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October 27, 2011 in City
Police training expert defends use of force
Officer says Thompson faced potentially dangerous situation
YAKIMA – One of the Spokane Police Department’s top trainers told a jury Wednesday that any situation could justify an officer’s use of force, even taking a burglary report in the victim’s home.
The testimony of Officer Terry Preuninger sparked verbal battles between federal prosecutors and defense attorneys for Officer Karl F. Thompson Jr., who is expected to take the stand today to defend his actions during his encounter on March 18, 2006, with Otto Zehm.
Defense attorney Carl Oreskovich said he will also call retired Detective Terry Ferguson and a firefighter before ending his case today. Federal prosecutors may have one or two rebuttal witnesses, which means the jury most likely will begin deliberating early next week whether to convict Thompson of using unreasonable force against Zehm and lying to investigators afterward.
Preuninger, who teaches patrol tactics at the law enforcement training center in Spokane, said his review of the video and witness statements indicated Thompson acted responsibly and followed his training when he rushed up to Zehm and began striking him with a police baton.
Defense attorney Steve Lamberson asked Preuninger whether Thompson’s use of a baton “served a legitimate law enforcement purpose.”
“Yes,” Preuninger answered.
“If all (Zehm) wanted to do was surrender, he could have done so. (Thompson’s) assessment was accurate. He continued to use force. It did allow him to keep that man from hurting him or anyone else.”
Even though the video from the Zip Trip store where the fatal encounter occurred shows Zehm retreating the entire time, Preuninger’s assessment of Zehm didn’t change.“Picture wrestlers or boxers,” Preuninger said. “It’s definitely not an indication that they don’t want to hurt or assault you because they move back.”
Assistant U.S. Attorney Timothy Durkin pointedly asked Preuninger to explain his findings.
“I listened to your testimony,” Durkin told Preuninger. “I’m having a hard time deciding when force is or is not authorized under your description.”
Preuninger said he is not authorized to use force on a routine matter such as taking a burglary report in the victim’s home “unless you commit a crime and I have to use force to keep you from fleeing.”
Durkin responded: “It’s reassuring to know that I’m at my house and have a good chance not to have force used against me.”
Lamberson objected and U.S. District Court Judge Fred Van Sickle warned Durkin, who then questioned whether officers can use force when no factual basis for that force exists.
“A police officer can make a mistake,” Preuninger said. “An officer could believe their life was in danger or they were in danger of being assaulted when in fact we could go back in hindsight and show that’s not true. But the force would be authorized.”
Lamberson asked Preuninger if he agreed with Thompson’s risk assessment of Zehm, who eventually was hog-tied by several other officers, stopped breathing and died two days later.
Preuninger called it a “dangerous situation.
“I have a suspect who at minimum probably committed a strong-arm robbery. He knows I’m coming and he’s walked into a store with a lot of innocent parties. He could take a hostage. He could use a weapon against other people.”
Van Sickle previously ruled that prosecutors can’t tell the jury that Zehm had not committed a crime.
Durkin pointed out to Preuninger that even Thompson described in his statement that he thought he was responding to a theft or “pre-robbery attempt.”
“You need to have use of force or threat of force” for the crime to be a robbery, Durkin said. “When you look at the (dispatch log) is there any description of use of force?”
Preuninger agreed dispatchers said nothing about use of force. But the two girls who called 911 “must have felt threatened” based on the report that they were scared enough to leave, Preuninger said.
Durkin asked Preuninger if he was aware that studies by the National Institute of Justice show that 2 percent of all police calls lead to officers using some level of force.
Preuninger said he knew the number was low, but also said that officers can’t look at the world like regular citizens.
“If you approach law enforcement situations the same way you would a neighborhood meeting … it will directly lead to you getting murdered on the job or getting hurt or assaulted,” he said. “A police officer becomes an expert in evaluation of behavior or picking out little things that are different.”
Another experienced Spokane police officer, Detective Larry Bowman, testified earlier Wednesday and described how one call to check on a woman quickly ended with a man pushing a gun into his chest.
