Spokane7
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May 16, 2011 in City
‘We can no longer do everything for kids’
Students at Audubon Elementary line up for lunch at the North Side school Friday. With budget cuts looming, the school district is looking at every program to cover the budget deficit. Dropping bus routes and increasing costs for lunch are being discussed.
(Full-size photo)
Washington’s budget is still a work in progress, but Spokane Public Schools officials know they’re facing a budget gap between $9 million and $12 million. So with flexibility in mind, district administrators left little untouched when they handed the school board a long list of possibilities for cuts.
“The board is really focused on what’s best for kids, and we know that the public has very different ideas for what that means,” said Sue Chapin, board president. Deciding on the budget “is one of our big functions, and no decision will be taken lightly.”
Superintendent Nancy Stowell said, “We try to do as much as we can, but we have to realize we can no longer do everything for kids.”
The only decision so far – suspending class-size limits – was forced by a union deadline of May 15 to notify certificated staff of potential layoffs. The resulting 238 notifications, many of which likely will be recalled, have sent a ripple of concern through the district and the community.
“This action is unprecedented in our district,” Stowell said. “What is also unprecedented is the state’s continuing refusal to adequately fund K-12 education.”
The district has made $54 million in cuts over the past decade, due to enrollment declines and state funding challenges.
Because the school board hopes to avoid increasing class sizes, its members asked administrators to offer up optional cuts. They obliged, and 40 line items totaling more than $12 million were on a list handed out to board members during a recent budget work session.
Contrary to popular belief, no decisions have been made.
Cutting administrative pay by 3 percent is at the top of the list; that wouldn’t include principals and assistant principals, who are union-represented. Other options in the administration category include cutting up to 11 positions in the Teaching and Learning division; reducing clerical support in student services; reducing classified staff in community relations and the business office; and suspending the mentor-teacher program.
Under the category of instructional support, the suggestions include eliminating high school instructional coaches, which likely would result in those people going back to teaching and bumping less-senior teachers into layoff status; reducing elementary librarians by tightening schedules at the 34 primary schools; reducing counselors in the high schools; and reducing special-education specialists and support staff.
Suspending curriculum in several areas were also among the line items, such as human biology, Advanced Placement calculus and AP European history.
Other ideas for possible cuts included suspending elementary extracurricular programs; raising school meal prices; suspending middle school interschool activities in favor of an intramural model; eliminating late take-home and middle school activity buses; and reducing one bus route to the Moran Prairie/Ben Burr area.
“We’ve cut so much out of our budget in past years we are to the point that every option is going to be painful,” Chapin said.
While struggling with cuts, however, the district is also considering efficiencies and, potentially, a new administrative position.
School board member Rocky Treppiedi favors adding an administrator to help guide changes in the district.
“The more pressure and the more things that the board wants the administration to do, the harder it is to get them done with fewer people,” Treppiedi said.
Since the 2002-’03 school year, positions in central administration have been reduced by 14.43 percent, according to district statistics. Teaching positions have been cut by 8.84 percent. The new position would be in charge of addressing the dropout rate and creating intervention programs at all levels, for example.
“Unless and until you have someone there to focus on the cultural change, it’s extraordinarily hard to accomplish,” Treppiedi said.
Funding for the position would likely come from making other cuts to administration, he added.
“We will be looking at all aspects of the district’s $317 million budget for increased efficiencies,” Stowell said. “When we get a final decision from the Legislature on revenue, we’ll be able to be more focused in our conversations.”
Next up will be a school board budget work session Wednesday and two community forums next week. The board will have the final say on cuts.
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Dazzeetrader11 on May 16 at 12:32 a.m.
Cut further on the administration side. Keep the teachers.
have Verner sell some unwanted properties….the ones she bought. If she’s sincere about education (Condon is) verner will sell off her ill timed acquisitions and pay attention to the needs of the people…not her favorite unions who elected her with their financial support. Seem logical?
Kids are the present and future. We need them more than buildings and administrators who drink too much coffee.
ZagChuck on May 16 at 1:35 a.m.
“Cutting administrative pay by 3 percent is at the top of the list; that wouldn’t include principals and assistant principals, who are union-represented.”
This is merely a rollback on the 3% or greater increases the administrators received last year. http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/oct/14/union-targets-top-tier-salaries/ “…The pay hike for administrators stemmed from a bargaining agreement with the district’s principals union for an additional reward for years of service, district officials said. Because of a district philosophy that supervisors should be paid more than those they oversee, the pay bumps rippled up from principals to the district’s top leadership.”
Time to start reducing the number of administrators, and support staff. Cuts in pay across the board seem reasonable, for every public employee. We simply cannot afford the government the liberals have grown.
polistra on May 16 at 3:16 a.m.
Schools were never supposed to “do everything for kids”!
The kids will grow up vastly better if they don’t expect the school to “do
everything.” They might even learn to “do one or two things” for themselves!!!!!!!
Idiot educrats. Fire them all. I can imagine other fates but they’re not printable.
oneanddone on May 16 at 4:50 a.m.
Washington is going down the same road as Idaho. Cut everything to the bone: education, help for the helpless, infrastructure. BUT - WHOA - don’t touch those business tax breaks. At some point business will HAVE to share the burden the rest of us bear and pay for the privilege of living here. Or go ahead and move offshore, but then you’ll have to pay through the nose to bring your Chinese, Malaysian, Timbuktu crap back here.
ZagChuck on May 16 at 5:41 a.m.
One and Done,
It’s a nice attempt at spin, straight from the talking points sheet delivered by the WEA, but it misses the point. The “Budget Probelm” in Olympia isn’t a lack of money, it’s a lack of fiscal discipline.
Our State government has more revenue than it ever has, and it’s going to spend every dime of the $32 Billion it takes in. That’s $4 Billion more than the last bienium.
You can try to blame the “tax breaks” for businesses, but they’re paying plenty. It’s time to start putting spending limits on our government, at every level.
At least 1150 District 81 employees make over $50.00 an hour. I’m certain that’s not the pay rate of teachers and staff in Malaysia, China, or Timbuktu.
I’m just saying….
hawken on May 16 at 6:31 a.m.
The spending cuts in our public education system will have no measurable, downward affect on the final outcome of student education.
The U.S. Department of Education, started by Jimmy Carter, is a demonstrable, dismal failure to the tune of some $80 billion a year. We have spent hundreds of billions on public education with dismal results. Throwing more money at the problem has never been an effective solution.
Elementary schools prepare students for high school. High School prepares students for college. College does not teach our youth “how to think.” “Tenured” professors, whom are protected by their “tenure,” program our youth with a far left world view. The idea that universities are an “open marketplace of ideas,” is laughable.
The link below is the one hour documentary produced by the National Inflation Association.
.
The National Inflation Association has other excellent resources, written papers and videos concerning the “coming,” “devastating,” “hyper-inflation” and how to prepare for it.
Inflation is already upon us and will be getting much worse.
Public education and public universities are one of the most “government inflated” Scams in Liberal America.
JBlim on May 16 at 6:40 a.m.
It’s really sad to our kids’ schools gutted so we can save a few dollars in taxes for bunch of big mouth Republican blowhards. What’s wrong with you guys?
ZagChuck on May 16 at 6:46 a.m.
Jblim,
They’re bloated with administration costs, and they need to go on a diet.
But they’re not being gutted. That’s only another leftist talking point.
DickAdams on May 16 at 7:04 a.m.
