Spokane7
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December 16, 2011 in City
Zehm settlement elusive
Plaintiffs say they’re waiting on city, insurer
Thompson
(Full-size photo)
Despite calling for “all courses of action” four months ago to settle the civil suit brought by the mother and estate of Otto Zehm, it appears Mary Verner will step down as mayor of Spokane without resolving the case.
Attorneys Breean Beggs and Jeffry Finer, who represent Zehm’s mother and estate, said they could not comment about negotiations. However, they did say they are still waiting to hear from the city and its insurance underwriter, American International Group.
“I’m not aware of any movement in the case,” Finer said.
Verner said time is running out to reach a settlement before Mayor-elect David Condon takes over.
“Anything is possible,” she said. “I don’t know if it’s likely, primarily because the City Council is adjourning on Dec. 19, and I think it’s going to take more time. With the City Council not able to ratify a settlement agreement, then it couldn’t be considered technically settled.”
As part of its insurance plan, the city is on the hook for the first $1 million in liability litigation. Included in that first million is the $119,000 already paid to attorney Carl Oreskovich’s firm to represent former officer Karl F. Thompson Jr. in the civil case, city spokeswoman Marlene Feist said.
AIG would then pay the next $10 million and the city would be on the hook for anything more than that.
Bob Dunn, a veteran civil attorney who just won a $700,000 jury award in a case of wrongful termination against Spokane police Chief Anne Kirkpatrick, said he is unsurprised by the delay between Verner’s stated wishes and a settlement in the Zehm civil case.
“If there is an insurance company involved, the insurance company is the hang-up,” Dunn said. “They are entitled to have their own lawyers evaluate this thing. I suspect they want the transcripts from the criminal case” and evidence the judge “kept out of the criminal case.”
Thompson was convicted on Nov. 2 of using excessive force and lying to investigators to cover up his confrontation with Zehm on March 18, 2006. After Zehm struggled with Thompson, several other officers hog-tied Zehm and placed a mask over his face. He stopped breathing and died two days later.
Thompson remains out of jail pending his Jan. 27 sentencing. Prosecutors are expected to seek as much as 10 years in federal prison. His defense attorneys have until Dec. 23 to file a motion seeking a new trial.
As for the civil case, Verner announced in August that she would seek a settlement after federal prosecutors filed court documents showing that Assistant Chief Jim Nicks said Thompson violated department policy and detectives improperly investigated the confrontation in which Zehm was struck multiple times with a baton and Tasered at least four times.
Up until then, the city’s only public position on the case came in the 56-page answer to the civil suit that was issued in 2009 just one day prior to Thompson’s indictment in federal court.
In that document, co-authored by Oreskovich and Assistant City Attorney Rocky Treppiedi, the city essentially blamed Zehm for his own death because he resisted Thompson.
As for the current delay, Dunn said he doesn’t think a month and a half is a very long time for the insurance company to evaluate the case.
“The only thing the insurance company is trying to figure out is how many zeroes to put on this settlement,” Dunn said. “It’s going to be seven or eight figures.”
Finer said that if a settlement isn’t reached, he expects that U.S. District Judge Lonny Suko will lift the stay he placed on the civil suit soon after Thompson is sentenced.
In addition to Thompson, the suit names Nicks, retired Detective Terry Ferguson and officers Steven Braun, Zach Dahle, Erin Raleigh, Dan Torok, Ron Voeller and Jason Uberuaga.
If the case goes to trial, the city runs the risk of allowing a jury to decide both actual and punitive damages, which are unlimited, Dunn said.
“It depends on how incensed a jury would be after viewing the videotape,” Dunn said. “And a lot of things not allowed in the criminal case would be allowed in the civil case. The fact that he hadn’t committed a crime may make him much more sympathetic to a jury.”
Finer would not comment when asked if the city is putting itself in greater financial danger if the case goes to trial.
But, he added: “The door for discussions has been open since the month following Zehm’s death.”
Reporter Jonathan Brunt contributed to this report.
1992 murder trial begins against sex offender 
ChefGus/ John Olsen on December 16 at 5:06 a.m.
