are engaging in misconduct that is not covered within the scope of their CBA.
Although in my opinion I have been treated fairly by my administration I assert that it doesn’t matter. What matters is a credible oversight system that protects all parties in interest, whether bad things have happened or not, it is having the procedural protections in place that matters, and often prevents problems. We have a union and procedural protections in place, which I have seen succeed in protecting faculty and guiding administration when problems arise. I will not assert that it is a perfect system and know that some of my colleagues have had less than ideal experiences within it, though as a steward I am keeping these confidential, which is appropriate. The good thing is having an open process that can evolve, which it recently did regarding internal investigation policy and procedure.
I have some ideas about what could make a CRB that is credible to both civilians and LEOs, and you also have such ideas. My beginning place is the CRB membership, exclusion criteria and membership selection process. These are things I prefer to discuss with you in person or have email exchanges about in private at this point…a too many cooks kind of thing at this early stage ;)
Ed
D Statler on August 23 at 1:28 p.m.
I appreciate reading all your intelligent thoughts on a CRB. Let us all know when it is time to gather signatures. I will be happy to help. Thanks Ed,Ron & Brian
greenlibertarian on August 23 at 1:45 p.m.
I don’t see the passage of a Citizens’ Initiative as the be-all, end-all solution. Not all issues can be decided by the electorate. Things involving civil rights including such of the Police Guild which has struck a bonafide contract with the designated, elected leaders of Spokane.
I don’t see how a citizen initiative could force its way into the existing contract the Guild has.
It could provide some great moral and political support to empower the city leaders to INSIST that in the next contract to be negotiated with the Guild, these Ombudsman or other entity oversight powers will be non-negotiable as far as the City is concerned.
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 1:51 p.m.
Brian and Ed,
As you know I have mixed feelings about having a CRB having lived through being saddled with one. I agree under the right structure it may be workable. I would also suggest a Coroner’s/ME Inquest for all OIS/OID incidents too.
Before these I’m recommending more immediate action of which the CRB could be an outcome without having to go through a long and involved initiative process - a consent decree out of a pattern and practice investigation by the US DOJ.
I will unveil my suggestion shortly on how all citizens that concerns about the state of affairs within SPD including the Guild can unite together for positive change that so far our elected leaders are ducking responsibility. Still working on last minute tweaks and developing key consensus among potential supporters.
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 2:03 p.m.
Agreed Green we can wait on our elected leaders to act til the cows come home. It ain’t going to happen.
WE THE PEOPLE are going to have to push this issue.
brianrbreen on August 23 at 2:06 p.m.
Ron,
You are wrong, back in the day there were several cops willing to call BS without regard to what might happened including Tony, who by the way I like very much, just disagree on a lot of things. I know there still are many there.
Because I have nothing else to do at this point, let me point this out because it’s public record and represents my opinion, as well as the fact I’m still waiting for the preverbal hammer to fall. At a time prior to the Zehm case when then Chief Bragdon realized there was a big problem and was trying to “micro manage” the investigative division. Then Mayor Hession realized Bragdon wasn’t pliable . The public issue back then Hession relied on was because Bragdon didn’t get his degree he shouldn’t be Chief., that wasn’t the issue, it went far beyond that. Bragdon made some mistakes, which I’m sure he would own up to. One of the big ones was not having Sgt Joe Peterson pursue criminal charges against Sgt. Jerry Hensley who kicked a handcuffed arrestee in the chest. Bragdon fired him, but Rocky Treppiedi and the city attorneys office agreed to a settlement with Hensley which included reinstating him at the rank of Detective. In order for the settlement to work out Bragdon had to cave and sign it, I bet he regrets that. In my opinion the settlement was to provide cover for a number of mistakes made. You might take note of the fact that this is one of the cases the justice department looked at in a grand jury and if I recall correctly said there was more then enough probable cause that a crime was committed. Knowing the DOJ as I do, that means , we are not wasting our time and resources, fix your own damn problems.
As Mayor Verner, and Ex-Mayor Hession, and the city attorney’s office know full well the Hensley case is complicated by another significant factor well known to Guild members and others that I won’t address here.
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 2:15 p.m.
Very interesting Brian please tell us more! Please explain ? -
I hope you have the boot of doom elevated. This crap would be enough to make it throb:-)
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 2:17 p.m.
Brian,
I should add do you see a common element here that would go to establishing a pattern and practice over many years by SPD?
brianrbreen on August 23 at 2:50 p.m.
Ron,
I’ll try and explain this again, and as you know I’ve investigated “Corruption” all the way from Supreme Court Justices to petty thieves, all well documented. If I were the US Attorney I wouldn’t spend my time and resources trying to fix a situation until it got to the point that the local government itself wasn’t able to step up and handle it. Spokane is far too small of a jurisdiction to worry about. Everyone should be thankful they stepped up when they did regarding Zehm.
