Spokane7
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October 11, 2011 in City
Fundraiser fined for barbecue
County says $480 permit needed to sell hamburgers
“I was dismayed,” said Mary Beth Conklin who received a $175 fine from a health inspector for having a fundraiser barbeque without a permit. The event was to raise money for the Riverside High School senior all-nighter.
(Full-size photo)
Barbecue – busted.
Mary Beth Conklin had organized Riverside High School’s annual homecoming tailgater to raise funds for the senior all-nighter – a tradition welcomed by the small community north of Spokane.
Several volunteers had food handler cards, hamburgers were tested for the right internal temperature, and everybody wore gloves. So Conklin was shocked when a Spokane County health inspector closed down the Sept. 30 event and slapped the group with a $175 fine for not having a permit.
“I think maybe I should be thrown in jail,” Conklin said, joking. “This is not the first time I’ve done this; apparently I’ve broken the law innumerable times. Every time I broke the law, I was selling food to support children, our school and our community.”
According to the Spokane Regional Health District, in order to sell burgers – considered a high-risk item in food-safety terms – the group needed to buy a “temporary food establishment” permit for $480, which is close to the amount the group hoped to raise.
In contrast, the food permit for operating a bed and breakfast establishment is $360 per year.
“It’s frustrating,” Conklin said. “I had no idea.”
Added Steve Bland, another parent and volunteer, “With the cost of the permit, there’s no way to continue the event. We now have one less opportunity to build community in our area, which is in desperate need of such functions.”
Kim Papich, a spokeswoman for the health department, said the inspector was simply doing her job, and “if a big group had gotten sick, then people would be asking: Why wasn’t the health department there?”
The cost of the temporary food establishment permit for high-risk food is basically the same, no matter the size of the event, until it reaches the level of the Spokane Interstate Fair or Hoopfest. There is no sliding scale for smaller events.
But health department officials were quick to point out the Riverside group and others have options to raise money. Items that don’t require a permit to sell include cotton candy, popcorn, corn on the cob, roasted nuts, dried herbs and “deep fried, commercially rendered pork skins prepared for immediate service,” according to information provided by health district.
In addition, a temporary food establishment permit for lower-risk food items is $140. Those items include espresso coffee drinks, commercially precooked food and nacho chips made with canned cheese sauce.
“There are a lot of options out there other than hamburgers,” said Ray Byrne, food program supervisor. He also noted that if the group had been making hamburgers and selling them out of the high school’s already approved kitchen or a permitted concession stand, they wouldn’t have needed an additional permit.
Conklin said she feels stung by the whole incident. She wrote to the health department afterward, “Your inspector crashed one of our major fundraisers for the year, and ruined our attempt to raise funds for a worthwhile event.”
She added, “I do not want to think my tax dollars are going to fund a salary for someone to sneak around in high school parking lots on football Friday nights, giving out tickets to people that volunteer their time to support our schools and students.”
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Lewis on October 11 at 8:35 a.m.
good to see the health inspectors like kicking the average person down. hey health inspector can u say unemployed? your time is coming.
AngryNIdaho on October 11 at 8:53 a.m.
ONLY LIBERALS would attach a $175 fine for not having a $480 permit. It only ENCOURAGES LAWBREAKING.
Hunterman on October 11 at 9:14 a.m.
ONLY RIGHT WING NUTS would demand $480 for a worthy rundraiser. It only ENCOURAGES LAWBREAKING.
biker on October 11 at 9:17 a.m.
“Items that don’t require a permit to sell include cotton candy, popcorn, corn on the cob, roasted nuts, dried herbs and “deep fried, commercially rendered pork skins prepared for immediate service,”
Yup, that will get people out there for lunch. Without complex regulations and oversights, they could not possibly justify their budget.
WHS on October 11 at 9:53 a.m.
Well, there are ways to get around this.
First, attach the bbq’s to the concession stand and go under the schools permit.
Second, don’t charge anything… Nothing more than just a group of people getting together to have a little bbq and fun…
Just put a “donation” jar out.
Personally, this just sounds like a petty little weasel trying to compensate for low self esteem. Little thugs like this need to be taken out behind the woodshed occasionally…
WHS
terrymr on October 11 at 9:56 a.m.
On what basis is regular cheese a significantly higher risk than dreadful canned cheese ?
tobiasg on October 11 at 10:18 a.m.
Ah, the old “I pay your salary” routine.
I’m not thrilled they were handed a violation but at the same time, what IF a hundred people fell ill due to undercooked, improperly prepared food?
It was a fundraiser, but what if it was a place of business that decided to have a barbeque as a way to say thank you, or as a way to drum up business on a summer Saturday afternoon? Wouldn’t you expect that business to have the required permits to do so? At least one would expect that business to look into whether a permit is required or not.
