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February 10, 2012 in News, City
Judge grants Thompson request to interview witness
A federal judge today granted a request by the attorney for former Spokane Police Officer Karl F. Thompson Jr. to interview a government expert witness who claims that federal prosecutors mischaracterized his expected testimony.
The move further delays the sentencing of Thompson, who was convicted Nov. 3 of using excessive force and lying to cover up his actions during the March 18, 2006, confrontation with Otto Zehm, who died two days later.
Thompson, 64, currently faces a range of 27 to 33 months in federal prison, although defense attorney Carl Oreskovich has asked Van Sickle in court records to reduce that range even further because he claims Thompson has accepted responsibility for his actions.
Thompson’s sentencing was originally set for Jan. 27, but Van Sickle postponed that hearing indefinitely after receiving a letter from video forensics expert Grant Fredericks, who claimed that federal prosecutors left out information in their summaries to defense that would have helped Thompson.
“We are here to pursue what appear to be very serious Brady violations brought up by the government’s own witness,” Oreskovich said. “These are circumstances … I have not seen in a 30-year legal career. I think there are issues raised regarding Mr. Thompson’s due process rights.”
Oreskovich referred to case law that requires prosecutors to turn over any evidence that may help defendants defend their cases.
However, Assistant U.S. Attorney Timothy Durkin told Van Sickle that Fredericks previously had been hired by Assistant City Attorney Rocky Treppiedi and had given the city exactly the same information – that the video does not show Thompson striking Zehm with a baton for the first minute and 13 seconds of the confrontation – that he now says was withheld from defense.
“Rocky Treppiedi had several interactions with Mr. Fredericks,” Durkin said. “And, he was on their witness list as well. All of these suggestions and inuendos and claims that there are serious violations, the United States strongly contests.”
For more than a year before the trial, Durkin noted in court records that Fredericks had changed his testimony that he provided to the city and was prepared to testify that the video actually did show Thompson striking Zehm with a baton early in the confrontation.
Thompson confirmed in his initial interview with investigators what the video appears to show – which is contrary to Fredericks’ analysis – that he struck Zehm with a baton almost immediately after confronting the 36-year-old mentally-ill Zehm. Thompson later testified to the same thing at trial.
While Fredericks was listed as a witness for both sides, he was not called during the four-week trial in Yakima.
Instead, Oreskovich called a different expert, Michael Schott, who testified essentially to the same thing Fredericks initially told the city – that because the video only recorded just over three frames per second that the video does not technically show the first few baton strikes.
Despite that testimony and appearing at the trial in person for expected testimony, attorneys made no mention during the trial that Fredericks had any concerns with Durkin’s earlier written summaries of his expected testimony. The letter Fredericks wrote to Judge Van Sickle came a month after the conviction and about two months prior to Thompson’s scheduled sentencing.
“I’m concerned about this matter,” Van Sickle said. “I simply feel that given the statement made by Mr. Fredericks and the information provided, that there should be an opportunity to interview Mr. Fredericks with a protected order and that there also be a videotaped deposition.”
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misjustice on February 10 at 12:23 p.m.
“I’m concerned about this matter,” Van Sickle said…blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and furthermore, and too also, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah…..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
brianrbreen on February 10 at 12:23 p.m.
Good call…play it safe…eliminate the prosecutorial misconduct element of an appeal. Just wish we got to see the video dep.
WillyPeter on February 10 at 12:25 p.m.
Well, gang, I’m afraid “the fix is in”…..
greenlibertarian on February 10 at 12:32 p.m.
Grant Fredericks is a complete flake who somehow has maintained a reasonable reputation.
Wild card here.
brianrbreen on February 10 at 12:38 p.m.
@misjustice
CO wanted an Ex parte interview. Didn’t get it. Now both sides get a shot at Fredericks, in a deposition. Judge Van Sickle reviews all the video deposition and the arguments and decides whether the DOJ were bad or not. If he decides they were not bad, on to sentencing and he has strongly considered the issue of prosecutorial misconduct from an appeals standpoint. If he rules the DOJ was bad could be a new trial.
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 10 at 12:41 p.m.
Nicely said MisJ. I concur.
Shelala on February 10 at 12:42 p.m.
I agree with Brian. It is important to fill in and remove any possible hole that could could be an issue during an appeal attempt. It would be a non issue if Rocco hadn’t mucked the initial investigation in the first place. The interview will be protected and taped. I’ll bet the wheels of justice would turn a lot faster if Thompson were locked up pending sentencing, like most convicted felons.
EthicsinLE on February 10 at 12:48 p.m.
If the video was inappropriately presented to exclude the first 1 min. 13 Sec., this is a major game changer. I believe the judge has been extremely fair to all sides and cautious. This would reduce any likelihood of a overturned convition. The video witness must be very well qualified and respected if the Federal government used him even after the city did on the same case.
lewis8457 on February 10 at 1:03 p.m.
for gods sake how many more burps will we see before Thompson gets sentenced this would never happen if this guy wasn’t a ex cop.
if the Zehms are smart they will say no mediation until this circus is over and Thompson is in a cell. Time for them to play hard ball too.
he was convicted 3 months ago with no sentence date in site, i suppose this new waste of resources will take another 3 month to schedule.
in the mean time his lawyer is sucking off the taxpayers for a cop who lied about beating a man into a coma where the heck is the justice in all this, opps i forgot the cops are above justice.
Zehm family demand no mediation until the SOB is locked away in a cell.
??Riddler?? on February 10 at 1:06 p.m.
?? if you were ever unfortunate enough to be caught with a smoking gun and a dead body, who ya gonna call ??
?? Can you do better than C.O. ??
lewis8457 on February 10 at 1:07 p.m.
i wonder how many times Van Sickle has been out to dinner at Thompsons house?
Shelala on February 10 at 1:07 p.m.
What’s really sad here IMO, is the fact Otto died needlessly has been forgotten in the legal wrangling, He was just an innocent citizen looking forward to cashing his paycheck and enjoying a pop and candy bar before his brief encounter with Thompson. Within minutes, he was on a stretcher dying….and the legal system is spending thousand upon thousands of dollars protecting Thompson’s rights????? I hope the DOJ take a minute to realize that they speak for a silenced victim and all those like him.
EthicsinLE on February 10 at 1:08 p.m.
Lewis, mediation is a good thing in this case and will result is a faster conclusion. If they don’t come to agreement in mediation, they can proceed to trial. As I understand it, Mr. Zehms mother is elderly and she does not need the stress and emotional trauma of a drawn out trial. Frankly, how the zehm family chooses to proceed is their business, not yours.
brianrbreen on February 10 at 1:15 p.m.
@Ethics
This isn’t about excluding video evidence at trial; it is about the way Fredericks says his probable testimony was portrayed in a DOJ proffer.
The DOJ did not use him at trial; they used their own people backed by other experts. The defense didn’t make a move to use him pre-trial either; if they really wanted him they probably could have argued the contract (confidentially) agreement way prior to trial. They used someone who said primarily the same thing Fredericks did.
Pure speculation on my part, but I would guess that the DOJ deep down would like to have a shot at Mr. Fredericks, which they will now get, and I’m sure he will bring his own attorney to the deposition to protect his interests. I’m sure the DOJ has a lot of questions for Mr. Fredericks…. as I’m sure the defense has.
The sad thing about this article is that CO is now in a position to say “ “These are circumstances … I have not seen in a 30-year legal career.” instead of the old standard for less experienced lawyers “In all my legal career I have never seen anything like this.” Either he is really getting old or I am, I can’t believe it has been 30 years.
lewis8457 on February 10 at 1:17 p.m.
ethics it is the business of every person in this city we have endured this case for 5 years one bump after another while if this was a average guy he would have had 5 years in prison under his belt.
none of your business telling me what to do. unless your the cop on the 505 page that calls himself god in that case i am a atheist.
NO Mediation till Karl the Klubber is in prison. period!
brianrbreen on February 10 at 1:19 p.m.
@??Riddler??
I doubt the “inadequate assistance of Counsel” appeal element will fly.
SMARTGUY on February 10 at 1:21 p.m.
Slap his wrist, let him go, and rehire him already, everyone knows that whats going to happen anyway. What a joke our justice system has become.
lewis8457 on February 10 at 1:22 p.m.
EthicsinLE i am surprised you even care about Mrs. Zehm none of you seemed to all those years of lying and covering up but now you care about her. Saluting her sons killer in a court of law like bunch of Nazi’s? Now you care, why cause you have something else up your sleeves?
I cant help but wonder why now van sickle says OK one day after it is reported the Zehms will go into mediation, makes me think the city and Van Sickle have a plan of screwing the Zehms over some more.
EthicsinLE cares what a lark LMO
lewis8457 on February 10 at 1:25 p.m.
smartguy i believe you are right somehow Karl wont get any time and will be a new DARE officer telling our kids lying is bad, what a farce, and a slap in the face to all of us.
Ron_the_Cop on February 10 at 1:27 p.m.
IMO a much ado about nothing. I agree with Brian and Shelala that Judge Van Sickle is being very careful and just wants to handle this issue now rather than have it come up on appeal.
EthicsinLE,
No part of the video as far as I know was excluded. What is at issue is the interpretation of the first few seconds as former Ofc. Thompson made contact with Zehm. Fredericks says he can’t say baton strikes were made.
However there is direct testimony from witnesses and even Thompson himself that he did deliver two or three quick strikes to Zehm.
In my reading of AUSA Durkin’s replies on this point Fredericks’ opinion IMO was disclosed to the defense and there wasn’t anything being intentionally withheld. Fredericks was on both witness lists and CO could have called him at any time. CO called another video expert that in as much testified to the same thing that Frdericks would have testified to.
The prosecution did call a human factors expert (AKA ergonomist), Dr. Gill, who from body movement of Thompson concluded baton strikes did occur from his analysis of the still frames from the video.
I was wondering whether Judge Van Sickle would allow the prosecution to be in attendance when Fredericks is interviewed. Brian seems to know that the prosecution will be allowed into this deposition and I assume will be allowed to cross Fredericks. Fredericks may be concerned his opinion did not reach the defense but from my reads of Durkin’s filings this was not the case. If Fredericks’ non testimony was the sole evidence for the initial baton strikes then I’m sure either and or both the prosecution and the defense would have called him.
IMO the issue of releasing Fredericks from his confidentiality agreement has very little to do with this point re the baton strikes but with his release of privileged work product to Treppiedi et al if the feds are continuing their criminal investigation of the Zehm death to include any others that were complicit and or aided and abetted in the subsequent cover-up.
In the interest of full disclosure re the cause of Zehm death, I don’t believe this was from the head strikes that by the evidence at trial was an illegal use of lethal force. As I’ve said before IMO I will go with the defense expert that was not called Zehm’s death was due to - positional asphyxia. Positional asphyxia is not without some controversy in the LE community. In the end these cases of sudden death while in custody must be examined on a case by case basis.
In the Zehm case, Otto was not only laid out prone, hogtied, officer(s) remained with a knee on this neck while prone AND WITH the application of the non-rebreather mask. See this recent article re the study of suspects placed in a prone position. http://www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/5018007-Is-prone-positioning-really-riskier-for-suspects/
brianrbreen on February 10 at 1:40 p.m.
@Ron_the_Cop
CO wanted an Ex parte interview…of course. But didn’t get it. This is a video deposition with both sides asking questions and Frederick’s lawyer objecting to all of the DOJ questions…like… What prompted you to write the letter to the court? Who aided you in making the decision to write the letter? Did you have any contact with anyone in violation of your confidentiality agreement? If so who? Would you be willing to supply us with your phone, correspondence, and email records pre and post letter? Just stuff like that.
It just could be Mr. Fredericks opened a can of worms for himself.
brianrbreen on February 10 at 1:48 p.m.
@Ron_the_Cop
I was just kidding about the questions…I don’t know what they would ask… those are just some I would try and get away with. I do sincerely hope they ask him if in his expert opinion there truly is an Ogopogo Monster, something I would really like cleared up.
Ron_the_Cop on February 10 at 1:54 p.m.
@Brian,
Brilliant minds think alike.
I’m sure that AUSA Durkin et al are gearing up for this depo to ferret out just these things you listed. Gee I wonder if this depo will be open to the public? This could be entertaining to say
Mr. Treppiedi are you listening? You’d should have spent more time in court listening to the expert and other witness testimony on this point re the initial baton strikes.
Mr. Treppied IMO you just shot yourself in the foot and opened a whole can of worms as Brian suggested:-)
Oh and BTW this case now breaking by S-R Cuniff has yours and Mr. Delaney’s fingerprints all over it. Both Brian and I told Mayor Verner et al that they should seek outside independent legal counsel in matters dealing with SPD. Hopefully Mayor Condon won’t follow in their footsteps as he too will suffer the curse of the one term mayor:-)
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sirens/2012/feb/09/fugitive-bounty-hunter-arrested-fla/
brianrbreen on February 10 at 1:57 p.m.
@Ron_the_Cop
It’s a sealed deposition. So I probably will never know if Ogopogo really does exsist.
Ron_the_Cop on February 10 at 2:25 p.m.
Darn! There could be some Oscar winning performances if this wasn’t so real and serious. You know what they say about truth being stranger than fiction.
johnclarke on February 10 at 2:32 p.m.
This is the type of legal defense you get with a blank taxpayer funded check.
brianrbreen on February 10 at 2:41 p.m.
@johnclarke
I understand your point, but if it is of any consolation to you, the guy watching out for your money is a real tightwad.
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 10 at 3:02 p.m.
@EthicsinLE
KT’s daughter was saying a few weeks ago that there was a minute+ missing from the tapes.