That this tragic case continues to be front burner in the media, is a clear sign of the intransigence of our city leaders, including the city council members in not doing their jobs. This civil rights case, also has civil implications and costs that will be multiplied exponentially by having not come to a settlement out of court. Los Stupidos… Los Todos Stupidos…. john
D Statler on December 16 at 6:44 a.m.
This is a tough time for the city leaders. I am guessing the city’s insurer is not wanting to pay after finding out about the coverups. The settlement will cost millions more because of the mistakes made by Spokane leaders. I wish we could divvy the settlement responsibilities between everybody that had a hand in Ottos death and the exposed ongoing coverup.
Otto has already won. He has effected real change in Spokane’s heavy handed police tactics. This was a costly lesson for the Zehm family and will in return be a costly lesson for our city. Lets hope that Otto’s lesson lives forever. Us janitors gotta stick together :^)
Ed Byrnes on December 16 at 8:40 a.m.
From a personal responsibility and accountability perspective I am pleased to read the list of names who are respondents named in this suit.
Ed
brianrbreen on December 16 at 10:00 a.m.
Some people seem to lose sight of the fact that had this case been handled with honesty, integrity, and ethics from the very beginning there would be no need for all of this. KT would have faced criminal charges at the State level. He would no longer be a police officer, the settlement much easier, and perhaps…just perhaps…other officers wouldn’t be facing criminal charges.
I still wonder if the insurance company and the city might try and seek a summary judgment.
Yes, Ed, there is no question there needs to be some oversight with teeth.
DocTom on December 16 at 10:27 a.m.
I seriously doubt that the City will EVER locate a company to insure with after this massive cover up. This means of course that the City will now self-insure and this equates to an absolute nightmare. Until such time as we see an “open government”, to include every department, leader, supervisor, and employee, then this disaster will continue to reappear in different forms.
The mayor-elect of course is a career politician and I seriously doubt that he will enact any type of serious reform. The same holds true with the City Council and that of the Council President. Biz as usual.
Eliminating the SPD and allowing the Sheriff to absorb, refine, and bust up the Guild is a good step. If he fails to perform, the electorate process will eliminate this challenge. Start by instituting this initial step, then recall the elected Prosecutor. Follow up with demands to replace every corrupted person within the structure.
brianrbreen on December 16 at 10:36 a.m.
@DocTom
I don’t think the city will have a problem finding an insurer when this contract runs. But the premiums you and I will have to pay will be enormous. Just like a 20 year old kid with 10 tickets and 5 accidents can find insurance, just has to pay through the nose.
Shelala on December 16 at 11:57 a.m.
Finally some figures in what this incident is costing the taxpayers.Thanks SR. This is the cost to bring just one bad apple to justice. Is it worth the financial (or even moral risk) to keep other bad apples on the department? If your pitbull bites someone, time to get rid of the dogs or accept the liability with expensive insurance. Time to put the bad dogs down.
brianrbreen on December 16 at 3:50 p.m.
@Shelala
I don’t believe CO’s $200,000.00 retainer or the $75,000.00 retainer for Nick’s conflict representation would be included in the one million dollar self insurance liability. Both were separate expenditures voted on by the City Council.
It would be very difficult for a private citizen to determine exactly how much this cost. I’m sure wages were paid to officers under subpoena by the defense and prosecution however their travel expense should have been reimbursed to the city via CJA funds or the DOJ for those under DOJ subpoenas. Including the costs of city vehicles traveling to and from Yakima. I doubt any effort has been made at this point seek reimbursement for those costs.
I’m sure any efforts to try and get an accounting of the costs would show some very interesting things that have gone on.
Shelala on December 16 at 5:18 p.m.
@Brian
The public is upset about some city councilmen hiring assistants and/or benefits, but this absolutely pales in comparison of the amounts paid with tax dollars for the incident involving KT. This will effect every single citizen and will impact funding. All of that because of one bad cop’s actions.I know I feel warm and fuzzy knowing that my tax dollars paid for some KT supporters to travel to his trial to show their support. It was just darn nice of me to spend my tax dollars to support Nick’s confusion about the truth. I bet the city bean counters know the exact costs and I will bet they don’t want you to know. Maybe it would be a great story for the SR. (no so subtle hint).
