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November 15, 2011 in News, City
Thompson juror: ‘This was a police coverup’
The forewoman of the jury that convicted Spokane Police Officer Karl F. Thompson Jr. said none of the jurors brought information to deliberations that they picked up from media reports, as alleged by defense attorneys seeking a new trial.
Diane Riley, 57, of Ellensburg, contacted The Spokesman-Review Monday to voice her concerns about allegations that jurors may have been exposed to television reports indicating Otto Zehm was mentally ill.
U.S. District Court Judge Fred Van Sickle had barred from the trial any mention of Zehm’s mental illness.
Thompson’s defense attorney, Carl Oreskovich, alleged after his client was convicted that some jurors were exposed to television coverage about the beating death of a mentally ill man while they were staying a hotel during the trial in Yakima.
But Riley said no juror mentioned anything about gleaning information from media accounts and that the jury decided the case based only on the information presented at trial. She said one of the jurors sent a note to the judge during the trial asking for more information about Zehm, but it had nothing to do with outside media reports.
“I was presiding over this group of people. I could tell that none of them were being fed information from the outside,” she said.
Van Sickle is expected to rule soon on a request by Oreskovich to query jurors about what they may have seen on the televisions at the Oxford Suites hotel in Yakima. That hotel housed the three-attorney defense team, Judge Van Sickle and five of the 12 jurors who convicted Thompson on Nov. 2 of using excessive force and lying to investigators.
Oreskovich also included in a court filings an email from an alternate juror — who wasn’t part of the unanimous decision to convict Thompson — indicating that the alternate did not agree with the verdict.
“I was shocked to hear the news,” the unnamed juror wrote in the redacted email, according Oreskovich’s filing. “I do not have the same opinion of my fellow jurors. I am sorry.”
Oreskovich did not respond to an email request for an interview. Assistant U.S. Attorney Timothy Durkin said he could not comment about any aspect of the case.
As for Riley, she said it was Oreskovich’s allegations of juror misconduct that prompted her to contact the newspaper.
“I was rather disturbed about a recent article I read in which I learned the Thompson defense is asking for a new trial because jurors ‘may have seen’ news about the trial while staying at a hotel in Yakima — and specifically as it was related to Zehm’s mental condition,” Riley wrote in an email Monday.
“I do not believe for a moment the jury was influenced by anything outside the courtroom; the conclusions and ultimately the verdict were based fairly and honestly on what was seen and heard in the courtroom,” she continued. “It would be such a shame if politics were to sabotage the hard work the jurors and the court did to avail justice.”
In a telephone interview Tuesday, Riley said the jury had several unanswered questions about Zehm. They did not know that Van Sickle had previously barred information that Zehm was innocent, mentally ill and not using drugs on the night of the incident.
“What we were searching for was why wouldn’t someone give in finally? We had suspected that there was something different about Otto just for that reason,” Riley said. “We had plenty on Mr. Thompson, but nothing on (Zehm). It was hard. That’s what took us so long. We went over and over and over things and asked pertinent questions. I said, ‘Keep the emotion out of it.’ When you don’t have enough facts, it’s hard.”
After convicting Thompson of using excessive force and obstruction of justice, Riley said she couldn’t sleep “the whole night.”
“We convicted this police officer of something that will be forever with him. You still walk away and say, ‘These are the facts. This is what he failed to do in the scope of his job.’ Yet, he’s still a human being and you don’t want to make a mistake. There is always that little spark of doubt about whether we did the right thing. That’s why you have more than one juror.”
The next morning, Riley got on her computer and read previous coverage of Thompson’s interaction with Zehm.
“First, I learned about his mental condition, and two, he didn’t have any drugs in his system,” she said. “I was like, wow, we did make the right decision. I slept like a baby the next night.”
The case turned, according to Riley, when federal prosecutors called Spokane Police Officer Tim Moses to the stand. Federal prosecutors provided Moses a letter of immunity so he couldn’t invoke his 5th Amendment protections against self-incrimination. Moses previously testified to a grand jury that Thompson told him he hit Zehm in the head with a baton, which would have constituted unjustified lethal force.
“We were all on the fence until Tim Moses took the stand. That man gave everything away,” Riley said of his hostile demeanor toward prosecutors. “You could tell by his attitude and how he presented himself. You don’t get that way unless you are guilty of something or hiding something. It was just a gut instinct that this man was covering something up. His attitude in general turned us off.
“And when (Officer Sandy) McIntyre took the stand and followed suit, I remember somebody saying that the feds really must have done a number on her to make her cry like that,” Riley continued. “I said, ‘That’s a possibility. But I don’t know about you guys, but if I’m in trouble I cry.’”