The citizens of Spokane seeking legitimate oversight are in a very small minority for a number of reasons. As for me, I’d just like to be in a position to say I’m proud to have been a member of the SPD, I’m not now.
Squid on August 23 at 3:07 p.m.
Brian, that’s a mighty strong statement. “I’d just like to be in a position to say I’m proud to have been a member of the SPD, I’m not now.”
I’d have to say that I’m glad you were a member of the SPD, and I really hope you can help to reform it.
I have to believe things were different in the years past. You would know better than I would. I’m sure there has always been corruption, but currently, it’s at ridiculous proportions and frequency, and needs to be fixed at all levels.
I think the small minority is completely due to ignorance and resistance to change.
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 4:29 p.m.
Brian,
Fair point. With my understanding of the status quo I believe Spokane government is incapable of fixing this problem. Our local government is so corrupt it is dysfunctional. Last night’s Council meeting was a classical example of the ineptitude of our leaders.
WE THE CITIZENS must step in to fix it.
I’ll lay out my scenario for positive action in a later post. I know you know where I’m going. I believe the prevailing winds are blowing in the right direction and the stars are in alignment now to pull this off.
Do you suppose you could check with your inside sources if the Guild would be willing to play ball too? They’ve been screwed many times over by the police command staff and other complicit City officials. There really is no downside to backing this play as it may accomplish what they been trying to achieve all along. The Guilds voices have been drowned out by the political spin of the officials trying to save their own butts. This would be a positive move in the direction of regaining the trust of the community.
Besides if the Guild hasn’t realize this already circling the wagons is counter productive. In order to achieve the political solution this problem requires they need the support of the community to do it.
Spokane_Citizen on August 23 at 4:46 p.m.
No citizens’ (or council) initiative is going to overrule an existing contract with a PERC recognized bargaining unit (Mayor Talbot unsuccessfully attempted to do so way back when). And no bargaining unit is going to give up a right (especially one supported by binding arbitration) no matter how much you yahoos continue to babble about doing the ‘right thing’.
Finally, the council and the administration aren’t going to start initiating precipitous and ill-considered action (or even make significant comments) while two cases, one criminal and the other civil, are in active litigation. If there’s a widespread pattern and practice of corruption, it will come to light during the federal criminal trial. You’re just getting your knickers in a wad.
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 5:06 p.m.
Spokane_Citizen,
Why are you on such a downer? Did you read any of my recommendations yesterday?
Such an action by the US DOJ in conjunction with the current federal criminal case would go hand in hand. Further a federal consent decree stemming from a federal pattern and practice investigation has a way of causing existing labor MOUs to be amended and or renegotiated by both the City and the police labor group.
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 5:11 p.m.
And finally Spokane_Citizen,
A federal grand jury has a way of loosening tongues of uncooperative and complicit City elected and officials that are covering their butts now .
It doesn’t have to be our elected representatives that call for the help of the US Attorney’s Office. Substitute in place of the Mayor, the City Council, and the City Attorney - WE THE FRICKEN PEOPLE!
Spokane_Citizen on August 23 at 5:22 p.m.
Ron, don’t hold yer breath…feds would let the trial take precedence. They’re not gonna screw up their own prosecutors by mudding the waters by starting a silly Salem witch hunt.
brianrbreen on August 23 at 6:10 p.m.
@Spokane_Citizen
Wondered when you were going to show up. You are right of course a citizen’s initiative won’t do anything regarding the working conditions issue and as far as binding arbitration goes the legislator ain’t getting off it.. Despite your well recorded distain for the Police Guild I’m not so sure they might not be willing to do something.
I understand where you are coming from with respect to the two cases; one criminal, which I might add the city now say they have nothing to do with and is solely defended by Thompson’s own attorney, and the civil case which Mayor Verner has expressed a desire to settle as soon as possible. Much of that decision was based on, as you know, what is beginning to come out from the criminal case. Even though you and Mary are good buddies we both know why she wants out and from a fiscal perspective she is right on, the CFJ blew it when they only asked for 2.9 million they should have come closer to the cap(10 Mil.). At least it’s only going to be one million out of my pocket and the insurance company will pick up the rest. Of course that means the premiums will go up, but what the heck.
Almost everything I do in Spokane any more is pro bono, so it’s unlikely you will get a shot at me in a venue other then this, take your best shot at this yahoo, just give me a chance to hit the head and undo these damn knickers.
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 6:14 p.m.
