January 13, 2012 in City

Condon team big on ideas – and jargon

Shawn Vestal The Spokesman-Review

If you were hoping that Mayor David Condon would “manage” the city more effectively, take heart.

His transition team’s report this week was spectacularly managerial: It was full to the brim of organizational jargon and cliché.

Example: “What successful reform models and processes have been undertaken by other cities, i.e., what are best practices for delivery of policing services?”

Best practices for delivery of policing services. No one ever used a phrase like that unless it was destined for a PowerPoint presentation, the world’s No. 1 sleep aid. The transition team, in presentations to the mayor at City Hall, invoked every sweaty old warhorse from the stable of word-like bureaucratic communication, from “stakeholders” to “benchmarks,” from “best practices” to “strategic alignment,” from leveraging opportunities to mitigating costs, from “Don’t reinvent the wheel” to “Challenge the status quo.”

This is not to say that the team itself was not an admirably broad-based, large group of folks. It was. The mayor picked scores of people from around the community and seemed not to choose merely yea-sayers. They volunteered their time and worked hard to come up with their analyses of the major issues facing city government.

And this is not to say that the team did not come up with some specific ideas. It did. But it’s almost impossible to see them, because they’re so deeply buried in a verbal thicket.

The transition team’s presentation effectively achieved the dual aspirational benchmarks of excessively syllabic communications: A) To appear to be saying something of substance when you are not; and B) to appear, when you are actually saying something of substance, to be saying something more innocuous than you really are.

In other words, this language has an agenda. It is employed for various purposes that are additional – and sometimes contradictory – to letting people know what’s going on. The ubiquity of these phrases, from higher ed to boardrooms to government panels to staff meetings, is an argument against them: As soon as every single administrator in America has said the same things a gazillion times, the words become utterly empty.

The chance of meaninglessness is high.

The transition team had some fine ideas. My favorite is the “de-militarization” of the police force and an emphasis on community policing. Yes. Let’s do that. My least favorite is the suggestion that city regulators not be allowed to deny permits to businesses that don’t follow the rules – only the mayor and his appointed business czar could do so.

But the presentation also had an abundance of obviousness (“Citizen participation should continue to be encouraged & valued”), fuzzy meaninglessness (“Examine alternative models for cost control”), and even a Venn diagram charting the intersection of “Stabilize Funding Structure,” “Keep Utility Whole,” “Improve Customer Outreach & Communications” and “Leverage Opportunities & Mitigate Costs.”

In some cases, there was a stubborn refusal to say what’s being said.

Take “structural gap.”

The big problem with the city budget is that costs are rising faster than revenues. Labor costs, mostly. Fixing this problem requires paying people less, paying fewer people, or finding more money to pay them. These are things that are easier said than done, given that most city workers operate under labor contracts and cutting services is unpopular, and even when they are said, they are usually not said directly.

Thus: “Structural gap.”

Here’s how this was outlined in the transition team’s bulleted presentation:

“A structural gap dominates the City’s budget process”

“The structural gap distorts management practices”

“This distortion impedes the City’s ability to achieve strategic alignment and effective delivery of services”

All clear? The presentation also offered some wonderful solutions for the problem of a structural gap dominating the budget process, distorting management practices, and impeding the ability of the city to achieve strategic alignment and effective service delivery:

“Employ principles-based leadership, benchmarks and best practices throughout City government.”

“Eliminate the structural gap”

“Enforce sound management practices”

“Align the City’s work with desired outcomes”

“Create a culture of cost control, effective management and strategic alignment.”

Brian Benzel, the former Spokane schools chief and head of the budget task force on the transition team, talked about setting “appropriate compensation levels,” about “a disciplined and sophisticated parameter-setting process” in labor negotiations, about more “sharing” of health care costs by employees.

But you have to dig deep and long, call in a translator, get out a dictionary, cross your fingers and take a guess to arrive at what a manager might call “the takeaway” – we have to pay people less, pay fewer people, or find new money.

Structural gap. It sounds so much better, because it means so much less.

This is not to dismiss the body of the team’s work. I’m sure it was valuable, and I’m sure it will help the mayor. He probably understands this language better than normal people. But I was struck by one of the best suggestions for how the new administration might engage citizens: “Make information clear to all users.”

Shawn Vestal can be reached at (509) 459-5431 or shawnv@spokesman.com. Follow him on Twitter at @vestal13.

146 comments on this story so far. Add yours!

