Spokane7
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February 3, 2011 in City
Officer in crash likely not using lights, sirens
A Spokane police officer likely did not have his patrol car’s emergency lights and siren activated when he struck and killed a pedestrian Sunday, investigators said today.
Detectives probing the fatal crash that killed John A. Van Curler, 52, are asking anyone who witnessed the crash Sunday at 10:30 p.m. near North Monroe Street and West Montgomery Avenue to contact police, including the driver of a white vehicle that passed the scene right after the crash.
Officer Gordon Ennis is scheduled to return to patrol. He was interviewed Wednesday and gave a blood sample on Sunday.
Ennis, an eight-year veteran, was responding to a “trouble unknown” call at the time of the collision.
Ennis said the white vehicle slowed down as it approached the crash but accelerated southbound on Monroe and hasn’t been contacted.
“The officer was not making an emergency response, so detectives believe the patrol car would not have had its emergency lights or siren on,” said Sgt. Dave Reagan in a news release.Reagan is the spokesman for the investigation team, comprised of detectives from the Spokane County Sheriff’s Office, Spokane Police Department and Washington State Patrol.
In a telephone interview this afternoon, Reagan refused to say whether detectives asked Ennis about the emergency lights or sirens, or how fast he had been traveling.
A man who owns a bar near the intersection told The Spokesman-Review the crash occurred after the business closed and he did not know if the officer had his lights on or at what speed he was driving. A man working at a nearby gas station also did not witness the crash.
Another vehicle came up behind Ennis’ patrol vehicle, but that driver turned west on Montgomery.
Investigators are urging both drivers — or anyone else who saw anything that night — to call Crime Check at (509) 456-2233.
Investigators only want information about what people might have seen; they don’t seek to “penalize the driver for anything that might have caused them to not stop and assist,” Reagan said.
1992 murder trial begins against sex offender 
Scoutster on February 03 at 1:38 p.m.
Why do they keep sending info out in dribs and drabs on these situations?
If they have to backtrack on the story (let’s say the officer says he WAS with lights on), they lose credibility in their officer involved investigations.
Not that there is much credibility to lose.
TheRoo on February 03 at 1:53 p.m.
The speed of the car and the use of lights/siren are integral to this whole tragedy. Why won’t detectives even say if they’re doing a complete job?
Or do I even have to ask?
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 1:56 p.m.
“they don’t seek to “penalize the driver for anything that might have caused them to not stop and assist.” ” Wouldn’t that be about right for them to punish someone else who saw it and not the guy who did it??? I wonder why they didn’t say that “they WON’T punish.” Doesn’t sound very convincing. Still wonder why the public has no trust in the police?
I thought I remembered witnesses say that Gordo was speeding, so if it wasn’t an emergency call, why was he speeding? Why would he be speeding if his lights and siren weren’t on?
lewis8457 on February 03 at 2:13 p.m.
Yes i am sure they didn’t want to tell the truth witnesses please come forward we promise we wont shoot you.
two witnesses have already stated Gordon did not have his lights or siren on. Heck john could have saw him and thought the cop would stop for him since he was not using lites or siren.
Why was Gordon driving so fast they all drive fast, wait by the YMCA some time on Monroe about 8-9pm end of shift there are a couple guys that run up Monroe off duty at 50+ mph. I know I have followed them many times.
nitro71 on February 03 at 2:26 p.m.
The laws of WA allow police officers to speed. They don’t have to obey the same laws as the rest of us do. Apparently police think they are better drivers and can safely speed. Use their radios. Check their computers. Use a cell phone. But the rest of us are incapable of safely doing the same thing. But wait, maybe they can’t safely speed as shown by this incident. It’s absurd that they can legaly speed without their lights and sirens on. Puts us the public they are supposed to be serving at risk. One person calls the police, they speed trying to get there and another is killed.
de3 on February 03 at 2:27 p.m.
FYI - the two witnesses Lewis mentions were interviewed by KXLY which went out and did actual news gathering. I think the SR’s past budget cuts and layoffs have impacted their ability to do that anymore.
D Statler on February 03 at 2:32 p.m.
