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February 24, 2011 in Idaho
Idaho Senate passes two school reform bills
Sen. John Goedde, R-Coeur d’Alene, offers his closing debate Thursday in favor of SB 1108, the bill to restrict teacher contract rights. It passed on a 20-15 vote, after nearly four hours of debate; the Senate then immediately launched into SB 1110, a teacher performance-pay bill.
(Full-size photo)
BOISE - Idaho’s state Senate voted 20-15 on Thursday to pass two controversial school-reform bills, including a far-reaching measure to strip the state’s teachers of many of their existing contract rights.
Sen. John Goedde, R-Coeur d’Alene, the measure’s lead sponsor, told the Senate, “This bill’s time has come.” He said, “There are some who say that these changes will cause teachers to flee Idaho. Right now we are losing teachers every day.” They’re going to private industry, Goedde said, where there may be fewer contract rights, but higher pay.
Senate President Pro-Tem Brent Hill, R-Rexburg, said during the tense, five-hour-long debate, “The system we have right now is as unfair as any system I can think of. This may not be the best way, but it’s definitely a better way.”
But most of the debate was against the bills, SB 1108 on teacher contracts and SB 1110, setting up a teacher performance pay plan.
“This is a direct slap in the face to every teacher,” declared Sen. Joyce Broadsword, R-Sagle. “When we tell them they are not valued for the job they do and that we’re going to break every contract they have because long-term contracts are bad, I disagree that this isn’t about teachers. This is about teachers, and they do do a good job.”
Sen. Shawn Keough, R-Sandpoint, said, “One of my concerns with this bill, SB 1108, is the stakeholders were not a part of this discussion up-front.” Keough said the bill would “turn upside down teacher contract law” in the midst of a financial crisis, and said her local school officials don’t want it pushed through now.
But both bills passed the Senate on identical, 20-15 votes, with bipartisan opposition. Only Republican senators voted in favor; North Idaho senators split. Both measures now move to the House, where there’s more support for them; House Education Committee Chairman Bob Nonini, R-Coeur d’Alene, who backs the bills, already has scheduled committee hearings on them starting Tuesday morning. He called them “some of the most important things we’re going to do this year.”
The third bill in the three-bill school reform package, all proposed by state schools Supt. Tom Luna, remains stalled in the Senate Education Committee, after Goedde pulled it from the Senate on Wednesday amid concerns from GOP senators about its increases in school class sizes.
That’s a centerpiece of Luna’s plan - raising class sizes in grades 4-12 and cutting 770 teaching jobs in the next two years, to save millions that then would be funneled into technology upgrades, a laptop computer for every high school student, more online courses and teacher merit pay.
The merit pay bill, SB 1110, would cost the state $38 million in its first year, fiscal year 2013, and $51.3 million in each subsequent year. Without the third bill, there’s no funding source, Goedde acknowledged. But he said there’s time to address that before the bill would take effect.
Goedde quoted President Obama: “We want to reward good teachers and stop making excuses for bad ones.”
Sen. Jim Hammond, R-Coeur d’Alene, said, “Teaching is worthy of greater respect from our society than what we currently give it, and it’s worthy of compensation relative to its importance.” Hammond said he thought the reform plan would create “a new paradigm for instruction.”
All seven of the Senate’s Democrats strongly opposed the bills, which have drawn a huge outpouring of public opposition in legislative hearings, calls, letters and emails.
Sen. Nicole LeFavour, D-Boise, said, “To me it’s astounding that this legislation has come this far and the changes that have been made to it are so minor, in the face of the overwhelming opposition that we have received.”
Across the state, teachers and supporters gathered in candlelight vigils Thursday evening to protest the bills’ passage; about 100 people silently walked around the state Capitol holding candles.
Here’s how North Idaho senators voted on SB 1108:
Voting in favor: Sens. John Goedde, R-Coeur d’Alene; Jim Hammond, R-Coeur d’Alene; and Steve Vick, R-Dalton Gardens.
Voting against: Sens. Joyce Broadsword, R-Sagle; Shawn Keough, R-Sandpoint; and Dan Schmidt, D-Moscow.
Immediately after finishing with that bill, the Senate launched into debate on SB 1110, the teacher performance pay bill. At the end of the fifth straight hour of debate - at 3 p.m. Boise time - that bill passed by the same 20-15 vote as the earlier measure. It, too, now moves to the House.
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ericdx on February 24 at 1:43 p.m.