The administration office is bloated. And the guts of Rocky Trepppiedi wanting to hire another administrator speaks volumes about the board. Leave it to a city employee like rocky to want to hire more people. Reminds me of Verner, who is like a blind dog in a meat market and should have been recalled long ago.
johnclarke on May 16 at 7:19 a.m.
Hawken, I thought Spokane Falls is a public university.
“Tenured” professors, whom are protected by their “tenure,” program our youth with a far left world view. The idea that universities are an “open marketplace of ideas,” is laughable.
Well with you stemming the tide against all that Liberal thinking, I think we are all safe.
What, finals all over and nothing to do? I have a bunch of weeding and landscaping I need done Hawken. Do you have a job this summer ?
misjustice on May 16 at 7:39 a.m.
@ Dick, I caught that part too. Really? Hire ANOTHER administrator? When that is an area that seriously needs to be cut; not only in numbers but in amount of pay.
Orphan on May 16 at 7:45 a.m.
John I know you can do better than the insults you seem to hurl daily. All these sidetrips to personally atttack Hawkin take away from your agruments so much that you may as well not even bother.
horse_feathers on May 16 at 7:59 a.m.
I agree schools were never meant to do everything for kids.
westerly on May 16 at 8:15 a.m.
Public schools is an institution created by government with super high salaries being paid to administrators, complements from Spokane taxpayers. This was the status quo for last 30 years…every state could afford these salaries and year after year of colas . World has changed right here in Washington…recession, depression, what ever….we the people cannot afford to pay the salaries of these people anymore. The state is broke also with their liberal hire, hire hire, spend spend spend thinking. Just like the real estate market, housing in Spokane and Wa. is at 2003 levels in pricing. So should District 81 highest salaries, come way down by 10-20 percent. Welcome to the new world! But it won’t happen, they are entrenched with greed , power, avarice and “you know who we are?” We are the leaders! The peasants will take the cuts!
johnclarke on May 16 at 8:18 a.m.
actually, I don’t know…those are pretty darn good insults and I don’t think I need to do better. Sorry Orphan, extreme views and hyperbole will be challenged - left or right. Also, people that create a fake identity and life should be challenged too.
PlanB on May 16 at 8:26 a.m.
Zag, that actual revenue rarely goes down is what always astounds me. The piddling 3% pay rollback is pathetic, if they were at all serious it would be at least 15%.
Is anyone really surprised at Treppiedi’s proposal, and why would anyone think he is capable of making good decisions? That’s one administrative position that can be cut ASAP.
Albert on May 16 at 8:32 a.m.
“What do you think Stanley?…I don’t know Olly” or how about “What’s on first?…whose on 2nd?”
The Board is endeavoring to work within financial restraints, however the various unions, continue to promote nothing but selfish quagmires. The result is zero.
Too many “special” programs and a complete lack of focus on the “basics of education”. If you would like to get the budget in order, stop the foolish spending on “feel goods” and get back to the basics.
Of course, we spent 20+ billion alone in stupidity funds in supporting Pakistan. http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/05/16/its-all-your-money-us-aid-pakistan.
Hello? 20 billion that could have been used to help with schools? Oh well, corruption rules at all levels, thus the various unions will promote a final stalemate wherein their “associates” will be laid off. As Forest Gump’s mother would say, “Stupid is as stupid does”. All for what?
hawken on May 16 at 8:50 a.m.
I like the the quote by a prominent comedian as well:
“There is no cure for stupid.”
leekinny on May 16 at 8:51 a.m.
My youngest is taking human biology now and is scheduled to take AP Calculus next year. You should see the stuff they have the kids doing in pre Calculas.
It doesn’t seem wise for any society, especially ours, to cut back on science and mathematics.
liberal_in_right_wing_land on May 16 at 9:00 a.m.
Funny all the people think that Washington is the only state in the country with a budget problem. Last I checked the republican controlled states are having the same problems…..all of which was started under a republican president during the 1980’s.
Stop acting like this is a Spokane and Washington problem caused by Mary Verner or Christine Gregoire. When people do that it just makes them look ignorant saying this was caused by only two people and happening in only one state. Budget issues are happening all over the country and have mostly been caused by Reaganomics started in the 1980’s……and that is even being said by Reagan’s OWN economic advisors like David Stockman.
hawken on May 16 at 9:07 a.m.
I thought the topic was public education, how much wasted money we have spent on it and how ineffective it is compared to other Western nations.
nslopeofw on May 16 at 9:11 a.m.
No, academics should be left alone. All extra-curricular activities should be cut, and all the staff that goes with them. Schools should teach. The rest is for ones family to except the burden. While we are at it, what about all the free meals and “daycare”?
detroitdude on May 16 at 9:16 a.m.
“I thought the topic was public education, how much wasted money we have spent on it and how ineffective it is compared to other Western nations.”
But then you’d say the other Westernized nations are socialists or something like that. Hell, let’s take it one step farther and eliminate public education altogether! We don’t need to make sure our children is learning, it’s been proven you can speak broken English like that and somehow become a two term President, what more do you need to get ahead in life? Like health care, education is a privilege and should only be given to those children who’s parents can afford it. They should have had the foresight to save money to pay for it BEFORE they decided to make babies.
nslopeofw on May 16 at 9:17 a.m.
Liberal,
Reagan went out in the 80’s. Time to pick a new target. Maybe Bush? Clinton? Bush2? Obama?
If all of our elected officials since the great man (Reagan) havent done what you think should have been done, then blame them……I’m sure you voted for a few disappointments.
Clinging to your liberal ideals (blaming the GOP) is not going to change anything.
hawken on May 16 at 9:29 a.m.
It will be very revealing to see:
How many will actually watch and comment with specifics on the 1 hr Documentary by the National Inflation Association I posted regarding the “Scam” of the college education.
http://inflation.us/videos.html
EdubU on May 16 at 9:30 a.m.
Those who can; TEACH. Those who cannot, complain and pass laws about teaching.
liberal_in_right_wing_land on May 16 at 9:32 a.m.
nslopeofw - Yes, Reagan (among the WORST presidents in history) has obviously been out of office since the 80’s, but if you don’t think his economic policies are still in place and have been carried on by both democrat and republican presidents, then you need to learn about our economic system a little bit more.
Every single president since Reagan started de-regulating everything that allowed corporations to get bigger and the rich to get richer have been paid off by these same men to carry and continue these same economic policies to benefit the few and hurt the rest.
Sorry, unlike the republicans who REFUSE to say they ever did anything wrong, I AM blaming Clinton AND Obama along with Reagan and Bush and Bush 2 for continuing these economic polices that benefit only 1% of the population and screws the rest.
Amazing that it’s also since the 1980’s when these economic policies have started that our education system has slowly deteriorated into what it is today and we are no longer even close to the top in the world rankings in education…..and yes this was caused by both republican AND democratic presidents….however it was all started under a republican.
nslopeofw on May 16 at 9:32 a.m.
LOL, good one, those who teach do so to have benies for life, and the summers off!
nslopeofw on May 16 at 9:38 a.m.
Well, Liberal, if you really want to get real, you can go back to the actual WORST president in history, Jimmy Carter. And, i think History will show Obama to be a lot worse than Carter, Reagan, or Bush. He has done nothing to fix this country, and he even owned congress for 2 years. Think about that…………………Demo prez, and demo house/senate, still the country sinks. That may reveal itself to be the worst ever.
Rand on May 16 at 9:43 a.m.
Hey Detroit. If liberal policies worked so well then why are they “reclaiming” large portions of Detroit? The rust belt reminds me of when I visited eastern Europe after the fall of communism. Those two are perfect examples of what happens when everyone is “taken care of” by the progressives.
misjustice on May 16 at 9:44 a.m.