Spokane Citizen
Agreed. This can be a well coordinated full court press. The feds must be encouraged to not be content with only the low hanging fruit.
Ed Byrnes on August 23 at 7:07 p.m.
Remember that a full court press does mean full and us civilians are not going away.
Most of us civilians want to make oversight work in a mutually credible and inclusive way with LLE.
Even more deeply eroded public support for LLE would be tragic, and unfortunately this appears to be the direction that the guild and municipal leadership are taking us toward.
The current status quo is replete with tragedy as well, so when some of my fellow civilians act like there is little to lose I can understand it.
Ed Byrnes
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 7:48 p.m.
Ah so Brian,
I was unaware that Spokane Citizen was carrying Madam Mayor’s water here.
S Citizen based on your post please tell the Mayor she shouldn’t be drinking Treppiedi’s Kool Aide re what the US Atty will or won’t do. I’d be watching for tail cars with MIBs
BTW tell Mary that John Talbott and Dick Adams are still waiting for her to waive the atty client privilege of O Yale Lewis. There’s little to lose at this point._
Spokane_Citizen on August 23 at 8:12 p.m.
Who said I was carrying her Honor’s water here? Do I think she’s a decent person? Absolutely. If there’s actually been some sort of subordinate conspiracy afoot (which I doubt, because the city just ain’t all that coordinated anyway) I sincerely believe she would be furious, but remember….she’s an attorney, extremely intelligent, and undoubtedly knows that strategic action is the best policy.
When the chips are down, and the facts are out, I personally believe she’ll be quite ready to deliver an appropriate and measured response. She’s not the hysterical type, given to poorly considered reactions (which is what you’re trying to evoke).
What you guys are trying to generate is a ‘scorched earth’ policy…and if successful, will do more community damage than good.
As for the Guild….as long as they possess the big trump card; binding arbitration…they’re golden. If I were them, I’d use it too. Only a fool gives away advantage. It’s a beautiful ‘legacy’ bargaining chip…..and I’m sure you know exactly what I mean by that phrase.
And Ron….you’ve been watching way too many movies!
Spokane_Citizen on August 23 at 8:26 p.m.
And Ron, when you roll in the old RPS dinosaur, not one Spokane citizen in 1000 is even marginally aware of that era’s controversy. It just makes you, Talbott (he’s wandered off to some other community anyway), and Dick look like nuts (and no, you’re not totally nuts, but there’s really a time to move on)….was it a bad deal, or a ‘conspiracy’? …. I don’t know…and you’ll have a hard time finding citizens who really care enough to even know what you’re talking about. Start talking about it, and watch their eyes glaze over.
Apparently you haven’t yet learned that most people have enough ‘outrages’ and aggravations that occur in their own lifetimes without desiring co-ownership of your particular civic irritation baggage.
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 9:06 p.m.
Spokane Citizen
I’ll let Dick defend himself. Having been an economic crimes detective I find Dick’s financial knowledge a great resource. Look I don’t want to go off thread on RPS. However the $2M dollars we’re paying to svs the debt on the second series of bonds plus general fund money to pay for servicing the parking meters and collecting the coins is not chump change. This hole in the bucket would go a long way to cover our current budget deficit. This is a structural deficit that’s been perking along every year that finally went tilt when the economy turned sour. Further don’t even get me started on CFO Cooley’s Bank of Hein kept of fthe general fund books.
Yes I think Mayor Verner is a nice, well meaning person. However being an attorney I would have expected her to verify the BS that Treppiedi was slinging in the Zehm case. That was her mistake and she went with the flow and conceivably was led by the nose down the primrose path. The fact that the wheels were coming off this case in March and April of 2010 was readily apparent to me. This case should have been settled then instead of stonewalling for over a year and half. Why?
Both Sheriff Bamonte and I supported the then candidate Mary Verner. Once in office she renege of promises she made to Bamonte. Read more here:
http://tinyurl.com/48qh6et
For the record I’m on record that the Mayor should have fired the City Attorney and some Asst. City Attorneys for many transgressions, Rocky Treppiedi, including the now defunct MOBIUS Project, Chief Kirkpatrick, Fire Chief Bobby Williams for the AMR billing fraud et al, CFO Gavin Cooley for playing loose with OPM, and Public Works Director Mandyke on general principle for having wood on too many people. Verner had the people’s mandate to clean house but she chose not to.
Spokane_Citizen on August 23 at 9:07 p.m.
Where the hell did ya’ll go? Is netflix running a ‘Golden Girls’ or ‘Murder, She Wrote’ festival or somethin? Or did last night’s council meetin plumb tucker ya’ll out?
Elkay on August 23 at 9:44 p.m.
