Spokane7
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February 13, 2011 in City
Verner urges council to reject library-only tax
A proposal to ask voters for a library tax appears unlikely to make the ballot after Mayor Mary Verner and her staff urged council members last week to consider a broader property tax that could also boost the police and fire budgets.
“We don’t want to be faced with potential closures of branches again next year,” Verner told the City Council. “But we also don’t want to be faced with additional layoffs.”
Verner and other administrators said they were crafting budget details that would be presented to the council in April – in time for the council to consider asking voters for a property tax increase (called a levy lid lift) on the August ballot. They said they also were working with a citizens committee that will examine tax increase ideas.
The position signals a shift for Verner, who has relied on budget cuts, employee concessions, a utility tax boost, layoffs and business license fee increases to balance the last three budgets.
Administration officials have been hesitant to estimate the budget shortfall in 2012 but say it once again will be in the millions of dollars. The budget could be particularly tough because the city has nearly emptied its rainy-day fund.
“We’ve cut every one of those priorities down to the point that I think it would be irresponsible of us not to say to our citizens, ‘It’s up to you, voters. We’re going to maintain at least this reduced service level or not and if you don’t want to give us any more revenue then we’ll be prepared to cut the services even more drastically than we have,’ ” Verner said.
On Monday, the City Council will decide if it will place a library property tax on the April ballot that would raise about $2.3 million and cost the owner of a $100,000 property $15 a year. Money raised would allow all six branches to be open full-time hours for the first time in more than a decade.
Councilman Richard Rush argues that voters don’t appear to be in the mood for a broad-based tax, but that given outcry last year about possible branch closure, library services appear popular and specific enough to gain public support. Rush said a levy lid lift specifically for libraries is the same strategy used by many library districts across the state, including Spokane County’s.
“I’m struggling to see how we’re ever going to get a general levy lid lift passed,” Rush said. “It seems like a counterproposal would be to take things one at a time.”
But Councilman Steve Corker said that since the city’s No. 1 priority is public safety, it doesn’t make sense to ask only for a tax for libraries.
“We’re talking about adding a bedroom or fixing the swimming pool or putting a roof on the garage, and the roof on our house is falling apart, the heating system has gone out and we can’t even guarantee that we’re going to have water coming into the house,” Corker said. “And I’m sitting there saying, ‘I’m going to get a subscription to a book club when I can’t even feed my family?’ ”
Councilman Jon Snyder noted that within the past two years the city has asked voters for three public safety taxes, and voters rejected two of them. It’s been about two decades since the council has asked voters for a library tax.
“Just because we look at a library vote doesn’t mean that all of a sudden we’ve flipped the priorities of government on its head,” Snyder said.
Administrators worry that public safety unions, which were the only of the city’s large bargaining groups that accepted concessions for the 2011 budget, would be angered by a library-only vote.
“Their response is going to be that ‘We’ve given for two years and you’ve told us that we’re the No. 1 priority and now you’re adding revenue for one area, so don’t ask us to take a small contract or do concessions for the rest of it. That’s your problem,’ ” City Budget Director Tim Dunivant predicted. “Those may not be their exact words, but that’s going to be the gist of it.”
Officials also say that without the ability to offer raises it is difficult to win non-monetary concessions from unions – like stronger police oversight.
Council members debated whether a broad-based tax should pay simply to maintain current service or should include improvements, such as the restoration of six-day-a-week, full-time library service at all branches.
Spokane voters last approved a levy lid lift under Mayor Jim West. The tax was sold as temporary, and Mayor Dennis Hession decided not to push for a new vote once it expired.
Verner said that if a library vote is successful, it would be difficult for the council to trim funding for libraries if budget cuts are necessary. That would mean deeper cuts to police and fire, she said. Rush responded that it’s counterintuitive that solving the library’s financial gap necessarily makes the police and fire budgets more challenging than they otherwise would be.
City Council President Joe Shogan said that if the council later decides more taxes are needed to prevent police and fire cuts, the chances of a public safety tax on a ballot later this year would be hurt by a library-only vote in April.
“That kind of poisons any other thing except maybe canonization of Mother Teresa on the ballot, and I’m not sure even that would get passed,” Shogan said.
MAC faces angry crowd 
ChefGus/ John Olsen on February 13 at 6:39 a.m.
