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January 7, 2012 in City
Tucker recall effort tossed
Visiting judge rules; Sullivan ‘OK’ with it
A recall petition against Spokane County Prosecuting Attorney Steve Tucker was dismissed on Friday by a visiting Superior Court judge.
Judge Craig Matheson, of Benton and Franklin counties, said four recall charges drafted by Shannon Sullivan were insufficient and that one of the four lacked a basis of knowledge.
“I’m very relieved,” Tucker said after the hearing.
Sullivan, who successfully brought a recall against the late Spokane Mayor Jim West in 2005, has 15 days to file an appeal with the state Supreme Court, though she said she was unsure whether she would do so.
“I’m OK with the decision,” said Sullivan, who represented herself on Friday.
Several of Sullivan’s supporters were in the courtroom along with county officials and attorneys interested in the case.
Tucker was represented by Tacoma attorney Mark Hood, who successfully defended Pierce County Prosecuting Attorney Mark Lindquist in a 2010 recall attempt.
Spokane County’s insurance carrier is expected to be billed for Hood’s fees.
The first of Sullivan’s charges involved an alleged campaign promise by Tucker in 2006 that he would not prosecute public employees. The allegation was based on a statement by a former Spokane City Council member who attended the meeting where Tucker spoke.
Matheson said Sullivan failed to show sufficient knowledge to make the charge and that there was no showing that Tucker violated his duty or intended to violate any law. He also pointed out that Tucker has been re-elected twice since that campaign appearance.
Two other allegations stemmed from Tucker’s failure to file charges against former Spokane firefighter Daniel Ross in a firehouse sex scandal involving a 16-year-old girl and failure to prosecute several Spokane police officers involved in the March 18, 2006, fatal confrontation with Otto Zehm in a North Side convenience store.
During his ruling, Matheson said that Tucker has exercised prosecutorial discretion in his handling of the Ross and Zehm cases under the power granted to him by state law.
The judge said he realizes the death of Zehm is “particularly sensitive,” but Tucker has the authority to defer any action until a federal investigation and criminal case against Thompson is completed.
The U.S. Justice Department won a federal conviction last November against Officer Karl Thompson for excessive use of force and lying to cover up the crime following an FBI investigation into the Zehm case.
Tucker has said that he was deferring any action by his office until the federal case is completed.
He reiterated that position after Friday’s hearing and said he has still not received reports from the FBI. Thompson is awaiting sentencing, and his lawyers are seeking a new trial.
A fourth allegation involved Tucker’s recent refusal to appear before a District Court judge in a plea bargain of an assault case.
Matheson said Tucker’s decision to send a deputy prosecutor is authorized by law.
The ballot synopsis written by a state assistant attorney general was changed by Matheson on a pair of issues to reflect evidence presented at Friday’s hearing, he said. That synopsis would only be used if Matheson is overruled on an appeal.
Matheson heard arguments for about two hours in the morning and then issued his decision and findings late in the afternoon.
He denied a motion by Hood to seek reimbursement for attorney fees from Sullivan. Matheson said recall is a political process that requires accessibility to the courts by petitioners.
Returning farmland to a state of nature 
lewis8457 on January 07 at 8:00 a.m.
i am surprised tucker showed up for his own trial, back to the Globe for more alcohol.
Byrdie714 on January 07 at 8:08 a.m.
I doubt that people will be voting for him again in the next election.
paddleboard9 on January 07 at 8:39 a.m.
Just another piece of the cover up pie. The city government and the local police do not care about the voters and people of Spokane. The cover up of the murder of Otto Zehm should have the former mayor, police chief and half the police force doing a perp walk.
brianrbreen on January 07 at 8:41 a.m.
@Ron_the_Cop
I just think it is important to understand that the system has spoken; any efforts beyond this level would be very foolish. Al_Loysius is right had there been something there, a number of lawyers in this town would have jumped on it. But that doesn’t mean that anyone should hold it against you or Ms Sullivan for legally doing what you felt was right.
I like Steve Tucker, as a person, not as a prosecutor, and I too disagree with his decisions sometimes but as has been pointed out prosecutorial discretion is somewhat limitless, and that’s the way are system is, with good reason I might add.
I think it is important to remember the old adage “garbage in garbage out”. In the Zehm case he and Driscoll got garbage, my criticism (which I’m allowed to do) is that there was far too much faith on the prosecutors part on what was being fed to them, and in my view that has happened more then a few times.
I disagree with DPA regarding the Ross case I feel it should have been farmed out for review of the felony and the misdemeanor as lesser included. The Spokane County Prosecutor does in fact have jurisdiction in misdemeanor cases. I don’t believe there was any criminal conduct on the part of the officers because of the intent element and I’m sure that would have been the finding by an independent prosecutor (I know 20/20).
Tucker’s office has in fact charged a number of officers, and I would disagree with the way some of the cases were handled (I get to do that). IMO Jay Mehring never should have been charged, far too much conflicting evidence. I also don’t believe Jeff Harvey should have been charged, it was a swearing contest with evidence supporting Harvey’s position. Those cases are where prosecutorial discretion should have come into play and the hit from the public out cry should have been taken. That might sound dumb to those that support police oversight, as I do, but in both cases had there not been a jury decision the position of the police department would have been considerably stronger from the standpoint of disciplinary action, and a prosecutor in using his/her discretion must consider how those decisions affect the entire community. Jay Mehring would have received his job back even without the verdict. The verdict in the Harvey case though not definitive has provided Harvey with ammo he never would have had. The problem as I see it in that regard is the lack of real strong communication between the prosecutor and law enforcement, especially when it comes to issues involving officers. In the Jay Olsen case the decision not to call the witnesses to rebut the 911 Supervisor was a big mistake, and it would be pretty hard for anyone to honestly dispute that.
One of the biggest players in police oversight is the prosecutor, and I hope Steve now realizes, like it or not, he has to be involved.
With regards to the issue of not showing up in court, having been somewhat of an insider for a number of years and as I have previously mentioned, that whole situation in my view goes far beyond what was reported in the press. As I have said previously, I would never sit with a prosecutor and advocate for a client unless I truly believed that some kind of a deal was in the best interest of the entire system not just the client, deals are the lawyer’s job. But on the rare occasion I did in Spokane, and sat across from Tucker, each and every time he listened, we discussed it, and he always left the decision with his deputy. So I believe there was far more to that whole issue then what we know, and I’m sure DPA knows where I’m coming from.