@Spokane_Citizen,
I hear what you’re saying to others. Can you please clarify your solutions? Thanks.
misjustice on August 23 at 9:48 p.m.
^ the above back biting, infighting, delay tactic city council non- dealing, small town politicin’, powers that be controlin’, no wage payin’, smokin’ gun drama, corruption, is why younger folks (that can) get the hell out of this cow town as soon as possible; well, that and the cop’s propensity to hurt folks.
Ain’t nothin’ gonna EVER change in this hell hole; no matter how hard earnest and forthright folks try to evoke positive change…
To quote the Joker, “this town needs an enema!”
Just sayin’…
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 9:52 p.m.
Ms. Justy,
ROTFLMAO - Well said! You’ve just about said it all re Spokane Nice:-)
Elkay on August 23 at 10:10 p.m.
How depressing.
Ed Byrnes on August 23 at 10:24 p.m.
I agree that this town needs an enema, actually a high colonic.
I love my adopted community and will use the talents I have to make it a better place. I have been an active member, who worked regularly with police, corrections and the courts, of a community where civilian oversight works and is welcomed by the police. I really don’t care what it takes to make it happen here so long as we keep at it and keep our eyes on the prize.
Even if it requires a public enema of our municipal and law enforcement leadership transparency, accountability and justice are worth it. Keeping the status quo harms our community more than this fight will.
I have learned from some people who have been agitating for change in this town for many years that this has been a long process with many setbacks so I anticipate a long process ahead. Hopefully the same mental state that enables this fifty-something to still ski and bicycle for relatively long distances will give me the strength, endurance and serenity for this journey.
Ed Byrnes
Elkay on August 23 at 10:27 p.m.
Justy, you’re right. My son graduated from UW with honors. He couldn’t find a job ANYWHERE in Spokane. Wound up in Denver. He manages 15 other brokers and they manage 2B (not M, but B) a year. Works his ass off. But no one in Spokane would not look at his ‘potential’.
Duh.
Spokane_Citizen on August 23 at 10:35 p.m.
Well Ron..you certainly have a flair for the dramatic! I’m not taking potshots….I think you’re a righteous dude…but you get so close to a problem….and it consumes your life.
Your issues simply don’t have quite the community traction you might hope for.
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 10:39 p.m.
Elkay,
You really need to read Spokane Economics and Demographics Blog. I gave this to Ms. Justy too:
http://inlandnw.wordpress.com/
This is a cause for another day. For now we need to take care of the immediate problem not to be overly dramatic but it has life and death consequences.
misjustice on August 23 at 10:43 p.m.
Ed, just stay off the streets when on your bike; there are mean spirited folks here that would run you over just because…well, because they hate bikes, and bike lanes, and trees, and clean water, and clean air, and liberals, and change, and teachers, and unions, and wildlife, and people of color, and women, and Oh hell…you get my point.
My earlier post was made out of frustration. I’d like to believe that ordinary folks that care about a community can affect change but what I’ve seen in Spokan’t it just won’t happen here. But good luck to those that want to try; you’re gonna need it!
; )
A few years ago I cared enough about this town to try but now, not so much. Now, I am busy working (out of state because this f’in place held no opportunities for me - also an honors graduate Elkay so I comprehend your son’s plight) and saving enough money to get the hell out of here. The Oregon coast sounds nice…
Spokane_Citizen on August 23 at 10:46 p.m.
This supposed ‘hell hole’ will change you before you change it!
Why did each of you ever leave your former communities of perfection? Did we beckon, with open arms, our sad community’s abject need for individuals of your obvious integrity? Or was it the cheap housing?
Elkay on August 23 at 10:53 p.m.
Ron, I agree. Perhaps my “cause” is that I don’t see us coming together as a community. I’m sorry.
I see the corruption in my beloved Spokane … with the Swells, the High-Ups in LE, our elected officials, and it’s just plain depressing. I always look at actions … not words.
Please, please keep up with your work. I’ll help (as a very simple citizen who believes in the KISS principle). We need to stay focused with user-friendly words so that citizens truly understand what’s going on. It ain’t purdy right now.
LK
Squid on August 23 at 10:54 p.m.
Justy, people pay all your moving expenses to come to them when you have something they want. Put your resume out there and they will come. Personally, I don’t think there is a whole lot of money to be made on the Oregon Coast. East Coast is best. Very low cost of living and high pay. Traffic is bearable too. Atlanta or Savannah are real nice. The majority of corporate headquarters are in Atlanta. Hope you still blog here if you move. I’d miss your sense of humor, even though we see things differently.
Just my 2 cents.
Elkay on August 23 at 10:57 p.m.
@Spokane_Citizen,
Still waiting for some solutions from you. I KNOW you must be brilliant with all the downers you’ve written.