8ball on January 13 at 5:10 a.m.
hahahaha … I know the ‘business’ speak well. It’s all puffed up and pompous, but usually leads to less clarity, not more. Maybe another high-priced external Consultant is needed to point Spokane in the right direction.
soccermomsusie on January 13 at 7:32 a.m.
Why wouldn’t this august panel use the kind of language Mayor Condon is used to? Do you forget his business background? He worked in a Christmas Tree lot as a youth and ran an espresso stand in college. In other words, he lives and breathes PowerPoint.
I think I remember this language from my Christian Accounting class in college. It sounds like all the panel members are of my age, as the jargon is quite dated. Not that I am dated. TQM - Totally Quality Madame.
HEAR OUR VOICE!!!
brianrbreen on January 13 at 8:02 a.m.
“My favorite is the “de-militarization” of the police force and an emphasis on community policing”
Oh yes…. my favorite as well. I’m not sure exactly what that means. Does it mean no more military type salutes that gain national attention unless it is at an officer’s funeral? Does that mean, no more BDUs? Does it mean officers will no longer have to follow a military type chain of command? (I hope not). Hard to tell at this point what that means.
I thought there already was supposed to be an “emphasis on community policing”. Does that mean there hasn’t been? Are we going to see a new “Community Policing Model”, or does it mean we are going to see a new attitude toward the community? (I hope so) Does it mean the community is finally going to get a chance to actually participate in a review of disciplinary actions? (I hope so)
Good piece Shawn, a lot of big words and terms the true meaning of which will remain ambiguous until we actually see what the new administration’s definition of those words and terms really is.
Gmaw on January 13 at 8:39 a.m.
All the fancy speak and not one concrete idea.
Scoutster on January 13 at 9:29 a.m.
“Do the thing and you have the power.”
R.W. Emerson
Ron_the_Cop on January 13 at 10:33 a.m.
@Brian - good morning,
Excellent points regarding SPD.
Here’s an excerpt from my bloviating on my blog:
http://tinyurl.com/7kxge56
… Again I would encourage you to read the work of Mr. X at Spokane Economics and Demographics Blog for an excellent analysis of why Spokane finds itself in the position it does (http://inlandnw.wordpress.com/). Once you understand why Spokane is so different than the West Coast for no apparent reason - e.g., cheap water and power, good transportation air/rail/road, regional hub for four states and Canada, inexpensive housing, excellent medical care and higher education and culture amenities … I could go on, you can begin to change course of the battleship. . .
The Spokane Regional Economy is not a free market and those in charge are raping and pillaging the MARKS/unsuspecting taxpayers at will for their pie in the sky projects - The Downtown Electric Trolley was again trotted out in one of these reports. Until these changes Spokane occur will continue its downward spiral with its best and brightest young people leaving for better prospects elsewhere, our prevailing wage will continue to be low, and our housing inexpensive/affordable - a polite way of saying a good percentage of our citizens are living in poverty dependent on government assistance with governmental transfer payments and retirees like me working on a second career that CHOSE to relocate here bringing the real growth that does occur.
I say ENOUGH already!!!
The_Seer on January 13 at 10:36 a.m.
John Wooden liked to say “Never mistake activity for achievement.”
This administrations of school districts are notorious for producing reams of the jabberwocky detailed here by Vestal. It provides their raison d’etre.
liberal_in_right_wing_land on January 13 at 10:40 a.m.
Anyone who thinks the boy wonder mayor Condom is going to be any different from any other elected official is delusional.
This boy wonder learned how to govern from Cathy McMoRo, who is more known from standing behind her party leaders and smiling during press conferences than actually any legislation she helped pass or anything she has done to help people here in Spokane.
mtharves on January 13 at 10:56 a.m.
Oh boy, the next four years are going to be fun watching and reading the Vestal vs Clark smack down in the pages of the SR.
Go Shawn!
nslopeofw on January 13 at 11:36 a.m.
He has to be better than “Karl is telling the truth” Verner. What a nimrod she was. We cant lose. Hey lib, how about you give him a chance like you “progressives” asked the rest of us to do with Obama? If, 3 years later, (just like Obama) he still hasn’t done anything good, (just like Obama) then yeah, beat him down.
MrBloggy on January 13 at 11:51 a.m.
MrBloggy intuits it is time for Spokane to reboot its civic delivery platform vis a vis the structural integration of cross-departmental contextual bridges robustly engaging proactive communication down the line.
arroyoribera on January 13 at 12:18 p.m.
Some thoughts on the supposed “demilitarization” of the Spokane Police Department, something that we need to do because in fact we will see further, rather than less, militarization. Vestal is correct that all this langauge just obscures facts. So…
Indeed Spokane should focus on demilitarization of the Spokane Police Department. But will it?
The Spokane Police Department purchased 100 AR15s (civilian version of the M16 military assault rifle) beginning in 2007. By know it no doubt owns more.
http://spokanepoliceabuses.wordpress.com/2007/08/08/battle-ready-the-spds-military-arsenal/
Members of the public have complained about the SPD driving around with its long guns visible in their patrol cars, sometimes even protruding out windows. The SPD also possess heavier military grade weaponry. Militarization is a fact. For a variety of reasons, the SPD is likely be an earlier adopter of drones in policing… unless the public understands the issue and stops them.
And then, of course, it has “use of force” trainers, like Rob Boothe, doing promos for high tech weapon manufacturers.
http://www.nextgenerationarms.com/rob-boothe/
Is this the image that Spokane wants projected by its officers. Here is a Spokane Police Department “use of force trainer”, Rob Boothe, doing promos for a private weapon company. Apparently his City of Spokane provided AR-15 assault rifle is not good enough for him and he needs an upgrade to an X-7 from New Generation Arms. I wonder if he gets paid for this spot or just gets some free practice time while helping NGA test its “next generation” weapons (the X-8), and getting some face time on the web.
Or perhaps he is just burnishing his credentials in advance of giving the SPD’s next AR-15 training class February 7-9, 2012
http://www.spokanepolice.org/TrainingCenter/CourseDescription.aspx?cid=86
Remember, faulty application of “use of force” criteria is part of what is at issue in the Otto Zehm killing and the Department of Justice investigation of the SPD.
This is not the only SPD officer doing moonlighting as poster boys for military grade weapon manufacturers.
Here is youtube version of a video from the Next Generation website to give you an idea of what that scene is about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOBaRpuaYiI&feature=player_embedded#!
Does Condon have the interest or resolve (bureaucratic smokescreen and language aside) to order his interim chief to make sure that his police officers are actually police officers and not right wing militia members, mercenaries in training, “use of force” trainers mascarading as mad gunners, glam boys for the military-industrial complex, or members of a militarized civilian police force in Spokane?
I doubt it.
Especially not if he is going to facilitate consolidation with army man Ozzie Knezovich’s militarized Spokane Country Sheriff’s Department.
http://spokanepoliceabuses.wordpress.com/2007/08/09/scso-pistols-submachine-guns-and-battle-rifles/
(A related aside: And it is time for the new mayor to remove the POW-MIA flag flying over City Hall. We are not under the jurisdication of that organization with its confused ideology and distorted portrayal of facts and history. I don’t care if the flag was given to the city by a commander of the US Air Force-JPRA SERE torture training facitilies at Fairchild http://cryptome.org/eyeball/pra-sere/pra-sere.htm
or if a retired SERE Colonel working for the City encouraged Mayor Verner to fly that flag. It is inappropriate and raises serious questions about boundaries between the military and civilian rule of our city, questions which extend to the issue of militarization vs. demilitarization of our police force.)
liberal_in_right_wing_land on January 13 at 12:48 p.m.
nslopeofw, I am giving him a chance like you righties gave Obama……they were attacking him before he was even in office, the righties leaders, the weird looking Mitch McConnell was already telling anyone and everyone who would listen is goal was to make sure Obama became a one term president.
You righties, yet again, seem to forget history.
So with that….where are all the jobs the Boy Wonder Mayor promised? Why hasn’t he reformed city hall like he promised? Why hasn’t he stood firm on his pledge to undue the water rates and car tab fee? Why hasn’t he fired that evil lawyer in city hall he said he would? Why hasn’t he started cleaning up the police department, instead hiring an interim chief who was part of the corruption for 20+ years?
He has already failed, I wonder if we can recall him.
Citizen on January 13 at 1:34 p.m.
Thank you for being the Translation Team to the Transition Team.
Just what we need not is more Bureaucratize from the F1-TM (Future 1-Term Mayor) Condon.
Wake me up when Rocky finally punches out, or any one of the heavily contributing developers is turned down.
Why have a sewage treatment plant, when we can dump it in the river, We don’t need no steenkin’ regulations, Davey, we just need to keep the mayorship firmly in the grasp of the violators’ pocketbooks.
Yeah, that’s the ticket to Near Nature, Near Perfect, never goin’ t’happen.
BlondeSquawker on January 13 at 1:54 p.m.
Condom team? What the heck is that?
Shelala on January 13 at 2:30 p.m.
Wait until they start that Six Sigma BS, which I know several members swear by. Hold on to your seats, it will be an interesting ride.
brianrbreen on January 13 at 2:31 p.m.
@Ron _the _Cop
Because I’m not encumbered with an R, D, L, S, C, or P tattooed on the cheek of my arse next to the Bulldog I’m willing to give Mayor Condon the benefit of the doubt when it comes to cleaning up the mess. I did the same thing with former Mayor Verner, and lost, and there is nothing I can say about that. I’m willing to do give Condon the same benefit I gave her. (What a sucker right).
I kinda of look at things this way. If you have political aspirations, you might want to think about where your loyalties lie. It has now become pretty obvious, hasn’t it, where Verner’s loyalty lied, and one would have to ask has she undone everything people thought she stood for. Even a hell of a man like John Olsen admitted that
When I read a press release from Mayor Verner as follows;
“We have acknowledged the pain that many of our officers feel as a result of the Thompson verdict, but it has been widely reported to us that the courtroom behavior of some officers, though protected as free speech, does not reflect the values we stand for. It clearly was insensitive to the friends and family of Otto Zehm, and for that, we apologize. We had previously directed that officers could not be in the courtroom while on duty. Still, on duty or not, we expect our officers—because of their position in the community—to live up to a high professional standard.”
Then you do your PDR, and all evidence is that there was no direction not to attend; one would begin to suspect the truth of her statements.
Ron, according to your Vita you are likely far better than I to discern what is criminal from a conspiracy standpoint and maybe you are. I can only say I’ve had a few, whether I was any good at it or not is pretty much up to how it ended up.
Not that doing a PDR is my forte, and the last time I was requested to do it by some other people even though I talked them out of pursing it, I ended up being the brunt.
Today I received, 642 emails regarding the “salute”(my pet peeve by the way) it will take me some time to go through them, and of course the redactions are very telling and will require the expenditure of some more of my money. But you guys pay me some of my retirement right! Just a cursory read of some, tells me how important it is that Mayor Condon take a good look at who in the City Attorney’s Office is providing him with legal advice, and whether or not that advice is in the interest of the Community or the Corporation.
Will I lose my battle; of course from the standpoint of discipline for the salute officers, they won’t even get a letter in their file. Will I be able to point out that we don’t have any oversight whatsoever? I’ll leave that up for others to decide.
@Ed Byrnes and @tomshal
I’ll leave this up to you. You are both on the same page as far as Citizens Review Panels, try and get together on that, please. Also please keep this in mind Ed, Tim Burns gets his legal advice from the city attorney’s office, and go back and look at how many of the IA cases he has “Concurred” with, and try and determine the basis. I’ll leave it at that.
Ron it looks to me like your complaint is now considered an “Investigative Inquiry”, and is history, as were all the others. It will be interesting to see how I make out when I’m ready.
Shelala on January 13 at 3:16 p.m.
I appears there are no sure fire quick solutions to reform or reorganize our local law enforcement or making them accountable. I know people were upset about the dissolution of the property crime unit. However, I believe it mostly boils down to money and funding. Money is power. Instead of trying to fix a department that is so obviously broken by throwing more money or attention to it, maybe be should try to reduce funding to the extent that they realize that some lay offs are in order, that they can’t afford to pay out lawsuits or must retain and utilize only those processes and officers that are effective. Quit feeding the monster. If we can’t regain control with ombudsman, citizen oversight and the like, I am all for starving them out so to speak, until there is no choice, but to listen to the people picking up the tab.
brianrbreen on January 13 at 3:49 p.m.
@Ron _the _Cop
Just one other thing, not that I’m necessarily all that experienced in complex case investigation, but I did learn a couple of things during my time. Let me just add this, I’m happy to see that the SPD and the City is looking out for the Community in that although I know from experience that an email discovery request requires search criteria be submitted to the server and the recovered data is transferred to a disc, which is easily copied and disseminated to the folks who in turn review it and make the “necessary” redactions. I also learned that it would be far less expensive to just provide the discovery via a disc. In my case the City and the SPD was looking out for the Community in that they realized that if they simply charged me for a disc copy they wouldn’t make as much money as they would if they charged me for each and every paper copy. Some might view that as the City is going to make this as difficult for this old Dawg malcontent as possible. I don’t…. I see it as fiscal responsibility. The same is true of the radio tapes; they provided those with the best interest of the Community in mind.
Not too long ago, when I used to get reams of discs with all that DOJ BS that included every minute detail, I hated having to sit in front of a computer and go through it…so my response was okay you jerks …Game On. I can’t tell you how happy I am the City has allowed me do most of my stuff on the “Throne” where I do my best work.
zelda on January 13 at 4:02 p.m.
City Hall reminds me of Floor 7 1/2 in the movie “Being John Malkovich.” A place full of people stooped over who spend all day filing paper. Maybe there’s a tiny door behind one of the filing cabinets — a portal to the truth — but you can only see it for a few seconds before you’re brutally dumped into a ditch next to the North-South Freeway.
zelda on January 13 at 4:14 p.m.
As for the language, these are the same lovely people who transformed “pay, wages, salaries and bonuses” into “rewards.” They are no longer payroll managers, they are “rewards managers” which makes them sound like bounty hunters or people who work for American Express.
Obfuscation is increasing geometrically because colleges and universities are cranking out thousands of communication majors whose main achievements are learning PowerPoint and knowing that you can use the word impact if you don’t know the difference between effect and affect.
MrNatural on January 13 at 4:20 p.m.
When all is said and done, more is said than done.
arroyoribera on January 13 at 5:25 p.m.
BrianBreen, Perhaps you could do the public a service and release the name of the 50 officers who stood up and saluted Carl Thompson. The public wants to know. Or, if you have reasons for not providing that information here at least you could tell us if the disclosure you received from the City included the names of the 50 officers so that people know whether or not doing their own disclosure will result in that information.
In addition, have you considered creating a website where you would simply post that information for the public to review it? Greenlibertarian or someone else no doubt could help you with that.
Thanks. David Brookbank
brianrbreen on January 13 at 5:38 p.m.
@Zelda
There is a lot of truth in what you say. It gets depressing when you learn that the person responsible for maintaining the SPD’s AIM system which is supposed to track IA statistics and trends is “proud” of the salute officers gave Karl Thompson at the Federal Courthouse. Then when you find out that Marlene Feist apparently approved some of the postings on the We Support Karl Thompson FB page you kinda just say to yourself…Say it isn’t so Joe…and you are afraid to go any further because of what you might find.