“He has done nothing to fix this country…”
Not true, and you know it. Here’s a short list, which does not include all of President Obama’s accomplishments: the repeal of DADT, the push for marriage rights for all adults, the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, the Affordable Health Care Act, the bolstering of SCHIP for poor kids, expansion of Pell Grants to help poor kids attend college, and 2 more women sit on SCOTUS.
You may not like what has been done, but to say nothing has been done to fix this country (which was left completely tattered by Shrub) is a lie!
leekinny on May 16 at 9:45 a.m.
from the president of the Spokane teachers union…
http://spokaneea.org/static_content/dis.pdf
SPOKANE EDUCATION ASSOCIATION…
http://spokaneea.org/index.php/newsletter
Spokane School District 81 - facts
http://www.schoolmatters.com/schools.aspx/q/page=dp/did=2593
detroitdude on May 16 at 9:45 a.m.
Hawken says: “How many will actually watch and comment with specifics on the 1 hr Documentary by the National Inflation Association I posted regarding the “Scam” of the college education.”
This story is about cutbacks in Spokane schools, no? What’s that got to do with college? Further, only a truly uneducated person would say that higher education is a scam. I rest my case though, you dig yourself a deep enough hole usually. If you want to look at where the “scam” is, look at all these totally online for profit colleges that are popping up and leaving students in horrible debt whether they graduate or not.
http://projectonstudentdebt.org/files/File/Debt_Facts_and_Sources.pdf
hawken on May 16 at 9:47 a.m.
EdubU
Did you watch the 1 hr Documentary I posted above? Looks like you might possibly be one of the “tenured” professors.” Maybe, I’m wrong on this point.
Are you a tenured professor?
So, what is your view that our universities are an “open marketplace for ideas.”
http://inflation.us/videos.html
johnclarke on May 16 at 9:47 a.m.
Yes, the topic is education and how (insert standard right wing nut hyperbole here) “the libs have screwed it up”.
Yeah, I guess the GOP has done such a fabulous job with education, saving money etc.
So; PROVIDE A BETTER EXAMPLE !!!! Complain, complain complain, that is all the right can do. No solutions, just the same statements over and over again.
leekinny on May 16 at 9:56 a.m.
hawken: that would be a waste of time and energy, because it comes from an extreme right-wing tool. Brain cells would be in serious risk,too.
misjustice on May 16 at 9:58 a.m.
I agree leekinny. Plus I don’t want to infect my computer with a virus; I never click on links posted by the hyper-right wing faction of the regressive party.
biker on May 16 at 9:58 a.m.
Pay cuts, not rollbacks across the board. Union and non-Union employees should be affected equally. That is how we must meet the shortfall that was created by the artificial windfall of the economy and housing boom beginning around 1998. Wages rose incredibly in those years as did housing values. But guess what, values collapsed because they were unrealistic…a bubble. Why should the public sector gains in wages and benefit packages be affected differently? It is simply not sustainable. Get it?
detroitdude on May 16 at 9:59 a.m.
Rand: “Hey Detroit. If liberal policies worked so well then why are they “reclaiming” large portions of Detroit? The rust belt reminds me of when I visited eastern Europe after the fall of communism. Those two are perfect examples of what happens when everyone is “taken care of” by the progressives.”
You’re over simplifying the issue to begin with, and this article isn’t about Detroit. Going into an in depth analysis of why and how is off topic. If you’d like to debate it though, post your email and we can talk about it.
hawken on May 16 at 10:01 a.m.
leekinny
Thank you for the response. Liberals such as you will not even consider facts that oppose your uber-left propaganda.
I suppose that I will get a similar response from other members of the Spokane commune. But, let’s see.
nslopeofw on May 16 at 10:05 a.m.
Misjustice,
None of that has any bearing on our FU economy. Who cares about the fluff? While he had all that power (the first two years) instead of squandering it on fluff, he could have saved the economy. Instead, he destroyed it.
You might think DADT was more important than the economy, but i dont.
jddavis on May 16 at 10:09 a.m.
@MisJ
With all due respect, I fail to see how repeal of DADT (a Clinton inacted policy), the push for same sex marraige, the Ledbetter Act, ObamaCare, SCHIP, increase in Pell Grants, and gender of members of the SCOTUS have shown to have made strides to fix the country.
Many of these topics increase government spending; none of them increase jobs or increase revenue by way of taxes. What has President Obama done to improve the economy? What has our government done since January 2009 to improve our economy? Please don’t say we spent a dollar to save a dime…
hawken on May 16 at 10:14 a.m.
Here’s my point, which has been sufficiently demonstrated above:
The uber-left has little or no intellectual response to documented facts.
Instead, we can count on “character assassination,” “accusations of racism” and ad hominem attacks of every other kind.
All of the above, capitalizes the intellectual bankruptcy of American Liberalism.
However, I will check back on this string throughout the day. Just in case there might be one uber-left liberal who actually watched the 1 hr Documentary and then responds with specifics.
http://inflation.us/videos.html
Then, we might actually embark upon an “intellectual debate” about the issues.
misjustice on May 16 at 10:14 a.m.
Okay, call it fluff if you like Northslope. I didn’t say any of his accomplishments were more important than the economy, I responded to your lie that he’d done nothing. And I also admitted that you may not like what he’d done, but to continue to state that he’s done nothing is simply not true.
And BTW Mr. Boner ran on job creation in 2010 so I’d like to see the regressive and the tea bag party’s plans for jobs…waiting…still waiting. Oh, that’s right, they are too busy redefining rape, defunding PP and PBS, and rewriting history to progress a jobs’ bill. My bad!
Also, in case you didn’t know, the economy didn’t tank on January 20, 2009.
jddavis on May 16 at 10:23 a.m.
Certainly the economy didn’t tank January 2009. President Obama ran on the promise of fixing the ecomomy (among other things) and he hasn’t done it, hasn’t even come close.
President Obama wanted the job, and he got it. His promises on the economy were the proximate reason he was elected; he has failed miserably in his efforts. How long will President Bush be to blame for President Obama’s failure(s) to do what he said he’d do with the economy and other issues like war (3 now, 2 when he took office), GITMO, etc?
misjustice on May 16 at 10:32 a.m.
I dunno, Jdd, I guess it takes more than 2 years and 4 months to fix something so completely broken?
“As the Wall Street Journal noted in the last month of Bush’s term, the former president had the “worst track record for job creation since the government began keeping records.” And job creation under Bush was anemic long before the recession began.”
“Bush’s supply-side economics “fostered the weakest jobs and income growth in more than six decades,” along with “sluggish business investment and weak gross domestic product growth,” the Center for American Progress’ Joshua Picker explained. “On every major measurement” of income and employment, “the country lost ground during Bush’s two terms,” the National Journal’s Ron Brownstein observed, parsing Census data.”
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/01/07/obama-more-jobs-bush/
2 years and 4 months to fix six decades of decay?
westerly on May 16 at 10:45 a.m.
Biker: right on….these salaries are inflated bubbles like home prices….now bubble is gone and housing prices crashed…next salaries of gov workers on the high end…we can’t afford them anymore..blame bush, Clinton, whomever, doesn’t matter the administrator’s salaries must come down to meet today’s economy. Ift they don’t deflate, I see a civil war coming in next 50 years, the haves and the have not’s. In the good old USA. Dist 81 from Rollof, Rocky, Stowell and others just can’t figure it out…their overbloated structure is whats wrong..all over USA..same structure in all schools. Supers and assistant supers and every damn dept is headed by a super and assistant supers on down the line. Hope it all collapses..only then will they ‘bend’.
jddavis on May 16 at 10:55 a.m.