“He totally overwhelmed me. My gun was still in the holster halfway out,” Bowman said. “He totally overwhelmed my thought process. It wasn’t my time.”
Bowman said officers are trained to advance on suspects to make sure the officer keeps the initiative.
“I want to overwhelm their thinking so they don’t have an opportunity to come up with their own plan,” Bowman said. “You force that person back. The idea is to move on them and redirect their energy onto the ground.”
Under cross-examination by Durkin, Bowman conceded that he had only a couple of angles of the video when he made his initial report that Thompson followed training in his use of baton strikes on Zehm.
“Merely giving an officer a funny look doesn’t authorize an officer to use an impact weapon. Telling an officer to go to hell without more is not sufficient. Correct?” Durkin said. “You need a factual basis that (Zehm) will be or is about to be assaultive before you can use an impact weapon.”
“I would agree with that,” Bowman said.
Also Wednesday, attorneys completed the testimony of forensic video expert Michael Schott. He testified that he did not see a baton strike on Zehm until after Thompson shot Zehm with the Taser.
Prosecution experts and a half-dozen witnesses said Thompson delivered multiple baton strikes to the head and torso of Zehm, who fell to the ground as he held a 2-liter soda bottle. Only then did Thompson fire the Taser as one witness described Zehm as just lying there.
Victor Boutros, a trial attorney with the U.S. Department of Justice, asked Schott why he did not consider witness statements, or even Thompson’s statement, when trying to determine the first baton strike.
“When you are doing a forensic video examination … it’s intentional that I do not try to use witness statements to determine what I can get from the video,” Schott said. “If you have a video where it was not clear and you try to clarify witness statements that conflict, then you have muddied both waters. It doesn’t help.”
1992 murder trial begins against sex offender 
DHF on October 27 at 6:26 a.m.
If this is what Preuninger teaches these officers then the citizens should beware that no matter what, you can be killed for no reason and they can come up with a way to justify it. This is a dangerous precedence.
wdodd on October 27 at 7:03 a.m.
I agree with DHF. They did this too my brother!! It’s been over a year
and 3 days since they shot and killed my brother and the Dodd family has yet heard from the Sheriffs office to answer our questions.. Were still waiting Ozzie!
I think the people should think hard when voting this november.
misjustice on October 27 at 7:17 a.m.
Taken from FBI statistics. Now you know the rest of the story………..********
In the Line of Duty 56 Officers Feloniously Killed in 2010 10/24/11
Fifty-six law enforcement officers in 22 states and Puerto Rico were feloniously killed in 2010, and more than 53,000 officers were assaulted during the same period, according to statistics released by the FBI.
The annual Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted report released today offers the most complete public picture of the fatal circumstances that officers faced in 2010. In chilling detail, the report summarizes most of last year’s fatal confrontations and illustrates a reality that every officer continually trains to recognize: that there are no routine engagements.
The 56 officers killed is an increase over 2009, when 48 officers were killed. However, significant conclusions may not be drawn from year-to-year comparisons given the nature of the statistics. Ten years ago, for example, 70 officers were killed in the line of duty (excluding the events of 9/11), and five years ago 48 officers were feloniously killed.
The 2010 report also shows 72 officers were accidently killed in the line of duty, almost all of them involving vehicles. Meanwhile, 53,469 officers were assaulted while on duty—a figure that amounts to one in 10 of the sworn officers in more than 11,000 agencies that reported data.
All told, the figures illustrate the inherent dangers of law enforcement. Here’s a look at some of the data contained in the report:
Offenders used firearms to kill all but one of the 56 victim officers; one officer was killed by a vehicle used as a weapon.
Of the 56 officers feloniously killed, 15 were ambushed, 14 were in arrest situations, seven were performing traffic stops, and six were answering disturbance calls.
One in three officer assaults occurred while responding to disturbance calls; 14.7 percent occurred while officers were attempting arrests.
The average age of officers killed feloniously and accidentally was, respectively, 38 and 39.
Truthhurts on October 27 at 7:44 a.m.