brianrbreen on January 13 at 6:17 p.m.
@DavidBrookbank
Perhaps you might think about this. I would love to be in a position to be able to tell everyone who they were. Although I know some, I don’t know all, and it wouldn’t be fair to disclose some without disclosing all.
The SPD knows each and every one. I haven’t requested that information yet because in the interest of fairness, I would like to give the new administration time to deal with it. If they decide that there is nothing to deal with and are going to let it slide then, I will submit my complaint. But I would like to do so with facts, and be in a position to specify why I think some type of discipline is appropriate. I have a lot of documents to go through, so give me some time will you please.
It was evident to me that, Mayor Verner, Chief Kirkpatrick, Howard Delaney, and others had no intention of doing anything from a disciplinary standpoint. Whether anything happens to those officers is now entirely up to Mayor Condon.
There is nothing to preclude anyone interested in requesting that information from the Mayor or the SPD, .so have at it. let me know if you get one, and who is on the list..
zelda on January 13 at 6:49 p.m.
You don’t suppose that Condon’s PowerPoint presentation was in comic sans…
arroyoribera on January 13 at 7:02 p.m.
BrianrBreen, Thanks. I will be working on getting the info myself. And yes, I will publish the list and post the documents as quickly as I get it. I have no need to give “the administration” any time to deal with anything. Public tax dollars, public police employees, public misconduct. Full disclosure now. When it comes to the police and their misconduct, one’s relationship to and experience with the police certainly colors one’s approach. I have no problem with that. David Brookbank
Shelala on January 13 at 7:19 p.m.
@Brian
What justification or reasoning was used by SPD brass and legal to condone the salute? Are they so blind and detached from the community that they could not see the offensiveness in the act?
Scoutster on January 13 at 10:23 p.m.
I”m no fan of this guy and Ifear he’s just an empty suit. It’s hard to deny the guy is only there because of his big sis, Cathy the Drape.
And jargon is jargon.
But I’m willing to give him a chance since he’s all we got.
And, as silly as some of these things might sound to our ears, one must ask: what would real change sound like?
8ball on January 14 at 12:11 a.m.
Shelala:
You are too late, but wise to sound the alarm. A so-called 6 Sigma Program has been underway at the city for at least a year, maybe longer, called Employee Led Innovation (ELI).
Mayor Verner sent an announcement to all city employees when it began stating that the newly appointed ELI Program Head would be given an immediate $25,000 salary increase because various Department Heads would not listen to their recommendations unless they had the clout of similar pay.
ELI jargon would make Mayor Condon’s Committee powerpoint presentation look like a grade-school Bob and Jane primer. Just for laughs, take a look at one of the ELI schematics.
From ELI’s publically disemminated Newsletter
greenlibertarian on January 14 at 12:33 a.m.
What a beautiful thread, seriously.
David, this was just..just… priceless:
Here is youtube version of a video from the Next Generation website to give you an idea of what that scene is about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOBaRpuaYiI&feature=player_embedded#!
Who knows what real change would feel like? Let’s find out.
greenlibertarian on January 14 at 12:37 a.m.
“Just for laughs, take a look at one of the ELI schematics.
From ELI’s publically disemminated Newsletter”
Much laughs, 8ball.
arroyoribera on January 14 at 3:52 a.m.
BrianRBreen, I am going to have to break this into three chunks and risk a reprimand from the S-R minders but here goes.
Let’s see if we can get a start on who the 50 saluting officers MIGHT be by starting with the 199 names signed onto the We Support Karl Thompson facebook page. Some of these are well known, in some cases, notorious Spokane Police Officers.
Interesting observations are:
1) the number of District 81 resource officers signed on
2) the number of family members of SPD officers
3) the high percentage of female officers compared to male officers
4) the number of officers involved in high profile or controversial killings of citizens
5) the 199 names include an SPD chaplain, members of the SPD “honor guard”, decorated officers, and killer cops.
I am sure I missed some. While I caught some SCSO employees and law enforcement from out of area, I was not specifically looking for those.
There are approximately 82 current active duty Spokane Police Officers out of these 199 names. So potentilally they may cover most or a sizable part of our 50 saluting officers.
Any help correcting or updating would be appreciated.
* represents current SPD police officers
** represents retired SPD police officers
Joy Hand McDonald
* Stephanie Vann Barkley (current SPD detective)
Eastern Washington University
Stacey Lynn
Kaplan University
**Jim Faddis (retired SPD internal affairs official)
Becki Huddle Wheeler
**Jeff Holy (retired SPD detective)
Gonzaga University School of Law
* Kevin King (prominent Spokane Police Guild member and SPG Forum contributer)
Employee at God
Tina McQuitty
* Chris McMurtrey (current SPD officer)
* Debbie Wagner (current SPD employee)
Michelle Thompson
Phil Davis
University of Idaho
Kris Kitchens
Gonzaga
* Ron Alter (SPD senior chaplain)
Chris Hamilton
Sierra Vista, Arizona
* Trevor Berg (current SPD officer)
Robin Hinkle
* Aaron Ames (current SPD officer)
* Davida Zinkgraf (current SPD officer)
Katherine Lusby
* Nick Spolski (current SPD officer)
* Holt Widhalm (current SPD officer)
Dan Gregg
Athol, Idaho
* Jim Christensen (current SPD officer)
Chuck Haley
Spokane, Washington
Adam King
* Christopher Johnson (SPD Patrol Officer)
Patrol Officer at Spokane Police Dept
Cat Sandor
Semester at Sea
* Bonnie Sherar (current SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
* Ty And Tricia Madison (current SPD officer)
John Sullivan
Broker at Plese Realty LLC
Amber Knudsen
Spokane Community College
* Michelle Reiner (current SPD officer)
Pete Bowes (District 81 security resource officer)
Somerset Community College
Joe Kimmet
Shadle Park High School
* Frank Zafiro (pen name for current SPD Lt. Frank Scalise)
Works at City of Spokane
Leigha Fishbaugh (relationship to SPD and SCSO not clear)
Kevin Kilgore (District 81 security staff)
Britt Taylor
E. Washington
* Tramell Taylor (current SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
* Nate Donaldson (current SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
* John M Everly (current SPD officer)
University of Idaho
* Christopher Bode (current SPD officer)
Chad Thompson
Jessica Mason-Eckersley (family of SPD officer)
Lauren Francis
District Facilities Office Assistant at Community Colleges of Spokane
* Trevor Nollmeyer (current SPD officer)
Franklin Pierce High School
Linda K. Thompson (SPD family member)
Boise, Idaho
Emily King (SPD family member)
* Ryan Jamieson (current SPD officer)
* Amy Ross (current SPD officer)
arroyoribera on January 14 at 3:54 a.m.
(con’t from above)
* Tj Fausti (current SPD officer)
Eastern Washington University
Jeremy Adams
Spokane, Washington
* Chet Gilmore (current SPD detective)
Ryan Belitz (SPD family member)
Inside/Outside Lawn and Garden Manager at Lowe’s Home Improvement
Lisa D Rogers Roberts
Lewis Clark State College
*Brad Thoma (fired and re-hired current SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
Destiny Stein
Deer Park High School
Michelle Bick Curtis
Gonzaga University
Heidi Rossie
Head Nurse at Porcupines
* Maurio Juarez (current SPD officer)
Pennsylvania State University
Michael Carr
Kevin Vaughn
Desiree Jamieson (family member of SPD officer)
Kathy Fluaitt Schaal (family member of SPD officer)
Gina Helton Honaker
F5 Networks
* Wayne Downing (SPD bicycle cop well-known for harassing downtown populations)
Spokane, Washington
Johnny Hilton
Longview, Comunity College Longview, MO
Vicki Anderson Snider
Corey Turman (Spokane County Sheriff’s Department)
Lee Morgan
Maria Arguinzoni (SPD employee in Police payroll department)
Spokane, Washington
Richard Michael Stallcup
Glendale JC -East Los Angeles JC
Kathleen Cordis (family of deceased SPD employee)
Larry Micah Dicks
* Teresa Fuller (current SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
Carly Cortright (current SPD employee)
Eastern Washington University
* Dina Schultz (current SPD dispatcher)
Police Dispatcher at City of Spokane, Washington
Jennifer Pierce
Gonzaga
* Traci Douglas (current SPD employee)
Neighborhood Resource Officer at Spokane PD
* Dave Eckersley (current SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
John Gately (District 81 high school security resource officer)
Shadle Park High School
* Michael Maini (current SPD officer)
Gonzaga
Tonya Streng
Spokane, Washington
Satanya Haws (District 81 high school security resource officer)
Spokane, Washington
Chris Meyer (family of SPD officer)
Works at Stay at home momma and best wife ever
** Craig Brenden (retired SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
* Ben Yinger (current SPD officer)
* Sherilyn Redmon (current SPD officer)
Washington State University
* Tim Ottmar (current SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
Lisa Ascol-Beckman
Ed Hoffman
Spokane, Washington
* Nate-Amber Spiering (current SPD officer)
Kiley Friesen (SPD explorer and former editor of SPD newletter)
Gonzaga
Griffin Criswell (current Spokane Valley officer involved in 12/2009 shootin)
Ken Mayhew
** Ralph Weir (retired SPD officer)
Gonzaga Prep
Scott Tollackson (former Kittitas County corrections officer)
Rathdrum, Idaho
* Ryan Snider (current SPD officer and beanie baby PR cop)
Washington State University
Jayden Meyer (family of SPD officer)
Theresa King
Shadle Park High School
* Jennifer DeRuwe (SPD officer and department mouthpiece)
Works at City of Spokane Police Department
Zeb Campbell (current Cheney Police Officer)
Cheney, Washington
* Michael Yates (retired SPD officer)
Mandi Tarmann (current SPD employee)
* Alexis Kester (current SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
arroyoribera on January 14 at 3:55 a.m.
(con’t from above)
** Gill Moberly (retired SPD lieutenant)
Spokane Community
Bill DeCaro (District 81 security personnel)
Spokane, Washington
Ann Leonetti Jensen (family of SPD officer)
Amy Warren
* Ron Erickson (current SPD officer)
Boise High School
* Dave Mather (current SPD officer)
Somerset, Kentucky
* Doug Strosahl (current SPD officer - participated in 11/2010 killing)
Spokane Community College
* Tamie Johnson (current SPD officer)
Cheney High School
* Devin Fisher (current SPD officer)
San Antonio, Texas
Kyle Trotchie (SPD Coop Captain)
E. Washington
Jason Vanderpool
Lariann Rabdau
Teacher’s Aid at Polaris Learning Center
M.j. Joseph
* Jeff Schaal (current SPD officer)
* Lydia Prichard (current SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
Josie Cox
Spokane, Washington
Kyle Steinmetz
Spokane, Washington
* Tim Moses (current SPD officer and Guild vice president)
* Mark Howard (current SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
Gary Cooper
* Elina Bishop (current SPD officer)
Debie Daubel-Hays (911 emergency communication operator)
Works at Spokane County
* Kurt Henson (current SPD officer)
Downey High
* Erin Raleigh (current SPD officer - involved in murder of Otto Zehm)
Christopher Dockrey (legislative aide to Sen. Maria Cantwell)
United States Congress
Stephanie Jacobson Widhalm
Cheryl Stewart
Keith Hutcheson
DeMatha Catholic High School
Dan Johnson
John A. Bujosa
Whitworth University
Nate Gobble
E. Washington
* Keith Cummings (current SPD lieutenant)
Otis Orchards, Washington
Brian Sullivan
Montana Tech
* Gordon Ennis (current SPD officer - killed pedestrian while texting and driving)
Works at Spokane Police Dept
* Glenn Bartlett (current SPD officer)
Sue Bryant (retired SPD administration staff)
Spokane, Washington
* Erick Specht (current SPD officer)
Gonzaga
* Daniel Cole (current SPD officer)
Washington State University
* Kellee Gately (current SPD officer)
Fred Bozanich
Eric Walker (Spokane City graffiti abatement officer)
Shane Emerson (Spokane Police Academy attendee)
Pullman, Washington
Skip Neuwien
Laura Hamilton Lesser (family member of SPD officer)
Eastern Washington University
Ryan Fuller
Works at Lumber Yard Supply
Ryan Akins
Mary Freeman
SUNY Plattsburgh
Jeanie Hilton
* Scott Lesser (current SPD officer)
* Ron Tilley (current SPD officer)
William J. Palmer High School
Chris Stein
Claire Utley
Eastern Washington University
Becky Wilkey (Ferris High School resource officer, i.e., commissioned officer)
* Jordan Ferguson (current SPD officer)
Melanie Donaldson
* Ron Van Tassel (current SPD officer)
* Shawn Pegram (current SPD officer)
* Erin Blessing (current SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
* Ken Applewhaite (current SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
* Mike McNab (current SPD officer)
Jen Van Tassel (family of SPD officer)
* Patrick Emery (current SPD co-op officer)
Gonzaga
Justin Shiflett
Mandee Greeno Vigesaa (family of SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
* Mike Maini (current SPD officer)
Megan Thompson
Idaho
arroyoribera on January 14 at 3:57 a.m.
(con’t from above)
* Tiffiny Ryan (current SPD employee)
Tiffany Burton
Payson High
Deidre Faith
* Jon Strickland (current SPD officer)
Sultan High School
* Sean Nemec (current SPD officer)
Works at Planet Beach
* Darrell Quarles (current SPD officer)
Patty Plotzki (current SPD employee)
Some time at EWU
* Jim Earle (retired SPD lieutenant)
Spokane, Washington
Danielle Thoma (family of SPD officer)
Spokane, Washington
Nathan R. Foo
Martin Robles
Gonzaga
Nathan N Jessica
* Deanna Schmidt-Storch (current SPD officer)
* Michele Heffernan Madsen (current SPD officer - shot dead 15 year old Eagle Michael on 9/27/03)
Pam Ames (family of SPD officer)
Frank Wilkey
University of Idaho
* Kris Honaker (current SPD officer)
Robert Harris
Pasco Senior High
* Anthony Lamanna (current SPD officer)
WSU, Washington
Melissa Maini (family of SPD officer)
Teacher at McCall-Donnelly School District
* Lauri Lucas (SPD officer - current status unclear)
Moscow Senior High School
Denielle Hrovat
Anchorage, Alaska
William Dufner
Richland, Washington
I forgot to mention the fact that apparently most of the Spokane District 81 resource officer staff are apparently admirers of Karl Thompson and signed on.
And finally, I should mention that the parenthetical entries are miine. The other text below some names is from the facebook page and are presumably written by each individual.
David Brookbank
8ball on January 14 at 8:15 a.m.
I am going to take a different tack here. Where is this witch hunt going? Are we going to round up police officers who saluted and tar and feather them?
Under the U.S. Constitution, the right of free speech (which I believe also extends to free expression) is firmly delineated.
Personally, I believe Thompson is guilty. And, hopefully this conviction was a strong message to police to take their role as public servants seriously.
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
— Attrubuted to Voltaire
brianrbreen on January 14 at 8:37 a.m.
@DavidBrookbank
At some point I anticipate I will get a list. Not all of the officers on your list above attended the hearing. My hope is that the Mayor at some point will release the list of names as well as what sanctions were taken against those officers if any. Keep in mind SPD Major Craig Meidl was present at the salute and posted his explanation of the salute on the FB page, so he should know all that were present.
It appears that with respect to all of the complaints about the salute that were submitted to the Ombudsman that the SPD closed them as “Investigation Inquiry” and the Ombudsman concurred. So apparently the SPD and the Ombudsman felt people submitting complaints were only making inquiries and didn’t really want an investigation of the officers to take place. I should note that the complaints through the
Ombudsman only represent a small number of the complaints received by the SPD. Whether there is currently an IA Investigation going on, I don’t know, nor do I know if the Ombudsman followed up with any of the people submitting complaints to him and explained to them why there complaint was closed. I was encouraged by the fact that the IA Lt. was in some way involved in my PDR.
I have not at this point received all of the documents I requested on November 9, 2011. I should get them soon, but you must keep in mind that at the time of my PDR it was Mayor Verner and Chief Kirkpatrick who ran our Police Department, and it appears they had no intent to do anything regarding the salute. You might also keep in mind that the responsibility for reviewing my PDR was given to Rocco Treppiedi. Which I might add lead to one comical email to him from the Brass in charge of SPD Records.
In my view there is some very troubling things in some of the emails, on the other hand I was happy to see that the Administrative Secretary for the Mayor was appalled (my term not hers). Among other things I didn’t like the fact that one patrol division supervisor makes light of the salute incident by ending emails between him and the officers he supervises with the closing “I Salute You” followed by a smiley face, nor did I think it was appropriate for Jennifer DeRuwe to utilize the SPD email system to disseminate an opinion piece which attempts to justify the salute.
As I anticipated the results of my November 9, 2011 PDR, have lead to the need to submit additional PDRs, and I will. I have no intention of setting up a website, I don’t believe that would be fair nor do I believe it would accomplish any thing. These officers in my view do have the right to their own opinion regarding Karl Thompson and the Zehm case they just don’t have the right to express it in some of the ways they have, nor do they have the right to use public resources in doing so.