Davida on December 16 at 6:11 p.m.
I traveled at my own expense….my car, my gas, my food, my essentials, and my time, to travel to the trial…As I know ALL other supporters that were not under Subpoena to be there did….
Shelala on December 16 at 6:30 p.m.
@Davida
I didn’t know if you were there or not. Good to know you traveled at your own expense. Since you are a regular on the KT support site, can you tell me how much was donated through wristband sales and directly and what it paid for? No stone throwing’-just a question.
PlanB on December 16 at 6:37 p.m.
Why isn’t Oreskovich named in the suit? He was directly involved in the cover up that he continues to benefit from financially.
Davida on December 16 at 7:01 p.m.
Shelala….I really don’t know how much was raised. But I think, some of the money went to pay for expert witnesses that were not paid for by defense funds…..Before everyone starts screaming about paid expert witnesses…..that is a common if not always the case in trials….
Davida on December 16 at 7:05 p.m.
Some of the money probably also helped with for KT travel costs….However, keep in mind I really DON’T know how it was disbursed…..but that is my best guess…
Davida on December 16 at 7:09 p.m.
And at $10 a band….I am sure it was not an absorbent amount…..
Shelala on December 16 at 7:50 p.m.
@Davida
Thanks for the response. I was under the impression that expert witness costs in an indigent DOJ case were included in payment for his defense, but I’m no attorney either. In the interest of transparency and disclosure, I would be interested to know exactly how much was collected and where it was spent. The sales were promoted as a non-profit group. I think as such, they are required to disclose these amounts. As a matter of fact, I think they are required. To release an accounting would go a long way in quieting detractors including me. $10.00 a wristband may be not much, but multiplied by 1000 (which was stated on their own site) is a minimum of $10,000.00, which is a chunk of change and that doesn’t even included direct donations. I do know that when you ask for public donations whatever the cause, you have to be accountable for the funds.
Davida on December 16 at 8:03 p.m.
Well I am not well versed in the legalities either…. I definitely am not opposed to encouraging the release of those figures….I don’t know that anyone is trying to hide the amount…I just don’t know that they have been actually asked….As far as costs being covered for “indigent” clients….I am sure alot of the costs are….However, I am sure that not ALL of KT’s were…..I know when they first started talking about raising money….expert witnesses costs were mentioned, as well as lodging, transportation, food, as such…..
Davida on December 16 at 8:13 p.m.
In general, what public disclosure requirements apply to tax-exempt organizations?
In general, exempt organizations must make available for public inspection certain annual returns and applications for exemption, and must provide copies of such returns and applications to individuals who request them. Copies usually must be provided immediately in the case of in-person requests, and within 30 days in the case of written requests. The tax-exempt organization may charge a reasonable copying fee plus actual postage, if any. The IRS must also make this same information publicly available.
Shelala on December 16 at 8:28 p.m.
@Davida
I think you have to be recognized as having a tax exempt status in the first place. There are different reporting requirements for charitable solicitations and non profits and there are also exemptions, but I am not sure if KT’s defense would be among those. I am sure you realize that this information is easily available through DOR or the SOS website through access.wa.gov. Why not just disclose?
Davida on December 16 at 8:44 p.m.
Like I said…I don’t know the legalities….I just googled public disclosure requirements for Non-Profits, and that is what I came up with…….I REALLY would disclose, BUT I don’t have all the information to look it up….I did not start the organization. IF I did start it and had all information too look it up I certainly would….all I can do is encourage the release of the information….
Shelala on December 16 at 8:59 p.m.
@Davida
I guess I asked because your name appears on the site. I don’t know who started the site or controls the sales,and donations, so it would be a little unfair to pick on you for the numbers. It would seem reasonable that whoever has coordinated those efforts come forward with the information, so as not to create even a hint of impropriety or before it becomes an issue. IMO now is the time for complete transparency. Just sayin…
greenlibertarian on December 16 at 9:04 p.m.
It is clear that a cult of personality was established around Thompson and that more than a few former and current SPD officers are still operating in that fashion.
Sadly, this will not mend fences between the public in general and LE Officers who still have an extremely important job to do.