If people think this post is in defense of Steve Tucker they are wrong, I’m only tying to add some of what I believe is fair perspective, and at the same time some criticism. I get to do that now.
The_Seer on January 07 at 9:47 a.m.
The notion of “prosecutorial discretion” means an unending war waged by law enforcement on the poor while those who commit the most socially damaging crimes roam free.
The whole idea of having to beg a court to recall an elected official is undemocratic. Why can’t we just say we don’t like you anymore because we don’t feel you reflect the values of our community and want to remove you from office? Elected officials serve at our caprice, not at the will of the courts. And I really love that an officer of the court is the one who gets to decide if another officer of the court will be held to public scrutiny.
Ron_the_Cop on January 07 at 10:43 a.m.
Brian,
Thanks for your excellent analysis with which I do agree. Also I noticed your dropped your ah sucks persona:-) Our discussions here are very informative to the citizens who don’t have the insiders insights that we do. These are the discussions that are very necessary in this new public square to directly to educate the public when our media has trouble doing so.
See my comment I just posted in reply to DPA in the other thread. I will differ with you on once aspect re prosecutorial discretion that I disagree and will post later on this as I promised DPA I will do.
Again thanks for your insight and wisdom. This is how be can bring about the real change that is necessary in our local government.
Here’s the older thread with my last comment:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/jan/06/tucker-recall-petition-headed-court-today/?comments#c393417
liveinfearoftheSPD on January 07 at 11:07 a.m.
How is it that Tucker can perjure himself in court and nothing is done?
Oh that’s right, they all have discretion on who to charge.
Justice my arse!
If you want to kill someone in Spokane, be sure to get a job with the city first so Tucker will turn his head.
Shelala on January 07 at 11:10 a.m.
IMO, Nothing was really won or lost during the hearing. The fact that Tucker prevailed in defending himself against a recall does not equate with community support for his actions or inaction. Sullivan’s failure does not mean she lost her voice to speak out as a citizen. Neither should it be surprising that anyone from the local legal community offered up their services to help her. IMO, the petition needed so much work that the resulting product after the assistance of any attorney would be more of a reflection of their efforts than it would be of Sullivan’s. There was more required than putting her words in legalize. I defend Sullivan’s right to speak out and admire her willingness to put herself out there, but her stepping up to the plate did not make her my mouthpiece.@Ron, nobody particularly needs the insight of insiders to understand the issues. All that is needed is a willingness to do a little research, listen with an open mind and become involved.
brianrbreen on January 07 at 11:49 a.m.
@DPA
Ninety nine percent of the public doesn’t truly understand your job or Steve’s job and the only way the public is going to gain any kind of an understanding is if someone takes the initiative to get out there and try to explain what the job is and why some decisions are made. The vast majority would understand if they were just provided with some fact-based interaction beyond the typical fluff based media responses. I know that isn’t your job, but it sure as heck is someone’s. Had that taken place prior to this recall attempt, I doubt it ever would have happened. Some people might disagree with some of those explanations but at least they would have a fairly comprehensive basis for forming an opinion. Believe it or not if you keep an open mind some knowledge can be gained from nuts, malcontents, crooks, and the like. Occasionally even from defense attorneys. You know, as do I, that there are some in your office that share my view in this regard.
So when you are done having your fun, think about this will you please, and see if you can help to find a way to get it accomplished even it means volunteering to be “The Face”, or a bunch of you getting on Steve’s ass.
@Ron_the_Cop
I’m not sure what my “persona” is going to be today. I’m torn between “nut case”, “malcontent”, “Irrelevant Old Dawg”, “Butt-Buddy”, or a couple of privately assigned monikers “Brian Breen Citizen Blogger”, or last but far from least my very favorite “Barmy”.
@Shelala
I would hope that you have noticed by now that something has taken place that should have happened long ago.
valleyman on January 07 at 12:20 p.m.
@seer: And who pray tell gets to decide who is committing the far greater crimes against society? Liberal ilk like you to reside in such a “backwards” place like Eastern Washington/Northern Idaho. I hear the Seattle teacher unions are looking for some more of you liberals to help rewrite history for the children of the state and I hear real estate is still dirt cheap and heck, you’d probably even qualify for one of those special loans us average joes cant…
Shelala on January 07 at 12:46 p.m.
@Barmy
Yes, I took notice. Did new faces have anything to do with it? Is this a tiny sign that these new faces can effect change (OMG)? After all, I’m keeping score. BUT you may have also noticed that it was kinda like squeezing a water balloon - some just moved over to what they perceived to be a friendlier KXLY blog to continue. Rolling stop.
Dazzeetrader11 on January 07 at 1:21 p.m.
“Matheson said Sullivan failed to show sufficient knowledge to make the charge and that there was no showing that Tucker violated his duty or intended to violate any law.”….
Sums it up. The main problem is that once people are installed as “directors” or “leaders”, etc they have the power. They have the pulpit. Burden grows…but in this case, read careful at the quote above. I didn’t know someone needed to show “sufficient knowledge” to make some charges stick. While I do agree that Sullivan’s pretty much a “dud” and a losse cannon….that one quote made me wonder…
brianrbreen on January 07 at 1:25 p.m.
@Shelala
My understanding is that new faces and new insight with respect to a public employees free speech rights brought it about. I know about the KXLY issue but if you will notice the actual posts by LEOs is limited, and to an extent, guarded.
For example;
Rick Atkins · Works at City of Spokane
This is such great news! Despite the lies from the Spokesman, kxly, krem and khq the truth is still getting out. The best lesson we can teach these lying maggots is to never buy that paper and not to watch their stupid news programs.
Rick Atkins · Works at City of Spokane
Robin Hinkle You’re awesome! Thank you. The DOJ needs to go back supporting the new black panther party and running guns into Mexico and leave honest police officers alone!
Certainly Officer Atkins has the right to express his opinion regarding the media at the risk of never being assigned to a PIO position. The reference to “lying maggots” is a bit troubling in that one could conclude he was referring to the public, but I think he meant the SR and KHQ, or perhaps all the media, I’m not sure, but he could have worded it a little better.
His reference to Ms. Hinkle being awesome certainly isn’t a problem, however I would think the opinion he expressed regarding the DOJ might just preclude him from being assigned to any federal task forces, but he sure has the right to express his opinion of the current administration. He apparently overlooks the fact however that the Thompson case was the product of a Republican administration.