@Shelala
The only public position I am aware of, as coming from the SPD Brass is Major Meidl’s FB post. You might also keep in mind that Mayor Verner and Chief Kirkpatrick publicly stated that officers were directed not to attend the hearing on duty and they were going to refer that issue to HR. The results of my PDRs in my view indicate that was not a true statement.
brianrbreen on January 14 at 9:08 a.m.
@8ball
The Supreme Court of The United States whose job it is to interpret our Constitution has decided that our public employees do not share the same free speech/expression rights as the average citizen.
“Witch Hunt”…. if you so choose. I personally am only looking for a sanction against those officers that were involved in the salute, which is documented in their file for a period of no more than two years in which there is an acknowledgement that they used poor judgment in publicly saluting Karl Thompson at the expense of the Zehm family, the national reputation of the SPD, and the perception of the Community that their actions demonstrated a lack of respect for the Court, and the Criminal Justice they serve.
The_Seer on January 14 at 9:38 a.m.
Great stuff here, folks.
Brookbank: Brilliant! The militarization of police forces across the U.S. is driven by the military industrial complex and you helped trace local roots back to the Mother tree.
breen: Word is out Amacio will talk for free. Just sayin’.
misjustice on January 14 at 10:48 a.m.
Thanks David; important listo saved to my hard drive, to be used for future reference.
Shelala on January 14 at 12:34 p.m.
I don’t think this is any sort of “witch hunt”. The information David posted is available only because these officers/supporters publicly voiced their support for Thompson voluntarily. They are proud of their support of this felon and want the public to know it. What is disturbing is not only the disregard for the public sentiment, but the fact that they do not believe Thompson did anything wrong in the Zehm incident. They believe his response was proper. Given their opinion, it is very reasonable to conclude that their actions would be essentially be the same when responding to any similar call. How can they correct behavior if they do not even acknowledge it was wrong? As far as the saluters are concerned, a letter in the file? Big deal.Some day off? Again, big deal. They need to go because they are fifty walking talking risks to the public safety each day they are on duty.
Shelala on January 14 at 12:53 p.m.
@8ball
Thanks for the 6 sigma schematic. It brought back bad memories of my experiences of trying to fix problems with the wrong tools. Akin to trying to fix the plumbing with carpentry tools and about as effective. 6 Sigma has been around a long time and its followers are as devout as moonies at the airport and probably as out dated. This so called process improvement effort was popular in the eighties when the “one minute manager” and other ideas were popular. The people that participate are all exhausted and feel they have worked hard after such an effort, but it is just because the exit doors were blocked and the creative left frontal lobe of their brain was destroyed in the process.Why am I not surprised that it was already in use in our city government?
arroyoribera on January 14 at 1:19 p.m.
I have to say that I was pretty involved on S-R comment threads back in 2007, including Frank Sennett’s Hard 7 (when Sennett left for Chicago the S-R purged the comments to Hard 7 and has to date failed to repost them as promised - they were important public record especially on public opinion on police abuses.) I have commented here pretty sporadic in recent years, in part because my big focus is US imperialism. But the police issues - bloody US imperialism at home - are close to my heart, in part because I am as likely as anyone to be a victim of SPD political repression (like the 7/4/07 “near police riot” against young people in Riverfront Park - “police riot” was GU professor Tom Jeannot’s term http://spokanepoliceabuses.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/dr-tom-jeannot-reflects-on-july-4-2007-in-spokane-washington/).
I understand BrianRBreen’s approach and respect it. It is not my approach.
Okay, so no “witch hunt”. I don’t see it as such. The police are citizens and have rights. But they are also armed, dangerous and have a tradition in Spokane of killing, abusing, lying, covering up, intimidating, condescending, and acting like what in other times was referred to as a mammal with a snout that roots around in the mud and its own feces. http://spokanepoliceabuses.wordpress.com/2007/09/24/spd-officer-i-have-a-job-to-doto-get-these/
I am not willing nor obligated to wait for the predictable and perfunctory rhetoric and sweeping under the carpet of this issue. These militantly unrepentant police officers, police employees, families and friends - in my subjective interpretation of the event - gave a brown shirt salute and said in essence, “The will of the public, the decision of the jury, the judgment of the court, law and policy of our department, the orders of our superiors be damned. We are uniformed, armed para-military forces and we will not break ranks. We will see you in a dark ally some night so beware. And that goes for you too, S-R reporter Tom Clouse and anyone else”. Or just see SPD Officer and Guild member Kevin King’s characterization of himself as “Employed at God” - see name number 6 on the list above of those 199 signed onto the We Support Karl Thompson facebook page.
The Ombudsman this and the Ombudsman that. The Spokane Police Ombudsman was discredited in my mind the day he allowed the Pacific Northwest Inlander to take his picture in front of an SPD squad car and use that as their front cover picture right after he was hired. He is a cop (okay, former cop) and I believe he is still part of the thin blue line. I and others I have spoken with in the community give him some credit but are not that impressed with a number of things he has done nor his skills and no one is going to remain kneeling in front of his mini-throne breathlessly awaiting his judgment. This issue belongs to the people. If our Ombudsman were a Boise-style Community Ombudsman like Pierce Murphy, that photo would never have been taken. When you have an out of control, bloody police department like the Spokane Police Deparment (or the Seattle Police Department, now under federal supervision), the Ombudsman is there to aggressively advocate for and protect the community until the police force has been defanged. I don’t see our Ombudsman playing that role and the Inlander photo speaks to the reasons why.
(continued below - David Brookbank)
arroyoribera on January 14 at 1:20 p.m.
(continued from above)
When I created the SpokanePoliceAbuses website and SpokaneRacism website it was to get in the face of these blood covered SPD administrators and officers. Right in their faces where they could feel the heat of my breathe. At one point, unjustifiably in my opinion because as these S-R comment threads show our numbers are large, the S-R called me Chief Kirkpatrick “most ardent public critic” (and then proceeded to distort my comments). I don’t point that out to attract attention to myself, in part because her ardent critics are legion. The SPDs most ardent critics are on these S-R threads and in the local police accountability group SPARC and at the Center for Justice, etc., not to mention those like Tom Clouse who are being threatened by the SPD for their bravery.
I mention it because my style is perhaps different. I am no respecter of title or tenure or sidearms or bluster or repressive style/tactics/action. I don’t buy the “we are a republic” concept and need to let the process work through its byzantine bureaucratic ways. We are all equals. We all have equal rights and freedoms. So use them while you have them if the SPD and its “officers” are murdering your neighbors. Stand up and fight back. If they are saluting the 6 men and 1 woman who killed our Otto Zehm, everyman/everywoman/everychild Otto Zehm, then search out their names, denounce them, maintain visible pressure until they are punished to the extent of the law and policy possible, until they are removed from the force if necessary, and insist on federal investigation as well as oversight or receivership if necessary. This is the moment to do this, all the way.
The incidents - now under FBI investigation - involving Tom Clouse (surely one of the SPD’s most ardent public critics) and two Zehm family attorneys are beyond extremely troubling. (See paragraphs 36-38 http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017083878_spokane24m.html). This is only an opinion but one I believe many will hold. The Spokane Police Guild contains members easily capable of having either themselves, through contacts in the confidential informant community, or otherwise, to have committed the crime of breaking into Clouse’s residence and cleaning out his home, leaving an S-R article on his porch as a warning.
The Spokane Police Guild contains members whose actions far exceed unethical and dangerous. In 2007 now Lieutenant Dan Torok (who participated in the death of Otto Zehm and killed Jerome Alford under highly suspicious circumstances in an isolated section of downtown yet has risen to be an SPD spokesperson and all around tough guy) and now retired internal affairs sargaent Jim Faddis (who is signed on to the We Support Karl Thompson facebook page spent considerable time, much of it seemingly on taxpayer-paid duty, using pseudonyms until they were forced out of the closet. It also came to pass at that time that - though they initially denied it - they maintained a thread on the Guild blog (where Torok was a prolific writer, as was God’s employee Kevin King) on which they discussed me and my SpokanePoliceAbuses blog. No problem there. But while I was addressing them publicly with my real name, they were discussing me in private http://spokanepoliceabuses.wordpress.com/2007/08/24/spokane-police-guild-forum-page/- as well as the topic of Spokane area businesses that do or don’t support the police http://spokanepoliceabuses.wordpress.com/2007/09/03/le-friendly-vs-le-hostile-spokane-police-guilds-forum-discussion/. As soon as they found out that their fire wall was not in the right place and allowed the public to see the page with the names of the threads (though not read the threads) they locked the site completely down.
(continued below- David Brookbank)
arroyoribera on January 14 at 1:21 p.m.
(continued from above)
People are under no obligation to wait for the Ombudsman, the new police chief, the new mayor, or anyone else. BrianRBreen and Ron “Rocketsbrain” Wright do a great public services, but so do John Olson, Ed Byrnes and many others here. No one should be intimidate by their “knowledge” or purported “insider knowledge”. And no one should leave a single question unasked nor a single violation unreported and self-documented. If you understand what a culture is, then you understand what an extremely large problem we have on our hands to deal with the SPD and its culture, now headed by one of its own.
David Brookbank
brianrbreen on January 14 at 2:24 p.m.
@David Brookbank
I understand and appreciate your position, and I’m glad you understand mine. I am encouraged by the fact that the names of a number of officers that I know personally are not on your list nor did they attend the hearing, all of whom are very good officers and are taking some heat as a result of the actions of others.
I’m also encouraged by the fact that in an email to Mayor Verner regarding the salute, Major Meidl states the following;
“I apologize for the grief you have been taking in our behalf”.
Which to me appears to be recognition that the judgment was poor regarding the salute.
Mayor Verner responds;
“Thank you for stepping up to acknowledge a mistake, and for your leadership in communicating your perspective”.
She goes on to say;
“This difficult set of circumstances will pass, but we can have a better SPD if we use the hard lessons as foundations for improvement”.
I agree with her in that regard, the question is how does someone go about impressing upon those individuals that made the “mistake” that is was a mistake. My personal opinion is that you cannot let it slide and wait for the media attention to die, it has done far too much damage. I know many would consider my view of a resolution as soft, and perhaps it is, but it is mine and I own it. I’m more than willing to take the heat from both sides of the issue, and believe me there has been a lot.
I’m not sure how the SPD will respond when and if Officer McIntyre is charged, they are however expecting it, and I hope that they and the new Mayor respond to that when it happens in a far better way than the response to Thompson.
Shelala on January 14 at 2:59 p.m.
IMO one of the biggest travesties would be for this issue to “die down” or “blow over” without meaningful changes, as Brian pointed out. Recent “good” press releases involving SPD (beanie bay, citizen assistance in nabbing a bad guy, etc.) seem to be intent on trying to steer the public rage away from these important issues and onto less controversial actions. Not so fast. SPD. The community is not so easily led down that path even if the desire is there to have a functioning police department free from abuses. I would urge the community to keep the Zehm incident and others fresh and debated until there is some real action taken to correct the issues that led to them. No double talk, meaningless assurances or misdirection. Brian, IMO yes, you are far too soft on these guys than I would be if I had a choice in the matter. I respect your entitled opinion, but IMO the discipline for such serious offensive behavior that reflects upon their suitability to continue to do their job, should be much more than a letter in their file or a couple days off. Really, what is the reason they should continue to be employed?
arroyoribera on January 14 at 3:37 p.m.
I should say to Ron and Brian and all, keep up the good work…
And no doubt, Shelala, you noticed that the “Beanie Baby Cop”, Ryan Snider, is on the list of the 199 signed onto the We Support Karl Thompson facebook page. So is SPD mouthpiece Officer Jennifer DeRuwe, former SPD newletter editor Kiley Friesen, and officers portrayed in the television program COPS. So by the way is, among many female officers, Officer Michele Madsen who shot 15 year old Eagle Michael in the face leaving him dead.
It is reasonable to presume that the We Support Karl Thompson facebook page is only a portion of the SPD officers and SPD staff holding similar sentiments to the those of the saluters. And the absence of an officer from the 50 officer protection brigade means nothing. Someone had to be on the ready, AR15 at hand in case the people took to the streets had Thompson been acquitted (as you will recall there were “contingencies” drawn up, to return to the original topic of cold organizational jargon).
When you think of these people saluting, it is necessary to picture innocent Otto Zehm being beaten, taser, hog-tied, masked, and forced into the ground by more than one of the seven officers present.
Otto Zehm was essentially a prize Jew (substitute: disabled, dissident, Muslim, gay) under the foot of jack-booted Nazis. Slaughtered on the floor of a convenience store In our own community by “our” own police.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO36y78dXAs
Comments that exempt some portion of the SPD from scrutiny because someone knows them to be good or knows them personally or can quote them on some ocassion rejecting the most egregious aspects of the SPD culture are not warranted. Just as our exempting ourselves - to the extent that we are not involved in confronting this - is totally unwarranted and dangerous.
Again, we are witnessing the outcome of decades of an abusive and corrupt Spokane Police Department. This is not the time to make excuses, give people passes, await some Republican mayoral savior, or trust a police Ombudsman (operative word police) to do it for us.
For those who would like to see another fine example - from Boward County, Florida - of an all too universal police attitude, please watch this video of the lady in the red dress.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxRj4icrSww&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL63009471D4A18A62
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXaRbBHnLTM&feature=related
http://www.discourse.net/2006/08/broward_cops_laugh_about_shooting_rubber_bullets_at_innocent_protestors.html
100% guarantee this is exactly the attitude of the SPD towards the people of Spokane and any apologies, etc, are exactly a disingenuous and driven by their absolute lack of credibility now and at any point in the foreseeable future.
As the slogan goes, “Whose police? Our police!” And until that is a reality, no one owes these officers any thing in the way of respect, slack, or a break.
greenlibertarian on January 15 at 2:25 a.m.
Thanks David. When you’re on it, you’re on it. Well spoken.
arroyoribera on January 15 at 12:30 p.m.
Thanks, Greenlibertarian. Long time no see. And hope you are well.
arroyoribera on January 15 at 12:55 p.m.
BrianRBreen, I respect your views and approach as I have said above. Still I would be interested in exploring with you and others here more the issue of the public disclosure requests (PDRs) that you have made and what you do with them.
You are certainly not obligated to create a website to post those documents as I have suggested. It is, for one thing, a lot of work. I have started a website to post documents I received from the Department of Ecology about the WR Grace asbestos contaminated site at 1318 N Maple (the site that county bought and wants to build Sheriff Knezovich a new garage and other facilities as a spinoff project related to the proposed new jail Ozzie wants). I have trouble finding the time, especially since I am working alone and don’t have the technical skills. http://spokanecountyasbestos.wordpress.com/