MisJ—I went to that link, and the story is dated January 9, 2009. Pelosi’s comment(s) are the basis of the article, and you know the level of credibility of her statements.
I nosed around on the bls.gov web site, and couldn’t find anything to support your claim of how much good President Obama has done in the way of creating jobs. He promised the unemployment rate wouldn’t be over 8%, and it is well above that.
All the statements about a Republican job bill, and they have only had the majority in the House for 4 months. President Obama enjoyed a Democrat House and Senate for a full 2 years, and alas, nothing. Heck, the Democrats couldn’t even put a budget together when they had full control.
My stance is all politicians regardless of party, should put up or shut up. The time for talk and posturing has long since passed. The addage “actions speak louder than words” knows no political affiliation.
EdubU on May 16 at 11:03 a.m.
Slope, spend some quality time in a classroom, you’ll see. You are misinformed as are most others.
greenlibertarian on May 16 at 11:05 a.m.
Haysus Kristo, a troll is spamming and an idiot thinks Verner has something to do with District 81’s budget.
Confederacy of Dunces.
nslopeofw on May 16 at 11:06 a.m.
MisJ,
First, i dont think the repubs are doing much, either. Bohner is nothing to me. He lacks the backbone to do what needs to be done. Just another politician. But, all you Obama supporters need to realize…..the man had both the house and senate, and still blew it. Nothing he has done has been good for our economy, and most likely has/will hurt it. Blind following of him because he is liberal is not solving anything, Its helping him to hurt us.
nslopeofw on May 16 at 11:08 a.m.
Edubu’
You mean like the volunteering we do every week to help the teachers run their classes? That kind of time? Perhaps, you could come with me and help me do my job, for free?
misjustice on May 16 at 11:09 a.m.
Jjd; here’s a link to a Wall Street Journal article that I think the previous link pulled its numbers from (also from Jan. 09). Note the chart on job creation; even “the worst president ever” Jimmy Carter created more jobs than Bush Jr.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/
misjustice on May 16 at 11:14 a.m.
Well, Northslope, I don’t blindly follow anyone; he is POTUS, not a miracle worker. His job performance, on the economy and other issues, will be judged by the voters in 2012.
Given where the economy was when he took office I belive that he has worked to turn things around. Has the economy rebounded quickly enough to satisfy me? NO! But I highly doubt that McCain and what’s her name could have done any better, given the circumstances.
Dazzeetrader11 on May 16 at 11:21 a.m.
J..one doesn’t need to create jobs when the unemployment rate is 5% or under. Full employment with the Bush years. Kind of an empty argument you have there. It’s Obama that’s generated lots of this trouble.
Back to the topic though. Cut cut snip snip. The solution to much of this is to
a. Cut the Admintration (as I said in the first post) by 20% in no of people.
b.Cut their support folks (sorry).
c. Reduce the afterschool programs by 50% (just the beginning)
d. Nuke the unions who are behind these huge salaries and benefits.
e. Extend the schoolyear by 1 month. You should see what China’s doing in education. We’re falling behind.
f. Don’t cut the teachers but cut their salaries by 10%.
g. Restore the family!. Families and parents don’t take care of their kids all too much.They really DO expect schools to be babysitters. Done homework with your 10 year old lately? I do.
Brings everyone closer and lightens the burden on the schools.
Publci schools are mostly a mess now (unions). Kids grow up by TV…not the parents. Kids need direction and examples of goood thinking and discipline. We need families. None of this will work without family doing what the family should do. Loss of that one structure has and will cause disintegration of schools and society. Rant over!.
misjustice on May 16 at 11:32 a.m.
Raising CAFE standards, done under the Obama administration (another accomplishment) helped FORD to post largest 1st quarter profits in 13 years. The auto industry is recovering slowly as the economy incrementally improves.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/04/26/ap/business/main20057673.shtml
GM is also posting gains (some attributed to the earthquake in Japan) as this post pulled from the Wall Street Journal attests to. Oops, wasn’t it President Obama that “bailed out” GM? Another accomplishment? Maybe?
http://www.frumforum.com/us-car-companies-regain-lost-ground
Here’s where Frum pulled his info from:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704436004576298343719183556.html
Perhaps not allowing GM to fail wasn’t such a bad idea?
addyh on May 16 at 11:37 a.m.
These comments are getting mightily off-topic. This is a story about the District 81 budget, please stick to that topic.
And Hawken, quit posting the link to your 1-hour documentary. I left it in a couple times, people can find it if they want to see it.
Thanks,
Addy Hatch
Dazzeetrader11 on May 16 at 11:41 a.m.
J quit posting the Obama car industry story. It’s not correct and it’s severely off topic.
hawken on May 16 at 11:55 a.m.
Addy Hatch
City Editor
The link I posted was OBVIOUSLY NOT my point, which you fallaciously single out.
I see that you continue to pay more attention to me than the point.
You have deleted my posts in the past based upon your personal bias.
Of course, you own the “delete trigger.”
Dazzeetrader11 on May 16 at 12:02 p.m.
Easy there Hawkster…we need ya;)
hawken on May 16 at 12:03 p.m.
Followup:
Any Hatch, City Editor, has a history of “biased” intervention on this blog.
But then, that’s only my “informed opinion.”
hawken on May 16 at 12:06 p.m.
Dazze: I refuse to be intimidated by “biased opinion” and misrepresentation that simply has more authority than I do.
My opinions here certainly, should have no less weight than the uber-left name callers that go unchallenged when they are clearly in violation of blog policy. Repeatedly!
detroitdude on May 16 at 12:09 p.m.
@Dazzee: A couple of your points for fixing things actually make sense. However, I disagree with points “c” and “g”.
After school programs have proven to be really good for kids. I know you didn’t say eliminate all, but 50% is a lot. The main reason I think these programs are important is because whatever it is, athletics, student council, after hours tutoring, music etc. are all positive reinforcements for kids. When you take these things away, that is when kids tend to fall in with “the wrong crowd”, start doing drugs, acting out in class, skipping school and the like.
As far as restoring the family, ALL parents SHOULD be active with their children’s academic career. Now, if you are a stay at home mother/father, or even if you are home because you are unemployed, you should be able to devote enough time to helping your kids with their homework. Part of the problem is many households have two working parents, and while that fact does not absolve them from the responsibility they have to their children, it makes it a whole lot harder to put in that extra time. I’m sure many parents do the best they can, but it doesn’t always work out perfectly. Along those lines, kids are kids, they are not adults, and if it takes turning off the TV, taking the playstation controllers and cell phone away to fix slipping grades then parents need to do just that. Again, you’re a parent first and friend second.
Other than that I think some cuts COULD be beneficial here, from the top down.
detroitdude on May 16 at 12:10 p.m.
Yeah but Hawken you’re making a mountain out of a molehill. All she said was don’t post the link tons of times lol.
mikeln on May 16 at 12:11 p.m.
The fall of a country always starts with a decline in education. The wealthy are busy building a middle class in china and india, that’s where the money is. They have no plans to employ americans in the future so why educate them. The powers that be can put us trillions of dollors in debt for contract wars while gutting education. Now, we fight among ourselves about providing living wage jobs to americans. The violin is playing folks and it’s our bought and paid for elected official picking the tune.
hawken on May 16 at 12:17 p.m.
Detroit:
The molehill is a mountain, which you personally have not had to climb, because of your liberal world view.
addyh on May 16 at 12:22 p.m.
