Spokane7
68°
May 10, 2011 in City, Region
Washington bill addresses unmarked patrol cars
Two Republican lawmakers from Spokane Valley have introduced a bill in the Washington House of Representatives that would bar Spokane County Sheriff’s deputies from parking their unmarked cars on private property for routine matters.
The bill, sponsored by Reps. Matt Shea and Larry Crouse, both of Spokane Valley, would clarify what they called a “vague” state law that allows local law enforcement to use unmarked cars for administrative menial tasks. They both said in a news release that the clarification would avoid future situations like the one on Aug. 25 that led to the fatal shooting of 74-year-old Wayne Scott Creach last summer.
“The tragic shooting of Pastor Creach was avoidable. It’s made a lot of people take a second look at practices and procedures that have been commonplace in the past,” Crouse said in the release. “Law enforcement has a critical job to do. We just want to make sure something like this doesn’t happen again. Putting these new guidelines in place for will help us avoid similar tragedies in the future.”
Sheriff’s Deputy Brian Hirzel has been cleared in the shooting by Spokane County prosecutors, and most recently, by the Spokane County Sheriff’s Citizen Advisory Board for the shooting.
He parked his unmarked police car at Creach’s family business, The Plant Farm, on the night of Aug. 25 that night after a neighbor requested an extra patrol because her son was having trouble with local youths.
As he waited, Hirzel told investigators that he was filling out a collision report from earlier in the evening, he told investigators, when he saw a man approaching him with a gun. Hirzel said the man, who turned out to be Creach, the founder of Greenacres Baptist Church, initially refused to put down the gun but eventually placed it the gun in waistband of his pants.
Hirzel exited his car and ordered the man to get on the ground. When Creach refused, Hirzel claimed that he hit Creach in the knee with his police baton. He said Creach initially buckled and then reached for his gun. Hirzel said he fired when he saw the butt of the pistol grip.
“It’s reasonable to expect any time there is an unknown car parked on private property, the property owner is likely to go out and investigate. That’s what this pastor did. He should not have been killed while protecting his own property,” Shea said in the release. “In the interest of safety and private property rights, I think unmarked police cars should not be parked on private property while the officer is doing administrative functions or routine reports.”
Under the bill, deputies or police officers in unmarked patrol cars “shall not remain on private property while the officer is filling out reports or executing other administrative activities.”
The bill has been referred to the House Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Committee for further consideration is necessary “to make sure such a tragedy isn’t repeated,” Shea said. However, the sponsors did not get leadership approval to bring the bill up during the current special session on the state budget.
Shea said he wanted to get the conversation started and work through any concerns from law enforcement officials before re-introducing the bill in next year’s session.
Alan Creach, son of the slain pastor, said he hopes something is done regardless of when lawmakers consider it.
“This is about public safety and private property rights,” Creach said. “It would have been a lot easier for the sheriff to change it. But he didn’t … and I think it’s at the expense of the community.”
Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich said he doesn’t understand what Shea and Crouse are trying to accomplish with the bill.
“I can’t tell you how many times members of the community or business people have said, ‘Any time you folks need to park in my parking lot or driveway, we want up there taking care of issues,’” Knezovich said. “Those people expect us to be in those parking lots protecting their businesses in the wee hours of the morning. That’s how we operate.”
When asked if his comments referred to marked or unmarked cars, Knezovich said both apply. The sheriff’s office, which contracts to provide police services to Spokane Valley, has 24 marked cars and 10 unmarked cars that patrol the city. Another 13 unmarked cars are used by patrol and supervisors in the unincorporated portions of Spokane County.
“What are our options? Are we supposed to go find a school parking lot or go back to the station rather than being out in the community and being that presence to prevent crime?” he asked.
Also Tuesday his office released questions posed by the 12-member Citizen’s Advisory Committee. That board posed 19 questions of sheriff’s investigators, including why it took deputies 8 minutes before beginning CPR on Creach following the shooting.
The board also asked whether the unmarked car played a role; they inquired about the trajectory of the bullet, why they detectives didn’t look for blood inside Hirzel’s car and why Hirzel was carrying a badge from Kootenai County _ something that investigators had not previously revealed.
Those answers were not contained in materials released as part of a records request by The Spokesman-Review, but the information did contain four paragraphs from the committee thanking the sheriff’s officials for the answers to its inquiries.
“The questions and concerns of the Advisory Board were answered completely and with transparency,” the letter stated. “We felt that though this was a tragic incident, Sheriff’s Deputy Brian Hirzel acted in a reasonable manner based on our review of the case files.”