Which also makes me think that info perhaps was given out even with the gag order or confidentiality agreement or whatever it was in place.
So makes me wonder, Are you also a member of the 505 clan?
EthicsinLE on February 10 at 3:48 p.m.
@ liveinfearoftheSPD - I can assure you I am not one of the 505 postings, in fact I don’t even know how to use face book. I was referring to the SR reporting, which I interpreted to mean the first 1 min. 13 sec. were missing, specifically “that the video does not show Thompson striking Zehm with a baton for the first minute and 13 seconds of the confrontation – that he now says was withheld from defense”. If my interpertation was wrong, my error. If that is true, this is a game changer and huge issue. IMO, Ofc. Thompson handled this inapproiatly and it pisses me off when officers do such things, as all of LE gets a black eye. Many of us work hard to do the right thing and are tired of the constant negative bashings. I think this should have been settled LONG ago, but the city has spent hundreds of thousands of OUR dollars fighting what is sure to be a inevitable victory for the Zehm family, rightfully so. A bigger issue I am concerned with is the cover up, officers taking the 5th and people who seem to have “forgotten” things. Ofc. Thompson DID NOT kill Mr. Zehm. He was not charged with that nor was it ever alleged. Other actions by other persons did. I am in LE, but if we screw up, we screw up. We’ll take our bashings and move on.
And yes Lewis, how the Zehm family chooses to proceed with this is THEIR business, none of yours. It is them who suffered the loss and will have to sit in on years of depositions, trials, media coverage and stress. Ms. Zehm, giver her age (Sorry, no offense), does not need the stress of this to stretch out. And the Federal sentence will have no connection to mediations, nor should it, two separate issues. If you could put your blind rage against law enforcement aside and use reasonableness for once, you might actually be taken as more than idiotic. But you do make good entertainment, thanks for the laughs.
EthicsinLE on February 10 at 3:57 p.m.
@ Livininfera & lewis, I’d like to do something constructive. You both seem to have a distrust of law enforcement for your own reasons. I’d like to help work on that and show you we (LE) are overall good guys who want to do the best thing for our community. Sure, a few of us make mistakes, but the offices are hired from the general pool of society and are humans after all. If you have any legitimate questions as to how or why we do things, ask and I will answer if I can. I genuinely believe much of the criticism we face comes from a lack of understanding of what we deal with, the law, tactics, etc.
Final point. LE nowadays has been tasked with being counselors, peace keepers, therapist, parents for those who can’t control their kids, CSI techs, lawyers, use of force experts, first aid gives and so much more. We are now handling calls that mental health should be, but can’t or won’t. What do you think of a mental health facility who calls the police because a patient is having a psych. issue and they want us to transport him to the hospital psych. ward? Happens all the time. They do it because MHP takes to long to respond and it’s easier / faster on them to call us to handle it – they’ve told me this directly.
IanJones on February 10 at 4:05 p.m.
So this is a good thing….Now Fredericks can be interviewed….IF the judge decides it warrants a New trial….then Thompson deserves that….Just as ANY citizen would….If the judge decides it doesn’t….and all appeals are exhausted….then sentence the guy….whatever the outcome is then everyone live with it!!! However I don’t see that happening….IF Thompson gets new trial I can already hear some screaming cover up….If he doesn’t get new trial I can already hear the other side screaming it’s not fair…..People its our justice system…Live with it!!
brianrbreen on February 10 at 4:22 p.m.
@Ethics
I can’t link it from here, but if Ron_the_Cop could link Durkin’s 2/03/12 filing you can kind of understand what it is all about. I can see where the confusion might be, but the FB post, at least to me, might show some confusion on someone else’s part with what Fredericks had said in his letter to the court, of course how they got it might be an issue. I’m not saying you had anything to do with or knowledge of the FB post.
If I’m wrong and the DOJ did provide the defense with altered or deleted video… which I seriously doubt because it doesn’t make sense, and all the video came originally from the SPD than Thompson would probably get a new trial.
Ron_the_Cop on February 10 at 4:23 p.m.
@Ethics at 3:57,
Agreed. We’re on the same page here. I don’t think any video was withheld as I said above.
@Ian,
I have no issue with defense having a shot at Fredericks. This could be entertaining on issues having nothing to do with the video.
The defense now can question Fredericks. The defense was given more time to include anything of substance in their motion for a new trial.
DickAdams on February 10 at 4:38 p.m.
I continue to be perplexed by Mayor Condon appointing City Attorney Delaney and of course in doing so automatically left city attorney Roco Treppiedi on the city payroll. More and more I think Condon merely took advantage of former mayor Mary Verner`s press conference where she looked like a fool, and the lime light started to focus on Verner`s knowledge of the Otto Zehm cover-up. From that point on Condon beat the drum using it as a tool to be elected to office. At outset of the Otto Zehm homicide, Roco Treppiedi took the position it was Otto Zehm`s fault. from the outset. Condon`s lip service when he was campaigning for mayor, made the Spokanites into believing he`d bring a clean broom as soon as he was sworn into office. I thought (as many people thought) he would fire Treppiedi immediately, and Roco would have been kicking tin cans down the road a month ago.
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 10 at 4:39 p.m.
@Ethics, I guess we read the article differently. I see it as the first minute+ has been misinterpreted, rather than missing. And Fredericks believes he is the only one seeing it correctly
But seems no matter if Fredericks believes this or not, that even Thompson in his sworn statement, and again on the stand in court, said it was different than what Fredericks believes.
@Ian
Save your breath. There will always be 2 views (sides) I think it will take more than your words of wisdom to make the world see the light.
Ron_the_Cop on February 10 at 5:09 p.m.
@Brian,
Here’s the link to AUSA Durkin’s filing as you requested from my previous post in the Det. Harvey article:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/feb/08/fired-police-detective-sues-city-seeks-back-pay/?comments#c408700
On the subject of FB posting I would have this caveat for police officers from the senior editor of PoliceOne.com
On the Internet, silence cannot be misquoted
http://www.policeone.com/police-jobs/articles/4976277-On-the-Internet-silence-cannot-be-misquoted/
generallyspeaking on February 10 at 5:38 p.m.
Well…..IM bacK……first off…..let me say…This is AWESOME….KT is NOW on the road to a new trial….and hopefully a NOT guilty Plea!!! YESSSS………
NOW for the fun stuff!!…From the posts in the last two weeks apparently BrianBreen CANT stop thinking about me….Hilarious if it wasn’t kinda creepy!!! Can you say….man crush?? Sorry BrianBreen I don’t swing that way. I see you all have been busy furiously typing away at your computers….What a bunch of bafoons!!!
Ian…let me give you a run down how it works in here….See there is one guy who is the puppeteer….Or OZ because he thinks he knows everything…..then there are his puppets…..One is kinda the village idiot who they all coddle, because, well he isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed….then there is one who is just NUTS….she comments on anything and everything……THEN there is another who is just a angry hen……who is obsessed about WHERE wrist band money went…but she doesn’t want to do the research herself to find out….While they are hilarious to watch get all spun up….their BAFOONS…..They think ANYONE who doesn’t see their view is a cop….or as you have experienced MUST be the same person……Ian….save your breath….they dont want to debate….Because they think they are RIGHT and anyone who see’s it different is a cop……
Man I haven’t laughed so hard in awhile…..friggin CLASSIC…..
EthicsinLE on February 10 at 5:40 p.m.
@livininar, thanks for the comment. I know no matter what happens, there will always be two sides / opinions. It just gets very frustrating when so many of us work so hard to do the right thing by our citizens. After all, we all live here and are your neighbors, co-workers, friends, etc.. I could almost guarantee that if you did a few ride along’s and saw what really occurs (Not on TV or what the media reports nonsense), you would see things differently. Trust me, this is not an easy job. We are tasked with being counselors, peace keepers, parents to those who can’t control their kids, first aid responders, law enforcers, therapist, lawyers, CSI techs, etc.. While we have seconds to observe, perceive and react, attorneys, use of force experts, IA, DOJ, supervisors, media, etc, have years to sit back and critique. Forgive me if some of my postings have been harsh, but I work my butt off to serve the community with morals, ethics and pride, just to be continually bashed due to the actions of a VERY, VERY few. I’d like to invite you on a ride along. I’ve worked very hard to keep my good name and the good reputation of the profession, so yes, it does piss me off when an officer does something stupid as we all get a black eye. Anytime you want to ride with me, even though we have different opinions on some things, you’re welcome to. Your right, it will take more than my words, so come on out, have fun and see what we’re all about. Even if we do disagree, I and every officer I know will be there to serve you.
I’ve reported abusive cops before and have no reservation in doing so. In 20+ years, I can honestly say I’ve only seen 1 guy that had no business in the profession. I reported him and he is no longer a cop. I have a feeling if you got to know us outside of what the media reports, which is often inaccurate and biased, you would have a different opinion. Lewis, same offer to you. We NEED your support to serve you. I’ll let you guys hold em’ down while I tase em” (just kidding guys).
PlanB on February 10 at 5:56 p.m.
This is a totally contrived “violation”. VanSickle is succumbing to alzheimers or some other mental disorder before our eyes.
Ron_the_Cop on February 10 at 6:09 p.m.
@GS,
I’m really offended. You didn’t mention me. After all isn’t this all about me? At least that’s what others have said that should be more worried about what the feds may do:-)
lewis8457 on February 10 at 6:36 p.m.
EthicsLE i stand by my earlier post where was all this concern for Mrs. Zehm through five years of lying and the city saying Otto caused his own death?
I don’t dislike cops just the 28% from the 505 page that openly said Otto deserved to die. Thank you for not being one of those 28%.
generally speaking welcome home hope you had a good trip, i went down to COPS at Shadle today and signed up to be a volunteer, hopefully they will approve my application.
Ian did you take Brians suggestion and read up on the issues being discussed?
Zehm family do not agree on anything until karl is in jail you are being duped. The minute you agree to their terms karl will walk free.
generallyspeaking on February 10 at 6:40 p.m.
Oh…my earlier post was flagged…..yet lewis, Misjustice, shelala and BB can post anything they like….WHO said the SR wasn’t biased or slanted……Thats good stuff right there!! Friggin Hilarious…..!!!
generallyspeaking on February 10 at 6:45 p.m.
Wouldn’t expect anything less from the old national joke SR rag tag…..
Ron_the_Cop on February 10 at 6:53 p.m.
@EthicsinLE,
Good move. You haven’t heard me saying this job is not mentally demanding. While perhaps not as dangerous as crab fishing and lumber jacks, the job takes its toll physically from the stress of handling situations that society throws at us without adequate resources.
Stats will show LE officers die younger from stress related illness than a comparable normal segment of the population. Some cope better than others. Some drink too much and or abuse drugs both legal and illegal. Some take it out on their families. The divorce rate is high compared to other occupations.
I don’t mean to be a broken record but it’s easier just to admit when mistakes are made. It’s inevitable as officers are only human.
The police and the community need each other. Circling the wagons doesn’t do anyone any good except the crooks who will exploit these weaknesses.
@GS,
I wouldn’t be talking trash on Shelala and Ms. Justy on the armband thing. Remember I did my time as an econ/financial crimes investigator and was involved in several million dollar charity frauds. I’ve done several boiler rooms in my day. Google “Mitch Gold” and Orange Co, CA.
I would hope that the 505 FB folks are under a valid 501(c)(3) tax exempt organization. One that is currently registered both with WA and the IRS. Further I would hope the named officers of this organization ensure that every penny is accounted for and file for 2011 a form IRS Form 990. BTW a 501(c)(4) labor organization is what most POAs are registered under are tax-exempt but donations made to them are not tax-exempt:-)
misjustice on February 10 at 6:56 p.m.
@ Brian
“CO wanted an Ex parte interview. Didn’t get it. Now both sides get a shot at Fredericks, in a deposition.”
Yup! Fredericks was the one that whined post trial. His whining reminds me of that old saying, “be careful what you ask for; you just might get it!” Now he’ll be in the “hot seat”…
; )
Shelala on February 10 at 7:01 p.m.
@Ethics
In your opinion, how do you explain the almost cult-like following Thompson has among many members of the SPD?
Shelala on February 10 at 7:12 p.m.
@Ron
I know more than a thing or two about financial crimes. GS thinks it’s silly to question where the wristband money and donations went and to ask for an accounting. I betcha these folks would have wished they would have asked for an accounting. eh? http://www.king5.com/news/local/Lakewood-Police-officer-charged-with-embezzling-from-Fallen-Officers-Fund-138959329.html
Shelala on February 10 at 7:14 p.m.
@Lewis
Good for you to volunteer!!!!
generallyspeaking on February 10 at 7:17 p.m.
Shelala….dont think it’s dumb to ask about wristband money….think it’s dumb that you whine and whine about WHERES the money….but don’t do the research yourself…kinda lazy it sounds….
generallyspeaking on February 10 at 7:18 p.m.
SURE you did Lewis…
generallyspeaking on February 10 at 7:19 p.m.
If you did…I will be calling there tomorrow and asking them if a dude applied to be a volunteer and they MIGHT wanna check out your SR posts…..
BlondeSquawker on February 10 at 7:34 p.m.
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along, move along.
misjustice on February 10 at 8:16 p.m.
Hey, Blondie!
Like I said on the first post…
; )
generallyspeaking on February 10 at 9:04 p.m.
Why would I care what you find out about the wristband sales….doesn’t affect me……..bafoons…
mary1958 on February 10 at 9:31 p.m.