This is not a slap in the face of GOOD teachers, if anything, it is encouragement for them. Do your job, get rewarded. For BAD teachers, and there are plenty of them out there, it is a cold dose of reality. If you don’t do your job well, you should go away, whether you have 2 years, or 32 years of service. Welcome to the reality of the world. BAD teachers either need to improve, or get out, and GOOD teachers need to (and deserve) to get retined and given bonuses.
There are plenty on there that will say that I am wrong, but just think back, adn see how many good and bad teachers you can think of. Be honest, as admit, there are teachers out there that need to go away, and frankly, the old system protects them, to the detriment of their students, and out society as a whole.
Even teachers in the union will admit that some of their peers need to o away, but they keep protecting them, so the teachers should not be suprised that they are now facing legislation when they could have, and should have taken care of the issue themselves.
pepesilvia on February 24 at 1:59 p.m.
ericdx,
I’ll be sure and tell that to my wife who will never gain tenure - not because she’s not a good teacher, but because she has changed school districts more than apparently she should have.
Science teachers who teach evolution (see: facts) to their students in Idaho now have no protection from the less intelligent (see: creationism) parents who complain about them. But you’re right. At least they’ll have to work hard now. (They already do!)
liberal_in_right_wing_land on February 24 at 2:07 p.m.
Hopefully, whatever good teachers are left in Idaho decide to leave to better states that actually supports them.
ipowerpilotcom on February 24 at 2:41 p.m.
pepsilvia
people like you are exactly why teachers are getting thrown under the bus across the nation right now. You think because you and your teacher wife have a degree that you are intellectually superior and should be able to fleece the citizens with your benefits and salary. I mean really…..creationism and evolution?
What about a state that is broke and an education system that ranks 15th in the world? For …sakes Finland has an education system superior to ours !
You should move to Madison to stand on the Capitol steps and hold your breath and stomp your feet like they do. Maybe you can get a doctor to write you an excuse for a sore toe.
You and your teacher unions have awakened a sleeping giant. Tora, Tora, Tora ! and good bye……
For the majority of the teachers out there…..thank you for your dedication and patience. We will reward you more than ever once the unions are gone.
ThinkItThrough on February 24 at 2:42 p.m.
@pepesilvia - I find your comment odd. My Idaho-middle-school-teacher wife, who will never gain tenure under these bills, agrees wholeheartedly with SB1108. As she’s noted, it seems to be the bad teachers who hide behind tenure who are having a problem with this, not the teachers who continually strive to improve not only their students, but themselves. We have watched too many children struggle with bad teachers who were protected by tenure. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, should be protected from the consequences of doing a bad job just because they made tenure.
Julia70 on February 24 at 2:48 p.m.
Union Busting idiots, all the good teachers will leave, Wages will go down, Teachers need to make a living just like everyone else. Unions are what made our country great, 8 hr days, 40 hrs weeks, public schools, just to name a few,
First they came for the teachers, ….. then they came for the rest of the working class. Every worker in Idaho needs to watch their back. Guys like the Koch brothers will be movin’ to Idaho…cheap labor keepin the rich rich and the poor poor.
ipowerpilotcom on February 24 at 3:25 p.m.
Hey Julia:
Need an excuse for that sore toe? You can always tell a when liberal or a child is writing….they revert to name calling immediately.
First came the teachers……then the working class. No one is complaining about private sector unions…..just questioning why public workers who already have civil service laws to protect them need unions.
Especially when a lot of these unions around the country have secured full family medical for public workers from the day they are hired until the day they die.
Take WI - the union owns the insurance company that supplies that medical coverage to the teachers and will not let the school board switch from their overpriced coverage to more reasonable costs. There is only one way to deal with a bully….bring in a bigger bully….like a nation full of ticked off taxpayers.
Who is going to pay for these benefits and pensions? These pension funds amd state budgets are hugely in the red ink right now. Maybe you could volunteer yourself and your group to pay…..
grandmaof6 on February 24 at 3:29 p.m.
Over 100 years ago Missouri Senator George Hearst warned of the arrogance of a one paper system, regardless of which party. Idaho’s senators have just proven his point.
grandmaof6 on February 24 at 3:33 p.m.
Over 100 years ago Missouri Senator George Hearst warned of the arrogance of a one party system, regardless of which party. Idaho’s senators have just proven his point.
TWolf22 on February 24 at 4:50 p.m.
