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October 28, 2011 in City
‘Dreadful’ budget cuts loom
Gregoire’s tentative list of cuts totals $2 billion
Gov. Chris Gregoire talks about her budget-cutting ideas on Thursday in Olympia.
(Full-size photo)
OLYMPIA – Gov. Chris Gregoire released a list Thursday of possible choices to slash $2 billion from the state budget, more than a fourth of that total from public schools and state colleges and another $380 million from social services programs.
She described the options – tentatively selected from a list of nearly $4 billion in cuts the Legislature could make – as “dreadful.”
“What I’m laying out here really hurts,” she said. “Washingtonians will get a lot less of what they truly need.”
But after cutting some $10.5 billion in projected expenses over the last three years, it’s necessary to cut whole programs, she said: “I’m done with the Pac-Man budgeting approach.”
Liberal groups, which are calling for the state to end some tax exemptions for businesses to cover at least some of the gap between projected revenues and scheduled expenses, quickly denounced an “all-cuts” approach.
Remy Turpin, the executive director of the Washington Budget and Policy Center, a progressive group, called her budget plan a “one-sided, lopsided approach that will do significant damage to the very things that make our state a good place to live, work and do business.”
Mary Lindquist, president of the Washington Education Association, said the cuts to public schools and higher education will force layoffs, crowd classrooms and make college too expensive for more families. “Enough is enough,” she said in a prepared statement.
Gregoire said she has not yet looked at higher taxes or fees because she promised to give the Legislature an “all-cuts” budget. She and her staff will consider possible tax or fee increases before the session starts but have none to propose now.
She’ll make a final supplemental budget plan after the next state revenue forecast, which will be released Nov. 17, but before the special session starts Nov. 28. She wanted legislators to see a list of options, totaling $4 billion worth of possible cuts, and marked the ones she expects to place in her supplemental budget.
Among her tentative choices:
• Social service programs cut nearly $381 million by reducing or eliminating nearly 60 programs, among them subsidized child care, long-term care services, chemical dependency and many economic services.
• Health care services would be cut nearly $333 million, eliminating Basic Health and cutting some 35,000 low-income people off state-subsidized health care, to save $48 million, and the Disability Lifeline medical program, which covers 21,000, to save $110 million.
• Public schools could see a reduction of some $365 million in state funding, including $150 million cut to “levy equalization,” which is designed to assist poorer school districts, and a $137 million cut by increasing class sizes by two students in grades 4 through 12.
The levy equalization cuts would vary among the school districts, depending on their property tax rates. Spokane Public Schools would lose $6.6 million next year under the proposal; Central Valley would lose $4.3 million, East Valley about $950,000 and West Valley about $821,000.
• Colleges and universities would see a $174 million cut, all but $8 million of it as a result of reducing state support by 15 percent.
“Obviously there will be layoffs,” she said.
The list of preferred options includes cuts to the state share of its employees’ health care coverage, which must still be negotiated with its unions. On Wednesday, the executive director of the state’s largest union said they wouldn’t come to the bargaining table until Gregoire brought in state corporations and got them to agree to give up some of their tax exemptions.
“I hope they will reconsider and come to the table,” Gregoire said of the unions, adding she has no authority to collectively bargain with businesses.
Legislators acknowledged that Gregoire had made some difficult, albeit preliminary, choices that they want to study.
“We have few good choices left and we must keep all options on the table,” Senate Majority Leader Lisa Brown, D-Spokane, said in a joint statement with Ed Murray, D-Seattle, the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee.
Sen. Joe Zarelli of Ridgefield, the ranking Republican on the Ways and Means Committee, commended Gregoire for releasing the list of options early. “I agree with the governor when she says government cannot do it all. It will be up to the Legislature to decide what government should and should not be doing, and at what cost to the taxpayers.”
Supermajority for taxes unconstitutional, judge rules 
selkirks on October 28 at 7:03 a.m.
Revenue, revenue, revenue.
DDC on October 28 at 7:12 a.m.
Hard to keep a Trabant on the road, isn’t it?
crimsonandgray on October 28 at 7:23 a.m.
Crazy, the only way out is to create jobs. The loss of educational support will have much larger, and longer term downside than the help it will provide.
another_perspective on October 28 at 7:31 a.m.
She shouldn’t have squandered that $2 Billion dollar tobacco settlement, inflating state employees wages in order to get re-elected.
Why do we have ANY state employee making more than $100K? The fat is caused by our public servants porking down at the trough filled by the tax payers dollars.
johnclarke on October 28 at 7:31 a.m.
Well eventually we can just get rid of all social programs and have Lords and Serfs again.
polistra on October 28 at 7:36 a.m.
Nullify the anti-scientific anti-Darwinian anti-human “Endangered” Species Act within the state. No cost at all, and it would bring back lots of jobs.
empyrius on October 28 at 7:59 a.m.
Tis about time for us the people to take over the farmland, dams, & Microsoft!
It is also time to fire EVERY lawyer on the the public payroll and bar lawyers from Olympia.
In fact, let us simply burn Olympia to the ground and build schools, homeless shelters, and hospitals in its stead . . .
Occupy the energy sector people!