Not to mention that LARGE dollars are at stake here, and who will have to cough up what.
It didn’t have to go down like this. I think, all things considered, Thompson on balance was a good cop, but he made a VERY bad decision that evening, and The Powers That Be set about immediately to cover up what really happened.
Yet, a reckoning did occur. Thompson was given every benefit of the doubt at trial. A jury simply could not have believed Thompson’s defense in light of the immense amount of evidence to the contrary.
I can understand having feelings of support towards a good friend, a mentor perhaps. But it is sheer folly to argue that Thompson’s actions were completely justified that fateful evening.
Finally, Jimmy Marx is laughing his head off. The rest of us aren’t so happy with what has transpired.
Davida on December 16 at 9:06 p.m.
And I dont disagree with you Shelala….Im sorry I can’t be of more help…..
Shelala on December 16 at 9:40 p.m.
@davida
I just picked myself off the floor. This is the first I have agreed with you on anything.
Davida on December 16 at 10:02 p.m.
@Shelala….well I hope you didn’t hurt yourself….I really am a reasonable person….as I am sure you are..
brianrbreen on December 16 at 10:33 p.m.
@Davida
I’m sure you did travel at your own expense. However as you may know not all did.
I have no idea how there could be any expense for experts for KT. I have had many federal indigent cases and all the expert costs were paid from CJA funds, not from private funds. So the collection of donations for experts doesn’t make sense to me and quite frankly to many other folks that have been involved in panel cases.
Not any of your posts necessarily, but I am wondering whether any of the officers posting on there have thought about some of the public statements they have made that may later come back to haunt them. It’s my opinion of course, but I think the Facebook thing was a real dumb move and if someone really felt the need to provide KT with support there were a number of other ways to handle it.
@Shelala
Davida could correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe Sgt. Kevin King is responsible for the Facebook page.
greenlibertarian on December 16 at 11:46 p.m.
“It’s my opinion of course, but I think the Facebook thing was a real dumb move”
-Brianbreen
It’s called sheer arrogance. And “people” like Davida thrive on such. They’re better than everyone else. They are the ONLY thing standing between freedom and democracy, and absolute anarchy.
You didn’t get the memo?
Why, without super-citizens like Klubber and Davida, society would be nothing but dog-eat-dog. THEY are God’s gift to sanity and peacekeeping.
Even when they blatantly murder somebody, like Otto. Mere collateral damage, no big deal, move along now, folks. Had to be done.
brianrbreen on December 17 at 8:38 a.m.
@greenlibertarian
Oh, I got the memo all right, but the dissemination of the memo was from a mixed bag. Some good, some bad, and some just plain indoctrinated into a badge heavy culture. A cop goes through metaphoric stages during their career and just like any other job their leadership and those around them shape the end result. Some are lead in the right direction others are not. Every cop that I have ever known has gone through the badge heavy stage, including myself. Some come out of it, some don’t. The trick is to make sure the ones that don’t are recognized and watched like a hawk.
As far as you and Davida are concerned you are both on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to law enforcement, yet you have a lot in common when it comes to dealing with issues of hatred, so it’s a bit difficult for me to understand why there couldn’t be some kind of honest dialog there.
I personally don’t attribute Davida or Erin’s reactions to the Zehm case as “arrogance”. I attribute it more to having been molded over fifteen years in a work environment that some how got out of control and needs to be reshaped. Don’t get me wrong I don’t agree with her or Erin, and question their judgment, but when I look at some of the other Facebook posters and draw a comparison, I personally, based on what I know, see a distinct difference between them and those I consider a big part of the problem. If one were to scrutinize the posts on that page during the trial and post conviction one would find that the true “Cowboys” are taking the 5th.
Davida on December 17 at 8:59 a.m.
@ Brian…there is ONE officer that did not travel at his own expense, and that is because I believe he was there as a guild representative, and not under subpoena . As far as his expenses I don’t believe he was personally given a car, lodging or essentials, by the dept. It is my understanding that he had to go over with officer’s that were already issued the car due to being subpoenaed. As far as where he stayed, again his lodging, food, and essentials were not paid for by the department, they were paid for by donations. As far as expert witnesses fee’s. You apparently know more about that issue then I do….I was just trying to remember what was discussed when supporters were discussing what the funds would go for. I could certainly be wrong about the expert witness fees. I definitely don’t have all the answers to the questions.
