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November 21, 2011 in News
Gregoire to seek half-cent sales tax hike
OLYMPIA — Voters could be asked to approve a half-cent sales tax increase next March to help replace a portion of the $1.7 billion in cuts the Legislature will be asked to make when it convenes next week for a special session.
Gov. Chris Gregoire said this morning she would propose an “all cuts” budget that will effect schools, colleges, social services for the poor and elderly and public safety.
“You will see more devastating cuts,” Gregoire said.
At the same time, she will ask legislators to send voters a ballot measure that would increase the state’s sales tax from 6.5 percent to 7 percent for three years, starting in August.
That would raise an estimated $494 million in fiscal 2013, which the referendum would be required to be split so that $411 million went to education, $42 million went for long-term care and developmental disability services and $41 million went for public safety.
The referendum would need a simple majority from both houses of the Legislature to be put on a statewide ballot in March, and a simple majority from voters to become law.
To pass it simply by Legislative action would require a two-thirds majority of both houses.
At a morning press conference, Gregoire laid out her proposed supplemental budget which would cut:
$500 million from public schools and colleges
$384 million from social and human services
$274 million from health services
$111 million from general government
$87 million from prisons and other public safety programs
$16 million from natural resource program
Among the cuts to education that she’s proposing are the reduction of levy equalization payments to some school districts and the elimination of those payments to others. She’s also asking the Legislature to save $99 million by eliminating four days from the 2012-13 school year; that’s an alternative to raising class sizes in grades 4-12, which she had suggested last month. State colleges and universities would see a $160 million reduction in state support through mid 2013. Those three cuts would not take place if the sales tax increase is approved.
Democratic legislative leaders commended Gregoire for her proposals to raise taxes but didn’t rush to support a higher sales tax.
“The governor’s proposed budget reflects how few options remain open to the state,” Senate Majority Leader Lisa Brown of Spokane and Ways and Means Committee Chairman Ed Murray of Seattle said in a prepared statement, adding the proopsal would be added to their discussions.
House Speaker Frank Chopp of Seattle said he was “heartened” Gregoire proposed tax increases. “We owe it to our school children, to our citizens with disabilities and, frankly, to the future of our state to have a discussion about alternatives.”
But Senate Minority Leader Mike Hewitt, R-Walla Walla, said the state should look for significant reforms. “Instead, her ‘solution’ is to go straight for revenue.
“To talk about raising taxes at a time when people are out of work and can’t afford it suggests an insensitivity to what the citizens of this state are going through,” Hewitt said in a prepared statement.
Some groups denounced the proposed cuts to state services. “Harmful cuts that will hurt people of all ages and weaken our economy are not the only option,” the AARP said in a prepared statement.
The Washington State Budget and Policy Center, a progressive group, said the sales tax increase was a short-term solution, but the state needs a long-term reform, such as a capital gains tax that the organization is pushing.
Gregoire said a capital gains tax isn’t really an option for generating revenue in the short-term because without an income tax, Washington doesn’t have an easy way to collect it.
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misjustice on November 21 at 11:29 a.m.
Lol!
As if the voters are gonna vote “yea” on this? Remember the hue and cry over the sodie pop/candy tax?
Jethro_toll on November 21 at 11:41 a.m.
So how long has this train been going down this track? Gregoire only acts after the building is on fire not when there is just smoke.
She is desparate and incompetent.
So whose to blame for the $2 million cell phone fiasco and why are they not being held responsible?
healinhand on November 21 at 11:54 a.m.
How about NO!!!!!!
Let me spell that for you ………..NO
Truthhurts on November 21 at 11:55 a.m.
Sadly necessary just to keep a fraction of the basics.
westerly on November 21 at 12:02 p.m.
This will keep the college profs salaries stable at $400,000 a year and thousands of other state employees…”we can’t cut their salaries, they have them for life!” Its in the contract!!!” They forced us to sign it!”
richardch on November 21 at 12:02 p.m.
Tax and spend,tax and spend, tax and spend,when will it end.