There is another side to this as well, what if there was a neighboring business that serves food and was impacted by this fund raiser?
Permits are required for many things and while I am a huge fan of fundraisers, sometimes it is best to do the research before just going all in and moving ahead with something that might logically involve permit requirements. There were ways around this or ways in which they could have done this fundraiser more responsibly, to blame the health department is displacing the blame.
Slightlyworried on October 11 at 10:33 a.m.
At least the police didn’t show up and start clubbing anyone holding a Pepsi bottle. I guess we are making some progress with local law enforcement.
MrNatural on October 11 at 10:33 a.m.
Gee…hmmm?…let me see…how many food borne illnesses have occurred in and around Spokane resulting from lack of oversight?…none!
I’m all for these good gestures to raise funds for schools but the risk and responsibility to feed the masses wholesome food is best regulated and inspected.
Imagine if you will the e-coli illnesses that have devastated families. Imagine if you will if this was not regulated the number of questionable hygienic vendors who would feed your children and the elderly some kind of infected slop under the guise of fund raiser.
Maybe there can be a compromise of some sort but I’m damn glad that we have competent and thorough health inspectors.
jddavis on October 11 at 10:43 a.m.
I am failing to see how the risk of illness would be mitigated by having the $480 permit. The article mentioned the things this group was doing to make sure the hamburgers were completely cooked, but did not state anything they were doing wrong with food preparation.
I would think the Health Department has bigger issues to work than leaning on a high school parent’s group fundraiser.
DHF on October 11 at 10:50 a.m.
Pretty soon you will have a permit to breathe. What a bunch of BS. They are cooking it to the correct temp, using gloves and some have food handler cards. It’s all about the permit and the county did not get there wheel greased.
MrNatural on October 11 at 11:05 a.m.
I have to disagree jd
How much do you understand about food safety and disease transmission?
Do you have any idea how much educational background it requires plus ongoing training and certification to have competent health inspectors?
Wouldn’t one consider that the greatest risk of food borne illness is posed by ill equipped nonprofessional food preparers?
…and again even if you give a pass on one wouldn’t that open the door to allow a flood of others thus creating a greater risk of food borne illness in our community?
as for the permit to cover cost of inspection…well if you don’t want to pay any taxes to fund public health just how are you going to afford to ensure your food is safe and have health inspections?
gmorton on October 11 at 11:25 a.m.
MrNatural wrote,
“Wouldn’t one consider that the greatest risk of food borne illness is posed by ill equipped nonprofessional food preparers?”
Well, better station one of those Food Gestapo goons in every kitchen in the country, then. “Nonprofessional food preparers” prepare about 99% of all the meals served in the US every day.
Perhaps if you are excessively worried about food not prepared by gummint-supervised bureaucrats, you can skip the school BBQ and take your meals in the courthouse cafeteria.
tobiasg on October 11 at 11:27 a.m.
My thinking is, perhaps for non-profit fundraising, perhaps a smaller fee permit could be obtained.
The only problem with that is it’s SOCIALISM! And I know some people would have a fit over it and then it might cause the health department to lose more funding because of loss of revenue due to the smaller fee.
tobiasg on October 11 at 11:28 a.m.
gmorton wrote,
Source please?
The_Seer on October 11 at 11:34 a.m.
gmorton: I thought you understood logic. Remember “false equivalency?” 99% of food is probably prepared by non professional food preparers. At the same time, those 99% are assuming all the risk for what they prepare and aren’t offering it for public consumption. Even you should be able to discern the difference between the two.
Oh, wait… you just proved you are incapable.
Wasn’t it the Tea Baggers who wanted to rid us of the FDA? That same brand of nonsense is epidemic on this thread.
IHike4Fun on October 11 at 11:39 a.m.
What seems to be epidemic in this tread is people using a story (any story really) to bash the right or the left.
><(((*> on October 11 at 11:41 a.m.
mcdonald’s is selling burgers.
she’s selling burgers.
mcdonalds needs a permit.
she needs a permit.
it shouldn’t matter who is financially “gaining” for this or “where the money goes”.
mcdonalds, burger king, five guys, paul bunyon all pay various inspection fees.
you cannot pick and choose who pays a fee on the fly because of some emotionally loaded “feel good” crap.
if you want to effect change, get involved and effect change.
MrNatural on October 11 at 10:33 a.m.
“how many food borne illnesses have occurred in and around Spokane resulting from lack of oversight?…none!”
ummmm source? just spewing crap? maybe we don’t have that many food born illnesses because we have the health department.
><(((*> on October 11 at 11:42 a.m.
affect change? effect change? to hell with it.
either way.
“Yes You Can!” <- ha!