As far as greenlibertarian I wont even respond. He doesn’t know me therefore him stating that my attitude is arrogant is just a statement trying to bait me into an argument, and I will not engage…it is a mute point.
Davida on December 17 at 10:32 a.m.
@Brian I do appreciate that at least when you voice your disagreement with me it is in a respectful manner…I take no offense when you state your opinion of me being “molded” by a department out of control…those are you thoughts and you certainly are entitled to them…I also don’t take offense when you say you question my judgement….I don’t take offense because of the way you present your thoughts…..It is the statements made by greenlibertarian, misjustice, and others that do not help their cry for transparency….It is those that make me question why I even got on here to try and show that there are officers who are approachable and not afraid of transparency…..maybe it was my mistake for thinking that people really would want an open dialogue…it is greenliberataian/misjustice and some others who don’t want to hear anything…they just want a punching bag. Like I said…I don’t have ALL the answers….however I could have been an allie in trying to get SOME of the answers…..now I am questioning what use that would be…..I am finding that MOST on here…NOT including you, don’t WANT answers…..they just want to be angry at someone…at all costs. So maybe I am not the person to try to show transparency….I will just go back to being the silent majority….but don’t knock me for trying….
brianrbreen on December 17 at 10:48 a.m.
@Davida
Well Davida, I’m not going to make an issue of it. My issue as you know is with the salute. I think you probably sense that perhaps I know some things (despite what some might say) you aren’t aware of. Those “things” represent to me a complete lack of leadership and a small influential group willing to take advantage of that fact.
One “thing” in particular, so far, which stands out to me, and in my opinion boils down to…oops… we got caught and we better correct it, may or may not make the light of day, that remains to be seen. If it does, no matter what the explanation is, “mistake”, misunderstanding, or whatever it might be, I doubt I will be convinced and I really doubt given what has happened in the Zehm case and others a majority of the public will buy it either.
The cards are stacked against you here. I understand what you are trying to do and I like the fact you are trying to do it, but in my opinion your efforts would be better served in trying to do it during each and every one of your on the job contacts. That’s where the healing begins…not here. There is a lot of cleaning up to do but it’s not your job to do it. For the first time in a long time the public has the upper hand, and it’s time to realize that.
When it comes to law enforcement establishing trust and respect with the community there is no such thing as a “mute point” and arrogance on both sides has to be set aside, yes even me. Davida, its time for less rhetoric and a lot more LULU.
Davida on December 17 at 11:30 a.m.
@Brian….I definitely hear what you are saying….and obviously there are things that I know….and points that I agree with, that I can not elaborate on here, for obvious reasons. I can assure you that I DO try to make all of my professional contacts a positive note…..I try to take the time to explain to the people I am in contact with why I have to do the things I do…such as why I have to make an arrest….why I may or may not write them a ticket..(personally I think in most traffic stops, a kind warning goes a long way, unless of course the driver is just being reckless) why or why not I can NOT make an arrest….I try my best to treat everyone with respect…I try to be sympathetic when sympathy is needed…. I try to explain why things went down, the way they went down….good or perceived bad….I agree it is never a mute point to try to establish trust and respect to the majority of the people….however, there does come a time with certain people, when it IS mute…such as when they just want to make verbal attacks on a person when all they are trying to do is answer questions to the best of their ability….Those are the ones that I don’t have time or gumption to repeatedly try to answer to….there is a time when one just has to walk away…..I was never trying to convince anyone of anything in the Zehm case…other then that there are people who are supporters of KT that are open to hearing non-supporters constructive criticisms or opinions and evaluate what they do in their daily actions. There are definitely some issues that people will never see eye to eye on…and Zehm is one of those. I don’t fault anyone for their opinions, nor do I have the audacity to think I have the “power” to change anyone’s mind. That is what our great country is about…It is about being able to have different views/opinions, having the right to voice those opinions, and having the right to agree to disagree….
Shelala on December 17 at 11:51 a.m.