But I would be curious to discuss further here the idea of you making the documents available.
The public has a right to request and receive documents from government at all levels including the city and its agencies, such as the Spokane Police Department. You are a member of the public and in that capacity requested the documents. Now you have some of those documents and are reading through them, sharing bits and pieces of information here and there with people here as well as your analysis and conclusions.
You have suggested you will share more latter. Any other member of the public - assuming they understand the PDR procedure and can frame their request in the proper and specific terms necessary to obligate the city under the law to produce what they are looking for - can also request and presumably get the same information. It is public information that is being requested and the city’s release of it means that the SPD’s public disclosure lawyers (isn’t one of them named Spiering and related to an SPD officer?) have already decided it is not protected.
So why not post it for all to see.
This case - the slaughter of Otto Zehm on the altar of unchecked police power - is a monumental case in Spokane history. These documents belong to the people.
I am just curious as to your justification for holding onto them. Not taking you to task, just asking.
arroyoribera on January 15 at 1:08 p.m.
Just to clarify, that SPD public disclosure attorney is (or at least was) Jeanie Spiering.
http://spokanepoliceabuses.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/police-records-missing-have-jeanie-spering-check-the-storage-closet/
Ed Byrnes on January 15 at 1:46 p.m.
David,
Thank you for your excellent work on this issue, and for keeping it alive.
In November 2010 I did a probability analysis and concluded that 16% of the SPD saluted the offender, for a one in six chance of a civilian encountering one of these officers, and conversely five to one odds of NOT encountering a SPD officer who supported the convicted federal offender.
Based on your data, 82 out of 290 officers were fb supporters of the offender, which is 28% of the force, leaving us civlians with between a one in three and one in four chance of encountering an officer who supports the convicted offender, and conversely between two to one and three to one odds of NOT encountering a SPD officer who supported the convicted federal offender.
These data clearly support the assertion, stated by numerous people in several venues, that there is a major culture issue within the SPD.
Since Brian’s PDR experience demonstrates official reluctance to deal with the cultural problem I, as a member of our community, am deeply grateful to you for your substantial work in creating transparency about local law enforcement within our community.
Ed Byrnes
misjustice on January 15 at 2:26 p.m.
I have been following this thread for days and am posting to say thank you to David, Ed, Ron, and Brian for your thoughtful and informative contributions to this thread, and others addressing our out of control city police department.
It is clear that this city has a problem with the paramilitary SPD. What remains uncertain is IF that problem can be solved, or IF the paramilitary SPD will continue to dominate and intimidate citizens rather than to serve and protect.
I highly doubt that the new mayor will be able to change the paramilitary mindset/culture of the SPD, as it is so entrenched and often times unseen by the citizens; until we have a blatant display of their out of control culture, like was demonstrated by the very public beatdown and ulitmately the murder of Mr. Zehm.
I find it especially troubling that many officers have no hesitation to post to these threads, and taunt us using their own names.
They are emboldened because they know that they hold all of the power in a dysfunctional legal “system”, there are no consequences for them when they publicly attack citizens in an open forum, and should any of us be unfortunate enough to encounter an officer such as Ms. Davida Zinkgraf while she is on duty it will be our word against her’s; and we all know that the “system” will uphold the officer’s words/acts while dismissing our concerns about their very fitness to wear the SPD badge.
The dysfunction of our local legal “system” extends beyond just the paramilitary SPD; it bleeds over into the Prosecuting Attorney’s office, it has infiltrated the higher administrative offices of City Hall, and has even filtered down to ordinary citizens - those that think the cops can do no wrong even when we have an horrific example of their dysfunction such as the Otto Zehm case - making the problem especially difficult (if not impossible) to address.
I am of the opinion that the entire SPD needs to be disbanded, and that we need to start over with new hires from outside of the district.
I do not endorse combining the SPD with the Sheriff’s Department because that will not get to the root of the problem. A “fresh start” is warranted here if we are to ever have a police department that truly serves and protects the people of this community, instead of serving and protecting their own members.
Shelala on January 15 at 5:10 p.m.
It is interesting that one of the city’s solutions is to demilitarize the police department (whatever that really means), but take a long look at the organization. Although I heartily support our returning military veterans and see their need to re-enter the work force, we also need to look for the preference given to those returning soldiers in filling the ranks of law enforcement. They are given a veterans preference in civil service hiring and bring those specialized skills in weapons, physical performance and the mind set to match, that are acquired within only a few select previous jobs, such as the military. The internal “ranks” also reflect a paramilitary organization. Where else in public employment are the designations such as managers, lead workers, etc, replaced by corporals, sgts and chiefs? There are strict uniform standards and they attend academies and not colleges or simply training. Even the actual training is more similar to a military boot camp than to any employment related training that many of us are familiar with. The fact that a salute was given in the federal courtroom instead of a cheer should tell you something too. And we scratch our heads wondering why the SPD is militaristic? We got what we hired and trained for. Years ago in California, a police chief tried (and failed) to demilitarize his department by putting officers in suit blazers and friendly looking patrol cars. It didn’t work for a lot of reasons, but mainly because it failed to reflect the elitist attitude that has been engrained within the position by the rank in file. The state tried to eliminate the negative stereotype of welfare by insisting that workers call welfare recipients “customers”. This too was a dismal failure. IMO, the only way to demilitarize our police is to change the attitude and the rest will fall into place. Only when the military system begins to feel out of place will change take place. I’ve never had to ask for a sergeant at a store when I wanted to speak to a manager. It’s a mind set.
brianrbreen on January 15 at 5:53 p.m.
@Mr. Brookbank
My PDR was project focused, and pertains specifically to the “salute”. The process is also expensive. I have 642 emails to go through and some of the material isn’t the least bit relevant, as an example, I don’t think any one cares what kind of nutrition bars someone eats.
Having put forth the effort and expense to do this project I feel I’m entitled to decide what I feel is important to disseminate, any one else could do the same thing I did and do whatever the want to with the data. The SR could have done the same thing I have done and I’m sure would redact or hold back some of the non-issue emails. The same is true of the CFJ.
If the inference is that I’m holding things back that might reflect poorly on the SPD, then so be it. But I would think one would have to realize that I’m as upset about the “salute” as most are.
My intent in doing this project is obvious, I don’t want it swept under the rug. Regardless of what I find that would support my position regarding discipline, and in my view I have found some things, the ultimate decision in that regard is however with Mayor Condon. Should Mayor Condon decide not to do anything I would like to be in a position to support my opinion with facts. I not sure if you understand what “hold backs” are, but quite simply it is stupid to show what may well be your opponent in a card game all of your cards.
You might note that the original position of Mayor Verner, Chief Kirkpatrick, The City Council, The Officers themselves and others was that they could express their First Amendment Rights like everyone else. I knew that was not true and I believe I was the first to point that out. I also spent some money to have a lawyer review the case law in the context of the salute, which supports my position. Officers have been successfully disciplined all over the country for making public statements/expressions that have reflected poorly on their departments, and someone would have to provide me with a pretty good reason as to why it wasn’t done here.
I will note this, with respect to the emails I have received. It appears that Mr. Martin the individual heading the committee to review the Zehm case for the city requested information from Howard Delaney regarding OPM (Open Public Meeting) guidelines. I’m not sure why, perhaps they don’t want the public involved in their meetings, but that isn’t the focus of my little project. If anyone wants to make an issue of a lack of public involvement in the City review of the Zehm case that is something they certainly can do.
brianrbreen on January 15 at 6:26 p.m.
@Mr. Brookbank
I did forget to mention regarding my PDRs. As I noted earlier Rocco Treppiedi in the city attorney’s office for some reason reviewed my PDRs. I do not know if they were reviewed by anyone else.
greenlibertarian on January 15 at 6:37 p.m.
I was in the courtroom for the appearance after the salute. As I mentioned here at the time, it appeared to me that maybe 8 or 9 LEOS were in the courtroom. They cast stone cold furrowed brow expressions, especially towards anybody on Otto’s side of the courtroom. Creepy it was.
I’m not adverse to making a choice mini-statement if the form of a large cough a la the Student Fraternity Kangeroo Court in Animal House… but I chickened out. Creepy, I tell you.
Thanks all for chiming in. David, you’re as lucid and entertaining as ever, man.
In a perfect world the Saluters would indeed be facing highly serious disciplinary action, up to and including termination. But this world, and Spokalooney, is far far from perfect.
It seems, so far, from Brian, that there’s no evidence the Chief warned off, formally or informally, the officers not to go to the hearing if on duty or in uniform, and to mind their p’s and q’s. Apparently that was a lie.
I consider it a much more serious breach if they had defied an order from the commanding officer.
It was still beyond arrogant and stupid.
brianrbreen on January 15 at 6:58 p.m.
@Green
You aren’t the only one that says they got “the evil eye”, and apparently Tom Clouse got more than the evil eye.
Here are just a very few of the media reports regarding officers disciplined. The first one is interesting from the standpoint of the Ninth Circuits Decision.
http://www.apbweb.com/court-rulings-news-menu-100/644-porn-termination-upheld.html
http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2011/nov/16/bainbridge-police-officer-suspended-for/
http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2011/nov/16/bainbridge-police-officer-suspended-for/
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/11/attorney_orange_cop_was_fired.html
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19981022&slug=2779039
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/iteam&id=8433193
Ed Byrnes on January 15 at 8:35 p.m.
Brian,
Having gotten to know you a bit I trust what you are doing and appreciate all the investigative work you are putting into your effort.
I also appreciate what David is doing and put that in writing earlier in this thread.
I want to be crystal clear that I am grateful for both or your independent efforts, and that my assessment is that we are on the same side, all three of us and many more.
Ed Byrnes
brianrbreen on January 15 at 10:26 p.m.
@Ed
I appreciate that. My little deal is my little deal, and what comes of it comes of it.
Please let me know if you receive any contact from the Ombudsman regarding your complaint.
I was encouraged by the fact that there were many complaints to the SPD on their own website complaint process including a lengthy well written one from a retired “Cali-cop” (not Ron Wright) who apparently had read media reports down there and he basically summed things up.
From the standpoint of complaints and media attention the more there is the better position the City is in to defend any disciplinary action they take regarding the salute.
But in my view they have more than enough right now to demonstrate that the disciplinary action resulted from a legitimate administrative interest, which outweighed the officers First Amendment Rights.
@Mr. Brookbank
I suppose Sgt King (“Employed at God”) can refer to his employment any way he wants, the officer in the link below did.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/07/us/07police.html?_r=1
Ron_the_Cop on January 16 at 10:36 a.m.
To All:
I tend to agree with Brian all is not lost at SPD. We both understand how things work in the inner sanctum that is rarely seen but outsiders and or depicted in the media and cop shows.
The root problem at SPD has been ineffective and poor leadership from a cohort of leaders that were hired during Expo that have gravitated to the top. This will change hopefully soon if Mayor Condon plays his cards right.
The salute was a very poor move but may work to our benefit. As Brian has said many in SPD were following a false prophet - Thompson. The leadership failed to address this. The Chief, the City Attorney, the County Prosecutor and Mayor Verner said Thompson did no wrong. Both Brian and I knew otherwise. The feds came in, did their job, played hardball and demanded accountability. Local LE has never experienced this before. When the conviction came down the rank and file were shocked and in utter disbelief.
Here’s my punch list for Mayor Condon:
Fire City Attorney DeLaney and Asst. City Attorney Roco Treppiedi
Fire Fire Chief Bobby Williams
Fire CFO Gavin Cooley
Bring in an outside forensic financial auditor to go through all general fund accounts and enterprise accounts esp the Waste of Energy Plant.
(During the presentation - it was said there is no unifying accounting system across the City departments. RED FLAG for inappropriate expenditures of funds without oversight.)
No formation of a fire district as floated at this meeting as long as Fire Chief Williams is in control.
Specific recommendations for SPD:
No discussion of the consolidation of the SO/SPD until the remedying of the immediate problems with SPD are well under way.
Continue to encourage that the feds initiate a pattern and practice investigation of SPD.
Request the US Attorney’s Office expand its current criminal investigation to include any who aided and or abetted in the over cover-up and to prosecute where possible for obstruction of justice.
Immediately lobby the County Board of Commissioners to require all OIS/OIDs be reviewed by an inquest panel (as discussed before) once the criminal investigation is handed of to the Co Prosecutor for review. This one act will go a long way to shoring up these investigations and bring real change quickly up without requiring any negotiations on MOUs and or increasing the authority of the SPD Ombudsman.
Notice since these problematic OIS/OIDs were spotlighted by the media there has been a shift in police tactics e.g., the use of less than lethal alternatives when there is time to deploy them - the recent use of a shotgun beanbag to defuse a dangerous domestic incident. The shooting of the recent suspect upside down in his vehicle with SWAT on scene IMO from the media accounts perhaps could have been handled better. Just say’n.
I never want to place an officer in a position where he/she hesitates and is injured and or killed. I want them to go home to their families at the end of their shifts. I’ve been to too many cop funerals in my career. HOWEVER with good policy, good training, and tactics some of these problematic OIS/OIDs could have been deescalated without resulting in lethal force and or serious injury. Unfortunately even with the best intentions things can go sideways requiring the use of lethal force.
[Continued]
Ron_the_Cop on January 16 at 10:38 a.m.
[Continued from above]
Bottom line this is the difference in the rules of engagement (ROE) between our military in an active war zone and civilian law enforcement in a civil society. In the end to be effective the community and the police should trust each other - we are the police and the police are us. We are a nation of laws and no one even the police SHOULD BE ABOVE THE LAW.
Immediately do a top down review of the SPD academy’s curriculum especially the use of force training/instruction. In some of these cases officers through poor tactics created the exigent circumstances that lead to the use of lethal force. From their testimony at the Thompson trial the two current SPD instructors should be reassigned.
Make it a top priority to hire a new chief quickly. One that is a change agent for no longer than a two-year period to weed out those who are not willing to change. Then bring in a chief that is a strong leader but also a consensus builder that can bring the department back together again.
Shelala on January 16 at 11:22 a.m.
@Ron