Despite the troubling testimony, Riley said she waited until the case was complete before she made up her mind.
“I didn’t decide until the very end, purposefully, just like the judge asked,” Riley said. “I have three daughters and 13 grandkids. I learned that you have to hear all sides of the story to be fair.”
The jury listened to testimony for three-and-a-half weeks. On the first afternoon of deliberations the jurors all “vented.”
“We went around the room and kind of expelled our emotions and pent-up comments,” she said. “For three-and-a-half weeks, we couldn’t speak” about the case.
On Nov. 1, the jury decided relatively quickly that Thompson had used unreasonable force when he confronted Zehm on March 18, 2006, in the Zip Trip at 1712 N. Division St. But four jurors “remained on the fence” about the obstruction charge.
“There were about four jurors who felt (Thompson) was the fall guy for the department,” Riley said. “Everybody felt 100 percent this was a police cover-up. But the four felt that Thompson was the victim of the department cover-up. That’s why they couldn’t say at first that he intentionally, willfully obstructed justice.”
But after lunch on Nov. 1, the jury asked to listen to the taped interview Thompson gave on March 22, 2006, describing how he struck Zehm with a baton to pre-empt an expected assault.
The four jurors “couldn’t get past the department cover-up. I said, ‘Let’s pretend there was no department cover-up. Let’s just look at the statement,’” she said.
Regardless of whether the word was “lunged,” which police officials used for months to describe Zehm’s movements, or whether Zehm “came at” Thompson, “it doesn’t matter the word,” Riley said. “Did Otto Zehm do something that could be construed as aggressive? It was a resounding no.”
The experience will forever remain with the corporate manager-turned-trucker.
“It was a terrible, emotional experience,” Riley said of her first time sitting on a jury. “But it was wonderful in the sense that this was a federal trial and I got to see the machinations about how it works.”
During the trial, Riley said she had no sense how important the case was to Spokane.
“Most of us had never heard of this case,” she said. “We didn’t know the particulars. But one of the jurors had an acquaintance who lived in Spokane. (The juror) made comments in deliberations. She said politics in Spokane are corrupt and dirty. That was the only person who had a sense of what was going on.”
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reservedparking on November 15 at 4:02 p.m.
Fasten your seatbelts…
detroitdude on November 15 at 4:02 p.m.
And I say this sarcastically: Wow! What a surprise there!
Slightlyworried on November 15 at 4:10 p.m.
“We were all on the fence until Tim Moses took the stand. That man gave everything away,” Riley said of his hostile demeanor toward prosecutors.”
Thank you Tim Moses for convicting your friend.
“She said politics in Spokane are corrupt and dirty.”
No kidding.
After reading the newspaper, “I was like, wow, we did make the right decision. I slept like a baby the next night.”
Yes you did.
Lewis on November 15 at 4:27 p.m.
tim moses hung thompson yes, that is music to my ears.
brianrbreen on November 15 at 4:53 p.m.
@Shelala
All the playing aside, all the rhetoric aside, and what has now become obvious to almost everyone is how bad it has been. As far as the SPD is concerned the rank and file has an opportunity here to step up. Something of course in my irrelevant, cowardly career, I never did. But if as a Guild Officer I was such an impediment to the department as a whole, like the leaders are now and if I was so cowardly as Moses was and is, if every picture of Thompson included me, No matter what I believed I think I might in the interest of the membership have had the character to step down.
So if they get rid of their embarrassing leaders, and take it where it belongs and get some real cops in a position of trust and they do their job, then what.
@ Ed
As you know I’ve tried, and hard. Let’s see what happens, and where the real cops are, and if they will step up.
zelda on November 15 at 5:03 p.m.
On a scale of one to 10 with Penn State and the Catholic Church being a 10, where does Spokane fall on continuum of corruption?
I don’t know if the city has a motto on its great seal, but right now it seems to be, “Every man has his price.”
brianrbreen on November 15 at 5:04 p.m.
@Shelala
After reading this piece, let me add to the list below, it was the jury’s fault.
Character or lack there of is interesting isn’t it. I believe taking responsibility for ones actions is a sign of character. Don’t see much acceptance of responsibility here. The blame game runs the gambit.
1) The media is responsible.
2) The stupid citizens are responsible
3) The DOJ is responsible
4) The FBI is responsible
5) The Guild is responsible
6) The Chief is responsible
7) The Mayor is responsible
8) Dirty campaigning is responsible
9) Letters to the editor are responsible
10) Bloggers are responsible
11) Tucker is responsible
Gotta keep the targets moving.
jeffleelambert on November 15 at 5:04 p.m.
Thanks to Diane Riley for her service along with the rest of the jurors.
Jethro_toll on November 15 at 5:07 p.m.
