Spokane7
55°
January 25, 2011 in City
Use-of-force case leaves questions
Ombudsman won’t certify outcome of internal probe
Brian Greear leans against a tree in his front yard as he talks about the night Spokane police pulled him over for reckless driving.
(Full-size photo)
Brian Greear remembers the sirens that prompted him to stop his car. But the 27-year-old Spokane man says he can’t remember what happened before he awoke face down in a South Hill street with a police officer’s knee in his back.
“I just heard ‘Stop resisting! Stop resisting,’ ” he said.
Greear’s arrest last July on suspicion of reckless driving, resisting arrest and driving with a suspended license has led to a disagreement between the Spokane Police Department and police Ombudsman Tim Burns, who has refused to certify the department’s internal investigation into a witness’s complaint of excessive force used against Greear.
Burns questions an administrative review panel’s recommendation to exonerate the two accused officers. But police Chief Anne Kirkpatrick, who acted on the recommendation, said Burns doesn’t have the legal authority to make such a claim because his oversight is limited to internal investigations, not the later administrative review panels made up of police leaders.
“I don’t look at it as a substantive issue. To me, it’s just a legal question,” Kirkpatrick said. “What is Tim Burns’ authority and is the (panel) part of the investigation?”
Burns, who started work as the city’s first police ombudsman in August 2009, disagrees.
“My position is, If not me, then who?” he said.
Regardless of his legal authority, Burns said he feels it’s important to express his concerns about every aspect of an internal probe.
“If I don’t point out that I think things are flawed, then the presumption would be things are not,” he said. “If I’m the only civilian who has the opportunity to review this stuff, and I don’t take the opportunity to say what I see, are there really checks and balances in place?”
Burns asked the review panel – to better justify its ruling that the officers who arrested Greear did nothing wrong. He said he can’t see the correlation between the finding and a dozen witness statements that raise questions about the officers’ conduct.
“There’s just not a rational explanation,” he said.
The probe is one of three internal investigations Burns has refused to certify as “timely, thorough and objective” since the City Council appointed him Spokane’s first ombudsman 18 months ago. He reviewed about 65 investigations last year. Another 15 internal complaints are still under investigation by the department’s internal affairs division.
Greear’s case is the only one in which Burns criticizes not just the investigation but the conclusion of the department review panel.
Different accounts
Greear was headed home in his red Honda Accord on July 30 when he heard police sirens. Officers Shaidon Storch and Scott Haney wrote in a probable cause affidavit supporting misdemeanor charges against Greear that he fled a traffic stop for reckless driving and that they removed him from the car after he stopped on a lawn at South Napa Street and East 37th Avenue.
Greear denies fleeing from police and said he got out of his car with his hands up and lost consciousness when police slammed him to the pavement.
“I’ve been knocked out twice in my life, and that was definitely one time,” Greear said.
He said officers taunted him on the way to the police station and at the jail as blood poured from his face and covered his shirt. He said jailers tossed his bloodied shirt in a garbage can.
His girlfriend cleaned gravel from his face when he got home about five hours after his arrest.
“Everything was just totally bogus,” Greear said.
A couple months later, internal affairs investigator Sgt. Dave McCabe showed up at Greear’s home on West Gordon Avenue to talk about his arrest. Witnesses Greear didn’t know had complained to police that the officers used excessive force.
“I didn’t even know you could file complaints against the police,” Greear said.
Police would not release the internal affairs investigation because the officers were exonerated. The witness who filed the complaint has not been publicly identified.
Steve Sherman, who lives near the intersection where Greear was arrested, said he witnessed the arrest but that his view was obstructed by Greear’s car door.
Sherman said an older couple who had an unobstructed view of the incident were very critical of police, and he believes they might have made the complaint. “I would see no reason why those people would fabricate,” he said.
Sherman said after seeing a “big pool of blood” where Greear was arrested, “It seemed a little much.”
A detective said Greear had smashed his head against the patrol car. Sherman said, “To me, something just didn’t ring true about that.”
Sherman told McCabe what he saw in an interview on Sept. 28. He questioned why Greear was charged with resisting arrest.
“He used a lot of four-letter words, but he shouldn’t be charged with resisting,” Sherman said. “He couldn’t resist – he had two cops pinning him down.”
Other concerns raised
Spokane police Lt. Craig Meidl, who reviews internal investigations, said witnesses gave conflicting statements while the officers gave consistent accounts.
“Four witnesses, normal Joe Citizens, said, ‘Oh my gosh, those officers did this.’ But there’s also witnesses who said ‘absolutely did not happen. The guy was the one being aggressive,’ ” Meidl said. But Storch and Haney were “consistent in their reports, they’re consistent in their interviews” and consistent with the other witnesses, he said. Along with concerns about the panel recommending Kirkpatrick exonerate Storch and Haney, Burns, the ombudsman, pointed to several weeks-long gaps in the investigation in which no work was completed. The 123-day investigation included 76 days of inactivity.
Police told him the gaps resulted from scheduled vacations. Fine, Burns said, but plan ahead so that won’t happen again.
Meidl questioned Burns’ concern, pointing to a union agreement that calls for internal investigations to be completed within six months.
“Timeliness to him, it’s subjective,” Meidl said.
He said the three aspects Burns is charged with reviewing in an investigation – timeliness, thoroughness and objectivity – are limited to an internal investigation, not the action taken because of the investigation.