The_Seer on November 21 at 12:12 p.m.
jetrho: You are starting to sound like your old friend Aqualung.
Where’s my tax cut?
valleyman on November 21 at 12:15 p.m.
@truthhurts: Sadly necessary? Really? You can say that with a straight face?
The only thing that’s necessary over in Olympia is for the governor and the rest of the do nothings to realize that the gravy train has reached the end of the tracks and start living within a budget. Do families get to go and ask their neighbors to give them more money when their budgets reach the point where they have no additional money to spend, or do they have to tighten their belts? It’s high time for the government to start doing the same.
valleyman on November 21 at 12:16 p.m.
@the_seer: Well, we’ve tried your way with taxes in this state, and look where it’s gotten us… Maybe we ought to try and figure out a way to bring businesses here and I can tell you right now, that isn’t by raising ANY taxes.
Where’s my tax raise?
Shadedmuse on November 21 at 12:21 p.m.
1 Sales taxes are regressive
2 Sales tax’s areunreliable for revenue source and that is why Washington state has a budget problem because No one is spending.
3 Any Cain-Pro sales tax people should support a sales tax increase
4 We need to eliminate the sales taxes and replace then with an Income tax.
RANT OFF
hcamper on November 21 at 12:23 p.m.
I’m betting it passes by legislative action. There is no way the public will vote for this. I’m sure our elected officials know way more than we do.
johnclarke on November 21 at 12:23 p.m.
That’s the thing, you can have an income tax or a consumption tax.
Pigrobin on November 21 at 12:27 p.m.
…or you can cut spending.
Coffee on November 21 at 12:27 p.m.
That would raise an estimated $494 million in fiscal 2013, which the referendum would be required to be split so that $411 million went to education, $42 million went for long-term care and developmental disability services and $41 million went for public safety.
I see a bribe to the teachers union here, disguised as helping the children.
misjustice on November 21 at 12:27 p.m.
Or both!
Where I grew up, back east, they have a city tax, a county tax, a state personal income tax, and a sales tax…and it’s a bloody red state!
In hindsight, maybe the tax on sodie pop and candy wasn’t so bad afterall??????
; )
misjustice on November 21 at 12:28 p.m.
“Or both” was aimed at JC’s comment…
; )
Shadedmuse on November 21 at 12:38 p.m.
Red states are Hypocrites like Idaho who has both an Income and sales tax. at least Montana and Oregon are progressive with being sales tax free.
misjustice on November 21 at 1:13 p.m.
That may/may be true Shaded; Oregon and Montana both sock it to ya when you register those vehicles that you didn’t pay sales taxes on…
The truth is many states have various formulas for collecting taxes in order to pay for the bidness cost of runnin’ the state.
What is also true is that they will get the money; one way or another! If the state doesn’t have a sales tax they still get the money, they just use a different route to get there! The lack of a sales tax just means that residents will be hit by a different tax.
misjustice on November 21 at 1:14 p.m.
Oops…
May/may NOT be true…
Rand on November 21 at 1:17 p.m.
Temporary. You guys crack me up…. temporary.
I have an idea. Every time there is a proposed cut I always hear how it will cost us money if we cut said program. “For every $1 in spending we save $10 blah blah blah.” All of these programs that save us money have been in place for quite some time so I say we finally use those “savings” in a time of need such as this.
slamdunk on November 21 at 1:17 p.m.
College professors don’t make $400, 000 a year. Not even close. Try $40, 000.
DDC on November 21 at 1:18 p.m.
It’s not how much you spend, it’s what you get for your money.
Here’s what we’re paying for:
http://data.spokesman.com/salaries/state/
Take a look and see if you perceive value for your tax dollar.
misjustice on November 21 at 1:56 p.m.
rand, as in Ayn Rand??????
Who wrote fiction railing against the state while collecting state benefits such as social security? Hypocrite much?
lowtechmaster on November 21 at 2:21 p.m.
Any sales tax is regressive, which means that it hurts most those that earn the least, and hurts the least those that earn the most. A better idea is to TAX CAPITAL GAINS!
Gato on November 21 at 2:42 p.m.