Isn’t there a doughnut shop up there ? LOL! seriously,We are lucky we don’t have more tragic accidents like this with the hot persuits thru residential neighborhoods. It is nice to catch a bad guy,but we must measure the value in respect to the risks taken.I keep picturing the parade of police cars behind OJ :^) I am sure that I would have received a failure to yield to a pedestrian citation if it were me that hit the man in the intersection. Give the cop the ticket,settle with the family and put the poor soul to rest.It clearly was an accident.
terrymr on February 03 at 2:38 p.m.
Maybe they didn’t ask him about speed, lights, sirens.
Depends on what kind of interview this is … if he’s required to answer because of his job you can’t use his answers in a criminal action later.
zelda on February 03 at 2:44 p.m.
Lewis has a good point. I’ve seen it happen several times, i.e., a cop driving like a bat out of hell around the intersection of Monroe and Mallon. No lights flashing, no siren. I’ve thought to myself, “Oh, must be the end of his shift.” It’s arrogant and cavalier, not to mention reckless.
TOOBAD2 on February 03 at 2:56 p.m.
the whole deal is give out a little information and see if they will believe what you say. if they take the bait. there’s no more explanation needed. if they believe the lie all the much better.
Kivaari on February 03 at 3:17 p.m.
It dribbles out because the media wont wait for the case to be finished before getting updates. The public wants answers NOW and the media does its best to get what is known out to everyone. Since much of these cases take days to compile, it isn’t all right in front of the reporter a few hours after the incident.
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 3:18 p.m.
Lewis also has a good point in that Van Curler may have assumed the cop would give him the right of way, with all of the press and emphasis patrols on pedestrians in crosswalks.
Scoutster on February 03 at 3:29 p.m.
Kivaari..
sounds like poor old Dave Reagan is just a victim of the mainstream media, huh?
I respectfully suggest it would make it much more credible, and even better TV, if they would wait and have an official news conference when they have finished their work.
Otherwise, it does seem as if they are floating a lot of trial balloons and seeing what will fly. (For the record, I don’t think they are that sophisticated. It’s the perception that matters.)
hawken on February 03 at 3:35 p.m.
Where was the pedestrian when he was fatally struck by the patrol car?
What was his proximity to a cross-walk at his final point of rest?
_________________________________________________
RCW 46.61.520
Vehicular homicide — Penalty.
(1) When the death of any person ensues within three years as a proximate result of injury proximately caused by the driving of any vehicle by any person, the driver is guilty of vehicular homicide if the driver was operating a motor vehicle:
(a) While under the influence of intoxicating liquor or any drug, as defined by RCW 46.61.502; or
(b) In a reckless manner; or
(c) With disregard for the safety of others.
(2) Vehicular homicide is a class A felony punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW, except that, for a conviction under subsection (1)(a) of this section, an additional two years shall be added to the sentence for each prior offense as defined in RCW 46.61.5055.
__________________________________________________
If the man was not crossing the street in a crosswalk, he had to yield right of way to the patrol car.
Otherwise, the officer will have to be shown to have been operating the patrol car in a “reckless manner” or “with disregard for the safety of others.”
RCW 46.61.465
Exceeding speed limit evidence of reckless driving.
The unlawful operation of a vehicle in excess of the maximum lawful speeds provided in this chapter at the point of operation and under the circumstances described shall be prima facie evidence of the operation of a motor vehicle in a reckless manner by the operator thereof.
_____________________________________________
The investigation should involve a highly qualified, independent, “accident reconstruction expert” in an effort to determine speed and to assess other evidence.
Until then, the officer should remain on “administrative duty.”
DHF on February 03 at 3:37 p.m.
They need some type of law if they dont already have that when an Officer exceed’s the posted speed limit then flashing lights and siren should be turned on. That way the public can be made aware that there is an emergency. Otherwise they should drive in a safe fashion.. I have observed behavior like this where a cop will blow by you really exceeding the speed limit with no flashing lights or anything. Maybe that poor chap would be alive today if the lights and siren were on. I think the CHIEF should come out of hiding and give this some serious thought. The Pedestrian’s and public deserve it.
hawken on February 03 at 3:40 p.m.