O yea!
westerly on October 28 at 8:01 a.m.
Wisconsin problem solving is the solution. Face it Gregoire, 75 to 80 percent of the billions gov takes in..goes to their employees..nothing left for anything else. If Boeing operated like this, they would go broke and close within a month.
RedCedar on October 28 at 8:10 a.m.
This is an interesting contrast to Idaho where, due to legislative stinginess that is a chronic frustration to people who want the state to provide more funding for all sorts of worthy endeavors, the legislature is now dealing with a very easy budget situation with revenues coming in slightly higher than projected. Washington should by all rights be coming out of the recession in far better condition than Idaho. It has a far more diversified industrial base and denser population centers that are cheaper per head to serve. It has a higher gas tax and sales tax and of course it has the B&O tax which is a tax on the gross income of businesses whether they make a profit or not.
The only thing Idaho has going for it relative to Washington in terms of revenue is its income tax, but of course when the economy slumps, incomes are by definition the first thing to go down. Without getting into a Republican vs Democrat argument or an argument about the merits of various government programs, it’s pretty clear that Idaho survived the recession with much less budgetary trauma than Washington for the simple reason that the Idaho legislature and governor were more stingy and were quicker to honestly cut the budget when revenues looked likely to drop, whereas the Washington legislature and governor squeal like stuck pigs about the horrible cuts they’d have to make, but in the end they cut very little and used every budgeting trick in the book to postpone the day of reckoning.
DDC on October 28 at 8:23 a.m.
2008 revenues: $64.5 Billion (actual, 19.3% of WA GDP)
2011 revenues: $70.4 Billion (estimated. 20.1% of WA GDP)
The sky is falling. Right.
You might want to notice that the reporting here doesn’t state the above numbers and explain that the “shortfall” is based on a assumption of an increase of revenues…normally up to a 7% yearly increase. Now instead of a $6 Billion increase in State revenues, there will only be a increase of say $1-2 Billion.
It’s the same kind of trickery that is employed by the new super-committee which labels a $1.5 Trillion tax increase a “budget cut” over the next 10 years (like they’re really going to apply that $1.5T to the deficit).
The marketing has begun…you’re about to be sold new taxes, and the SR will be deploying it’s selective journalism, as always.
Welcome_Black_Carter on October 28 at 8:33 a.m.
And this is bad news? Most of these programs/wasteful spending should have never been created in the first place! The economic downturn is an opportunity to get rid of as much wasteful spending as possible. I wish the feds would follow suit! Cut, cut, cut…..and don’t let the libtards restart the social programs and ridiculous spending once revenues improve!
READER27 on October 28 at 8:42 a.m.
Gregiore’s Gestapo!
empyrius on October 28 at 8:46 a.m.
If the feds quit waging war against the whole world for just one year there would not be any federal or state debt!
So instead of repossessing grandma’s home and taking medical “coverage” away from our children and poor; why don’t you guys simply quit bombing other peoples’ children.
All I am saying is give peace a chance!
Occupy the energy sector people!
Koom by ya baby!
ManleyPointer on October 28 at 8:54 a.m.
Well, HOPEFULLY the public-sector unions will be willing to negotiate.
RonPaulin2012 on October 28 at 9:00 a.m.
Please read this article:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/17/many-states-celebrate-surpluses-as-congress-strugg/
This article shows that Republican Governor’s matter. Employee unions and government waste is driving this deficit, not reduced revenues. Washington and WASHINGTON both learn to live within their means both in the good times and bad.
This election period, support initiatives and candidates that support limited government and lower business taxes.
Vote for Ron Paul in 2012.
The_Seer on October 28 at 9:09 a.m.
anotherejective: The tobacco settlement funds were statutorily earmarked for salmon recovery. Never let facts get in the way of yoru blind ideology right?
Raise taxes. Period. This idea that raising taxes isn’t even an option is simply stupid, short-term thinking. I know how thiese things work: Once these programs are gone, they aren’t coming back.
In whose best interest is it to creat a huge underclass? The average Jane or a corporate culture? Think about it.
The WEA President is spot on. We are not conceding to another dime in cuts. Get ready for a statewide teacher’s strike and all you parents can keep your brats at home and see how much fun it is to deliver instruction to them.
ManleyPointer on October 28 at 9:10 a.m.
Bust the unions. There. I’ve said it.
kenpojennifer on October 28 at 9:15 a.m.
So what happens to the $6.6 million dollars that the government found from the IRAQI war? Hmmm? Why don’t you hold a gun to the low-income families and pull the trigger Mrs. Gregorie than you wont have to deal with cuts. I’m so sick and tired of taking everything from the low-income families that truely need it and do something much more stupid with the money you save. I have 3 children and many people have more than 3. Washington is soooooo stupid to do this. Why don’t you take the money from the rich and give to the poor (low and middle class people) instead of taking the money from the poor and giving it to the rich. People loose their jobs because of what government is doing right now we need a new governor. You don’t have my vote this time Mrs. Gregorie. Hey haven’t voted for you yet. Its not the peoples choice that you cut funds its the governments. HAVE A HEART! Oh wait you want money and that is why we are in this slump. Its your job to not have a heart. If a single mother makes $2,000 a month she doesn’t get day care when she needs it so she has to quit her job and take care of her child and become homeless because of it. This doesn’t make any sense. What next you going to take welfare away also. So that the single parents out there can’t even afford to raise their kids that they will be in foster care because their parents are homeless. This makes me sick!!!! Then the disabled won’t get any money because your taking that away. So what is the money going to go for then fixing up the roads that don’t need to be fixed. The highways that were fixed the year before and now you have to refix them. Then you want to tax us more. I don’t care what you do but don’t take anything from the low-income families and the disabled and the people who get Social security. Like I said take it away from the people who are rich and don’t have to work. The money to take from them they will make in a week.