@ EthicsinLE
If you are acting as a therapist, counselor, or lawyer you are working outside your abilities as these professions require education and license. I think you should stick to what you were trained to do and stop acting like you are god in a blue suit. The police academy is woefully inadequate for such skills. I remember officers who would regularly go to sleep near the Indian Center at 5:00 am instead of patrolling streets, running radar, or serving warrants. Your job is so hard? I did it–-get a grip.
michaelm on February 10 at 9:57 p.m.
generallyspeaking on February 10 at 6:45 p.m.
Wouldn’t expect anything less from the old national joke SR rag tag…..”
That’s kind of harsh, don’t you think? (heavy sigh) We just don’t get no respect ‘round here. ;-)
I originally deleted your flagged 5:38 p.m. comment because much of it was off-topic, but I can see that it’s giving some of our posters the wrong impression, so I’ve reinstated it. As I’ve said before, brevity and/or politics aren’t my real concern on these forums anyway — I’m all about keepin’ it civil.
Truthhurts on February 10 at 9:59 p.m.
Condon is looking like a liar and a coward in proportions that time will reveal.
He beat Verner because he promised ACTION against Zehm perpetrators, starting with his promise to fire Treppledi.
Condon has lost his way.
Ed Byrnes on February 10 at 11:31 p.m.
Due process will run it’s course and the offender will be held accountable. I am not fan of Martha Stewart though she did request to begin her sentence rather than exhaust all possible remedies, which is more than can be said about the offender who is the topic of this article, and who approximately 28% of the SPD believe is a hero as demonstrated by their 505 page membership, and who 16% publicly saluted post felony conviction.
A representative of the lieutenants and captains organization spoke at the City Council meeting on Monday about them having an image problem. The SPD has a behavior problem that leads to their image problem, and apparently resolving the behavior problem is not of as much concern as their image to their peer elected leaders.
Ed Byrnes
brianrbreen on February 11 at 6:13 a.m.
@michaelm
I don’t know who you Pi$$ed Off, but it must have been well up the food chain, hope you are out of the dog house soon!
brianrbreen on February 11 at 6:48 a.m.
@michaelm
Let me just add this. I for one do like the newspaper always have. I used to read it before I started delivering it when I was a kid. Like me; I think every kid dreams of having some kind of talent that would some day propel them to something like “rock star status”. Well I never had any musical or acting talent or any talent for that matter that I thought would ever get me there. It wasn’t until recently and despite my age that I have finally been recognized for a talent that I didn’t know I had. Apparently I made it to that “rock star status” this late in the game and have developed a following like an actor, or musician while at the same time providing some of your readers with “friggin classic” laughter, or entertainment that was “Friggin Hilarious”. I don’t know how to that thank the SR for the opportunity to first and foremost realize I actually do have some talent, and by the same token develop and refine those talents. It is a great experience, and I appreciate what this platform has done for me. My only question is do I have to join some type of union or get a SAG card now?
brianrbreen on February 11 at 7:45 a.m.
@Ethics
As far as I’m concerned you have the greatest job in the world and the most powerful. I was damn lucky to have had it too. I think “mary1958” is right you don’t have the training nor the time to really completely get into the head of the people you deal with so you just have to do your best to try and understand them the best you can while at the same treating them the same way you would want to be treated, whether they appear to be a “scumbag” or not.
Unlike you I have seen many cops that had no business being cops, and I too have been involved in getting rid of them. On the other hand I’ve been involved in defending them. One thing I’ve noticed is that nearly all were well liked and respected by their peers, and it was hard for those peers to believe they were bad.
Very few people that post here actually hate cops…Lewis included…I believe he only hates the way he lost a friend and has trouble expressing that without lumping all cops into the same category…off the wall…yes…but before you could make an honest judgment about why… you would have to know a lot more about Lewis. If you were to convince him to do a ride along I think he would have a better understanding of you and what you do, and you would have a better understanding of him. I would bet Lewis would love it and so would you. The problem you would have with Lewis is he would then want to do it every shift.
As far as the SPD is concerned…they got problems…lots of problems, there is no getting around it and until such time as everyone is willing to admit that, the problems will continue.
Shelala on February 11 at 8:26 a.m.
@ethics
What’s all this with a ride along? you are a municipal employee, nothing more, nothing less. except you are employed by a department that has lots and lots of problems. Maybe they should offer ride alongs with STA bus drivers or refuse collectors or code enforcement people or a city road crew? Get over yourself.
lewis8457 on February 11 at 8:27 a.m.
GS go ahead and call i talked to two ladies there one if the one who interviews the volunteers, see you can not even believe the truth . it seems you are like those you accuse only willing to believe your own truths. i take it back hope you had a miserable vacation.
i picked up the application friday will turn it in monday go ahead and check loser.
going to check my posts? Are you the blog police now, your kind takes all the fun out of blogging.
You blamed MisJ for posting to much but you have the time to check on my posts? Sounds like you are just a angry little man living in mommies basement.
lewis8457 on February 11 at 8:31 a.m.
GS i went to the Shadle COP station call the right one OK?
Will you truthfully post what you find out?
Go ahead and call.
Also making a tent city in mommies basement doesn’t count for taking a vacation.
i have the app. filled out i will take it over there today. just to make you happy.
at least i am willing to help more then you who just sit in your high chair and judge.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 9:35 a.m.
Speaking of “warrants”…if you don’t have probable cause to get one…it is not a good idea to do this.
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sirens/2012/feb/09/fugitive-bounty-hunter-arrested-fla/
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 9:47 a.m.
That doesn’t have anything to do with this murder…pretty sure a triple murder…they had probable cause….kinda off topic as michaelm doesn’t like…isn’t it BrianBreen??
brianrbreen on February 11 at 9:48 a.m.
Sorry…thought we were on warrants.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 9:59 a.m.
@michaelm…or whom ever is watching
Please forgive me; sometimes I have trouble keeping up. I wasn’t sure if we were on warrants, law enforcement careers, village idiots, or the Thompson case.
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 10:03 a.m.
Brian….one case with a different officer not having a warrant….has nothing to do with this case…….keep up would ya…
brianrbreen on February 11 at 10:04 a.m.
I’ll try!
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 10:14 a.m.
Lewis…Printing your posts out as we speak….will hand deliver them to the cop shop…..and ask them if a guy came in yesterday and asked about being a volunteer…..then give them your posts…after all I am sure it’s not everyday someone comes in and asks about volunteering or applies….But really some how I don’t think you did…..
Shelala on February 11 at 10:22 a.m.
@GS
You’d be surprised what I know (cluck, cluck).
lewis8457 on February 11 at 10:27 a.m.
OK Jerome I turned it in to two men a SHADLE COPS, you might want to think twice before you call me a liar again.
At least i want to be part of the solution rather then the problem, maybe you could do the same thing.
lewis8457 on February 11 at 10:29 a.m.
jerome that is a act of harassment against me, i can sue you be careful you getting close to being a criminal yourself.
lewis8457 on February 11 at 10:31 a.m.
you tell them a lie about me i will sue i dont lie.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 10:47 a.m.
@Shelala
As for me, I would like to stay on topic…so I won’t even try to bring up First Amendment Rights. I just want you and the moderator to know that.
Shelala on February 11 at 10:54 a.m.
@Lewis
Ignore GS. He is trying hard to be a bully. If you look back through HIS posts, you will see he has nothing to offer, no one pays attention to him, and generally speaking is generally as a$$. He thinks he “wins” when he gets a rise out of someone. I would be very happy to see you on the list of Cops volunteers and everyone with an interest in making Spokane better and is willing to actually take an active role has a place in our community.
IanJones on February 11 at 10:56 a.m.
Generallyspeaking….I see….but I REALLY just had questions about the Otto case, as that seems to be on or in the news every other day…..
But could ya take it a little easier on the posters in here? According to BB you and I are one in the same, and your kinda making me look bad in here…..I mean I do think they are a little biased, silly, and some at times unbalanced but not my style to call them idiots and such….
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 10:59 a.m.
If you are referring to Lewis and his 1st amendment rights….absolutely right…..he can say pretty much whatever he likes…it’s a public forum so nothing wrong with printing his words and giving them to the Cop shop…then they can determine if they want him there…
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 11 at 11:32 a.m.
You have pretty freely categorized several posters to these forums.
So do tell, how do you categorize yourself? Or perhaps GS?
Bias is really not fitting.
Even you are biased towards your opinions, as they are yours after-all!
On topic:
I am wondering what the next ploy will be from the attorney, of the man who supposedly has accepted responsibility, will be to further drag this along?
Ron_the_Cop on February 11 at 11:34 a.m.
Can’t we all just get along? :-)
BTW there is a newer post of this article:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/feb/11/thompson-request-okd/
brianrbreen on February 11 at 11:35 a.m.
@IanJones
I’m sure you and “generallyspeaking/justme09” are two completely different personalities. I can’t remember the exact term…@mary1958 would know it. I have no problem with that, and I’m happy to hear that @generallyspeaking has no problem with coping postings on a public forum and presenting it to whomever.
Keep in mind I’m available if you need research help.
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 11:46 a.m.
@Ian…..see what I mean about “coddling”….
@Shelala…. apparently people DO pay attention to my posts….they o comment on them….so they pay attention……even you….
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 11:47 a.m.
@Ian….SEE what I mean about “coddling”…..
@Shelala….apparently they DO pay attention to my posts….they cant help but comment on them…..Even you
brianrbreen on February 11 at 11:50 a.m.
Ooops!!
brianrbreen on February 11 at 12:32 p.m.
@generallyspeaking
Don’t worry about it everyone understands multi-tasking is difficult. I not sure if every understands your explanation on the link below when you changed your screen name from justme09 to generallyspeaking after your insider info regarding the women who jumped off the bridge came to light. But that is okay we all understand.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/dec/08/doug-clark-van-tastic-decision-takes-load-off-for/?comments
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 12:47 p.m.
Oh…you got me old wise one….Im in medical Insurance claims….think you were trying to chastise me once for breaking Hippa laws….until I pointed out I knew a little about the laws…and no such were broken since no names were mentioned…..Nor were intimate details…..
Think you have the perception you are a little smarter then you are….wondering how the other posters feel about you calling them your “followers”, and that you have a “rock star” status now…..Hmmm all it took was a little posting on SR to make you feel important,,,,…pathetic
and never denied I use to go by the handle justme09…no big secret there Nancy Drew……
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 12:48 p.m.
THAT just might explain why I know something about the jumper….what a bafoon
brianrbreen on February 11 at 1:01 p.m.
I see!
lewis8457 on February 11 at 2:07 p.m.
Jerome your village idiot comment was funny I only asked because it seems if the police see a dead body in the house they could enter without a warrant in case there were other people in the house that needed aid.
lewis8457 on February 11 at 2:09 p.m.
Jerome you ruin my chances to help out at the cop shops i will have nothing else to do but stay on theses blogs, hahahaha
brianrbreen on February 11 at 2:10 p.m.
@Lewis
I think @Ethics would be able to explain that to you. It is a good question, and there is a good answer.
lewis8457 on February 11 at 2:13 p.m.
Jerome here you go your own post the last sentence you are calling me a liar. You are making this personal be careful you have no idea who I am or what I am capable of read that any way you wish.
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 10:14 a.m.
Lewis…Printing your posts out as we speak….will hand deliver them to the cop shop…..and ask them if a guy came in yesterday and asked about being a volunteer…..then give them your posts…after all I am sure it’s not everyday someone comes in and asks about volunteering or applies….But really some how I don’t think you did…..
lewis8457 on February 11 at 2:16 p.m.
Brian hopefully Ethics will come on and explain it for me. Would be sad to learn someone needed aid died because the police need a warrant first.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 2:19 p.m.
@Lewis
It isn’t a worry Lewis; @Ethics will be able to explain it to you. But it is a real good question.
Like Shelala said don’t tack a worry on GS, I should follow that advice.
mary1958 on February 11 at 3:01 p.m.
@ generallyspeaking
Okay, I got a little insulting with the “god in a blue suit” statement. I have been a police officer and a therapist so perhaps my perspective is different. No, I was not fired but I was under the impression that the admin was attempting to try to drum up something to do that. If they want to protect you they can and if they want to create evidence they can as well. I didn’t leave because of that but it certainly didn’t make me want to stay. I don’t think that they liked my complaints. Yes, indeed, there were a few things that I couldn’t “hack.” I loved my job and enjoyed it very much. Graveyard was difficult in that I had trouble sleeping during the day. There were men there (Mar ‘88-Dec ‘91) that did not like women working on patrol. I was the recipient of statements and support such as ” you’re the first woman I thought could really do the job” to any number of vile and difficult to deal with situations such as:
–-a fellow police academy student pointing and shrugging his shoulders at me in the academy saying, “who wants to go into a bar fight with a girl like Maaary!”
–-An academy instructor making fun of me in front of the class.
–—An obscene phone call made to my home by an officer whose voice I recognized.
–—Going on calls with certain men who did not recognize me as the primary on the call (when I was) and taking over for me as if I was incompetent making me look stupid. Fortunately there were not many of them but it doesn’t take many.
–—Being bullied by a supervisor who never once stopped to ask me what it was like to be a women amongst so many male officers or what my experience was like.
–—Working on a team where four of the males stuck together and ignored the two females on the team. Fortunately there was one male who interacted with us, thank you Ofc Strickland. Later Sgt Giannetto made them work in the same car with us where before they could choose who they worked with. That made them talk to us and improved the relationship.
–—Being raped on a first date by the only officer I dated. He took me to a remote location in Idaho on the Coeur D’Alene river. Victims often repress what happens to them in order to survive mentally. He acted like he did nothing wrong. I continued to see him feeling like I was in a surreal world.