Followup:
If the investigating team did not do a thorough, on scene investigation, to scale, with plenty of photos, even the best accident reconstruction expert can add nothing more. All of the evidence on the street has long disappeared by now.
Kivaari on February 03 at 3:50 p.m.
Scoutster, That would be ideal, except the public wants it done right NOW. When the police put the case all together and wait several days, the public screams that it is a cover up and they want people to forget about it. Can you imagine waiting the five months it took for the Creach investigation, before saying anything. If this were a plane crash the public knows the investigation can take one or two years. That’s ok, but waiting two days or so on a traffic crash is just too slow. Give them time.
saveyourtatas on February 03 at 3:51 p.m.
In so many ways.
In so many cases.
In so many deaths.
The Spokane Police are failing to protect.
The Spokane Police are succeeding…at killing.
….(and covering up)
This is very troublesome and may require federal intervention.
How much longer will we continue to piss and moan.
We need a leader to take a stand.
Where are the leaders?
Does Spokane have a vacuum of leadership?
The evidence is clear.
The cops kill.
The pols chill.
Kivaari on February 03 at 3:57 p.m.
Hawken, I would bet money that the WSP used the “Total Station” mapping system to accurately record all of the needed data. It is such a normal thing to do at any similar event.
hawken on February 03 at 4:00 p.m.
Thanks, Kiv…. then my point remains, they need to get a highly qualified, independent, accident reconstruction expert involved.
Bob_Knows on February 03 at 4:00 p.m.
In Cairo the police beat a man to death. When people asked for explanations or justice they were beaten and arrested. They people had enough and are demanding change in government. In Spokane the police beat Otto Zehm to death. When people held a demonstration against police violence they were beaten and arrested. The people in Spokane are Shep who sit quietly home while the police kill man after man, week after week. Violence, beatings, and murder goes on and on. Only in Egypt are the people willing to demand our rights as free men.
Kivaari on February 03 at 4:03 p.m.
Bob, Shep is one of the Three Stooges. The people in Egypt are revolting for their rights, not ours.
Thoreau on February 03 at 4:08 p.m.
lewis: “Why was Gordon driving so fast they all drive fast”
“all” means 100%. Still using the logical fallacy of overgeneralization, eh?
hawken on February 03 at 4:24 p.m.
Bob…. We have a legal due process in place that Egypt does not have.
Before we hit the streets, I suggest that we write letters to he Chief, Sheriff and our representatives, as I have done over a year ago.
Also, each police issue must be evaluated on it’s own merit or lack thereof, according to the law.
I am not defending the police. I am defending our rule of law, republican form of government.
I am also not discouraging peaceful demonstration. No doubt, the frustration is high, including mine. Mob psychology can break out very easily.
As high as emotions and tensions are right now, in my opinion, we need to speak loudly to our elected officials first via phone calls and mail.
Kivaari on February 03 at 4:43 p.m.
Hawken, In viewing more of the stills and video you can see the “Total Station” survey markers (targets) for the mapping program. If you watch enough crime shows you can see where very elaborate reconstructions can be made from the mapping and photos taken at the time. It will be easy to determine speed, braking, first impact points and every thing. I will SPECULATE, I don’t think he was going real fast, especially if the victim was in the area of the crosswalk shown in the stills.
There isn’t the mess seen from MOST high speed collisions.
danne on February 03 at 5:13 p.m.
Buckle up Spokane, People have a tipping point. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see what’s coming. When the public demonstration against this behaviour comes and the people and the police come face to face it’ll make a great news story. Keep in mind the motto of the media is”If it bleeds it leads” Look at how the news media has fixated on Egypt.
hawken on February 03 at 5:23 p.m.
Kiv… Last time I was in this business, there was no such thing as “Total Station.” But then we carried S&W .38 cal revolvers too.
Sounds like the “Total Station” saves allot of time taking measurements, photos et al…. is much more thorough and accurate and takes much less time walking around in the middle of the road with a tape measure and clip board.