I was and am an advocate for “adequate library services”… and not necessarily for “full operating hours” at all branches. It likely will inconvenience some to not have all branches open full hours, and libraries are not a ” Book Club” or luxury…. but it seems there should continue a belt tightening at all levels of government and public service until we can fully fund and support the top three priorities in Maselow’s (sp) Hierarchy of Needs… Food , safety and Shelter for all people get my vote, not day long access to the libraries of our basiin. John
johnclarke on February 13 at 7:19 a.m.
“Mayor Mary Verner and her staff urged council members last week to consider a broader property tax that could also boost the police and fire budgets”
Yes, we really need to boost the police and fire budgets, don’t we? Our streets are literally falling to pieces, but apparently that is not a priority.
lewis8457 on February 13 at 8:01 a.m.
the city’s No. 1 priority is public safety,
I needed a laugh to start my day. They speak of public safety as our police go unhinged with numerous law violations with no end in site.
Now they think we need to boost their budgets while our streets crumble to pieces.
Is anyone in the council aware of the current issues with the SPD and SFD, and more importantly do they care?
westerly on February 13 at 8:24 a.m.
“boost the police and fire budgets” which means fire and police unions are demanding ever more on top of their average $60,000 to $130,000 salaries. Its pay pack time folks to the unions who gave up some pennies..Verner knows next union contracts will kill the budget again..so get them property tax levels up to further enrich their super high wages.And the poor citizens ,all they want is more safety, the heck with roads, potholes etc.
eagleproducer on February 13 at 8:25 a.m.
Raise taxes. Raise taxes. Raise taxes.
Taxes are the lowest they’ve been in over sixty years. People talk like they are “being taxed to death” when in reality, they are demonstrating a level of selfishness that would make their ancestors cringe with shame.
I hope people are beginning to realize, you can’t have it both ways. You either have a modern state with tax rates that are reflective of that goal or you have a banana republic like we’ve become.
The price to fix most of Spokane’s budgetary woes would be about the cost of a cup of coffee per week, per citizen. I guess it’s just easier to blame everyone but the man in the mirror. Most of the people I see and interact with daily can afford that level of sacrifice.
We are in two wars right now and not one politician has called for national sacrifice. Not one leader.
Shame on all of us.
SpokyDaBear on February 13 at 8:50 a.m.
Spoketucky… if they raise the property taxes, landlords will have no choice but to raise the rent on thousands of tenants.
mikeln on February 13 at 8:51 a.m.
What’s wrong with unions asking for living wage jobs? The big problem is getting other employers to pay these wages. It seems with all the cheap crap coming in from china they could afford to pay a little more. When people make more they are willing to pay more to keep the infrustructure from collapsing, plain and simple. Wal-mart pays just enough so their employees can collect health benifits from the state, talk about socialism being allright for wealthy buisness to use to increase their botton line, while they bitch about it being the end all of america. And what’s with the roads in spokane? I would like to come to spokane and shop but I don’t have the extra money to repair my car after driving on those potholes. I live a mile up a county road that is in better condition then any of the so called roads in spokane.
SpokaneLiberal on February 13 at 9:00 a.m.
Myth SpokyDaBear - the myth of the cost pass along.
The cost of goods like housing is not derived by the inputs (like taxes) but by the price the market will bear. If landlords could get an extra 15$ a month or an extra $100 a month they would regardless of taxes. If they aren’t doing that already then the market is distorted and efficiency and allocation within the market are distorted. This will reduce the money a landlord would make in on their rental - which is arguably not a positive thing - but it won’t raise rents.
DickAdams on February 13 at 9:15 a.m.
If the examples expressed by both the city council and mayor aren`t enough to point out dumb ideas nothing will. My real estate tax, the city portion, increased even though my assessed value decreased. Its time the city of Spokane recognizes the voters have had it with the reckless spending habits and lack of leadership. CITY HALL, wake up. NO NEW TAXES. Act like both the private sector and households do to live within their means. Mayor Verner has departments that can be abolished which are not essential. Stop the damn waste. And for gosh sakes, stop the junkets.
misjustice on February 13 at 9:17 a.m.
