Spokane7
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June 29, 2011 in City
Officer’s text message ruled a factor in pedestrian fatality
A Spokane police officer who hit and killed an intoxicated pedestrian in his patrol car in January was typing a message into his onboard computer just before the crash.
Officer Gordon Ennis told investigators he sent the message to another officer just before he struck John A. Van Curler at West Montgomery Avenue while southbound on North Monroe Street on Jan. 30.
That detail was released publicly for the first time in a report this month from Spokane police Ombudsman Tim Burns, who concluded that inattentive driving was a factor in the tragedy but agreed with prosecutors that no charges against Ennis were warranted. Prosecutors were aware of the text message when evaluating the case.
Burns called the crash “just one of those regrettable situations.”
“This officer’s going to have to live with that the rest of his life as well, and that’s a hard thing to live with, I suspect,” Burns said.
Van Curler, 52, was pronounced dead at a hospital after the crash. His blood-alcohol level was .371, nearly five times what is considered legally drunk.
Ennis’ inattention contributed to the crash, Burns said, but “the sad truth is the guy who was hit had an extremely high blood-alcohol level and that was clearly a contributing factor as well.”
Ennis returned to work the week of the crash and was exonerated of wrongdoing in an internal investigation by the Spokane Police Department. Burns reviewed the investigation and deemed it timely, thorough and objective in a report submitted at a recent meeting of the Spokane Public Safety Committee.
Ennis, an eight-year veteran, was driving between 34 mph and 39 mph in a 30 mph zone when he struck Van Curler about 10 p.m. Ennis did not have his emergency lights and siren on – the call to which he was responding was not an emergency, it was to back up another officer for “trouble unknown.”
He voluntarily submitted a blood sample the night of the crash. Results showed no signs of drugs or alcohol.
“He chose to do it and I think it speaks again to his character and … truthfulness and forthrightness,” Burns said.
Ennis told police he didn’t see Van Curler before the crash but said he had typed a quick message to another officer regarding the call for service he was responding to. Investigators found no record of the message in Ennis’ computer, and the other officer never received it. Investigators aren’t sure if the crash prevented the message from transmitting, but Ennis is adamant he typed it, said Spokane County sheriff’s Cpl. Dave Thornburg, who investigated the crash.
Law enforcement officers are allowed to use mobile devices for work-related purposes while they are driving. Spokane police policy allows the use of the “mobile digital devices” as long as officers remain attentive drivers.
But the very presence of the device requires multitasking, Burns said.
“Our officers are expected to multitask. In this case, that’s exactly what he was doing,” Burns said. “It cannot not be a contributing factor. The primary cause? No. But certainly a contributing factor.”
Investigators say Van Curler was wearing a dark blue jacket and jeans and was either walking westbound in the crosswalk or near the crosswalk when he was struck. But they believe Ennis had the green light, Thornburg said.
Van Curler was struck by two cars while walking in 2006, and in one case was cited for being in the roadway.
His family described him as an alcoholic who had been living with his stepmother and collecting aluminum cans for money.
Human trafficking suspects released 
Dazzeetrader11 on June 29 at 12:38 a.m.
I wonder what might happen if a regular civilian driver who was found to be clean and sober hit and killed a pedestrian ( drunk or not) while the driver was texting and driving over the speed limit. Would he be exonerated too? Just a question. No accusation.
greenlibertarian on June 29 at 1:47 a.m.
Typing while driving is prima facie evidence of being majorly distracted, when in such case the officer runs over a ped, that’s unreasonable.
idahocity on June 29 at 5:29 a.m.
this is not a banana republic…yet. police are still civilians, public servants.
rosehips on June 29 at 5:47 a.m.
wow, aren’t cops taught that texting while driving is a really bad idea. That’s why they made it ILLEGAL.
Orphan on June 29 at 6:33 a.m.
Just another example of law enforcement living under a different standard a much lower standard I might add. Every time an officer is not treated exactly like a citizen would be it drives a wedge between us and them.
I have no doubt that I would have recieved several moving violations and my trip downtown would not have been nearly as pleasant as as his was.
SPD isnt even willing to discipline Ennis, what a joke that is.
Once again we need audio/video recording devices on every officer so that we know what happened each and every time bad things happen.
Scoutster on June 29 at 6:39 a.m.
The victim was a chronic alcoholic, so his tolerance is higher than most, therefore his blood alcohol baseline will be higher than most.
This man was killed by a driver who was texting and speeding and our Ombudsman thinks killing the guy is punishment enough?
Only in Spokanistan.
Gato on June 29 at 6:45 a.m.
All who make fun of someone’s photo should be required to post their own driver’s license picture, so everyone can speculate about their hidden lives.
Byrdie714 on June 29 at 6:54 a.m.
What a joke!
DickAdams on June 29 at 6:56 a.m.
Double standards. Pure and simple.
detroitdude on June 29 at 7:08 a.m.
“That detail was released publicly for the first time in a report this month from Spokane police Ombudsman Tim Burns, who concluded that inattentive driving was a factor in the tragedy but agreed with prosecutors that no charges against Ennis were warranted.”
How very typical and par for the course in Spokane.
“Van Curler, 52, was pronounced dead at a hospital after the crash. His blood-alcohol level was .371, nearly five times what is considered legally drunk.”
So it’s OK to run them over when they are really drunk? I mean whether the guy was intoxicated or not, it is not as if HE jumped in front of the car to get hit.
“Investigators found no record of the message in Ennis’ computer, and the other officer never received it.”
And obviously that raises no ones eyebrows at the police station either.
“Law enforcement officers are allowed to use mobile devices for work-related purposes while they are driving. Spokane police policy allows the use of the “mobile digital devices” as long as officers remain attentive drivers.”
And all this proves is that cops are no more qualified as drivers than you and I. They just don’t have to pay the price when they kill someone, never mind all these jerkasses who will pull you over and write you a ticket for NOT KILLING anyone.
“Van Curler was struck by two cars while walking in 2006, and in one case was cited for being in the roadway.His family described him as an alcoholic who had been living with his stepmother and collecting aluminum cans for money.”
Good job marginalizing the victim as well.
Once again, another fiasco could have been avoided if all cops were required to wear audio and video recorders on their person. I’d really like to know why they can’t make this simple thing happen. They got money for beanbag guns, but they don’t have money for cameras? This is just sickening, and this Mr. Burns is a total milquetoast and obviously ineffective.
Codywiench on June 29 at 7:34 a.m.
I think most cops are arguably better drivers than Joe Blow who is texting while cruising down the freeway. What else do you people want happen to the cop? It’s a tragedy for both parties but an accident nonetheless. It’s not like the cop set out to kill the drunk man in the street.