While technology has improved greatly, the sound basics of a thorough investigation are timeless. Do they also now have computer programs to do the reconstruction analysis?
lewis8457 on February 03 at 5:25 p.m.
Thoreau I see them speeding follow one some time he isn’t doing the 30 MPH speed limit more like 40. I live on Monroe they pass my house all day long. I believe what i see i see them speed.
I love following them
Its called perception
Do you have a comment or just here to kick me because i have a opinion and you don’t??
lewis8457 on February 03 at 5:29 p.m.
what good is all this fancy stuff if the results are always the same it was the victims fault. mark my words this will be Johns fault even though he was in the crosswalk.
hawken on February 03 at 5:33 p.m.
All of this “fancy stuff” helps to establish violations of the law or innocence, or reasonable doubt concerning those accused or suspected. If you had been the driver, I’m sure that you would greatly appreciate all of this “fancy stuff.” If it proved your innocence.
saveyourtatas on February 03 at 5:35 p.m.
A tipping point must be near.
Was FORZA a tipping point reaction? hmmmmm
When will police be honest and not CYA experts ?
*Why are no leaders coming forward*? (city council/CCs)
hawken on February 03 at 5:39 p.m.
Lewis:
If the man was in a crosswalk, marked or unmarked, the officer is in deep trouble regardless of what you assert out of legitimate frustration. Ponder this:
WAC 132E-16-040
No agency filings affecting this section since 2003
Pedestrians — Right of way.
(1) Stopping for pedestrian. The operator of an approaching vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian to cross the roadway within a crosswalk unmarked or marked when the pedestrian is upon or within one lane of the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning.
(2) Pedestrian sudden movements. No pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to stop.
(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply under the conditions stated in subsection (6) of this section.
(4) Overtaking vehicles stopped for pedestrian. Whenever any vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk or at any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection to permit a pedestrian to cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass such stopped vehicle.
(5) Yield right of way. Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than in a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right of way to all vehicles upon the roadway.
(6) Curb ramps. Where curb ramps exist at or adjacent to intersections or at marked crosswalks in other locations, disabled persons may enter the roadway from the curb ramps and cross the roadway within or as closely as practicable to the crosswalk. All other pedestrian rights and duties as defined elsewhere in this code remain applicable.
Kivaari on February 03 at 5:45 p.m.
Hawken, The new gear is superior to anything we used in the past. It is very expensive, that is why only a few of the systems are in the state. WSP aides police all over the state, not only on traffic, but homicides including the recent police involved shootings in Spokane area. Tremendous help to both a plaintiff and defense.
PlanB on February 03 at 5:50 p.m.
It makes no difference to me if the victim was in a crosswalk, or if the officer had lights and sirens on with Ethel Merman tied to the hood singing Hello Dolly. It was nighttime, and he was driving too fast to be safe and without regard for the safety of others. It happens all the time but this time someone was killed. Usually it’s just another totaled police car and someone gets ticketed. It’s hard to blame the officer because this is the culture of ignorance and infallibility he has been living in.
lowtechmaster on February 03 at 5:52 p.m.
Yet another case NOT INVESTIGATED BY AN INDEPENDENT REVIEW BOARD!!! Whatever, it will be “Tuckered away” as have all others! Why is law enforcement so opposed to an independent, representative review board???? I’ve never seen any reasonable response to that question! Hawken, what do you say???
hawken on February 03 at 6:01 p.m.
lowtechmaster
As you probably know, I am a staunch conservative. I did not vote for Tucker for this primary reason: He does not get out in front of a major incident and never has in my experience. He stays under his desk until he thinks it’s safe to come out.
Concerning “high profile” cases, he should be out in front of the case keeping the public informed as much as possible without compromising an on-going investigation. To do so, would stop much of the rumor and false speculation that we see repeatedly on this blog.
Again, I am not defending the police. I am defending our republican form of government and rule of law.
lowtechmaster on February 03 at 6:06 p.m.
Hawken,
We agree on Tucker! But you did not respond to my much more important point! Why the stiff resistance to any kind of independent review board???
hawken on February 03 at 6:10 p.m.