I’d be glad to pay an extra half a cent to keep the poor off the streets, teachers in schools, prisoners in prison. I say go ahead, make it an entire penny. Sure, it’s a little regressive, and yeah, you can always find some example of waste in any government or business or household. But those issues aren’t relevant to the immediate question: Raise taxes a small amount or make major cuts in state programs that help the poor, that help kids, and that preserve public safety.
soccermomsusie on November 21 at 2:44 p.m.
This means I would be paying 2.5 cents more for my Grande chocolate-covered-cherry latte Macchiatto with Geritol shot at Starbucks!!! NO WAY!!!!
The spending in this state is out of control. College janitors make $350,000 a year. Governor Christfiend Gregoire’s 75 foot hovercraft sloop cost us 30 million. Her robot army was partly paid for by Homeland Security money, but their lasers go through a lot of batteries THAT WE PAY FOR. And why does Washington State need its own SPACE PROGRAM?!?!
Happy to join the rest of you on this forum who are holding the line. We are ready to sacrifice our public (GODLESS) schools in order to stay ideologically pure. If Newt Gingrich becomes president, the wee ones will be working at McDonalds or Halliburton anyway JUST LIKE THE GOOD OLD DAYS!!!
HEAR OUR VOICE!!!
whip5209 on November 21 at 2:49 p.m.
@shadedmuse; The last thing we, the taxpayers of Washington, want is an income tax. Those are crooked and complicated. I would OK a sales tax increase as LONG AS IT GOES THROUGH THE PROPER HOOPS. The sneaky way the soda tax was put through caused backlash that Olympia is still trying to deal with. No tax is temporary, at least to a liberal. Once enacted we will have it for life. I’d rather deal with a sales tax. At least I can keep track of that one.
valleyman on November 21 at 2:51 p.m.
Call a sales tax regressive as much as you want. It’s merely a label attached by liberals to describe something they don’t like.
The reality is this: A sales tax is a fair tax because it cannot be avoided. Unlike income taxes which we all know don’t collect nearly what they should, a sales tax goes after consumer goods and thus can’t be cheated/exempted out of.
Now, before you all start whining about how much this disproportionately impacts the poor, I want you to understand something about income. While it is true that as a portion of income, the poor will pay more than the rich if they buy non-food goods that are subject to taxes, it is untrue that the rich pay less under a sales tax system. The reason is this: The rich have higher disposable incomes and tend to spend more money on higher ticket items than the poor. Thus this regressive tax actually does what ever good Democrat wants - it collects more money from the rich.
A sales tax collects revenue based on consumption habits whereas an income tax penalizes regressively (or progressively if you are a liberal) based on how much you earn.
I’m really tired of hearing how the rich don’t pay their fair share. What is fair? Who determines what is fair? Is it really equitable in a free society to say that those who use services at a disproportionately higher rate should pay little to nothing for those services while those who use services at a disproportionately lower rate pay for everyone else?
Fairness is about equality - and that means sharing in both the good and the bad rather than saying “I’ve done enough, it’s up to my rich neighbor the business owner or the guy who earned his millions to pony up more because I’m jealous of his success and I embody the give me society.”
whip5209 on November 21 at 2:51 p.m.
And…go ahead and cut back on the social programs. Those people, schools, welfare, long term care, all of them have been getting an unlimited free ride for years. They need to do what ALL of us have been doing for the last year. Tighten their belts and cut back on spending.
whip5209 on November 21 at 2:54 p.m.
@ valleyman; it’s about time to drop all the rotten taxes (sales, income)and go to something simple. Perhaps a VAT or something on that order (Value Added Tax). Everyone pays that, even politicians and wealthy. They buy a fancy jet, they pay VAT.
misjustice on November 21 at 2:54 p.m.
Good point, soccermom; let the lil’ ones pick up the slack. Child Labor laws are outdated and not needed.
Newt is correct! Kids should be workin’ for 2.00 per day to help their lazy parents; 60.00 per month would go a long way towards payin’ the Avista bill!