Squid on August 23 at 11:02 p.m.
Coming together as a community is a matter of advertising. Most people aren’t aware of what is going on, or they don’t know where to go to be helpful. I have to believe that people would care and become involved. It’s just a matter of money for the exposure and a place to expose. The Inlander might be a good place to advertise a plan, and to bring in enough money and support to complete that plan. The SR might be opposed, but I don’t know. It’s just restricted by money. Let your wallet be your guide.
Rah rah, sis boom bah! Go team go!
Spokane_Citizen on August 23 at 11:08 p.m.
MsJ…do you really think these people are ‘your’ people? They hate the very things you really care about. They are always on the outside, bitching about people who they think should be punished, rather than actually finding solutions (their ‘solutions’ always involve fantasies of incarcerating community leaders they don’t agree with). Their way is division, and villifcation.
Spokane_Citizen on August 23 at 11:19 p.m.
Yes Elkay…my solutions involve actually plugging away and doing the work of the community…making errors, enjoying some successes, and understanding that the world is rendered in shades of gray…and that the demons under the bed are really mostly figments of imagination. The devil is in the details.
And If those are ‘downer’ statements to you, so be it. I live in the real world, where reality means your hands are going to get dirty, and decisions are complex. That’s what grownups do, while others whine.
DickAdams on August 23 at 11:23 p.m.
So spokane citizen says I look like a nut. Is that so. Spokane Citizen is sticking up for Mayor Verner saying, “Do I think she’s a decent person? Absolutely.” SC is entitled to think whatever he wants too. I don`t happen to think Verner is a decent person. Verner, is a proven liar. Verner also condones,(RT actions) the likes of Rocco Treppiedi, when he counter sues so many citizens who want to be heard. I made a mistake in a post of mine, and admitted to SC, that Verner, was only a councilwoman when Treppiedi let everybody and their brother know his feelings regarding the SPD and backed these storm troopers ” not looking like LE officers” who beat the hell out of poor Otto. Undoubtedly, SC you have read Rococo`s missive of 2006, which in my opinion, Rocco`s mind set writting his letter was a heartless opine and like another kick to Otto`s groin. And to repeat, Verner has lied to the public and should be ashamed of herself. I guess their are persons who think known liars are decent though.
Ron_the_Cop on August 23 at 11:26 p.m.
Spokane Citizens,
Gee that’s what my former colleagues would say and probably the crooks too. More than one former colleague and even a judge or two would tell you they would never want “the rocket” on your tail if you did something wrong:-)
Look unless you have something constructive to bring to this problem, I will probably not reply to you again.
As one supervisor once wrote:
Squid,
No need to pay for any advertisement. Just tell the story and then share with all your friends on your social networks and encourage them all to do the same. And the best part the medium is FREE!
greenlibertarian on August 23 at 11:30 p.m.
Spokalooney, the little city that did, circa 1974, and even that was tainted by the powers that be.
I’m going back to California after 20 years here with a Weekend In My Heart, and a lover From Days of Future Past.
Skoal.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/skoal
Squid on August 23 at 11:33 p.m.
I tot I smelled insanity, hypocrisy, and a Shogan quality tantrum.
greenlibertarian on August 23 at 11:35 p.m.
Going to California, with an aching in my heart.
Good luck.
You’ll need it.
Ed Byrnes on August 23 at 11:36 p.m.
Spokane Citizen,
First off I was actively recruited for over a year to come here. Having seen Utah’s abundant natural beauty get loved nearly to death over two decades made the untrammeled natural beauty around here very desirable, and it still is.
Additionally, I stay here because I love many things about our community. As a parent I simultaneously feel love and hope for positive growth for my sons. Similarly loving a place and striving to make it better are not incongruous.
Placing everyone who disagrees with the status quo into one group, although convenient, is a bit vacuous, is it not?
I have consistently suggested a positive change, a Civilian Review Board to oversee law enforcement misconduct. It is a constructive solution that has been successfully implemented in municipalities throughout our country. Even a cursory review of my postings over the past year will also demonstrate that I remain interested in working toward a solution that is mutually workable to both local law enforcement and civilians. When stronger police oversight is put in place by us citizens or, albeit a less probable event, our municipal leaders, and the guild uses various tactics to delay signing a CBA that includes stronger civilian oversight, we can then see what the PERC has to say about their bargaining in bad faith.
What is your proposed solution? Also, who are you? It’s OK to step out into the light of day with your self as well as your ideas.
Ed Byrnes
Spokane_Citizen on August 23 at 11:39 p.m.