I did not know police work was so safe. Out of nearly a million police in America, to have 58 or so police shot is a very, very small number.
Which led me to look up that 300 police will kill themselves each year, and that policing is not in the top 10 most dangerous jobs.
The ten most dangerous jobs by fatality are:
1 Logging workers (92 per 100,000)
2 Aircraft pilots (92 per 100,000)
3 Fishers and fishing workers
4 Structural iron and steel workers
5 Refuse and recyclable material collectors
6 Farmers and ranchers
7 Roofers
8 Electrical power line installers/repairers
9 Driver/sales workers and truck drivers
10 Taxi drivers and chauffeurs
Now there is even less excuse that ever to have a departmental policy of running into a Zip Trip, beating a man down with lethal force strikes to the head, and then calling his tazer-flailing “fighting” and his death gurgle “growling and spitting.”
Spokane’s good cops need to seize power in their union.
Bluecollorman on October 27 at 7:52 a.m.
Police are well paid. Why can’t we find more quality people to fill the jobs. Seems that there are a lot of morally bankrupt cowards running around with batons and guns. Not just Karl, but most of his pals too.
Ed Byrnes on October 27 at 8:33 a.m.
@JustMeAgain:
As a statistician who has served as an independent consultant with the U,S. Departments of Justice, Education, Health and Human Services, and Housing and Urban Development, as well as dozens of local jursidictions, I have an observation and recommendation about your use of numbers.
If you are going to cite numbers please provide context. For example, there were 56 felonious homicides and 53,469 assaults on officers. This begs a question of how many officers are there across the country and how many arrests and documented stops did they make. This context allows one to systematically analyze the raw numbers to arrive at a probabilistic understanding of events. Also, for comparative purposes, how many civilians died at the hands of police across the country and how many incidents of police use of force against civilians occurred? Again context matters if you want to draw inferences from numbers, and all you have done so far is describe a small sample.
Please allow me to thank you in advance for providing contextual accuracy in your future postings that involve numbers, which is what your fallen colleagues and us civilians deserve, honest contextual accuracy.
Ed Byrnes
The_Seer on October 27 at 8:37 a.m.
I am completely unable to provide a cogent explanation as to why the police can introduce terms like “possible strong armed robbery” when describing Otto but the defense can’t mention he hadn’t committed a crime? Can anyone help me here?
Does Preuninger’s reference “open the door,” or are the defense witnesses free to refer to an innocent man as a criminal?
The_Seer on October 27 at 8:40 a.m.
liberty: Can you please provide some context that is relevant for your continued citation of the KKK act? Are you claiming the SPD and the SCSO are acting in a manner similar to the KKK and that is why the feds are finally doing something about it?
Truthhurts on October 27 at 8:43 a.m.
Seer: You are right. Surely the door has been opened.
Ed Byrnes on October 27 at 8:43 a.m.
On the basis of this testimony from “…One of the Spokane Police Department’s top trainers…” us civilians have a legitimate basis for concern about the culture that all SPD officers are operating within.
This trainer of our SPD LEOs asserted in testimony that:
“…any situation could justify an officer’s use of force…”
“A police officer can make a mistake,” Preuninger said. “An officer could believe their life was in danger or they were in danger of being assaulted when in fact we could go back in hindsight and show that’s not true. But the force would be authorized.”
“…Thompson acted responsibly and followed his training when he rushed up to Zehm and began striking him with a police baton.”
It appears that our SPD LEOs are being trained to act more in accordance with the ideas of Erich Honecker or Nicolae Ceauşescu than with those of Thomas Jefferson.
This testimony makes it clear that any civilian who fears the SPD has a rational basis for feeling that way.
Ed Byrnes
GaryP on October 27 at 9:17 a.m.
Truthhurts-all of the “most dangerous jobs” you listed are where people die from accidents or their own negligence. I didn’t see military on your list either. How many roofers are MURDERED on the job? Soldiers and Police are jobs where other people try to kill them. You can’t compare that….