“If he wants that authority, he’s going to have to get the ordinance changed,” Meidl said. “It’s the law, and we’re all expected to uphold the law, whether it’s labor law or criminal law.”
Burns’ authority to raise concerns is limited to how well the investigation is conducted, Meidl said.
Burns said the investigation was thorough. He just doesn’t understand why the officers were exonerated when witness statements said otherwise.
“The (panel) is entitled to their findings, but I think they need to do a comprehensive job of connecting all of the information,” Burns said. “I don’t think that report clearly reflected that.”
Human trafficking suspects released 
saveyourtatas on January 25 at 12:32 a.m.
Wow. Tim Burns finally stood up to his fellow cops and called their bluff. Chief Kirkpatrick really comes off badly in this scenario. Like a bit of a flunky weasel who will always back the bully boys in blue. I want to know what the other two cases were in the Ombudsmans “not satisfied” file. I bet they were Shonto Pete and the overcharged case against David Elton.
How can we find out the other two?
Thank GOD for Tim Burns. My husband said he would eventually come through…and he did.
hammer1969 on January 25 at 12:46 a.m.
You can tell from this story that Burns doesn’t have a clue what he is doing. What a waste of another $250,000
philipgregory on January 25 at 7:10 a.m.
I thought Kirkpatrick was gone already.
When is Spokane going to CLEAN HOUSE and get rid of Kirkpatrick, Tucker and sheriff ‘Ozzie’….
Maybe then someone else can get a handle on all of this excessive force by police.
recallstevetucker on January 25 at 7:53 a.m.
Please check out the “Effort to Recall Steve Tucker” on face book. We realize this is not Tuckers issue, but it plays into the accountability we need to DEMAND!!!!!!!
Hear our voices!
Scoutster on January 25 at 7:57 a.m.
More self-defeating behavior from our tattered, paranoid and contemptuous blue line.
misjustice on January 25 at 7:58 a.m.
Some of the cops in this area are way out of control.
My guess is it’s going to take a Detroit to get them to listen to citizen’s concerns and clean up their ranks. I don’t know how the good cops deal with the rouge actors amongst their ranks.
misjustice on January 25 at 8:00 a.m.
See related story futher down on the Local page…re; Bad Cops
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/jan/25/long-wait-by-armed-driver-also-at-issue/
liarsinnews on January 25 at 8:01 a.m.
The ombudsman decision shows me the position is a facade. The Chief showed her colors with her comment. I`m not surprised.
Orphan on January 25 at 8:07 a.m.
Thank you Mr. Burns for standing up for us. SPD needs a wake up call, excessive force should not be tollerated. There is a growing divide between citizens and their servents AKA the SPD. Law Enforcement needs to start cleaning their own house before it is cleaned by the citizens via the ballot box and law suits. When we clean house there will be constraints that will make it very hard for LE to do its job.
I still cant believe that Kirkpatrick wants to stop photography of infrastructure, there is no crime being commited Cheif.
jessiepn on January 25 at 8:13 a.m.
I’ve been concerned that Tim Burns is merely a figurehead intended to lull the public into thinking there is some oversight of the police department. I’m pleased to see that he’s actually trying to do something. The citizens of Spokane should let Anne Kirkpatrick know that we want real accountability of the police department and the actions of its officers.
eagleproducer on January 25 at 8:30 a.m.
Where’s the “if you don’t want to have your face smashed in by the cops then don’t drive” crowd?
saveyourtatas on January 25 at 8:37 a.m.
BaconBits likely recieved a new memo from Kirkpatrick.
They just might be getting a clue now and steering clear of ticking off the bloggers. Or, if they really were smart, they would simply hire a couple lawyers to blog under numerous names. At least the arguments would be well written and cogent.
—
Wait, I spoke too soon…Pork Bellies are on their way….3, 2, 1
Orange on January 25 at 8:48 a.m.
Everyone is blaming police for the changes occuring in Spokane. I don’t blame police, ever think about society itself in Spokane has changed. Its seems the percentages are pretty high, when someone is pulled over with probable cause, they’re probably up to no good, or have been involved in something in the past they didn’t take care of, like warrants.
Yes, their are some police out there that shouldn’t have been issued a badge. (no I’m not a cop for those who have nothing better to do than vent about needless junk on here)
Look around you, this place is full of people who are not pulling their weight to make this a better place. And if you are a cop posing like joe citizen making blog entry’s then you need not report for duty. Weak!! Grow thicker skin.
Get back to work, all of you. :)
horse_feathers on January 25 at 9:26 a.m.
We have a gang problem in spokane.
cpd805 on January 25 at 9:27 a.m.
Tatas,
Do you know Mr. Burns? Have you ever met him? You said he has integrity. How do you know? I specifically remember him telling me….to my face….that he will not seek more investigative power and will only look at investigations and not outcomes.
I am not familiar with the case outlined in this story, so I will not defend the officers’ actions other than to say it does not sound like something they would do….I’ve known each for years. In fact, Storch is one of the “whistleblowers” regarding excessive force that many of you previously hailed as a hero for standing up against the “blue wall”.
So, do you think that the officers should be punished given the fact that different witnesses give opposing accounts of the incident? Some allege excessive force…others say no. Burns said he does not understand why the officers were “exonerated” when witness statements said otherwise. Well, other witness statements indicate that it “absolutely did not happen” (as quoted from above).