A great dimension to the trial. Twelve ordinary citizens from just listening to the trial and testimony knew that this was a police coverup.
I am glad that they took their duty seriously and came to the most logical conclusion. Its just too bad that the Famous Fifty couldn’t see past their own corruption and lack of integrity to accept the verdict from the same system they swore to preserve and protect.
The guild should be ashamed of itself to have officers of so little integrity and should terminated their representation when they break the rules.
generallyspeaking on November 15 at 5:14 p.m.
As if Clouse is a believable reporter…I would not trust ANYTHING this clown says…..Spokesman should be ashamed to employ this bafoon…..Oh what am I saying…It’s the rag tag Spokesman Review….
misjustice on November 15 at 5:15 p.m.
Hummmm. She made up her mind when he testified? Didn’t wait to hear any more evidence & said that set her winds in motion to convict??
PLUS….someone on the jury has a friend in Spokane & apparently heard the police were corrupt? Sounds like a mistrial/do over to me.
Thank you juror for giving the defense more fodder for their appeal!!!!
lowtechmaster on November 15 at 5:18 p.m.
Why were defense attorneys housed in the same place as the jury?? Were the prosecution attorneys also housed there?? If not, why not??
norpass on November 15 at 5:23 p.m.
Otto Zehm’s murder, police cover up, viciously corrupt politics @ Spokane City Hall, weaselly police chief, arrogantly “royal” mojo Mayor Mary, and it all boils down to one sad and sorry failure.
Thompson was convicted by a jury of his peers and justice worked. This time. That it took so long merely highlights that sad and sorry failure motif all over again.
Spokane’s brammy new mojo Mayor Davey ‘boy’ Condom has his work cut out for him. Real substantive change @ City Hall? Yeah, sure sure.
brianrbreen on November 15 at 5:28 p.m.
BTW: In a corruption case, you have a pretty good idea who is going to lie and who is not, and you know where you will have to go and how you will handle it even if it means a grant. Like I said previously great choice DOJ, and if the DOJ had chosen to do more they could have, at the risk of the story getting together to protect Thompson.
Despite what people might think including, Don Brockett, as I said before, that was a good call and it shows, anything beyond the trial is up to the city. Whether they have the guts to do it or not is up to them.
That’s your VP, so deal with it.
EthicsinLE on November 15 at 5:28 p.m.
I think Mr. Thompson did the prudent thing in resigning. Now that the trial is over, I’d like to see people move on and stop festering on the same issues. Give the federal investigation, new mayor and new police chief time to work their course. It really does no good to beat a dead horse every day, other than promote more division, misinformation and mistrust. If you want change, engage yourself in the city government, don’t just sit at your desk and blog. SPD has lots of great officers who serve our community well.
lowtechmaster on November 15 at 5:30 p.m.
Thank you, Diane, and the rest of the jurors, for doing your job meticulously and impartially. I have been on four juries—county, state, and federal. And every time all of the jury members listened to all the testimony, considered all of the evidence on both sides, discussed the case in detail (on two occasions for days), and arrived at unanimous decisions. In three cases, the verdict was guilty; in the forth, it was not guilty.
I would be willing, if I ever had to do so, to trust a jury to deliver an impartial and fair verdict.
generallyspeaking on November 15 at 5:34 p.m.
Totally agree with you justmeagain…a juror knew someone in spokane and spoke about how corrupt the police department is supposedly….THAT alone screams mistrial….
Jethro_toll on November 15 at 5:48 p.m.
Justme and clones.
Heresay and not a fact in evidence. Sort of a self prophecy there. A corrupt PD begats a corrupt officer.
I would have to say that the facts in evidence as presented in a fair trial confirms that heresay statement.
Your grasping at straws and let us know when you pass the bar exam.
ericdx on November 15 at 5:50 p.m.
They did not say the Police were corrupt, they said that POLITICS were corupt. Look at the last paragraph again, Justme09 and JustMeAgain. Learn how to read, and read what is written, not what you want to see.
As far as making up her mind, she has that right, but could still have had her choise influenced. You two are just reaching to try and get our boy Klubber Karl off of the bust. He is dirty, SPD is dirty, and the trials are just beginning.
MrBoosDad on November 15 at 6:01 p.m.
People always want this nasty stuff to go away. This is why we don’t talk enough about the other coverups…we are part of it when we grow so weary so fast of both free speech and justice. Otto didn’t get justice, he got killed for nothing lest we allow ourselves to get too caught up in various wristbands movements. Until change really comes, nobody should forget.
PlanB on November 15 at 6:07 p.m.