Lewis on October 28 at 9:33 a.m.
misjustice i got a chuckle over your idea of firing all lawyers on public payroll are you aware 57% of congress are lawyers?
i agree lets unload all the lawyers.
ManleyPointer on October 28 at 9:36 a.m.
If you’re going to fire all the lawyers, better do it quick before they form a union!!
Dazzeetrader11 on October 28 at 10:01 a.m.
I think it’s about time that we understand this dirty little secret: We’re out of money after years of abusive spending.
This weekend (for the first time in history) our debt surpassed GDP. WOuld somebody please get these liberal spenders gone!?!??! Gregoire won’t recover from her crazy liberal spending. Obama won’t either. The next person will have a tremendous task. Both of these liberal spenders have been disasters for solvency.
Unions need to be dissolved. If it was me, I wouldn’t even talk to them come renewal time. Jobs, not union jobs.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/28/spooky-us-debt-to-surpass-gdp-on-halloween/
empyrius on October 28 at 10:24 a.m.
That would be I Empyrius who wrote to fire all lawyers who are on the public dole whocaresinspokane!
We don’t need any stinking lawyers man!
Truth-finders aye / lawyers nay!
Satan is a lawyer you know! He has represented the likes of tobacco companies, OJ Simpson, numerous SPD cops . . .
The_Seer on October 28 at 10:53 a.m.
dazed: It is an easily refuted lie to claim this is the first time debt has exceeded GDP. The U.S. has run DEFICITS that exceeded GDP and the national debt at one time was three times annual GDP. Quit being a bald faced liar.
Not another dime from teachers. We are done giving back. Have fun teaching your kids.
Hiker on October 28 at 10:56 a.m.
Many Republicans and virtually all Republican legislators rail against state spending while at the same time benefiting from it. Data from the OFM shows that every county in Eastern Washington except for Kittitas, all of whom either lean or vote strongly Republican, is subsidized by the state.
By subsidized, I mean it receives more in state spending than in pays in state taxes. Yakima, Stevens, and Lincoln, and Adams counties receive twice what they pay in taxes. Ferry County gets three times as much. Spokane County receives $1.35 for every dollar it pays in taxes. In addition to direct subsidies, farmers, unlike every other business don’t pay B&O tax.
The entire state budget shortfall could be eliminated by cutting subsidies to Eastern Washington. Is this how the state should balance the budget? Would our state be better off overall if it did?
gmorton on October 28 at 10:58 a.m.
The_Seer wrote,
“Once these programs are gone, they aren’t coming back.”
Ah … we can only hope.
“In whose best interest is it to creat a huge underclass?”
The best interest of every productive person impoverished by the State in its inane and futile attempts to impose egalitarianism.
liberal_in_right_wing_land on October 28 at 11:00 a.m.
Of course she wont propose new taxes on giant corporations or the rich in Washington…..she will be out of a job here soon and she needs a new high paying corporate lobbying job, she cannot piss of her future employers by raising their taxes right now. However, she will never run for another office in Washington so she doesn’t care if she pisses off the millions of middle class and poor in Washington.
Gotta love our horribly corrupt government on BOTH sides of the political fence.
Scoutster on October 28 at 11:03 a.m.
Seer…
The unions have an image problem. Sorry you don’t see that.
It is in their long-term interests to be unlike the intransigent right and compromise and give something up. The increase in corp taxes is irrelevant and shouldn’t be linked to public employee wages (does that really sound like a good idea?).
As a non-profit contractor who works with vulnerable people and has seen our Medicaid funding erode considerably over the years, please explain to me why I will have to cut a $9.00/hr, no benefits worker’s wages so public employees don’t have to suffer.
I know they have already given some up. So have we. So what?
gmorton on October 28 at 11:06 a.m.
kenpojennifer wrote,
“I have 3 children and many people have more than 3.”
Whose fault is that? Yours, or your neighbors’? How did your fellow citizens become responsible for your reproductive decisions?
“Why don’t you take the money from the rich and give to the poor (low and middle class people) instead of taking the money from the poor and giving it to the rich.”
Ah – free luncherism in all its sordid glory. Perhaps because the money being “taken” from “the poor” was not theirs to begin with. It was taken from those who earned it and handed over to others who did not.
Perhaps you should cease worrying about from whom you can take money and begin thinking about how to earn some of your own.
Orange on October 28 at 11:22 a.m.
seer, check your typo’s. As I remember, you call people idiots for such things.