–—Being pummeled by this same officer after I asked him two civil questions while standing on his doorstep. He had been lying to me about seeing other women. I did not try to enter his home, attack him verbally or physically, or threaten him before he grabbed me and then ultimately yanked my hair, wrenched my arm behind my back and attempted to drag me up the stairs. He had not asked me to leave his property. He lost his balance and let go of me for a split second. I turned and in self defense punched him in the nose. He them threw me on the ground and put a choke hold over my throat and began banging my head off the concrete.
I could go on but I am getting tired as I often do when I try to explain things to people who don’t understand what it was like to be a woman on patrol back then and who think I am trying to feel sorry for myself. I do feel sorry a little for the girl in me that wanted to help people with my athletic and intellectual skill and who just wanted to find someone to marry and have children with. I will continue on another blog as I am over the limit –please see later post.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 3:22 p.m.
Actually…the City paid out a pretty good chunk of change close to the same time period for similar conduct to a female officer who sued.
mary1958 on February 11 at 3:28 p.m.
@ generallyspeaking I have the continuation for you:
I was on the Dignitary Protection Team, Hostage Negotiation Team, TAC team, taught police report writing at the police academy, and had 5 letters of commendation in my file. I was 3rd on the list out of 33 people to be promoted to PFC and I had the fifth fastest score on the last combat shoot out of 270 officers. My physical fitness level was “excellent” instead of the top rated “superior’ because of my fat level which was a normal 22%. I ran the mile in 7:40, did 55 situps in a minute, 45 male push-ups in a minute, bench pressed 137 lbs, and leg pressed 500lbs. I could hack it mostly. I could learn more as well. I was suffering from post traumatic stress disorder which I could not label (only stressed out) until I worked as a therapist after getting a masters in teaching psych and a CDP. I saw two police doctors one of which called me an “ass” and I could not get approved the 6 month leave I wanted to rest. I had planned in October of 91 to leave in December after filing bankruptcy to aid me in leaving as I had no husband, no family, and no savings to help me in this transition. It was not the job that made me want to leave it was the police system. As I was working at the front desk a man came in to see a Lt. in admin. I called a secretary who I did not know and she said the Lt. would be back in five minutes. I left a message for him to come out when he returned as someone was there to see him. The man approached me again and I said in as upbeat tone as my depressed soul could muster, “The Lt. will be out in a minute, sir.” Apparently the Lt. had gone home and the man made a complaint. I was schedule for a “louder-mill” on December 15 for this. I quit as I was planning to do and went to bed for three weeks and cried. But as Dr Deannette Palmer told me, “crying means your weak.” She was a big help–heh.
I tell you this “generallyspeaking” as I feel I have the right to have an opinion just like you. I know a lot about what happens there and about the “police personality.” I will try to be less pungent.
misjustice on February 11 at 3:37 p.m.
Generallyspeaking/Justme09again = flag as inappropriate.
Only because “flag as a thread-derailng cyber-bully” is not an option.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 3:39 p.m.
This is from a March 2007 SR Piece regarding Rocco Treppiedi. I believe the terms of the settlement exceed the $195,000 amount.
I linked another SR story regarding the City’s handling of it.
“Treppiedi also tangled with Sandra Brewer, Spokane’s first female cop, who was hired in 1979 but filed a claim against the city in 1985 for on-the-job sexual harassment – winning a $195,000 settlement.
In 1991, after Brewer spoke to a Spokane Community College law enforcement class on the impact of sexual harassment, Treppiedi delivered a letter from then-Police Chief Terry Mangan to course instructor Bruce Randall, saying Brewer was violating her confidential 1985 settlement agreement.
Randall, head of the law enforcement program, called the letter “threatening” and an effort to chill Brewer’s First Amendment rights. Treppiedi said he was merely enforcing the 1985 agreement.
Brewer said police planted the wife of a detective in the class to secretly record her speech. The tape was delivered to Mangan.”
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19860112&id=BnUzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=T-8DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5979,5524113
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 3:40 p.m.
OH I forgot….you were upset because you couldn’t get a 6 month vacation….SERIOUSLY???!!!
mary1958 on February 11 at 3:48 p.m.
@ generallyspeaking
You sound like YOU might be an officer. You sound like SOME of the males attitudes that I experienced there. While I was there Sandy Brewer’s book (she was the first female on patrol in Spokane) came out and was written by Corliss Morris. “Behind the Badge: A Police Woman’s Ordeal” It is still available online. I read it and felt better actually as she had it worse than I did. She paved the way. I wrote a note to a fellow female officer who had been having problems as well and put it in the book. I placed it in her box. When she got the book the note had been removed and she didn’t know who had put it in there which freaked her out. Sandy won a lawsuit against the city. I was not able to muster up any mental energy to face such an ordeal alone. SOME of the officers hired are antisocial or borderline antisocial and should not be officers.
I was angry about what the male officer did to me and went to see Dr. Paul Hastings one of the three police doctors. After hearing my story he said, “Mary, you were raped.” I could no longer deny the magnitude of the situation. I counseled and or worked as a social worker with victims for seven years after the PD. A lack of empathy for others is a trait in “narcissism.” You don’t seem to be very empathic toward me, sir. I’ll survive.
Ron_the_Cop on February 11 at 3:53 p.m.
@Mary,
Sorry you had such a bad experience breaking into what was a male dominated profession. However what you experienced goes beyond the usual bias against female officers. What you described was criminal and the perp should have been charged. End of story.
@Lewis,
OK I’ll take a stab at it re s/w at murder scenes. Short of a dead body out in the open that’s been there a while, you are right but the others are too. It’s complicated.
If you’re responding to a crime in progress and or one that just past, entry into the scene can be without a search warrant under the exigent circumstance exception. A number of factors can be made for the entry, to render aid to the victim and any others that are injured at the residence and or other hazardous situations e.g., a fire has been set, gas left on et al. Secondly a search can be made of the residence for possible suspects that can be temporary detained and or other subjects that can be removed for officer safety. Another reason would be to preserve any perishable forensic evidence e.g., a bloody knife left in the sink with the water running on it.
While conducting this search anything in plain view probably can be seized without warrant. At some point once the scene is secured IT IS BEST PRACTICE to obtain a search warrant for the residence so there won’t be any admissibility issues with any items/evidence seized. If the victim lives at the residence they could give consent to all areas of the house, however this could be a problem if the victim is dead. If any of the potential suspects live at the house they would have standing to raise illegal seizure issues for items collected not in plain view. In the initial phase of the investigation you may not know who the bad guys are so this is why it’s best to obtain a search warrant once the scene is secured so that there are no later problems.
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 3:54 p.m.
Mary…not a cop…never have been, never wanted to be…but as I had to explain once to Brian…have family in CA who are, and one killed in the line of duty down there……Sorry your story is just a little unbelievable…..
Ron_the_Cop on February 11 at 4:01 p.m.
@Brian,
My point -
Mayor Condon - FIRE TREPPIEDI ASAP
There is a common thread to all these problem cases -
T R E P P I E D I !!!
mary1958 on February 11 at 4:02 p.m.
I did not know Brian at the time, however, another male detective that I knew offered to help me get a job in another department. I was simultaneously doing a research project which was ultimately published (The Plight of Female Police: A Survey of Northwest Patrolmen in “The Police Chief” September 1991) and I realized that I would experience the same thing in other departments. My research focused on the attitudes of men toward women in law enforcement. Only 25% actually accepted and encouraged women. Thank you to those officers such as J. Strickland, T. Lee, T. Chapman and the detective whose name escapes me who are some of those that were supportive.
When I first applied for leave I did not know that “stress leave” was paid. I would have taken a leave of absense. This was not offered either. Okay I guess I just have to accept that I was a paver of the way as well and this is just the price I have to pay. No tax dollars were spent taking my side. Relax.
IanJones on February 11 at 4:11 p.m.
Can someone explain the Brady issue to me, as it is referenced in this article…and I have seen it referenced in several posts….
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 11 at 4:30 p.m.
@Ian
Brady Motion Law & Legal Definition
http://definitions.uslegal.com/b/brady-motion/
brianrbreen on February 11 at 4:33 p.m.
@Mary1958
Bob Bailor?
Shelala on February 11 at 4:36 p.m.
IMO, it is important to understand that police officers are hired from pools of regular citizens. What they become and how successful they will be is largely determined by their training, their character and how they handle the power the citizens bestowed on the position, LE attracts more than its share of less than desirable candidates hungry for the power, the gear, the guns and the stereotypical image, but lacking the ability to exercise the need for good judgement and responsibility that comes with the position of trust. Hopefully, these applicants are weeded out early, but some squeak by through transfers from other agencies, knowing the right contacts or parroting the right things to say. Some are discovered to just lack the talent to do the job after they are hired. Others become so comfortable and insulated that they believe they are untouchable, when in fact, it is the good successful officers that end up having to prop them up and try to overcome the damage they will continue to reign on their department and the public. They are protected by guilds and weak leaders. It is time for the cream to rise to the top and rid the department of these parasites. They’ve done everything, short of paint huge targets on their backs to identify who they are. What are we waiting for?
IanJones on February 11 at 4:38 p.m.
ok thank you…..livinginfear…..
A Brady motion is a defendant’s request for evidence concerning a material witness which is favorable to the defense and to which the defense may be entitled. Favorable evidence includes not only evidence that tends to exculpate the accused, but also evidence that may impeach the credibility of a government witness. A Brady violation occurs where the failure to disclose evidence to the defense deprives the defendant of a fair trial.
So if I am understanding everything I read so far what the defense team is claiming is that the prosecutors withheld evidence that MAY have helped the defense? Is that what this last motion was about?
Ron_the_Cop on February 11 at 4:54 p.m.
@Ian,
Essentially yes. IMO moot point in that the substance of Fredericks’ statement/opinion was given to the defense and now not really relevant based on other expert testimony, witness testimony including Thompson’s own statements and testimony.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 4:59 p.m.
Wow…eight in a row deleted…must be a record.
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 11 at 5:01 p.m.
@Brian
Will 10 get you a ban?
brianrbreen on February 11 at 5:02 p.m.
Darn if I know!
michaelm on February 11 at 5:07 p.m.
No, but it might give me an ulcer … (and yes, it was a record, afaik)
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 5:07 p.m.
Hmmm…I am gonna have to start flagging posts that are off topic….see if the old SR shows it’s one sided view again…after all what does Mary’s “story” have to do with the topic???? Just said she can’t claim to be a part of “paving” the way as she did nothing to help “pave” it…..
brianrbreen on February 11 at 5:10 p.m.
@michaelm
Do you want me to talk to Stacey for you? I did baby-sit him a couple of times.
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 11 at 5:11 p.m.
@GS
You said a whole lot more than that. I quit flagging your posts some time ago. I decided I want everyone to be able to see how vile and hateful you really are.
IanJones on February 11 at 5:13 p.m.
Ron…Ok…some of this stuff is a little convoluted for me….I really DO want to understand both sides…..but may have tried to understand something a little over my head….it’s kind of exhausting but peaked my interest due to all the coverage…..
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 5:15 p.m.
Not hateful….just call it like I see it….
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 5:26 p.m.
There you go…flagged a BUNCH of posts that were “off topic”….see what the old SR does….I am sure NOTHING…..Hey Michaelm…you wanna save yourself an ulcer?? Automatically remove and do not allow posts that are in anyway off topic…Only posts on the said article….Oh but then you couldn’t keep the one sided controversy going……heck flag me I dont care….but IF everyone else could stay on topic I would too….
Ron_the_Cop on February 11 at 5:32 p.m.
@Ian,
You’re welcome. This isn’t Fredericks’ first rodeo. As Brian said once he was retained by the City, he shouldn’t have done work later for the feds.
I’m gathering that Fredericks wasn’t really following the trial and was concerned that his opinion was incorrectly summarized and given to the defense by the prosecution. Based on AUSA Durkin’s filing I linked to above, I don’t think that’s the case. That’s one issue that Judge Van Sickle will rule on once he views the video from the depo and then reads the submissions from both the defense and prosecution.
If Judge Van Sickle determines that the prosecution materially withheld the information concerning Fredericks’ opinion then Judge Van Sickle will have to determine whether this had any bearing on the jury’s verdict. I don’t think so based on the other evidence/testimony presented to the jury separate from what Fredericks would have testified to if he was called.
@MichaelM, (Sorry off thread)
I’ve had a number of posts scrubbed but can’t recall if it was eight or more in one thread. Former editor Steve Smith did pull an entire thread from Gary Graham’s old blog:-) Had to do with the case of Robideaux vs. Cowles handled by Atty Bob Dunn. The S-R was late out of the gate in reporting this story by a number of months. Former Sheriff Bamonte called this to the attention of Mr. Stacey Cowles. When it did run the story, it was a staff report with no byline. The judgement was for around $6M but with interest after the Cowles lost on appeal the amount was more like $9M. The S-R reported the lower amount. Apparently this annoyed Mr. Smith when I pointed this out:-) Of course I was later banned for life by Mr. Smith. I’m still here and Mr. Smith is teaching over in Idaho:-)
michaelm on February 11 at 5:42 p.m.
Ron: I won’t speak ill of the man who lured me from the big city all those years ago, but I’m glad to see you’ve outlasted the ban. :-)
michaelm on February 11 at 5:56 p.m.
generallyspeaking: The purpose of these forums is to allow our readers to share some insight on the articles we post — not to become an insult-sharing podium where the rest of the audience is held hostage.
The comments of yours that were flagged and deleted were laden with “village idiot” and “angry hen” comments, along with a debate on another poster’s back story, only occasionally interspersed with a comment or two on the actual topic.