This very much clears up a big question I had: Why call Moses to the stand other than to show what a lying sack of manure sociopath that he is? Well it worked, and the city is a bit safer because of it.
misjustice on November 15 at 6:15 p.m.
Gramma, Riley stated that she waited until all of the case was tried before making up her mind; Moses and McIntyre tipped the case, not in Klubber’s favor but against him but Riley didn’t make her final decision until the jury was in deliberations…
If you want to be mad at someone, take your anger out on the beat red blushing Moses, McIntyre and Klubber; not Riley.
Had the verdict gone the other way you, no dobut, would be crowing about how the jury got it “right”…
Don’t you have a wristband to buy?
Riley’s story demonstrates how the jury was cautious and careful with the duty they were charged with. And I commend them for their caution/care.
Lewis on November 15 at 6:26 p.m.
missJ hit it on the head if Karl had walked all you Klubber supporters would be telling us the court is right respect the court but since he was found guilty your all telling us the court was wrong this it was a mistrial.
Just once in your pathetic life admit you are wrong your buddy helped kill a innocent man, now live with it or not no one here cares.
and for gosh sakes stop with the donuts before you all look like Moses.
monkeyman on November 15 at 6:39 p.m.
This is somewhat old, probably from 2009 - http://www.kxly.com/news/21368807/detail.html
“Public To Pay For Legal Fees In Officer’s Trial
Professionals familiar with the case estimate that attorney fees, expert witnesses and defense investigations would put the cost of Thompson’s defense at roughly $200,000.”
…since the taxpayers are paying for it, I was wondering if there was a way to find out exactly how much are we being robbed of?
nslopeofw on November 15 at 6:42 p.m.
Lewis and MissJ-
If you recall, they were all saying justice prevailed on the lawsuit that the cop won a few weeks ago, and it was also right (they claim) that Klubber got bail. So you are both right, its only when they lose that the system doesnt work. That should prove they are cops, cause no citizen in their right minds would admit to such hypocrisy.
misjustice on November 15 at 6:44 p.m.
AND, monkeyman, we also are on the hook for Klubber’s wages during the years he was on the farce while awaiting trial…I want a claw back on those wages since he is a CONVICTED FELON!
MrBoosDad on November 15 at 6:44 p.m.
If they had done an honest job of the internal investigation all that money could go to Youth programs, potholes and hiring a few more outside the area officers…and we’re not done paying yet. The 200K is a down payment….we should make the union pay for their “guy.”
misjustice on November 15 at 6:45 p.m.
Yup, NorthSlope, good points…also agree with your post on the other thread.
; )
lvgpaul on November 15 at 6:52 p.m.
Where are all of the 505’s now?
misjustice on November 15 at 7:04 p.m.
Funny if Thompson had been found not guilty, as he should have been, then you all would have said the jury was rigged. Police were shocked he was found guilty & prepared for the police haters to riot.
Shows lots of immaturity on the part of the public.
MrBoosDad on November 15 at 7:13 p.m.
Really? A riot? Wouldn’t that have pleased the quivering clubs of the lawless?
misjustice on November 15 at 7:19 p.m.
Well the Kowards were training expecting the citizens to riot if Klubber was found not guilty; bet they were really disappointed that they couldn’t deploy their tiny Tonka Toy Tank and riot gear, all dressed up like GI Joes, to beat us down!
I remember when Gay Olsen “won” his case and how the Kowards fist pumped in the courtroom and folks like GrammaAgain crowed about how the jury got it right…and that the rest of us just needed to suck it up.
So Gramms, suck it up! Klubber is a CONVICTED FELON!
misjustice on November 15 at 7:23 p.m.
The Koward cuts and runs, by quitting, to avoid his Loudermill interview.
Just like he filed for a deevorce to shield his property assets from a civil penalty. AND his”ex” wife (which he still lives with in “her” 675K house) got 1/2 of his retirement; effectively shielding 1/2 of that money from the civil penalty.
Is there nothing this Koward won’t do?
brianrbreen on November 15 at 7:35 p.m.
@Ryanpitts
You might mention to your staff that Fredrick Harlan Coe, was the South Hill Rapist, and his father was an editor for the paper, and the list of names in my post were all either convicted individuals or there was a long history of court cases involving them.
I don’t mind getting the boot. But that was a little too much.
misjustice on November 15 at 7:41 p.m.
You got the boot, Brian?
I wonder who “flagged” ya????
brianrbreen on November 15 at 7:43 p.m.
@misjustice
Just a list of IA cases I did with names that I took a lot of heat for. No big deal let her go back and check it out then maybe I’ll be able to post it.
DickAdams on November 15 at 7:45 p.m.