So basically things have gotten a lot better.
I might just add that I noticed that KXLY did not post the DOJ’s response, as did the SR. I attribute that to the fact that apparently KXLY has a far better cookie recipe than the SR does.
Shelala on January 07 at 2:25 p.m.
@Brian
Same players different ball field.They simply lost the site that could have been considered inflammatory to the public or even mildly representative of SPD. Someone got it right. It is easy to recognize that some will continue to challenge or walk around the edges of any such directive and efforts to put a sock in it in relation to some will be thwarted at every turn. I have a feeling they will continue until they simply self destruct or maybe some new faces will speed up the process. Putting a lid on the pot won’t stop the simmering. The pot needs to be drained. Who knows, maybe I will slowly tip toe back over the fence if the new faces can keep it up.
generallyspeaking on January 07 at 3:22 p.m.
They didn’t “lose” the site….they just made it a “closed” group….so they don’t have to read the hateful posts from some…so if your not invited into the “group” then you can’t get on the site…..sounds Brilliant to me!!
Ron_the_Cop on January 07 at 3:32 p.m.
@Brian AKA Barmy
LOL I am too conflicted:-).
I’m not concerned about the plea deal that started the tiff with Judge Hayes. I do not know if this was a good deal or not.
HOWEVER since this case was reduced to misds Judge Hayes had every right to an explanation of why this was such a good deal.
Judge Hayes in her email to Mr. Tucker et al said it was an absolute necessity that either Mr. Tucker and or Mr. Driscoll appear in her court to explain the deal since Mr. Tucker negotiated it. I have the entire email chain via Mr. Emacio from filing a PDR:
Judge Hayes also sent a reminder message too. Apparently DPA Steve Garvin who was a recepient of this email and I believe was the messenger sent to Judge Haye’s court said:
Instead Mr. Tucker sent a DPA who could not provide the explanation Judge Hayes sought. Did Judge Hayes know something we don’t know and that’s why she requested the personal presence of Mr. Tucker?
In any event the deal didn’t go through and Mr. Tucker et al pulled the case and sent it back to Superior Court as felony so Judge Hayes was removed from the loop.
IMO while not illegal without some further explanation this smacks of arrogance by Mr. Tucker. This is similar to the SPD salute that showed utter disrespect and contempt to the court and our rule of law and system of justice
While Mr. Tucker my be a nice guy IMO he’s a lousy county prosecutor. Mr. Tucker claims he can’t file without a referral from LE requesting charges. I will cry foul on this and will explain later. This is a cop out. Further my sources say the public is not getting their money’s worth from him on most days. There may be some truth to Mr. Tucker’s state of consciousness too.
@Shelala,
I actually agree with you but I see the elephant in the room sometimes differently. The case was there but Mr. Tucker should be thanking his lucky stars as his counsel clearly out performed Shannon. The deck was stacked.
I agree with Barmy the public needs to be educated and the recall perhaps has now put Mr. Tucker in the public spotlight. Do read my reply to DPA in the other thread.
@LiveinfearoftheSPD,
I wouldn’t go so far as to say Mr. Tucker perjured himself in his declaration that was attached to his counsel’s brief but I would say he definitely didn’t tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Mr. Tucker tried to rationalize on the Zehm case he was at the mercy of the feds who took this case away from him in July 2006. This is akin to SPD Ofc.Tim Moses saying the big bad feds threatened and intimidated him so much that he was shaking in his boots.
I don’t think Mr. Tucker’s statement will go unnoticed by the feds of him attempting to hide under their skirts. Former US Atty Jim McDevitt said when announcing the indictment of Ofc. Thompson inferred they acted because the locals had failed to act.
See McDevitt’s quote in this article by Tom Clouse:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/jun/23/feds-indict-zehm-officer/
Ron_the_Cop on January 07 at 3:37 p.m.
@Brian,
I will post later on the point re prosecutorial discretion and where I differ from your opinion. I’m sure you read this article by Clouse’s where two former Spokane County Prosecutors took issue with Mr. Tucker’s decisions in the Zehm case:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/nov/12/tucker-mum-on-charges/
ChiefsFan21 on January 07 at 4:02 p.m.
Not only should Steve Tucker have been recalled he should be facing indictments for his part in corruption.Just because you have the power to not do your job doesn’t mean your employers aren’t taking notice.I guarantee one thing nobody’s going to reelect that pos that’s 100% guaranteed now.
Shelala on January 07 at 4:24 p.m.
@generallyspeaking
They should have and could have made it a closed group from the start, but that wouldn’t have sold many wristbands or publicly asked for donations under a guise of a “non-profit” would it? By the way, where’s the money? Go ahead and reply with some lo level name calling thus avoiding any logical response.
liveinfearoftheSPD on January 07 at 5:02 p.m.
Ron I fail to see that fine line you are attempting to paint here.
perjury
deliberate or willful uttering of untruths when under oath in a court or similar tribunal. — perjurer, n. — perjurious, adj.
A lie, is a lie, is a lie…….
As is an untruth.
brianrbreen on January 07 at 6:37 p.m.
@Ron_the_Cop
Allow me a short bloviation.
Donald Brockett was the SCPA from 1969 to 1994 short of my tenure with the SPD. But that still makes him…I guess… an “Irrelevant Old Dawg”
Steve Matthews was the prosecutor between Brockett and Sweetser.
I bet he wishes he had listened.
“Five years ago, Tucker shunned a suggestion – by someone he refused to identify – to hand the Zehm investigation over to a prosecutor from another jurisdiction. “It’s my job to make the decision,” Tucker said in July 2006.”
Brockett said,
“I thought everybody in the case and cover-up should be immediately terminated and an independent investigation should be started to determine if anyone should face prosecution,”
I agree with an independent investigation but it must precede any decision to terminate anyone.
In Brockett’s opinion he;
“believes he has seen enough evidence presented by the FBI to charge two officers with first-degree manslaughter in connection with the death of Zehm “.
He may be right but it needs to be investigated further because that wasn’t the focus of the DOJ investigation, and there are problems with the ME identifying the cause of death as “Excited Delirium”. (An inquest wouldn’t hurt BTW). See everyone forgets about that “Excited Delirium” thing, but that was, and is, a big deal and it wasn’t brought forward in the Thompson trial with good reason. If I was on the other side of the case involving the other cops defending one, as I’ve done in the past I might add, I’d be all over that like stink on poop and so would the lawyer.