I agree with SpokaneLiberal: There is a glut of rental housing in our current market, and landlords know it. I frequently read ads offering “move-in” specials such as one month free rent because when units are vacant, landlords make nothing; and in the winter when they must keep the heat on to protect the property, they pour revenue into vacant units. No matter how much money landlords would like to make, if they attempt to charge more than what the market will bear they risk high vacancy rates coupled with high costs to keep the unoccupied, over priced units heated.
I disagree with the Mayor’s attempt to broaden the scope of tax increases; especially as a give back to SPD and SFD. Targeted, limited requests for tax increases (such as funding requests for libraries) are more likely to pass than are overly broad, vague requests.
Coffee on February 13 at 9:37 a.m.
The top employer’s in the Spokane area:
* Fairchild Air Force Base
* Sacred Heart Medical Center
* U.S. Federal Government
* Spokane School District 81
* State of Washington
* Signature Genomic Laboratories
* Agilent
* Cisco
* General Dynamics
* Telect
Lets vote in a government worker occupation tax of 3 percent of their gross pay since they have a better retirement and generally better pay. We can make the arm service members exempt.
Details about Spokane, Washington: Estimated median household income in 2007: $39,000
Just close branch libraries and deliver library services by the Internet.
Bad roads cost more damage and loss of life than policemen save so layoff two police and hire 4 road service personal.
Use more volunteer firemen and policemen.
Sub out police and fire departments
Problems solved.
Dazzeetrader11 on February 13 at 10:24 a.m.
Fire Verner. She’s costed you millions. She’ll cost more as she rewards the unions. She needs their money and support to be re-elected.
Libraries are just an excuse to smuggle more money to the unions who are killing the budget already.
She claimed a victory a few months ago. Didn’t any of you wonder why the unions bosses were so quiet?? Because she promised them more money later……….Obama anyone? And she wants to smuggle the cost in by hiding behind the children ( ie libraries will suffer…oh wahhhhh…….).as most liberals do.
Spokane is going broke. Cops are a disaster ( have you forgotten already?)……….and some of you want more oney to go to them when they’re overpaid pensions pigs already?
Cut taxes! Grow brains SPokane. It’s just another swindle so you can pay for Verner’s bribes on her road to re-election.
And so, again I must ask: What has she done in over 3 years in office? Vote her out!
misjustice on February 13 at 10:45 a.m.
Daisy Minken for mayor! Run, Daisy, run!
; )
Dazzeetrader11 on February 13 at 10:54 a.m.
k
misjustice on February 13 at 11:07 a.m.
I’m serious Daisy.
: )
You’ve got a lot of experience and much to offer to your beloved Spokane…
Albert on February 13 at 11:15 a.m.
Daisy I agree with Ms.J. I would not only support your campaign financially, but would add “door to door” efforts in my neighborhood…serious.
We need Steve Eugster back as President of the City Council…not kidding. No “biz as usual” and get rid of the special interest unions.
Let’s fill the political pot holes, and sweep the city council clean of every current member, close up the SPD and let Ozzie take over. Get rid of the corruption and stop this nonsense of more taxes/levies for these over paid storm troopers. Fire department is fine like it is.
Dazzeetrader11 on February 13 at 11:18 a.m.
Me too J. …exploring it. It could happen. I always have thought that if one wants things changed for the better, nobody else will do it. I might be a bit too conservative. We’ll see…..there are some good people looking at this. One thing is clear…Spokane won’t grow with this mayor. Falling backward by raising taxes is exactly the worng this to do. We need an expansive new program.
Auko on February 13 at 11:22 a.m.
Why does it seem that the “powers that be” in this town are under the assumption that the property owners are nothing but their own personal ATM machines? I am assuming that the majority of residential property owners found the same thing in their recent property tax notices that I did…the value of my home went down but the taxes went up. Any decrease in the value is offset by the increase in the levy rates. Any time this city needs money…taxing the residents is always tops on their list. Spending less must be a concept unfamiliar to them.
Dazzeetrader11 on February 13 at 11:57 a.m.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014188778_propertytax11m.html
I’m sure Verner’s taking her que from this article.
Nicks is recorded last week saying Verner’s agreement with this police is for one year only. What verner’s new proposal is aimed at is given the police more money if they’ll support her in money and campaigning support. She claimed a victory for the people a few weeks ago….when there was none. None!…..just chicanery.