If child labor is good enough for the Chinese it is good enough for the lazy ‘Mericans! Afterall, we are in the global jobs auction and the race to the bottom; why should China beat us????
valleyman on November 21 at 2:59 p.m.
Let me pose this question and see how many of your liberals can answer it:
Are your wages going up? Answer - No
Are the prices of goods you buy going up? Answer - Yes
Since your wages aren’t going up, but it costs more to do anything, buy anything, and go anywhere, where does government think they get off on asking us to pay more for services?
What drives the cost of services? Answer - Salaries and benefits.
Who has been getting raises and benefit increases while everyone else gets to make due with the same in the face of growing costs? Answer - Government employees.
Now, why was it again I should want to pony up more money voluntarily when I, and millions of other non-government employees aren’t getting wage increases that even keep up with general inflation?
I’ve found in my experience that most public sector workers are more than happy to be generous with everyone else’s money given that this money pays their wages. They banter about keeping kids in school and prisoners in prison, and food in every home. Yet our schools still suck, or prisoners still get out, and we still have hunger… This is a failed system, that is unless you’re one of those who pays your taxes with tax money - i.e. wages earned through your tax-payer funded job.
The_Seer on November 21 at 3:27 p.m.
valleyman: I’m a public educator and haven’t experienced a raise in wages for three years. Last year we gave back 2%. Public sector workers across the board in Washington have agreed to wage and hiring freezes for several years. Your example is completely inaccurate. Revenues are down and spending has followed suit. Did you miss all of the cuts to state programs since 2008? Well? You are definitely proof it doesn’t necessarily require intelligence or a critical mind to become wealthy.
soccermomsusie on November 21 at 3:32 p.m.
Valleyman, if only those public servants had to pay taxes too!
What you say is infused with wisdom - “They banter about keeping kids in school and prisoners in prison, and food in every home. Yet our schools still suck, or prisoners still get out, and we still have hunger… This is a failed system,”
YOU SAID IT! If something doesn’t work 100% it is not worth doing! I never bowl because I know I won’t bowl a perfect game.
We would all save a lot of money and have the same results if we let all the prisoners out of prison, kicked all the kids out of school, and did away with grocery stores! I mean really, I ate earlier today and now I am hungry again. SO MUCH FOR EATING!!! EATING DOES NOT WORK!
Maybe the invisible Hand of God - THE FREE MARKET- would be able to mix all those convicts, children and hunger up together and come up with a miraculous free market solution! YUM!
One great thing I enjoy about being a Republican is how the people I vote for tend to not worry - just let go and let God, they say. GWB would not talk to our enemies, CathyMcMoRo will never consider raising taxes, etc. IT IS EASY TO BE A REPUBLICAN! DON’T DO ANYTHING AND JUST LET THINGS FALL WHERE THEY MAY! NO EGGHEAD ELITISTS!! NO WORKEE WORKEE!!
JOIN US!!!
HEAR OUR VOICE!!!
Rand on November 21 at 3:45 p.m.
Yes cutting education is so horrible. How about we keep this nugget in mind when talking about adult daycare, I mean community college. This is straight off of their website:
Ok so apparently they assume 12 credits is full time so lets say in a “full” year that is 12x3 or 36 credits for $6,603,. $3,484 is paid for by the state. So the state is paying $96.78 per credit at the community college level.
An average 5 credit class at a CC has roughly 30 kids, thus for every class the state is paying (96.78 x 5) 483.90 per student. Also the student is paying ((3119/36)x5)) $433.19 to be in the class.
So in total for the average 30 kid 5 credit class the CC is taking in $27512.70 per class of which $14,517 is from the state. Keep in mind that these classes are usually about 10 weeks and take up one hour per day.
So remember for the 14 classes in Microsoft Word that is offered this semester at SCC the state is paying (14,517 x 14) $203,238. Also remember the school is taking in from the students and the state a total of $385,177.80 to teach Microsoft Word.
I don’t know about you but I see plenty to cut here. How much does Word for dummies cost?
Shadedmuse on November 21 at 3:59 p.m.