I have no idea when Tucker learned of the FBI investigation, nor does the public. I would assume shortly after it started. If he didn’t, then there is something wrong.
I seriously doubt we will see an investigation into the rest of the Zehm case in the hands of the Spokane County Prosecutor. Tucker has already hinted he may give it to the State AG…. and that’s a good thing.
I’ve pretty much said all I will say about the court no show for Judge Hayes. But I personally believe there is more to it than meets the eye.
Look I’m not defending Tucker, and I’m not defending the cops or anyone else for that matter, just trying to point out it isn’t going to be a cake walk…and as long as “generallyspeaking/justme09” is having fun…. I’m having fun.
generallyspeaking on January 07 at 6:47 p.m.
I have no idea where they chose to spend their money…but I am sure it was for Ofc. Thompson…..and pretty sure they don’t have to explain anything to you…..you still haven’t learned….your opinion really doesn’t matter….You didnt sit thru the whole trial I bet….so your thoughts/opinions are a mute point….just alot of blah blah blah….
generallyspeaking on January 07 at 6:54 p.m.
But where can you buy them again? I am in for buying 10 a month until this circus is over…..
Ron_the_Cop on January 07 at 7:18 p.m.
@Brian AKA Barmy,
BINGO - You hit the nail on the head - INVESTIGATION! I totally agree with what you said about Brockett and Sweetser. I think they know that too but having seen what the feds developed they know what needs to be done. This is where Mr. Tucker seems to be clueless:
That’s what’s been seriously lacking in all of these cases thorough and complete I N V E S T I G A T I O N S. Mr. Tucker is no idle player dependent on LE to submit a referral for charging. More on this later.
@LiveinfearofSPD,
I’ve bloviated way too much today. I’ll answer when I reply to Brian re investigation et al.
Marie on January 07 at 8:27 p.m.
@brian,
Steve Matthews was never the prosecuting attorney. Jim Sweetser was the prosecutor after Brockett. He was a one term prosecutor. Tucker was first elected in 1998.
brianrbreen on January 07 at 8:48 p.m.
@Marie
You are right…. it’s going… Matthews ran against Sweetser but didn’t Matthews interim for a while or is it completely….gone.
brianrbreen on January 07 at 9:06 p.m.
@Marie
I think you are totally right. I was probably thinking of when Matthews was brought back as Chief Criminal Deputy. I do remember it was a big deal when Don a Democrat endorsed Matthews a Republican, who ran against Sweetser a Democrat. At least I remember that.
brianrbreen on January 07 at 9:14 p.m.
@Marie
I do vividly however remember the Mathews was lucky RA didn’t kick the crap out of him in Seattle during the retrial, just one of many things that didn’t get into the book.
Ron_the_Cop on January 07 at 9:54 p.m.
Brian,
Book:-) Hmmmmm. Brad? It’s the pits getting old and the mind starts to fade:-)
brianrbreen on January 07 at 10:10 p.m.
Again…nope…but a good friend that passed. The book I was referring to was the book “Son” written by Jack Olson, which was about Kevin Coe a serial rapist here in Spokane. Zelda referred to the book earlier and some of the things that happened which I would describe as just plain weird.. It was a very interesting case. If I remember correctly it was a best seller, you should read it. The public wasn’t happy with the cops back then either.
brianrbreen on January 07 at 10:32 p.m.
@Ron_the_Cop
You should really make an effort to read it. If you think things were interesting in Riverside, CA…let me tell you it doesn’t hold a candle as to how strange this little burg is. Don Brockett prosecuted the first trial in that case, and then there was a retrial. I think you would find the murder of the fire chief and our very own black widow interesting as well. Brockett was involved in that case too. We might not reach the level of social sophistication that places like Riverside do but it’s pretty hard to beat us when it comes to criminal sophistication.
Ron_the_Cop on January 08 at 7:45 a.m.
@Brian,
I can tell you this we wouldn’t let the death of a fire captain in an arson fire at the Zukor clothing store go unsolved. It would be peddle to the metal no matter who was burning out whom in Downtown redevelopment. Also the torching of the District 81 Adm building where the new Nordstroms now sits wouldn’t have gotten the blind eye treatment either.
Yes this is a very interesting place. That’s why we need professional law enforcement leaders. If we don’t we have the Ross, Savage, Zehm, Creach, Dodd, I can go on re cases that some find problematic and don’t accept the Jedi wave off - nothing here folks, we’re the professionals, move along:-)
That’s my point and why I speak out because I like this place and I’M STAYING. You may ask as some of my other retired colleagues do why bother? Because it’s in my blood as a sheepdog (http://www.killology.com/sheep_dog.htm). My answer is that it effects all of else by allowing this to continue within our midst. That’s why I’m so down on Mr. Tucker.
Read the work of Mr. X at the Spokane Economics and Demographics blog. This region has had billions sucked from it and the prevailing wage structure is depressed because of Spokane Nice! And don’t tag me as an occupier of Wall Street. The problem is the watchers/sheepdogs have failed to protect the flock. This is not a political/ideological issue.
http://inlandnw.wordpress.com/
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW!
brianrbreen on January 08 at 8:50 a.m.
Well Ron….. I can only attest to this regarding the Hanna Murder. If Jim Walsh, Bob McBride, Al Hales, Bill Beeman, Chuck Staudinger, Bob Bailor and me would have been able to put a case together against anyone, even if it was Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan we would have, and Don Brockett would have prosecuted it.
cjkids02 on January 08 at 9:28 a.m.
I think that Ron “the I have nothing better to do but stir a empty pot” the COP and Brian”I cant remember who the PA was when I was a super cop” Breen, should just open a blog where they can discuss all these (ir)rational thoughts, theories and continue to pat each other on the back.
Its clear that the two of you enjoy listening to yourself speak, telling tall tales of your greatness, spreading incompetent thoughts, and discussing how your buddies back in the 1960’s, 70’s and 80’s did such a better job than anyone currently can.
Seriously look at how many posts you two have. Its no wonder that the blog’s have went from 40-60 people participating on this site, too you two and 4-6 others….fellas give it a rest…. please!
brianrbreen on January 08 at 9:33 a.m.