Now, with this announcement come her real agenda. She just kept it hidden for a while. Libraries need to be open. Education is the future…..but not at the expense of ruining a City with more taxes.
Get the unions under control should be job one. There is soooo much waste at City Hall but she’ll continue to favor her friends..it’s an exchange.and Spokane gets to pay for it. YUK!
All things are possible….we must run a good city. Fair to all but solvency iskey. Sell her real estate and her $13 million shortfall dries up. As Auko points out, she’s using Spokane as her ATM.This has to stop and stop NOW! Write or email your council members. Let them know your thoughts.
woamike on February 13 at 11:58 a.m.
Spoketucky,
Just got my new property tax bill last week - $7,968.28 - up over $700 from last year. That’s right - over $660 a month for the priviledge of living in my own house on my own property. I don’t mind paying my fair share in taxes for the legitimate functions of government, but this is ridiculous.
You think I’m not taxed enough? Just how much should I be paying according to you?
While we’re on the subject, how much do you pay in property taxes?
Three simple questions. Please answer them.
misjustice on February 13 at 12:14 p.m.
Daisy, while you are a conservative, I would argue that you are not “too” conservative to launch and run a successful campaign for mayor of Spokane. You have maintained your ties to the community. Additionally, I have noticed on many threads that you do have compassion for people in unfortunate circumstances and that you have some common sense ideas on fiscal matters.
Albert for campaign manager!
; )
Minken 4 Mayor! (Has a nice ring to it.)
; )
oneanddone on February 13 at 12:53 p.m.
Anyone paying nearly $8k/yr in property tax is either living in a McMansion, owns a number of rental properties, or runs another business. In any case, it’s you people who can afford to pay for the privilege of living in this country. Far too many small business owners think it’s their right to pay minimum wage to their employees but minimal taxes to the gov’t, all because of the grand benefit of providing a few slave wage jobs. Businesses have freedom and security in this country and should be paying for their opportunity. If you don’t like it, move to Iran. You’ll love it there.
woamike on February 13 at 1:17 p.m.
To oneanddone,
I own no rental properties, don’t have a business and haven’t inherited any wealth. I am not “rich” unless you consider a salary of less than 100K “rich.”
Yes, I live in a nice house, a very nice house which my wife and I sacrificed for over 26 years to be able to purchase. During that time (and even now), we didn’t spend much money on vacations, eating out, cars, cable, movies, and a host of other things. Didn’t buy any boats, RVs, snowmobiles or any other “toys.” Additionally, we spent no money on drinking, smoking, drugs, lottery tickets or other forms of gambling. Instead, we chose to work our tails off and live well below our means so we might live in a well earned degree of comfort as we got older.
Our reward for working hard, sacrificing and purchasing our dream home? To get soaked in property taxes and chastised by ignorant, arrogant, jealous persons such as yourself. Go pound sand. And keep your money grubbing hands off our wallets.
Squid on February 13 at 1:56 p.m.
Why is it that so many people are so willing to throw their money into a pit that will never be full? Maybe because they don’t have to pay that tax? Most Democrats prefer that someone else pay their tax for them.
Your rent will go up. If there is more overhead, then prices go up. It’s not supply and demand, it’s cost of doing business. People have mortgages. Some have several.
Businesses are struggling and shutting down every day because they aren’t making a profit. Taxed out of business. The B+O tax is huge. The property tax is about 1.1%. That means in 90 years, you paid for your property twice, plus the interest. If it gets to 2%, you will have paid for your property twice in 50 years. Real estate attorneys are reaping the profits of foreclosures. Bankruptcy attorneys are full speed ahead.
The funny thing is that no one realizes that no government will ever have enough of your money. Taxes are based primarily on percentages, so their income goes up with the economy and cost of living. When the economy goes down, they suffer, just like the rest of us. They should run more efficiently, like the rest of us. When I am broke, I sell something or find a way to cut costs. I can’t ask for a raise when my company is barely making it.
I think this sentence says it best: “Verner and other administrators said they were crafting budget details.” Crafting is a good word for it. Sounds sneaky.
Teseract on February 13 at 2:06 p.m.
Just a couple interesting items that may or may not be related, you decide:
Spokane District 81 - 29% dropout rate
Mead School District - 8% dropout rate
Spokane City Library System - Most branches open 22 hours/week, 5 days a week.