Reporter Jim Camden contributed to this story.
1992 murder trial begins against sex offender 
Thoreau on May 10 at 12:38 p.m.
I’m not too keen on police being able to use private property as an ambush site, marked or unmarked.
However, maybe the state should also remind the public that approaching a cop with a gun is a stupid idea.
PlanB on May 10 at 12:49 p.m.
The statement by Shea is the first reasonable statement I’ve heard from any government official. Pastor Creach’s actions were totally reasonable. Hirzel’s was not.
I see no reason for unmarked cars for patrol duty, revenue generation, or general police work. In fact, a higher profile would be better.
idahocity on May 10 at 12:56 p.m.
how about getting back to the nice old blue uniforms instead of the black janitors suit they are forced to wear now. that might help differentiate them better at night too.
Mike1950 on May 10 at 1:55 p.m.
Another case of government stepping in to slove a problem that doesn’t exist. The minute Creach saw the deputy in full uniform should have been a clue this was a law enforcement officer and he should do what he was asked to do. It was a tragic event that didn’t end well and I feel bad for the family but this proposed legislation is a waste of time. Crouse and Shea should be focused on the budget.
reservedparking on May 10 at 1:57 p.m.
Officers can park on my property any time they want, unmarked car or otherwise.
Jimmy on May 10 at 2:05 p.m.
Thoreau obviously isn’t familiar with the case. Creach didn’t know it was a police officer which is exactly why he approached with a gun. If someone parked on my driveway at night I would do the exact same thing. Also, anyone can put on a fake uniform ala the guy who was pulling women over by GU’s campus.
We have the right to know who is a cop and who isn’t without wondering if we’ll be shot either way.
misjustice on May 10 at 2:09 p.m.
I think it’s a dumb idea to stop unmarked cars from parking on private property. Let’s just tell all the criminals out there that “we’re here in marked cars so come back another time!” If it becomes a law, I think the criminal has won. (And I personally will vote to oust from office the people that brought up such a dumb idea.)
Creach thought he was above the law & would do whatever he wanted. Maybe our representatives should campaign to inform people NOT to carry guns when approaching an officer. Or, at least, put the gun down when told to do so.
Hirzel was in uniform. There was no mistaken identity about him being an officer. Creach chose to not listen to the officers commands & it cost him his life. So, whether an unmarked car or marked car……it wouldn’t have made any difference to Creach. Apparently he didn’t/wouldn’t listen to the officers any way after being told numerous times.
Al_Loysius on May 10 at 2:14 p.m.
I don’t know why Reps. Crouse and Shea are introducing this bill at this point. The Legislature is only considering bills necessary to implement the budget duiring the special session. This should have been introduced in January if they wanted it to go anywhere. Plus, they should have found a Democratic co-sponsor since they are the minority party, and otherwise this goes nowhere. The bill might get reintroduced next year but won’t likely go anywhere based on probable opposition from association of police chiefs and sherrifs, association of counties, association of cities, etc. Plus, I suspect that a lot of citizen groups who don’t like being burgled appreciate having cops around, whether the cars are marked or not.
Plus, while the Creach incident got a lot of play locally, it got next to nothing in Western Washington where the majority of legislators live.
Finally, legislation that is viewed as being anti “law and order” really goes nowhere in an election year, which 2012 will be.
Kivaari on May 10 at 2:31 p.m.
This is nuts. Cops can and should be able to park on commercial property when ever on the job. Why stop the police from doing security checks, paperwork, or general community caretaking while parked in a parking lot? This is short sighted and foolish.
Kivaari on May 10 at 2:38 p.m.
Gramma, You have it right. Creach acted in a foolish fashion. It should be obvious that he was just wanting to be confrontational. No sane person would approach an obvious police car, and this was obvious, with a gun in hand. No sane person upon having a police officer pointing a .45 at them would not recognize the problem. When commanded by a uniformed officer, getting out of a police car, it makes sense to follow commands. Creach had to recognize what he was up against, and just exerted the response of a stubborn old man. No one was going to tell him what to do in his open to the public commercial parking lot. If he didn’t want the police there, he should have put up a gate. No fence and no gate, means commercial property is available to park a police car on. Hirzell didn’t park in the Creach home driveway, he was on the commercial property. Stupid to deny the police to park at a closed business.
greenlibertarian on May 10 at 2:52 p.m.