Orphan on June 29 at 7:38 a.m.
Well said Detriot
Orphan on June 29 at 7:48 a.m.
Codywiench Most people dont set out to kill someone in a crosswalk the difference is most people get a ticket or three.
From my observations I would question that Cops were any better or worse drivers than the general public. Actually I hardly ever see a Cop come to a full and complete stop at stop signs. Because of the Cops virtual immunity from tickets I think they develop sloppy driving habits both on duty and off.
Justsayin' on June 29 at 7:49 a.m.
In answer to the above question about recording equipment, I suggest the police guild would represent the police in protesting such devices.
Just sayin’
lewis8457 on June 29 at 7:55 a.m.
just another lesson on our safety if you see a police car just wait until he passes to cross the street. If you see one on the street drop your coffee cup and hold your hands high so he cant think you have a rock or pop bottle in your hand.
Remember we have no civil liberties in Washington be careful out there SPD killing season is approaching fast.
zodiy on June 29 at 7:57 a.m.
Regardless of whether cops are better drivers than most, driving requires looking at the road and your surroundings. Texting of any sort generally requires looking at something else. Common sense (which apparently isn’t so common after all) dictates that you shouldn’t do one while doing the other.
Even if you want to argue that it’s possible to text without looking at what you’re texting, go take a look at the Mythbusters episode on talking on the phone while driving—they found that even with a hands-free device, the sheer distraction was actually as bad as or worse than if you were drunk driving. Now add in that you’re not talking, you’re physically doing something, possibly trying to focus on typing without looking…not hard to guess that that’s got to be even worse.
de3 on June 29 at 8:00 a.m.
Since police officer texting while driving is perfectly legal, the rest of us must now run in fear anytime we see the police drive by.
In the case of SPD, they can text while driving and kill people, or just shoot them - there is never a penalty.
Byrdie714 on June 29 at 8:02 a.m.
Codywiench wrote: “I think most cops are arguably better drivers than Joe Blow who is texting while cruising down the freeway.”
Actually I feel safer with deaf drivers than I do with hearing drivers. Why?
Because deaf people use their eyes when driving whereas hearing people rely on their ears.
People that rely on their eyes when driving are safer than those that rely on their hearing.
SpokyDaBear on June 29 at 8:16 a.m.
Cool, The Spokane police got another drunk off the streets. But I question their methods.
jddavis on June 29 at 8:34 a.m.
“It cannot not be a contributing factor. The primary cause? No. But certainly a contributing factor.”
What?
eagleproducer on June 29 at 8:44 a.m.
In the civil procedures to follow, Ennis’ negligence will be seen as the “proximal cause” of the victims injuries and the city will pay a HUGE settlement.
voice_of_reason on June 29 at 9:19 a.m.
I used to be a Policeman. I left the profession and chose another career path largely because of reasons such as this.
Many of the laws, rules, and regulations that must be enforced are ridiculous. I don’t need the police, the government, or anyone else telling me exactly how to live my life … my wife does well enough on her own.
Although I was not an officer in Spokane, both where I was, and to a much, much greater extent here, those in uniform are held to a different standard…and it is most definitely not a “higher” one. It seems that the City Government and the Guild has taken basic rights of the citizens and thrown them out the door. Spokane has turned back the clock, soon we will be living in early 20th century Germany, Russia, etc.
jddavis on June 29 at 9:38 a.m.
Detroit—on target!
valleyman on June 29 at 9:41 a.m.
The fact you people can’t even read a news article and get your comments factually accurate or avoid putting the police down is proof enough to me your rants lack anything worthy of paying attention to.
Fact: He was using his car’s mobile computer to send a message via his computer-aided dispatch not a cell phone.
Fact: Police officers are required to take and PASS extremely vigorous driving tests administered under stress driving conditions. These courses known in most agencies as EVOC (Emergency Vehicle Operations Courses) are designed to make the police better drivers than the public writ large. (So, sorry Orphan)
Now some observations…
1) Maria - does saying a police officer looks like Angelina Jolie make some point or is it just another one of your hollow attempts to put people down you disagree with or don’t like? You really need to be more respectful of people.
2) Detroit dude - So what I get from your rant is you’d rather deny the police less-lethal devices such as bean bag guns to give them all thousand-dollar personal cameras? Yeah… that will work great when you have taken away all their tools but their guns and their fists to give them cameras… I would wager shooting would go up in a drastic fashion.
3) Scoutster - I’d say let he who has not committed a traffic infraction or had a mental lapse while driving cast the first stone. You’ve never in your life sped? You’ve never in your life texted or made/received that cell phone call? How many of you believe it’s ok to go between 1-5 miles per hour over the posted speed because the police won’t pull you over for that?
This thread is another perfect example of a bunch of people harping on a situation they know very little about. In our world, guilty people go free daily because of juries and courts. Here due-process was exercised and the police officer was exonerated. A life was lost and that is tragic and nothing will take that back or change that. For many of you to make this solely about the police however lacks any intellectual or moral honesty.
mrd on June 29 at 9:48 a.m.
Does the Spokane area seem to have more police problems than other areas?
liberal_in_right_wing_land on June 29 at 10:01 a.m.
Nice, so the guy admitted to speeding and texting while driving and he is given a slap on the wrist on sent on his way.
No wonder the police have NO respect in the community anymore. Any normal civilian would still be sitting in the Spokane County Jail right now facing as many charges as possible for killing a man, speeding and texting while driving. But, if you are an officer of the law…..you can do whatever you want.
Perfect example of “Do as I say, don’t do as I do.”
PetroniusArbiter on June 29 at 10:05 a.m.
Travelling 35 mph in 30 mph zone and texting while hurrying home after getting a call about a noise outside and the teetotaller private citizen has a non-fatal accident. How would the Chief want the officer to handle that situation?
oldgraymare on June 29 at 10:22 a.m.
Wow, speeding, texting and they make the victim the scape goat, how sad. To talk about how the officer will have to live with this the rest of his life…. really ,,,, too bad the victim doesn’t have that option! Did anyone check his personal cell phone for text messages at time of accident, perhaps his texting was not official in nature
davidw on June 29 at 10:34 a.m.
FYI — Several comments that strayed way beyond the issues of this case have been deleted throughout the morning.
I’m mentioning this because some commenters have responded to some of the personal attacks that have since been deleted and am trying to minimize any confusion that may arise as a result of that.
Please keep comments on point.
David Wasson, deputy city editor
jddavis on June 29 at 10:38 a.m.
Valleyman—
Sure he wasn’t on a cell phone…he was on a laptop type device. So cops go through specialized driving classes…so what? I went through similar courses in the military and as a fireman / ambulance driver…doesn’t make me so special I would not be distracted. Speaking of distracted, he was wasn’t he?
