January 23, 2011 in City

Clark: Tucker made right call in a sad case

Doug Clark The Spokesman-Review

Tags:Alan CreachBrian HirzelDoug Clarkofficer-involved shootingofficer shootingSpokane County prosecutorsteve tuckerWayne CreachWayne Scott Creach

34 comments on this story so far. Add yours!

Alfredo on January 23 at 6:42 a.m.
What I’m curios of is, in many other cities, officers are wired for sound. We see this on those “wildest police video” type shows. Why is there no dashcam video or officer audio?
Unfortunately but hopefully this incident can be learned from. First, officers shouldn’t be parked on private property in an unmarked car at night in an area that has had reported incidents of theft and vandalism without notifying the land owner. Second, perhaps it is time for Spokane and Spokane County (including Spokane Valley) to invest in recording devices, then when we have incidents such as these we might have an independent witness. Last, even though officers are afforded special benefits of doubt, perhaps allowing them to go on a week vacation before questioning should be re-examined. Perhaps they should be questioned immediately (or at least within 24-48 hours since I believe a union lawyer is required before questioning).
dataxman on January 23 at 6:53 a.m.
Guess we will have to wait for the civil suit to get to the truth - unless the Feds decide to come in…
lewis8457 on January 23 at 8:01 a.m.
if the feds step in it will be years of delays like Otto’s trial. civil case they wont win because he is a cop look at the Jay Olson trial. We had that fairy dead to rights and he got off.
No if I was the Creach family i would move out of Washington so they couldn’t get anymore of my tax money. And then i would plan my revenge.
bszottlinger on January 23 at 8:03 a.m.
Look Doug! Just slow down when you are driving, and wait for the walk sign when you are crossing the street. I don’t think they will ever find out about the other stuff. The law enforcement folks will like this one. It’s too bad “BitofBacon” doesn’t read your column anymore he would like this one.
I understand your position but on the next one take a good look at how Mr. Tucker reached his decision and keep in mind that although you are right, we may never know now what happened the reason we may never know is that the investigation was no different then the Zehm case.
D Statler on January 23 at 9:14 a.m.
Washington State law is our law.Either put your gun down on the ground or shoot first to protect yourself and take your chances with the tilted legal system. Mr Creach should have put his weapon on the ground when asked to.I too believe that a heavy handed decision was made before Mr.Creach was actually shot. The officer could and should have seen he was in NO real danger from the pastor.There were numerous other times the pastor had carried a weapon to protect himself.The police were well aware of this risky behavior.JUST PUT THE GUN ON THE GROUND SLOWLY! Hopefully the heavy handed officer at the sceen will give you a chance to.
Once again Our family sends our heartfelt condolences to the Creaches for this tragic loss.I pray that this sort of thing will never happen again.
Doug, did anything ever become of the sex toy buisness coverup?
saveyourtatas on January 23 at 9:19 a.m.
Doug,
-
Yes, we all knew Tucker would make this decision. Many of us have been utterly befuddled at the fact he was re-elected. Spokane can be very ignorant when it comes to politics and freakish leaders have kept you busy (Hasson, Eugster, Tucker)
One question is this: If we know or suspect that Tucker will never prosecute a fellow cop, will this embolden other police to feel free to solve problems with bulletts when they could use “less-than-lethal” methods? I think this is a huge and growing problem and I am very pleased to learn that Shannon Sullivan (or someone) has started a recall movement. Is it a long shot? Maybe. But she did it 5 years ago with a corrupt leader (Jim West). Tucker is far less visible than West, and as far as we know, Tucker does not have the same preferences and perversions. BUT. Doug……have you read the thousand page document from Tony Bamonte? Steve Tucker is accused of an ongoing corruption that is incredibly detailed and troublesome. And I am not talking about RPS and Savage…it goes way beyond that and it goes back more than 25 years, a full 13 years before Tucker became prosecutor. This is, in my opinion, an ethically challenged man who is willing to cover up for his “brothers in blue”. The only witness was killed, so Hirzel walks free. Just like Karl Thompson, who got a promotion? WOW. Verner and Kirkpatrick blamed Otto? AMAZING.