Lowtech…. I think I missed part of your question.
Why is law enforcement so opposed to an independent, representative review board????
Answer:
1- Law Enforcement in general is opposed to any civilian getting involved with their internal affairs. Spokane is not unusual in this sense.
2- There is a “systemic” attitude among law enforcement agencies that can be summarized with these two points:
A- A “them against us” mentality.
B- Civilians are not qualified to judge anything done by law enforcement. The thinking is, the public has no clue concerning the life and death situations that must be made by law enforcement offers on a regular basis. And, the public has no qualifications to questions such situations that often require a split second decision.
I reject both. Civilian juries make such judgments on a daily basis concerning evidence, elements of a crime and reasonable doubt.
Having said all of the above. Whether or not a Law Enforcement agency is subject to such citizen review should be determined by the public based upon an agency by agency basis. Civilian review is not without problems of its own. In fact, an over zealous citizen review can hinder effective law enforcement. Once size does not fit all.
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 6:16 p.m.
Holy crap!!!!! He actually answered the question, and he was honest, detailed, and complete about it too!!! Hawken used to be a cop? How odd….. Maybe they aren’t all bad. I’m so confused!
Kivaari on February 03 at 6:20 p.m.
Lowtechmaster, If the family wants to hire a private investigator they can. The city will make the report public. It’s not done in secret because the public has a hand in the game. Your question to Hawken about a Civilian Review Board is usually opposed because they are simply political in nature and have no power. If the public and the victim of perceived police abuse use the existing system it will bring justice. If you look at the boards where they are used they are jokes. If you put cops on a board, they would be harder on the “offender” if there were a violation of law and SOP. If it is a law violation the courts get involved. Sometimes even a “citizens review board” (like a jury), let’s say as in the Pete case, found in favor of Olson. That citizens review board was made up of non-political appointees. Could you trust an appointed political board? In seeing them around the country, I wouldn’t. I say if a case is questionable, use the courts so a new jury gets to see the evidence of alleged wrong doing.
lowtechmaster on February 03 at 6:23 p.m.
Hawken,
Thank you for your detailed response. I agree with you!!
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 6:25 p.m.
Kalimaari, that’s the way I’m used to cops answering those kind of questions…. Lies and deception. Thanks for restoring my faith.
riverrat49 on February 03 at 6:28 p.m.
OK Folks, Just Cuz your driving an emergency Vehicle Don’t Give you the right to Speed thru an intersection
RCW 46.61.264
Pedestrians yield to emergency vehicles.
(1) Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency vehicle making use of an audible signal meeting the requirements of RCW 46.37.380 subsection (4) and visual signals meeting the requirements of RCW 46.37.190, or of a police vehicle meeting the requirements of RCW 46.61.035 subsection (3) every pedestrian shall yield the right-of-way to the authorized emergency vehicle.
No Lights No Siren Activated on the SPD Vehicle
Here’s the Officer’s Failure:
(2) This section shall not relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons using the highway nor from the duty to exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian.
This says it All, Not Even SPD is Immune from this responsibility. And Yes it is a tragedy that could have been avoided.
lowtechmaster on February 03 at 6:32 p.m.
I did not say a “civilian review board.” I am in favor of a “representative review board,” including not only civilians, but also law enforcement folks, and others (e.g., clergy).
lowtechmaster on February 03 at 6:34 p.m.
I did not say a “civilian review board.” I said an “independent review board.” I am in favor of a “representative review board,” including not only civilians, but also law enforcement folks, and others (e.g., clergy).
hawken on February 03 at 6:35 p.m.
Cheezwhiz and Lowtech:
You should read
Kivaari on February 03 at 6:20 p.m.
He points out the weakness of a one size fits all citizen review which I mentioned, but did not elaborate.
@ Cheezewiz: I always answer legitimate questions. Otherwise, I try to ignore them as much as my competitive nature will allow me to do so. Legitimate questions are much different than innuendo or baiting.
lowtechmaster on February 03 at 6:38 p.m.
hawken,
Why not some sort of review board such as I suggested??
hawken on February 03 at 6:46 p.m.