MisJ, most of the time you`re on target. This time, as you have done in the past, hit a bulls eye right in its center. However, there needs to be much more fixing in the justice system. Obviously, when clubber was declared too poor to pay his attorney, and the courts stuck the taxpayers with his attorney bill, a 10 year child would have easily figure out clubber and his wife, as his accomplice, merely moved all of their assets around and then cried poor mouth, just like other scum bags have done that could afford to pay an attorney themselves. That is criminal in and of itself. When clubber sets up housekeeping in his new residence, I hope he is forced to mingle with the prison inmate population and is forced outside to play football with all his new found friends.
MrBoosDad on November 15 at 7:45 p.m.
Funny, they expected a riot and were disappointed by a resonable public. We expected a 50 cop show of force for a fellon and were equally disappointed that they showed. Everybody gets their share of disappointment.
Ron_the_Cop on November 15 at 7:59 p.m.
Brian,
My hat’s off to AUSA Durkin et al re calling Ofc. Moses to testify for just the reason you suggested. I watched Ofc. Moses testimony the second day. IMO he was contemptuous, insolent, argumentative and much more under direct from AUSA Boutros. On cross by CO Ofc. Moses was very forthcoming and not like he was having his teeth pulled.
Ofc. Moses was very disingenuous and at the time I commented in these threads I didn’t think this was lost on the jury either. What was Ofc. Moses thinking? Who do you suppose was going back to DC to give his superiors a report on this case and SPD - Boutros!
I see Riley confirmed what I thought - Ofc. Moses was lying through his teeth. Ofc. Moses testimony sunk Ofc. Thompson.
Shelala on November 15 at 8:06 p.m.
@Brian.
You asked then what? Let me tell you…I will hopefully see future encounters between the SPD and those that break the law be handled with sound judgement and professionalism and not heartbreak, defensiveness, brutality and the contempt. I will be happy to see those “good” officers who have taken the brunt of the public’s wrath on law enforcement during this time by continuing to try and do their job without “salutes”, public name calling and have respected the actions and conclusions of our judicial system, be able to rise to the top. Not because they laid low, but because they have the ability to respect what they represent. I will be happy to see someone in the SPD uniform without wondering about their qualifications and abilities or lack thereof, because I will hopefully know they have been properly trained and have their own head on straight. I will be happy when I know if I need assistance, they will respond, be courteous to me and provide the right amount of assistance necessary to take control and no more. That’s what I hope for. Will i personally regain trust? Don’t know. I am sad for Otto and each and every person affected by less than acceptable behavior, even if I personally don’t know any of them.I am sad because SPD and their leaders don’t seem to fully grasp the rippling consequences of a police department that the public has lost trust in whether it is the call not made for help or assistance or an actual encounter that creates a lifelong hatred.My personal opinion that the time it takes to heal is proportional to the length of time it took to destroy. Neither is /was overnight, but then again, what do I know.? i am one of those “liberal pukes Brian 1212 refers to in his above post in support of Karl Thompson.
GDodd on November 15 at 8:07 p.m.
@Ron and that’s a bad thing?
ChiefsFan21 on November 15 at 8:37 p.m.
It’s funny how fast a jury of our peers took to see Karl and his gang for who they really are.Cover-up?That quick.3 weeks of testimony, defense, truths hidden by a defense team judge, and STILL “BAM” these 12 people see the same exact thing the rest of Spokane does.A HUUUUUUUUUGE tyhanks to all of the jurors for doing what’s right but an even bigger one for Ofc Moses and sandy mcyntire..Afterall,Without you 2 none of this could’ve been possible! Now, Who’s up next? I know they’re not done yet.
brianrbreen on November 15 at 8:57 p.m.
Gee I wish I wasn’t being blocked. I don’t care if I’m tracked, but bloked?
brianrbreen on November 15 at 9:15 p.m.
Server is in Liberty Lake. The company is trying to figure out how I do it. No wonder they haven’t got some of the big contracts they tried for.
Slightlyworried on November 15 at 9:51 p.m.
I wonder what Steve Tucker is thinking tonight? A retired truck driver from Ellensburg gets it and he doesn’t.
selkirk on November 15 at 10:09 p.m.
Go Brian Go!
Was so disappointed when they took out the “/tools/” work around so you could view their entire story when they blocked it for subscribers only.
Took me a while, but the new work around is so simple. It’s a shame that there are those willing to pay for their e-scription when it’s free to those who know a little about how the internet works.
Lewis on November 16 at 4:35 a.m.
brian just come in with a different personal account page. i used to use peoplepc now i use acn both must have changing isp addresses the few times i was blocked was able to come on under the wire.
to read for free just use the name and address of a friend that gets the news paper see how easy that was?
samvimes on November 16 at 7:06 a.m.