Hawken, as I clearly told you, I left the link in this thread in a couple of spots. Linking to it repeatedly is spamming. It has nothing to do with your world view or mine.
Addy Hatch
Dazzeetrader11 on May 16 at 12:30 p.m.
Mike..it’s up to parents (you) to build your families. It’s not up to the Corps or government….or even the wealthy who have their own families.
Corps etc go to China and India because the workers ask for reasonable pay and there are no unions to disrupt.
Message: Lose the WEA, NEA, and things will be restored.
Education is the future.no doubt. Everyone is going to have to make critical choices between essential services and the fluffy services.
It’s bigger problem when the Administrators don’t teach. Unions have a “say so” on wages , bendits, etc. And for that, the cost goes up and not by a little bit. Rid us of the union contracts and let the teachers teach…….it’s what they like to do anyway. But seriously…those administrators are locked in and untouchable with their union deal. WEA needs to go find some honest work.
gkambs on May 16 at 12:36 p.m.
“We can no longer do everything for kids”
Maybe that’s the problem, perhaps we need a Superintendent that can focus on the basics, teaching our children to read write and do arithmetic. You have been in charge for 4 years and you hold the worst record in the entire state of Washington with the highest amount of suspensions, highest amount of Drop-outs, the lowest on time graduation rates, and for our kids who do actually graduate you have produced the highest college remedial math rate in the state. No other district even comes close.
According to the Washington State Board for Community and
Technical Colleges, Statewide 54% of community and technical college students who graduated from high school in 2008 took pre-college (also known as remedial) classes in 2007-08 But not in school District 81 that number is over 90%
“The district has made $54 million in cuts over the past decade, due to enrollment declines and state funding challenges.”
Really Ms. Stowell? I am not sure who gave you the budget information, certainly not the OSPI the below numbers are actual district 81 revenues from all sources as published.
1997-98 - 202,116,986 (thats 202 million)
1998-99 - 209,473,987
1999-00 - 225,780,975
2000-01 - 238,525,165
2001-02 - 250,898,105
2002-03 - 261,631,642
2003-04 - 257,687,365
2004-05 - 258,685,433
2005-06 - 269,637,475
2006-07 - 279,056,483
2007-08 - 293,121,275
2008-09 - 308,207,350
While enrollment went down -8.65% in the above time frame, 32,055 students in 1997 to 29,282 in the 2008-09 school year. Revenues increased 52.49% or 106 million
http://www.k12.wa.us/safs/reports.asp
So where did you cut the 54 million?
According to the Spokesman Review:
“Spokane Public Schools grants rose from $2.6 million during the 2008-09 to $17.3 million so far in 2009-10” Also, according the Spokesman Review School District 81 has some of the highest paid administrators in the county.
Top administrator salaries for Spokane, Central Valley, Mead school districtsFebruary 6, 2010
“We’ve cut so much out of our budget in past years we are to the point that every option is going to be painful,” Chapin said.”
Remember earlier this year when teachers stormed a school board meeting about a unanimous administrative pay raise vote by the board? The money is there it just RARELY gets to the classroom. Now, Ms Stowell (who makes over $250K a year) “proposes” an administrative pay cut of 3% what a joke!
I have not seen the 2010-11 salaries for administrators that caused teachers to take a stand. I have seen some numbers to back up the need for school board and administrative reform.
THIS IS NOT UNCOMMON. A 54% increase in 5 years for Staci Vesneske, her total salary and benefits 2004-05, $114,402.00
2008-09 base salary $123,374.00
Other salary $13,366.00
Total salary $142,996.00
Insurance benefits $15,235.00
MandBen $18,096.00
Total other benefits $33,331.00
Total salary and
benefits 2008-09, $176,327.00
Now lets take back 3% of that to show the public how much our hard working administration is willing to sacrifice “for the kids”. Is the public really going to keep drinking this cup of tea the district is serving?
hawken on May 16 at 12:41 p.m.
For the late comers to this string. The point that I “sufficiently made” above is no longer “sufficiently clear”, since Andy Hatch, city editor, has decided to delete some of my posts responding to specific people in rebuttal.
I simply asked a civil question of several of these liberal posters above. Namely, had they actually read the link I posted above.
To date, none have acknowledged they actually read the link and considered the documented facts.
Of course, they have no obligation to respond nor read the link as a part of civil debate. Which makes my point.
DickAdams on May 16 at 12:44 p.m.
Hey liberal: Your post at 9:00am says budget issues are happening all over the country, blah blah blah. Don`t forget everything is relative. Take another look at some states making the tough decisions. I wish Gregoire would take the hint but she is too busy counting noses for votes and the budget be damned.
hamrsrscarry on May 16 at 12:48 p.m.
I don’t know if the threadjackers and linkspammers like what’s his name up there have taken this thread soooo far astray it cannot be recovered, but I shall try -
the real price the Koch bros and assorted evildoers of teabaggery are forcing upon America thru their machinations and deranged ideologies is the defunding of public education and creating a future of service workers and undereducated Americans who cannot stand up to the global economic challenges.
Just wait and see. We’ve handed the globe to the Chinese now. They will eat us for dinner.
Thanks you tax grubbing simpletons on the extreme right. You’ve just doomed us.
misjustice on May 16 at 12:50 p.m.
gkambs, I do recall the SR story on pay increases for administrators…but I don’t recall how large the increase was/is. Do you? Does the 3% proposed cut eliminate the entire increase?
Thanks for an excellent post, btw.
jddavis on May 16 at 12:53 p.m.
gkambs—Excellent post! I had to look at the value of the dollar over that period of time, just to be fair to the numbers.
That $202M in 1997 equates roughly to $270.16M in 2009; still a $38M increase over the decade. From a said $54M decrease to an actual $38M increase is a big disparity; where does the $92M difference come from?
misjustice on May 16 at 12:58 p.m.
gkambs, I found the article about teachers addressing the board meeting on October 13, 2010. The article stated that the administrators’ pay increase was 3%, so for them to “give back” 3% just means that they still break even; unlike the teachers… Oh, and some got increases of MORE than 3%…
From the October 13, 2010 SR article:
“…While the state pays an average of $59,929 toward administrative salaries, the rest comes from local levy dollars. In the Spokane district, 63 administrators have a base salary of $100,000 or higher.”
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/oct/13/teachers-union-protests-administrative-pay-raises/
hcamper on May 16 at 1:12 p.m.
All these comments, but not one realistic, usable constructive comment which could help the district contain costs. Generic, overall comments such as reducing administrators salaries only serve to show how litlle you know or understand of governance. Boys, the car will not drive itself. Let’s see some realistic ideas. I surely don’t know enough about the situation, but do trust the school board is working in the citizens and students best interest.
CougarGold on May 16 at 1:18 p.m.
srccpa - I had to laugh at the irony of your post. If anyone is expecting usable solutions or ideas in these forums, they’re kidding themselves. These forums are presumably only here as a place for each of the political extemes to rant against each other and blame all presidents from Carter through Obama for the shape we’re in. None of these comments ever address actual resolution, only blame-fixing against whichever party is polar opposite to any posters particular view.
I keep looking for a pearl in these threads and only ever come up with sand. But I keep looking….
detroitdude on May 16 at 1:19 p.m.
I think a superintendent making 250k per year is not in the students best interest. I’ll gladly do her job and do it better for half that money.