As I have said on other strings. I think the review board is premature. We have an ombudsman in place, impotent for now to be sure. His position and authority needs to be strengthened so that the SPD must include him in the process as needed determined by the ombudsman and the police collectively.
Right now, the public has the same “them against us” mentality as do many police agencies. The SPD needs to come along and accept the ombudsman position and work in cooperation.
If this fails, we can always expand the process to a citizens review with the members you list. For now, it is my opinion that the ombudsman position is the most efficient and least costly way to proceed, at this time. Don’t get me wrong. I do not favor a citizens review simply because it is a citizen’s review.
I do favor more accountability and transparency relating to the internal affairs of the SPD.
riverrat49 on February 03 at 6:47 p.m.
Yes Being in Law Enforcement is a Tough Job, It is now up to the system to Do the job they were paid for, I hope that SPD will keep the Officer from operating a vehicle till the case is finalized by the prosecutors office. And Why is the Spokesman not Asking these Questions?
RCW 46.61.035
Authorized emergency vehicles.
(1) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle, when responding to an emergency call or when in the pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law or when responding to but not upon returning from a fire alarm, may exercise the privileges set forth in this section, but subject to the conditions herein stated.
(2) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle may:
(a) Park or stand, irrespective of the provisions of this chapter;
(b) Proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign, but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation;
(c) Exceed the maximum speed limits so long as he or she does not endanger life or property.
(d) Disregard regulations governing direction of movement or turning in specified directions.
(4) The foregoing provisions shall not relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons, nor shall such provisions protect the driver from the consequences of his or her reckless disregard for the safety of others.
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 6:55 p.m.
Hawken, I applaud you for giving an honest, complete, and detailed answer to the question. Not used to that from cops. By chance, do you know Burr? I have talked to him about some of my concerns and he is also honest. I have also talked to Lee B, and he is also honest.
hawken on February 03 at 7:02 p.m.
Cheezwhiz
I don’t know either. Thank you for the compliment.
While I have a great deal of law enforcement experience in every area, including patrol, detective, supervision, admin and command, I am not currently a police officer. I left that business long ago to pursue opportunities in the private sector which has served my family and me well.
Kivaari on February 03 at 7:02 p.m.
Hawken, I found out that if you give an honest answer the people like Lewis and Cheezwiz will call you names anyway. It is fun to actually deal with people having serious questions. When I cite the law, SOP, standard practices and common sense I get ripped. If we suggest the existing system can deal with the issues, I at least get called a liar. If I come across as a know-it-all, well on some subjects I really do have a good education. Traffic safety has been a passion for over 40 years. I know guns as well. I made a living in the industry as a dealer, writer, armorer, consultant and more. I was used in a suit against the FBI, and we won. I never claim to be an expert in anything, but I sure know more then Cheezhead, Lewis, Ken and Bob.
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 7:05 p.m.
Riverrat, your point is valid and clear, but judging from the past, this man won’t be charged with anything. It’s more likely that the corpse will charged with crossing against the light and being drunk in public. Maybe even littering. I have no faith in the system any longer.
maria on February 03 at 7:11 p.m.
Kivaari on February 03 at 7:02 p.m.
“Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah”
In other words… you sound like a broken record. Sometimes less is more.
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 7:12 p.m.
Kalimaari, I’m sure you do know way more about law enforcement than I ever will care to know, and you still won’t be truthful. I never questioned your knowledge. Just your honesty. Now…. Did I call Hawken names when he was truthful? Nope. I gave him high praise for it. You should try it! Just be honest for once, and I may give you kudos too. You are still “trained” to be the liar you are. Try to deprogram yourself. You can do it! Mind over matter.
hawken on February 03 at 7:13 p.m.
Kiv…. I understand. How well I know. You’ve probably seen the frequency of the name-calling that is directed at me,,,, regularly.
Liar seems to be the favorite of those who don’t like what I say when I disagree with them.
misjustice on February 03 at 7:40 p.m.