I do have to call BS on Geear’s statement: “He said officers taunted him on the way to the police station and at the jail as blood poured from his face and covered his shirt.” I know that the jail medical staff would NEVER accept a prisoner with an open cut “pouring” blood. Prisoners with such injuries have to be taken to the hospital and stiched/bandaged up first.
Cheezwhiz on January 25 at 9:29 a.m.
So…. The bottom line is that we are paying a huge salary for the Ombudsman, but it’s illegal for him to do his job? Where has he been with all the other excessive force and corruption? Did he just pick a case that had varying witness testimony to make it look like he is concerned, and useful? Just shows to me that his job is ineffective and a waste of our tax dollars. Just another City worker leaning on his shovel, watching six other City workers leaning on shovels, while one half heartedly digs.
I’ll just sit here and shake my head in disbelief.
Cheezwhiz on January 25 at 9:48 a.m.
cpd805, no one denied that Mr. Greear was injured and bleeding, except you. The witness accounts that were inconsistent could be explained in many ways. One could be that those witnesses could have been fabricated by the police. It was their investigation. Their report. I have never seen an Internal affairs investigation in Spokane that didn’t side with the police. Ever notice that no cop has ever been convicted of anything? Even when they rear end someone, while driving drunk and try to flee the scene, they find a way to exonerate them of any wrong doing. A legal loop hole was found. That officer was reinstated. No charges were filed for editing the video in the Zehm case. etc. etc. etc. No charges have been filed against any cop, other than Olsen, but that jury had to be rigged. I think there may be a little corruption in any and all IA investigations. Brothers in blue.
saveyourtatas on January 25 at 9:58 a.m.
CPD, my family knows Tim Burns very well. We have met with him more than 20 times and traded some 50 emails. We believe our family was outrageously mistreated by Kirkpatrick and 3 cops. Thank God, we were more fortunate than Otto and Shonto and the 12 others.
Tim Burns had his hands tied in our case, but he did send it back for “review”. He knew they were liars, specifically two detectives. However, he can only say three things.
Timely
Effective
Thorough
He is a good and decen man. BUT. He is also a 22 year cop.
We talked with him at length about whether or not he can be objective. He has now proven he can be couraeous.
cpd805 on January 25 at 10:18 a.m.
Misinfo,
You know I love you, but this is the 2nd time you have alluded to a “Detroit” happening here because of the actions of police. This is quite hypocritical of you to say because you have also alluded to the conservatives and “tea party” folk, particularly Sarah Palin, for committing stochastic terrorism regarding the Tuscon shooting.
So, if some nutjob does walk into the PSB and shoots it up…I get to blame you directly?
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/jan/14/sheriff-sets-a-good-exle/?comments#c245114
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/jan/09/lawmaker-targeted/?comments#c241881
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/jan/09/lawmaker-targeted/?comments#c241902
misjustice on January 25 at 10:26 a.m.
It’s a love/hate thingy cpd.
Ozzie was on the teevee this a.m. voicing the same concerns, so is he inciting violence?
Guess you’re a lot like Hawken, still name calling I see?
cpd805 on January 25 at 10:40 a.m.
Tatas….fair enough. You may know him better than I. Like I said, I am not siding with the officers here because I am not familiar with the case. I’m just saying that you can’t punish someone for an accusation unless it can be proven. Conflicting witness accounts proves nothing. It does not prove it happened, nor does it prove it did not happen. Refusing to certify an investigation because he did not like the outcome is outside his purview.
Cheez, way to put words in my mouth. I did not even allude that Geear did not have injuries. I alluded that he did not have an open wound “pouring” blood while at jail booking. That is BS. This just shows that his word is suspect.
You may have never seen an IA investigation that did not side with the officer…..but I have. Actually, I have WRITTEN internal investigations that did not side with the officer (no, I’m not in IA). You also asked: “Ever notice that no cop has ever been convicted of anything?” Nope. I remember DiBartolo being convicted of murder. I remember Bohanek being convicted of assault. I remember multiple officers being convicted of DUI. Even aside from criminal convictions, I also remember in just the past few years several officers being terminated from employment, demoted, or suspended for various reasons….the vast majority of which you would not know about as it was not deemed newsworthy. If you want to confront any statement I make, please take the time to be informed.
cpd805 on January 25 at 10:52 a.m.
MisJ….sorry for my (lack of) humor. Didn’t mean to “name call”.
No, I do not think Ozzie was inciting violence. I don’t think YOU were inciting violence. I know that if something like that were to happen here, it would be the sole responsibility of whomever pulls the trigger.
I just find it funny that you think certain public figures DO incite violence, but turn around and make what some would construe to be similar comments. Its the whole goose/gander thing.
misjustice on January 25 at 10:58 a.m.
Those certain someones dominate the public airwaves. Flattered though that you think I wield that type of influence.
I could see your point if I put a map of precinct offices in cross hairs and uploaded it to my facebook and then tweeted about it non-stop, and posted links to it here…and then had my own ‘reality’ show and killed things and tweeted about that and called for 2nd Amendment remedies because I didn’t like the decisions in recent political contests, and then well, I think you get my point, cpd.
Cheezwhiz on January 25 at 11:05 a.m.