PlanB on May 16 at 1:20 p.m.
gkambs, thanks for posting that. I saw similar figures a few years ago when I was asked to be on a special education advisory committee several years ago, just when the district started up it’s stupid lawsuit against the state claiming they aren’t funding basic education. The ‘committee’ was made up of friends and rubber stampers that did nothing, apparently could not understand math, ignored their own data when it didn’t fit their agenda, etc… The state has been funding schools plenty, but the districts need to focus and the OSPI needs to get rid of the ghost of WASL and other idiotic programs that waste huge sums of money and take away from kids getting an education.
gkambs on May 16 at 1:30 p.m.
Thanks Jddavis & misjustice for the kind words
Jddavis; 92 million is a big disparity, in the private sector that would raise a suspicion that someone has “cooked the books”
misjustice; thanks for providing that link to the October 13 SR article, I think I commented on that thread. As seen in my above post, showing only “base pay” leaves out a significant amount of other pay and benefits. If you add those additional amounts you come out with over 200 administrators making over 100k. Thats a significant difference but, the district only gave the SR what they asked for “base salaries”.
rodmanrules on May 16 at 1:45 p.m.
SCHOOL Employee PAYROLL. The website below will give you the ability to look at yearly pay for all public school staff. It gives you different options to search. i.e. by name (if you know it), by School, School position, etc http://www.theolympian.com/stateteachersalary/
gkambs on May 16 at 2:09 p.m.
Plan B;
School district 81 spent almost 1 million in that lawsuit to sue the state for MORE special education money (985K) only to lose big time and get chastised by the Supreme Court. Anyone can read the decision if they don’t believe me. I bet if asked D-81 can spin that expenditure into a victory. I can tell you this much they sure didn’t put out a press release when that decision was handed down.
What else the public does not know is that our federal government awards the state of Washington “Billions” every year to educate our children with special educational needs. By going to the DOE’s website and searching for our state superintendents name you can see how much our state is awarded every year. FFY 2010: $11,505,211,000.00 (11 Billion) was available for the state of Washington. How much Did the OSPI take out of that? Answer: Only $219,804,594.00 (219 million) I wonder if district 81 asked the OSPI why they left all that special education money on the table before suing them.
hawken on May 16 at 2:17 p.m.
gkambs
Your most recent post underlines the fact that we can foolishly continue to throw billions at our public education system with no positive, measurable results.
One definition of “insanity” is to keep doing the same thing over and over again, while at the same time, expecting different results.
CougarGold on May 16 at 3:09 p.m.
Hawken - Your comment:
“There are plenty of “pearls” on this string. That you don’t accept them is understandable. Your primary purpose is to elevate yourself by putting down everyone else. A bit elitist don’t you think?
Show us some of your “pearls of great wisdom.”
I take exception to your first comment. I didn’t put anyone down, certainly not to the extent you do in any number of posts. Elitist? I don’t think so nor do I even understand how you would come to that view.
As for the second part, if I had a pearl of wisdom to share, I would. I don’t think for a second that I have the answer to the shortcomings of public education or its funding methods.
misjustice on May 16 at 3:19 p.m.
@ Cougar, he’s just trying to pick a fight…
nslopeofw on May 16 at 3:20 p.m.
Yo Addy hatch,
Do you aprove of the term teabagger, or teabaggery? How come i never see you censor the users of said vile words? You have no problem going after Hawken.
MrNatural on May 16 at 3:23 p.m.
Wow! …some thread here…
I think that schools in general have evolved over these many years to not only teach education but to raise the communities’ children…
When a child comes to class ill, disturbed, unwashed, or with a myriad of problems and needs; the schools have over time attempted to address these issues with programs and other assistance. I’m not saying that this is necessarily the schools responsibility but by trying to deal with these issues in turn is intended to help the student affected and those children around the affected student who would otherwise lose a quality education.
I believe that the rearing and education of our nation’s children is of the highest priority and I’m saddened to see that those people who are dedicated to helping our nation’s children are being pilloried by the self serving.
ManleyPointer on May 16 at 3:31 p.m.
Please, hamrsrscarry, more, MORE, MORE!!! I love it when you blame ” the Koch bros and assorted evildoers of teabaggery” for all the ills of the world! Very cool. Very constructive.
Smoking weed makes me smarter, better looking and funny as hell. Apparently it makes you write odd sentences about bufoonish conspiracies.
Please keep writing!!
hawken on May 16 at 3:33 p.m.
Self appointed, elitist, me thinks, is accurate.
CougarGold on May 16 at 3:41 p.m.
Hawken - That is simply my observation, not an elitist comment. And misjustice is probably right, you’re probably just trying to pick a fight. Try someone else.
gkambs on May 16 at 3:57 p.m.
I know I’ll get attacked for this, and not that it matters but I consider myself a moderate I like and dislike what both leading political parties bring to the table. But the fact that opinions are free (because everyone has one) gives us all the power to post whatever we want. We can call each other, leftists, rightists, moderates, extremists, liberals, tea-baggers, whatever. But friends, if we could please put our differences aside and concentrate on the task at hand.
I see the issue in this thread to be the poor state of our public education and our current administrations inability to fix it. We go through this every year, they never have enough money, they don’t have the resources, everyones cutting their funding, it’s not their fault, their doing everything they can. etc. etc. If you believe that then stop reading. There are 100’s of examples of districts doing it right and not making excuses for their results. Since we have a democratic party controlled state I will simply use one of the many democratic party answers for this example. (there are many examples of what works from all sides)
Consider this: One of the poorest parts of Sacramento mostly african americans, the district is getting ready to shut down the high school because they admit they can’t teach these students. Someone steps in and says don’t close it down, let me take it over and I will teach them, the district agrees, the teacher’s union spends 750K to try and stop it, but fails. Now the school has not only an exceptional record but a reverse achievement gap. The difference between that school district and ours is; that district admitted they couldn’t teach the kids and their answer was to close down the school.
One question we should be asking ourselves is, if our public school system in Spokane is continually producing the worst record in the state by every measurable standard and they give us the same story every year, can we really expect them to fix the problem they created.
The below link is a great success story for what works. One of their points is the unions do an excellent job advocating for the needs of the teachers and endorsing the right school board candidates, but who’s advocating for the needs of the children?
Sorry to be redundant but once again, we have the highest drop out rate in the state, the highest remedial math rates in the state, the highest suspension rate for general and special education children, and all for good reason. The research is clear; suspensions lead to dropouts and were number 1 in both categories. Even though a child’s behavior is communicating a need. Our district refuses to provide a school counselor or school psychologist to look into the reason the child is misbehaving. With the above appalling statistics our Administration last week; laid off 28 special education teachers, 55 school counselors, 6 school psychologists and purpose this week too; further reduce more counselors, reduce more special education staff and create a new administrative position to guide and monitor the impact of the cuts.
I am sorry but I need a different answer.
Here is the link to the Sacramento story and a different solution other than the standard slash and burn answers we get every year.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Kevin
eagleproducer on May 16 at 3:58 p.m.
The most appropriate quote from the “founding fathers as far as this story/thread is concerned comes from Ben Franklin:
“If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.”
I believe the previous administration demonstrably proved that maxim.
CougarGold on May 16 at 4:01 p.m.
Hawken -
“If you think you can post on this blog, elitist or uber-left propaganda without push back, you are in my opinion, more than a bit naive.”
Where did I do that, other than what you CLAIM to be elitist? I certainly didn’t post any ‘uber-left propoganda’. In fact, I didn’t post anything in either direction, right or left. Further, you really have NO IDEA of my political leanings and, from what I gather from your responses to me, you’d likely be surprised.