As other readers of my work here know, I tend to give forum writers a lot of leeway in the matter of staying on topic, as long as the asides are respectful. Yours weren’t.
mary1958 on February 11 at 6:06 p.m.
Something keeps drawing me to turn on my computer. Okay. @ Generallyspeaking: You were complaining that you are required to be a therapist and lawyer–—I responded tartly that that isn’t your job––you didn’t like my opine and said, “….weren’t you fired?” as if I have no business to speak–—I launched into how I wasn’t fired and my story. We digressed together. I have read many posts lately and it is not uncommon for a digression to occur. I do agree that sometimes it is hard to follow the thread.
You had a relative that was a law enforcement officer who was killed in the line of duty. That must hurt terribly. You probably looked up to your relative and have a lot of anger over his/her death. You, like many people in grief, sometimes become unable to remain balanced in the middle. It is almost like the pain pushes you to the edge. This is not unusual. Your beloved relative has given the ultimate sacrifice and no one can speak to the ability or honesty of his life as an officer except those that knew him/her well. Some people go to extremes in defending LE like groupies and others in the opposite direction as if no good policing ever occurred. I said that I was too taciturn in my response to Ethics. I feel angry sometimes as well. Try to understand that there are things that need to be changed and many people here wish to express their frustration.
@ Brianbreen: I truly do not remember this sweet man’s name who was quite gentle and slight of build. He was of retirement age in 1991 and did so.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 6:07 p.m.
@mary1958
I think that was Detective Bob Bailor who helped you out. I should have explained that.
@Ron
Don’t worry about getting banned or deleted, I’m pretty sure @michaelm is another one of those California transplants…and I know how you guys stick together.
Shelala on February 11 at 6:12 p.m.
@Ron
What’s in it for Fredericks to push the issue? He wasn’t called by either side. Something there?
brianrbreen on February 11 at 6:13 p.m.
@mary1958
Now I remember JJ Jimmy Johnson.
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 6:14 p.m.
Mary….I didn’t say anything about being a therapist/lawyer…you might want to re-read the posts….your confused
Michael….OH I see….they can call KT klubber karl…or threaten to break officers arms and such and that is OK….call someone an angry hen or village idiot is NOT ok……got it……Nice for you to finally show your true colors…..
mary1958 on February 11 at 6:21 p.m.
Correction: it was EthicsinLE that complained he was required to be a therapist… Gosh keeping track?
mary1958 on February 11 at 6:23 p.m.
@ Brian Yes, I think that was him.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 6:27 p.m.
@mary1958
I remember because we were trying to figure out some somewhat devious ways to help you out.
michaelm on February 11 at 6:28 p.m.
First off, GS, insulting a public figure who is not posting here happens all the time around here — and a lot of those insults are plays on the public figure’s name. These pages would be pretty empty if we held the bar that low. But insulting other posters is a more personal thing, and after a half-dozen or so (the number is completely subjective; some days it only takes one), I lose my tolerance for it.
As for posters making threats, that’s absolutely a red line, and I delete every message I see with that kind of talk. But I can’t monitor every conversation, all the time, so most of what comes to my attention was brought to it by being flagged. If you see any comments that violate our guidelines (You know, the ones that begin “Please keep it civil.”), please flag them and we’ll get to it as soon as we can.
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 6:31 p.m.
Other things I see from posters Michael is THEM calling people wingnuts, saying they hope my plane crashes, threatening I don’t know what he is capable of, all kinds of things they want to see done to Thompson…..all kinds of insults to the police dept….calling Trepeddie a drunk…calling cops parasites…..and then one particular posters off the wall rants…..awhile back there was an officer in here trying to just be a part of the conversation, and you continually allowed them to just rip her apart….accusing her of not be capable of doing her job…and then allowed them to post anything and everything she might have said online….that was particularly the one poster who rants about everything….YA I see what your agenda is Michael…..
Ron_the_Cop on February 11 at 6:33 p.m.
@Shelala,
Maybe. Depends. The stated purpose of his letter to the judge was really a day late and a dollar short. IMO really a moot issue.
Read up thread as Brian and I are too wondering who was pulling his strings - Treppiedi?
I don’t think the feds were concerned about Fredericks’ opinion. What they are protecting is their confidentiality agreement & what he could leak back to the City - Treppiedi. Who IMO is skating on thin ice with the feds.
generallyspeaking on February 11 at 6:35 p.m.
OH I see MIchael…you condone insulting public figures whether or not it has to do with the topic……After all if people/SR didn’t attack public figures you wouldnt have a paper now would you….
brianrbreen on February 11 at 6:38 p.m.
@michaelm
Thanks for taking the heat off of me and handling my light work.
Ron_the_Cop on February 11 at 6:39 p.m.
GS
FYI I never said Treppiedi was a drunkard. Now Tucker from many of my sources could benefit from AA. I did say any LEs stopping him should quit giving him a free ride.
michaelm on February 11 at 6:42 p.m.
GS, I don’t want to get into a p*ssing contest with you. I can see that this conversation is off-topic and apparently unending, but, in my one-sided arbitrariness, rather than close off the whole thread (because I can see others are still discussing it), I’m only going to delete any further comments you make to it.
Consider this a warning: If you try to take this dispute to other threads, I’ll suspend your privileges and you can take it up with Ryan Pitts, our online high muck-a-muck, on Monday.
Shelala on February 11 at 6:50 p.m.
Ya know Mary, I totally understand what you speak. I never could understand why some female officers tried to emulate the brash and bully aspects of the job in attempting to compete with the men.Some still do I and I just don’t get it. A diverse department benefits in many ways that simply add to the mix. A female officer often has much better communication and verbal skills than her male counterparts. Other minorities bring skills to the table that should be applauded and welcomed. Equality isn’t measured by emulating the attributes in a traditionally male environment. It is by being able to do the job successfully using your own abilities and strengths. I probably couldn’t get a pro wrestler to drop the chair he’s coming at me with by equal force, but I bet I could get the chair out of his hands anyway. The goal’s the same.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 6:54 p.m.
@michaelm
I would hope that you realize that someone is trying to find a way out.
silverlake89 on February 11 at 7:50 p.m.
“However, Assistant U.S. Attorney Timothy Durkin told Van Sickle that Fredericks previously had been hired by Assistant City Attorney Rocky Treppiedi and had given the city exactly the same information…”
So what? 1) Rocky did not and does not represent the defendant in this case. 2) The city wasn’t on trial, KFT was. I hope Durkin has some proof that this information was provided to the defense team. I have to wonder how many hours Treppeidi has spent in the last month looking through all his notes trying to find something that will ultimately help KFT. It’s very possible he’s finally found something (Fredericks).
As a side note….stop picking on GS. If you’re going to get all sensitive about how someone responded to your (alledged) personal life story then quit opening the door.
Shelala on February 11 at 7:53 p.m.
@Brian
I think everyone gets it. Not very good at it.
mary1958 on February 11 at 7:55 p.m.
@ generallyspeaking
YOU tried to take ME apart. “weren’t you fired?….can’t hack it (the job)” when I said to Ethics that he shouldn’t practice as a therapist. That hurt buddy. I may have digressed to explain my value. You want to STEP on people routinely in a nasty manner. Perhaps you get too carried away in defending LE so listen to Michealm. I also must watch myself as you do.
@shelala
I think this thread is on target because the article is about the continuing attempts of a lawyer to get his client, a former officer, off the hook for a crime. People defend Thompson–People don’t defend Thompson–people use logic in defense of Thompson that does not make sense. It is important to understand the police mentality and how much people DON’T know about it. Part of that mentality is about how women are treated, how minorities are treated, etc. This especially can be related to how the mentally ill are treated. Different people see things differently. When I worked at the SPD women and minorities were often vilified in front of me by SOME officers (police mentality here). I was set up to fear their opinions and I can understand trying to please them because as I outlined they can make your life unbearable. These women are scared or maybe brainwashed. Their skills are not valued by the antisocial subversive element that exists there in some pockets. I have known male officers that LIKE to “work up” otherwise calm suspects so that they can fight them into cuffs. I can also understand not wanting to speak out and claim that they (females)ever had anything happen to them that was bad. “If I fail to acknowledge it, it hasn’t happened.” Plus they look like they are a good cop and the woman who speaks out apparently had something wrong with her to be treated badly. Heh. I didn’t understand the power of denial until I watched the movie, “TAPE.” It is not a movie about LE it is about the power of denial. I’m sure you could talk an apple out of it’s skin, Shelala, because I have listened to your reason in posts. I prided myself in talking people into the police car most of the time. I also prided myself in being physically fit enough to fight when I needed to. I told the officer who raped and beat me once a story about how I talked a suspect into the car. A very muscular weight lifting Ofc. was with me and standing behind the suspect who was facing me. The Ofc who raped me said that the suspect was probably “thinking” about the muscular officer and what he would do to him. Maybe so, but there was no fight. Officers like Thompson should be removed but unfortunately we must wait out the legal process.
mary1958 on February 11 at 8:22 p.m.
There you go again. I feel the need to PROVE I wasn’t fired, to PROVE I could HACK the job, to PROVE it was my cup of tea jobwise but that the attitudes of some male officers who seem to be a little cracked was hard to HACK. I waited 21 years to really start voicing my opinion publicly and it was inspired by the little story of Otto the janitor and his experience with the incompetent parts of the SPD. Why don’t you write my e-mail and get your __________ off the blog. I’ll go at it with ya.
Mary1958@netzero.com
By the way your repartee sounds like the officers who work up suspects.
michaelm on February 11 at 8:56 p.m.
GS, it doesn’t matter. You’re suspended from this thread. What kind of moderator/father figure would I be if I caved right after imposing a time-out?
brianrbreen on February 11 at 9:16 p.m.
@Shelala
You got that right!
brianrbreen on February 11 at 9:21 p.m.
@silverlake89
You might want to go back and look at the conflict waiver KT signed.
michaelm on February 11 at 9:23 p.m.
GS: Let it go. This suspension will be until 10 o’clock. After that, you can try for the whole weekend.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 9:51 p.m.
@silverlake89
“ I have to wonder how many hours Treppeidi has spent in the last month looking through all his notes trying to find something that will ultimately help KFT. It’s very possible he’s finally found something (Fredericks).”
I’m sure you must mean hours spent in the last month looking for something that would help KFT in the civil case right? Not the criminal case. I would hope my city tax dollars aren’t going to defend the criminal case, my federal tax dollars already are.
You might also remember that once the conflict issue was brought up Treppiedi agreed the city would butt out entirely from the criminal case.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 9:56 p.m.
@silverlake89
“As a side note….stop picking on GS.”
I certainly will refrain from anything in that regard.
silverlake89 on February 11 at 10:13 p.m.
Brian I’m not sure what the conflict waiver would have to do with this. As far as I know Rocky was not required to make sure CO had everything from Fredericks….that was Durkins responsibility.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 10:21 p.m.
@silverlake89
It was Durkin’s responsibility. I hope he fulfilled it. However if Rocco discovered the possibility that Durkin did not fulfill that responsibility as a member of the bar he himself has a duty to bring that to the attention of the court. So if as you seem to infer Rocco found something in his notes he is obligated to bring it to the attention of the court and not use Fredericks as a surrogate if that is what you are inferring happened.
silverlake89 on February 11 at 10:29 p.m.
Why would he be required to bring it to the attention of the courts? He is not a party to the criminal trial and wasn’t a witness, or potential witness.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 10:32 p.m.
@silverlake89
The conflict waiver that KT signed, acknowledged that he was aware of and approved of CO representing him independently in the criminal case although CO was at the same time representing the city along with Rocco in the civil case.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 10:36 p.m.
@silverlake89
The ethical cannons of his profession require him to bring to the attention of the court misconduct of another lawyer whether he is a party or not, and misconduct is what Fredericks is alleging took place.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 10:40 p.m.
@silverlake89
I have no idea what prompted Fredericks to write a letter to the Court. I’ll tell you this though your inferences fuel the conspiracy flames, not mine but others.
silverlake89 on February 11 at 11:06 p.m.
Brian I think it’s quite a leap from having Rocco breathe a little bug in Fredericks’ ear and actually having hard proof of misconduct against Durkin.
There’s been plenty of accusation against Rocky by DOJ that’s gone nowhere so I assume an accusation of misconduct against Durkin would also be ignored. But I don’t think this technicality is going to be ignored or taken lightly based on previous rulings by VS.
greenlibertarian on February 11 at 11:14 p.m.
Overall a disturbing thread.
I’m TELLING you folks, Fredericks is a WILD CARD!
Google him and see some of the weirdo stuff he’s been involved in.
Thanks for more of your story, [[[[Mary1958]]]].
Peace be with you.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 11:16 p.m.
@silverlake89
Keep in mind the allegation isn’t simply against Durkin it is against every lawyer involved in the case including Boutros, something I’m sure they will take very seriously, and I’m sure Judge Van Sickle has an idea what might be going on, that is why the deposition is sealed. I’m sure Fredericks has been deposed before but he might want to be on his toes in this one.
I don’t like the bug in the ear crap…got a beef have balls enough to do it yourself.
silverlake89 on February 11 at 11:23 p.m.
“I don’t like the bug in the ear crap…got a beef have balls enough to do it yourself.”
Given the history of accusations against Rocky I doubt he worries about having balls. He skates around on ice all the time and never falls through, he doesn’t need balls cuz he’s got brains.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 11:25 p.m.
@silverlake89
I might just add not only be on his toes but also tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. If he doesn’t it might not end up pretty.
greenlibertarian on February 11 at 11:26 p.m.