Ron, I could care less if you respond to my posts! YOUR posts make it quite obvious that this is really all about you, and your desire for attention. You miss your days as a self-appointed dragon killer, and you only desire the fawning attentions of potential acolytes. You’ve issued edicts to community leaders as though they carried the force of lawful commands.
Dude, you’re just a citizen these days, and the badge is long gone. Deal with it.
Squid on August 23 at 11:43 p.m.
I did! I did! I did smell it!
Spokane_Citizen on August 23 at 11:59 p.m.
No Ed, your bravery as a fully tenured state employed university professor is not all that impressive. For one thing…you abide among academics (even your administration consists of senior tenured academics) who despise authority figures of any type. So your courageous spirit is quite suspect. And for a certainty, if you so much as suffer even a hint of a career hickup due to your political views you’ll succesfully sue the hell out of the state….so don’t be getting so high and and mighty on the rest of us that work in the real world (and that goes for the retired ‘heroes’ as well).
For the rubes out there…tenure means that one will never face termination no way…no how. It’s as secure as it gets.
arroyoribera on August 24 at 12:03 a.m.
Let me clarify a thing or two about running of the meeting by Joe Shogan, the coverage by Jonathan Brunt, and what occurred with me last night.
First, Mr Shogan is abusive of people and the democratic process. His council colleagues for what ever reasons have chosen to sit silently in the face of the abuse which they have all witnessed on multiple occasions and to which some of them have been subject themselves. Last night Mr. Shogan reminded people that they could speak if they chose to do so on the issues related to the Ombudsman and the council’s plans to move forward with a course of action some of us found questionable but then proceeded to disdainfully and menacingly tell the public why they didn’t need to speak, why it would be a waste of their time to speak, why the council’s actions made the public speaking unnecessary, and essentially that he could give a flying you know what any ways so please save him the annoyance of democratic input. Center for Justice Communications Director Tim Connor was the first to speak and make it clear that there were important things still to be said. Others also rose to speak. Kiondara Bullock, director of Voices, with whom Mr. Shogan has had contact at council meetings and elsewhere, also spoke (but only after Mr. Shogan could not pronounce her name). Mr. Shogan made his disdain for the public more than evident in his interruptions and body language throughout the presentations of the several speakers. Several speakers also passed on speaking. I also spoke, pointing out that the death of Otto Zehm constituted a world class human rights abuse that 6 years after the atrocity remains in the realm of impunity, coverup and lies — all of which is just beginning to unravel, without the council’s involvement. With good reason, many of us distrust the intent of some members of the council with regard to oversight of the police and I expressed that, as did others. Mr. Shogan needs to facilitate the process of the council and get his ego and abusive, controlling nature out of the way of people’s right to use the established process to share their views. It is time for Mr. Shogan to return to private life where perhaps his evident unhappiness will not effect the people’s business.
Second, Jonathan Brunt does a very fine job in general of covering city business. He is probably present for the Monday evening council sessions more frequently than anyone in the city of Spokane, other than the council itself and its staff. If I understand correctly, it is his beat. Mr. Brunt well knows of Mr. Shogan’s abuse or, if Brunt does not view Shogan as abusive, at least his cantankerous, rude and authoritarian approach as well as the fact that many citizens object to Mr. Shogan’s style and that there have been other council meetings where Shogan’s abusiveness brought public comment, complaint, boos, etc. Mr. Brunt also knows that at every council seesion, Mr. Shogan has before him a list of names of the people who are going to speak. I, for one, write my name very clearly in signing up to speak. I have spoken before the council and Mr. Shogan numerous times on this issue and others. I have spoken to Mr. Shogan after council meetings. I have sent him various signed e-mails. He has no doubt read any number of letters to the editor I have written on police issues and may well be aware of my blog, Spokane Police Abuses. Mr. Shogan, if he doesn’t know my name, has it in writing on the sign-in list that he has before him, just as he has a sign-in list of speakers for each issue on the council’s agenda. I did in fact correct Mr Shogan each time he mispronounced my name as did others who names were mispronounced.
(to be continued as exceeds 4000 character limit)
arroyoribera on August 24 at 12:06 a.m.
(continued from above) But beyond that, Mr. Brunt, unless he was asleep, well knows that my anger, frustration and outrage was directed at Mr. Shogan’s abusiveness and rudeness, not at the mispronunciation of my name. That will be clear in the video of the proceedings when it is posted on the city website, regardless of how unflattering my manner of objection may be towards myself. My objection to Mr. Shogan’s abusiveness was included in the content of my three minutes before the council and that was the content of my words when — after Mr. Shogan dismissed a speaker who had been shot 8 times in the valley and was addressing the problems resulting from having the Spokane Police investigating County or valley law enforcement and vice versa. This was important testimony and of interest to much of the public. Simply put, Mr. Shogan, despite the fact that he acts like a US-installed despot in the developing world, is not. As council president he has a job to maintain order but his abusiveness of people and of the process does not obligate me to sit still in the face of his tyranny. Though I have little faith in it, this is the United States, we have a constitution, we have traditions, and you, Mr. Shogan, are a fascist. In the face of your abuse, I will always speak up.