ManleyPointer on October 28 at 11:34 a.m.
Intransigent or principled? Depends on your point of view, I guess.
gmorton on October 28 at 11:39 a.m.
The budget document mentioned in the sidebar link above is missing. It is here:
http://www.ofm.wa.gov/reductions/alternatives/all_budget_alternatives.pdf
johnclarke on October 28 at 11:54 a.m.
Who said idiot ? I missed it.
Here are the numbers if anyone is interested.
http://www.ofm.wa.gov/budget11/summary/NLtable01.pdf
http://www.ofm.wa.gov/budget11/summary/nltable02.pdf
I find myself generally agreeing with many of the comments above, yes the unions have an image problem, yes people should not have children they cannot afford to raise with a proper standard of living, yes people should be responsible.
However, with our nation’s wealth, we can help less fortunate people. I had the opportunity to visit a state contract funded business yesterday, one I’ve mentioned before. They specialize in helping people get jobs that face challenges, like they are disabled, they have been on welfare too long or maybe they are ex-convicts. One of the clients I visited with is wheelchair bound with MS, she is obviously very bright but can’t speak that well and has limited use of her arms. She wants to work. In fact, I got the impression that it’s her reason for going on every day.She is training to get a job. Her mother shoulders the full time care for this young lady, but obviously without state assistance she would not be able to afford it. So, heartless bastards - what do we do with people that simply can’t live without our help? What about autistics, people with Down’s or the guy that made some mistakes and wants to get a job? Stop helping? Cut these programs because these people did not earn enough? Never let less fortunate people get a hand up?
I wish I could assign each one of you folks in the “free lunch” crowd a disabled child, or make you job shadow this guy with autism I met. I sense if asked, they would do anything in their power to help you. Yes I know, this is all very heart warming. I’m just trying to say that just because people need help doesn’t mean they are sponges.
gmorton on October 28 at 12:03 p.m.
johnclarke wrote,
“So, heartless bastards - what do we do with people that simply can’t live without our help?”
Help them, John. That means *you* help them, not force someone else to do so at State gunpoint.
johnclarke on October 28 at 12:12 p.m.
Thanks for making my point, gmorton and yes I was refering to you specifically. Certain things are simply too important to be left to people like you. Yes, you can go help your favorite charity but gee what if MS ain’t your thing?
I have no faith in your type to help anyone. By your thinking, if you had a child with a severe disability they you are totally responsible for the cost. I say, try it. You quit your job to care for a disabled person 24x7 and then you figure out how to pay for it, including health care costs.
I’m sure you send twenty bucks a month to some charity and I hope it helps you sleep at night.
The_Seer on October 28 at 12:20 p.m.
jc: gmorton is a confessed eugenics believer. He’d simply have the child’s life terminated after the disorder was discovered. According to his thinking if we did that often enough those genetic disorders would disappear from our genetic material. He is also a monstrous hypocrite. He has benefited from sending his children to public school, subsidized by the childless, he has benefited from the mortgage interest deduction, a free lunch partially provided by those who don’t own property and many other instances of government largesse.
Image, schimage… Teachers across the state have been “giving back” for the last three budgets. We are done. What have corporations been asked to sacrifice? Anything?
johnclarke on October 28 at 12:28 p.m.
Yeah, I don’t really know the details of what the unions have given up and will take your word for it. “Truth” and “image” don’t seem to go hand in hand.
gmorton on October 28 at 12:32 p.m.
johnclarke wrote,
“I have no faith in your type to help anyone.”
You shouldn’t. What other people do is none of your business. You only need faith in yourself to help them, which you may do to whatever extent you wish.
“By your thinking, if you had a child with a severe disability they you are totally responsible for the cost.”
Correct.
gmorton on October 28 at 12:40 p.m.
The_Seer wrote,
“jc: gmorton is a confessed eugenics believer.”
Really? That’s news to me. Could you cite that “confession”?
“He has benefited from sending his children to public school, subsidized by the childless . . .”
Blew it again, Seer. I’ve never sent a child of mine to a public school. I’ve paid plenty of taxes to support them, though.
” … he has benefited from the mortgage interest deduction, a free lunch partially provided by those who don’t own property and many other instances of government largesse.”
Everyone benefits from the mortgage interest deduction, including those who rent. I agree it should be abolished, however, since like all other politically-driven deductions it distorts the market.
0 for 3 on that one, Seer.
johnclarke on October 28 at 12:47 p.m.
Taking up a collection to get Gmorton a ticket to Somalia. Anyone feeling charitible ? I propose that America would be better off without him, and anyone like him.
Scoutster on October 28 at 12:47 p.m.
Seer..
Still don’t know what I should say to a worker who makes just over $9.00 as I take them down to the minimum, with no increases, no benefits, and no COLA.
“Well, at least the teachers didn’t have to give anything back. At least you can feel good about that!”
It’s not us and them…it’s only us and us. You and gmorton seem to be cut from different sides of the same cloth.