Lewis on October 27 at 9:23 a.m.
justme but those number mean nothing where in spokane a cop has not been killed on purpose for over 78 years, but since the early 70’s police here have killed over 35 people.
many of them innocent like Otto and Dodd, and even the innocent get swept under the rug.
The_Seer on October 27 at 9:24 a.m.
Liberty: Thanks. You reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaallllly managed to clear the air for me. I”m forever indebted.
Lewis on October 27 at 9:24 a.m.
garyP get of your soap box read my post above you and i both know a cop hasn’t been killed in spokane for over 78 years.
wdodd on October 27 at 9:30 a.m.
@ justme again I believe that the sheriffs office too went by those raw stats as well. I remember him stating this in the media. Maybe both of you should join forces. If the department uses these figures to justify wrongdoing then we are in big trouble here!!
It sounds like to me that we need more competent people running that office instead of someone taking only one sided reports of no contextual accuracy. Remember this is election year and hoping everyone sees through this!!
brianrbreen on October 27 at 9:34 a.m.
@JustMeAgain
Thank you for the stats., and you make a valid point. I was curious if you have an explanation as to why there is a decrease in the average number of officers feloniously killed in the line of duty per year between 1993-2001 when the average was 64.4 per year and 2002-2010 when the average was 52.3. It appears the average number of officers feloniously killed in the line of duty per year is on a decline, and I’m wondering what you would attribute that to.
Another thing that concerns me is that the FBI recently released the ARDs (Arrest Related Deaths) by Law Enforcement and even without all jurisdictions reporting it looks like they are on the rise, as you may know those stats were between 2003-2006 only, and the FBI is having a little trouble getting all the law enforcement agencies to report. I wonder how that might correlate with what appears to be a decrease in the average number of law enforcement officers feloniously killed in the line of duty.
One good thing about the officers killed in the line of duty stats. is that Washington State is always on the low end, and here in Spokane we have been pretty lucky.
trustbutverify on October 27 at 9:35 a.m.
Listen to Spokane’s top police trainer! Just goes to show everyone that the most dangerous element of society you will come across in your life is not the burglar or the street thief, it is possibly a SPD officer in uniform. You can die by their rash decisions and some of them really don’t care!
I thought part of the police job was to error on the safe side for protection of the community and yes that would mean it would be a somewhat dangerous job. But it seems they want to make it extremely safe and only for them. They want to turn the job into a low risk job (but keep same high pay) that even allows them to be judge, jury and executioner when they need it to. And if they kill someone innocent as Otto was, they are not above lying about it and apparently they can bring in their trainers to justify their actions.
I know that there are many good and great cops out there and I believe that they are the majority but there are way too many bullies and creeps too. Because of the bad ones I tell my children to not talk to police and avoid them entirely. Why do the good cops and police chiefs allow the trade to get the horrible reputation it is fast becoming. One answer could be the completely self serving police guild only caring about protecting their own and making the job as easy and risk free as possible. “To serve and protect” I bet those words have never been mentioned in any guild meeting. Maybe they should just add “ourselves” to the motto.
The_Seer on October 27 at 9:44 a.m.
Brian Orchard was killed in the line of duty as a member of the SPD in 1983.
I worked with the police guild on a benefit circus to secure scholarship funds for his children.
Ron_the_Cop on October 27 at 9:45 a.m.
Good morning all,
SFD paramedic has been on stand. Retired Det. Ferguson now being called. This should get interesting on cross. You can watch the news media feed on twitter by using the search word #zehm. I’m again providing commentary on “Rick Rydell KXLY” facebook page. Just put in the search word in quotes. This page is open for all to view.
trustbutverify on October 27 at 9:51 a.m.
A good thing for the guild to do for the policeman’s family and certainly a part of their purpose. Can you ask them to do something for Otto’s family too? I wonder how much they would do for a family hurt by policeman’s actions?
JayNW on October 27 at 9:52 a.m.
I rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Al_Loysius on October 27 at 9:57 a.m.
Likely verdict: Hung Jury.