SInce Gregoire is for increasing the sales tax, this is proof she is not the Liberal the flying monkeys paint her as. Gregoire is a true Conservative if she is for a sales tax and against and income tax, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it tea-baggers.
valleyman on November 21 at 4:28 p.m.
@seer: I’ll take your sweetheart retirement and benefits over a DEFERED pay raise. Sorry, you get no sympathy from me for having to share some of the pain that comes from smaller, more responsible government. You deduced I’m wealthy from my comments on wealth and income versus taxation? If that’s your use of critical reasoning skills, and you teach our youth, God help us all. I can assure you, I make less than you do, and I know this from looking up the median salary for those in “public education.”
@soccermom: If used the other half of your brain that isn’t involved in making your snarky comments, you might just discover there really is some logic to trying something other than the same old tired liberal policies that have been proven time and again NOT TO WORK. Hear your own voice…
Shadedmuse on November 21 at 4:36 p.m.
Valleyman history has shown that the republican policys are the failed policies and its 30 years of trickledown republican BS and deregulate everything is the reason the u.s is in the tank, it was phil Gram who deregulated the banques and he got out of the Senate before the train came off the tracks and ran Mccains failed presidental camp.
lowtechmaster on November 21 at 4:37 p.m.
Valleyman: Any economist of what ever political persuasion will tell you that any sales tax is regressive
Many, but not all, public employees have been getting absurd raises (our Water Department is a fine example)! But check the raises for Avista employees!! Outrageous!! And many public employee unions have taken pay cuts and/or increased their share of such things as medical insurance.
But who is getting more $$? Corporations, oil and other industries, and the very rich!
See USA Today articles!!
You and other private sector employes are not getting a raise? Move to the private financial, oil, tech sectors (or Avista and other utilities). Great raises and “bonuses” (even when you are fired).
I am well over 70. I’ve had no Social Security COLA for two years. The next one will be whipped out by increases in Medicare (Yes, I paid into both system…I’m not get a perk, rather what I contracted for [read up on contract law]. Further, my investments and bank accounts have all but disappeared—because of corporate greed, as has the value of my house.
Also, am not a liberal. I am politically independent.
Finally, what do you suggest
lowtechmaster on November 21 at 4:46 p.m.
Rand: Possibly the best innovation in public higher education, after the GI Bill, has been the development of the community college system which allows students to get a higher education without leaving home and paying the costs of attending college on campus.
Also, I note that your diatribe does not condemn subsides the state pays for those who attend four-year colleges and universities.
Possibly, rather than have “adults” better themselves and become contributors to society, you’d prefer that they go on welfare or take up a life of crime?
I suggest that you buy EDUCATIONAL FACTS FOR REAL DUMMIES.
lowtechmaster on November 21 at 4:48 p.m.
Soccermomsusie and Seer: You are both on target! Thank you!
oneanddone on November 21 at 5:18 p.m.
Grew up in Illinois, before they had a sales tax. I still remember my mom and dad talking about the promise that it would only be temporary and be offset with a cut in state income tax. Illinois now has some of the highest sales and income tax rates of any state. In other words, once it was on the books they couldn’t get rid of it because of the special interests wanting it to continue. I live in Idaho so it doesn’t affect me but Washington voters are idiots if they believe ANY tax is temporary.
The_Seer on November 21 at 5:20 p.m.
valleyman: The state has cut 10.5 billion in spending the last three years. That means no raises, hiring freezes, more employee contributions to benefit packages and tons of layoffs. Your claim we are getting more during these hard times while the private sector languishes isn’t true and since that fact is easily established that would make you one who knowingly spreads untruths. In my vocabulary classes we’d call that a liar.
Tell me how that is working out? Have revenues to the government increased or decreased during this trial of austerity? What has happened to private sector profits during that same time period?
Believe me, we’ve tried what you advocate ad naseum. Giving more to the wealthy and letting everyone else fend for themselves isn’t a solution.
mjamesd on November 21 at 5:28 p.m.