Pigrobin on October 28 at 1:27 p.m.
johnclarke, you go to Somalia first and let us know the temperature of the water. Or just go to Kenya or the waters of the Horn of Africa and you’ll still probably end up in Somalia via the nice people who grab westerners for their supposed value. BTW, don’t expect the U S of A to pay a dime to get you back.
johnclarke on October 28 at 1:41 p.m.
thanks pal, I’ve already had my tour of far off lands while in service to Uncle Sugar, and for the record he did pay to get me back. Granted, not first class seats but I walked away from the landing(s).
wobble506 on October 28 at 1:48 p.m.
Seer -
Nice imagery for a teacher. Calling kids Brats. Must love your profession. You’ll not see any of my children in public schools because of the preponderance of teachers with just that attitude. Teachers today are wimps. I remember being in classes with 30-35 kids, and one teacher. No aides. And we all learned. What’s your excuse? Maybe its because your attitude towards children sucks, and its a lower priority then protecting your benefits.
My kids are already at home, receiving their instruction in a loving and supporting environment.
The real criminals here are the gov types, who have been throwing money hand over fist to needy people to solve problems for decades. Now that we have spent ourselves into oblivion, and people now think that this money is their “right”, and are totally dependent on handouts, it has to go away. The real shame and blame is on the government types for making people dependent on money that is not theirs, and never was.
And even worse are the clowns that paint me as inhuman, unthinking, uncaring because we realize the status quo can’t go on. You can’t continue to spend money that is not there.
The Governer is guilty of causing this, as she deliberately targets programs designed to raise the ire of the people. Target the disadvantaged, the children, and the education and public safety folks, because THEY KNOW this will raise outrage and everyone will play this out in public news and papers. Why do they ALWAYS target teachers, firefighters and police (other than the fact that they cost us an arm and a leg with their union jobs & outrageous benefits? ) it will raise the outrage factor. If she was serious, I’m sure there are many other programs she could cut that would raise not be sorely missed. This is a liberal tactic to justify not cutting the budget but only raising taxes, which is all they ever really want to do. And blame it all on the rich. Right.
.
Bruce (aka thatoneguy) on October 28 at 2:01 p.m.
A chart that helps to explain:
http://www.thestranger.com/images/blogimages/2011/10/27/1319763506-2011_cuts_vs._tax_breaks_chart.jpg
Auko on October 28 at 2:02 p.m.
Why is it wrong to have the belief that people should be responsible for their own lives? People should not expect the “government” to take care of them. If someone decides to make bad choices in their life, they should have to deal with the consequences.
Welcome_Black_Carter on October 28 at 2:27 p.m.
Auko, nothing is wrong with personal responsibility unless you are a leftist libtard that thinks the gov should pay for you and your bad decisions! Sickening to think that there are so many libs that think the government should pay for your bad decisions….
I for one am glad that social programs are getting cut…FINALLY! Been a long time coming. Life is what you make it. There are and will always be people with “bad luck.” Funny how succesful people seem to always have such good luck overall in life….maybe it has something to do with quality decisions and personal responsibility.
johnclarke on October 28 at 2:31 p.m.
RonPaulin2012 on October 28 at 9:00 a.m.
Please read this article:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/17/many-states-celebrate-surpluses-as-congress-strugg/
This article shows that Republican Governor’s matter. Employee unions and government waste is driving this deficit, not reduced revenues. Washington and WASHINGTON both learn to live within their means both in the good times and bad.
“The biggest drivers of surpluses are higher-than-expected tax collections.”
Um, your posted story seems to think that collecting more tax dollars seems to work out pretty good, oh and the Federal Stimulus dollars that all those states happily gobbled up. Odd that the story does not mention the word “union” once. Weird.
ManleyPointer on October 28 at 2:50 p.m.
John, I agree with you that society (of which I take pride in being a member) has a responsibility to care for those who cannot care for themselves. However, let’s not confuse “society” with “government.” And let’s be careful about who gets put into the “unable to care for themselves” demographic, and be sure we don’t sweep up a bunch of “too lazy to care for themselves” folks along with them.
The_Seer on October 28 at 2:51 p.m.
Auko: Great. No more subsidies to biz or corps then either.
johnclarke on October 28 at 3:08 p.m.
so Manley, we as a country find that often “society” is either incapable or unwilling to do certain things. I would offer a few examples but I think you know this. Some government programs are very well run. I don’t know where this “gubmint” is the enemy BS comes from. Mostly from hypocrite nutters I think.
Also, “government” folks are just like you and me with a slightly better pension program. They are good people. I liked working with them. Politicians however are a different breed. You will find no argument from me that the political and election system is totally rotten. Even the finest public servants are often swallowed by the system. There are exceptions but until they make it to the Oval with majorities in both houses (even then the system is pretty pathetic) then I would not hope for huge change. Ralph Nadar laid out a pretty impressive plan for election reform in an interview once, I think for Playboy. Yeah, until there is a sea change then you get nutbags like Bachman (insert Democrat names) actually running for the highest office in the land.
mikeln on October 28 at 3:38 p.m.
You can blame the poor all you want, they are not the real problem here. What about the billion boeing got for the camera fence they were building? I saw pictures of that venture, looked like maybe a couple of hundred thousand spent on equipment and the rest, well you can bet it went to a handfull of people for no service or product delivered. This kind of thing goes on in our hand wash hand government all the time while they vilify the people with little or no voice. This is what the people should be griping about, not child care support for someone with a job that pays minimum with no benifits.