I suppose “pouring” is an opinion and interpretation. Biased, possibly on both sides. I have a neighbor who is a lawyer who represents those who cannot afford a lawyer, but don’t qualify for a Public Defender. All pro bono. I have heard so many stories of abuse by officers that has never been made public. I am sure you have seen the abuse, but will deny. As far as those convictions of officers….. Days gone by. It no longer happens.
Old days….. Good times I remember.
bszottlinger on January 25 at 11:48 a.m.
Cpd805:
Anyone with any background in these matters knew at the time that this Ombudsman “facade” would end up in something like this. I’m surprised it wasn’t earlier. Mr. Burns has no legal authority to do anything and that was pointed out to the Mayor and Council by their legal staff when he was supposedly granted these new “powers”. With all due respect to Mr. Burns he does not have the background or the experience to be in the position he is in, and some of the elements reported in this case demonstrates just that. It does also however demonstrate that there may very well be problems with your internal review process. Mr. Burns, a nice guy I understand, was hired exactly because he is a nice guy and not because he was the most experienced or the best candidate for the job.
Putting the Ombudsman issue aside, I’m’ not sure why you can’t accept the fact that many people question, and rightfully so, what is going on in your organization. Not just citizens but also consultants hired by the city to look into your procedures. I think you might want to take a look at some of the consultants reports. How can anyone within your department justify Chief Nick’s lack of understanding of Garrity in the fire house Destruction of Evidence Case? How can anyone in your department justify Your Chief’s lack of understanding of Garrity in the Torok shooting? How can anyone in your department justify not pursuing criminal charges in the Hensley case? How can you or anyone justify the Chief firing of Torok for the DUI instead of the Hit and Run actions? It goes on and on, and the fact is they can’t. When I learn that some of your guild officials may have been subject to discipline for excessive force, and lying to supervisors it makes me wonder why the outstanding rank and file won’t stand up and help solve this problem, can you explain that?
Right now you have the Creach family legitimately questioning the investigation of their fathers death. They aren’t the only ones looking into it, a group of community leaders with no ties to the family is also. Your organization can defend Officer Thompson all it wants, but look where that has gotten you, only to the point of some small changes that should have been recognized and corrected a long time before Zehm even happened.
Would you as an individual officer demand right away, if not requested, to submit to intoxicant testing as outlined in the Critical Incident Protocol? Some how I think you would, so there would be no question.
All of this junk hurts you guys, can’t you realize that? When are you and others going to step up to the plate.
saveyourtatas on January 25 at 12:34 p.m.
The police will never step up to the plate. The ONLY EXCEPTION IS OZZIE, who is trying to get progress while keeping his troops happy. I want to address Tim Burns.
Tim Burns is qualified…well qualified. Although my family had a very bad experience with the police, and we were frustrated by the outcome of the Ombudsman…we know that Mr. Burns has both good intent and skill in the realm he is tasked. Normally, our family would be very angry at all cops, but we are not. We think that Tim Burns did everything in his power to find the truth about my husbands complaint. We knew when Tim was frustrated with McCabe and Kirkpatrick. Especially when we got the dismissive letter from Kirkpatrick. That was a huge bummer. Ironically, my husband saw Kirkpatrick the very next day over breakfast at the Spokane club. She was jogging by the club as he parked and he was polite, much to his credit.
The problem is that the Ombudsman does not have the requisite powers to conduct oversight in an effective manner. It is our job, as citizens, to make sure he gets the proper subpoena power and access to all interviews and information.
Breean Beggs and the people at PJALS & SPARC are doing that as we speak. Tim Connor and Kiondra Bullock…..Terri Anderson and atty Mike Cronin. They are committed.
Tim Burns is a good Ombudsman and a skilled former cop.
He proved his mettle and now we see how aloof and condescending Kirkpatrick is. She might even be competing soon for most despised local “leader”. However, Steve Tucker holds that title and he has a huge lead. Almost insurmountable.
bszottlinger on January 25 at 12:46 p.m.
Tatas:
I respectfully disagree, regarding Mr. Burn’s qualifications. Realistically though, my friend “lewis” could be the Ombudsman and it would not make a darn bit of difference!
BitofBacon on January 25 at 12:50 p.m.
Lewis as Ombudsman?? Now there’s a laugh!
bszottlinger on January 25 at 12:52 p.m.
I kinda thought so, but its true!
saveyourtatas on January 25 at 1:21 p.m.
I know what you are saying Zott (Brad)…I suppose we just disagree. When it comes down to it, Burns will “stand up”. Maybe he is not Jerry Spence or Perry Mason or CSI or whomever you might prefer. (Dershowitz). We just know that he worked hard and he made enemies with certain police. he really fought for the truth and he simply got beeyotch slapped by Kirkpatrick. It showed how inneffective the office is until we give Burns subpoena power and specific acces to all. Wuthrich and the unions will fight tooth and nail. They hate the truth.
cpd805 on January 25 at 2:38 p.m.
Brad, I have disagreed with lots of leadership aspects within the department, and I have posted them here in the past. For instance, you are preaching to the choir when you say Kirkpatrick should have fired Thoma (not Torok) for the hit and run. Whether the charge was dismissed or not, my understanding is that it can still be determined to have happened in the internal investigation. It is a crime of moral turpitude and is grounds for dismissal. She missed the boat here.