Oh yeah, major geek cred with a netzero email address.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 11:29 p.m.
@silverlake89
“Given the history of accusations against Rocky I doubt he worries about having balls. He skates around on ice all the time and never falls through, he doesn’t need balls cuz he’s got brains.”
Even guys with lots of brains end up falling through the ice. Know a lot of them that are in Federal Prisons, and I’m not suggesting that is where Rocco belongs.
silverlake89 on February 11 at 11:31 p.m.
Brian, The only way Fredericks can get into trouble here is if he very blatantly lies and intentially tries to miss lead the court, I doubt that is the case here. This sounds to me like a last ditch effort to find a technical reason to get Thompson off. This will come down to perception and whether or not that’s enough to set KFT free.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 11:36 p.m.
@silverlake89
Sure it is a last ditch. The problem is it might have gone a little too far. If this is just some jerk that got his nose bent out of shape because he didn’t get called, that’s one thing. If it is something else that’s another.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 11:44 p.m.
@silverlake89
“he very blatantly lies and intentially tries to miss lead the court,”
Trying to not blatantly lie or to try and give the appearance of not intentionally miss leading the court has resulted in many a guilty verdict, one just recently.
silverlake89 on February 11 at 11:46 p.m.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see but this is all a little too much for me to believe there isn’t a puppet master somewhere pulling strings and orchestrating a major win for the city and KFT.
brianrbreen on February 11 at 11:49 p.m.
@silverlake89
“I have no idea, and probably never will because the dep. is sealed.
generallyspeaking on February 12 at 7:18 a.m.
SPD should sue Mary for her unfounded, unsubstantiated, made up lies about them….But alot of that goes on in here….
lewis8457 on February 12 at 8:00 a.m.
GS by your own request you are being flagged cause your off topic.
Ron thank you for the description of why the police need a warrant.
We can only hope this Fredrick’s is just a small bump in the road and the Klubber will see a prison cell soon.
brianrbreen on February 12 at 8:02 a.m.
@silverlake89
“a puppet master somewhere pulling strings and orchestrating a major win for the city and KFT.”
So far KFT has not won, it remains to be seen if he will win this one or get a new trial. My guess is the reason the City wanted to, or agreed to go to Mediation with the civil case is that they figure KFT isn’t going to get one, so it is time to get it done. I hope the mediation does result in a city park named after Otto Zehm so the community will remember long after the media cycle has run. It looks like some of the things the Zehm family wants might be difficult to mediate because they may require negotiation with the Police Guild might be hard to pull any strings there. I think @mary1958 is spot on when she suggests that it takes considerable study and background to have cops do the therapist thing, but as the Zehm family points out training for the department in dealing with folks who have mental health issues sure wouldn’t hurt.
“Otto Zehm Park” sounds pretty darn good to me, and every time dispatch sends a car to something happening in that park, at least for those officers on the job now, there will be a little click that will go off in their head when it is broadcast over the radio.
generallyspeaking on February 12 at 8:03 a.m.
Lewis…I am commenting on a post above….get over yourself…..hahahahahahahaha
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 12 at 9:34 a.m.
Sounds odd to me.
Is he saying he will testify for the good of those signing his checks for his, (ahem) “professional” opinion?
Now that he wasn’t called to testify he is upset and looking for revenge? Probably not.
As others have eluded to, he probably has someone pulling his strings.
EthicsinLE on February 12 at 9:59 a.m.
@Lewis, I think I got your question, that is if the police see a dead body in a house, will they go in or wait for a search warrant. Sorry, I didn’t have the energy to read all 175+ postings, so I skimmed over them. As I see it, if we see a body, we are allowed to enter under exigent circumstances (For limited purpose though). We can go in to confirm the victim is deceased and not in need of medical attention, that there are no other victims / suspects inside, etc. But, once you determine the scene is secure, no threats to anyone, etc., you must back out and get a warrant or consent, etc.. And I give you credit for applying with the COP. Just keep your mind open and try to understand the LE perspective.
IanJones on February 12 at 10:04 a.m.
Ok folks…..While I tried to read everything on this, While very interesting…..some of it is also a little over my head since I am not familiar with much of the terminology…. unfortunately I don’t have enough time to give it 100% of my attention….So I will just accept whatever the eventual outcome is…..as I hope everyone else will too…..
RIP Otto, and peace to the Thompson family…..
brianrbreen on February 12 at 10:13 a.m.
@Ethics
I agree with both you and Ron with respect to the search warrant issue, and I think it is even more important in Washington State because we do not have a “good faith exception” to the search warrant process, which could end up being a critical issue. Better safe than sorry.
Ron_the_Cop on February 12 at 10:25 a.m.
@Ian,
Understandable you have a real job. All we ask is that you do it fairly, equitably and with common sense. Leave it to us armchair folks to gist the nuances of the Thompson trial. Even us that tend to see conspiracies in the tea leaves e.g., puppet masters.
Just have an open mind and decide for yourself what the real truth is. As in the old FOX TV Show X-FilesTRUST NO ONE. And lastly -
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW - Even Roco Treppiedi
@EthicsinLE,
Don’t forget preservation of evidence too e.g., stuff in the toilet or in more high tech cases isolate on site computers from remote dumping of data.
@Brian,
Do you suppose that Delaney and Treppiedi have snowed Mayor Condon with some hail Mary legal pass that they can pull the City’s and Thompson’s fat out of the fire as the reason he hasn’t kicked their butts out the door yet?
As I said up thread if Mayor Condon hasn’t sought independent expert legal counsel on the whole Thompson matter and he’s relying on Treppiedi’s advice, then he’s destined to be a one-term mayor e.g., Mayor Verner & Chief Kirkpatrick.
brianrbreen on February 12 at 10:51 a.m.
@Ron_the_Cop
My guess is that Rocco was involved in a number of litigations against the City, which are in process (as an example the bridge jumper), and dumping him now would require reassigning the cases and trying to get another lawyer up to speed. So I don’t think it would be hard for Delaney to convince Condon that it would be a good idea to hold off, and I don’t know maybe it is. Condon has several other lawyers providing him input that I would suspect would be the same as Delaney’s regarding dumping Rocco now. Rocco has enough time in to get a pretty good retirement, as does Delaney; I would look for something once desks are cleared.
If Condon wanted Rocco gone all he has to do is get rid of Delaney and put his guy in (if he isn’t there already). It looks to me that the city charter allows the city attorney to pick and remove his people, and the Mayor has the power to pick and remove the City Attorney only.
My opinion is it is all a matter of timing, and not necessarily that Condon doesn’t want it done. The real story is all the lawyers posturing for a position they see coming up.
All of course just a guess on my part.
The_Seer on February 12 at 10:58 a.m.
Fredericks is an attention whore and just pi$$ed off he didn’t get mentioned or called during the trial in order to promote his “business.”
The whole industry of supposed experts employed by the justice system is a joke. It reminds me of the Paul Simon song “The Myth of Fingerprints.”
brianrbreen on February 12 at 11:04 a.m.
@Ron_the_Cop
I personally don’t believe he is relying on Rocco’s advice regarding KT; I would be more inclined to believe he is getting his advice from McDevitt, and Hyslop, after all McDevitt was the US Attorney when it all went down.
I’d be real surprised if Condon hasn’t had a sit down with at a minimum Ormsby, and Rice regarding the Zehm case…pure speculation though.
brianrbreen on February 12 at 11:07 a.m.
@The_Seer
I suppose you also feel the better-looking experts are from California.
The_Seer on February 12 at 11:15 a.m.
I don’t know, BB, do you still have that leisure suit?
brianrbreen on February 12 at 11:17 a.m.
Long Gone! :)
The_Seer on February 12 at 11:26 a.m.
Dang… how about those sideburns and sweet cop stache?
brianrbreen on February 12 at 11:29 a.m.
@The_Seer
Not even the white Pat Boone shoes.
Ron_the_Cop on February 12 at 11:31 a.m.
@Brian,
You could right. If it were me I would fire Delaney and have his replacement fire Treppiedi. Treppiedi is at will to the CA. IMO whatever legal counsel they’re giving isn’t this worth it.
IanJones on February 12 at 11:32 a.m.
Will do Ron…school mostly keeps me tied up…on top of part time job….but hope this all gets resolved in the end….one way or other…both sides deserve finality…..
The_Seer on February 12 at 11:41 a.m.
Rocco knows where ALL the bodies are. He’s not going anywhere.
The_Seer on February 12 at 11:46 a.m.
BB: That’s too bad about the white bucks. I think I remember you saying it was all loaned gear anyway. Did the SPD has some kind of deal going with Hamers when they were still downtown? Or was it The Squire Shop?
brianrbreen on February 12 at 11:49 a.m.
I had to go out and buy my own costume. All the bling, and the show money was borrowed. The hair and stash were mine.
mary1958 on February 12 at 12:27 p.m.
Big T. is an attorney. His job is to protect and defend his client not fix the world. Just the same as the police are to transport ill people to the therapist not be the therapist. He is hired by the Spokane City attorney and so big T’s loyalty and work ethic are geared toward the city. The police are acting out causing victims like Levy and Zehm, etc. The police are part of our big city Spokane but not the whole city. Part of T’s job is to protect the city from lawsuits and having to fork out dough to victims. Maybe we all wish he wasn’t so good at his job because we feel sorry for the victims. I do but I understand that is not his job. What do you want him to do dumb down so victims win? Doubt that’s going to happen. What needs to happen is the faction that is causing the problem needs to be changed and fast. Who would that be–the PD. I would not fire the bulldog that will keep money from going of pockets of Spokane city right now. I would attempt to fix the source of the problem. Maybe T needs to go for his methods–— I don’t have all the info. But right now is not a good time. Catch 22 is a difficult place to be Mayor Condon and I wish you intellect and reason in your journey.
generallyspeaking on February 12 at 12:34 p.m.
@Brian in regards to one of your earlier posts….
@mary1958
I remember because we were trying to figure out some somewhat devious ways to help you out.
WHAT?? You knew about the ALLEGED atrocities against Mary, and you weren’t standing on the hill tops screaming for…demanding reform then? You idly stood by and continued to collect a paycheck from this morally corrupt department?? I think in one of your posts way back when you said the officers that are staying quiet on the KT issues are as bad, if not worse then KT himself…..sounds like the pot calling the kettle black…..
brianrbreen on February 12 at 12:38 p.m.
@GS
I wondered how long that would take you. I’ll let Mary handle that one if she chooses to.
But keep trying…one of these days…you might hit on something.
brianrbreen on February 12 at 12:41 p.m.
@GS
“think in one of your posts way back when you said the officers that are staying quiet on the KT issues are as bad, if not worse then KT himself…..sounds like the pot calling the kettle black…..”
You might go back and look..never said that.
generallyspeaking on February 12 at 12:41 p.m.
Figured you wouldn’t be able to defend that…WHAT Mary didn’t know super cop Brian????? Weird…
generallyspeaking on February 12 at 12:43 p.m.
Nope just saying you stood by idly and did NOTHING….but then again you had to collect a paycheck…so throw ole Mary under the bus…
brianrbreen on February 12 at 12:56 p.m.
@GS
Since you asked…I haven’t the slightest idea how many rape victims I’ve been in involved with during my super cop days and post retirement as an advocate, but it has been a bunch. During that time I learned that many, many times women who were legitimate rape victims don’t want to pursue their case because not only have they been traumatized once they also end up being traumatized by the system which forces them to subject themselves to even more trauma. Now I could get into a long detailed explanation regarding that, but I won’t. I do however appreciate the fact that you allowed me to respond to your post and point out that it isn’t at all easy to be a rape victim…I was kinda hoping you might do that.
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 12 at 1:05 p.m.
That sounds like something I have said, and perhaps a couple others.
I have actually come to see BB as more of an advocate for the PD.
He believes there are good cops, even in their silence.
I on the other hand think they need to fire the lot of them and start from scratch. Also do away with the guild. The city has the means to offer a very nice package to possible new-hires without the guild being involved.
mary1958 on February 12 at 1:13 p.m.
Well, I said for GS to go to my website to argue with me but I guess if he’s going to attempt a smattering of empathy then I’ll respond. I’ve said before on other opinion letters that the “code of silence” is a very REAL phenomenon. It was written on the police academy wall when I went through. Don’t rat on another officer because you may be in a situation that you need covering for so watch out. Really what this means is if you get in another officers face about what they do they might find a way to get even with you. The police have A LOT of power. Brian probably said, “devious way” because a direct way might cause a response to his world he might not like. Also Brian did not know me and was giving advice to a man who felt sorry for my plight. Certainly JJ would not want any repercussions so Brian would look at “devious ways.” Also neither man had any direct evidence in my favor. (I don’t think) To not bring that forward would be a violation but Brian has hearsay of what might have happened to me and JJ listens to me but has no direct evidence himself. If one of them had heard the officer confess who gave me an obscene phone call, for example, and did not bring that forward–that officer would be morally ill. On the tape we all can see Otto Zehm and his problem with Thompson. The officers involved with saying that Thompson did nothing wrong are astoundingly insufficient and morally wrong. JJ did offer to come with me to a department and speak on my behalf in order to get me another job. He was retiring and nothing would probably happen to him. But I was doing research on the attitudes of men toward women in LE and had received the results back from my inquiry. This was a common problem across LE at the time. I did apply to another department and when the man called and said we would love to hire you and all your training but you filed bankruptcy, I didn’t say, “Well I filed because I didn’t know if I would ever have another job and would be willing to reverse it if hired and oh by the way I have a good reference from the detective’s office”–––I didn’t say that because I knew, from my research, that I might be stepping into something worse and I didn’t have the strength mentally any more. I said, “thank you anyway and goodbye.” That department was hiring laterally because their dept. had physical tests that were so high that no woman could pass it.
brianrbreen on February 12 at 1:21 p.m.