ManleyPointer on October 28 at 3:42 p.m.
I think our system as it currently operates invites dependence on the government. I think this is a bad thing, a distortion of the proper role of the government. I do agree with you, John, that there are a lot of good people in government, but there is also a tremendous amount of dead wood, and the whole system groans beneath the weight of an enormously bloated, self-serving bureaucracy. So between the bureaucrats and the teat-sucklers, good intentions end up being just that: intentions.
ManleyPointer on October 28 at 3:53 p.m.
Oh, mikeln. This is the problem with trying to have a rational discussion. People see “pictures” of something, and “it looked like maybe” it cost a couple hundred thousand, so obviously the rest of the BILLION DOLLARS went to line someone’s pocket. And people think the Right are the conspiracy theorists? Hey, novus ordo seclorum, baby.
And in the meantime, all the people who are suckling at the government teat are single mothers working five jobs to feed their children, all of whom look like the little girl in the Les Miserables poster. None of them are four-hundred pound potheads sitting in their lazy-boys watching Tron and expending their last dozen brain cells trying to figure out how to use their Quest cards to buy ten quarts of Old English 800 and a case of Cheetos.
Dazzeetrader11 on October 28 at 4:00 p.m.
Seer you sissy NEA WEA teacher union lover ( since you’r e one of em)…just afraid your wings might be clipped a little bit. Tough…they should be. And you usually lie to support your arguments. Let’s see the data. Such abuse over the years. Bums who generate low success rates for the students and yet asking for more money from US annually.
Same with the other “public” employees. Milked the system until it’s broken as with come communist situations.
Time for you boys and girls to go make something. Until then though, quit sucking. We’re out of money and we spent it on YOU and got little back. Obstruction to even having the dullard teachers looked at in terms of performance standards.
Well, buck up son. The party’s over for you. Jobs? yes! Just not expensive Union jobs. Oh and point out the 3 times the debt exceeded the GDP. I’d like to see them….moreso since you lie to make an argument more than half the time.
mikeln on October 28 at 4:12 p.m.
For those of you who believe a corporate ran government is going to tell you the truth, good luck with that. There is a small government teat for those who do need help and a very large government teat for those who need nothing but more government money. MP, the government pulled the plug on boeings little deal, citing waste, translation, theft, of government money. I know people that need help and can’t get it because people believe they are the problem. For those of you who believe that all the people that need help are overwieght potheads drinking whaterver old english 800 is, keep it up, you will be in the next group corporate decides to vilify.
johnclarke on October 28 at 4:15 p.m.
that there are a lot of good people in government, but there is also a tremendous amount of dead wood, and the whole system groans beneath the weight of an enormously bloated, self-serving bureaucracy
Agreed. The government is the largest employer in the US, not counting the military and post office. In fact, I could go into the number of gov’t agencies tasked with Homeland Security, and the tremendous expansion of the complex after 9/11 - oddly at the direction of a “conservative”. Wow, come to think of it - Reagan did exactly the same thing, meaning massively expanding government. Geez, I wish someone would find a candidate that really is a conservative in favor of smaller government. Any ideas ?
ManleyPointer on October 28 at 4:30 p.m.
I don’t know of any candidate of either party who is truly conservative and in favor of smaller government. Ron Paul? I think that anyone who truly does advocate smaller government is going to get squished like a bug by the entrenched interests. Or is it squashed? In either case, we are doomed.
Bruce (aka thatoneguy) on October 28 at 5:17 p.m.
Well, as a certain poster on the S-R threads might say, we all made the choice to live in Washington and we (i.e. whoever is unhappy with the governor, the budget, etc.) all need to accept the consequences of our decision. It’s all about good and bad choices.
;-)
Pigrobin on October 28 at 5:31 p.m.
Well said Bruce. And if you don’t like our state, then it’s a short move over to Idaho where their budget is fine. I for one, will maintain my residence in the Evergreen State and deal with the cards I have.
The_Seer on October 28 at 5:44 p.m.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Federal_Debt.png
I made a mistake. My point was to insist the national debt has exceeded annual GDP at other points in U.S. history. Most households owe more than they make in a year. Most people would never own homes, cars, college degrees if they didn’t owe more than they make in a year.
Let me know when investors stop buying U.S. Bonds. Lately they’ve been running to them.
I find it more than interesting that the so-called conservative areas, anti “free lunch” crowd are the most voracious suckers of the public teat in relation to what they actually pay in state taxes. What a bunch of free loaders.
http://depts.washington.edu/geog/2011/02/revenueexpenditure-disparities-by-county-in-washington-state/
Dazzeetrader11 on October 28 at 6:00 p.m.
Mistakes accepted. Fabrications NOT.
Pigrobin on October 28 at 6:04 p.m.
Thanks Seer, and there are more observations to be made from that graphic. Only 5 counties provide more than they take, the rest are part of the “free lunch” crowd as you say. The other thing to consider is the population in each county. And the bottom line is those more populous counties (the providers) by and large determine the elected state officials, the make up of our state’s representation which determines budget allocations.
gmorton on October 28 at 6:18 p.m.