The public may not know all the details, but it seems we know enough to form an opinion about speeding, using electronic devices, and responding to a call without using lights/sirens. The point is here, the cop made the error(s) in driving and as a result, a man is dead.
Thoreau on June 29 at 10:47 a.m.
Wow. SPD needs an overhaul. They admit wrongdoing, but there is no consequence for the wrongdoer.
I look at each police incident independently, and usually I empathize with the cops.
Not this time.
MrNatural on June 29 at 11:12 a.m.
I don’t have anything against Spokane’s finest (except for the Choirboy Guild)…but has anyone out there ever noticed how often they see a cop using a cell phone while driving…I seem to observe it quite often.
This seems to be a tragic accident where it is quite possible that neither person was watching what they were doing…
Diana on June 29 at 11:30 a.m.
Valleyboy:
Fact: He should have pulled over before using his computer.
Fact: Speeding and taking his eyes off the road led to a tragic and unnecessary death.
greenlibertarian on June 29 at 11:41 a.m.
Valleyman ridiculously defends clearly illegal and egregious conduct by the officer involved in a killing.
Pathetic.
Almost as pathetic as our non-Ombudsman Burns.
93bird on June 29 at 11:42 a.m.
You cannot legally hit and kill someone in a crosswalk. Period. Cop or not, green light or red. Whether Van Curler was drunk is irrelevant. In fact, RCW 46.61.245 specifically requires drivers to exercise caution when people like Van Curler are crossing the street. A man is dead, but the police ombudsman calls it a “regrettable situation”? At what point do police take responsibility for their inexcusable actions?
detroitdude on June 29 at 11:57 a.m.
valleyman said: “2) Detroit dude - So what I get from your rant is you’d rather deny the police less-lethal devices such as bean bag guns to give them all thousand-dollar personal cameras? Yeah… that will work great when you have taken away all their tools but their guns and their fists to give them cameras… I would wager shooting would go up in a drastic fashion.”
Where do you get this figure of $1000 personal cameras? You can buy pen cameras that record in HD with sound and run for 6 hours on a single battery charge for $29.99 lol. Just look in the glossy section of this very newspaper on the weekends. I would imagine if they did buy personal cameras for the officers that the devices would be a little better than what is advertised for peeping toms and a little more expensive, but certainly not these thousands you proclaim. Funny, law enforcement will do everything and anything to erode a persons rights and due process, but when the shoe is on the other foot you get pissy. I’ll take a page out of your Gestapo playbook that you tell everyone else “If you have nothing to hide, what are you so worried about?”
SugarShane on June 29 at 11:58 a.m.
I feel for both parties. That guy will carry this for a long time and likely need therapy. I hope that both parties have access to health care and can get some help in this distressing time.
PlanB on June 29 at 12:02 p.m.
I also believe Van Curler’s level of intoxication is irrelevant. What is relevant is that someone killed a pedestrian with a car, and no amount of twisted illogical justification changes that. I don’t think Ennis should be sent up the river, and seeing a pedestrian in dark clothing at night is difficult. But obviously there will be no accountability as usual, and no policy change at the SPD. It is disgusting.
Orphan on June 29 at 12:26 p.m.
The one truely telling point here is that a lot of people that usually disagree with each other sometimes harshly seem to wholeheartedly agree on this.
Anytime Diana, myself, Detroit, GreenLibertarian, Thoreau, Eagleproducer, Lib in right wing land, et al all agree this strongly there is a problem that needs fixin. Sorry if I left anyone out feel free to flame me if you just gotta.
All I would like to see is the officer punished just like a member of the general public would be. I am not asking for his head on a pike just the same treatment I would recieve. I dont think this is asking too much, are you listining Anne I dont for a moment think the officer went to work that day and said I think I will run over someone in a crosswalk today.
greenlibertarian on June 29 at 12:30 p.m.
Nicely said, Detroit.
When one looks at the utter exaggerations by Valleyman in a lame and failed attempt to defend illegal and egregious behavior by police officers, you can see Valleyman simply blindly defends cops no matter what.
Again, pathetic.
Squid on June 29 at 1:18 p.m.
I am sickened by this. Hard to say anything that hasn’t already been said.
It’s hard to justify punishing the public for the public for something that didn’t happen, but possibly could have, but no punishment for an officer when the worst possible scenario does happen.
It’s OK for cops to shoot an unarmed man in the back of the head, while he is running for his life, even if he has committed no crime.
It’s OK for cops to beat and taser people to death who have committed no crime.
It’s OK for cops to shoot pregnant chicks who have committed no crime.
It’s OK for cops to shoot and kill kids with BB guns or Airsoft pellet guns, that are obviously armed with a toy.
It’s OK for cops to shoot and kill deaf people armed with an itty bitty whittling knife that has committed no crime or threatened anyone.
It’s OK for cops to shoot and kill elderly preachers on their own property, defending their property, who are not a threat?
It’s OK for cops the shoot and kill people who are never given the chance to drop their weapon. “DROP YOUR BLAM BLAM BLAM……. weapon…”
It’s OK for cops to shoot and kill people armed with rocks or knives, even though the public has paid for a huge cache of non lethal weapons that are never ever used.
It’s OK for cops to drive drunk and smash into other cars, including other cop cars. Whatever happened to those guys?
Now, it’s OK to do this.
Tell me…. What isn’t OK for the cops? Just what is a criminal act when a cop does it?
Why do we have an Ombudsman, again?
The cops have diplomatic immunity for anything and everything. What will keep them honest, if they can do no wrong?
Our police forces need huge management changes and a sweep of bad cops.
We need to rid our area of unions and management that promote and defend corruption and criminal activity by those that would severely punish the public for the same.
Squid on June 29 at 1:23 p.m.
I’d support the jail expansion, if they would agree to put some cops in it….. Behind bars, that is.
IDnow on June 29 at 2:28 p.m.
This is very troublesome. It makes me wonder what “either walking westbound in the crosswalk or near the crosswalk when he was struck” really means. Was he really “near the crosswalk” ON the sidewalk when the officer hit him?
A lot of trust is eroded between the community and law enforcement when the police have so little accountability.
chouligirl on June 29 at 3:04 p.m.
Wow, I thought I’d heard it all…and then the Spokanistan PD go another step higher. When dies the double standard and corruption stop?? I’d like the SPD to explain to the citizens just how an officer can hit and kill a pedestrian while speeding AND texting on his computer and have committed no crime??!! Just explain that one.
Apparently the police do NOT have to obey the same laws the citizens do. That is wrong and needs to change. The police have been out of control for a long time and it’s high time to make big changes. I hope the family of that man gets the best lawyers and makes an example of the SPD and the officer.