In a recession where thousands have lost their jobs, homes, benefits, pensions, and dignity, the Democratic and Republican parties still just don’t get it. Working people cannot abide these cuts any longer. And making us pay for an economic crisis we didn’t create is not only unfair, it’s just plain immoral. Those who have made millions of dollars and gained unprecedented political power in this state through the obscenely unfair tax system, the financial and economic crises created by Wall Street, and the federal government’s anti-worker policies should pay their fair share in taxes. While we are forced to pay more and more of our income in taxes, while corporations raise prices to pad their profits, and the government refuses to seek real solutions to the problems workers face, this governor proposes once again that working people pay up. I say no more! More sales tax is not the way to solve our problems; taxing the rich and corporations who immorally stole millions of dollars of workers’ wealth is the only way to balance the budget fairly!
detroitdude on November 21 at 5:29 p.m.
I laugh at those who get pissy over half a penny.
The_Seer on November 21 at 5:36 p.m.
oneanddone: You don’t get to comment about tax policy in Washington because you live in Idaho. Idaho receives more in federal payments than they pay in taxes while us in Washington and other liberal states get to pick up the difference. Maybe if you leeches in red states started paying your way places like Washington wouldn’t have to slash our state government.
http://gumption.posterous.com/disproportionate-ratios-between-red-and-blue
If Washington simply got back 95 cents (instead of .88) from what we pay in federal taxes there would be no budget deficit. Same for California. But no. What we get are the Jethro’s and Ellie Mae’s of Red State America sucking from our largesse while actively trying to destroy those who support them.
What a great country, eh?
RedCedar on November 21 at 5:53 p.m.
More? I haven’t seen any yet.
It may or may not be a good idea to raise the state sales tax but I would really like them to be honest about the percentage increase. The current state sales tax rate is 6.5% (the rest is local option sales tax). Raising the state tax rate by 0.5% is a 7.7% tax increase, not a 0.5% increase or a “half penny” increase (unless you only buy something that costs a dollar). A 7.7% tax increase may not break the bank, but it’s not chump change either.
Here’s an idea, if they want to raise taxes: how about broadening the sales tax base by putting the tax back on food? That’s not as regressive as it sounds because clearly poor people buy cheaper food than rich people. Or better yet, how about eliminating the sales tax exemption for airplanes? With every other product manufactured in Washington, if the customer has a business presence in Washington and buys the product from a Washington company, they have to pay Washington sales tax on it. Unless it’s an airplane.
JBlim on November 21 at 5:58 p.m.
I’m in for a half percent. I don’t mind paying for it at all. Only Republican whiners think they deserve a free lunch.
Jethro_toll on November 21 at 6:34 p.m.
Valleyman knows it all. Maybe he should run for Governor?
The_Seer on November 21 at 6:37 p.m.
redcedar: 10.5 billion in the last three years. Add this two billion more and that is 12.5 billion. You haven’t “seen” any cuts? What planet to do you live on?
selkirks on November 21 at 6:42 p.m.
I don’t mind the increase. I will gladly pay more so that we can continue to fund essential services without dramatic cuts.
People fail to realize that we need a balanced approach, according to most economists. Decrease spending. Increase revenue. I would be happy to pay more to reach that goal.
selkirks on November 21 at 6:49 p.m.
Oh, and thank you to:
@The_Seer
@soccermomsusie
@lowtechmaster
@mjamesd
@Shadedmuse
for actually making some sense. We can’t forever say “no” to tax increases of some kind. It’s not possible economically.
DickAdams on November 21 at 7:47 p.m.
I`m wonder the percentage of citizens who have paid cash to avoid the sales tax, making some kind of deal with a person in their transaction? My gut feel tells me it amounts to tens of millions of dollars. I`ve been asked to pay cash so a business person can take advantage of a bigger profit, but I refuse to do it. Maybe its because with my luck, I`d be afraid I could get caught. I do however, cross over into the state of Idaho because of Gregoire wanting the citizens to pay some the highest taxed stuff in the nation. We in the state have several items where because of Gregoire et al, provided the ways and means to rank us in the top 3% of the good old U S of A.