Brian, you’re probably being punished for offending the sensibilities of the SR powers-that-be by pointing out that quite a number of criminal cases in the past have been connected to the high and mighty in Spokane. The owners of a blog usually don’t mind controversy as long as it doesn’t point the finger at them.
At least (so far) I haven’t seen anyone on this blog bounced for pointing out editorial/proofreading errors as has happened on the KXLY blog. Certain reporters over there have very thin skins ;-)
brianrbreen on November 16 at 7:39 a.m.
@EthicsinLE
There needs to be a “festering” until such time as members of the SPD quit blaming the media, learn to deal with a very small segment of anti-police citizens, accept the verdict, and first and foremost admit that there are huge problems within.
I will be the first to say that the hiring of Kirkpatrick killed any chances of real reform. But you have to learn that ultimately it isn’t up to the feds with a P&P, it isn’t up to a new Mayor, and it isn’t up to a new Chief. It’s up to the guys and gals on the job and no one else. In order to gain respect there needs to be a culture change from within.
As you have posted before, many people haven’t read all the reports or the filings. I have, and I can tell you that the SPD is lucky it wasn’t any uglier than it was. I’m sure you are moxie enough to know that when you compare the GJ testimony of Boothe, Lesser, and Uberuaga to the defense testimony at trial of Preuninger, anyone even non-LE folks can see how bad things really are, and then to have the “salute”, or the guild VP who by anyone’s standards was a complete embarrassment to the department during the trial send a stupid email like he did only adds to the “festering”.
This isn’t a “dead horse”, and it won’t be for some time to come. Time to accept that. It looks like another shoe is going to fall pretty soon and the folks at the SPD will have to deal with it. So deal it, but with some class.
The SPD has some great officers, no question, but there are also some great people that blog here. As for me, I’m afraid you will have to put up with me for awhile, foot surgery. But just so you know I am trying to engage in city government as best I can and that engagement is in the interest of trying to help make things better at the SPD, you might not agree with my methods, or my views, but it is what it is, so I’m afraid you are going to have to accept it.
@Lewis
Thanks, but I’m not afraid to use my real name. I got it fixed as you can see.
brianrbreen on November 16 at 7:55 a.m.
@samvimes
Nah, that’s not my deal! My deal is trying to get to the point that I don’t have to cringe every time someone asks me where I worked for so long, and I don’t care who’s toes I step on.
They fixed it, and it does have to do with the advertising bot fix they used, the server occasional thinks I’m a bot.
brianrbreen on November 16 at 9:11 a.m.
@Justme09
Take another shot, see if you can get it in this time. I’m a big boy, I can take it.
samvimes on November 16 at 9:34 a.m.
@brainbreen
You’ll have to pardon my ignorance but I’m fairly new here so I don’t know where you worked, I’m assuming LE. Don’t really care, you seem to make sense.
So they fixed the problem, but I still don’t find whatever it was you posted. Is it going to show up here? Server in Liberty Lake? I’m pretty sure I know the hosting company and am not surprised.
Shelala on November 16 at 9:46 a.m.
♦@Brian
I don’t think the solution is as easy as drumming the bad eggs from SPD including their leaders and allowing the so-called “good guys” to come forward. I think we must dig deeper and answer the questions on how this developed in the first place. It should be obvious to everyone the system failed especially if has repeated itself before. Do a quick search on the internet of “police brutality”, and you will soon realize the Spokane is not the only city currently having to address the issues. (you will also get some whackos, but hey, that’s the web).Some cities such as Berkley, Phoenix, Seattle and a few others, have activists that have formed Copwatch groups who show up with cameras at every police incident to document their actions. While I don’t advocate this type of activism,.Ideally, it shouldn’t be necessary in a city with responsive leadership. The proposed P&P by the feds is not a be all, end all solution.
brianrbreen on November 16 at 9:47 a.m.
@samvimes
SPD retired, 26 years.
It’s no big deal. The bot fix grabs me every once in a while. They correct it, and much to the dismay of some I get shot in.
As far as the hosting company is concerned, neither am I. :)
Shelala on November 16 at 10:15 a.m.
@Brian,
BTW if anyone believes the Police Guild has always been the epitome of deep police oriented discussions and thought provoking debate, think again. Their building at one time had a full staffed bar and social area in which a lot of cops dropped by, both on and off duty, to drink, carouse and sometimes gamble their whole paychecks away in dice games on the back steps while boasting about the latest puke they thumped. Lotta years ago, but true.
brianrbreen on November 16 at 10:35 a.m.