NancyAP on June 29 at 3:59 p.m.
I am a recovered alcoholic. Does that mean that when I was drinking it was OK to hit me with your car and kill me? This is an example of making the victim guilty. Just because you don’t like alcoholics or have been hurt by one who is a friend or a relative does not mean you have the right to kill the alcoholic.
My husband predicted that this would happen, a policeman or deputy sheriff having an accident because of texting or using the in-car computer while driving. Distraction is a fact of life when texting. Law enforcement folks are not immune. They should pull over to the side of the road to do their texting. This kind of accident will happen again. By the way how was this texting an emergency which required risking the lives of the public?
D Statler on June 29 at 4:16 p.m.
I am guessing this is not how good cops take drunks off the streets. I am gonna find it interesting how much settlement will be offered to the Van Curler family. This is a tragic accident that could have happened to anyone.I am glad it wasn’t me driving that car.
Hcklbery on June 29 at 4:28 p.m.
Burns called the crash “just one of those regrettable situations.”
“This officer’s going to have to live with that the rest of his life as well, and that’s a hard thing to live with, I suspect,” Burns said.
IS ANYONE DELUSIONAL ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THAT THIS WOULD BE THE ATTITUDE IF THIS HAD BEEN A CIVILIAN INSTEAD OF A POLICE OFFICER ???
Fisma on June 29 at 4:39 p.m.
Wow! I see a lot of stone throwing in a glass house. I agree that ALL people should be held accountable for their actions. However, all I’ve read thus far is a lot accusations and finger pointing.
To all of the negative commenters, who of you have read all of the reports of the investigation that was done? My guess is a big fat zero! I wouldn’t throw a stone until I had reviewed all of the facts.
I’m not saying I agree or disagree with everything in this matter. But I do know I’m not a making a decision about it just based upon a news story!
Educate yourself first. Then give an INFORMED opinion or comment.
SpokyDaBear on June 29 at 4:45 p.m.
The dude is a criminal and should be sent to jail. He didn’t text anyone. There is no proof that he did. He is lying.
He was speeding, pretending to be one of the Duke Boys.
He killed someone and doesn’t have the guts to take responsibility for his mistake.
That’s the SPD for yah!…
Orphan on June 29 at 5:41 p.m.
Fisma I would be really really interested in any scenario that you can come up with that would make speeding, working on a lap top and running over someone in a crosswalk OK.
We are waiting.
jddavis on June 29 at 5:44 p.m.
Fisma—
All of the “accusations and finger pointing” that I have read are based upon what the officer said and what the SPD said. People are PO’d because of what the principle player has stated…not much to scheme and dream about there.
You suggest that we all need to read a biased report before we can form an opinion…I raise the BS flag on that! I guarantee you that what has been released to the public is the “best case” scenario, and not the totality of negative facts in the matter.
I am pro law enforcement. I understand accidents happen. I believe in taking responsibility for causing bad things to happen—in this case, a man was killed. There is a trend in this community that LE can act without accountability; something I have become amazed with since I moved here 11 years ago. Squid listed several questionable instances that don’t pass the smell test. Spare us the glass house lecture please.
Kivaari on June 29 at 6:14 p.m.
Interesting comments. The thing that we should be concerned with was the message he sent work related? For some to claim it can’t be proved, I would say, it is part of the record. Every time a radio or cell phone (radio) or MDT (computer linked radio) is used it is recorded. Cops and other emergency service workers CAN use cell phones while driving. It is legal. All of the devices in a patrol car ARE distracting. When an officer must look to the MDT, radio control head, siren/light control head, radar, multiple radio microphones and cell phones it can be very distracting.
SQUID, Olsen was charged in the Pete shooting and a civilian jury found him not guilty. Blame the jury. Olsen was forced to resign AKA: fired.
Zehm was not beaten to death or TASERed to death. He died because of hypoxia, due to a failure of both the police and EMS. It is still in the court system.
The negligent shooting of the pregnant chick, was negligent. But she was guilty of dealing drugs. She was attempting to flee and swallow evidence. Hardly innocent.
Shooting and killing a person armed with a toy gun, such as airsoft guns which look exactly like real guns, is an excusable shooting. Don’t carry around realistic replica guns and expect to be considered harmless. A finger in a pocket is a “gun” until proven otherwise. An armed robber can be and has been convicted of armed robbery when all they had was a finger in a pocket.
The drunken wood carver was shot, the cop was forced to quit. Multiple investigations found the shooting legal. BUT, the agency did not accept that and he quit. Police don’t determine the charges brought or not brought by a prosecutor.
Creach was obviously a threat. That is why Hirzel was cleared by no less than 4 investigations. If an armed man comes at you with a gun in hand, that person is not too smart.
Groom, was shot with little warning. Cops do NOT have to give a verbal or visual warning in defense of themselves or others. Groom was pointing a gun, and posed a visual imminent threat.
Lesson is don’t do that.
Dodd was reported to be armed with a knife. Until proven otherwise it is a knife. Less lethal weapons can be both lethal and ineffective. The officer showed great restraint letting Dodd get within 6-8 feet on his second charge. Suicide by cop.
The FORMER deputy that crashed into the deputy was a FORMER deputy, a current drunk and drug user. He was charged. Do you think cops want EX-cops driving into working cops or anyone else? Dumb.
If cops are immune from prosecution, why are so many in jail?
If you make examples of these case, like you LIED to do, at least tell the truth.
Fisma on June 29 at 7:00 p.m.
Orphan: Yes, 34-39 mph in a 30 zone is speeding. However, this is just a civil infraction. In other words, a speeding ticket. However, the story says he was enroute to a trouble unknown call. I don’t know about you, but I’m okay with law enforcement doing 4-9 mph over the limit to get to a call, especially if someone was in trouble and needed help. I know there are a lot of crashes out there caused by speeding. The vast majority of times the drivers are just ticketed for speeding, not arrested for a crime unless we’re talking about an exorbitant amount of speed or something else like DUI. There are hundreds of crashes across the country where people are killed and the drivers are not cited or arrested. This is not just a Spokane phenomenon.
jddavis: How do you know the report is biased? Have you read it? This is what I was trying to say. You’re already saying or “pointing a finger” at it as being biased, but I’m guessing you haven’t read it yet. I think both of us could read it and tell relatively quickly if the investigation was biased. This was the point I was trying to make. Educate yourself first with the evidence, then point the finger where it’s due, not just from reading a news story with very few details.
Kivaari gets it. Let’s look at all the facts and have a good idea of the entire picture. Again, educate yourself first before casting judgment based upon a news story.