@cjkids02
I will, as soon as I catch up with @misjustice.
generallyspeaking on January 08 at 9:40 a.m.
@cjkids02….If you look up Narcissism in the dictionary….You will see a picture of Breen right next to Ron the “cop”…..pretty sure these two are dating….but it won’t work out because they both talk about themselves too much…..B O R I N G……Yawn!!!
misjustice on January 08 at 9:44 a.m.
@cjkids, I like reading what Ron and Brian have to say. I guess if you don’t, you are free to skip over their posts; or read the print version of the SR…
@Brian, while catching up to and even surpassing me is an admirable goal, you gotta know that my goal was to surpass Hawken…I think I’ve done that, so my work is done here.
liveinfearoftheSPD on January 08 at 10:09 a.m.
@misjustice
I certainly hope not. As your input and insight is just as interesting, informative, and educational at times, as Brian, Ron, Shelala, and many others. I would hate to lose that knowledge from any of you here.
brianrbreen on January 08 at 10:11 a.m.
@misjustice
I only have about 7,164 to go.
What is interesting to me is that @cjkids02 didn’t think the prosecution proved Thompson guilty and @justme09 thinks they did it in a dishonest way. Hell I wasn’t on the jury why pick on me…. no I take that back…go ahead and pick on me the jury doesn’t deserve to picked on they did their job, and I can it.
Ron_the_Cop on January 08 at 10:15 a.m.
@Brian,
I have what goes for the work product that was left at SPD/SFD. Police records didn’t know this case even existed! This was an arson/murder of a public safety member.
Where I’m from murder case files don’t go missing esp cop/fire related murders. They are always assigned to the new kid coming into the homicide unit to keep up to date. The Cheri Jo Bates murder in Riverside that at one time was linked to the ZODIAC killer was handed down over time (http://tinyurl.com/7lquajj). This murder occurred when I was still in junior high. I personally knew the last two detectives in the chain that had this case before I retired - Bud Kelley and Steve Shumway. As I said cop/fire murders are balls to the wall cases that never get shuffled off and or swept under the carpet. Why?
I had to convince the SPD/SO records manager to the SPD Major Crimes Unit to find the old case file. It’s not documented in their system! And yet I have the historical S-R press clippings This report and it’s supplement reports never made it to records! There are gaping holes in what remains. There are obvious workable serious leads that there is no supplement reports in file to show that they were followed up. The SFD has no reports and or any records of any evidence collected. Even one of the arson investigators said this was NO TRANSIENT set fire which was the cover story at the time. Why?
Sorry if I’m connecting the dots that are not connected. Also Larry Shook has direct evidence that the possible arsonist was seen leaving through the Payne Building shortly before the fire broke out. There was physical evidence in the Payne Building that was collected and is not documented in any of the reports and very little about the eyewitness accounts. The evidence folks have no record of or any evidence still remaining from this rife. Why?
Of course there’s the little historical info I’ve been able to collect re what appears to be acquisition of property within this block where the Zukor clothing store (Jamison Bldg) whose purchase was concealed by multiple entities buying this property? There is the issue of the building owners upping their insurance coverage about six months prior to the fire. Essentially they got full replacement value. There was an appellate court case where they prevailed over the insurance carrier even though they decided not to rebuild after the fire. A clue/lead?
And of course all of these properties with the exception of the Zukor building which remained separate were rolled into a LLC controlled by Louis Barbieri. These two remaining parcels were then rolled into the STA Transit Plaza ten years later in 1990. Of course we all know this was a gold plated ill-sited public works project that cost the Spokane taxpayers some $20 MILLION dollars that the assessor only now values at about $6 MILLION.
Brian tell me where I am wrong to be SUSPICIOUS. I’ve put talking with McBride/McGrath off because of more pressing matters. I’m not down on those who investigated this arson/murder as many of the leads that would have shown motive only became apparent a decade later. Perhaps we can all get together over coffee sometime and convince me my read of the tea leaves is wrong!
Ron_the_Cop on January 08 at 10:19 a.m.
Sorry folks for going off thread a little but this is all related to Spokane Nice:-)
This is why I am not willing to give any quarter to Mr. Tucker. Mr. Tucker may be a nice guy but IMO he’s inept, incompetent, clueless, perhaps a drunkard as some suggest, plays too much golf on MY TIME, and or simply goes with the the flow. Look when I was in harness I’m not guiltless in slacking off on cases for a number of valid or perhaps less than valid reasons.
BUT THERE ARE CASES that everyone knows where they must suck it up and work no matter where it goes and whose toes are stepped on. Trust me if Treppiedi tried to pull any stunts like he may have done in the Ross case and that the feds discovered in the Zehm case we would have had a shoot out in the OK Corral.
Short of the feds there is no one guarding the hen house in this town. I want I hired gunslinger who will truly abide by the oath of office that the County Prosecutor is charged with by WE THE PEOPLE. That’s where IMO Mr. Tucker has failed the people.
I still owe you a clear explanation where Mr. Tucker’s inaction goes beyond mere prosecutorial discretion. I will paint a very clear picture where Mr. Tucker while claiming discretion has failed to abide by certain standards as set forth in the RCWs. This is what Mr. Tucker’s counsel was so adept in papering over that Shannon tried but wasn’t able to rebut in the mind of the judge who was reviewing the petition.
The Savage case where both former Sheriff Bamonte and I have an extensive paper trail on Mr. Tucker where he can’t claim and hide behind prosecutorial discretion. In short he failed to do his job. Mr. Tucker’s hiding behind the skirts of the feds in the Zehm case is so disingenuous and BS it makes me want to throw up. The feds were waiting for him to act. When he didn’t act they did and we all know the outcome.
The_Seer on January 08 at 10:35 a.m.
You are both are lightweights. If you combined all my posts from banned Id’s over the years I’m well over 10 grand.
valleyman: The constitution gets to decide. Duh. And I”m not going anywhere.
brianrbreen on January 08 at 11:11 a.m.
Ron,
I wouldn’t be much help to you, I obviously can’t even remember who the PAs were. I wasn’t lead on the Zukor murder, I was on Heidenreich. I’ll tell you this though; we spent a hell of a lot of time on motive and comparing both murders. I had a great suspect who flunked the poly but no prosecutable case, and there was no identifiable link between murders.