While I agree with most of your posts, I take exception to this comment.” We both understand how things work in the inner sanctum that is rarely seen but outsiders and or depicted in the media and cop shows.”. IMO, that is exactly whats wrong with current SPD. It is not, nor should it ever be, a sort of closed society or elitist group. To perpetuate this ideal through claiming insider knowledge, connections or understanding flies in the face of reform.This belief is what created that so-called thin blue line in the first place. I am much closer to LE than you iknow, but I also know when something is broken and can not be repaired without some type of replacement taking place.
liveinfearoftheSPD on January 16 at 11:51 a.m.
@Ron
I must respectfully disagree with your position on leadership.
You keep preaching that the cops act the way they do is a result of a lack of leadership.
Do you need someone to lead you and hold your hand every-time you go out into public so you act appropriately?
This barrel of bad apples have no morals, they act as if they don’t know right from wrong. The leaders cannot be there for every call an officer goes on to hold their hands.
Poor leadership has no bearing on how a bad cop will act or react to any given circumstance. They are adults that should know the proper way to act. But instead they, along with you, want to blame leadership.
Ron_the_Cop on January 16 at 12:04 p.m.
Liveinfearofthe SPD,
Short of disbanding the SPD an starting over, this will take some time. The change has already begun the $64 question is whether Condon will make the right moves and not cave to the interests of the Guild.
What Brian and I are saying is there are bad apples that must be weeded out. There are good cops but if the leadership won’t take action on the bad apples it very difficult for the good cops to peer sanction the bad ones. If you P/O the bad ones you can end up with slow and or no backup on calls. If you speak out and the leaders won’t take care of business you’re screwed. The salute was misdirected and the followers followed the bad apples.
The FB page those who were posting there and the salute will not go unnoticed by the feds Brian said some of the FB posts were sanctioned by Feist this would be a clue to Condon to clean house at City Hell. IMO this is where the reals problems are that have allowed the SPD to go out of control - ROCO TREPPIEDI!!!. Off with his head if you want real change to occur:-) I’m speaking rhetorically of course. The departure of Treppiedi will be a sign if Condon is really serious about regaining the trust of the citizens in SPD.
Ron_the_Cop on January 16 at 12:05 p.m.
Of course beyond the control of Condon is Steve Tucker that the voters will have to deal with.
misjustice on January 16 at 12:14 p.m.
“City Hell”
Lol, Ron!
; )
Well, Rocco still has his job; I don’t think that Condon has any intention of cutting him loose. So much for change…
A fish rots from the head down…and so does a city.
Shelala on January 16 at 12:24 p.m.
@Iliveinfear
I have to agree with you. Leadership will set the direction and guide any organization towards a common goal, but it shouldn’t have to be expected to teach its employees that along with power, comes responsibility.Those type of core values are present or not. Sometimes those individuals will seek out those jobs that will allow their need to bully to vent. Just as a soldier becomes hardened to seeing war or a fireman seeing the aftermath of tragic fires, it is possible for some to become blind or even cavalier in their application of force among the citizens. What is woefully lacking is insight and self control - both personal values that are difficult or impossible to train. A bully is a bully.
Shelala on January 16 at 12:35 p.m.
I have found if you don’t feed that alley cat, he will leave. No need to find a stronger cat to lead him away, no need to try and tame him first or even trap him. Reduce funding to the point changes will have to be made within SPD to function.Soon it will be far too costly to spend tight money on lawsuits and bad personnel decisions and they will be back begging for more taxpayer dollars. The public may then have some say where and why it is given and spent.
Ron_the_Cop on January 16 at 3:04 p.m.
Shelala,
Sorry I didn’t mean to imply that either Brian or I were elitist. It’s just the Thin Blue Line as you suggest is a very real reality. It’s very much a band of brothers each owing allegiance to the group. Violate the tenets of the group at your own peril.
Read the review by the S-R of the book Breaking Blue by NYT awarding winning and bestselling author/reporter Timothy Egan based on a murder that was covered by members of the SPD for many decades:
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/interactive/bookclub/reviews/staff_review.asp?RevID=24
And you will understand why there is so much animosity expressed by some members of SPD torwards Brian and me. We are breaking blue. I would counter them with this article by Lt. Col., “On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs” - http://www.killology.com/sheep_dog.htm
…The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.
My recommendations are based on what I believe will bring the change we all desire in the shortest amount of time short of disbanding the SPD and starting all over.
I would like to add to my punch list for SPD
Purchase and require the use of personal lapel video cameras.
Yes you are quite correct the right people need to be hired from the very beginning. Don’t skimp on backgrounds that happened here during the run up to Expo and what happened to LAPD with an infusion of money to rapidly expand its ranks.
Shelala on January 16 at 3:44 p.m.
@Ron
Your quote:”It’s very much a band of brothers each owing allegiance to the group. Violate the tenets of the group at your own peril.”. I think that usually describes a bunch of gangbangers. The longer these issues stand unaddressed publicly, the less patience I have or trust in the internal ability to “reform” the department. I have little use for trying to psychoanalyze why they behave improperly, for trying to search for a leader to who will help them understand why it is not appropriate to salute a felon or for any effort to otherwise coddle. I don’t care about letters in their file, days off or even re-training a bad apple towards reform. I think the public has drawn that proverbial line in the sand - no more. IMO we have gone beyond that popular management adage of “If you can’t do the job, I can find plenty who will.” We should be now searching for those who can do the job and leave these bad apples in the the dust. Condon could have taken a firm stand and put action behind his political platform. What do we have?-a bunch of committees, a long time cop leading the other cops and the same legal bunch spewing advice.
misjustice on January 16 at 3:58 p.m.
Disband the SPD, the Guild, and start all over; with non-union, out side new hires.
Unfortunately, that’s the only change that will get the attention of the “thin blue line”, and that will ensure that WE the people will have a measure of control over OUR public servants.
*sigh*
Condon doesn’t have the balls to do this so we will have half-stepped measures that may tweak the dysfunctional legal system around the edges but will leave the internal dynamo in place; thereby ensuring that the dysfunction will still be entrenched behind a facade of “change”.
Shelala on January 16 at 4:00 p.m.
Maybe I am too hard nosed in wanting to see the SPD’s saluting 50 and other bad apples gone, unemployed, nada. What do other posters think?
misjustice on January 16 at 4:05 p.m.
Well, you are more tolerant than I am; I want every single member of the SPD fired. It’s too difficult to tell the good guys/gals from the bad ones - fire them all - make a clean sweep.
But I’m a radical, I think that public servants should, well, serve the public and not themselves and their poster boy KTK.
liveinfearoftheSPD on January 16 at 4:40 p.m.
I too am inclined to take the radical approach MisJ mentions.
If just one officer had stood up and bucked that blue line, I would be saying ‘there’ is the new chief.
As it is today, it is obvious to me, none can be trusted.
arroyoribera on January 16 at 4:45 p.m.
Misjustice above on January 15 at 2:26 p.m. and Shelala at 5:10 pm make very important points regarding the “militarization” of the SPD. We should not lose sight of this issue and should pursue it on our own. The fact that the new mayor’s team even found need to use the term “demilitarization” of the SPD causes great concern. Yet the photo of “use of force trainer” Rob Boothe in my first post about on 1/13 at 12:18 pm and this photo of the SPD armored vehicle (see page 3) http://www.spokanepolice.org/Documents/SPD%20Newsletter/110108edition.pdf as well as its purchases of military weaponry make clear that the transition team know more than has been publicly revealed about the extent of militarization of the SPD.
All the more reason to keep the SPD out of the hands of Sheriff and former Army man Ozzie Knezovich (and former Olympia PD Guild Vice President) and to do public disclosure requests on current and future military weapons planning by the SPD and SCSO (to include discussions about, plans for or requests to acquire drones).
@BrianRBreen: Brian, As I and others said, I appreciate and respect your effort. True indeed you are under no obligation to share the information you have received through public disclosure. You mention your request was “project focused” and we anxiously await the results of the project. But as the Wikileaks release of US government files suggests, disclosures like this probably contain more than enough “project foci” to go around. I still encourage you to change your mind and post the information on a web page and encourage others to exhort you to do so. I still believe that the information you have received belongs to the public, hence “Public Disclosure Request (PDR)”, and it would be a “public service” to make it available via a website. I am sure we could fairly easily raise the money to reimburse your costs for obtaining it thus saving others the cost of having to duplicate request. If not, perhaps a group of people should meet to discuss what information - cases, issues, incidents - to pursue from the SPD and city and begin to post it ourselves. Some of the impetus for that comes from comments like the Seer’s at 9:48 AM on 1/14 (quote) breen: Word is out Amacio will talk for free. Just sayin’. (unquote). Talk for free about what specifically? Let’s drive this conversation ourselves. Publicly available information is one of the keys to that.
@Ed Byrnes: So good to see you and so many other thousands today at the Martin Luther King rally and march. Very powerful!
And in light of your statistical analyis above, Ed, (link to Ed’s comment at http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/jan/13/condon-team-big-on-ideas-and-jargon/?comments#c396787), I have to reflect on the massive law enforcement presence today.
Your wrote: (quote) Based on your data, 82 out of 290 officers were (facebook) supporters of the offender, which is 28% of the force, leaving us civlians with between a one in three and one in four chance of encountering an officer who supports the convicted offender, and conversely between two to one and three to one odds of NOT encountering a SPD officer who supported the convicted federal offender. (end quote) (By the say, I missed Officer Keven Vaughn so it is 83 current officers who signed the FB page).
So today on this march we were being euphemistically “protected” by a significant numbers of official, out of the closet supporters of the man who initiated the actions that resulted in the slaughter of Otto Zehm. (Using the definition of slaughter to mean “to kill an innocent person in a brutal or violent manner.)
(continued below - David Brookbank)
arroyoribera on January 16 at 4:45 p.m.
(continued from above)
As my list above of the 82 SPD officers who signed the We Support Karl Thompson facebook page shows (link to it at http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/jan/13/condon-team-big-on-ideas-and-jargon/?comments#c396343), officers involved in highly questionable and inadequately scrutinzed killings patrol the streets of communities everyday.
Those who signed the I Support Karl Thompson Facebook page include four Spokane Police Officers - Gordon Ennis, Tim Moses, Kevin Vaughn (one whose name I did not identify as an SPD officer above, raising the number to 83) and Ryan Snider - who were among those SPD officers who grossly mishandled the Josh Levy incident on the Monroe Street bridge, which ended in Josh’s suicide and a subsequent $1.75 million law suit against the city and those officers. http://spokanepoliceabuses.wordpress.com/2007/07/28/id-have-jumped-too/
Note from the lawsuit filing that one of the officers sued was also, yes, Karl Thompson. http://images.bimedia.net/documents/020510-monroe-bridge-suicide.pdf
Also signing the Facebook page was Michele Madsen (wife of SPD Detective Tim Madsen) who via a shot to the face killed 15 year old deaf Native American boy Eagle Michael on 9/27/03.
Also signing were Kevin Vaughn, Trammal (Mel) Tayor), and Brian Eckersley, involved in the 1/7/2002 Intermodal Shooting. Also involved in that incident were two as of yet unprosecuted SPD officers involved in killing Otto Zehm - the notorious Dan Torok and the disgraced and fired Jason Uberuaga.
Additional FB signer were Officers John Gately and Nate Spiering, SWAT team members involved in the highly questioned shooting in the face of 17 year of Sean Fitzpatrick on 9/22/2003 inside Lewis and Clark High School.
And Thompson FB signer Officer Gordon Ennis appears again when while speeding, driving without his lights and siren, and while typing on his computer, hit and killed a pedestrian in the crosswalk on Monroe Street on Jan 30, 2011. (Not surprisingly former police officer and Ombudsman Tim Burns called the crash “just one of those regrettable situations.” Charges were dropped against Ennis.)
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sirens/tags/gordon-ennis/
Finally Thompson FB signer Officer Trammel “Mel” Taylor violated my civil rights during the visit of US Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to Spokane on 6/27/2007 when, as part of dignataries team of the SPD and dressed in plain clothes, he told me I would be arrested if I did not get off the sidewalk in front of the West Central Community Center and then ordered me to stand by myself in a “designated protest area” in the park. http://spokanepoliceabuses.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/the-man-who-broke-the-camels-back/
I will admit to NEVER being comforted by the presence of law enforcement. I always fear that something will go wrong in the encounter. That a misunderstood statement or the officer recognizing my name or a misinterpreted glance or gesture will result in me or someone of innocent person being beaten down, tasered, hog-tied, masked and killed. It is troubling that so many officers involved in controversial incidents (and I have only list a few of the incidents) are open Thompson supporters.
But then that is the reality and danger of the concept “thin blue line” as I use it. I use it not as it is sometimes used, i.e., that the “thin blue line” of police is all that separates orderly society from chaos, but rather I use it as the bond that has officers lying for on another, saluting an Officer Thompson in federal court after a five year struggle for justice, and that causes reasonable people to distrust a former officer like Tim Burns when he is cast in the role of an “ombudsman”.
David Brookbank
misjustice on January 16 at 5:45 p.m.
When I was growing up the common term for police officers was “pig”; which was, no doubt, a holdover from the sixties and seventies.
My parents tried to instill in their children respect for police officers and would never have tolerated us calling them “pigs”. I have to wonder though, now, after the militarization of police departments across this nation if that slang term isn’t appropriate? And I also wonder how much the ‘war on terror’, initiated by the inept administration of the chickenhawks Bush and Cheney, has contributed to the militarization of local police departments?
We, the citizens that the PDs are supposed to serve, are not the problem; outta control cops are. I don’t trust ANY of them because there is no way to discern the good guys/ gals from the BAD.
The only way to cleanse this town of the dysfuntional legal system that is deeply entrenched is to fire Rocco, vote out the PA No-charge Tucker, disband The Guild, and terminate all members currently serving as members of the SPD. Anything less will ensure that the change we seek will only be a whitewashing; and the facade of “change” will hide the root problem.
If I am ever approached by a member of the SPD, even if it is just for a minor traffic stop, I will NOT stop. I will get on my cell phone, via 9-1-1, and will drive to the nearest Firedepartment so that I have a witness to the traffic stop.
Enough time has passed since my nasty interaction with officer Davida Zinkgraf on these threads that the SPD could have easily gotten my ISP and now know the real identity of Misjustice; and I would NEVER willingly stop for an officer of the SPD out of fear that the officer would use their authority to intentionally hurt me in retaliation for my views posted to these threads.
Pretty sad that a child, raised by parents to respect cops, is now so fearful of them; due only to the actions, which are documented on a public forum and through their public acts, of a few bad actors. That is the REALITY wrought by the SPD.
Moreover, should I ever witness a cop that was being overcome by a suspect and needed help I would turn and walk away. Ya’ll are on your own. Sorry for that but it’s not like you haven’t brought my reluctance to assist you onto yourselves.
AND don’t worry, should I or my property be attacked by a criminal, I will defend myself. I am armed, I have many medals for marksmanship from my time in the Army and I can defend myself; I won’t be calling the cops for any help, as if they’d be for me anyways.