Dazzeetrader11 on June 29 at 7:02 p.m.
It’s simply not legal to text alone let alone text AND speed. Where’s his tickets? Where is anything on this cop?
He just went home even though the brass knew that he broke the law?
This is the typ eof thing the FBI needs to know about. It’s just plan crazy when the full face evidence is so clear!
Might seem like small infractions…..even though it DID lead to an innocent man’s death….it’s not. What this does do though is open the door for lawless behavior by a policeman. No matter the excuse or purported reason, he needs to be cited at the minimum. Two moving violations……I know I’d be in big trouble. Why isn’t he?
jddavis on June 29 at 7:22 p.m.
Fisma—who wrote the report? Who performed the investigation? The answer to these questions should make it pretty obvious why I say it is biased.
Kivaari on June 29 at 7:26 p.m.
Dazy, The RCW allows emergency workers to use the equipment. If it were illegal they would not be allowed to have an MDT, radio, or phone in the car.
jddavis on June 29 at 7:27 p.m.
Fisma—let me help you answer the questions:
“…exonerated of wrongdoing in an internal investigation by the Spokane Police Department. Burns reviewed the investigation and deemed it timely, thorough and objective…”
“…said Spokane County sheriff’s Cpl. Dave Thornburg, who investigated the crash.”
Fisma on June 29 at 7:29 p.m.
Dazzeetrader11: According to the story he was typing on his in-car computer, which is legal for cops to do. So I only count one moving violation (speed), not two.
Again according to the story, he was heading to back another officer on a trouble unknown call. As I said to Orphan, I’m okay with this. I want cops to get to their calls. It doesn’t appear he was at a reckless speed, only 4-9 mph over the limit. I don’t know about you, but I know I’ve looked down at my speedometer and found myself in this speeding range more than once in my driving experience.
A lot of people are just looking at the officer. What about the pedestrian? According to the story, the pedestrian had a very high blood alcohol content. It’s at night and he’s wearing dark clothes. I’m not saying this is wrong or illegal, but it is one of the ingredients of this pie people have to look at it. Again, the story said the light was green for the officer. So if the pedestrian is crossing while the light is green for the officer, then the pedestrian is in violation. I hear a lot of people complain about things in Spokane. I think we can all agree pedestrians in this town are seen violating the rules of the road on a fairly regular basis.
This is what I’ve been trying to say…..let’s look at all the facts first. I’m an engineer by trade. When there is a failure or engineering problem, we look at all the pieces or ingredients of the pie and then point the finger at the bad ingredient. Just by going with the posted story, I see many bad ingredients and they are not all one-sided.
Kivaari on June 29 at 7:33 p.m.
JDDavis, There are always multiple investigation tracks. Yes, the police agency investigates itself IN ADDITION to the outside agencies. The information from all the investigators is then passed to the prosecutor to make a LEGAL ruling. Then if so desired an attorney for the plaintiff can see all of the information since it is all public record. A civil trial may ensue with a citizens jury hearing the case.
detroitdude on June 29 at 7:34 p.m.
Orphan said: “All I would like to see is the officer punished just like a member of the general public would be.”
Well said, and I think that echoes the majority of posters on this topic. Nobody wants this cop drawn and quartered or his career ended. But if it had been me, I’d probably be sitting in a cell getting ready to face manslaughter charges or whatever else they could tack on with my tax dollars.
Further, my “respect” for the SPD has been so eroded it is hard NOT to give a second look when anything happens. I can understand this was an accident, and those do happen. What I don’t understand is why as a common citizen, myself and anyone else would be thrown under a microscope as if we were just some sort of rage-aholic, poor decision making animal. Meanwhile, cop (probably a good cop I’m guessing) makes a mistake and its just brush it under the rug, nothing to see here. Move along.
Maybe more people around here would be willing to overlook this type of thing and not be so scrutinizing if it weren’t for the track record of poor conduct already documented. When I was a little kid, the police were the heroes, the people who always did the right thing, among themselves and among the people they serve. Maybe if the SPD started acting with a little more humility they could get some sympathy.
Fisma on June 29 at 7:39 p.m.
jddavis: You are not being fair to the SPD officer or the sheriff’s office. Do you know anything about either of these cops? To automatically say the report is biased shows your bias. Again, read the report first and then make an informed opinion.
According to past stories on this, the investigation was reviewed by the prosecutor’s office. They said…..no crime.
Now I understand your argument of SPD’s internal investigation, but Burns concurred…..no crime.
Again, I’m not saying I agree or disagree. I have to read the entire report first before I start defending any one side of this. I want to be informed before I start blaming just one side.
Kivaari on June 29 at 7:55 p.m.
Detroit Orphan, Would a non-police member of the general public be en route to a DVA call (this was the second call to that home that night) have an MDT sending information to and from the ordinary person. I don’t know of private individuals using an MDT issued to them by the city, that respond to emergency calls. So I guess if a private person did have an MDT they could not use it. So, they would not be dispatched to a DVA or unknown trouble call, so they would not have a legal need to go 5-9 mph over the limit.
Also, the drunken pedestrian does own a huge part of his own death. Most people having a .371 BAC, could not even walk. At that level a person is totally without any brain power. The decedent could have been arrested for disorderly conduct for disrupting traffic. Just saying, pedestrians need to take more care, they don’t have a carte blanc to walk into the street.
detroitdude on June 29 at 8:08 p.m.
Kivaari: I ignored your last post before this, because I really didn’t feel like typing. But now that I have a delicious grilled pork chop in me I have to say….
“So, they would not be dispatched to a DVA or unknown trouble call, so they would not have a legal need to go 5-9 mph over the limit.”
With all due respect, this is the career path and goal you chose to pursue. I can also imagine cops on the beat already “knowing” what these calls are going to be when a familiar address and code comes across. That’s why you all don’t want the cameras, because it would record you saying “Aw, S***, we gotta go back and deal with these idiots” 6 times a day. But that’s really not my gripe.
“Also, the drunken pedestrian does own a huge part of his own death. Most people having a .371 BAC, could not even walk. At that level a person is totally without any brain power. The decedent could have been arrested for disorderly conduct for disrupting traffic”
Explain to me how this is so…please. So, what you are saying is, if I decide to tie one on some night, close down the bar, and then WALK home, I’m at fault if your stone cold sober law enforcement runs me over? And again, why would this person be arrested for simply being drunk? If they are not belligerent then what is the problem? The problem is in law enforcement there are many with a superiority complex. We pay to have you protect us from murder, rape, pillaging, and kids running on my front lawn, not to have you harass people. You need to understand that.
k9coug on June 29 at 8:33 p.m.