Third, as to what happened to me, I rose to object to Mr. Shogan, told him that he was abusive and rude (a sentiment held by everyone I have ever spoken to about the council), and stated that I would leave the council floor either escorted or unescorted by law enforcement. Not one to tolerate small, anti-democratic behavior by so-called leaders, I continued to speak until I was out of the chamber. I am not intimidated by law enforcement when it comes to freedom of expression. Our conscience should be our dictate and mine is and was last night.
I can only remember when I first met Mr. Shogan, at the Garland Street Fair. This angry, unhappy looking man walked up me, shoved his campaign literature into my hand and walked off. I remember thinking at the time that he had been told to something to do with his evenings. It is truly unfortunate that he chose to subject the public to repeated shows of intolerance, lecturing, gavel-pounding and censorship.
Mr. Shogan will be gone in 4 months when he is term-limited out. However, I would suggest that if he can not stop his anti-democratic, abusive behavior, he should resign. In the absence of that, his council members should intervene by addressing him directly about his behavior and calling for an end to it. It may in fact be time for some sort of an ethics or rules actions against Mr. Shogan. Whatever the case, I stand by my comments. And frankly, regarding my name, I could careless. Nevertheless, unlike most here present, I will happily sign with my name.
David Brookbank
Ron_the_Cop on August 24 at 12:08 a.m.
SC
Good nite sleep well and don’t let the bed bugs bite:-)
Squid,
You could have a point.
Spokane_Citizen on August 24 at 12:18 a.m.
David…it’s obviously mostly about having your name butchered isn’t it?
Seriously, from the time you came up to the podium, your anger was at least as palpable as Shogan’s. I can’t imagine you’d fare better were you in his place. Think about giving it a try as an elected official. You might gain perspective.
arroyoribera on August 24 at 12:40 a.m.
You are correct, Spokane_Citizen. My anger — unapologetic anger — and that of many in this community will be palpable, from the podium and the street, until this matter is resolved, i.e., the permanent establishment of effective, independent oversight of a police department which has engaged in the killing of Otto Zehm, the killing of Jerome Alford, the killing of Eagle Michael, the maiming of Sean Fitzpatrick, and the suicide of Josh Levy without any independent outside review. Personally I have no problem with anger when justified. However, anger like that of Shogan at a public expressing itself in a democratic forum established for that purpose is an example of unacceptable abuse of power, as I explained above.
One of the tools of power in this country is the delegitimization of anger. Essentially the reason people in the US are not able to effectively confront the outrages of our government is that — unlike the rest of the world — we have been emotionally decapitated. Anger is a socially sanctioned emotion in this country, portrayed either as dangerous, out of control, a sign of mental illness or self-serving. This suits the agenda of power just fine. What distinguishes us from people all over the world is our inability to feel, enunciate and then act upon indignation over genocide committed in our names abroad, human rights abuses at home, the multi-trillion dollar theft of public wealth by this country’s elites in collusion with our two party ruling class consensus, and any number of a long list of realities and atrocities in this country today.
David Brookbank
arroyoribera on August 24 at 1:08 a.m.
Patiently awaiting your anonymous response, Spokane_Citizen.
David Brookbank
mtorres55 on August 24 at 6:07 a.m.
Brookbank’s description of Shogan’s appalling rudeness and abuse of power is spot on.
It was also clear that Brookbank’s anger about the mispronunciation of his name was not about his own name, but about the deliberate way Shogan uses those mispronunciations to telegraph his contempt for the speakers - and he made that point clearly. Shogan did it to quite a few speakers that night, primarily those he deals with regularly and clearly knows, such as Brookbank, Kiondra Bullock, etc.
Ron the Cop - I so often disagree with your positions, but your recommendations to the Council (stated in your post above) for what this city needs as re this rogue police dept and the Zehm killing and other abuses are also spot on. Thank you. Surely the conspiracies around this killing qualifies for a RICO investigation, don’t they?
The City Council did an end run around the community at that meeting. No one expected the withdrawing of Rush’s resolution and the decision to “write a letter” to PERC that will run out our appeal time limit. This action reminded me of the old chant parody: What do we want? Reform! When do we want it? As soon as possible!