MrNatural on October 11 at 11:54 a.m.
http://www.srhd.org/services/foodsafe.asp
http://www.srhd.org/links/data.asp
just some enlightening for those who care to be informed.
jddavis on October 11 at 12:00 p.m.
MrNatural—I have some knowledge of food safety and disease transmission.
For some to claim absense of food borne illnesses is the direct result of the Health Department is like saying the absense of speeders and drivers talking on cell phones is the direct result of the police.
Comparing this group of parent supporters selling hamburgers to McDonald’s and BK is crazy. Paying $480 for a one-time permit of an event of this scale is beyond reasonable. This really isn’t that different than jacking-up a lemonaide stand ran by kids.
MrNatural on October 11 at 12:26 p.m.
jd…I stated that some compromise is in order…$480 is steep for this kind of event-fundraiser.
But…these food events I believe need oversight and that cost money to do…how much I cannot say
what I read is keep government out of this…including lemonaide stands run by butt-scratching little kids…
So eat (or drink) at your own risk…that’s the freedom this nation was founded on…sheesh!
tobiasg on October 11 at 12:26 p.m.
Improperly stored, prepared and served ground beef can lead to serious illness. Records are kept for any restaurant that serves ground beef and other meats to trace back the sources of bacteria in case of an outbreak. Proper education on meat handling and preparing is important, as is having the proper licenses for doing such business.
What if they held a keg party to raise funds, would that be alright with you? No permits, no licenses, no education, just $2/glass for all the beer you can drink.
I’m with you but only to an extent. If I were to hold a fundraiser, I would check into what sort of permits or health code issues that might arise. Failing to do so on their part is not a reason to cry in hindsight.
WHS on October 11 at 12:38 p.m.
Sorry, but strongly disagree with several of you.
First, this was a fundrasing event on a pretty small scale. It is not Burger King or McDonalds and there is zero comparison. Seriously, that is a pretty lame argument.
Second, they did not get a ticket for poor food handling, they got a fine because they did not have the proper permit. I would think this weasel agent should be able to tell the difference, and then use a little common sense. Again, what we are talking about is an organization selling something like a hundred or so hamburgers, with the proceeds going to help a non-profit organization.
Third, and this is the most absurd, but tobiasg if some business is affected by this… Well, then this is the least of their worries!
Some of you are really grasping at straws here… I mean going 56 in a 55 is technically speeding… And geez, your speeding could lead to a serious accident, I mean here you are speeding right! Then just think, if you were speeding and lost control, you could crash into a nuclear power plant, thus causing a giant cloud of radiation to descend over a city killings millions! All because you could not go 55. Stupid, you betcha, about as stupid as this fine.
This was a FUNDRAISER and a small one at that. I mean if you listened to many of these folks, then next the local church will have to have a permit to have a Sunday potluck, or next time you decide to have a bbq in your backyard, better go get your permit… Because we know that little permit prevents e-coli. Just ask Burger King.
Bottom line… It was a little weasel flexing his little muscles and trying to feel self-important.
WHS
MrNatural on October 11 at 12:51 p.m.
Google or Yahoo “Food borne illnesses caused by fund raisers.”
><(((*> on October 11 at 12:57 p.m.
“Comparing this group of parent supporters selling hamburgers to McDonald’s and BK is crazy. Paying $480 for a one-time permit of an event of this scale is beyond reasonable. ”
Then do something about it instead of whining and blaming the health department for the codes decided on by people who are involved. I know it’s easier for you to just whine and play the victim.
“First, this was a fundrasing event on a pretty small scale. It is not Burger King or McDonalds and there is zero comparison. Seriously, that is a pretty lame argument.”
so how many burgers have to be sold before they require a permit? 10? 100? 567? 1568? 1 million and 4? sounds based mostly on your opinion than just a nice black and white if you sell food to the public, it requires oversight.
WAIT! better yet, i’ll open a business that only sells 1 burger less than the required permit. I guess the health department doesn’t need to inspect my premises. We don’t serve “enough burgers” to warrant anyone’s concern. 1 person dying from ecoli isn’t bad enough. It has to be 500.
WHS on October 11 at 1:25 p.m.
We are talking about a FUNDRAISER for some high school kids, not some multi-billion dollar corporation or even some small business (which would probably support them anyways!). Also, if you would read beyond your own bullsh*t, you would understand that there were several people with FOOD HANDLER CARDS! Do you even know what that means… It means they were trained in how to handle food properly. I hate to tell you guys, but a permit is not a get out of e-coli free card. Sheesh.
Again, this is bullsh*t and you all know it… It is a case of an over-zealous petty weasel bureaucrat… And probably a tea party member.
WHS
OK, that last line was a joke
jddavis on October 11 at 3:18 p.m.