People can come up with all kinds of motives and theories. But if you don’t have the torch, and you can’t tie the torch to the fire and the motive you don’t have a case. I guarantee you the Arson Investigators with the FD and the Homicide folks with the PD worked that for years even when it was cold. More power to you if you can solve it. I don’t buy the Cowles theory but if you can put it together with real evidence only a fool wouldn’t look at it from an open perspective.
It wouldn’t hurt some of the young ones to go back and look at those, with what they have today, they could very easily come up with a lot more than we did.
There is another one down!
@The_Seer
Don’t worry about the 10 large in posts…just worry about the 2 large and the vig.
Ron_the_Cop on January 08 at 12:31 p.m.
@Brian,
I want to stay on thread so I’ll be brief for me:-)
Please arrange a coffee mtg with these retired guys so we can share notes. Look I’m dead serious about Larry’s info. There should have been evidence seized that using forensics not available in 1980 (DNA) might just make this cold case hot by identifying the torch!
In any event if I was the lead investigator I wouldn’t let this hammer of an unresolved firefighter murder go unused. - NO STATUE OF LIMITATIONS. While those responsible that had knowledge and or aided/abetted may still be around:-) I wasn’t implying any Cowles connection in this fire but there are suspect players that move in the same power circle - grand jury subs. Now the District 81 fire might be a different matter. These fires occurred within months of each other. Look four alarm fireshappened in close proximity in time which each other where there hadn’t been any four alarm fires for many years is a red flag for me.
Shelala on January 08 at 12:40 p.m.
Well, ya know what? I guess I do have an agenda. I never posted prior to the Otto Zehm incident. I always had a few concerns about the SPD’s escalating use of of force and had even witnessed a few instances first hand naively believing that they were isolated and correctable.I had a ringside seat as I watched police work go from community service to robocop militariialistic occupiers of my fair city. Otto was just too much.The subsequent SPD support of Thompson and the attempts to cover it up further raised my ire. Brian and Ron can rehash all the old or cold cases they want. Knock yourselves out.I was there too.Ron, as much as I enjoy your posts and views and often agree, you are still fighting that old stereotypical image locals have as the California cop loaded with money from the sale of inflated Cali real estate market who comes to our area, buys a pick up truck with stakes, a few acres of land and spends the alot of time cutting firewood in a cowboy hat. Bamonte has been around a long time. He maybe an OK guy, but he’s not on any of my lists of heros.. I just filled a birdfeeder and watched my neighbor walk down the street with their dog on a leash carrying a twleve pack of Keystone.I have a small place on the “lake” or know someone who does and spend some of the summertime there. I hate paying for car tabs and cuss the taxes all the way to the renewal agency. and I risk a heart attack everytime I have to shovel my driveway out of the snowplow berms most winters.I only ride a bike if I am forced to or for fun, I prefer to drive everywhere. I am a typical Spokanite and I bet residents can add a few more.I want Thompson in jail and those who support him on the SPD fired and it wouldn’t hurt me one bit if they could never find re-employment and be forced to live like the “scum” they so proudly denounce. I want the SPD and our leaders to shape up or get out. The rest in in the details.
Ron_the_Cop on January 08 at 1:19 p.m.
Shelala,
I really don’t want to dredge up old skeletons. Yes we all should be greatly concerned about what happened to Otto Zehm because it could have been anyone of us or our loved ones.
My point is Officer Thompson’s actions were the result of systemic issue with police culture/behavior that has been allowed to flourish because of incompetent, inept and unprofessional leadership did not address this, looked the other way and or actively attempted to cover these cases up.
The Zehm case publicly exposed the corruption in city government that sweeps these things under the rug. We need to fix this problem by holding our elected accountable for failing us. I’m not saying the whole barrel of apples are sour but the rotten ones must be thrown out so that they don’t spoil the others. I think this is what Brian and I are saying. There are good men and women doing the job day in and day out. What they lack is effective leadership.
This walk down history lane was just to give some context as to why we have rotten police leadership.
Just think about this we’re all from different parts of the political spectrum but realize there is something wrong when Ofc. Thompson can cause the death of someone and some of his colleagues see nothing wrong.
Again this is why I’m so down on Mr. Tucker because he was the system check on police abuse. Mr. Tucker failed by hiding under his toadstool sucking his thumb. I’m sorry the feds had to come in and yes played hardball in a real search for the truth instead of just going through the motions and uncovered what they referred to in their DC press release, Thompson conviction ” … stemming from, … the beating of an unarmed citizen and an extensive cover-up that followed.” Trust me the US DOJ did not use the wording extensive cover-up lightly.
Again the law should be color blind, ideological balanced and NO ONE SHOULD BE ABOVE THE LAW.
brianrbreen on January 08 at 1:42 p.m.
@Shelala
I certainly have nothing against CA Cop transplants, and we see eye to eye on Thompson. I probably wouldn’t be here either if it wasn’t for that and some mobility issues. I’m just a little bigger hearted than you are concerning some of the other cops. I think you are being a bit disingenuous regarding the Keystone beer, it was the neighbor that had it, not you, and I’m sure your cabinet is stocked with high end Scotch like every other CA Cop transplant. Yes. Ron does have an uphill battle.
@Ron_the_Cop
I’m not your guy. In arson cases the fire folks had the scene and the evidence and were responsible for all its handling and submissions to ATF. In the Heidenreich case ATF had the scene and the evidence because the MO and accelerant were the same as several torch jobs up and down the west coast. I’m not surprised they weren’t able to find the files, which is a whole nother story. You might try the state archivist; they should not have been destroyed. Best bet would be to talk to McBride and the SFD arson guys regarding the Hanna case and the evidence. Most of the guys I mentioned from the PD aren’t around any more. I’d love to have the young guys look at the Heidenreich case, there should have been some evidence in that which might have DNA, and I could care less if they pick me apart, as long as they solve it. The same is true for Hanna.
Ron_the_Cop on January 08 at 2:11 p.m.
@Brian,
Thanks for your advice. Trust me I was not pleased when I learned that neither SPD and or SFD had a case file. What I got was from SPD is highly fragmented but there are leads that should have been followed IMO. My next step was the state fire marshal and or the ATF.
Of course I’ve been busy with other non revenue generating public svs of late and this has been on my back burner:-) I’ve wanted to talk with McBride but haven’t followed through on that. I’ve talk to several current SFD types but they all clam up. Also I tried to get a message to Hanna’s son who is currently a SFD bat chief but that didn’t go anywhere either. No one wants to stir up old skeletons. This is what bugs me the most.