Lewis on October 27 at 10:23 a.m.
yes now many are seeing what a few have been saying for years, the police can kill at will and completely bypass a persons civil liberty rights with out a care in the world.
and then just lie about it get 2 weeks paid vacation to las vegas, come home kick the cat punch the wife and go back to his high paying job.
Lewis on October 27 at 10:26 a.m.
seer yes killed in the line of duty by accident it was not a on purpose killing, big difference.
post all the facts next time
The_Seer on October 27 at 10:34 a.m.
whocares: Brian Orchard wasn’t killed “on purpose?” Tell that to Lonnie LInk who received life in prison for his murder. Tell that to the twelve jurors who found him guilty.
http://www.kxly.com/news/21536239/detail.html
You could have discovered this information in five seconds using google. I’m pretty certain readers can discern to whom facts matter or not.
herewegoagain on October 27 at 11:11 a.m.
Reading testimony from Defense witnesses is sickening. These people are paid to serve and protect not to beat the crap out of people at the drop of a hat. What ever happened to detaining and asking questions?
To read what a top police trainer justifies as appropriate use of force is beyond belief.
The Defense attorney is turning this unwarranted attack on an innocent citizen into a justifiable, routine police action.
JayNW on October 27 at 11:30 a.m.
guess the truth of the case is hard for some to hear.
brianrbreen on October 27 at 11:52 a.m.
@JayNW
Or, hard for some to see.
Ron_the_Cop on October 27 at 12:23 p.m.
FYI Ofc. Thompson still on direct. Court just took noon recess. Back at 1:15 PM.
The_Seer on October 27 at 12:36 p.m.
jaynw: Dude! I missed you last week when the prosecution was presenting the “truth.” Where were you?
mikeln on October 27 at 1:15 p.m.
I wonder just how they plan on filling these prisons now that they have eliminated so many crimes from investigation, scary. This is one of the biggest problems with our government, the inablity to admit mistakes, like the war on drugs. Whatever happened to honesty?, it sure doesn’t exist here anymore.
The_Seer on October 27 at 1:52 p.m.
mikeln: What you described in epidemic, especially in the public school system. Most of the people I work with would rather hide behind lies of conveniance rather than confront truths that are ocassionally messy and require nuanced thinking for solutions.
nslopeofw on October 27 at 2:05 p.m.
Seer-
Damn, its an area where i not only agree with your posts, but also cheer you on. Life is a weird trip, aint it!
Lewis on October 27 at 2:51 p.m.
seer did you read the article? Lonnie did not know he was a cop at the time of the shooting.
OK one cop killed since when 1983? so where are these other 56 cops killed? not in spokane this story is about a cop killing a man in SPOKANE!!!
No cops have been killed here in 28 years but 35 citizens i can remember have been killed by police now tell me why are the cops so scared, it has been almost 30 years since one of us killed a cop care to explain why it seems murder by cop is on the rise in spokane?
Lewis on October 27 at 2:58 p.m.
seer could the cops be scared because they are addicted to drugs and are paranoid? I mean they scream self defense so loud their garters shift.
since the piglets are above taking drug tests could it be they are full of alcohol and drugs their minds are on over drive, or no longer able to see difference between little old lady and biker thud?
just asking since your an expert.
wdodd on October 27 at 3:10 p.m.
@ seers in your last statement made, The_Seer on October 27 at 1:52 p.m.
mikeln: What you described in epidemic, especially in the public school system. Most of the people I work with would rather hide behind lies of conveniance rather than confront truths that are ocassionally messy and require nuanced thinking for solutions
YOU MUST WORK FOR THE SPD OR PR MAN FOR THE SPD!!!
misjustice on October 27 at 4:20 p.m.
Mr. Byrnes: I took the information directly from the FBI’s web page, as I stated in the posting. If you want any of the other information, I suggest you do a bit of digging.
GaryP: You are so correct!!
Whocares & wdodd: The number of officers killed mean everything! Just because they weren’t killed in WA, doesn’t mean the officers need to be lax & let their guard down so they can be killed.
brianbreen: I don’t have any of the answers to your questions.