An “ordinary citizen” would not have been honest about “texting”, which this wasn’t. And it has not been established that the “texting” was happening at the precise moment of the collision.
An “ordinary citizen” would have also been traveling at 34 to 39 MPH on Monroe at any time, let alone at night when this occurred. Given the nature of the call, I think even a higher speed would have been justified.
An “ordinary citizen” would also have not been charged on these facts.
Not to deminish Mr. Van Curler’s death. I knew the man. I’m sorry it happened.
Fisma on June 29 at 8:33 p.m.
detroitdude: How does the pedestrian factor in? Take a look at the disorderly conduct law, RCW 9A.84.030, which is a misdemeanor. A person can’t obstruct vehicle traffic. Intoxicated and walking into the roadway when the light is green for the officer would likely be ruled disorderly conduct by the legal community.
A couple more points to be made. Several folks are hung up on the fact that the officer was typing on his computer. The news story said the investigators found no record of the message on the officer’s computer or on the other officer’s computer he was sending it to. However, the officer admits to the investigators he sent one just before the crash. Sounds like to me this officer has integrity and is not hiding anything. He also volunteered to have his blood drawn after the crash. The officer didn’t have to say this or give a sample of his blood.
Several folks are also hung up on the officer being 4-9 mph over the speed limit. Any others out there who drive Monroe on a regular basis? Based on my experience, this is what everyone does going up and down Monroe. Being of the engineer trade, there’s another question to be asked here. Would the officer still have hit the pedestrian if he was going the speed limit? If so, then his speeding is really a moot point. This item is something that likely would be covered in the investigative reports. Typically, law enforcement does an accident reconstruction in these types of events. Again, something everyone needs to read before casting final judgement.
Orphan on June 29 at 8:36 p.m.
Kivaari So the Police are special, thats what you are saying by arguing that a non-police member of the general public. Turn your argument around and it does not make sense.
What are the laws on speeding for police officers, my understanding is they have to obay the law unless they are responding with lights and siren, there is no legal need for officers to exceed the speed limit, please correct me if I am wrong.
I can buy that the drunk was partialy responsable for his death, but he was in a crosswalk on an other wise mostly empty street.
It makes me really suspicious that the message never recorded and was never recieved. I think to myself was he really sending a message and thought #2 was it a personal message and deleted because it was not official business. dont know cant prove it but it makes me think whats going on.
SPD has lost the respect of the regular Joe and that is really sad. I really feel sorry for the officer he has to live with this.
Kivaari on June 29 at 8:46 p.m.
Detroit, Depending on jurisdiction it can be illegal to be drunk in public. Nearly 40 years ago the WA supreme court ruled that just being drunk was not a crime. BUT, a drunk in the roadway is guilty of disorderly conduct. In fact that is a major element of the offense, disrupting traffic. So if you are drunk, don’t disrupt traffic. Don’t disrupt the peace of others, no happy singing or screaming at lamp posts.
Police TRY to prevent crime through their presence. Police do not owe anyone anything except to TRY to help you. This is a settled SCOTUS ruling about general police functions. YOU don’t count, but the community does.
You getting raped, murdered or robbed is your problem. The police will TRY to catch the offender in an effort to bring justice and prevent future crimes. But if you don’t give them the resources (money) they might not be able to buy the equipment or pay for the testing needed to capture a criminal. A DNA test is expensive. A computer aided fingerprint system is expensive. Spokane PD has a budget crisis so your loss to theft is just not important to them. It could be if you wanted it to be.
Spokane has the police force they are willing to hire.
Just who is getting harassed by the police? What did they do to bring the harassment about?
Fisma on June 29 at 8:50 p.m.
Orphan: Just because a pedestrian is in a crosswalk doesn’t mean they have the absolute right of way. The story said the officer had the green light, so that means the pedestrian was crossing illegally.
As for the message, do we all know how their computer system operates and is set up? If he deleted it, then why even tell the investigators about it? This doesn’t make sense. I see integrity, not suspicion.
Once again, we all need to read the report before speculating about all this stuff.
Kivaari on June 29 at 9:13 p.m.
Orphan. The MDT uses cell phone “trunked radio” technology. Has your cell phone not always completed a call. Has it dropped calls? In the early days (1999-2002) we were issued fancy two-way pagers that would complete my calls sometime three days late. I would get emergency messages sent THREE DAYS LATE.
When using computer aided radio systems “things” go bad. Conventional radio in the lower VHF/UHF analog frequencies often fail. Digital radio systems are just like cell phones. Signal strength, shadows, interference or simply hitting the wrong key can mean the message is lost. Listen to satellite radio and park with a tree to your south and the radio goes dead. I am not saying that is what happened here, but I do know that any radio system is prone to not working just when you need it most.
When I did stakeouts, I carried multiple radios and spare batteries in my tactical vest. The first thing that goes wrong, is always communication.
In regards to speeding. The policy I worked under was to turn on emergency lights whenever going through a stop light/sign. If the speed went much more then 5 over the limit we were required to display a REAR FACING emergency light. When officers crashed at an intersection, even with lights going it was considered a POLICY and technical violation. Emergency lights are only asking for permission to clear a sign or light. Rarely were red lights or stops signs negotiated at high speed. Some officers do think the lights DEMAND everyone get out of the way. Well, in a way they do, but people are simply not aware enough, so the officer has to make sure the other guy sees them and yields. Or take defensive action. Responding fast, and this wasn’t fast, is normal. If I were writing policy for SPD, it would be OK to speed, as long as the public wasn’t endangered. I would recommend that at least the rear facing lights be activated. Under most conditions it would be policy to use some form of forward facing red/blue light if the speeds exceeded 10 mph over the limit or a red light or uncontrolled intersection were being crossed. that’s just me. I saw too many police car crashes because the officers thought their lights and siren really worked when most drivers suffer from HUAS.
Squid on June 29 at 9:56 p.m.
Kivarri, the judge in the Olsen case didn’t allow evidence that was a big part of the case and Olsen and the prosecutor lied like a carpet on the stand. That is why Shonto Pete lost that case.
Zehm was beaten and tasered to death. If he wasn’t why did they need to call EMS in the first place? Many cops were involved in that murder, but only one was charged with anything, and that was ONLY because the FBI got involved.
The prego chick didn’t do anything that made her deserve to be shot. Oops would not work as an excuse for the public.
If a cop can’t tell the difference between a BB gun or Airsoft pellet gun and a real gun, they shouldn’t be allowed to be a cop. Obviously they are too stupid to carry an gun and be in life and death situations.
The drunken wood carver did nothing. The cops and prosecutors are directly connected, especially in Spokane, since the Prosecutor was formerly a cop. Yes, I know it was in Seattle.