@Mary1958
“The police have A LOT of power. Brian probably said, “devious way” because a direct way might cause a response to his world he might not like.”
Wouldn’t have bothered me in the least. If I remember correctly we were trying to figure out how to come up with some evidence, legally, but surreptitiously, perhaps “devious” was a poor term.
mary1958 on February 12 at 1:39 p.m.
Only he and I were on that date so I know no one has evidence. You could not possibly have any evidence unless you heard a confession. This guy is not that dumb to brag in front of a detective. You are right about rape victims and trauma. It was better for my mind to try to ignore (repress) it as ludicrous as that sounds. At his house he had a visitor who came out at the end when he had me pinned to the ground sitting on me holding my arms over my head. She said, “oh are you dating him, too?” I said, “yes” then I told him to get off me which he did and I left. I never spoke to him again. I didn’t make a complaint about that because she could have said she saw something she didn’t to protect him.
Shelala on February 12 at 2:10 p.m.
How’s this for an idea. Let the city create a new department. Let’s call it something like Spokane Public Protection Agency. to replace and disband the SPD. Ta Da - no guild, no bad officers (their position is no longer available) and we start from scratch. Think of it - a public utopia where employees play by the rules, the city can hire, train and discipline the ranks and the public has actual input.. Oh the possibilities! I know I am dreaming, but it worked for AIG didn’t it?
mary1958 on February 12 at 2:27 p.m.
I’d push a “LIKE” button if there was one on your post.
EthicsinLE on February 12 at 3:58 p.m.
Mary, since you’ve made some serious allegations against a department and officers, I have some questions. I have a hard time believing if what you say is true it was not handled appropriately. 1) was there a criminal investigation and were any charges filed? 2). did you file a civil suit and what was the outcome? 3). what did the ia investigation conclude? 4). is this the same mary who’s husband was arrested by the sheriffs office?
Ron_the_Cop on February 12 at 4:01 p.m.
@Mary,
I disagree re Mr. T. Yes his job is to try to minimize liability to the City but it’s another to cover-up criminal activity. IMO there are plenty of his fingerprints on the Ross fire house sex scandal, the Mehring and Havey cases and the little deal with editing the Zehm video tape sanctioned by Deputy Chief Odenthal and Mr. T telling Chief Nicks there wasn’t anything of value in the other views that were edited out.
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 12 at 4:40 p.m.
Does Mr T. stand for Mr Teflon?
Nothing seems to stick to this guy.
generallyspeaking on February 12 at 4:44 p.m.
the more Mary talks the more unbelievable she is….always has an excuse and always someone else’s fault….brian might not known of the alleged rape…heck even Mary forgot about it….but surely he must of known how harassed she was….it’s not a huge dept and guys talk….Yet he didn’t speak up and demand change for how the women were being treated….Oh ya he picked the paycheck over the atrocities….Hmm…
brianrbreen on February 12 at 4:52 p.m.
@Ethics
If a rape victim comes to you, and says I’ve been raped. But I don’t want to make a police report because I don’t want people to find out about it. I work with the suspect and it would cause all kinds of problems. I don’t have any evidence other than my word against his because it was a date rape. I don’t want to be subjected to interviews by a bunch of people about what happened. I want to try and just forget it if I can. What would you do?
Would you think she was lying because she didn’t want it pursued?
Would you think that maybe she got too drunk on the date and went along with it?
Would you think that she is trying to hide something and this is just an excuse to get out of it?
Would you think she was just trying to get even with the suspect?
Would you think maybe she was looking for a way to sue the guy?
brianrbreen on February 12 at 4:57 p.m.
@GS
You got it slick, I was the biggest CS on the department…just sat back collected the big bucks and kept my mouth shut. There is no question you have me pegged….good job.
brianrbreen on February 12 at 5:10 p.m.
Then of course there is my all time favorite; “You know young lady if you hadn’t been dressed like that it never would have happened”.
brianrbreen on February 12 at 5:16 p.m.
Come to think of it there is a very popular media person here in Spokane that didn’t report her rape to the police for some time for a lot of reasons. Later told her story in public, and my understanding is after she did, it helped her to heal.
Might want to talk to her.
silverlake89 on February 12 at 5:20 p.m.
When is the deposition suppose to happen? I don’t think I’ve seen a date set yet.
brianrbreen on February 12 at 5:21 p.m.
ASAP, whenever that is.
mary1958 on February 12 at 6:20 p.m.
@ Ethics
Its none of your business who my husbands were but since you want to link me to a bad person I guess I’ll have to tell you. My last husband and I divorced in 1990 when I was a police officer. We had separated in 1987. He has not at any time ever been arrested to the best of my knowledge and was not, the last time I experienced him, someone who would EVER be arrested. He is Eldon W. Brown of the engineering department in Spokane City. I hope he is not unhappy with my mentioning his name. Just for the record, I don’t think it makes me a better person to have been married to Eldon twenty years ago instead of the arrested so called husband either. Wow, what a cop you are Ethics–—I’m impressed.
Criminal investigation, IA–––—you must be kidding. So I didn’t come forward then and that states that I am a liar? I don’t care if you don’t believe me. I’m used to it. I told one of my so called friends at the time after I had visited the police shrink and he told me I had been raped. She ignored me. I was afraid that they would find a way to protect him by drumming up evidence and twisting facts and then I would find myself in the klink much less without a job. Have you read the story about Bambi Bembenek? You don’t know what it’s like to be a victim of a cop trying to get a cop in trouble –-I was too scared to attempt. Funny how I was afraid of the cops and not the bad guys. Also the shame was an issue. Brian knows what rape victims have to deal with on top of that. There was an officer and I in a truck and he violated me. Victims repress such things in order to survive mentally. Don’t you think I know how that would look if I TRIED considering I continued to see him. I would be laughed at. Go ahead and laugh but I was never the same and I am in my own head just thank God you don’t have my memories. Penetration no matter how slight, against a person’s will, with any object is third degree rape, He also brought along his Glock although he did not point it at my head. I felt instant violation and shame. I thought I would be safe on a date with him so I went to a remote location. As far as being pummeled by this black belt in judo at his home, I told you that the woman there would probably lie to get him out of trouble. Why try?
IA. Oh now there is another stellar part of the PD. I remember filing a complaint against the supervisor who bullied me. I never mentioned “sexual harassment” but that is what they titled my complaint. I was in absolute shock when I got a typed copy and saw the title. I was still a little naive so I reasoned that I had never read the statute so maybe some part of it referred to what I was complaining about. I realized three years after I left that they must have titled it that to get him off. I did manage to get placed on another team.
Have you read the book, “Behind the Badge; A Police Woman’s Ordeal” by Corliss Morris. You should.
I have not mentioned names. I have not filed a law suit and I never will. Who would pay if I won by remote chance? It would not be anyone that should. I will continue to speak and if anyone wants to line up to sue me for the small amount of equity I have in my house –-come on bully!
Maybe things are different there then they were twenty years ago but I doubt it. I think you are putting out a lure to keep me talking. Okay.
generallyspeaking on February 12 at 6:48 p.m.
Pretty sure the media person didn’t date Coe after she was raped….Mary invited me to talk to her on her site?? Like I said….no way in H***…she might accuse me of something whether its 21 years from now, or immediately, but I will pass….
Hmmm another women Mary’s rapist was dating was there and saw him physically assault her on his front porch….yet Mary didn’t report that either, because the witness might have turned it around and said she saw something she didn’t see backing up the male officer’s version of events…..It couldn’t possibly be that Mary caught her man cheating on her and picked a fight she lost… .Yup….everyone but Mary is the liar….I see….
She even had to “shop” therapists until she found the one that had to “tell” her she was raped……Hmmm…sounds like someone doesn’t have very good decision making skills….THAT couldn’t possibly be why she couldn’t make it as a cop could it???
generallyspeaking on February 12 at 6:50 p.m.
and Mary apparently it is Ethics business…..when you put your ALLEGED life story on a public site….you kinda make it other peoples business…..
mary1958 on February 12 at 7:04 p.m.
Your good GS and Ethics–I gotta give you credit. My final answer: Mary1958@netzero.com
Come see me there!
brianrbreen on February 12 at 7:21 p.m.
Hey Mary…I would just let it go…besides you are kind of spoiling my fun. :)
brianrbreen on February 12 at 7:37 p.m.
Mary it is kinda like baseball, some people dream of making it to the Major Leagues, but can’t make it out of the sandlot.
mary1958 on February 12 at 7:44 p.m.
Antisocial Personality Disorder:
Long standing disregard for the rights of others
Lack of Empathy
Callous
Cynical
Contemptuous of feelings, rights and sufferings of others
Inflated arrogant self appraisal
Excessively opinionated
Self-assured, cocky
Glib, superficial charm
Verbally facile
Lying, Deceitful
Impulsive
Irritable, aggressive
Reckless disregard for the safety, person of another
Irresponsibility
Lack of remorse
I get tired of banter with these types, Brian, I would just rather arrest them. With no audience they have no one to perform for.
brianrbreen on February 12 at 7:55 p.m.
Well Mary that wasn’t very helpful, now our friend GS is going to ask you why you were describing me…I just got there first.
generallyspeaking on February 12 at 7:55 p.m.
You can’t arrest anyone Mary…you’re not a cop anymore….or did you forget that too? My advice to any dude is…Don’t be alone with Mary….you don’t know what she might conjure up…..
mary1958 on February 12 at 8:22 p.m.
Mary1958@netzero.com
silverlake89 on February 12 at 10:32 p.m.
I’m betting it will be the end of this week. I’ve been reading up on Fredericks and frankly i can easily see this going in Thompsons favour. I hope I’m wrong but given what is at stake for Fredericks I don’t believe he would have come forward without 1) some prompting and 2) something he feels has a good chance of persuading Van Sickle.
Although I think a lot of his analysis’ are poppycock (based on what ive read) I also think a lot of people buy into it, including the FBI, judges, prosecutors, and trial attnys.
The results of his statement can’t come fast enough for me.
Ron_the_Cop on February 12 at 11:04 p.m.
Silverlake89,
You’re forgetting all the other testimony. The human factors expert, Dr.Gill, is hugely more qualified to testify to the baton strikes from Fredericks’ stills than Frederick himself. Nothing hidden from the defense and the defense called their own expert that said essentially the same thing as Fredericks would have.
silverlake89 on February 12 at 11:39 p.m.
I hope you are right, have a good night.
brianrbreen on February 13 at 6:58 a.m.
@silverlake89
If there were prosecutorial misconduct than the following AUSAs would have had to be involved in a conspiracy to do so. Tom Rice, Victor Boutros, Aine Ahmed, and Tim Durkin. I find it difficult to belive all four got together and decided to withhold discovery to try and make the case. Tom Rice who at the time was being vetted for an appointment to the Federal Bench, and likely will be a Federal Judge soon would have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Victor Boutros would likely be booted from the DC CR Division job he has, and Ahmed and Durkin would lose all credibility with local Federal Judges. It just wouldn’t make since to me that they would jeopardize the case by conspiring to with hold Brady material. But if they did Thompson should get a new trial.
If they didn’t and as you suggest someone was pulling Fredericks strings, and it comes out in the deposition that it was a lawyer, I bet they wouldn’t want to try a future case in front of Tom Rice when he takes the bench or Judge Van sickle for that matter. By the same token if it didn’t happen I doubt Fredericks would carry much weight in a bench trial in front of Rice or Van Sickle in the future. He has likely already lost any chance of getting a Federal Contract in the future, but his work was primarily defense work, among other things anyway.
I can’t see this going in Thompson’s favor unless there is something beyond what appears only to be an allegation that the DOJ misrepresented his anticipated testimony in a proffer a year or so prior to trial.
You suggest the deposition might be at the end of the week, and you could be right, but look at how long it took Fredericks and his attorney to respond to Tom Rice when the DOJ requested specifics regarding his allegation…so it could be longer.
Even though you have been reading up on Fredericks, I would be willing to bet the DOJ has considerably more information regarding him than is available in the public domain.
If as you suggest Fredericks is merely a puppet, it certainly doesn’t say much about his credibility does it.
It could be a big deal…or it could be much ado about nothing…or it could be someone trying to make much ado that will backfire.
generallyspeaking on February 13 at 7:52 a.m.
If there were prosecutorial misconduct than the following AUSAs would have had to be involved in a conspiracy to do so. Tom Rice, Victor Boutros, Aine Ahmed, and Tim Durkin. I find it difficult to belive all four got together and decided to withhold discovery to try and make the case.
BUT you sooo easily believe that numerous officers on the SPD, as well as the mayor, and lawyers were in a huge conspiracy…..hmmmm…
brianrbreen on February 13 at 8:05 a.m.
@GS
Again… that wouldn’t be me…never said that. But keep trying you might get there one of these days.
How is life treating ya these days since you got back from the warm climate?
lewis8457 on February 13 at 8:21 a.m.
thank you ethics,
Mary I know of what you speak a friend years ago was raped at 18 year old the circus the police made her go through was heart wrenching. She had to tell he story numerous times her father finally called it off after one of the detectives told him she was lying. even though they had a semen sample. She named her rapist but he was never brought in for questioning, it was like the whole complaint was treated like she lied to get attention.
Sadly some men like GS think women are nothing but a carnival ride.