Truthhurts says:
The ten most dangerous jobs by fatality are:
1 Logging workers (92 per 100,000)
2 Aircraft pilots (92 per 100,000)
3 Fishers and fishing workers
4 Structural iron and steel workers
5 Refuse and recyclable material collectors
6 Farmers and ranchers
7 Roofers
8 Electrical power line installers/repairers
9 Driver/sales workers and truck drivers
10 Taxi drivers and chauffeurs
*****
All of these are from probably stupidity of their own doing. I doubt if any of these had nut jobs shooting at them with the intent to kill them.
brianrbreen on October 27 at 5:36 p.m.
@JustMeAgain
My theory is that over the last 20 years training and tactics in the area of officer protection and defense tactics has improved, which is good. But my concern is that there is times when the improved tactics and the reasons for the improved tactics aren’t articulated the way they should be, and all to often may be used as a rationalization or justification for inappropriate conduct. That is when it crosses the line with me.
With all due respect to Officer Preuninger, and I know he is a good kid, but I think that regardless of the out come in the Thompson trial he should look back on his testimony and reflect upon how he was used, and what he actually said. It really did sound as if police officers can justify the use force in almost any situation, and we all know that isn’t the least bit true.
Regarding the increase in ARDs, I have no idea why that happened from 2003-2006, and I have no idea whether or not they have increased or decreased between 2006-2010. But it is something that probably should be studied to see if there may be some correlation with recent training and tactics.
What is really troubling for me, and it should be for any cop, cop hater, and all those in between, is the difference in the evidence and Officer Thompson’s statement to Ferguson which he apparently has now admitted on the stand is not depicted in the video.
“ he’s moving away from me, as I’m closing distance, he turns around and this would have been where he uh, was standing, started swinging at me. As I approached to get close enough again to try and push him or knock him down to the floor, he’s standing, standing there boxing with both fists, throwing punches.”
Ed Byrnes on October 27 at 8:33 p.m.
@JustMeAgain:
Thank you for inviting me to look into the data myself, and to provide you and our fellow forum participants an example of what context means when applied to numbers.
The most recent FBI count of Sworn Law Enforcement Officers in the U.S. is for 2009, so I am using their 2009 count of officers feloniously killed for consistency.
In 2009 there were 452,037 Sworn Law Enforcement Officers in the U.S. In 2009 there were 48 Sworn Law Enforcement Officers in the U.S. who were feloniously killed.
Calculating the basic probability of an LEO being feloniously killed is pretty basic and dates back to the seventeenth century work of mathematicians Blaise Pascal and Pierre de Fermat. Suffice it to say that their theorems are proven and have withstood the test of time.
So back to our data:
The formula for basic probability of an event is the number of qualifying cases (officers killed) divided by the total number of cases (total officers on the job) in the population. So 48 LEOs feloniously killed divided by 452,037 sworn LEOs is 48/452,037 for a probability of a sworn LEO being feloniously killed of 0.000106186. This roughly translates into a rate of 1 in 10,000 or a 0.01% chance of a LEO being feloniously killed.
These data are from the FBI data source that you cite yourself.
If you want to begin discussing conditions around LEO felonious homicides it requires using Bayesian statistics, originally developed by the eighteenth century mathematician Thomas Bayes. I don’t do Bayesian statistics for free though I will offer you this deal: You specify an additional condition for analysis and produce the raw data, providing the source for verification, and I will apply Bayes’ theorem and report the conditional probability, including my calculations for verification.
JustMeAgain, thank you for your invitation and this opportunity to demonstrate how raw numbers gain more meaning when placed in their appropriate context. Also, if we are going to do more statistical work together please share your name with me since it is customary and collegial to know who one is working with.
Ed Byrnes
Lewis on October 28 at 12:03 a.m.
justmeagain those numbers mean nothing here in spokane. not one cop has been killed here in 28 years!!
so why are the cops HERE so afraid that is the question care to answer IT?
Ed Byrnes on October 28 at 1:00 p.m.
@JustMeAgain,
I did some digging, do you care to respond to what I found?
Ed