The public is enraged by the aloof indifference Tucker shows as he once again refuses to allow a jury to decide. Were his hands tied by law? Maybe. But maybe his hands were tied down by loyalty to “The Brotherhood”. There is a growing couldron of rage brewing and Spokane citizens are buying guns now at an alarming rate. We do not trust the police. They protect themselves…..not the public. The unions never admit wrongdoing. We all saw the video that Jim Nicks hid from us. Karl Thompson killed Otto Zehm. They argue that 911 and the inept “first responders” were to blame. A shared blame. Thompson sprinted in there and lied about Otto lunging forward.
The police lie when they make mistakes and they get it covered up by other cops. Tucker is a former cop and he cannot be trusted with a gavel or a golf club. Tucker represents the very worst kind of leadership. Lazy. Aloof. Incompetent.
RECALL STEVE TUCKER
My husband and I will work hard to help Spokane excise this legal lesion and we hope you will help Shannon Sullivan and the volunteers.
REMEMBER OTTO ZEHM
REMEMBER SCOTT CREACH
RIP
SpokaneLiberal on January 23 at 9:28 a.m.
Based upon the evidence it is “probably” the right call, but this community needs a substantial police outreach to quell concerns. Police also need to change the rules of using deadly force and improve officer training,
We also need a new prosecutor. Tucker’s incompetence on other police cases makes all his police related decisions suspect,
saveyourtatas on January 23 at 9:51 a.m.
Well said SpokaneLiberal
see www.SpokaneCopWATCH.com
EdubU on January 23 at 10:01 a.m.
Spokane voted Tucker in again. What does that tell you??
ChefGus/ John Olsen on January 23 at 10:03 a.m.
Doug, thank you for your cogent, coherent and correct evaluation of this tragedy. Carrying a loaded, but not chambered .45 Cal Semi Auto out in the open, in your hand is a mistake unless you feel your life is directly threatened. Obey the officer/officers, as their training is the same as that in the Army, with the result sadly as we are experiencing it. John
Liberty_Bell on January 23 at 10:32 a.m.
What Verdict, by what Jury?
The Washington State Model, unchanged for generations.
“Decency, security and liberty alike demand that government officials shall be subjected to the rules of conduct that are commands to the citizen. In a government of laws, existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent, omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for the law, it invites every man to come a law unto himself. It invites anarchy. (United States v. Olmstead, 277 U.S. 438 (1928).
spokanecougar on January 23 at 10:38 a.m.
Such a contradicting article. In one sentence you said you are glad with the decision, but in the very next on you give reasons why it was BS. Tucker and this whole investigation effed this up from the beginning. As I have said before, I hope this family sues the hell out of the Sheriffs office and Mr. Hirzel - who I believe should be sitting in jail next to his new jail cell boyfriend Big Bubba being showed how much dirty cops are not welcomed ANYWHERE, including jail.
cpd805 on January 23 at 10:39 a.m.
Tatas,
I don’t disagree with most of what you said regarding Tucker and the corruption regarding the Savage case. I do have a problem with how information gets twisted and eventually spouted as fact in this forum. For instance….where did the assertion that Karl Thompson got a promotion come from? I’ll tell you how…it was erroneously mentioned by another blogger in this furum and then repeated several times until it bacame “fact”. The fact is that Thompson did not get a promotion. He got moved into the Planning Unit because he is not allowed to carry a gun until the case is resolved (resolved may be a poor word choice). He has not been promoted in any sense of the word.
Alfredo,
I couldn’t agree more regarding the recording devices. It all boils down to money. Cameras would be a reality if the City/County realized they would pay for themselves after the first civil suit.
Liberal,
I agree that outreach is needed and training should be improved….but the rules regarding deadly force and OIS are the same everywhere in the country. The Graham case has been brought up here before…and that is the law of the land regarding police use of force. How is the Graham standard flawed?
misjustice on January 23 at 10:42 a.m.
*********This was a good man trying to protect his property.******
That is an opinion & not actually verifiable. Some say yes & some say no. Being a member of a hate group, no matter how long ago, tells something of the mentality of the man. Yes, people can change but usually not too far from their original beliefs & upbringing.
Some of you on here think Tucker should be recalled. Well, the public had that option & the majority spoke, He Stays.