What I don’t see within these forums is any credible effort by most to work on a problem without the constant need to assign blame, generally on one party or the other and specifically against one president or another. The issue here is how to make a school system work under a downward stress on budgets. There has been some thoughtful commentary here regarding the actual topic but generally, as in most of these forums, the thoughtful comments get run over by the ongoing trashing of each other and their political sway. How about some actual constructive dialog for a change?
hawken on May 16 at 4:02 p.m.
nslopeofw
Not too long ago, I posted the “definition” of “Teabagger,” along with the link that led to a visual presentation of the term on Wikipedia. My definition and the accompanying link were promptly deleted as “un-acceptable,” by the on-duty SR Moderator.
Funny, that the definition and accompanying like is “unacceptable,” but, that the prolific use of the term by the uber-left, is not.
Go figure. Anyway, for anyone who is interested, look up “Teabagger” on Wikipedia. Sorry, I’m not allowed to post the link for your convenience.
johnclarke on May 16 at 4:02 p.m.
Sounds very interesting - but please check your link.
You should not be attacked for providing examples backed with facts and data. Thank you.
PlanB on May 16 at 4:02 p.m.
gkambs, I was aware the district lost but infuriated that they ever pursued it. I looked at the information they pointed me to which they claimed supported their position, but it showed the exact opposite. Massive increases in public education funding. And they seemed to purposely be pitting special education against regular ed. The entire thing stunk. I specifically asked Ainsworth what funding model he thought was appropriate, and his response was basically an open checkbook, with no limits, and no review. Fact is, there were other funding streams available to get over the 11% limit but they require the district to justify the need, and they didn’t want to do that.
CougarGold on May 16 at 4:05 p.m.
gkambs - great input and I agree with your opening paragraph on your last post as well. We have a problem. Let’s work together to fix it, political/idealogical differences aside.
misjustice on May 16 at 4:06 p.m.
gkambs, I think you posted the wrong link…
gkambs on May 16 at 4:08 p.m.
Here is the CORRECTED link to the Sacramento story and a different solution other than the standard slash and burn answers we get every year.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/KevinJ
johnclarke on May 16 at 4:13 p.m.
Well no Hawken, because you have never posted a link that is on topic and worth reading. Surely they still teach “facts” and “data” over there at SFCC.
I was refering to gkambs link that provided an example of something that works as opposed to your view, which is everything bad in your little world was caused by a liberal.
misjustice on May 16 at 4:16 p.m.
I thought Addy told him not to post that link anymore? And to stay on topic?
Thanks for the corrected link, gkambs…
misjustice on May 16 at 4:20 p.m.
^ off topic…
Arizonian on May 16 at 4:28 p.m.
Administrators need to take a larger cut in their salaries. 15% or more would seem more reasonable. It’s not quite right that teachers make $30-40k and principals are making more than $110,000. Last year most of them got 5-10% pay increases as well. And now they want to layoff teachers and counselors? I think principals could probably get by on $80k a year in Spokane!
gkambs on May 16 at 4:32 p.m.
Hawken:
I agree:
We can’t foolishly continue to throw billions at our public education system with no positive, measurable results.
We desperately need some accountability.
gkambs on May 16 at 4:38 p.m.
Arizonian:
If our principals only made 80k that’s twice the median income for spokane county.
I think I could manage to live on over $6500 a month and get the summer off. : )
CougarGold on May 16 at 4:38 p.m.
Arizonian - As for the wages you propose for principals, maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong. I would guess that salary studies and collective bargaining determine their pay. As noted in the article, principals are unionized so arbitrary cuts of 15% or more might seem reasonable but unlikely achievable. Add to that point the fact that it would likely cause wage compression ripples throughout the compensation discussion of all employees, including teachers, the outcome likely would involve similar reductions for the teachers. At some point, we lose further on the quality of education provided. So long as the unions have a say in the salary structure, I suspect we won’t be seeing the pay levels you suggest. And if we do see those levels, we may see an exodus from the teachers, at least the better ones.
hawken on May 16 at 4:40 p.m.
gkambs
Thank you. Getting pounded again and again, welcomes courage and conviction that defends “common sense.”
“May your tribe increase.”
gkambs on May 16 at 4:42 p.m.
well put CougarGold:
Unions do a great job of taking care of their members, if we only had someone to take care of and advocate for the kids like that.
CougarGold on May 16 at 4:48 p.m.
gkambs - I agree. What’s needed, as you noted in your prior comments, is a botttom’s up review of our educational system. What are the deliverables/desired results of education? How do we achieve them? What is necessary to support the desired results? How much administrative support is necessary to meet the delivery system requirements? Etcetera…. Simply fighting the unions over pay isn’t solving the real problem, only the current budget year problem. It’s an involved conversation that requires a great deal of input if we are to get what we want from the system. Right now it’s failing us and the kids. The model needs to be fit to the need.
cryssT on May 16 at 5:16 p.m.
Really:
“At least 1150 District 81 employees make over $50.00 an hour. I’m certain that’s not the pay rate of teachers and staff in Malaysia, China, or Timbuktu.”
There’s nothing wrong or illegal about making over $50 an hour when CEO’s make $5 Million to almost $10 Million.
That’s why we used to be called the middle class. With fuel going up 80 cents between March and April, America now is ‘them that has’ and ‘them that had’.
It’ll be interesting to see if the schools lay Assistant Superintendents.
mtharves on May 16 at 6:13 p.m.
I got it, a money raising solution for the schools. Instead of the word fights on this and other threads, a series of cage fights by the usual suspects are set up and tickets sold. Proceeds go to the schools; we could raise millions!
PS. My money’s on Ms Justice; sorry boys.
avocet on May 16 at 8:32 p.m.
“After school programs have proven to be really good for kids. I know you didn’t say eliminate all, but 50% is a lot. The main reason I think these programs are important is because whatever it is, athletics, student council, after hours tutoring, music etc. are all positive reinforcements for kids. When you take these things away, that is when kids tend to fall in with “the wrong crowd”, start doing drugs, acting out in class, skipping school and the like.”
Obviously after-school programs are good for kids. That’s not the point. The issue is who is going to pay for them? It is NOT the schools’ responsibility to keep kids out of trouble after school. “After school” means it’s the parents’ responsibility. Schools canNOT afford to play babysitter anymore.l
avocet on May 16 at 8:40 p.m.
“There’s nothing wrong or illegal about making over $50 an hour when CEO’s make $5 Million to almost $10 Million.”
Oh please. We’re not talking about multi-millionaire CEOs, we’re talking about District 81. Of course it’s not illegal, but it IS wrong for their staffers to be making $50 an hour when the vast majority of the people paying their salaries don’t make anywhere near that.
detroitdude on May 16 at 8:41 p.m.
@ avocet: Most of the things I mentioned there really do not cost schools a lot of money to run. Eliminating these things is like taking a sip from a glass of water. What do these activities really cost? Besides paying the faculty member who organizes it, not very much at all.
I’ll go out on a limb and say that since I have not attended public schools in Spokane my following statement may be incorrect but…
If your kid plays sports, the parents usually have to buy the equipment and arrange transport to practices and such. Student council costs nothing except the kids time and school supplies they probably already have. Tutoring again costs only time and making sure the instructor is paid. I remember people who played in band had to buy their own instruments as well. If I’m totally off base, please set me straight, I’m big enough to admit when I’m wrong, unlike some on here, I like to be enlightened.
All those activities I just mentioned could probably be paid for if the superintendent was making half of what she is. Administration I think is a good place to start with cuts, and not some paltry, laughable 3% nonsense.