Regarding their understanding of Garrity, I’m not sure what your understanding of Garrity is. You have mentioned at least twice that Garrity statements can be used in a federal criminal trial. OK, under what circumstances, and can you cite a case where this has happened? I don’t doubt you have probably dealt with Garrity more than I, but I can’t see how a coerced statement can be used to self-incriminate a person, State or Federal.
I do not oppose questions being asked or issues being raised regarding the process of internal or criminal investigations. I just get tired of certain people in this forum who spout off factually incorrect information as if it were the gospel truth. If I am wrong on a legal point and you know better, I would expect you to correct me as well.
Lastly, you are correct. No matter who the ombudsman is, without teeth in the position, it is largely symbolic.
cpd805 on January 25 at 3:41 p.m.
Brad, the only thing I can think of is a charge for perjury, false statements, or obstruction of justice. Garrity is a 5th amendment issue and the 5th Amendment does not protect you from lying in a statement. Is that the crux of what you are saying?
bszottlinger on January 25 at 4:41 p.m.
Cpd805:
Please forgive my mistake regarding Torok and Thoma it was completely unintentional. You should take a look at the case below from the 11th, and if you want take a look at several other cases from different Districts.
The fact is cpd Garrity statements can be used in Federal Criminal Proceedings, Civil Litigations against the officer and the department, and against other officers. Depending upon the circumstances possibly in a State criminal case not associated with the one at hand.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1349497.html
* take note Cert. Denied
bszottlinger on January 25 at 4:43 p.m.
In essence yes. But it goes beyond that, and sometimes you folks don’t completely understand the ramifications.
bszottlinger on January 25 at 4:52 p.m.
Largely symbolic is an understatement. :)
Ed Byrnes on January 25 at 5:12 p.m.
What we need is a process of reviewing LLE misconduct that is independent and has credibility with the citizenry. Although the research I am writing up about citizen review of LLE does not offer an assurance of decreased LLE misconduct or OIS’s a citizen review panel does increase the trust of civilians in LLE. Trust is desperately in need of restoration in our community so that would be the benefit of an independent and credible review process.
cpd805 I am glad to read your words again, when all of the vitriol comes out, and some other LLE members and civilians postings warrant it sometimes, I recall how you engage in constructive dialogue.
Ed
cpd805 on January 25 at 5:12 p.m.
Thanks for that link Brad. This is similar to the Bunge case out of Chicago. Garrity and the 5th Amendment do not protect against false statements or perjury.
I know that Garrity statements can be used in criminal proceedings for perjury and false statements, against ANOTHER officer or person, and civil litigation. I’m wondering…anything else?
cpd805 on January 25 at 5:21 p.m.
Ed…good to converse with you again.
You hit the nail on the head. There is a need for trust to be restored. I still submit that the majority of the public has that trust, but that is not enough. It should be above reproach. You also are correct that a better process will not necessarily decrease misconduct or OIS. It won’t decrease misconduct because a certain segment of society, including LEO’s are predisposed to dishonesty (weed them out). It will not decrease OIS because they are largely predicated on the actions of the person LEO’s are dealing with. It is just good policy.
D Statler on January 25 at 5:22 p.m.
I liked the picture with the victims face all raspberried up and a his ear all swollen and scratched.Headwounds always bleed profusely.Having gravel removed from your face by your girlfriend had to be a treat also.I’ll bet that hurt very bad.I also liked the fact that several brutality reports were filed by eye witnesses that the victim didn’t even know about. I know it is hard to fathom one of your friends making a mistake.These cops clearly excersized the heavy handedness that we have began to expect here.The Ombudsman is a waist of our time and tax dollars!
bszottlinger on January 25 at 5:34 p.m.
Cpd:
Local criminal cases depending upon the circumstances. What I’m trying to explain is that it is obvious to people from the outside looking in that there is a problem and it’s not only costing credibility but money. In my view the majority of the problem is with leadership, and not the majority of the rank and file. I do however also believe, as I suspect you may, that not unlike other departments with problems there is a small group of cowboys that have managed to gain control and the Chief does not have the ability to handle them.
At some point the majority is going to have to realize, as has happened in other agencies, that the time is coming and changes will be made. Again those changes can come about with limited battles or full fledged wars depending upon how you folks react.
Ebyrnes is an advocate of a citizens police review board type of system, and that’s worked in other areas. I’m not so sure and I know how difficult a sell that will be. But it could very well come, and its time to face it.
In my view local law enforcement’s problems go beyond the need for oversight of officer involved incidents, and I’m not alone in that regard. The Zehm case and the Creach case are but two examples.
bszottlinger on January 25 at 5:38 p.m.
Cpd:
One other thing. If I’m wrong about something you point it out and if I am I’ll own up to it.
Cheezwhiz on January 25 at 5:52 p.m.
You gotta wonder where that gravel in his face came from, if Greear “smashed his head against the patrol car,” as one of the detectives stated. It shows that someone lied, but since it is legal for police to lie in their reports, I’d guess I know who it was.
Maybe that should be the first thing that needs to be changed. Automatic termination for lying in a police report, as well as criminal charges. That would be a good first step toward regaining the public trust. Actual charges and convictions would be another good step. I don’t believe that the Prosecutor position should be an elected job. It’s too important of a job for the generally uninformed and indifferent public to decide. It should be a position for someone with a lawyer background, not a police background.