@Shelala
I have my own theories, but, they are from the perspective of an old cop. I was for the most part PS (Pre SWAT). So we had to kick doors the old fashioned way. Looking back though we were pretty stupid sometimes, and I want these kids to be as safe as possible while at the same time understanding that even though there are risks involved sometimes you just have to take them. If that means slowing things down, not jumping right away, and having to take some disrespect you just do it, and figure it is just part of the job.
I don’t think people have a good understanding of the P &P. It isn’t an investigation into a particular set of facts. It is overall assessment of patterns and practices within the department with the power to force changes procedurally. If it becomes reality it won’t affect the grunts that much and the guild should have by now contacted the Seattle union to gain an understanding of what goes on. It will affect the leadership, which is darn good. Because many of the gripes the cops have are legit.
The be all end all, really boils down to a culture change inside the department and that will only really come about when the troops decide it is going to happen.
I don’t advocate the type of activism you describe either, the activism has to be at a far more sophisticated level with the sole intent to make things better, other wise it just creates a wider divide.
I will say this however regarding activism. Actual “corruption” on the Seattle Police Department wasn’t dealt with until the media got on it, and business leaders in Seattle got together and funded an investigator named Reg Bruce to look into it over a period of several years, he did a bang up job, things were eventually cleaned up pretty good as far as pay offs were concerned. When we were trying to keep Colacurico influence out of Spokane, I wouldn’t talk to the Seattle PD Intelligence guys about anything sensitive because they were in deep, but I would to Reg because I knew it wouldn’t get to the wrong places. I’m not saying anything like that is needed here just as long as the media keeps on top of things.
What Spokane doesn’t realize is that yes there are problems on the SPD, but they really pale in comparison to other places like Seattle, NYC, and Philly., believe me I know.
brianrbreen on November 16 at 10:43 a.m.
@Shelala
I have to admit I spent more time there then I should have, and did a lot of things I shouldn’t have. But never boasted about thumping any punks. I got thumped there once by another cop, that’s all the thumping I remember.
Lewis on November 16 at 10:44 a.m.
Brian I never said you were afraid to show your real name i prefer to show mine to but sometimes you gotta do what a ya gotta do.
A lot of the mentality is not helped by the fact tucker refuses to discipline the children, if he did they might toe the line bit a closer but since they can do what ever they want like children they will act out accordingly.
brianrbreen on November 16 at 10:51 a.m.
@Lewis
I wasn’t referring to you, regarding the real name thing. It was meant for some other folks.
Shelala on November 16 at 12:15 p.m.
@Brian
I have to admit I have been blessed/cursed with an impeccable memory. On a side note, I admit I roll my eyes when I see a cop decked out in so much gear he looks like an old fashioned one man band, when he doesn’t realize that his best defense is his words and demeanor.
brianrbreen on November 16 at 1:13 p.m.
@Shelala
I agree, but I guess that’s the new look. Right or wrong, I don’t know, but I’d sure hate to be in foot chase with all that stuff. I hope all the concealed back-up weapons some are carrying now are light weight.
One of my pet peeves is the plain clothes people and Detectives walking around without their weapon and badge uncovered, it just doesn’t look right to me. But I see that’s the way they do it on TV so I guess it’s okay.
I remember back in the early 80s the vice and drug cops started concealing their weapon un-holstered behind there back in the belt with the barrel down their crack. I never could figure that out. I mean, I figured if I wanted to get to my weapon and was going to use it I was going to shoot someone, and stinking them to death was over kill. Besides who would want to clean it.
brianrbreen on November 16 at 1:20 p.m.
@Shelala
Make that covered instead of uncovered.
Shelala on November 16 at 2:18 p.m.
@Brian
I think they did that because a lot of prostitutes, pimps and dopers liked to casually brush up against them to see if there was a holstered gun at their side. No one checked out their butt crack.:). I find it ironic that even with all their arsenal of supposedly non-lethal options, they still manage to directly or indirectly, cause death. Isn’t that the purpose of issuing these non-lethal tools as the name implies?
brianrbreen on November 16 at 5:57 p.m.
@Shelala
The only truly non-lethal weapon an officer has in the arsenal is his/her brain and mouth.
ravalite on November 16 at 7:38 p.m.
I moved to Spokane from Seattle about 10 years ago. Almost immediately I received a welcoming ticket from the Spokane Police Department. Under the former extremely corrupt and uneducated police chief Terry something or other the PD’s mantra was “collect don’t protect”, with half the Department working traffic and pedestrian enforcement. It was ridiculous. Its definitely gotten better under the current chief. However there are still a lot of bad eggs in the police department. There is nothing worse or more destructive that an unprincipled law officer and Spokane has too many of them and they all seem to think THEY ARE ENTITLED to a cushy retirement after nominal service. Citizens YOU gotta break the back of that corrupt police guild and clear out the trash.
nslopeofw on November 17 at 9:59 a.m.