DickAdams on May 16 at 8:45 p.m.
I don`t know how many of you know, but at one time the city portion of your real estate tax statement was the number one for the largest portion of the tax. Today, the city is a distant second with schools leading all other pieces of the pie. And by a large amount. Seems to me that kind of budget needs to be trimmed. How the hell did schools pass up the city of Spokane with the reckless spending habits they are addicted too? But what do you do with guys like Rocky Treppiedi sitting on the board and even in todays newspaper wants to higher another administrator. Its no wonder they are wallowing in red ink.
TheRain on May 16 at 9:02 p.m.
“Sorry to be redundant but once again, we have the highest drop out rate in the state”
Districts with a lower extended graduation rate than Spokane: Mount Adams, Monroe, Concrete, Brewster, Wapato, Grandview, Tacoma, Oakesdale, Orcas Island, Sunnyside, Vancouver, Stevenson, Grand Coulee, Onalaska, Oakville, Hoquiam, Moses Lake, Lake Quinalt, Mabton, Wenatchee, and Inchelium.
http://www.k12.wa.us/dataadmin/
You really don’t want to see the list for annual dropout rate, because Spokane looks even better there.
gkambs on May 16 at 9:55 p.m.
TheRain;
Glad to see the 2009-2010 numbers are out. In my above posts I used the OSPI 2008-09 numbers, to be fair I only used the largest 15 districts out of the 285 districts in the state. The first number is the amount of students served in grades 7-12 the second number is the on time graduation rates. And yes I do want to see the 2009-2010 dropout rates and compare the largest schools, but not with the small schools. : )
Spokane 13,356 62.1%
Bethel 8,425 63.8%
Vancouver 10,075 66.6%
Seattle 19,100 70.1%
Puyallup 10,297 70.6%
Tacoma 12,516 70.8%
Highline 7,998 72.1%
Federal Way 10,480 75.6%
Evergreen - Clark 11,453 75.8%
Kent 12,823 76.7%
Edmonds 9,927 77.1%
Everett 8,132 83.7%
Bellevue 8,258 87.8%
Northshore 9,598 88.2%
Lake Washington 10,327 92.6%
TheRain in your 2009-2010 example you used mostly small schools which I did not see as good comparables to large schools.
Concrete 316 students (served)
Brewster 417 students
Mount Adams 417 students
Monroe 2,824 students
Wapato 1,452 students
Grandview 1,516 students
Oaksdale 58 students
Orcas Island 236 students
etc. etc.
eagleproducer on May 17 at 8:04 a.m.
So many “experts” on here who haven’t set foot in a classroom in decades.
ZagChuck on May 17 at 9:13 a.m.
@ Turkey Tracks
Too many already in the classroom who think just being there makes them the expert.
Fact is school budget is bloated, and needs to be trimmed. Rather than addressing that problem, “educators” want to continue to increase the burden on taxpayers.
We can no longer afford their bloated salaries and benefits package. Since they have refused to make trim their own budgets, others must do it for them. The complaints from those involved, including yourself, are seen by many as self-serving and ignorant of the current economic situation.
Also, I note you have no problem speaking out about law enforcement policy, or military policy among other issues. Does that mean you’ve served in those capacities? Or is your “rule” of the need to serve before being able to speak just hypocritically applied to the classroom?
nslopeofw on May 17 at 9:18 a.m.
Yet, Eagle, when i replied to your claim, you neglected to reply. Why, in my kids’ district (Mead) are there so many “volunteers” to assist you teachers to do your jobs? Why are not you teachers out assisting others to do their jobs for free? Is this a one way street? Get real, I’ve seen the inside of your classes, and it isnt all that different (other than WAY easier for the kids) than when i was in school in the 60’s/70’s.
gkambs on May 17 at 9:21 a.m.
eagleproducer:
Not sure who your addressing but I have 4 kids in school from grade school to high school, my wife & I both spend a significant amount of time at our schools and supporting our teachers. We witness with our own eyes what actually takes place there. We have always heard the same complaint from everyone at every level of the schools, “No Money”. So after 10 years of hearing the same thing last year I started to do the research. What I have found is our hard working teachers were right, and our administration has been less than candor.
eagleproducer on May 18 at 9:54 a.m.
“less than candor?”
Whatever that means….
Here is my solution: Forced, mandatory retirement at twenty five years of “service” for teachers with the option of buyouts for those with at least twenty years of service. For every teacher eliminated at the top of the salary schedule two can be hired to fill their shoes. Top tenured teachers who oppose such actions do so at the expense of the future of their profession. We always hear how much more money you’d make in the private sector but you stick around sacrificing that wealth “for the kids.” Go out and prove it, we could use the extra tax revenue.
But you won’t do this. You’ll obfuscate and claim your experience automatically makes you better (despite comparably insufficient training) than newer teachers and that they system would collapse without your “expertise.” Yet it is your cadre of “professionals” who have sat idly while public opinion of your profession was eroded to the point where it sits today.
eagleproducer on May 18 at 9:55 a.m.
gkambs: When you undestand the difference between “your” and you’re, get back to me.
CougarGold on May 18 at 12:44 p.m.
Eagle -
“Here is my solution: Forced, mandatory retirement at twenty five years of “service” for teachers with the option of buyouts for those with at least twenty years of service. For every teacher eliminated at the top of the salary schedule two can be hired to fill their shoes. Top tenured teachers who oppose such actions do so at the expense of the future of their profession.”
Interesting idea. However, I would assume that there would be an expectation of full pension either available upon retirement or at least full vestment with pension available upon normal retirement age. As most teachers probably enter the profession at about 23 years old, they would be forced to retire by the age of 48. I don’t know how old you are but 48 is NOT old and isn’t near the current norm of 65 or more.
The number of retirees benefiting from State pensions as compared to teachers still working would increase proportionately over time, thereby further stressing a State pension fund that is already over obliged. How do we pay for that?
I believe that many older teachers are still excellent teachers while many younger teachers are weak. It’s not a simple game of age semantics, it’s accountable results. Like all people in all professions, some are very good, some are very bad, and most fall somewhere within the range. Besides, the ‘RIF them when they’re old’ would undoubtedly be rightfully challenged as age discrimination and wouldn’t stand in court so is likely a non-starter.
The answer to education has to start with a question: What do we want for our kids? From that ‘deliverable’, the means to meet it must form. With all the interference from a variety of sources, the question is nearly impossible to answer other than by taking the easy way out and stating ‘everything’. We need to do better.
gkambs on May 22 at 11:24 p.m.
Sorry eagleproducer I thought this thread was dead.
candor
noun - the quality of being open and honest;
I have never claimed to be an expert at anything, especially grammar. I apologize if my lack thereof has offended you. I only finished the 10th grade in district 81 which means I may only have the equivalency of a 7th grade education. My son who graduated from district 81 last year is a freshman in college and can’t read or write in cursive, which means he can’t read the original declaration of independence but, I can and my favorite part is:
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
District 81 is the largest government agency in the city of Spokane, their primary mission should be to teach our kids to read, write and perform arithmetic. From the numbers I am looking at they have failed to perform that primary service. My son is now in college but can’t read the original founding documents that created this country and he has to now PAY to take remedial math he should of been taught in high school.
Instead of telling us how they are going to provide our children a BASIC education Our superintendent basically tells us she can’t do her job with the 310 million we gave her last year, her objective in this article is to pre-warn us our kids will be learning even less: “we can no longer do everything for our kids”. UNBELIEVABLE. I believe it time, it is our “duty to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for the future security” of our children and our State.