Pretty sad commentary on the state of affairs in the city of Spokan’t…
Just sayin’…
??Riddler?? on January 16 at 8:49 p.m.
?? Cali-Copulation ??
Provide your own definition.
But keep it clean.
arroyoribera on January 17 at 12:52 a.m.
Misjustice, Could you direct me to the exchange with Davida Zinkgraf that you refer to above? I missed it and am curious.
I understand your fears of the SPD and other law enforcement, something I will describe further on another occasion.
I do remember that one of Ms. Zinkgraf’s four letters to the editor in the last few years was this one in 2009 attacking PJAL’s director Liz Moore.
http://www.spokesman.com/letters/2009/jul/08/re-director-peace-and-justice-action-league-liz-mo/
David Brookbank
ChefGus/ John Olsen on January 17 at 6:27 a.m.
Well good morning Men and Women.. Just read this whole string and am very happy for all the information on this. My memory is that “old” strings can usually be found “out there” as links … if you poke around…so Frank Sennett’s Hard 7 and all the aforementioned information back early on in this tussle are likely still available…( bet Mr Sennett can help with that..and he went to Chicago or some such)
Thank you one and all for the long and convoluted but essential string above.
I apologize for not being in the loop for the past several weeks. Now having time I will be making some comments from time to time.
The “list of 50” is likely an easy one to form…because the day of the trial, one of the news station video taped each and every one of the officers coming out of the court house..and although circumstantial..likely any police officer that was at that verdict was also an officer that stood and saluted.
“Conduct Unbecoming and Officer” is the simple, best and most effective way to move forward with some discipline for those men and women., Not Easy, but Simple.
David… fine to see you the other day…
Remember the Public Safety Meeting this day on the fifth floor at 1330 which will have Mr Stuckarts items around the policing issues.
This has to stop. Mr Condon must step up and do his duty , or he will merely become yet another government pol that does not take his Oath of Office and promise to uphold our Constitution seriously.
I loved the Sheep Dog/Wolf contrast.
There is a great movie Mississippi Burning which gives insight in to the process whereby a group of otherwise good people become co opted by the KKK in the deep South, in much the same way as the Highly educated, and acculturated German people fell in with the Gestapo tactics.
Just remember Pastor Niemoler
When they came to get the A, B,C I was not one so I did not protest… So those of us that are upper middle class, white and have some voice sit in our chairs on our hands and do not raise our voice …. we risk just being the last one’s to be put upon by the vile force of repression. Best to you all John
brianrbreen on January 17 at 8:16 a.m.
@Mr. Brookbank
I’m not defending Ms. Zinkgraf’s LTE in response to Ms Moore, not very artfully done in my view. However I think it is important to remember that the US Supreme Court has said that public employees have a property right in their public sector job and therefore are entitled to due process when it comes to disciplinary actions taken against them. That means Cops, Teachers, Garbage Collectors, Street Crews, and so forth have the same protections in that regard.
Had KT been a public school teacher he would have had the same due process rights he had as a cop and prior to any discipline for anything he had done he would have been suspended with pay prior to the outcome of his due process. In the Zehm case unfortunately it has taken too damn long for a number of reasons. As unpalatable as it may seem the only choice the City had was to suspend him with pay for the short time they did. The City chose to bring him back on the job and placed him in an administrative position, reviewing training material and attending Senior Staff Meetings. Something I have always viewed as stupid, but it certainly shows the unequivocal support Chief Kirkpatrick had for him, and at least the City got some work for the money they were spending.
My point is Davida Zinkgraf was accurate to a limited extent in her response to Ms. Moore. But I think it would have behooved Ms. Zinkgraf to consider that in most cases folks just don’t have a complete understanding of how difficult issues involving the discipline of public secretor employees can be and instead of in essence attacking Ms. Moore perhaps she should have made an effort to try and explain her position.
@ChefGus
I whole-heartedly agree that the “Salute” represented “Conduct Unbecoming”, and I believe there is ample reason, supported by law, to discipline the officers involved. The question now remains, if City Government has any interest in doing so, or will it be a matter of “it is now water under the bridge”.
The_Seer on January 17 at 8:39 a.m.
brian: You could not be more wrong about a teacher continuing to work in schools had they beaten and tasered a student. That type of misconduct would result in immediate termination under a clause in our contract that prohibits injuring those in our care due to willful negligence.
I know a teacher who was removed from a contracted positionsfor using the word “balls” instead of “gumption” or “nerve.” As in “you had the balls to go to the Principal about this but not talk to me?”
brianrbreen on January 17 at 9:04 a.m.
@Seer
I don’t believe I’m wrong, but if I am I’m willing to admit it. I’ve had several PUBLIC school teachers for clients all of whom were accused of misconduct and the district was required by law to provide dues process, all were suspended with pay pending the outcome of in some cases criminal charges, and others only disciplinary action. I would suggest you contact your union rep and ask them. There is a difference between public and private schools, as the teachers in private schools are not employed in the public sector.
An allegation against a publics employee is just that, an allegation, and until such time as it is investigated and substantiated, prior to termination or discipline the district is required to place the teacher on paid administrative leave, unless the contract allows for immediate termination with out due process, which I highly doubt. I’m sure anyone from Dist 81 or any other Dist for that matter would back me up on that.
Ron_the_Cop on January 17 at 10:08 a.m.
@ChefGus,
I’ve been wondering where you’ve been:-)
@Brian,
I agree with your assessment re allegations before they are investigated.
Also interesting if my complaint is now an inquiry only on the SPD salute. At a minimum this should be a letter in p files for CUBO. Chief Kirkpatrick and Mayor Verner are wrong about this being protected free speech. The fact that the salute is being tolerated says more than the officers involved in the salute.
Gee I never got my Chief letter and or a notice from OPO Burns. What gives?
For that matter I haven’t received any notice about my complaints against Chief Kirkpatrick either re the Savage case and or SPD’s investigation of the Creach OIS.
@David
I’m reluctant to paint all at SPD with a broad brush as “Gestapo agents et al” as some are willing to do. Most definitely there are serious issues with SPD that have gone unaddressed for a long time. I fault management and City leadership for allowing this to occur more than I do the rank and file.
Please remember I’m on your list of Spokane police personalities of note as #1:-). While we are probably at the opposite ends of the political spectrum we are in agreement with SPD. Good law enforcement should not be ideological based. I think you’ve found me to be a more complex person having since met me personally at several City Council meetings where I’ve Spokane openly about SPD’s serious problems.
BTW the reference to “burn baby burn” you found for me was a little prescient:-) Probably the greatest single strategic threat to the US is the Iranian Regime who ruthlessly suppresses it’s people. At the time I made this comment during the uprising of the Iranian people a few well placed grenades in the last functioning Iranian gas refinery with plausible denial would have been enough to allow the people to topple this fanatical regime. Also our strategic foreign policy in this region has been biased on the steady supply of cheap oil. This has led to some strange bedfellows including the House of Saud that is probably the biggest hypocrite in the Islamic World.
The_Seer on January 17 at 10:18 a.m.
brian: You are correct in stating our contract are subject to due process. But I’ll guarantee if I beat, tasered and hogtied a student I wouldn’t just be placed on admin leave. I’d be dismissed outright because I violated a term of my contract to not beat, taser and hogtie my students.
misjustice on January 17 at 10:31 a.m.
David, re; Davida Zinkgraf, there are several threads:
http://m.spokesman.com/stories/2011/dec/19/judge-denies-thompsons-acquittal-request/
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/dec/23/thompson-attorneys-allege-misconduct/
I have other stuff, mostly screen captures from the KTK FaceBook site but it’s on my home computer. I’ll send those along later tonight.
There may be ANOTHER “misjustice” on the one thread, but is NOT me; a person formerly known as Gramma and then JustMeAgain co-opted my screen name for awhile until the moderators removed her posting privileges but her posts using my name are still in the archives. My posts feature Ms. Justice with a blindfold and scales, the same avatar that I have used for almost 4 years….and which is attached to this post.
And on the one thread, Davida Zinkgraf gave me grief for words that were not mine, they were from the imposter msj; and despite asking for an apology Zinkgraf never came back onto the thread to admit that she’d made a mistake.
I’ll admit, on the one thread, I was baiting her. Just messin’ around and I got the reaction that I was seeking; she lost it. I pushed her buttons, intentionally - likely as some suspects do when interacting with her - and she could not keep her composure. Which I believe additionally raises questions of her “fitness” to wear the badge.
At any rate, gotta get back to the salt mine…work.
; )
Shelala on January 17 at 10:32 a.m.
I am very familiar with public employees having due process regarding discipline, but I am unnerved by the amount of time it seems to take to investigate the issues in order to conduct a hearing and the lack of concern about the severity of these allegations that would merit suspension and termination. Other public agencies seem to be able to recognize and address the issues to their resolution within a reasonable time, as is required in some contracts.Take a look at the largest pool of public employees - our state government and note their disciplinary process complete with deadlines https://fortress.wa.gov/dop/prb/. Apparently, the local police guild has more clout than even the employer. Instead of the city working with the guild, it appears the city works FOR the guild.
misjustice on January 17 at 10:34 a.m.
KTK violated police policy; I read the SPD Policy Handbook and he committed several violations during his interaction/beatdown of Otto Zehm.
Just sayin’…
Ron_the_Cop on January 17 at 11:51 a.m.
Ms. Justy,
I’m with you re former Ofc. Thompson. It’s one thing to wait for a criminal case to conclude locally but as you see in a federal case it can drag on for many years. SPD should have done there own IA investigation in the meantime and terminated Thompson if warranted based on their own policy/practices.
I believe what happened in this case is the City was trying to limit its civil liability since they were saying Thompson did nothing wrong e.g., Treppiedi! Well this tactic just blew up in their face instead of resolving this case much earlier.
This will cost all of us taxpayers millions of dollars. Our City officials who were responsible for this debacle should be held accountable. That’s why I’m so adamant that Condon should immediately fire Delaney and Treppiedi. This will be the tell tail sign if Condon means business.
brianrbreen on January 17 at 12:29 p.m.
@Seer
I know exactly where you are coming from. My point was that public employers have to be very careful how they handle discipline issues, or as is evidenced it can cost the employer millions.
Public school teachers in the past have been falsely accused of sexual abuse, physical abuse, harassment, and a multitude of other rotten things. By the same token teachers have been rightly accused of the same. The problem is the employer has to use caution in how they handle these issues to make sure it isn’t a false accusation and in doing so they can’t abridge the public school teachers rights to due process.
Much of the law regarding the discipline of police officers stems from SCOTUS decisions regarding other public sector employees including Garbage Collectors and Teachers. I won’t bore you with that, but I will say I want the same protection for Cops, as any other public sector employee. My problem is it hasn’t been done that way here and the City, Chief Kirkpatrick/Mayor Verner/Rocco Treppiedi have decided they can pick and choose who gets their rights.
Having said the above. I mentioned earlier that City Attorney Howard Delaney emailed. Mr. Martin, who I assume (perhaps wrongly and he can prove otherwise), included an email including information regarding Open Meeting Law as well as information regarding how to contact various police agencies in the state) Mr.Martin is the GU law professor Mayor Verner hired to head the review of the Zehm case, what concerns me about that is that it would appear even though the Zehm case is very important to the community steps even now are being taken to prevent the community from having input with respect to the review of the Zehm case.
Mr. Martin, I would love to attend your meetings, however if you think I or any other citizen, and the media would be an impediment to your process, I understand. Just kind of wondering what the result was regarding the research you have done with respect to whether your meetings are open to the public.
Shelala on January 17 at 12:40 p.m.
Nice way to call em out, Brian.
brianrbreen on January 17 at 1:24 p.m.
@Shelala
I’m not calling anyone out, with the possible exception of Mr. Martin, who appears to be concerned about the OPM. Perhaps Mr. Martin would agree that any review of the SPD regarding the Zehm case should be open to the public, and the media present to report what took place. I don’t know.
My position is that prior to Mr.Martin reviewing the Zehm case, it needs to be reviewed from a criminal perspective as Don Brockett and others have pointed out. But I don’t get to decide that nor do you. It is up, for the most part to Mayor Condon, and ultimately to Steve Tucker, or the WA Attorney General, and to a lesser extent the DOJ.
I guess what I’m saying is if you really are concerned and you really want to know what Mayor Condon has agreed to with respect to Mr. Martin, and any review of the Zehm case contact Mr. Martin at GU Law, perhaps he will be willing to tell you what the parameters are.
Shelala on January 17 at 3:49 p.m.
In all reality, anything Condon is prepared to do or will do for the sake of transparency or public input regarding the Zehm case is pure speculation. There simply appears that there is a lot of political posturing and damage control going on in the background, but even that is a guess.IMO it is easier to defend allowing public access than it is to try and defend the need to keep such a controversial issue confidential. As far as integrity and trust is concerned, IMO it is far better to lay it all open and take the hits.
arroyoribera on January 18 at 1:19 a.m.
Misjustice: Thanks for the links re: Officer Zinkgraf.
Regarding the person masquarading as you on the the S-R comment pages, I had a similar experience. The person totally misportrayed my views. In one case the S-R deleted them. In the other not.
John Olsen/Chef Gus: You know I love you, man. Hoping for coffee soon. Sorry to have misspelled your last name. I know where to find you in the early AM (serving the hungry and homeless) but have not been able to make it over.
I have looked incessantly for those links to the comment threads for Sennett’s Hard 7 blog. His blog posts are all there but the comment threads - to my search ability - are not. Frank left Spokane and Hard 7 to become the Editor-in-Chief and President of Time Out Chicago. I will try to contact him. The S-R did promise to replace those threads but to my knowledge has not.
Ron_the_Cop: Yes, we have come to understand one another better over time. I do recall that you and I had a habit of being banned (always temporarily) from the S-R comment pages for missteps and faux pas, sometimes annoying Steve Smith or another of the page monitors.
One can interpret facts around Iran any way they see them. War with Iran will be catastrophic for the Iranian people. It can’t help us anymore than either Iraq or Afghanistan did. If in Spokane, a transition team for a conservative Republican mayor can be talking about the “demilitarization” of the police, then we can certainly find another approach to Iran.
No doubt we will agree to disagree on various things.
To ALL: As to the “demilitarization” issue referred to in the beginning of this article, does anyone know anything more about what it is directed at. I heard someone who was at the public safety meeting today mentioning that there was talk of changing the design of the police uniform. That would certainly put “demilitarization” in the came of “big on ideas - and jargon” not to mention superficial symbolism and major con job. Why is anyone concerned about that phrase? What is prompting it? I am totally thrilled with the idea of ‘demilitarizing’ the SPD as my posts above show but something like this doesn’t just surface out of nowhere. Someone has suggested that Roger Bragdon and Scott Stevens may have something to do with it and referred to ex-Seattle PD Chief Norm Stamper’s change of heart as spelled out in the Yes! magazine article reprinted at Truthout