Taking responsibility for mistakes, abuse, or just plain murder, by officers would help too. The Ombudsman was, in theory, a good way to regain public trust, but he needs to have actual power to right wrongs. How about making it public knowledge as to every case that passes through his office. Wouldn’t that be a heck of a way to make people trust the SPD?
The whole management system in all of the police departments in Spokane County are only concerned with limiting liability. The Mayor is a party to it. We need a complete overhaul to restore public trust and to limit liability from the actions of the bad cops. Bad cops and the management need to go away.
Cheezwhiz on January 25 at 6:08 p.m.
bszottlinger, I disagree with your statement that it’s a small group of cowboys. It goes beyond that in the field officers. I have been in business for many years, and I have seen a group of happy employees turn bitter from the anger of one or two employees. Anger spreads like cancer, and you have to cut the cancer out. Get rid of the bitter and angry ones. Takes a long time for the rest to get back to being happy.
I know that there is anger in our police departments for many reasons, including their benefits being reduced, and pay freezes. There is also the steroid issue, stress of layoffs, management, cop killings in other towns, etc.
My point is that the cancer has spread to the majority of officers, and there needs to be a huge change to stop their abuse and shoot first attitude. They are taking revenge out on the citizens, who they view as their subordinates. It would take layoffs, firings, drug testing, and major management changes. It’s very hard to ever trust a dog that bites, and I believe the whole SPD and SCSO have been biting too many citizens, too often.
cpd805 on January 25 at 7:56 p.m.
Cheez,
I think you brought up some very valid points in your last two posts. For instance, there should be and is automatic termination for lying in a police report. Remember the name John Elam? He was fired for saying he was wearing a seatbelt during a collision when it was determined that he wasn’t. This may seem like a small issue…seatbelt…but lying is lying whether it is for a seatbelt or assault. We are in agreement here.
Taking responsibility for mistakes. If an officer is wrong, he/she should fall on their sword. We are in agreement here.
The LE leadership, City leadership at that, is primarily interested in limiting liability….that is the pocketbook we’re talking about here. We are in agreement here.
However, I do respectfully disagree with the assertion that the “cancer” has spread to the majority of officers. I can say this with some certainty as I personally know over 350 of the over 500 local LEOs. When I think of officers that should not be wearing the badge, some specific names come to mind. These names are on the minds of many of the other officers who work with them, and they have a general reputation as being reckless, lax in following proper procedures, and giving the others bad names. Getting rid of them is tricky legally. I have seen several officers fired in the past 5 years that have been reinstated during appeal. That is not a rank and file problem,,,,that is a leadership and procedural problem.
bszottlinger on January 25 at 8:47 p.m.
Cpd805:
I agree with you. Then you must understand citizen frustrations with the way things are. The question is what is the best way to begin the process of correcting those issues. One of my big frustrations is the inability to publicly admit mistakes, and even though I understand that in some cases a lack of forthrightness is out of concern for litigation, in the long run it pays dividends. The Zehm case is a perfect example. As you well know a number of changes in procedures and protocol quietly took place without anyone admitting there were some very improper things that had been done. In the Creach case the same thing will follow. Would it not be better to come out and say “Yes we did do an awful job and we will see to it that we improve”, and then demonstrate to the public the steps you are taking to improve?
There is no question it is difficult to weed out the bad apples, difficult but not impossible, and most of the public has little understanding of the difficulties. I won’t go into the litany of mistakes Chief Kirkpatrick has made and she is not alone in that regard, but those mistakes have cost you folks in credibility, and taxpayers in their pocketbooks.
The media cycle on the most recent cases will run, and many citizens will forget what transpired, but not all, and that is what should most worry you and others. Wouldn’t it be nice on the next series to be in a position that there is nearly complete public confidence in the law enforcement reaction?
Cheezwhiz on January 25 at 8:57 p.m.
cpd805, I have met many cops throughout my life. Some in Portland, some in Georgia, some in the Seattle area, but mostly here. I seem to collect traffic tickets and have had the police called about me twice. Once was to provide support when my ex wife moved out of my house, and the other was when I booted my ex girlfriend out of my house.
The ex wife was in the Northern Atlanta area. That cop was more than helpful and understanding, but firm on the fact that he wasn’t going to let me talk to her. I respected him.
The ex girlfriend was in Spokane and it was a different story. There were five cops in my front yard and two in the back. They ridiculed me, taunted me, and were just down right unprofessional. There was no violence or any kind of anger, till they created it. (the anger anyway, since there wasn’t any violence, except what I was plotting in my boiling brain) Among the five in the front was two female cops, and they were kind, understanding, and professional. The two in back were just as rude, hostile, and unprofessional, as the ones in front. They were looking for a confrontation. Escalating it to shouting and anger from myself. Five of those seven cops had the “cancer.”
About those traffic tickets…. I have had a ton. In every case in Spokane, the cop has been hostile, rude, and unprofessional. It’s just a stinkin ticket. They have no reason to be rude and unprofessional. Write me a ticket and I’ll say sorry and be on my way. Most tickets have been on rural roads, like the Palouse Highway, or Pullman highway. I don’t have any car wrecks in my past, and I don’t speed through school zones, so who cares. Never even hit a deer. (knocking on wood) Lately I have noticed that the police side step to my driver’s window with their hand on their pistol. Way to make someone edgy! Especially these days.