****flashing lights and siren should be turned on.****
There are cases where the sirens should not be turned on due to the element of surprise. Why would an officer turn on sirens if a bank robbery was taking place? Would you want to alert the criminals that the police are on their way? Rape taking place & you want to let the perp know the police are near? Time to leave now before they get here?
Also, the higher rate of speed the more damage done to a vehicle, even if a pedestrian is the one to intersect with the car. From the damage I saw on the car there was very little. Which means the officer was not going that fast at impact.
maria on February 03 at 7:40 p.m.
Who called you names, hawken? When?
maria on February 03 at 7:45 p.m.
I can understand the cops not using the sirens in certain instances, but never not using the lights AT NIGHT.
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 7:45 p.m.
Am I the only one who thinks Gramma might live in the same body as Kalimaari? Split personality thing, maybe?
Kivaari on February 03 at 8:05 p.m.
Maria, Lights will often be NOT used when the officer wants to get close to a scene. An alarm call can stimulate the officers to turn off all gear several blocks away in an urban setting. Sometimes miles in a rural setting. Run swift, run silent. Glide up quietly and get the burglar inside the business or home. Don’t alert any lookouts. Much like at the Groom shooting outside the tavern. The police came in quiet because they did not know where the gunman was. If they pulled into the parking lot they could have been ambushed. They shut down blocks away, park a block or so away and walk into the scene. The officers at that shooting did it in a textbook manner. One of the biggest reasons to use all the gear is to break up a fight where there is no REPORTED gunman. Sometimes on a call like this one, the primary officer gets there with all the gear going. And back up rolls in quiet. OR even the primary unit will shut down all gear including headlights and approach silently. The unknown problem calls with unknown weapons present create situations that get different responses.
Kivaari on February 03 at 8:13 p.m.
Cheezhead, What lies? Every Time I ask for you to point them out, I never get a response, except calling me a liar. I haven’t even reached any conclusion in this case. I can just make educated guesses based on what’s shown and shared. It is funny that I never get a straight response about my errors. BSZ reminded me of a labor law issue, but I couldn’t have cared any less. It had no relevance to my concerns. If the officer is found to be in error then the system will handle it.
It looks like his boss found his actions to be acceptable. Otherwise I don’t think he would be cleared to return to duty. The victims family seems to be very understanding and compassionate. My hat’s off to them.
maria on February 03 at 8:40 p.m.
Hey Kivaari, ever since I got raped by a cop in uniform, I don’t trust a word they say. Oh, I must have been asking for it, right?
SpokyDaBear on February 03 at 8:43 p.m.
Cheez. You know kivaari is German for rifle.
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 8:43 p.m.
Kalimaari, take out the first two sentences and the last sentence in your 6:20 pm post, and everything else is lies. Here it is:
It’s not done in secret because the public has a hand in the game. Your question to Hawken about a Civilian Review Board is usually opposed because they are simply political in nature and have no power. If the public and the victim of perceived police abuse use the existing system it will bring justice. If you look at the boards where they are used they are jokes. If you put cops on a board, they would be harder on the “offender” if there were a violation of law and SOP. If it is a law violation the courts get involved. Sometimes even a “citizens review board” (like a jury), let’s say as in the Pete case, found in favor of Olson. That citizens review board was made up of non-political appointees. Could you trust an appointed political board? In seeing them around the country, I wouldn’t.
It would take too long to go over all of the lies. There are way too many of them. I don’t have the time.
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 8:51 p.m.
Kalimaari, I forgot to say that my favorite lie in that post was this one: “If you put cops on a board, they would be harder on the “offender” if there were a violation of law and SOP.” That one is almost funny! You’re such a kidder!
Kivaari on February 03 at 8:55 p.m.
Cheezhead, Well I can’t make you smart. God short changed you.
maria on February 03 at 9:08 p.m.
BTW, Kivaari, I was a child at the time of my rape over 30 years ago. It was never made public to anyone before tonight, so DO NOT CALL ME A LIAR. Thank you.
Kivaari on February 03 at 9:14 p.m.
Spokey, Gewehr is German for rifle. Pronounce “ge-vair”.