Spokane County Library System - Most branches open 7 days a week, 64 hours a week.
jddavis on February 13 at 2:50 p.m.
I agree with you oneanddone; entry-level, no experience required, no education required jobs should pay at least $15 per hour.
All of those evil business owners should be held accountable for hiring people with limited skillsets and paying them minimum wage!
Seriously, if someone wants to get a good job with good pay and benefits, they need to get an education or skill that is valuable to employers. If someone isn’t willing to make the effort and sacrafice to gain education or skills, then unfortunately they are likely stuck in entry-level positions. A no-brainer!
DickAdams on February 13 at 3:05 p.m.
oneanddone: You`ve shown your moronic logic. I`m guessing you are in the 47% of Americans who do not pay federal income tax. I have too pay. My retirement income as a retired person is not that great. There comes a point when real estate taxes are stretching my budget where its a struggle to continue paying increases. Its getting old to use savings. The well is steadily going dry. How far do you think the rubber band stretches? If you had worked two jobs for years and years you may have had what its obvious you envy.
And a footnote to spoketucky: If you think the city of Spokane taxes are the lowest in 60 years, where in the heck in this country does anyone pay a 25% city utility tax other than Spokane? If you can name one, I`d like to know where the city is, please.
Shadedmuse on February 13 at 3:59 p.m.
We DO NOT NEED TO SPEND NO MORE MONEY ON ROADS!!!!!!! Rail should be top priority, maybe with bad roads this will get people out of their cars and make them take light rail around the city. we can run trains up and down every arterial like Maple ash, Nw bolvard Monroe Division Market 29th regal, High drive trent sprague Nevada-Lidgerwoood Welseley Garland Fransic Indian Trail Nine Mile rutter park way country holmes blvd Wall Post Lincoln Washington adams 1st 2nd thrird fifth grand altimont you name it.
deacon46 on February 13 at 4:21 p.m.
They have cut to the bone. Yet can fund over million for new street. MLK road. Yet for 1000 bucks could have renamed or co-named an existing street. It is BS stuff like this that angers many of us tax payers. And until they cut the union salaries and benefits to real workers pay levels I am not voting for any new taxes period.
eagleproducer on February 13 at 4:38 p.m.
misjustice: Wouldn’t Daisy running for Mayor make her a carpet-bagger? Oh well, the local GOP embraced Baumgartner as their new hero and his residency history is as questionable as Daisy’s. He does have her beat in one area though, his days spent as a mercenary for “the state department.” It’s interesting to note he never produced a pay stub from the state department despite NUMBEROUS requests to his campaign this past fall.
RAISE TAXES, RAISE TAXES, RAISE TAXES. And I don ‘t just mean on property owners. Just saying we are going to cut programs/personnel because your normal means of collecting revenue have shrunk is no reason to quit governing. Look to other communities who have shown ways of raising revenue with the net effect benefiting job and income growth.
eagleproducer on February 13 at 4:46 p.m.
woamike: Did anyone force you to buy property? It’s probably too late to learn you’ve been a sucker this whole time. Money to the banks in interest, money to the state in taxes, it’s no wonder so many homeowners relate tales of frugal lifestyles sacrificing half a lifetime just to get a little piece of something they can call their own.
All of my real estate holdings are part of trusts. Ask the Cowles family how that works out for tax purposes.
woamike on February 13 at 5:08 p.m.
Spoketucky,
Are you telling us you don’t pay property taxes on “‘all’ your real estate ‘holdings’”?
You never did tell us how much you pay and how much you think I should pay.
You sound like a major hypocrite. Runing around blathering about raising and paying taxes when you are apparently doing your best to avoid them. I guess only “suckers” pay taxes, at least according to your way of thinking. Apparently, YOU are part of the problem of people not paying their fair share.
Again, how much should I pay for the privilege of living in my own home? Is 8K not enough?
I have never felt so disgusted reading a post. Especially from one who is entrusted with teaching children. I would say you should be ashamed of yourself, but apparently you have no shame.
Albert on February 13 at 5:55 p.m.
Woamike don’t get too upset with Spoketucky…he’s on the proverbial public dole. A good unionized public school teacher, dedicated to getting more taxes levied, so that his salary, “benefits” and retirement will become enriched at our expense.