More showboating by Shea, the Megalomaniac. When is somebody gonna kick this buttinsky to the curb and tell him to do HIS JOB.
valleyman on May 10 at 3:08 p.m.
The bill is meant to alter RCW 46.08.065 - I have included the link to that bill below:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.08.065
The full text of the Shea/Crouse Bill is here:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2011-12/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/2113.pdf
The only thing this bill does is insert language in an RCW where it doesn’t belong in an effort to “clarify” a non-issue. Really makes you wonder if Shea/Crouse consulted with law enforcement before inserting themselves into this issue with a clear local angle.
Typical knee-jerk politics… It happened once, so we need to legislate to make sure it doesn’t happen again… Clearly the legislative brain-trust at work here thinks it’s ok to refuse the orders of police because the car being unmarked is really a non-issue… Creach could have and should have immediately complied when he saw a uniformed officer and heard him give him a command.
reservedparking on May 10 at 3:12 p.m.
Shea & Crouse got their name in the paper. Mission accomplished.
valleyman on May 10 at 3:14 p.m.
I further have to really question the intelligence of legislators who want to insert language into a statute regarding the marking of publically-owned vehicles before they can be used on “public highways” when that statute specifically excludes law enforcement vehicles from the requirements. The current RCW says nothing about private property and exempts law enforcement vehicles from the marking requirement… Just reading the language of the proposed bill shows a complete lack of understanding…
valleyman on May 10 at 3:14 p.m.
I wonder if the ink is dry on the campaign contribution from the Creach family…
terrymr on May 10 at 3:26 p.m.
It seems kind of a weak measure anyway.
I do have concerns about identifiability of police. There’s nothing stranger than pulling into your driveway and having a man in black with a black beanie carrying a gun walk out of your bushes and claim he was looking for an address that doesn’t even exist on your street.
greenlibertarian on May 10 at 3:29 p.m.
The more I think about this, the more this infuriates me.
Here to have a genuine horrific tragedy. If Hirzel is any kind of a human, he lives the rest of his life knowing he gunned down an upstanding citizen who didn’t deserve to die like that. Creach, his family that is, will forever bemoan that he didn’t just drop that gun when so ordered in an apparently lawful manner.
Near as I can tell, the formal criminal investigations are over, and whether it is right or not, Hirzel has been cleared. I happen to believe there are some legitimate questions about his conduct, but that part of the process is OVER. If one is a believer as this family surely is, Mr. Creach has gone to heaven to meet his maker, gone on to his final reward.
The Creach family will, and should, file a civil suit. Whether any satisfaction comes from that process- negotiations, depositions, settlement, dismissal, or trial by jury is for them to contemplate.
Now flamethrower Shea wants to bring all this tragedy back up again so’s he can get some publicity for a bill that makes no sense, and hasn’t a chance in hell of passing. Oh, but he can’t stop milking it.
Despicable and disgusting.
mamachief on May 10 at 3:43 p.m.
So in making change of no unmarked police cars does this address the new malibu, explorer, dodge or any of the other unmarked police cars. These newer unmarked units are harder to spot unlike the one Hirzel was in night or day.
This family has suffered a great loss and my heart goes out to them.
Sam_Smith on May 10 at 3:45 p.m.
this is a campaign contribution issue. I am sorry they lost their father and husband, but who in their right mind does not put down a gun when a fully dressed officer gets out of a car full of equipment, and tells you to? I feel for their loss but it was stupid thing to do, on his property or not. The Officer was in his right, was fully dressed in his uniform and unless the pastor was blind, he could see that, and the officer felt threatened for his own life. The representatives need to mind their own business and worry about more important things like where the money will come from to buy more cars if they try and pass this and where any money will come from to balance this budget. We are closing schools for heaven sakes.
Ron_the_Cop on May 10 at 4:23 p.m.
The simple answer is that all patrol deputies working regular patrol and traffic should be in MARKED police units. I have no issue with MARKED police units parking as necessary in private business parking lots for business checks, watching the surrounding businesses and or completing reports.
Kivaari on May 10 at 4:42 p.m.
Ron, What about undercover operations? Does it allow that? I always preferred a fully marked car, then the violators couldn’t scream we sneaked up on them and it wasn’t fair. WSP has an ADAT team for aggressive driver apprehension. They were using all kinds of unmarked cars, trucks, even Volvo station wagons at times (worst car on the road). They even have the ADAT Taxi Company, with full TAXI markings. they did not use it for stops, just hit the Motorola. I think this is another bad idea. It flies in the face of common sense and normal practices.