Selkirk-
By “getting around the pay only content” thing, you are stealing. Just like downloading free music, and movies from someone elses HDD Its stealing someone else’s content, and is wrong.
I get the newspaper, therefore, i’m a “paying” customer on the website. I do not steal music, movies, and software, and if i like them, i pay. People work hard for what they produce, and should be compensated. Please dont think its cool to steal, and please dont teach your kids its OK. IMHO
selkirk on November 18 at 9:58 a.m.
@snlopeofw… I am not stealing! I am using a VERY WIDELY used website that EVERYONE in the world uses and it carries EVERY Spokesman Review story in it’s ENTIRETY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
theone31 on November 19 at 8:27 a.m.
I have a few questions on the Karl Thompson issue. When ever the news shows him leaving the court house, what is with that smug, you know what eating grin on his face? Surely he knows the cameras are rolling on him, why would anyone gaze into any camera with facial expressions as he does? It’s very disturbing to watch any public official acting this way on camera. If he truly is innocent of the charges against him, can he not somehow muster enough civility to spare us from seeing him act this way?
uradragon on November 20 at 12:22 a.m.
There is ample evidence of good old boys amongst those in the court house, A go along get along laze A fare philosophy of scratch my back and let me know where it itches attitude. Good luck if someone you care about has become incapacitated and has a bank account. Could we survive without corruption? The left hand knows well of the right hands manipulations.
misjustice on November 20 at 7:46 p.m.
****“We went around the room and kind of expelled our emotions and pent-up comments,” she said…****
So, is this where the corrupt Politics comes in to the picture & the juror told everyone about how corrupt they are up here? Did this juror vent from all her pent up emotions & state her knowledge of those in Spokane swaying the rest of the jurors with her “knowledge”???
****We were all on the fence until Tim Moses took the stand. That man gave everything away,” Riley said of his hostile demeanor toward prosecutors. “You could tell by his attitude and how he presented himself. You don’t get that way unless you are guilty of something or hiding something. It was just a gut instinct that this man was covering something up. ****
Here she states they could tell by his “attitude?” that he was lying? What happened to listening to the testimony and not going by “feelings”? This was an opinion already decided before the rest of the case was laid out. Gut instinct he was covering something up? Gut instinct is NOT facts to consider.
****We had suspected that there was something different about Otto just for that reason,”****
Last: They suspected something different about Otto? They had already formed an opinion about his being different because they had seen pictures of him? Yes, another judgement of forming an opinion without any solid information.
Too many “we thinks” & not enough “solid evidence”. Yes, mistrial & a do over……….
brianrbreen on November 20 at 8:38 p.m.
@JustMeAgain
Here is a model jury instruction for the 9th Circuit. Thought you might find it kinda interesting.
3.9 CREDIBILITY OF WITNESSES
In deciding the facts in this case, you may have to decide which testimony to believe and which testimony not to believe. You may believe everything a witness says, or part of it, or none of it.
In considering the testimony of any witness, you may take into account:
1. the opportunity and ability of the witness to see or hear or know the things testified to;
2. the witness’s memory;
3. the witness’s manner while testifying;
4. the witness’s interest in the outcome of the case and any bias or prejudice;
5. whether other evidence contradicted the witness’s testimony;
6. the reasonableness of the witness’s testimony in light of all the evidence; and
7. any other factors that bear on believability.
The weight of the evidence as to a fact does not necessarily depend on the number of
witnesses who testify.
misjustice on November 20 at 8:45 p.m.
Brian, nothing is gonna sway GrammaAgain…her mind is like a trap door, that has been nailed shut.
brianrbreen on November 20 at 8:51 p.m.
@misjustice
I know….. just waiting for the surgery.
brianrbreen on November 20 at 9:00 p.m.
@misjustice
The way I got it figured.
It was the Zehm family.
It was the FBI.
It was the DOJ.
It was the Media.
It was the Bloggers.
It was the dumb citizens.
It was the Jury.
So if things don’t go their way, the next stop has to be the Judge…..Here come da Judge.
Then after the Judge it will be the rotten representation.
liveinfearoftheSPD on November 21 at 9:55 a.m.
@JustMeAgain
Do you really believe if it is said on the witness stand it is the truth?
Somehow that sitting in the witness seat a person is magically compelled to be truthful?
The_Seer on November 21 at 10:00 a.m.
theoneasked: “I have a few questions on the Karl Thompson issue. When ever the news shows him leaving the court house, what is with that smug, you know what eating grin on his face? Surely he knows the cameras are rolling on him, why would anyone gaze into any camera with facial expressions as he does?”
That is Klubber’s normal affect.