We need to keep the pressure on, and we need to let the Council know that we’re very aware that in spite of their strong statements of support, they (with the exception of Rush) are actually NOT much in support of a strong ombudsman position, and in spite of their attempting to take credit for it after it was achieved, in fact they either opposed it or came to it kicking and screaming when they realized the community demanded it.
We’ve got a LOT of work to do!
Marianne Torres
Spokane_Citizen on August 24 at 6:20 a.m.
Sorry for the slow response David….but I figured you weren’t done frothing at the mouth yet!
brianrbreen on August 24 at 7:27 a.m.
@Spokane_Citizen
You are right of course about the Guild having a trump card in binding arbitration. They also have several other cards they haven’t played for one reason or another. I think you would have to agree the biggest fear the city has with binding arbitration is the possibility that wages would go up.
I don’t know the Mayor, never met her, from what I understand she is a good women despite the fact she is a lawyer :). Don’t you think as Mayor she should be out front in trying to find an honest oversight solution, one that isn’t farcical and includes oversight of the departments administrative practices. There are a number of ways for her and the council to demonstrate they sincerely want that. One that stands out is working with the County Commissioners to implement a Coroners Inquest for all officer involved deaths, yet even though her Chief and the County Sheriff are in favor of it she has done nothing to try and make it happen. As you know if the County enacted such an ordinance the Guild would have absolutely nothing to say about it. I’ve been involved in inquests and if they are set up correctly to do allow for considerable transparency. Something I think the community is looking for.
I’m afraid that many people don’t understand just how farcical the OPO is whether he had investigative powers or not. I also believe the Mayor is fully aware that the OPO means nothing, and that has been demonstrated time and again.
Why not use your influence and suggest that now is the time, before the trial starts, to step up and try to come up with honest solutions that are acceptable to all the parties involved.
greenlibertarian on August 24 at 10:15 a.m.
No Ed, your bravery as a fully tenured state employed university professor is not all that impressive. For one thing…you abide among academics (even your administration consists of senior tenured academics) who despise authority figures of any type
Quite the stereotype there, “Spokane_Citizen”.
Good to know how you filter information via unjust and sweeping stereotypes.
Not surprised.
mmspowaus on August 24 at 11:04 a.m.
“The debate included a few shouting matches between attendees and Council President Joe Shogan”
Why is this news? It happens every week. Last week there was also a match with fellow council member Steve Corker….
The city will be better off in January 2012 when Shogun is gone from the show….
.Shogun will be Shogone…forever….
I wonder how City Cable 5 ratings will do when Showun is voted off the Island?
Squid on August 24 at 11:55 a.m.
I don’t think that transparency is all that important to me, as much as having faith that the police, City officials, and elected officials are abiding by the same laws that citizens are, as well as just plain doing the best job they can. In other words, when an officer makes a huge mistake, hold that officer accountable so other officers know that it’s far from acceptable to make that mistake. That’s how it’s done in all aspects of society, including every other job in the World and the laws of the land.
When citizens see that time and time again, officers get away with shooting just about anyone at the drop of a hat, and those victims are just plain old neighbors with families or in this case, a wrongly accused guy who is blocking baton strikes to his skull, then the citizens will get edgy. This can happen to anyone. It’s not human nature to play dead when getting your head bashed in. Not that it’s OK in the first place to bash someone’s head, just to relieve your stress.
The management has continually enabled beatings and murders of some of our good citizens. None were gang bangers or violent criminals, except the shooting by Joe Albi, which was a very sloppy shoot, in my opinion. Too much led flying in a highly populated area. I don’t want to get into individual cases…..
Anyway, it’s obvious to me that there has been no recourse, for any bad deeds of any officer. If an officer murders someone, and then rape a woman while bar hopping in a patrol car, that officer gets fired for a short time, and then rehired. What message does that send to other officers? Looks to me like they know that there is no line they can’t cross.
I could go on and on…… I’ll just say that for me, it’s better to have a few high quality officers than a giant terrified mob of officers with itchy trigger fingers. The officers need to use more psychology to diffuse good people having bad days. The methods of control are out of control.
Maybe 5 seconds to respond to a command….. Maybe being a little polite, instead of ordering rudely or taunting. Some people just don’t respond well to authority, but that’s just not cause for killing. Having a “type A” personality is a death sentence, if you have an encounter with police. Kinda funny that it’s almost a job requirement for officers to have a type A personality, yet they can’t communicate with like personalities.
I’m preaching to the choir. I shut up now.
lynns on August 24 at 3:57 p.m.
This thread is getting pretty cumbersome, veering away from comments on the story and into a forum for publishing novellas on ombudsman ideas. We have no problem with passionate discussion of the issue, but I hope y’all can find a more appropriate place to meet up and discuss these minutiae.
Lynn, S-R Web producer