Thoreau on May 10 at 4:46 p.m.
I’m very familiar with the case, and maintain that it’s stupid to approach a cop with a gun. How could you not distinguish an “unmarked” cop car with that make and model, the push bars, etc. Creach knew damn well it was a cop.
PlanB on May 10 at 4:53 p.m.
Ron, yes THANK YOU there is absolutely no reason for unmarked cars when on regular patrol, and provides for more safety when they have a high visibility.
I’m no fan of Shea and Crouse, but this bill makes sense for public safety, and this is the right time to do it (rather than right after the event).
Ron_the_Cop on May 10 at 5:52 p.m.
Kivari and Plan B,
As noted by Al Loysius, Shea’s bill has issues that will probably kill the bill. Contrary to what others have said there is a likely scenario that this tragic shooting was an instantaneous misidentification by both Creach and Dep. Hirzel. Unfortunately because of the flawed SPD OIS investigation, this scenario was not eliminated because they gave credibility to Dep. Hirzel’s statements. With what I know of this investigation I wouldn’t be so inclined to give Dep. Hirzel the benefit of the doubt until certain inconsistencies were resolved to my satisfaction. The question remains in the SCSO’s IA investigation/review whether these issues will be addressed or will they rubber stamp SPD’s investigation?
I think it is best to keep it simple - routine patrol/traffic doesn’t equate with the current exemption under the existing State law for the use of unmarked vehicles by local police agencies. I really have issues from a public safety standpoint of working traffic in unmarked cars. This allows impostors to prey upon the public and for misidentification issues with the real police. Fundamentally who are the police supposed to be protecting?
Unfortunately in this encounter Creach died. Creach was no crook. Perhaps an elderly man that may have not immediately complied with the officer’s commands if they were in fact given. We are not in a war zone and the rules of engagement for local law enforcement are different than those of the military in an hostile environment. I know firsthand the dangers of police work. Six officers were killed by firearms during my tenure at Riverside PD, CA.
A simple clarification in the existing law will force local agencies to develop policies for the use of unmarked vehicles. Hopefully this will include education/training for those officers that do use unmarked cars to understand the ID issues. I know most of us that wore plain clothes and drove unmarked cars understood this and wouldn’t unduly push the envelop because we could.
For further information all are invited to read my report:
Creach OIS Investigation - A Report and Analysis
http://tinyurl.com/4ohxhd9
http://tinyurl.com/4wz2fpc (Update)
As a former police union president my biases definitely lie with the police rank and file. Having taught forensics and crime scene investigations, community oriented policing and controversial issues in law enforcement, there are definitely police policy, procedure, and training issues that need to be addressed in this case. The same can be said about the Zehm case too. Not recognizing when mistakes are made and moving to correct them, does no one any good.
I’ve tried to be fair and objective in my assessment. I’ve freely admitted I could be wrong and have been wrong in the past but constructive critique is what allows all of us to do better jobs. I have been very vocal that Steve Tucker has abdicated his duty and responsibility to the people to ensure that local law enforcement is held to a high standard and that mistakes are not swept under the rug. For this I’ve been dismissed, marginalized, accused of libel and making wide speculation by local law enforcement officials.
Sorry I’m a private citizen now and expect better of my law enforcement colleagues.
Det. Ron Wright (Retired)
Ron_the_Cop on May 10 at 6:08 p.m.
There’s a companion post now up at the Spin Control:
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/spincontrol/2011/may/10/unmarked-cop-car-bill-introduced/
Kivaari on May 10 at 6:15 p.m.
Ron, Thanks for your detailed response. I did not like slicks. I always liked to be out in obvious patrol cars. I was even able to get my last agency to switch from dark blue cars to white with good reflective markings. I wanted a light bar, since most of what we did was traffic, or breaking through traffic on a call. Even then people would look right into our eyes, and still pull out in front of us. I never had an issue raised by a business owner regarding parking on their grounds. In fact it was normal that if we didn’t do it, we heard about us not doing our job. Both agencies I worked for were small enough that we actually did property checks. We only had poorly marked and lighted cars in the early years due to small budgets. I guess to me, a Crown Vic with spot lights, antennas, push bars and electronics glowing on the inside, window bars (Portland bars) and a cage just screamed “police car”. I don’t know what Hirzel was thinking, but it seems , at least to me, that Creach was being a stubborn old man that didn’t want to listen to a punk cop. That’s based on the news reports, the statements of his prior behavior, and the end result. From what I have read, I don’t think I would have shot the old man, it just didn’t fit after he is quoted by Hirzel as saying “I don’t have to”. I’d want to know why he said that. Even though I carried an ASP baton, I never used it, and hated batons in general. I have no doubt that Hirzel used his baton, I just would not have myself. In the old days before 1975 I only hit three people with a stick. Each time it was justified, but each time it raised a stink. The one time I should have, I purposefully left it in the car, and that was a mistake. I still come down to thinking those men each own 50% of the incident.