BTW, its not difficult to find out who the thief’s are not paying the amount of sales tax they should pay.
RedCedar on November 21 at 7:51 p.m.
Seer, perhaps what I should have said is that I haven’t seen any effect of these “cuts”. Perhaps they were only cuts relative to the rate of increase that had been projected using baseline budgeting. Are you telling me that the state of Washington is actually spending $10 billion less this year than it did three years ago?
No doubt there have been some actual cuts to something somewhere, but it’s not anything that jumps out at the average schmoe like me. The roads are still maintained and new ones are being built.. The schools still teach the children. The firemen still put out fires. The various departments of regulation and permitting for various and sundry this and that still regulate and permit. In my house, when I have to economize and reduce my budget, noticeable things happen. The thermostat gets turned down, there are more beans and rice and less munchie chips in the kitchen, socks with only one hole in them get worn until there are two holes, etc. If the state budget is actually really and truly being cut by all these billions of dollars, with no visible effect, than this recession proved to be a wonderful opportunity to improve efficiency. On the other hand, if the cuts are just budgetary prestidigitation, then it’s no surprise that we’re not seeing any visible effects.
Rand on November 21 at 7:51 p.m.
lowtechmaster,
Yes I am sure you are an independent. I always believe occupy parroters who claim to be independent. My rant by no way excuses the state universities as I am sure their number are far worse. If by the age of “well over 70” you aren’t smart enough or honest enough to admit that almost $30,000 for an hour class for 10 weeks to teach 30 people how to use Word is a waste then there is no hope for you. Also don’t bitch about your lack of COLA increase as the index it is tied to did not rise.
daledamron on November 21 at 7:52 p.m.
I’d prefer a more progressive form of tax, particularly a capital gains tax - but a sales tax will have to do. There are too many people going hungry and without medical care. And we canpt continue to compromise education. We HAVE TO ADDRESS THIS!
selkirks on November 21 at 8:04 p.m.
What about a Value-Added Tax (VAT) instead of any sales, income, or property tax?
Shadedmuse on November 21 at 9:10 p.m.
A VAT TAX is a Sales taxm its the same in any name. it is tacked on at the end for the consumer another regressive form of consumption tax anyone that says other wise is smoking something or deluded.
Rand on November 21 at 9:22 p.m.
If you are smoking something legal like tabacco then you are paying a very regressive tax as well. Is that a problem too?
EagleEye on November 21 at 9:29 p.m.
Selkirks,
A VAT tax is essentially very similar to a sales/consumption tax. Between income and sales/VAT taxes, the latter are more environmentally responsible (because they tend to put a brake on blind consumerism) with the added bonus that they do not penalize initiative and savings/conservation of capital as income taxes are known to do.
Having said that, I would argue that Gregoire made some very big mistakes by spending BILLIONS at a time when many saw the wheels already coming off of the economy. She ignored the voices of reason, throwing money around like a drunken sailor and really should have been more prudent during the fat times. Now she is in the uncomfortable position of having to scramble as the economic tides continue to receed. Therefore, multiple rounds of deep spending cuts are justified and should be implemented before tax increases are even considered.
There is always a tremendous amount of fat buried deep in the budget that the public has no idea about due to the lack of transparency. My bet is that there are still huge dollars that can and should be cut at the middle and upper levels of the various state bureaucracies. There are many well paying government jobs traditionally given to political and financial supporters as part of the spoils system. Many of those jobs (and even entire departments) are highly questionable in terms of their actual benefit to the citizens of our state.
Just look at how Spokane wanted a multi-million dollar bond issue to build a new “evidence facility” for the police. Once the public wisely voted that down, they found a way to perform the same function for a small fraction of the cost.
The same principle applies in State Government. For many politicians, it is far more politically expedient to slash the most visible government functions. Then, when the pain begins to be felt they shout from the rooftops about how necessary it is to raise taxes on everyone. These are common tactics that have been employed by government officials for decades.
At the very least, Gregoire should be exploring potential ways to outsource certain government functions to the private sector in an effort to further slash costs before trying to raise taxes… EE
keithj on November 21 at 9:50 p.m.