*****perhaps it is time for Spokane and Spokane County (including Spokane Valley) to invest in recording devices, then when we have incidents such as these we might have an independent witness.*****
Where have you been? Each police vehicle has a camera on the dash, but must be turned on before the officer leaves the vehicle, as it has to be on the personally mounted recording devices. It is not an automatic recording that runs all day. The altercation took place at the side of the car. I’m sure Deputy Hirzel would love to have a recording……..it would show what he said is actually what happened.
One last thing: It will be found that the latest shooting will also be justified. People make the comment about being in danger of a knife & a person that had been drinking. How can that officer be in danger? Well, let’s just say the living room was not that big……. What? A 12 X 15 room? How many steps would it take to be attacked? Not all of us live in massive homes with huge “great rooms”.
Just a thought. IMHO the shooting was justified.
cpd805 on January 23 at 10:52 a.m.
Gramma stated:”Where have you been? Each police vehicle has a camera on the dash, but must be turned on before the officer leaves the vehicle, as it has to be on the personally mounted recording devices”
Actually that is not true. SPD and SCSO vehicles are not equipped with cameras. There was a trial period a few years ago where a couple of cars were outfitted with cameras, but for whatever reason ($$), that idea fell by the wayside.
Liberty_Bell on January 23 at 10:56 a.m.
Gramma?
The Ku Klux Act of 1871, applies to Steve Tucker, not Creach in case, your confused with the case, and 42 USC 1983.
Did the most recent model LA County v. Humpheries in the United States Supreme Court (2010) also confuse you regarding the Act of 1871?
Why is it so confusing Gramma, of who the Klan members are?
misjustice on January 23 at 11:09 a.m.
Sorry. I really thought SPD & SCSD had the camera’s. I guess it’s Kootenai County that has them.
Liberty_Bell on January 23 at 11:17 a.m.
Actually Gramma
In Camera review comes to every County Prosecutor!
Even Prosecutor #1, left behind at law school!
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2009/09/04/06-36059.pdf
bszottlinger on January 23 at 11:21 a.m.
Cpd805:
Hey kid you are back, great!
The Graham standard isn’t flawed it’s the process of establishing the Graham standard was met that is flawed.
How about responding to this(below) on a different thread, Doug Clark gets extra money if there are a lot of posts on one of his columns.
http://www.spokesman.com/comments/cr/42/293572/#c249299
saveyourtatas on January 23 at 12:06 p.m.
My understanding, which comes from two police officers I see every week, is that Thompson is or was one of the head trainers for police in critical incidents and response. Now, to me, that is a promotion. Actually, to have him return to the job is a promotion, because that is better than being found guilty of murder or manslaughter…or whatever or however you want to put it…..
Karl Thompson is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the death of Otto Zehm. Any other assignment of blame is mentally pugnacious and wrought with the Police Guild propensity to explain away any form of culpability.
KARL THOMPSON KILLED OTTO ZEHM (is that clear ?)
Anybody who watched the video knows it, regardless of the idiots who called 911 and the morons who arrived in an ambulence. Without the original wrath of Karl thompson’s baton, no other mistakes would have been made. It was wrong. The legal terminology is wrongful death. Similar to how Thompson pretended to be divorced to avoid taxes. Similar to how Hirzel lied about his wife selling porno related materials and sex toys. Both these cops seem sleazy by both actions and deceptions.
Indicative of low ethics and telling.
Thompson Killed Otto Zehm
Hirzel thus kiled Scott Creach
The civil trial will be very fascinating for those familiar with forensics and the many arguments available via the second ammendment. I have a real and deep fear that some nut might watch all this media coverage and pull a Loughner. You know, somebody will see Tucker continue to let cops walk around, guns ablaze, like a Clint Eastwood film….. It is dangerous to have no authority over cops who kill. There might be some kind of wrath that is seeded by Tuckers inability to charge. I certainly hope we do not have another FORZA coffee massacre. That was a tragedy. But Tucker is creating the atmosphere…Fear.
Fear.
When the public fears the police.
When the public does not trust cops.
When the public has lost trust in the prosecutor.
When police kill in statistically unfathomable numbers.
When anger builds and builds and becomes a smoldering pit.