The public is not going to move on and establish a dialog until they are certain changes are made and they are assure the SPD deserves their trust. Davida, you are to be commended for trying to extend that proverbial olive branch, but as a vocal supporter of KT and a member of SPD, it’s a hollow gesture unless it is backed by insight, transparency and respect. Trying to mix oil and water. Some citizens take issue with the mudslinging that went on by the SPD on their support page, others have bigger issues with the infamous salute and some, like me, are appalled by the cost to the community of an incident that should have never happened. We are all saddened that Otto Zehm lost his life needlessly. I personally have strong beliefs that the vehement supporters of KT have shown a lack of remorse, insight and not conducted themselves as what the public expects from law enforcement. Unlike Brian, I have absolutely no desire to attempt to reform. mold or otherwise salvage those officers. They represent liability to me and always will. As long as they are on the force, the possibility of another Otto exists because they can’t understand or accept that KT’s action were wrong. The facebook and donations page simply show arrogance. The mere fact that they feel entitled to label themselves as a non proit organization and reap the benefits of this designation and collect donations without any sort of accounting, tells me that either they feel the laws do not apply to them or they did not exercise good judgement. Neither of which is acceptable for a law enforcement officer. The site’s creator, Sgt. King, is not exactly in a rush to be transparent regarding the money he raised and where it was spent now is he? A quick Google search of Sgt King, shows me he has had his own issues with allegations of police brutality. He even has a LE site blog where he has proudly posted a video of a suspect being tasered (the correct way, of course). I didn’t expect much and I wasn’t disappointed. Bully with a badge.
Davida on December 17 at 11:59 a.m.
@Brian…and my above comment is not meant to be construed as I have never fallen short of making all of my contacts in 15 years positive….I am only human and can admit I have made mistakes….I can admit I have been wrong…and have been appropriately disciplined in the past, and deserved to be disciplined….have I ever made a mistake so horrible it deserved to be a fireable offense? No, but was I mature enough to admit I was wrong…absolutely. Have I been a little irritable or short of patience on a call….of course, again I am only human….but I can also say I have taken the time on some of those contacts where I recognized I was falling short, and apologized to the contact….In my younger days…did my pride sometimes get in the way…absolutely! But isn’t that what growing, maturing, and learning is all about?? Brian I think you know what I am talking about….. so out of curiosity I am wondering how many years you were with SPD…and how many of those were on the streets, and how many were in other areas? Just curious..
Davida on December 17 at 12:18 p.m.
@Shelala….Let me start off and say..I personally was not at the courthouse for the salute that has caused so much controversy, therefore I am not in a position to say how it all happened….I can only imagine that the FB page was formed after all the hateful things were being said, via media. I am not making excuses just saying that I know some supporters were tired of SOME mis-information being reported, and wanted to let KT know that he had supporters from all of the name calling, such as Klubber Karl….I truly don’t believe anyone INTENDED for it to be disrespectful…call me naive if you like….but that is MY feeling. As far as appropriate use of tazer….there ARE times when it is appropriate….I had to use it just last week, on a knife wielding suspect….Of course that contact ended up with everyone going home safe that night, and the suspect in custody, and unharmed…but you don’t hear of those incidents in the media….For MOST people in the LE field that has spent any time on the street….”allegations” of brutality are part of the job….many suspects make all kinds of “allegations”…in some cases in some departments are they true?….Sure. In some cases are they false? Of course!! Just because they have been alleged, does not necessarily mean they are true….I don’t know what case you are referring too, so I have no insight on it, AND it would not be my place to comment on it. That is up to someone with many more stripes then I have….and as far as the $$ amount that has actually been raised from the supporters of KT, again I don’t know that the question has been asked to the appropriate person…I just don’t have those figures for you….
brianrbreen on December 17 at 12:23 p.m.
@Davida
Ah yes “Tickets” that is another area we would probably disagree on. See I probably still hold the record for least tickets on the SPD; 26 years, 3 tickets. I still have my original ticket book. I neglected to turn it in. The one that orders the offender to report to or pay at 242 West Riverside. Made a lot of stops, did a lot of talking, but my view was that tickets was the Motors job not mine, my job was to catch crooks.