Where do I go to find the archive files with the ATF and or state? Who would still have any physical evidence if SFD doesn’t?
Ron_the_Cop on January 08 at 2:15 p.m.
@Brian,
Bud Lite and or Michelob Ultra will float my boat when I will rarely imbibe:-). Gee I’m spending lots of CalPERS money in town. That should be worth something:-)
Shelala on January 08 at 2:22 p.m.
@Ron
I find it difficult the find anything wrong with what you said. However, as much as leadership does come into play, there is also such a thing as personal responsibility. Only one cop is currently facing prison time, although some may argue that his conviction is representative of the entire force and their belief they are within their legal right to club a guy like Otto. Where was Thompson’s moral compass while inflicting those blows? What was the eminent danger? All I see from the video are some stunned witnesses, followed by a flood of blue joining in on the abuse.Do the officers of the SPD really need a leader to tell them it’s not okay to beat a guy until he will eventually die from those blows? Thompson snapped or maybe it was there all the time waiting for the opportunity to release. Training be damned.Thompson did it and Thompson owns it and the consequences that follow. SPD hired a bad egg, pure and simple. How many more bad eggs have we hired? The FB pages, the vocal supports, the wristbands and all the rest, although offensive, merely serve as a means to assist in identifying those bad officers who have loudly told the public through their support that they would do exactly the same thing. Does that mean the officer inflicting those blows could have easily been one of them and facing prison time? Training, leadership or attitude can’t instill moral judgement. If it could our jails would be empty and rehab programs would be full. Marin Luther King said it best IMO ( although overstated in this case) when he said “remember that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal”.
Shelala on January 08 at 2:38 p.m.
@Ron
My remarks were not intended as a slam towards you or even Keystone beer :). I was just trying to point out that Spokane has its own flavor. I’ve been here a very long time, but I myself am not a native. I’ve worked with more than my fair share of transplanted Calicops and some were great and some were down right scary, but we all make a community.
valleyman on January 08 at 2:47 p.m.
@Seer: Shame… The Constitution gets to decide? Pray tell oh public school teacher which article of the Constitution declares the “greater crimes against society?”
Ron_the_Cop on January 08 at 2:59 p.m.
@Shelala,
You’ll get no argument from me re Thompson’s actions. As Brian said the young guns looked up to him as a mentor. I believe they were following a false prophet that leadership failed to address.
The first clue is Thompson’s fragmented svs record. Look I have nothing with CA cops coming to the N/W to escape California for the better life here.
HOWEVER Thompson worked for LAPD for ten years that has its own pension system separate from CalPERS. If you’re there for ten years unless you’re totally disgusted and what to get the H out of Dodge you might as well stay for 20 to get your pension.
Then Thompson goes to Idaho to work in probation or something, then onto the Idaho State Patrol, and then invited to Kootenai County for a political appointment as Captain. When a new sheriff was elected over Thompson who was also running for this position, Thompson was aced out and came to SPD.
There are some similarities with Deputy Hirzel from my old stomping grounds. Dep Hirzel when to the same police academy I graduated from in Riverside. He goes to work for Cathedral City PD who won’t get the top candidates from this academy. He leaves from Cathedral City for better digs but Cat City is in CalPERS why leave a good retirement system. He could have lateraled to another CA City and maintained his retirement but he left the state for Kootenai Co and then onto SCSO.
I don’t begrudge those who move here to continue to work as cops but this does raise another red flag for me. Were some of these folks also problem children in CA that wasn’t picked up in background investigations before they were hired or were these agencies so desperate they were willing to over look character flaws?
Shelala on January 08 at 3:01 p.m.
@Ron
Just a suggestion for what it’s worth, WSP and WA L&I have extensive knowledge/records relating to arson investigations, even old cases. Lots of expertise there.
brianrbreen on January 08 at 4:31 p.m.
@Ron_The_Cop
With respect to the Tucker v Sullivan recall issue. Photo number 2 is considerably more pleasing to look at than number 1.
All of the scene evidence was handled by SFD and submitted to ATF or the State Lab in the Hanna case, any evidence returns from testing would have also been handled by SFD and placed into police property as evidence. The same is true for Heidenreich, but I wouldn’t bother with that case it was a high end pro job far more sophisticated and a completely different MO than Hanna.
The Washington State Archivist for this side of the mountains is located at EWU. The original case files regarding both cases should be at the SPD unless someone mistakenly archived them, both files should contain all the reports from SFD and SPD and document what was seized as evidence. I have in the past however found that in some cases reports were missing from records that were in case files and visa versa. Nothing sinister, just poor document management. In both cases there should be a search warrant, a copy of which, might be in the court records. You might keep in mind these were torch jobs and big ones so DNA might be a stretch.
I don’t think there is any thing there, but if you find specific evidence beyond that of mere suspicion, or theory, good on you. If that were to be the case I doubt seriously that any of the SFD or SPD people would be anything other than happy if you did. Hell, I have a theory and a suspicion that cjkids02 and generallyspeaking/justme09 don’t like me, but I can’t prove it.
Ron_the_Cop on January 08 at 5:58 p.m.
@Shelala and Brian,
Thanks! We’ve probably bored the others to tears with our esoteric CSI shop talk. The SFD has NADA on this fire re reports and or physical evidence. I’ve tried with multiple PDRs. With what I know from Larry Shook there should be an item that was not consumed in the fire connected to the torch. This item could possible have DNA as agreed this torch may not have been as sophisticated as yours was.
greenlibertarian on January 08 at 7:10 p.m.
Ron, no one’s been able to explain to me how a guy up for Captain in Idaho, made it to Lt., yes, but at the time he clubbed Otto, Thompson working basically a beat as a SPD CORPORAL after 30++ years on The Job. You don’t usually go from Lt. to Corporal without MAJOR screwups.
And then how was there this whole cult of personality built around Klubber? I mean, that’s obvious and quite disturbing.
brianrbreen on January 09 at 2:56 p.m.
@greenlibertarian
The reason I’m responding to your question is I think it is important to remember what Condon said during his press conference, which I listened to with a critical ear. During that press conference he mentioned that the city was going to look into their hiring practices, and IMO they should, I would speculate that his advisors might have mentioned to him the need for taking care in picking your cops, and how it is done.