Scoutster wrote,
“Still don’t know what I should say to a worker who makes just over $9.00 as I take them down to the minimum, with no increases, no benefits, and no COLA.”
You should advise him to improve his skills and get a better job.
gmorton on October 28 at 6:23 p.m.
The_Seer wrote,
“No more subsidies to biz or corps then either.”
Right on that one, Seer.
gmorton on October 28 at 6:27 p.m.
johnclarke worte,
“I wish someone would find a candidate that really is a conservative in favor of smaller government. Any ideas?”
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
johnclarke on October 28 at 6:32 p.m.
Oh, suck it gmorton.
Idaho’s budget is “fine” thanks to two things. Increased tax revenues higher than they planned for, and the stimulus money they flooded into pay State salaries. (gosh, could there be a relationship?) Besides, Idaho lives off the “gubmint” just like Washington State lives off of King County.
I’m sure the Republicans in these states that are climbing out of the GOP recession are going to give themselves lots of pats on the back for being so fiscally responsible and solving these big complicated problems. Just do me one favor and subtract all the Federal stimulus gravy from the balance sheets and then get back to me.
I say it again for the slow folks. When everyone stops borrowing and spending, someone has to step in. The stimulus kept the big recession wolf at bay, and another one would push the country back into better time, but see that would get Obama easily reelected and no one wants that.
Orphan on October 28 at 6:34 p.m.
Geeeze gmorton what are you thinking that would require personal responsibilty, LOL
gmorton on October 28 at 6:34 p.m.
The_Seer wrote,
“Most households owe more than they make in a year. Most people would never own homes, cars, college degrees if they didn’t owe more than they make in a year.”
That comparison is apples/oranges and utterly irrelevant. You have to compare *government revenues* with *government debt* to draw that parallel. You cannot compare national income or GDP with government debt. The national income or GDP does not belong to the government.
Pigrobin on October 28 at 7:15 p.m.
“just like Washington State lives off of King County”
Do you mean the top 1% of King County or are you saying its an equally shared giving from the kind folks living and giving in King County.
Lewis on October 28 at 7:17 p.m.
the entitlement programs have done nothing but give people a fat gut and a easy chair.
The kids are supposed to take care of mom and dad, retarded kids are cared for by the family. Many that would normally die are saved only to live a non life kept alive by state funded medical treatments.
during the depression there was no parachute. whole families lived in a 1 room shack or the family car. Dad jumped off the building thinking he had disgraced his self and the family.
america is lazy most folks think the government owes them something before they get off the sofa and try themselves.
SSI send me back the money i have paid and we will be even, also stop taking it out of my pay checks.
I have a buddy who works at DSHS he told me just for the hell of it come down to the food stamp office and see who goes there. There were 2 old ladies and a man my age the rest were unwed mothers with loser boyfriend tattoos all over pants down to their knees, the other group is immigrants with lot so kids. I happened to be going out as a kenya couple with two kids were coming out too, I watched as they climbed into a brand new Chrysler 300 wagon. I just shook my head as i climbed into my 24 year old dodge.
DDC on October 28 at 7:47 p.m.
Our collective governments (state and federal) are now spending 46% of GDP.
The debt numbers are not even in the ballpark. Debt and unfunded obligations for the Federal Government total well over $100 Trillion, or $303,000.00 for every man, woman and child (I’ll bet you didn’t know that you owed more in the name of your Government than you probably owe on your house).
And gmorton, what do you tell that employee making minimum wage with no benefits? Show her/him your aggregate sales numbers over the last 5 years and tell him/her to figure out a way to make those numbers go UP….and if they do, they get 20% of the gross increase (depending on your costs, of course)…or….they can go to the bank, get a loan, mortgage their belongings, risk their livelihood (like most entrepreneurs) and become your competition. Then they can keep all of the money for themselves…until the agent of the Government Class comes knocking.
reservedparking on October 28 at 7:49 p.m.
And the race to the bottom continues…
All these pay cuts and pension reforms you all spout off about are a drop in the bucket. None of them will change a thing, at least in the short term. So stop bashing the unions, etc. - they’re a good part of the reason that many of the rest of you have 40-hour weeks, a couple days a week off, and at least some benefits available.
I swear it seems that some of you won’t be happy until all of us (you whiners included) are at minimum wage, living in shacks, and living on Top Ramen.
Bruce (aka thatoneguy) on October 28 at 8:20 p.m.
No, you see reservedparking — 40-hour / 5-day work weeks have made us SOFT. Knowing that we will not starve and/or freeze by working only 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, has made us spoiled whiny babies. We need to get rid of all unions and all the wage guarantees, workplace regulations, health benefits and retirement contributions that they have foisted onto an unwilling public. Working for wages that can be reduced at any moment, at jobs we can be fired from for no reason, with no expectation of help from any quarter if we are sick or injured, will restore the toughness of the American character.
ManleyPointer on October 28 at 8:27 p.m.