It took probably five or six PAR review sit-downs with the Sgt. Before they figured out I wasn’t a ticket writer, nor would I ever be. I know times have changed but I enjoyed the interaction with the public and felt for me at least I could score more points with people if I left it on a positive note. I’m not saying that was or is right for everyone, but it was for me.
Heck, do what you have to do kid, but don’t underestimate the power a good law enforcement officer has to turn around some of those that dislike cops. Even if it’s only to the point that they will step in and help when you are getting your arse kicked out of some modicum of respect they gained somewhere. You can relate to that I’m sure.
Davida on December 17 at 12:56 p.m.
Well another thing we obviously have in common…. I’m not a HUGE ticket writer either…I also prefer to catch the criminals….I don’t think we would disagree with the “ticket” issue…but that is probably ALL i should say on that subject….
Davida on December 17 at 12:58 p.m.
And you are right in your last paragraph…I can relate to that…you must have googled and found an “incident”….
brianrbreen on December 17 at 1:10 p.m.
@Davida
Okay here we go…the old you lazy arse Detectives don’t know what it’s like to be on the street. I heard the same crap just the other day from an old Patrol oriented guy who spent exactly 4 months in the Dix’s office then went back to patrol because he didn’t like the lack of initiative by some. Well you are right to an extent, true for some not for others.
To answer your question, on the job 1969, Dix’s office 1973. But, in uniform alone as extra jobs keeping the peace. Flame, Alaskan, Barbary Coast, Pine Shed and a bunch of other joints while in the Dix’s office. Along with the Racetrack, and up until the end penalty box at the hockey games. In all of those places I quickly learned that if I didn’t want my ass kicked and I wanted back up from the patrons I had to treat everyone including the guy I fought the week before with respect. So the old I don’t understand the street won’t work with me, and if you check, including your own SPD web site, the NIRO idea was mine. Me and all of my partners never missed a back up, would take hot calls if we were close and never, ever, turned off the patrol channel. I will tell you this if I were the big Kahuna there would be a lot of folks back there off their ass, and there would be a lot more accountability. So you got the wrong guy…and I’ve heard that before. As far as credentials go I’ve got a PhD from the U of S. over 40 years of education, from both sides of the fence and you would be surprised how many cops I’ve been involved with defending.
brianrbreen on December 17 at 1:12 p.m.
@Davida
No Goggle, CI. :)
Davida on December 17 at 1:19 p.m.
Whoa Brian…I never said anything about detectives not knowing the streets…I’m a little confused by your comment…was just asking how long you had been on the force….because yoinfu seem to have alot of incite….not sure why you think I was insinuating you didnt know the streets or were a lazy detective???? I agree with you…detective/patrol and all areas in LE have some lazy officers…..no disputing that…I truly was not inferring you did not know the streets or were lazy….
brianrbreen on December 17 at 1:25 p.m.
@Davida
I apologize, thought I was getting the old you Dixs don’t understand how it is out here in the real world thing. :)
You know exactly what I mean :)
Davida on December 17 at 1:29 p.m.
@Brian…I do know what ya mean….hear it all the time….just as I hear because I work day light hours now I don’t do REAL police work anymore…but I really was not eluding to being in the dix office they don’t know the streets anymore…..that is not MY feeling…
brianrbreen on December 17 at 1:33 p.m.
@Davida
See….same song…same tune…different era.
Shelala on December 17 at 1:52 p.m.
It’s too bad that tickets don’t come with a box for a citizen to comment about his contact with the officer issuing the ticket (not o complain about the offense) or someone randomly and routinely polling citizens who are on record as having had contact with an officer. It would develop some interesting stats as to which officers have problems interacting with citizens. Davida, I am not saying that the use of Taser is not justified in some cases at all. What I am trying to point out is that when an officer’s interests and emphasis is on the more violent aspects of police work and gaining physical control instead of other equally important aspects of the job, it should send red flags somewhere that his head is not in the right place. Way back when,during a time female officers were just beginning to be hired, there was much debate about a woman holding their own. It was discovered that female officers in general deployed much better verbal skills and had a keen ability to diffuse situations without violence than their male counterparts. Instead of acknowledging and embracing what could be brought to the table, they tried to train the ability right out of them. Violence is usually met with violence and change is necessary because whatever they are doing isn’t working. I am not the naive citizen without experience you think me to be.
brianrbreen on December 17 at 2:51 p.m.