My point is that only in Spokane, are the police looking for a confrontation. There is a “cancer” and it’s obvious when they have as many controversial shootings as there are here. They are angry. I may be wrong about it being the majority, but it is the majority of the ones I have had the pleasure of meeting. It’s as if I look like a drug user or gang banger. In my opinion, I look like a normal, hard working guy.
Do you perhaps, have a view from a different angle and not notice the hostility? Just maybe? You guys need to show your friendly side to each other. Very rarely do I see the friendly side. I wouldn’t be blogging for revenge on this site, if the police had friendly and professional encounters with me. I am man enough to admit that.
D Statler on January 26 at 6:55 a.m.
Geese Cheez, You are kinda an outlaw! LOL I too have met some terrific officers in the Sherrif’s ranks over the years. I grew up in the Valley.I use to know alot of the officers as family members of friends and graduates from our area.These homegrown fellas seemed better than the current group.They too knew many of the locals from growing up in the area.That tended to bring compassion to the job they performed. Spokane has never been Mayberry. Even back in the old days,there were still a few LEO issues.VERY FEW! We always stood behind and respected our local poice.
I wonder if we were to hire only Spokane graduates to our police ranks. If things would get better? Having deep roots in our neighborhoods would spawn the personalized service and compassion missing here. Bringing in these police chiefs from big cities with completely different upbringings and lack of knowledge of Spokane’s history has not helped us. Alot of the problems and issues here are unique to our area’s historically social issues.
The prosecutor’s office is the most powerful in the local government.It appears to be one of the most corrupt per capita also. There are no checks and balances to control them in place. I am not sure how Tucker got re-elected.Voting down party lines seems to come to mind.We had some good alternatives during the last election.
I keep asking where our County Commissioners are? Why they are not stepping up and asking these tough questions? Those controlling the purse strings really do have the final say on the matter.We appear to need alot of new “Old Blood” elected and hired in our ranks from top to bottom.
Ron_the_Cop on January 26 at 9:27 a.m.
To All:
Just surfacing from the weeds for a moment. This is the discussion that needs to be taking place on the front page of this newspaper and in the Council Chambers. Why not?
Answer that and you know what’s needs to be done.
Det. Ron Wright (Retired)
eagleproducer on January 26 at 10:24 a.m.
Glen Beck must have written the word “stochastic” on his chalk board recently…
Cheezwhiz on January 26 at 10:41 a.m.
Ron, I am not the brightest guy when it comes to hints. I am also not an activist, so I am not going to stand in front of the court house with hateful signs. Can you spell out what you think should happen to a dopey guy? I’d like to be a part of that process. I have tried to go to the Tucker Facebook site, but I have to be a member of Facebook and that is difficult, for technical reasons I won’t go into very deep. To summarize: I was a member of Facebook, but haven’t logged in for many years, so my account was deleted, but when I try to create a new account, it says I am already a member. I don’t know if I believe that impeaching Tucker is enough to fix the problems we have. I believe it needs to go way beyond that.
Undooly, I agree. Hiring cops from big cities just brought their methods of heavy handedness and corruption to our Mayberry. Really, I don’t think of myself as an outlaw. I do dumb things that get me in minor trouble, but I don’t think anyone needs to board up their windows and bring their kids inside, if they live next door to me. Seems to me that the purse strings are the problem. The focus for our police is to make money through fines and not to lose any through lawsuits. The method they use to keep from losing that money seems to be the wrong method. That method is corruption and cover up. It would be much better to lay down rules and enforce them, to keep tragic, unnecessary events from happening.
cpd805 on January 26 at 4:11 p.m.
Meghann,
I happened to read an e-mail today (sent to your editor) by Steven Sherman, yes, the same Steven Sherman that you quoted in the above story. He says it contains “quotes and words that I did not use”, and he says his words were “distorted”. He closed the e-mail by saying: “I have complete respect for the Spokane Police and regret saying anything to your reporter”.
bszottlinger on January 26 at 7:46 p.m.
Cpd805:
Is there a conflict between Sgt McCabe’s reports documenting what Sherman said to him and what the reporter states was said to her? If there is a conflict that’s one thing but if there isn’t a conflict between what he told Sgt, McCabe and what he told Ms. Cuniff that’s another thing all together. If you get my drift!
cpd805 on January 27 at 12:17 a.m.
I get your drift. I do not know what he said in the IA interview….don’t have access to that. I just know what was printed, and what Mr. Sherman’s e-mail says.
My point is that you can not necessarily believe what is in print here at the SR. I have mentioned this weeks ago in another forum that I personally have been misquoted in the SR as well. Whether intentional or just sloppy…..bad journalism. I read in another forum that Ozzie is also upset with the SR over the same type of issue.
bszottlinger on January 27 at 7:56 a.m.
Cpd805:
We all make mistakes, I made one once. :) I too have been misquoted, and then again I have been quoted correctly and shouldn’t have said what I said. When a reporter interviews someone it is not unlike when a cop interviews someone. Because you are dealing with two different people you will at times have two different interpretations about what was said. Believe me, I have read a lot of police reports that have gotten it wrong, as well as a lot of press reports that were wrong. In most cases there was no malicious intent.