This is what Tucker is creating by failing to do the couraeous thing. His boys in blue would scream and complain. BUT, every once in a long while, Tucker must actually allow a jury to decide.
If he fails to do that, he will create his own perfect storm and some nutball like loughner will pull a FORZA and kill a bunch of cops. THEN, Tucker will be outraged. Like the people are now.
We should all think long and hard about how frequently people are being killed by police and ask why? WHY? Spokane is a tiny little hick town, yet it has the number of kills by cops equal to New York and many larger cities. There is a reason for that and it must be addressed. If not, things will get worse. They are bad now, but they can easily get worse if leadership fails to address this. The city council and the county commissioners need to take charge and appoint a special investigator. They can call it a “study”….but they must do something. They must actually….. LEAD !
saveyourtatas on January 23 at 12:08 p.m.
Wow.
-
A friend just got an email from RecallSteveTucker@Hotmail.com
-
A very long and well written email (hopefully by a lawyer)
Thanks (-:
richie on January 23 at 12:13 p.m.
Hirzel may have met the standards of the law, but not common sense. He had to have a good idea that he was dealing with the property owner, not some shirtless, elderly burglar with a .45 wandering around in the middle of the night. We pay these guys to use their heads in distinguishing the bad guys from the good guys, and to actually take some risk to their personal safety to assure a safe outcome for all involved. I would like to think that similar encounters happen all the time with good results. It is almost like someone has told law enforcement to no longer take a chance with your safety, when confronted with a threat, go to steps one, then two. Step one is pull out your gun…step two is to use it. So my question is, has there been a change in deadly force protocols, or has the change been in the officers perception of when to apply deadly force?
spokanecougar on January 23 at 12:27 p.m.
I really hope this recall Steve Tucker thing gets started. This clown needs to go.
saveyourtatas on January 23 at 1:35 p.m.
it has started, thanks to 2 people (and now about 12 or so)
February 5 is the tentative “Kick-Off” party.
Details will be on either the facebook page above or @
www.SpokaneCOPwatch.com (under NEWS or OPINION)
Pat O'Leary on January 23 at 4:06 p.m.
If a cop gets out of his car to confront someone, why doesn’t he turn on his flashing blue lights? I think that would allay suspicion by any civilian that is in the vicinity.
Alfredo on January 23 at 4:44 p.m.
@Pat OLeary, not so much…
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/oct/13/fake-spokane-cop-stops-gonzaga-student/
As for dash cams and recording devices, there are several different systems out there available to law enforcement, some are always active and some are activated when there is radio transmission and remains active for around 60 seconds following the last radio transmission, etc.
Regardless of whether Spokane, Spokane Valley or the sheriff’s departments have dash cams is a pointless argument since they obviously do not help if the officer is not in front of the vehicle but sound recording devices seem to be a must, especially with the distrust of the citizens.
I sincerely do not believe that all cases are of over-zealous, murderous police officers, in fact, I strongly believe most officers are good people with great intentions and perform a service to all of us by keeping us safe. Many people whom seem to have a distrust of the police are also the same people who proclaim loudly that they believe in owning and/or carrying guns to protect themselves. Imagine you protect your home or your family with the use of a gun, even on your own property you will need to show reason that you feared for your safety; if saying someone came at you with a knife be good enough in your mind to defend your home or family? I’d imagine so, now apply this same scenario to a police officer.
Certain cases like Otto Zehm and (perhaps? because we do not have facts, only suspicions) the Creach case leave serious doubt as to the integrity of our police departments but I implore you all to try to keep open minds whenever an officer needs to protect him/herself or the public at large by having to discharge their firearm.
Some cases, such as the officer involved shooting at the Special K Bar in Hillyard is an example where I think the officers were right on the money…if you’re going to own a gun and if you’re going to point it at someone and an officer tells you to drop it, precious few seconds matter. Even if the officers had not told the suspect to drop the weapon, I feel their actions were justified because of one simple thing; when I was trained in gun use long ago, I was told “If you ever expose a gun and aim it at anyone, you better be prepared to pull the trigger because you have to assume that the guy pointing one at you is ready and willing to do the same.”