Creach was never a threat, and like the BB gun thing, if you can’t physically control an elderly preacher who is on his knees, you shouldn’t be allowed to be a cop. Hirzel should be executed for what he did.
Groom was never going to shoot anyone, but the cops never assessed the situation to find that out. I am 100% certain that if they told him to drop the gun, he would have.
If a cop can’t disable a guy with a knife, they shouldn’t be allowed to be a cop. Especially when there is a toy box full of non lethal weapons in every cop car. I could write a book on the thousands of ways to disarm a guy with a knife and what the cops did wrong in the MANY “guy with knife or rock” murders.
The FORMER deputy’s father was a big guy in the police force, so nothing will come of the charges that have been PENDING FOR YEARS.
Please make a list of the local cops who are in jail.
1. Bartolucci
2.????
Now…. Who is the real liar(s)?
Squid on June 29 at 10:38 p.m.
Kivarri, new request… Please make a list of any cops who are in jail during Tucker, Kirkpatrick, or Ozzy’s watch.
1. ????
2. ????
Just curious… Do you think Bartolucci is even still in prison? I doubt it.
SMARTGUY on June 29 at 10:40 p.m.
Kill them all and let God sort them out has been the attitude of the police for decades. No charges, just a big tax payer settlement, SOP for the spokane police
Squid on June 29 at 10:58 p.m.
Kivarri, new new request…. Please make a list of any cops who have been behind bars (for anything) during Tucker, Kirkpatrick, or Ozzy’s watch.
1. nothing
2. no one
Even the drunken FORMER cop who ran into a bunch of other cars and then ran from the scene NEVER made it to jail. Did Olsen ever make it to jail as a prisoner?
Kivaari on June 29 at 11:23 p.m.
Squid, A judge limits evidence that can prejudice a case. What was excluded? Pete lost his case. Olsen “won” his case. Pete was unsympathetic, so the jury thought his minor wound wasn’t worth a reward. In the Olsen criminal trial the prosecutor can only give relevant evidence. The slamdunk case, went flat. Olsen is no longer a cop. Zehm was hit with a baton and received minor injuries. He was TASERed which doesn’t kill. He was hog-tied and left on his stomach. His weight on his stomach created a well known condition, positional asphyxiation. His weight was too much overcome so he stopped breathing. The officers should have rolled him onto his side. The EMS were treating a very much alive Zehm and they failed to roll him. Poor EMS work. The FBI became involved because it was EASY for Thompson to articulate why he used the level of force he used. A prosecutor could not prove a crime. The FBI is getting no where. Thompson can argue why he used the force. He called the EMS people. They failed Zehm. A $2.9 million suit is working its way forward.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that the WSP Sgt. NEGLIGENTLY but without criminal intent screwed up and shot the escaping woman? Although no crime happened, there was a violation of policy and he and the state can be sued in civil court.
Have you seen a real replica airsoft or pellet gun? They are identical appearance to a real gun. It is easy to not notice the gun is cast zinc or plastic toy. The idea behind them is to make them identical. The little orange tip is removed or painted over. That is the only identifier. Dillinger broke out of jail with a piece of blackened soap. A gun is real until proven otherwise.
The wood carver case was such that no prosecution would work. There is doubt. Like Zehm, that officer had enough legal authority to limit his criminal liability. The department felt he failed them, and he was forced to quit. He can still face a civil suit. It is not over. An old man or weak disabled 90 year old with a .45 is not a threat? Hirzel didn’t have Creach on his knees. After the questionable baton strike, Creach slightly buckled and regained his feet, reached for the gun and was shot.
Who says Groom would not shoot? How was that message transmitted to the minds of the officers? Groom created a situation that looked like he was going shoot. Cops saw that and shot, knowing they were morally and legally correct. Cops don’t try to disarm people armed with knives. They are trained to respond with lethal force. No silly use of a baton or some martial arts move. A knife with a 1 inch blade will kill you in a quick slice. Every training class I have seen in police and military says expect to get hurt or killed if you try to take a knife away from a person. Shoot people with a knife. You have no formal training in this field do you? The former deputy was probably treated just like any other citizen in his first DUI crash and fired. He has multiple arrests, so what is the problem at the court? The injured deputy took two years to heal, I bet he likes justice being delivered.
Just google police officer arrested ad words like murder, theft, drunk driving, rape. I know of former cops in jail for murder in Grays Harbor, Pierce, King and Spokane counties. I’ve seen them arrested and fired for DVA, DUI, drugs, bribery attempts, burglary. Murders in New Orleans, New York, and elsewhere. It is a common thread, what every private citizens do, cops will do. It makes the news because they are held to higher standards.
You are still a LIAR. NONE of your examples fit the true story. Anyone that suggest wrestling for a gun or knife is living an unrealistic fantasy life. Have you ever attended a police academy? Combat school? Baton training? Riot training?
It is funny to see you make such claims about these cases.
You left out Corporons shotgun rampage. You left out a couple other suicide by cop events as well.
Kivaari on June 29 at 11:28 p.m.
Squid, You do the research. You are wrong about cops being arrested. They get dumped and de-certified all over the nation.
Corrupt of morally defective people inhabite all aspects of life. There are cops from around the state in jail for murder. There are robbers, drunks, perverts, wife beaters, drug users, drug dealers and more.
oink on June 29 at 11:45 p.m.
My son just texted me to pick him up from a graduation party. He is under age and everyone at this party has been drinking. He does not want anyone to drive him home because they have been drinking.
Should I:
A, Drive down and give him a ride home….. Hoping no other inebreated teenager jumps out in frount of my truck and gets killed… (I know now that the SPD will tell me to shrug it off it…happens to the best of us.) But I will be really spending his education fund trying to get me off the over chargining Spokane police charges.
B. Let him sleep it off tell him to walk home in the AM and talk about it later.
C. Call the Spokane police and tell them of this party and let them go down and bust it… lights out.. high speed ..with SWAT backup… and run over a few underage drinkers on route.
D. Now that the kid is out of school, try to sell the house and find some place where you can live with out fear of the SPOKANE POLICE ….SPOKANE SHERIFF…. WASHINGTON STATE POLICE
Fisma on June 30 at 7:08 a.m.
Squid: Once again, educate, educate, educate yourself. Your saying things about these cases and you don’t know all the facts or read the reports.
The former deputy involved in several crashes has been to prison for his earlier crimes. He’s out now and did it again. Yes, these charges are pending as they just happened. I’m not saying our system is perfect, but the wheels of justice turn slow and everyone has the right to have their day in court.
As for Tom DiBartolo, check the facts…..he’s still in prison. He was in the news not too long ago trying to appeal his sentence and lost.