I apologize for the egg heads who treat you the same, and GS doesn’t have the guts to contact you he needs a audience.
brianrbreen on February 13 at 8:21 a.m.
@GS
Were you looking for something like this?
brianrbreen on January 30 at 12:04 p.m.
Ron_the_Cop
I’m not willing to go the, far-reaching deep conspiracy theory. I will however go with the lack of management, supervision, and accountability theory. I’m pretty sure I’d have a lot easier time proving mine than you would yours.
brianrbreen on February 13 at 8:36 a.m.
@Lewis
Don’t tack a worry on it…remember…GS is afraid to contact Mary, and even said so. Probably for the same reason GS is afraid to call me…fearing it would be a set up or something. You just have to accept some folks for what they are, and not let it bother you.
generallyspeaking on February 13 at 9:27 a.m.
You want me to call you?? WHY the H*** would I do THAT??? Like I said….Not talking to Mary without witnesses…who KNOWS what she might claim…..BUT lets keep on track here guys….Dont want Michaelm the king of censorship to get all upset…..or an ulcer
The_Seer on February 13 at 9:55 a.m.
It takes tons of courage for a man on a computer to degrade a rape victim. I wonder if he’d say the same things to his mother, wife, sister, daughter if the same happened to them. With the level of empathy he’s displayed on this thread I doubt it.
justgrammaagain/generallyspeaking is such a tough guy. I’m very impressed with who he decides to attack. You’d think he’d tire of being owned by the likes of brian and ron.
generallyspeaking on February 13 at 10:17 a.m.
ALLEGED victim…no proof, no reports, no witnesses…heck she didn’t even tell anyone about it until her “therapist” told her she was “raped”…..AND she kept going back for MORE….and “21” years later she comes up with all of this…
Keep on the thread…..you don’t want a warning from michaelm…
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 13 at 10:24 a.m.
Yes one would tend to think that way. But yet……
…..it goes on and on and………
I might have to “Pity the Poor Fool” as Mr T. says
The_Seer on February 13 at 10:28 a.m.
generallyanarse: What would Mary’s motivation to lie be, Sherlock? It doesn’t matter if it is “alleged” or not, you are being a d-bag for picking on women. It is most unmanly. Would your father approve of such behavior? Did he teach you how to treat women like this? Did he badger your mother into near catatonia?
brianrbreen on February 13 at 10:56 a.m.
@GS
Good point let’s stay on topic! What do you think, DOJ conspiracy to screw KT and the SPD by with holding discovery and threatening and intimidating witnesses?
Heck as far as the phone call is concerned I understand…but keep in mind…you got the inside scoop on where all my psychological problems began…remember (see below). You took the time to find out my wife’s name and tried to post it…it got deleted I wish it had not been but that’s okay. I thought maybe if you called I could fill you in on some other stuff and then you could check it out…you know like my irrelevant police career, my gutlessness in not standing up for what I thought was wrong on the SPD. My kid’s names and their background, anything you wanted to know I would tell you then you could check it out. Heck if you want all my background including my SPD PAR evaluations, my personnel file, the cases I’ve worked in Spokane and elsewhere they are yours and I’ve got copies of those (needed them for court testimony on the dark side), I’ll give you copies of all. Heck I’ll even give you my High School annual if you want so you can copy it, I think the only thing available on line is my Frosh Football photo. Not sure my Annual would help you below though.
I’m pretty much an open book; if you are afraid to take advantage of my offer…I’m not sure what to say.
BTW: I can’t remember the cases, I’d have to go back and look and a lot of my stuff that is in storage, but I have qualified in court as an expert witness regarding Rape Victims and the Investigation of Rape cases. The quickest route though if you want to check it out is to call Lutheran Social Services and ask them, the number is in the book.
Look I understand your dilemma, it is hard sometimes to take on your real adversary head on you might lose, so the best thing to do is to try attack those on the periphery.
generallyspeaking on January 14 at 11:03 a.m.
@Brian….everything is NOT about you….however, since you chimed in….interestingly enough….in a conversation I was having recently with someone about the posters on SR…I met an old classmate of yours…..OMG…I have NEVER laughed SO hard at the things I was told….NOW things ALL make sense…..apparently what a tool you were in school….i guess some things never change….just a poor fat kid, who was always the last one picked…
BTW: I’m glad you went back and reviewed the posts when you got back from the warmer climate, at least you got my phone number. Being as old and slow as I am I can’t keep track of who I gave it to. Wasn’t sure if it was the student with a part time job, or the insurance biller who knew all about HIPPA, and who knew about the bridge jumper and other things.
Ron_the_Cop on February 13 at 11:24 a.m.
@Brian,
You know me:-)
As former S-R Editor Steve Smith ridiculed me and cast me in with the likes of other conspiracy theorists, wackos, nutcases and the little green men from Mars e.g., former Sheriff Tony Bamonte, former Mayor John Talbott, former Councilperson Cherie Rodgers, reporters Tom Grant, Tim Connor and Larry Shook and others, I do tend to see things differently.
If it were just the Zehm case I would be inclined to go along with your assessment. HOWEVER there is clear pattern and practice over many years of the City Attorney’s Office of condoning, being complicit in, and or sanctioning unethical legal practices and or outright illegal activity. Of course what do I know:-)
Anyone wishing to explore further this Alice in Wonderland World need only begin here to go down this rabbit hole:
Spokane’s Anarchist Mayor
http://tinyurl.com/48qh6et
Being a student of Spokane politics and Spokane Nice please humor me if I see things that go beyond ineptness and incompetence to actual specific intent to commit criminal acts to cover-up illegal acts by other City officials, police and fire et al.
If I were the case agent you can bet your bottom dollar I would be on this like stink on poop. There would be many forensic computer search warrants for governmental servers and personal computers and smart phones. I would give no quarter to anyone and would roll the lower functionaries using a grand jury to rat out the puppet masters.
BTW I would be watching this latest move on the electronic parking meters that the City doesn’t go underwater with the vender supplying them. This would be bad as the current parking meter revenue of $2M is going through the general fund to pay for the new bonds that were issued to pay of the first defrauded bondholders in the RPS bond frauds that stuck the Spokane taxpayers for a cool $87M. BTW some of the usual suspects were involved in a similar bond deal in Wenatchee where their event center is now going bust.
Mind you Mr. Ormsby and Mr. McDevitt have issues with the RPS bond frauds. I would hope their advice to Mr. Condon would not be tainted by any potential bullying by the City Attorney’s Office. See this email from Larry Shook on the Wenatchee center going bust:
@MichaelM
Sorry in advance Mr. Pitts doesn’t share my opinion of the reporting work of Tim Connor and Larry Shook. After all they did win a national award from Society of Professional Journalists for for independent, online investigative reporting for their work.
Ron_the_Cop on February 13 at 11:27 a.m.
Why does this all matter for the working stiffs in Spokane and the taxpayers?
Read this summary piece from the Spokane Economics and Demographics Data blog that goes counter to the rosy outlook of the economic growth in Spokane by S-R Editor Gary Graham in Sunday’s paper http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/feb/12/where-do-we-go-from-here/.
I’m not an Occupy Wall Street person but many of the problems in Spokane can be linked to legacy wealth holders pursuing their own special interests with co-opted sheepdogs that are not protecting the flock to the detriment of the taxpayers that causes the prevailing wages in Spokane to be so low.
“Spokane is a great place….Things are good in Spokane.”
http://tinyurl.com/7r5kpmz
Just say’n though:-)
generallyspeaking on February 13 at 11:41 a.m.
@Seer….not picking on her….she put the wild story on this thread for everyone to see….just pointing out all the holes in her allegations…
@Brian…wow sounds like someone got under your skin……
brianrbreen on February 13 at 11:51 a.m.
@GS
I do have to apologize to @Ethics; I think I may have taken advantage. I read it as more of a protective mode for cops who can do no wrong, not necessarily a case of not wanting to believe rape victims. I would remind @Ethics, and maybe something @Ethics didn’t know. The SPD has had an officer who used a ski mask to hide his identity and did a number of stranger-to-stranger rapes. The SPD had a Sergeant who was convicted of the rape of a delayed victim he met at a COPS station, and was accused the same thing with other victims. The SPD had a cop who was perhaps the best at finding stolen cars ended up being charged with and doing time for Child Molestation.
I don’t blame @Ethics for being in an environment where the culture is to protect your own, I only blame @Ethics for not taking the time to put aside the idea that cops are the best…they aren’t… most are but… when some one tells you they are not don’t just dismiss it.
Hendren obviously, a new class is in order.
brianrbreen on February 13 at 12:02 p.m.
@Brian…wow sounds like someone got under your skin……
Gee I’m not quite sure how to address that…it may be a case of someone getting under my skin… or it could be a case of me getting under someone else’s skin…not sure what do you think?
lewis8457 on February 13 at 12:24 p.m.
Gs I wonder what your employer would say since you said you are a medical claims adjuster I wonder if he knows you lack any knowledge of people skills, and hate women? I pity the people you deny for overage most likely good honest people trying to get claims paid by their insurance company.
Why would any lady lie about being raped? It is such a degrading act.
To even say she is lying shows how ignorant you really are, and down right uncaring I just cant help but wonder what your employer WILL say.
Any idea Brian or Ron when Fredrick’s is taking the stand? Once that circus is done can we expect Karl to get sentenced?
Oh GS by the way Michaelm isn’t flagging you I am, hahahaha
Brian I am not worried bout GS i think he is a sad disgusting tiny man, he didn’t even have the guts to go to the cop shop, too bad they were waiting for him.
brianrbreen on February 13 at 12:39 p.m.
@GS
Just pure speculation on my part…but I think perhaps your beef is with me and me alone. My problem is your inability to limit it to me speaks volumes. If I were correct in that regard, and I along with others have hurt the Zehm Family I would hope you would point it out. By the same token if you are willing to go ahead and try again to complete your mission I’m willing to address whatever issue you might want to bring up without spanking you again, and just being upfront.
lewis8457 on February 13 at 12:42 p.m.
GS what percentage of medical claims you deny are made by women? 100%
brianrbreen on February 13 at 12:50 p.m.
@GS
Okay…Okay…I admit it you got under my skin because you went after other people on this blog instead of taking me on head on. But I do understand that… and I must admit it did get under my skin…so there you go.
brianrbreen on February 13 at 1:35 p.m.
@Lewis
Please leave it alone. Let us see whether or not @GS has the where with all to take me on head on, or if GS would prefer to try and deflect to other people.
GS, I know you got it but here is my number again 701-2382, I give you permission publicly to record the call so there is no question regarding what was said, I have no idea how it could be a set up. You could even preface the tape with the warning if you were concerned and I would say it was okay. If you are worried about me getting your phone number and tracing it, go to one of the few pay phones around, or get one of those disposable phones. I really don’t care.
I understand why you wouldn’t want to email Mary then she would have your IP address, I don’t need it. Here is an opportunity for you to give me a call under what ever conditions you want, not a problem for me…how about you. I generally turn my phone off about 10:00 before I go to bed. But I’m more than willing to leave it on if you want.
I was impressed by the fact that the last time I posted my number for you other people respected my privacy…but you are on if you have something to say to me, or if there is something else you want, here is your opportunity.
lewis8457 on February 13 at 2:15 p.m.
OK Brian as you wish,
generallyspeaking on February 13 at 5:06 p.m.
@Brian….once again WHY would I call you….as if anything you say holds any weight? Trust me….im not afraid to go head to head with you…..Your just fulll of hot air….you are not of significance to me, or really anyone else for that matter….WHAT I do find hilarious is that you cant STAND when I ignore your posts…..under MY skin? Ya…..not sooo much….I just think you’re a bafoon…..
brianrbreen on February 13 at 5:37 p.m.
@GS
Does that mean I don’t have to keep my phone on after 10:00?
brianrbreen on February 13 at 5:53 p.m.
@Lewis
See how easy that was to demonstrate exactly what someone is without having to call them names or make any threats or anything near that. It is kind of enjoyable watching that isn’t it.
@michaelm
Thank you for not banning GS, any questions any one would have had are now completely answered.
brianrbreen on February 13 at 6:08 p.m.
@Lewis
Just a reminder, it is just like a child, once you have spanked them and they run to their room…you ignore them and just let them stew…hoping some day they grow up.
michaelm on February 13 at 6:13 p.m.
Sometimes it’s best to just sit back and watch …
generallyspeaking on February 13 at 6:15 p.m.
I know exactly what you are talking about Brian….I ignore your posts for a few hours and you keep posting things to me when I don’t respond….drives ya NUTS apparently……just like I go on a lil vacation for a couple of weeks and you CANT stop talking about me……You just can’t seem to get me out of your mind….or out from under your skin……Like a little kid throwing a tantrum when you dont get attention….HILARIOUS!!!
brianrbreen on February 13 at 6:15 p.m.
That it is sir! :)
Shelala on February 13 at 7:28 p.m.
Quite the little “whatever the heck you want to call it” exchange involving GS and Brian. My wrist is sore from the scrolling it takes to see who has the last word. May I call your attention to a new article recently posted by the SR involving the Seattle officer? I tell ya, sometimes it is just like Christmas.
generallyspeaking on February 13 at 9:10 p.m.
Still whining about the wristband money I see…..WHY don’t you stop being so LAZY and ask them to disclose the information…OR do the proper research and find out on your own……I am sure they would disclose it if you go thru the proper channels….IF you would do that then you could stop your whining and crying…..
michaelm on February 17 at 2:48 p.m.
OK, back by (a relative degree of) popular demand! The comment section for this thread is open again.
Please keep it civil.
Ron_the_Cop on February 17 at 4:00 p.m.
@Michael,
Thx.