I am an Idaho teacher. I am in my seventh year and I am below the beginning salary. To those who say teachers need to share the pain: First my salary was frozen after 5 years just as I was to get a raise. Then my salary was cut. After taxes, I take home less than $1900 per month. I contibute to both my health and retirement. I have a $950 a month mtg, a $250 student loan, utilities, insurance on the home and automobile, and then let’s talk about food, clothing, gas, and other family expenses. So please don’t tell me that we need to feel the pain and give back.
Parental imput to teacher evals??? Watch what happens to discipline now. Better yet, if you think that there is grade inflation now???? Teachers are going to be playing to parents in order not to make them unhappy. Let’s be honest. How many parents complain that their little sweetheart is not getting the A, when in fact that child is lucky to get the C that they receive. With so many parents conscious of college transcripts etc… just watch how they try and run off teachers who expect discipline and excellence, or have expectations and consequences.
A huge reason for the failure in the schools is poor parenting, watch what happens when you give them the power to influence whether a teacher is fired???????
gracieallan on February 24 at 5:28 p.m.
Having taught in both public and private schools, I can tell you firsthand that some of the biggest problems with the public system come from the teacher’s unions. They, unfortunately, protect the bad teacher as fiercely as the good teacher. Teachers have no direct accountability to their employers (the local taxpayer). In fact, they sometimes actively disdain the opinions of the local parents. (For a good example of this, read the post below by Idaho teacher TWolf22).
The outcry over this legislation is about largely about union power. I hope Idaho legislators will not be manipulated.
hawken on February 24 at 5:35 p.m.
I am totally depressed. The public employee unions have suffered another setback.
What will we do? Have you ever seen a more, misinformed electorate who gave those foolish Republicans power?
Furthermore, why did the liberal Democrats not simply walk out to shut down Idaho government?
I am really disappointed in liberals.
fortboise on February 24 at 7:17 p.m.
@ericdx: yup, you’re wrong, and you demonstrate your ignorance about the teaching profession as well as what makes effective organizations. Seeking retribution for whatever you suffered as a child is not going to help education in Idaho, or anywhere else.
This isn’t the first enterprise where clueless management has decided that axing all the “bad” workers will make everything better. We have a little left-over Latin from it, “decimation.”
@ipowerpilotcom, not sure what your point is. You have something against Finland? But thanks for making your anti-union attitude crystal clear.
@hawken: your “biting” sarcasm is even less entertaining than your usual fare.
For all those who feel like killing unions will improve your circumstances, please contact me about some fine bridges I have on offer. Hurry, they’re going fast.
ipowerpilotcom on February 24 at 8:56 p.m.
fortboise
You got my point or you wouldn’t have thanked me for the anti (public) union attitude.
Also, I was pointing out that Finland was in the top 5 in the world for educational excellence…..and bravo for them. I was also pointing out that USA came in 15th and will soon be 20th if the unions keep protecting bad teachers. Look at the post from gracieallen….she has been there.
Next time I will send a messenger to explain to you…..
jddavis on February 24 at 9:25 p.m.
TWolf22; You spent at least four years in college working your tail off to gain the necessary qualifications to become a teacher. During that time, did you take the opportunity to research what teachers make when they enter the workforce? Of course you did! I know it’s not all about money, it’s about the kids and giving back to society because of something in your past, correct?
You should be thankful for the good parents as well as the bad, because they all allow you to fulfill your goal and provide you opportunity to be a teacher.
If you think you feel enough pain, perhaps you are correct. If you are a good teacher (and I believe you are), then getting evaluated by parents who intrust you with their children shouldn’t be a concern. On the positive side, some of the sub-par teachers that have seniority on you may be “moving on” after evaluations; increasing your seniority and income potential.
By the way, how does someone qualify for a $950 mortgage while only taking home $1900? 50-percent of net income is extremely high for a mortgage.
hay on February 24 at 9:44 p.m.
I agree with what Tom Luna is doing. We need a plan to get bad teachers out, for the students. Great teachers do great things with the students, we need more of this. We have to do whats best for the students not for teachers. It has to be about the students and I think great teachers stick around because they see the difference they are making and want to keep making that impact on the students.
ipowerpilotcom on February 24 at 10:02 p.m.
This is why unions need to go:
This is from the NY Times……it’s a retired NJ teacher talking about his retirement.
Mr. Lonabaugh, who taught math and science for 35 years, now enjoys free health insurance. “Twenty-five years ago, a Democrat told me, ‘You’ll never get free health for retirees, because it would bankrupt the state,’ ” Mr. Lonabaugh said with a slightly rueful smile. “And we got it. And he was right.”