This is what I’ve been trying to say from the beginning. Several folks are running off at the mouth without the facts in hand and making accusations without knowledge of the evidence or reading the reports. Educate, educate, educate…
lewis8457 on June 30 at 9:33 a.m.
Kavaari you can spin Otto’s death anyway you want the fact of the matter is he would be alive if Thompson bothered to address him before beating him to the floor with his over sized baton.
maybe the medics are to blame but he wouldn’t have been on the floor if Thompson would have acted like a police officer and not a jack booted thug.
and no one cares cops are going to jail around te nation we want to see cops go to jail here.
oink the problem with selling is the house prices in Spokane have dropped so far you will only get 1/4 of your equity back. We get to lose our investments just to getaway from our jack booted police.
Sadbuttrue on June 30 at 9:33 a.m.
So the rigorous training that cops get equips them to safely drive while texting? I wonder if it also trains them to drive safely while drunk?
What the cop defenders cannot even begin to comprehend is how much hate and ill will this obvious double standard generates towards their occupation, so they start out their bromides with “Once again, the cop haters are out ……” And then they transition into how difficult it would be to “prove” a vehicular manslaughter case under these facts.
It’s easy to prove: Just like the Ellington “road rage” case in Idaho, cops could take the stand and lie like they were trained to do get that conviction. They perjure themselves virtually every single day in court against the rest of us, what is so hard about doing it to one of their own?
The fact is, an everyday citizen would have been arrested on the spot and had a National-Debt level sky-high bail set while they languish in jail for six months while the “difficult” issues of “proof” are ironed out by the glacially slow judicial system. And suppose they succeed somehow in proving their innocence? They leave jail with their lives in utter financial, occupational, and family ruin.
Poor Mr. Ellington, having been freed by the unanimous Idaho Supreme Court, spent just six days out of jail before being ordered back in to wait for his retrial.
Apparently difficult issues of “proof” only crop up when a Cop is the Defendant.
Sadbuttrue on June 30 at 9:55 a.m.
“But if you don’t give them the resources (money) they might not be able to buy the equipment or pay for the testing needed to capture a criminal. A DNA test is expensive. A computer aided fingerprint system is expensive. Spokane PD has a budget crisis so your loss to theft is just not important to them.”
However, the “expensive tests” necessary to bust people for the use of marijuana, on the other hand, are always readily available, aren’t they?
But Kivaari should be commended by being honest and forthright that the police do not get a rat’s a$$ about protecting our property.
Squid on June 30 at 11:14 a.m.
Didn’t think you could name any.
Ed Byrnes on June 30 at 1:57 p.m.
I am sharing a thought about the process.
Before I do so I want to remark that Officer Involved Deaths have decreased over the past several months and those responsible for the procedural or training changes leading to this desirable outcome should be credited for their productive efforts.
If there were a more independent and transparent process applied to investigating officer involved deaths (OIDs) the citizens would be more trusting of the process, and by extension, local law enforcement (LLE).
The National Institute of Justice describes different types of Citizen Review Boards (CRBs) and in addition to improving community confidence in LLE most CRBs have some independent investigative authority and are provided with investigative assistance.
It should be made clear that a CRB is not the same as the Sheriff’s Citizen Advisory Board, which has no investigative authority at all.
Our Sheriff and the SPD Chief have publicly stated that they’re in favor a coroner led inquests into OIDs. The most credible inquests have a member of the judiciary and citizens involved in them. The County Commission and City Council have yet to discuss this option.
So we have some choices to make and concerned citizens should urge the County Commission and City Council to move on this important issue for our community.
Ed
lewis8457 on July 01 at 8:21 a.m.
yes Ed your right the killings did stop over the winter, they don’t mind killing us but they get cold standing around waiting for the body wagon.
Now that summer is here, people will be out with pop bottles, rocks, key rings, etc. in their hands giving our storm troopers more opportunities to protect is from the drunk, suicide, and depressed folks out there.
Not to mention the odd senior business owner thinking he has rights.
Sadbuttrue on July 01 at 10:01 a.m.
“…..Officer Involved Deaths have decreased over the past several months and those responsible for the procedural or training changes leading to this desirable outcome should be credited for their productive efforts.”
Yes, as soon as the Spokane police entered into the embarrassing, freakish twilight zone of a truly jaw-dropping killing rate surpassing even that of municipalities 10 or 20 times larger in population, someone must have called off the fun. It was like a faucet was turned off.
Some grownup must have decided that Spokane’s civilians cannot be treated as hostile enemy combatants in a war zone.
Which in itself, demolishes any justification that was given for the 8 shootings that took place before the abrupt halt was called, since after all, the killing rate equaled that of New York City, which only has 20 times the population and 30 times the cops patrolling giant seething non english-speaking swaths of unassimilated refugees and immigrants.
valleyman on July 01 at 5:23 p.m.
This is sure a sorry lot of commentators…
Ed Byrnes on July 01 at 6:29 p.m.
valleyman: I gave proper credit for an improved situation, then respectfully offered suggestions that would increase LLE credibility through transparency and public accountability, including one idea that is endorsed by our major LLE leaders.
How is that sorry in your eyes?
Ed
greenlibertarian on July 01 at 9:19 p.m.
Ed, no sense dealing with a pro-cop no matter what they do zealot like valleyman.
Unless and until the cops brutally murder a member of his family, and even then maybe not, valleyman will support any and all actions by law enforcement with great gusto.
valleyman on July 02 at 4:00 p.m.
Ed,
I fail to see what coroner inquests will bring since we don’t have coroners in Spokane, but rather a medical examiner. But let’s play along…
So the M.E. conducts inquests into every OID (Officer Involved Death). You will have an outcome from the death investigation but what does this do to help PREVENT more deaths?
Additionally, I am sorry, but once you take away the ability of those with experience to investigate, you put an even more dangerous bias in the system - that of ignorance - ignorance of the processes, procedures, policies, laws, and potentially the very lifestyle of policing.
I respect you Ed because you offer thoughtful dialogue and proffer ideas rather than just hurling insults and putting down entire professions like my good friend greenlib…
Sadbuttrue on July 03 at 4:37 a.m.
“And potentially the very lifestyle of policing….”
That “lifestyle” is very bad for the citizens of Spokane, who were being slaughtered in outrageous, jaw-dropping, wildly-excessive numbers.
It turns out that our “public safety” officers weren’t very safe for the public.
That toxic “lifestyle” that evolved in this locality needs to be rooted out fast.
Hcklbery on July 05 at 11:08 a.m.
A Pedestrian in a crosswalk is like a sailboat in the harbor’s waterways.
They BOTH have the LEGAL right-away OVER motorized traffic.
BUT neither survives the contest.