Karabiner is German for Carbine. Gew 98 = rifle 1898.
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 9:16 p.m.
Kalimaari is German for squid
Kivaari on February 03 at 9:20 p.m.
I was a squid in the Navy and a grunt-ground pounder in the Army. And this has what to do with a traffic collision?
maria on February 03 at 9:36 p.m.
Cheez, I wish you had been at the club luncheon today with Ms. J and the gang. You would not believe who we got for a keynote speaker! We also enjoyed “Squids on a Stick” with a garlicky Aoli dip. “Aoli” is his real name! DrSquawken arrived late but at least he was there for the dessert. All in all, it was our most produktiv meeting to date. Next time we hope to see you there. : )
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 9:41 p.m.
Hey Maria, what club is it?
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 9:43 p.m.
Squid on a stick? Hehehe
maria on February 03 at 9:54 p.m.
Cheez, we worship t-shirts printed with images of hawks, wolves and beautiful Native American women and warriors in fluffy clouds. Mostly, we prefer airbrush on a black background. Long-sleeved for winter meetings and biker-cut for the other season.
hilariousisback on February 03 at 9:57 p.m.
What an enlightening discussion. You wonderful citizens sure are bringing some insight into this issue.
lewis8457 on February 03 at 10:18 p.m.
Kivaari when have i lied? i am still waiting for that URL you have to prove Creach and Hrizel spoke 8-9 words before Hirzel killed him.
how long have i been asking for that? 6-8 weeks?
You tell so many lies you have to delete half your posts at KXLY. and here well you just make your self look silly. Yes thank you Hawken for treating us with decency, It is refreshing to say the least.
Bullshapitsca on February 03 at 10:28 p.m.
This is the same type of discussion one would find over on Craigslist rants and raves. This is what happens when 5 or so from the blue hair brigade of 9 year old school children have no playground monitor. Do you people hear yourself? What a complete waste of time.
hilariousisback on February 03 at 10:34 p.m.
Preach it, bullshapitsca. I often wonder what everyone here did before they had newspaper websites to comment on. Were they once good people?
Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 11:49 p.m.
Bullshapitsca + hilariousisback, you must be the guys who are too lazy or not smart enough to play in the game, but are the first ones to criticize the players when the game is over? Sorry you weren’t entertained, but I was. It’s more fun to play. Go team!
greenlibertarian on February 04 at 12:12 a.m.
“Cheezwhiz on February 03 at 6:16 p.m.
Holy crap!!!!! He actually answered the question, and he was honest, detailed, and complete about it too!!! Hawken used to be a cop? How odd….. Maybe they aren’t all bad. I’m so confused!”
“I’m so confused!”” That’s for sure.
Cheezwhiz on February 04 at 12:24 a.m.
Awww ya got me! Owwww ohhhhhhh I’m comin for ya Elizabeth!
I see a bright light….. go to the light….
Bullshapitsca on February 04 at 12:30 a.m.
MOMMY!!! Lewis is hoggin’ all the cheezwiz an’ kivaari is pickin’ his nose and givin’ all the big pieces to Maria…. Not a game I wish to play.
This is a discussion/comment board, not a game board, (smart enough???)
Cheezwhiz on February 04 at 12:32 a.m.
There ya go! Go team!
You really didn’t say anything that had to with the topic, but I see improvement!
Bullshapitsca on February 04 at 12:49 a.m.
Cheezwhiz,
Thanks for a good laugh, I needed that. Don’t run with scissors and look both ways when crossing the street, the SPD might be coming! Good night!
Cheezwhiz on February 04 at 12:58 a.m.
Good advice. That’s why they will only let me have plastic scissors with rounded ends. Nighty night!
Cheezwhiz on February 04 at 9:13 a.m.
Lewis, Hilarious refers to “us” as citizens, since he is above being a citizen. “You wonderful citizens sure are bringing some insight into this issue.”
He, or it, then says “Were they once good people?”, which shows a cop attitude that everyone is bad, especially the ones who speak out against the police, when they are immune to any laws that they punish “you citizens” for.
Hilarious is the cop! Did I win?