Phantom—I have no dog in this fight. I call BS on what is clearly BS. I don’t even live close to the Riverside / Colbert area.
MrNatural—totally get it about the “butt scratching” kids. That is why I pay for the lemonaide and don’t drink it.
Lewis on October 11 at 3:25 p.m.
i wonder if the cop selling the wrist bands to support karl thompson has a permit?
just wondering.
Thayne on October 11 at 4:54 p.m.
So this inspector does their job and they’re a weasel. You complain when “government workers” don’t do their job and complain when they do. They can’t win. $480 for a small event like this seems steep - maybe there should be a sliding scale. WHS before you call people names maybe you should know the facts. Just because someone has a food handler card doesn’t mean they have any training. It only means they went online and watched the 30 +/- minutes of safe food handling, then took and passed the test (after paying $20). You have to be a moron not to be able to pass the test after the online presentation. Probably many people could pass the test without watching the online course.
Johnnythunders on October 11 at 5:46 p.m.
Mary Beth-count yourself lucky. At least you weren’t beaten to death or shot point blank by Spokane’s finest. The health inspector’s worried about the fundraiser’s health standards?! LOL!. Ever been to one of our local Burger Kings?
Johnnythunders on October 11 at 5:58 p.m.
Thayne-that’s fascinating, but whatever happened to common sense? This is pathetic…
Orphan on October 11 at 6:43 p.m.
I want more bigger government just like this, think of the kids!!!!
Lewis on October 11 at 6:58 p.m.
think of the employment possibilities, federal worker salaries for standing in a burger joint, drive ins, sports arenas, school cafes, making sure the meat is 166 degrees inside.
they could make a new agency with millions of burger testers.
maybe the fund raising folks can find Mr. Inspectors home and shove 10 pounds of hamburger up his city owned cars tail pipe.
gmorton on October 11 at 7:52 p.m.
tobiasg wrote,
“At the same time, those 99% are assuming all the risk for what they prepare and aren’t offering it for public consumption.”
So what? As I said, if you are worried about the risks, stick with the courthouse cafeteria. Or hire yourself a personal food taster and stay out of other people’s kitchens, businesses, and wallets.
gmorton on October 11 at 8:00 p.m.
phantomsilence wrote,
“so how many burgers have to be sold before they require a permit?”
They shouldn’t need a permit to sell any. What they sell and to whom is none of the gummint’s business.
gmorton on October 11 at 8:07 p.m.
whocaresinspokane wrote,
“think of the employment possibilities, federal worker salaries for standing in a burger joint, drive ins, sports arenas, school cafes, making sure the meat is 166 degrees inside.”
Not to mention everyone’s kitchen. Permit and inspection required if you feed any kids or dinner guests.
Oh, well. Once you create a Nanny State you should expect to soon find yourself in a nation of lifelong infants.
misjustice on October 11 at 8:23 p.m.
This fundraiser was not well thought out.
There are many ways to raise money for the kids that don’t involve selling food, or obtaining permits. The fault in this kerfuffle rests with the adults that planned the event without doing their “homework”.
tobiasg on October 11 at 10:23 p.m.
gmorton says, well, actually gmorton says a lot, a lot that people don’t even say.
If you’re going to quote someone, try to quote the right person alright?
And, if you’re going to quote someone (especially incorrectly), try responding to their request for you to back up the statistics you mentioned earlier in the topic.
WHS on October 12 at 6:45 a.m.
Thayne, actually I complain when workers, government or not, do not use common sense or abuse their position of authority. And, my response about the food handlers card was in response to a previous statement about the Permit, which insinuated that a permit would insure safe food handling… Which really only means they would have required someone to have a food handlers card, of which they did. I merely pointed that out. Hence the weasel part. A good inspector shows up, realizes what this is, checks to make sure things are being done propery and goes home. Common sense says, this is a couple hour deal, a couple hundred burgers, it is for a good cause, they are following safe practices and that’s that. Then he might even explain that next year they need to either get a permit or do something different, buys a burger and moves on.
And this is my opinion, and I stand by it. The guy was a weasel and if I met him face to face I would tell him so.
WHS
><(((*> on October 12 at 8:17 a.m.
Thayne, that is dead right.
“So this inspector does their job and they’re a weasel. You complain when “government workers” don’t do their job and complain when they do. They can’t win.”
and misjustice is completely right on.
“The fault in this kerfuffle rests with the adults that planned the event without doing their “homework”.”
Johnnythunders on October 12 at 9:54 p.m.
Misjustice and phantomsilence could accompany all patrons at future high school fundraisers to the portapotties and make sure they’re wiping front to back-not back to front.
For our own protection of course…
JetBlack on October 16 at 1:29 p.m.
Apparently, it’s the permit that makes the food safe?