@Shelala
I’m not sure these youngsters realize that if they don’t come around, negotiate a contract that includes legitimate oversight, and change the culture, it will soon be “Deputy” so and so for some, and several others may be looking for work.
brianrbreen on December 17 at 3:41 p.m.
@Shelala
Don’t know if you caught this but the SR spent some time putting this together. Some interesting stats here. The only thing missing is staffing levels, of sworn, and civilian, by department and by individual unit.
http://data.spokesman.com/annual-crime-reports/?crimetype=total&agency=spokane-police-department
Shelala on December 17 at 5:01 p.m.
So much for meaningful dialog. Between posts here, Davida has had the time to reiterate her undying support for her friend and mentor, KT on the dubious Facebook support page…public posts by Spokane’s finest proclaiming an “unjust” verdict still reign supreme on the site. No one is questioning her right to have a personal opinion regardless of how distasteful I find it - but the line is crossed in the support by a law enforcement officer of a convicted felon on a public site of questionable legality with the added kicker of showing disrespect for the judicial system they’ve been sworn to uphold. The premise of supporting a friend is out the window because there is a myriad of ways to do so that don’t incite public ire. In all fairness, I don’t know if Hallmark has a card “Thinking of You Since your Recent Conviction”…Is it difficult to talk out of both sides of your mouth or does that take training?
Davida on December 17 at 6:46 p.m.
@shelala….well like I said you are entitled to your opinion…I respect that….however I find it quite odd that if you are so offended by the site that you continue to go on it….I have never denied my support for KT, and will continue to support the man I know….so I am sorry you find it distasteful, but it is what it is..So you if it makes you feel better to try and put jabs in your post…continue doing so….however, I will not find it necessary to acknowledge them from this point forward….WE will never see eye to eye in this field, and quite frankly I didn’t ever think it was my job to try to make you “see it MY way”,… apparently you think having an open dialogue means the other party MUST see it your way….so you’re right…there is no open dialogue with someone of that mind set…..So I wish you well in your plight…but I’m not going to continue to bang my head against a wall with people who just want to argue in an nonconstructive, and ineffective way….
Shelala on December 17 at 7:59 p.m.
@Davida
I neither post here nor engage you in any exchange in an attempt to change you opinion of KT. I am simply a citizen of Spokane who is appalled and disgusted by the needless death of Otto Zehm. I am equally appalled and disgusted by the conduct of some of Spokane’s law enforcement personnel’s response and support for the officer(s) that are responsible for his death. Otto could have been any one of us innocently buying a snack at a local convenience store that night. I am one of many citizens who demand a change in SPD to correct the actions and attitudes that contributed to Otto’s demise and other recent questionable incidents involving SPD.’s use of force. It is the community’s collective voice that can bring these changes. That is why I post. I will continue to voice my concerns so that the incident isn’t wept under the rug and continually brought to the forefront until meaningful changes are made and accountability occurs. Your unwavering loyalty to KT is not reflective of the majority of the public who pay your salary. Take a look at your pay stub and I bet KT’s name is not anywhere on it.
nslopeofw on December 19 at 5:13 p.m.
Had Karl “manned-up” and took his punishment, no one else would be in the poop house now. I hope all you Karl supporters realize he could have ended this long ago, and it would not have cost all the public distrust that exists now. Moses and Karl’s mentee McIntyre are now going to pay for their obvious lying. They would never have had to put themselves in that position had Karl just admitted he was wrong. Karl himself would not be going to prison, either.
All you Karl supporters need to realize one thing. Karl is about Karl, and others will burn because of his selfishness. Get off the Karl train. Its headed for the ravine, and anyone ignorant enough to stay on will suffer.
nslopeofw on December 19 at 5:25 p.m.
Davida-
I would be curios to know what you all think is “misinformation” by the media. Most of what they printed was either presented in court, ar part of interviews and such. I admit that we civilians react to what we read, so it would be informative if we knew the wrong stuff presented by the media.