He is the ultimate “tax and spend into oblivion” public employee that could never make an honest living anyway.
Virtually every of his comments sounds like his Benevolent Leader and hero who sits in the White House planning our financial implosion.
woamike on February 13 at 6:45 p.m.
Albert,
Thanks for the clarification.
S-Tucky,
Care to defend your honor?
Or tell us how much you pay in property taxes on your residence?
Or tell us how much you think we should pay on ours?
SpokaneLiberal on February 13 at 6:51 p.m.
Woamike - with current tax rates and your tax bill your home is assessed at 600K+. Since assessments usually undervalue even a bad market by 15-25% (despite the state constitution saying it is suppose to be the real current value). You own a 3/4 of a million dollar home. If you don’t like those taxes sell the house and buy something more reasonable - invest the rest.
SpokaneLiberal on February 13 at 6:56 p.m.
I pay 2177 in property taxes. This state has no income tax, so with that and the minimal sales taxes I pay I get schools, roads, police, fire, libraries, wetlands, parks, minimal pollution, stable community, and dozens of other things. If for one minute you think you can get by for cheaper I will cut you a deal. You only have to pay the actual full cost of the things you actually use. It would cost you a lifetime of wages to drive on a paved road from your house to the nearest grocery store, let alone run a business or do anything else.
de3 on February 13 at 7:49 p.m.
“Coffee” above has posted an alleged list of the top ten employers in Spokane. That list is not correct - not even close. For one, Agilent is out of business in Spokane and Cisco runs a small sales office in the valley.
The correct list as of 2008, from largest to smaller, is:
State of Washington
Fairchild AFB
U.S. Government
Spokane Public Schools
Sacred Heart Medical Center
Spokane County
City of Spokane
Empire Health Services
URM Stores
Community Colleges of Spokane
7 of the 10 are government agencies and 2 are health care. Only 1 is a private sector employer.
There might be a clue there why we cannot raise sufficient funds to fund all this government -there is a lot of government in Spokane!
The data for the above comes from the Chamber of Commerce at
http://spokanewa.usachamber.com/custom2.asp?pageid=1138
which got the data from the Market Fact Book 2008, published by the Spokane Journal of Business.
drsqawken on February 13 at 8:39 p.m.
Spoketucky, carpetbaggers as you called the honorable Bumgardner and our minx Minken are what made this country great. Just like my buddie, my HERO Hawken, Rebulicans rule! If you don’t like it you should move to socialist Canada, eh.
Minken has many good ideas about what to do to make this city better. Disband the unions, like our 100 year old Regan did and raise taxes on the lazy poor. Cut socal progams, poor peaple do not deserve libaries, only us prisoners should have access to law libaries so we can get out of jail.
Daisy understands us, so does my hero Hawken. I don’t own property but if I did my taxes wouold be in a rears since I am in jail and can’t pay the taxes. But when I get out I will vote against taxes, if I can get my civil rights re instated and vote.
eagleproducer on February 13 at 8:44 p.m.
Albert: I’ve got your public dole swinging….
spokanelib: Thanks for the clarification. Poor, poor people who have to pay taxes on million dollar properties. Boo, hoo, hoo.
And for what? Can you take it with you?
And yes, only suckers pay property taxes. At least at the rate you are paying. But I’ll bet the electric bill on that place keeps you busy as well. Keep slaving away for that box of wood and sheetrock.
Spokane gets its share from me in sales and business taxes.
woamike on February 13 at 11:02 p.m.
Spokanelib,
Your solution to excessive property tax is to buy a cheaper house? Brilliant. Why didn’t I think of that.
How about a system where we ALL pay an equal share? Then people who chose to spend their money on a home vs. something else wouldn’t get savaged and everyone would have an equal amount of skin in the game. Heck, maybe your tax bill would even go down. Of course if you felt guilty about paying less taxes, you could volunteer to pay more anyway.
Of course, you’d never be in favor of a system like that, would you? Wouldn’t it go against liberal doctrine? The politicians wouldn’t go for it either because then a majority of people would complain of their reckless spending instead of just those they plunder. You’d never pass another levy in this town again if EVERYONE actually had to pay real money for it.