With respect to Thompson, I’m sure that the DOJ has most of his records. There is a difference between what he told Detective Ferguson during his interview, and what has been reported in the media, I don’t know what the truth is nor at this point do I know if it matters, but if it does any thing, it points out the need to scrutinize who we get.
I do know this; at the time Thompson was a Capt. with the KCSO he developed relationships with members of the SPD and what affect that had on his hiring, I do not know.
I think I’m correct in pointing out that he was not a “Corporal” rather he was a Patrolman Fist Class (PFC). I don’t know what civil service tests he took but he did have enough time on the SPD to promote, Corporal, Detective, Sgt., and Lt.. As DPA will point out in that regard you need facts, please understand I don’t have them, with respect to his civil service testing and where if he tested he ended up. But I could probably get them if I want to spend more money. Beyond the fact that he was a Patrolman and PFC he was able to convince some people he was Chief material, and as you can see it is very difficult to convince some cops that he wasn’t what he wanted them to think he was.
The reason I bring this up is because in my opinion, had the relationships not been there, and more time was taken to actually take a critical look at what you were getting perhaps we wouldn’t be in this position.
I can’t prove at this point that Karl Thompson did not take a polygraph, or that he was subjected to psychological examination. I don’t know for sure I only know what the law was then, and what it is now.
I guess basically what I’m doing is trying to hold Condon’s feet to the fire with respect to hiring. If that makes any sense at all.
I’m also waiting for my fan club to show up so I can make them even more bored.
Shelala on January 09 at 4:34 p.m.
@Brian
Do you believe Thompson may have brought personal stressors to the job? Why the cult-like following to the point others would lay down their careers and credibility?
Shelala on January 09 at 4:37 p.m.
Also, What do lateral transfers have to do except show up to get hired?
Shelala on January 09 at 4:46 p.m.
Does the city conduct periodic audits of their departments including personnel records, leave balances, performances, etc, similar to what the state does? Why is there no transparent public whistleblower program?
brianrbreen on January 09 at 5:51 p.m.
@Shelala
1) Can’t read his mind or theirs.
2) Sometimes an equivalency academy, if out of State or over 24 months separation.
3) You should probably sit down with someone from the PD and let him or her extol the virtues of the AIM system on you.
4) One must rely on the Federal Statues regarding whistleblowers.
https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=139-05-210
Shelala on January 09 at 6:27 p.m.
Well I guess you told me, eh?
Ron_the_Cop on January 09 at 10:06 p.m.
@Brian and DPA,
Mr. Tucker IMO is inept, incompetent, lazy, possibly a drunkard, arrogant. I could go on. This appears to be well known in the legal community. One of my sources who is in the media clued me in to Mr. Tucker’s watering holes
Mr. Tucker skated on the recall by the skin of his teeth. Mr. Tucker’s attorney did an excellent job in papering over the real issues. I am very proud of Shannon and will commend her for her courage to stand up. Shannon knew from her common sense perspective that something is was wrong here. Shannon was out gunned by Tucker’s mouthpiece.
Basically most of these allegations have to deal with Mr. Tucker’s prosecutorial discretion. Mr. Tucker is not an idle player and must take a backseat while waiting for a LE referral. That’s the problem all along with all these cases - garbage in and garbage out. Of course there will be insufficient evidence to charge when LE low balls the investigation e.g., Zehm, Savage, Creach (Not criminal though), the Ross case and perhaps the Dodd case.
Mr. Tucker et al completely overlooked the child porn photos (felony), destruction of evidence by LE and that statutory rape section does allow for prosecution between 16 and 18 yrs when there is a substantial a age difference between the suspect and victim. Mr. Tucker and crew dropped the ball on this one largely because it was tied up in City court under the control of Treppiedi - go figure the conflict on that one! At least they didn’t drop the ball the next time around when Ross was convicted of molesting a child under his own care. I expect better. Ross is a sexual predator.
IMO Mr. Tucker was lying through his teeth when he said the feds took the Zehm case away from him in July of 06. US Attorney Jim McDevitt in as much said so when the indictment came down. Mr. Tucker was dithering on the Zehm case all the way into Oct of 06. When Mr. Tucker said there appeared to be insufficient evidence to charge the feds then expanded their initial investigation to a full blown investigation in a real search for the truth. And Mr. Tucker is now trying to hide under the skirts of the feds. See Mr. Tucker’s declaration filed in response to the recall (http://tinyurl.com/6n4gdgm).
As both previous County Prosecutors Brockett and Sweetser said Mr.Tucker could have filed felony assault charges and 1st and or 2nd degree manslaughter under WA state law. Of course an investigation would be necessary. The burden of proof on these state charges would be much less than the what the feds had to prove for the criminal civil rights violation.
Mr. Tucker is trying to justify his inaction under the discretion of his office. HOWEVER one small detail as outlined under the RCWs regarding the responsibility of a county prosecutor - shall ensure that a thorough factual investigation has been conducted before a decision to prosecute is made
This is where Mr. Tucker fails miserably and has allowed these and other cases to slide. He has violated his oath of office by not doing his duties and responsibilities as charged with by the RCW:
RCW 9.94A.411 (This is a fairly extensive check list - this is only part)
b) GUIDELINES/COMMENTARY:
(i) Police Investigation
A prosecuting attorney is dependent upon law enforcement agencies to conduct the necessary factual investigation which must precede the decision to prosecute. The prosecuting attorney shall ensure that a thorough factual investigation has been conducted before a decision to prosecute is made. In ordinary circumstances the investigation should include the following:
(A) The interviewing of all material witnesses, together with the obtaining of written statements whenever possible; . . .
If the initial investigation is incomplete, a prosecuting attorney should insist upon further investigation before a decision to prosecute is made, and specify what the investigation needs to include. . .
brianrbreen on January 10 at 5:40 a.m.
Shelala on January 09 at 6:27 p.m.
Well I guess you told me, eh?
I tried to without bloviation. How did I do? :)
mary1958 on January 11 at 1:23 a.m.
Now that IT has stopped, I would like to thank Shannon Sullivan for doing more than–bloviate. Instead of writing reams about internal opines she actually TOOK ACTION and put herself in a position to be critiqued harshly by those such as–—Doug Clark. Thank you Shannon for standing up this time and last time. You are indeed quite a woman!!