Ron_the_Cop on May 10 at 6:56 p.m.
Kivaari,
I appreciate your comments. I wouldn’t have used the baton either. Yes, the threat was nor removed by Creach putting the gun in his rear waistband. I would have put the unit/engine between me and Creach while continuing to cover him and simply waited for back up to arrive. Of course that’s just me.
Creach by Dep Hirzel’s own statements approached from the left rear of the unmarked unit. The push bars and other lights to the front of the unmarked unit would not have been visible to Creach as he approached the unit. Once Creach got to within several feet of the driver’s door he may have seen Dep. Hirzel illuminated by his computer screen.
The $64 question is whether Dep. Hirzel is being truthful when and where he first saw Creach. It is possible that Creach got right up to the door and scared the crap out of Dep. Hirzel who reacted instantaneously shooting Creach as he jump out of his unit. Yes this is speculation but this was not eliminated as a possibility in SPD’s investigation.
Again if Dep. Hirzel had been in a marked police unit this wouldn’t be an issue. Further if we had an audio recorder (similar to airplane blackbox) and or officer worn video camera there would be no issue whether Dep. Hirzel gave commands to Creach and Creach disobeyed Dep. Hirzel’s commands. Digital audio/video recorders are now relatively cheap compared to the potential civil liability and administrative costs of this investigation.
misjustice on May 10 at 7:23 p.m.
Armchair quarterbacking isn’t worth the time to read the responses. No one knows what they would do unless they are, at that moment, confronted by a person with a gun.
Creach was wrong. Dead wrong. He didn’t learn in any of the previous meetings with law enforcement. It’s a shame that this elderly person died, but he was also old enough to know better.
lewis8457 on May 10 at 7:58 p.m.
It is all a mute point simply because the citizens of Washington state have no civil liberties when it comes to dealing with the police. The second Creach realized it was a cop he lost all is freedoms of self defense and due process of law simply because the officer had full control of his very being as far as our wonderful Washington state legislator is concerned.
That said I do believe Creach knew it was a cop car. But did he like the cops??? It was reported he was a great employer, great gardener, great pastor, great father and grandfather, and friend, but the police told us how bad he was at chasing people with his gun and how bad he was for walking on his own property with a gun. So did Mr. Creach like the police? He believed he could walk around with a six-shooter on his hip, I would bet he wasn’t the cops best friend.
So you get woke up and wander out to the shed thinking it is another theft, but he sees it is a cop car. And it makes him mad so he marches over to the car and Hirzel is either asleep or doing the John Henry either way Creach surprises him. Hirzel stumbles around gets out of the car orders Creach on his knees sees that Creach as a gun in his hand shoots him point blank. Creach falls to his knees and then backward Hirzel drags the body 5 feet from the car. Flipped on his spotlight, his buddies show up grab him and take him to the station.
But all that is, of course, speculation and meaningless. Because as Steve Tucker has told us many times and the continued justified police killing citizens, is simply because it is legal if you’re a cop. You can do what ever is at your disposal based on how warped you are and the citizens can not do anything or say anything, and if they do it just another reason to shoot them. Resisting arrest, self defense, blah, blah, blah.
I believe all police cars should be marked, gives an appearance more cops out on patrol and I like the cool blue color when they flash in my rear view mirror.
Also talking about marked cars want to get away with reckless driving, high speed in residential areas and our local SPD’s favorite running red lights at high speed? Put a blue bear sticker in the rear window of your car position behind your head. vvvvvvrrrrrrrrroooooooooommm
hamrsrscarry on May 10 at 8:17 p.m.
I’ve spent hundreds of hours studying this case, performing incident reconstructions with my two cats in my apt, and drawing many many graphic interfaces, and this is how I think it went down:
Creach: Hey Johnny Law, you throw that empty box of Hostess Tiger Tails on my property I’ll gun you down!