I have found over the years that the print media generally does a better job of getting it right then the electronic media, primarily because of a less stringent deadline and lack of need for a hurry up 30 second story. When I read a media report I always consider that it isn’t right, just like when I have read police reports, something everyone should consider.
This hate/hate thing between local law enforcement and the media does no one any good. But it hurts you folks more then the media, and you have to understand that the power of the press is significantly more then that of law enforcement.
A good start would be for both parties, as hard as it is, to admit they have made a mistake and move on from there.
Ron_the_Cop on January 27 at 2:39 p.m.
Good points BSZ:-)
The media does have a role to play to inform/educate the people on significant issues of the day so that they can hold their elected/appointed officials accountable if they CHOOSE.
This is where I fault the S-R for not holding a fire to Tucker’s feet and prevent him from dropping his egg and quickly retreating to his rabbit.
This man earns $140K per year and in my opinion he does little to earn it. He more than anyone else in the LE community could hold LE accountable for their mistakes and mediocre work product that in the end cost us taxpayers more money in the end.
Ron_the_Cop on January 27 at 4:04 p.m.
ooops
rabbit hole
meghannc on January 27 at 8:42 p.m.
Hi cpd805, I saw Mr. Sherman’s email and am unsure what he feels was misrepresented in the story. I reviewed my notes, and everything in the story matches the notes and my memory of the conversation.
In fact, there was a lot that I didn’t include in the article. Mr. Sherman told me he had moved here from Detroit and used to work in a position that showed him how easy it can be to hide abuse. We talked for several minutes at his home, and I took notes through the entire conversation and requested his name and phone number for future reference. He told me he would see if he could find others who also witnessed the incident.
I called him the night before the story ran and left a message saying it was going to publish, and that if he had any questions or concerns to please call me. I have not heard from him, but I’m hopeful I’ll speak with him soon.
I pride myself on accuracy and believe I have a reputation as a solid reporter. I am hopeful that any mistakes can be brought specifically to my attention, so that a correction can be issued if need be. That has not happened in this case.
Ron_the_Cop on January 28 at 1:07 a.m.
Good for you Meghann. Mr. Clouse could take some pointers from you:-)
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/jan/27/sheriff-critical-s-r-stands-behind-story/?comments#c251600
cpd805 on January 28 at 3:40 a.m.
Thank you the response Meghann. I know his e-mail did not get specific, and hopefully he will if and when he speaks with you again.
bszottlinger on January 28 at 9:28 a.m.
Meghann & cpd805:
Now that’s the way you do it. I would expect that one of the two of you buy the other lunch. Well cpd805, it kinda sounds like I was drifting in the right direction.
Meghann brings up something that reminds me of some research I did for a relative regarding a couple of civil cases in Spokane, that I find ironic. There were several years where police officers were required to retain their case notes ( notes they take during the course of an interview and investigation) until after the final disposition of the case. The retention requirement was pursuant to RCW 42.56 the Washington State Public Records Act. Some jurisdictions complied with the Statue and others did not. Spokane City and County did not. Case notes in a number of instances throughout the country have been subpoenaed by a plaintiffs attorney, or a criminal defense attorney prior to trial and have shown a distinct conflict between the notes and the actual police reports, which obviously became an issue at trial.
Recently (last couple of years) law enforcement was able to successfully lobby for a change in the statue that no longer requires police officers to retain their case notes. In other words an officer now can destroy his/her notes they took during a case without fear of having violated RCW 42.56.
What I find ironic is that although there is no statutory requirement for News Reporters to retain their notes the vast majority of them do for a good period of time in order to put themselves in a position like Meghann just did by referring to her notes to support the story she wrote.
I noticed in the Zehm case one of the Detectives was asked to produce his/her notes and responded by stating they had been destroyed, which would be statutorily expectable now, but would not have been at that time. In the Creach case I would be willing to bet that if Mr. Wahl requests or subpoenas the officers notes he will find that the notes have been destroyed. I guess my point is cpd805 if there is nothing to hide in the case notes why are they destroyed? I just don’t think it looks good for law enforcement, and it puts LEOs in a position when they are on the stand to have to explain that the accuracy of the report they typed or had transcribed several days prior to the interview or observation is based on their memory of what was said or observed and notes they took at the time of the interview or observation. Then when the plaintiff’s attorney or defense attorney asks him/her “Where are those notes?” and the officer responds “Well I got rid of them.” It just doesn’t look good to a jury.
dagney on January 28 at 10:47 a.m.
What is going on in this town? Do police get away with everything? Are there no honest, thorough, and timely investigations? What happened to our 4th amendment protections, our individual rights? I am appalled at the treatment of this guy and how long someone has to wait for justice … if it ever comes.
Some folks need to get their acts together … better yet, some folks need to be fired.
kennyhuston on January 28 at 2:29 p.m.
It’s for my protection in the event of a lawsuit arising from alleged errors and/or omissions - that’s why I save my notes AND document the file. The only - and I mean ONLY REASON someone would destroy their notes is if there were inconsistencies or differences from the notes to the actual written reports! I myself retain every possible bit of documentation to support my position. The destroying of notes to me demonstrates something shady might be going on and would definitely raise a HUGE RED FLAG!!!
bszottlinger on January 28 at 7:14 p.m.
K.H.:
I don’t believe it is always a case of someone trying to hide something. I think it is more of a case of poor management and bad practice.