Market value of my home 750K?!? If only that were true. If you think it’s worth that much, I’ll gladly sell it to you anytime for 650. What a bargain to you! I’m sure you could flip it the next day for a tidy profit.
SpokaneLiberal on February 14 at 6:35 a.m.
woamike
If you had purchased other things instead of a 3/4 of a million dollar home then you would have paid a 10% sales tax on those items. The rule with property is you have to be willing to pay for it again every 30 years in taxes. If no one explained that to you it is your fault for not doing you due diligence.
And yes, my solution is to buy a smaller, or maybe just cheaper house. Lets face it, the average NEW house built in 2006-2008 was almost 3100 square feet. This while the average houshold size fell to 2.56 people. The average house size over 30 years went from less than 1500 sqft to over 2500 sqft. Average energy use went up. This all while appliances and things in the house became far more efficient. Interestingly a 1500 sqft house from 1970 consumes more energy than a 1500 sqft house from now - but the average house consumption has risen because square footage is up. Over 30% of the space in the average NEW 3100 square foot house is unused, and additional 20% is rarely used.
BUT you chose to buy that 3/4 of a million dollar property. That is your choice. Coming with that choice was the well known tax burden. I knew it when I bought my house. You don’t get to whine because of the taxes when you knew the taxes were part of the deal.
woamike on February 14 at 7:06 a.m.
So, this is how the “liberal” mind works. Heaven, help us.
bszottlinger on February 14 at 8:19 a.m.
If Daisy is running, I’m running against her. Not because I don’t think she would do a good job, I have no idea. Simply because I’d get sick of the barrage of “Daisy Chain” jokes.
SpokaneLiberal on February 14 at 9:22 a.m.
Yes woamike
The liberal mind weighs different costs and benefits. It also acknowledges that you can spend your money how you want, but that your choices have consequences societally and personally.
You should have known that you have to pay the value of your house in taxes every 30 years. If you didn’t it was failure of you to fully research your purchase and its costs and benefits.
And yes it is also a liberal mind to point out that illogically houses grew while families shrunk - while unused/little used space in houses grew from less than 10% of the square feet, to 50% of square feet.
You passed on vacations, as have I. But I also know that my purchase comes with a tax burden (and so would my vacation purchase). I value home ownership including the tax cost. If you don’t don’t buy a house.
ChefGus/ John Olsen on February 14 at 11:59 a.m.
Part of the “real” cost of living in a wholly owned home is the tax on the property… the repair/maintenance costs, the full cost of water, garbage and sewage, insurance and most importantly the “lost use cost” of the value of the home.
So if one sold a 650K home and was able to invest it long term at even 5% a year (barring these artificial low money market rates) you would have $ 32,500 cash flow… plus $7,000 taxes, $1200 insurance, $ 350 a month utilities and water and garbage, and $400 a month for replacing appliances, repairing and painting…. a new roof once in a while… that adds up to about $ 4200 a month “COST” for the comfort of staying in your older big house that requires the lawn to be mowed ect…. My two bedroom apartment with a garage costs $ 750 a month, is secure when I leave and I don’t have to push a mower or snow blower around….
It just depends on where your comfort is and where you want your assets.. but older adults would do well to “cash out’ and move to a retirement setting or a reasonably sized apartment…
If you are strapped for cash flow, and can’t pay a small increase in property taxes when you are wealthy with property and things it’s a life style choice…. it certainly does not make much sense to me on a mathematical basis.
I’ve bought and sold and made a fair amount of money on all the real estate I’ve owned… but the only property I own now is a small cabin at a lake… and I figure it costs me $1000 dollars for each of the three weekends a year I use it… John
eagleproducer on February 14 at 4:22 p.m.
woamike: Yeah, that’s how this “liberal mind” thinks. The best life for me is based in variety of experience, not being chained to property, a condition which I believe leads to self-identification through economic relationships that are subject to the caprice of markets rather than ones that are inter-personal.
The current STCU ads completely make my point in this regard.
libmark on February 15 at 10:07 a.m.
Squid —
You state that “Most Democrats prefer that someone else pay their tax for them.” I don’t know how it shakes out in other states but I have to assume that the map would look pretty similar to this one:
http://www.thestranger.com/binary/ea57/CityLead-CLICK.jpg
From the original article: http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/welfare-state/Content?oid=6686284