Deputy: Oh please proud sir, I am a dutiful servant of the public, I have no interest in littering your property with my highly sugared factory-baked goods containers, I am only here to carefully document the activities of my shift. Would you like me to depart? To exit your homeland?
Creach: No punk. I’ve had enough of you, Johnny Law. DRAW NOW
Deputy: Oh no, don’t make me do this! No please pleeeease put your pistol back, you are pointing it at me!! put it back! I don’t want to have to draw, you are a wise and giving citizen of this great county!
Creach: This is a single action and I’m cranking the hammer back and it’s gonna strike 12 DEAD THIRTY on your azz, Johnny Law. DRAW OR DIE.
Deputy: I can’t even see you through these tears welling up in my eyes! Oh sir, oh sir, oh sir, I deeply regret having to withdraw my service pistol but this is the part of the job in law enforcement that we train endlessly and think often of … but it is horrid! Oh, Dear God I must fire! Oh please forgive me sir! Oh Lord, I beseech thee let my bullet travel straight and true into this kind man’s heart and deliver him to your loving arms and tanned bosom with no delay!
Creach: Thud.
ChefGus/ John Olsen on May 10 at 8:43 p.m.
Vigilante justice is not smart… if there is time to call the police, then do it… do NOT go out on your own property with an un chambered 1911 and when told to drop your weapon and get on the ground by a police officer ignore the orders….. those “unmarked” cars are understandable and recognizable from 200 yards…. a person moving toward me with a .45 ACP in his hand is considered lethal…. him or me… sad story, but the person with the aggressive intent and the means to effect harm has to be considered lethal…. EVEN if there is not a 230 grain 11 mm round in the chamber…. that is a very potent … a Very potent shooter…D0 NOT brandish a weapon unless you are going to use it… simple… NRA, Officers Basic, and Grunt basic training… Deputy Hirzel had to feel/fear he was at risk… a .45 Cal 1911 is a Big weapon compared to the 9mm or .40 Cal that police officers carry…. just pick the two rounds up in your hand and feel them and look at them…. No Contest… there IS a reason we carried 1911’s as standard issue…. John
misjustice on May 10 at 8:50 p.m.
It’s people like Lewis & hamrsrscarry that make it easy for the police to shoot first & ask questions later. Their mentality is just amazing, isn’t it? The two of you should be in Hollywood writing some of the crime stories because your imagination is unbelievable!
hamrsrscarry on May 10 at 9:00 p.m.
TY, Gramma. Don’t you think ChefGus should be writing a newspaper column called
Mr. Obvious and His Lessons in Obviousity
Kivaari on May 10 at 9:36 p.m.
Chef Gus, Hirzel packed a Glock M21 in .45 ACP.
ChefGus/ John Olsen on May 11 at 6:50 a.m.
Kivari thanks for the info…j
Ron_the_Cop on May 11 at 7:40 a.m.
There’s a new thread for this article:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/may/11/unmarked-police-cars-targeted/
lewis8457 on May 11 at 3:47 p.m.
sorry gamma you cant take the truth, it is the law cops can gun us down at will and there is nothing we can do about it. Once a cop in Washington confronts you, you have lost all your civil liberties that living in this great nation gives you. Gone in a blink of an eye. i wonder If Creach knew that is he would have approached a car with a possible legal hit man in it wearing a uniform of a police officer. But of course it is all speculation. The truth is buried in the piles of crap we call the SVPD.
Gramma Call your buddy Tucker and ask him he will tell you.
misjustice on May 11 at 5:49 p.m.
I take the truth very well. Truth is it’s people like you that make the cops jumpy. Those that have no respect or regard for their safety. You believe he should have stood there & let Creach wave a gun around, “just because it was his property”.
It seems to me if you really believed the crap you say, you would be bowing down to these officers because you could be looking down the barrel of a pistol at any time. Better yet, you would be locking your doors & staying inside at all times.
Speculation………yes, it’s all speculation that some of you spew out as if it were truths!
zapox6 on May 11 at 7:46 p.m.
Frankly, I don’t think it is real safe for a police officer to be sitting in a car alone doing work in the dark…find a lighted area out in the open where you have good view corridors. The death of one innocent person is always of concern to all citizens. We do not want this to happen again. The case needs to be openly discussed among many people, and I see no problem with it being put on the table by our elected representatives for more open airing. I take a dim view of someone criticizing electeds who are just doing their job as being publicity hogs. Have the tapes made by the officer’s machine been made public yet? Can we hear what is on them?