I don’t mind paying an extra $3 per month in sales tax. My biggest expense is property and other taxes. Thankfully there is no sales tax on taxes.
I don’t think the tax is regressive. The poor people I rent to spend almost half their income on rent, which is not subject to sales tax. Food also is not subject to the sales tax. If they spend 10% of their income on taxable purchases, the extra half of a percent would amount to .0005 of their incomes—in most cases less than 50 cents a month..
Dazzeetrader11 on November 21 at 9:59 p.m.
Cuts immediately over the next year and I’d do a half cent. Let’s not extend this so it’s amortized……all of her cuts over the next year…and I’d pay half cent more…but it MUST have a sunset clause. Dem libs have this “creep” above them.
EagleEye on November 21 at 10:20 p.m.
@Shadedmuse,
You are mistaken about who deregulated the banks. It was Bill Clinton who actually signed the bill that repealed the Glass–Steagall Act in 1999 which was partially responsible for creating the most recent mortgage bubble that imploded in 2008. As with most fateful legislation, it was a bi-partisan effort.
If you are going to play the partisan politics game, you should at least be willing to fairly attribute full credit where where it is due.
EE
EagleEye on November 21 at 10:31 p.m.
keithj,
Actually, the 1/2 cent sales tax increase amounts to .005 (not .0005). Also, it adds up to more than .50 cents per month for anyone who spends over $100 p/mo on gas for their car (if sales taxes are automatically calculated into the gas price, though I’m not positive about that).
Still, your point is valid that it won’t be any huge amount and cannot truly be considered “regressive” by anyone who takes an honest look at it.
EE
RSGraf on November 21 at 11:07 p.m.
How much could sales tax be cut if we simply closed WSU? It’s worst than worthless anyway.
Pigrobin on November 21 at 11:26 p.m.
“It’s worst than worthless anyway.”
Maybe you mean “worster” or some other thing I can’t figure out.
Pigrobin on November 21 at 11:28 p.m.
I think every man, woman and child should write our good governor a check for $100. I trust her; who’s with me?
The_Seer on November 22 at 9:07 a.m.
rand: The classes teaching “Word” are required as part of a contract with Microsoft who “donated” operating system software and productivity titles to the state university system in the mid 1990’s. Part of those salaries are paid for by Microsoft. The tobacco tax is not regressive. It’s an excise tax that is designed to force users to foot the bill for the spillover costs associated with their behavior. There is nothing “regressive” about making people responsible for their actions, right?
pigrobin: It’s “worse.”
Eagleeye: Why come on an comment if you don’t “know for certain?” The sales tax does not apply to gasoline purchases. Gas has its own taxes.
dazed: 10.5 billion has been cut from state spending the last three years. What is enough for you to move beyond terms like “ammortized” to focusing upon the future of a state you don’t even live in?
keithj: As a landlord you are required to submit your portion of sales taxes for income you receive from leased properties. They are not considered any different than other forms of leased property like cars, et.al.
The neo-cons on this thread really need to stop bashing Gregoire for squandering the tobacco settlement funds. The legislature earmarked the money, not the governor. More than half of the funds received were statutorily earmarked for salmon recovery as part of the settlement agreement. In addition, Gregoire was the state attorney general who negotiated and led the way in this settlement, actions which led to Washington receiving more money than any other state as part of the settlement.
Rand on November 22 at 3:09 p.m.
Well maybe it is time we stop teaching those classes as I guarantee that Microsoft is not footing any significant portion of the bill for those classes. The same argument holds true for many classes in the CC system: swimming, bowling, springboard diving, stress management, first aid, volleyball, yoga, jogging, karate, basketball, kickboxing, skiing, gymnastics, blah blah blah. Don’t pretend that we are getting our money’s worth for these classes. I can’t imagine even the_seer could argue that those are worth the state subsidy of $97 per credit. So your cries of the need to raise taxes are absurd while clear examples of waste are so obvious.
Also if you don’t think the cigarette tax is regressive then you need to look up the definition of what a regressive tax is.