Holden_Caufield on February 24 at 10:37 p.m.
Since Finland was brought up: Average class sizes in Finland are 18 students, with a maximum allowable class size of 20 students per classroom. Why 20? Because that is the level that a scientifically based and researched international study determined was the level at which student achievement increases for students. You have less achievement when that number is increased - exponentially so.
Now in CDA area, with K-3 levels included the average number of students per classroom is about 24. In the grades that this bill increases class sizes for (4th, 5th), the number seems to be more towards the 28-30 student range currently.
Anyone want to venture a guess what this will do to achievement in Idaho?
Lots of focus on how bad teachers are the cause of the problems - do you think that states with higher achievement levels do not have the same problem? I think poor teaching is to blame for a portion of the problem, but it seems like the focus of the conversation has made “bad teachers” the main issue with education in Idaho. In reality, my bet is that the percentage of below average teachers in Idaho is going to be similar to what you see in other states.
Holden_Caufield on February 24 at 10:41 p.m.
I challenge you to find a “good teacher” that thinks that these bills are in the best interest of the students and education system in Idaho. If you need to know where to look to find one, try going down to one of the vigils or rallies that are taking place across the state in opposition to these bills.
Patanjali on February 24 at 10:47 p.m.
If a person has rights that are contractually granted, then stripping them of these rights is a breach of the contract. I hope the teachers find a good pro bono lawyer and cost the Idaho taxpayers millions of dollars in legal fees, and in the end, win the case and force idaho to pay millions in back pay.
ipowerpilotcom on February 24 at 11:08 p.m.
Caufield: cute……I guess that intro class that I paid so much money for at UW was just a piece of …… it had 300 students in it…can you get my money back for me?
According to you, if we get the class size to 10…..every kid will get an “A”…..cute.
Patanjali: Maybe those lawyers could pay the state deficit while they’re busy suing the taxpayers of Idaho. Your attitude is so typical of unions…..”I hope the taxpayers get screwed for not listening to us.”
I think an interviewer in WI summed it up. He asked a protesting teacher if they were there to undo the political process (that elected the governor) until “they get it right”. The teacher thought about it for a moment and said “yes”……and never did really get the meaning of the question.
Holden_Caufield on February 25 at 6:54 a.m.
ipower:
- I was talking about elementary education, not sure what your intro to ? class at UW has to do with elementary education or the state of Idaho.
- As to your second comment, you are putting words in my mouth. Did I say having a class size of 10 means every student will receive an A level grade? No. What I said was that as class sizes decrease achievement rises. A smaller class means more individualized instruction, more time to cover material, and more attention from the teacher. Why do you think private schools advertise the fact that their classes are smaller in size?
TWolf22 on February 25 at 9:33 a.m.
JDDavis: First off, I am in my seventh year teaching, and you don’t know what my income was when I purchased my home. Prior to teaching I was in private business for many years which was rendered obsolete do to technology. So I “re-trained.” And yes, I knew that I would not get rich, but my salary was frozen when my contract was promised to increase substantially, and then cut from that.
Yes, I went into teaching because I enjoy helping our young people to learn and prepare for their futures. There are many very good parents, but there are also many who, like the squeaking wheel and seem to be the loudest voices, complain if their child does not get the high grade.
I have had my administrator tell me that I am one of 5 or 6 teachers who have had parents request that their child not be given my class. The admin then said that those parents were GPA hounds, who are so concerned about the GPA of their child, and they know that I am a very demanding teacher who expects the kids to deliver excellent work for the A grade.
So it is those types of parents who concern me.
dizylizy on February 28 at 1:35 p.m.
I agree, good teachers should be rewarded. That should go unsaid. However, under this new law, my daughters teacher would be fired. She is an excellent teacher, but because she not only holds a degree in Special Education (along with her other teaching degree), if there are any students in the school that need extra help in the grade she teaches, they go to her class. Her class size isn’t lowered to help her with this, and she doesn’t get any extra teacher aides. No matter how hard she tries, or how hard the students try (ALL of them) , the class grade averages do fall. Is that her fault? Should she be fired for it? And what about the teachers that have unruly children in their class? One unruly child can spell disaster for the whole class. Increasing class sizes will only make those matters worse. You see everywhere that smaller class sizes are best, so why are we increasing class sizes? It just doesn’t make any sense to me.