It’s not a zero-sum game, folks. Wealth can be created, so that no one needs to live in a shack (unless they want to).
reservedparking on October 28 at 9:00 p.m.
Hey, Bruce - you can move to some third-world country with working conditions like that. I’ll stay here, thank you.
Bruce (aka thatoneguy) on October 28 at 9:19 p.m.
reserved — oh, I’m not going anywhere either. But it is possible that the 3rd world is coming to us.
Lewis on October 28 at 11:30 p.m.
i was talking to a canadian couple the other day they think the usa is headed for 3rd world status.
Scoutster on October 29 at 5:57 a.m.
gmorton wrote:
“Still don’t know what I should say to a worker who makes just over $9.00 as I take them down to the minimum, with no increases, no benefits, and no COLA.”
You should advise him to improve his skills and get a better job.
No, my little friend, you don’t understand.
YOU are the employer. YOU are paying these wages for these services for the most vulnerable people served in the state. The folks we serve would fit the most conservative person’s versions of the worthy poor. They are on the govt dole and they always will be because they HAVE to be or they will die. And YOU pay people less than a living wage to care for them, and are proud of that. Sure, the one’s working TODAY can get more skills, but then tomorrow there is still the job to be done. And vulnerable people will still need to be served.
You sanctimony eventually runs out, you see. Eventually, YOU have to take some responsibility for these most vulnerable people and the quality of the care they get. Man up, or admit that you think eugenics is a good plan.
gmorton on October 29 at 12:36 p.m.
DDC wrote,
“Our collective governments (state and federal) are now spending 46% of GDP.”
Yes. And that doesn’t include the $1.75 trillion/year cost of complying with federal regulations. Or the comparable costs of state and local edicts.
And the free lunchers wonder why businesses are off-shoring.
Good advice for that worker, DDC.
gmorton on October 29 at 12:45 p.m.
Scoutster wrote,
“They are on the govt dole and they always will be because they HAVE to be or they will die.”
No, Scoutster. People have been taking care of their children, their sick, their old, and their helpless for about 3 million years, without the aid of gummint. Gummint merely allows you to foist that responsibility onto someone else.
Scoutster on October 29 at 5:03 p.m.
OK…good, gmorton….we are making real progress now.
So, the policy of the state should be to refuse to serve vulnerable persons altogether? Is it your belief that services for abandoned babies, persons with severe disabilities and no family support, the mentally ill, should just end?
Would that be correct?
If so, then I can see how you would feel the entire discussion around services to disabled/vulnerable would be irrelevant. I appreciate your point of view. I just wish more conservatives would be so open about such things instead of pretending to care about the vulnerable, then starving the services (like McMorris Rodgers does, for example).
gmorton on October 29 at 7:02 p.m.
Scoutster wrote,
“So, the policy of the state should be to refuse to serve vulnerable persons altogether?”
Yes. The state should not be in that business. It is the responsibility of family, friends, churches, and charities.
Scoutster on October 30 at 7:38 a.m.
Okeydokey…thanks.
The_Seer on October 30 at 9:22 a.m.
As it goes in Washington state, it goes across the nation
http://gumption.posterous.com/disproportionate-ratios-between-red-and-blue
I’d be happy to kick the red states off the dole. Let them start paying their own way and we’ll see them running back to Uncle Sugar’s arms.
gmorton: Yep, I said eugenics. Your posts prove it.
DDC on October 31 at 12:02 a.m.
Good point g-m. The productivity that is lost in regulatory compliance is significant. Although I believe there’s a place for it in proper measure and circumstance.
gotcha on November 21 at 11:34 a.m.
I vote for no new taxes until all the Unions are out of the Public Sector. Wages, Benifits, and Pension plans must be reasonable. I have never seen a Public Sector employee work with any urgency and I am sick of the Unions buying the corrupt Progressive goverment that has been runing this state. Why people would want to pay dues to a Union so they can work for their own goverment makes little sense unless it is for greed. Starve the greed out of our state. There is no other way.
Jethro_toll on November 21 at 11:46 a.m.
She shouldn’t have squandered that $2 Billion dollar tobacco settlement, inflating state employees wages in order to get re-elected.
Why do we have ANY state employee making more than $100K? The fat is caused by our public servants porking down at the trough filled by the tax payers dollars.
Jethro_toll on November 21 at 11:46 a.m.
She shouldn’t have squandered that $2 Billion dollar tobacco settlement, inflating state employees wages in order to get re-elected.
Why do we have ANY state employee making more than $100K? The fat is caused by our public servants porking down at the trough filled by the tax payers dollars.
gotcha on December 01 at 1:26 p.m.
This is all about raising money to keep feeding the Union Public Sector employees. So lets do this, since we are becoming a society of low morals. We can close all the prisons. Get all the inmates signed up for Union jobs rather than keeping them in jail they can pay society for their crimes and also pay Union dues. Example: Murder $498.00 per month for 10 years. Rape $320.00 per month for 8 years etc. This system will work out great for mindless money grabing Union Progressives.. Screw any morals…. Go for the $$$$$$….. Thats all these thieves holding state offices can think of is taking care of their Union benafactors.
richardch on April 29 at 8:31 p.m.
Rossi was right.