The Creach case unfortunately leaves more questions than answers and there is only one person who has those answers and because he’s an officer who may or may not be protecting himself, we may never know the answers which is why I feel the City of Spokane (despite not being involved in the case but can learn from it) and the County Sheriff’s Department (and subsequent City of Spokane Valley) NEED to invest in technologies such as recording devices for officers, they also need to hold public forums and outreach to citizens whom really have lost any and all respect or trust for these law enforcement agencies.
zelda on January 23 at 5:10 p.m.
In a surprise announcement Monday, Spokane Valley Mayor Tom Towey disclosed that beauty product manufacturer Urban Decay will provide corporate sponsorship for projects designed to curb the Valley’s festering blight. “As a leading purveyor of cosmetics to today’s youth, we recognize that irony is a crucial element of our brand, so we are extending our support to communities in need of a make-over.”
OK. I’ll leave the satire to Doug Clark.
Meanwhile, Mad Max Nation continues. Just heard that two sheriff’s deputies were shot at a WalMart in Port Orchard, WA, and four cops were shot right in their precinct station in Detroit. What are we coming to?
bszottlinger on January 23 at 5:15 p.m.
Alfredo:
I agree with you, the most important thing that comes in to play however is good old RAC; Recognize your mistakes, Admit your mistakes, Correct your mistakes. Sometimes hard to do especially for public officials.
Technology is great, but in matters like this it all boils down to good old gumshoe stuff.
misjustice on January 23 at 5:57 p.m.
“Meanwhile, Mad Max Nation continues. Just heard that two sheriff’s deputies were shot at a WalMart in Port Orchard, WA, and four cops were shot right in their precinct station in Detroit. What are we coming to?”
The peasants are revolting!
What’s next? Heads on pikes?
Orphan on January 23 at 8:14 p.m.
I am always surprized at how many of you are taking at face value officer Hitzels statements. Leos lie all the time the only difference is its unlawful for one of us to lie to LE but its perfectly lawful for them to lie to us, habits are hard to break.
cpd805 on January 24 at 11:15 a.m.
Well I guess if a police officer being stripped of his gun and only allowed to return to work in a diminished capacity is a “promotion”, then you are correct.
And no, he is not a “head trainer”. He is in the planning unit, not the training unit. He does help coordinate a computer-based training program regarding policies and procedures, but that would hardly be anything close to what you described.
Anyway, until the criminal trial and internal investigation are completed, due process dictates he either work in a diminished capacity or be on PAID leave.
lewis8457 on January 24 at 2:36 p.m.
cpd so a officer that ran into a store with his baton held high and started to hit someone with out a word then is given a job as part of the planning unit regarding policies and procedures for arrests, is not a promotion to you??
He should washing toilets at Walla Walla. And why cant he carry a gun? If the SPD thinks he is innocent which they must since he is still working there and he did not kill Otto with a gun why no gun? Did they take his over sized unbreakable baton away from him too?
Paid leave? I a wish he would chose that i just as soon he isn’t in on writing arrest procedures for new recruits. Maybe that is why we have dead citizens piling up. Hitler is writing the arrest procedures.
cpd805 on January 25 at 4:52 p.m.
Well Lewis….just because he is at a higher level than YOU would like him to be does not change the fact that he has been relegated to a lower level…to a civilian planning position. By definition, that is a demotion. Actually he is at the same pay level so I consider it neither a promotion nor a demotion….more of a lateral move. Now if he is found guilty in court, he will surely face a demotion, most likely terminiation and possibly jail time. If he is not found guilty by a jury or if the prosecutor drops the charges, you’ll assume it is more police corruption (damn jury packed with officers). Will you accuse the federal prosecutor of pandering to police if he drops the charges after the 9th Circuit denies their appeal?
By the way, again….where do people get the idea that Thompson is “writing” policies and procedures? SPD policies are written by an outside corporation called Lexipol. Again, more ignorant comments by people who have “heard something somewhere”, then spout it off as fact.
Kivaari on January 28 at 8:31 a.m.
Lewis, If an officer or any other person is under felony charges, like Thomson is right now, he is denied the right to keep and bear arms. His transfer to a training job, is a way to get some moneys worth out of him while he awaits the federal trial. By being charged in federal court, the feds were trying to punish him for years while they delay actually having the trial.