http://www.truth-out.org/lessons-police-chief-militarization-mistake/1321547745.
In the article entitled “Lessons of a Police Chief: Militarization Is a Mistake”, Stamper looks back on the 1999 Seattle WTO situation and concludes he botched it. Worth reading.
Stamper also discusses “paramilitary policing of the Occupy movement” at http://www.democracynow.org/2011/11/17/paramilitary_policing_of_occupy_wall_street
This topic is going to be important as the already globalized “Arab Spring” is renewed this spring and as the Occupy movement thaws out in the midst of the 2012 election campaign. The US is in shambles, there is still some $27 trillion out there that the elites stole from the people following the October 2008 collapse of the economy, 50 million plus in poverty and millions without jobs (20,000+ in Spokane alone), the politicians lying and stalling and protecting their paymasters, no jobs for our youth, and no real end to war.
We are either going to learn to be community or we are indeed going to have war - at home. As Oliver Tambo said, “The people’s patience is not endless”.
In the end, everyone has to decide: which side are you one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC5o5mVpYPM
ChefGus/ John Olsen on January 18 at 3:08 a.m.
Hi again folks…. well I attended the public safety committee meeting yesterday afternoon.. a large proportion of the City Council, the Interim Chief of Police and the Fire Chief and Mr Burns were there.
The committee worked on and will bring forward a 15 point plan for evolving the force and the way policing is done in this city. I was most impressed and encouraged that folks that might be seen as “the other side” ie the new council members actually all lined up behind the proposal, spoke in favor of it and the demilitarization of our officers appearance and affect. The Police Chief really really seemed on board and helpful and headed the same direction.
It will be brought to City Council for a first reading on the 30th is my understanding. so be happy that things do seem to be moving… there likelyi will be an article on the Center For Justice Web page by Mr Connor who took photo’s and notes. Best john
Ron_the_Cop on January 18 at 6:41 a.m.
Morning ChefGus,
Here’s the link to Connor’s article at the CFJ:
http://www.cforjustice.org/2012/01/16/stuckarts-list/
greenlibertarian on January 18 at 7:34 a.m.
Someone has suggested that Roger Bragdon and Scott Stevens may have something to do with it and referred to ex-Seattle PD Chief Norm Stamper’s change of heart as spelled out in the Yes! magazine article reprinted at Truthout
http://www.truth-out.org/lessons-police-chief-militarization-mistake/1321547745.
In the article entitled “Lessons of a Police Chief: Militarization Is a Mistake”, Stamper looks back on the 1999 Seattle WTO situation and concludes he botched it. Worth reading.
-David Brookbank
WELL WORTH READING!
Wow!
Thanks.
greenlibertarian on January 18 at 7:48 a.m.
Ron_the_Cop on January 18 at 6:41 a.m.
Morning ChefGus,
Here’s the link to Connor’s article at the CFJ:
http://www.cforjustice.org/2012/01/16/stuckarts-list/
Also, well worth reading!
brianrbreen on January 18 at 8:48 a.m.
@Green
You may have been referring to me. I was encouraged when I saw Bragdon was on the transition team, and also guarded but encouraged when Stephens was given the interim position. Bragdon is more of a hard arse, and Stephens perhaps a little less outwardly the hard arse so they should compliment each other.
I understand both Chief Stephens and Council Presidents Stuckart’s position regarding collecting data on those incidents where an officer un-holsters his/her weapon. I do however believe it may be a good time to implement the data collection process now, just in case the SPD ends up under a P&P where the monitor will likely require that data be collected any way.
I’m more then willing to pay my share to have Condon, Stuckart, and Stephens visit departments that are currently under P&Ps so they can gain an understanding of what could be ahead, and get a good start on things. Whether or not the SPD ends up in a P&P the information they would gain for a new direction would be positive. In my view Seattle is too early in the game for a visit, but there are other departments who have been there for a while, that should have a far better understanding.
I understand why Chief Stephens feels it might have a “Chilling effect” on his officers, but if an officer can clearly articulate the reason for un-holstering his/her weapon, there shouldn’t be a problem and in the end it might help officers in the decision making process. The line troops will bitch and complain in the beginning, just like when there is any other change, but in the end it will become second nature and not that big of a deal. The example Mr. Connor refers to in his story regarding the individual “running black” seems on the surface to clearly be an example where un-holstering the weapon was appropriate.
It might also be a good idea to begin collecting data on prone searches as is done in other departments
There is a long way to go, but this looks like a good start.
ChefGus/ John Olsen on January 18 at 9:29 a.m.
There was a bit of “Truth Telling” yesterday at the meeting when it was disclosed that the SPD’s “Training” program was not “Certified” by those folks in that field that do certify that the training is up to date etc. It seems by Officer Stephens own words that it has been “Two Years or more” since the certification was allowed to lapse/drop.
He seemed fairly straight forward and oriented towards solving our problems.
The article by Norm Stamper is a must read… I was there during the riots living on 8th and Pine…. oh my God…
best John
ChefGus/ John Olsen on January 18 at 9:32 a.m.
Oh, it also was made clear that a huge mistake/gift was made to the Guild during the last negotiations….Mayor Verner put the Ombudsman’s position’s presence IN to the negotiations… which means we were screwed when we tried to tighten things up last year… Mayor Mary strikes another low blow… john
brianrbreen on January 18 at 10:02 a.m.
@ChefGus
There was discussion about obtaining CALEA accreditation back as far as 2007. Never happened, and I’m not sure anyone ever tried to take the steps to obtain it.
ChefGus/ John Olsen on January 18 at 1:23 p.m.
Officer Breen… it sounded yesterday as if we at one time Had been accredited.. and it went away in a “budget cutting” year… 15K or so was the number i think… a little bittsa trainin mightsa saves some bucks… ah well… ?Pregunta? Would you go to a Physician or Dentist that was not trained in an “Accredited Way?” not Me..j
Ron_the_Cop on January 18 at 1:55 p.m.
Chef Gus,
I really don’t much care if the SPD is accredited or not. The SCSO is currently accredited:-)
Please read my above suggestions how to bring about real change within the SPD quickly without having to deal with the MOU issues that apparently Ms. Verner gave away the kitchen sink on her way out of town.
As I mentioned in a later post up thread immediately assess/review the current higher process and the background investigations. Just because lateral hires are coming from Cali and or stopped in ID first, it’s no safe bet they are good quality hires e.g., Thompson and perhaps Hirzel. If Cali cops are coming here for our great whether DO MAKE sure they aren’t problem children in Cali.
And the other is to immediately Immediately do a top down review of the SPD academy’s curriculum especially the use of force training/instruction and ongoing instruction for existing officers. In some of these cases officers through poor tactics created the exigent circumstances that lead to the use of lethal force. From their testimony at the Thompson trial the two current SPD instructors should be reassigned.
brianrbreen on January 18 at 2:03 p.m.
@John
I know our department was at one time, and I can’t remember when they quit paying the fees. I think it is a good idea to have certification, but by the same token there is a ways to go to get to that point.
The biggest thing right now is the Guild contract and how well the city does in that regard. Most of the things in President Stuckart’s list don’t involve negotiations, and that’s a good thing. I feel there is so much that can be done without having to negotiate, but some of the things real important to the community still have to be negotiated.
Stuckart’s idea of collecting data regarding officers un-holstering weapons in my view would be a step toward demonstrating to the DOJ that the City and the SPD are on board as far as reform is concerned. Yes it might be a hassle, for the cops, but where it has happened in other cities it doesn’t seem to have caused any reluctance on the part of the officers to un-holster their weapons. I know it wouldn’t me if I were them. If the data doesn’t demonstrate anything significant after three years re-evaluate its usefulness.
I know that my prone search or felony stop position tracking may sound idiotic to some but other departments have tracked it after complaints that the techniques were sometimes used simply as a means of harassment. I don’t think we would find that to be the case here but it wouldn’t hurt to be able to show the community that it isn’t.
I really thought the issue of posting redacted un-sustained IA investigations consistent with state law on the OPO website was interesting in that it was supposed to happen long ago, but for some reason never came about during the Verner administration. Right ED? :)
Please let me know if you receive any contact regarding your complaint concerning the salute.
I really appreciate you filling us in on what transpired
ChefGus/ John Olsen on January 18 at 4:11 p.m.
Officer Breen… I am an ENFP “Meyers Briggs” and cause of that most of my decisions in my life are not nearly linear… but yesterday at the meeting I had for the first time in my 6 years back in Spokane the hope that actually something might change. I have requested through PJALS and the SPARC committee to be placed on the “Use of Force Task Force”… my “credentials’ are strong… and I hope the Mayor urges the man he has chosen to “pick the group” does call on my service.
Thanks for all you have done and your courage in being “across the blue line”… if there were more..there would be “less” bless you John
brianrbreen on January 18 at 4:46 p.m.
@John
I hope you get a spot. I very much trust that you will be fair.
generallyspeaking on January 18 at 7:58 p.m.
@Misjustice….what’s your beef with Ofc. Zinkgraf?? You just can’t seem to get over her….any comment she made seemed she was trying to be be upfront and honest…sounds like YOU started attacking HER because she had different views then yours….from what I read….seems like YOU were the one trying to start an argument with her…..posting anything and everything you could find online about her……no wonder she gave up posting on here….I have to give her credit for coming on here and taking the beating from a few people that are constantly on here….at least she tried….
misjustice on January 18 at 8:36 p.m.
Brian, Ed, David, Ron, Shelala, and anyone else that hasn’t read the story running on KXLY yet, here’s a link to comments made by Mr. Burns regarding his suggestions for “demilitarizing” the SPD, replacing their current “communications” specialist, and other ways to help the SPD improve their tarnished reputation.
http://www.kxly.com/news/30245781/detail.html
Funny, generallyspeaking/justme09/nosheet, the same could be said about your “beef” with Brian.
Shelala on January 18 at 10:19 p.m.
@Msjustice
I read through the links and other material about proposed changes from the Ombudsman and the committees. Although I am encouraged, the changes seem to address how the police are to interact with the public and media and other similar issues. IMO it does not address the core issues which created these issues in the first place such as excessive force and inappropriate behavior/response. and prosecution/investigation of police abuse. It strikes me as putting lipstick on a pig. Don’t get me wrong. The suggested changes are welcome, but IMO hardly address the problem. I feel that that time for soft approaches has long passed and more significant and drastic measures need to be explored. They probably wouldn’t want me on any boards or committees although my credentials are very good, because I would spent the time writing out examples of pink slips for most of the SPD.
greenlibertarian on January 18 at 11:17 p.m.
Funny, generallyspeaking/justme09/nosheet, the same could be said about your “beef” with Brian.
-misjustice
I know, right?
brianrbreen on January 19 at 7:26 a.m.
@misjustice
I did see that story, and I’m in agreement with Mr. Burns on all of the recommendations mentioned in the piece. I think the importance of projecting a professional image to the public via the media goes without saying. Beyond Officer DeRuwe, at the shift level I frankly don’t understand the concept of having patrol officers as PIOs. In my view one of the responsibilities of shift Sgts. and Lts. is to effectively interact with the media, after all they get paid the big bucks. At one time they received training in that area of their responsibility. I don’t know why one would want to have a Patrolman/PFC at a crime scene whose sole purpose was to deal with the media when unless they had a specific crime scene duty they should be back out on the street performing their true function.
As far as @justme09 is concerned. I’ve got no beef, and I understand what its all about so I just accept it for what it is.
generallyspeaking on January 19 at 8:26 a.m.
@Misjustice…..I am justme09/generallyspeaking…..I have never tried to cover up that fact….however I am not nosheet….you might want to get that one thru your head…..I find it telling that you didn’t have an answer to my question….WHATS your beef?? As far as Brian….he thinks he knows why I think his views are ludicrous..however I have never met the guy….never heard of the guy before he started posting on here….and there is no conspiracy theory as to why I think his views/past are irrelevant…..he and I can at least agree that it is what it is…..and accept it…SO Misjustice answer the question….WHAT is you’re beef with Zinkgraf???
brianrbreen on January 19 at 9:09 a.m.
@justme09
Just to be clear, I take your distain for me as somewhat of a compliment in that you in the past have expressed your distain for the likes of Tom Clouse, Shawn Vestal, Doug Clark and the SR in general. So I consider myself in what some might consider a pretty elite group, and for that I thank you.
ChefGus/ John Olsen on January 19 at 10:30 a.m.
Hey Brian…. I would like to “join” your “group”… the only price of admission seems to be having a real name, with an address and phone number and email. That said… none of these other guys are likely to “join” you and Ed Byrnes, Ms Justice, Jeff Grey, Mathew Root, Druid, David Brookbank and others that do not come directly to mind… and actually a fairly high percentage of us are ex military..that says something…J/ Gus
brianrbreen on January 19 at 10:40 a.m.
@ChefGus
Not only that but there is a mix of Brass, NCOs, and Grunts in that former military group. When you have a group like that either that group is in trouble (unless the NCOs take charge), or some other group is. :) :)
Shelala on January 19 at 11:06 a.m.
I was just reading KXLY’s twitter regarding a police ride along this morning. One of the reporter’s tweets mentioned that a SPD officer was awarded a snickers bar for a high score in a recent training event during roll call. Call me overly suspicious, but it would be interesting what the recent training was about and if the choice of a snickers candy bar had any subtle inference to Zehm. Maybe be innocent,, maybe not.
brianrbreen on January 19 at 11:17 a.m.
@Shelala
Unfortunately, I think your suspicions would be consistent with some of the emails I’ve mentioned.
ChefGus/ John Olsen on January 19 at 11:26 a.m.
Brian B… I was wise enough to give Specialist 5 Greer my office guy full run of the office.. he was from Little Rock… KOKY radio station license plate… and we traded Aviator’s Sun Glasses and Contact Lens fittings for “considerations”…. no doubt who runs at least the Army. Anyway, all of us on these blogs are “older” now and have much more life experience than we had when first in the service. I was a barely 23 year old with a Direct Commission as a Captain in July 1968. Gus
Shelala on January 19 at 11:42 a.m.
@Brian
I am flabbergasted that these insensitive, inappropriate, displays of defiance against the goals of SPD reform are allowed and condoned. So much for Stephan’s ability to manage his troops. This is offensive to anyone and everyone who has and is trying to create a better department attune to the community’s demands. If this action is indeed, a subtle commentary of the Zehm verdict in the present environment and with media present, then it is a strong indicator that the department needs much much deeper reform and discipline. I am appalled.
Shelala on January 19 at 11:54 a.m.
BTW, it would be interesting to see a video if any exists of the officer being presented with a snickers candy bar for scoring high on the training amid the supposed hoots and hollers of other officers during roll call. It would also be interesting to learn what training course he attended and if it bears any relation to use of force, community relations, etc.. This is right up there with the salute IMO.
generallyspeaking on January 19 at 12:37 p.m.
Cripes….NOW SPD can’t even have a candy bar without you nuts thinking it’s a BIG conspiracy theory…..people really need to get a life…..
misjustice on January 19 at 12:43 p.m.
@Shelala; see why I am calling for them all to be fired?
ChefGus/ John Olsen on January 19 at 12:43 p.m.
No Generally, you need to come into the 21st Century… start by giving us your real name?? come on big boy/girl?? John
generallyspeaking on January 19 at 12:51 p.m.
Already gave it to Lewis when he asked….sorry if you weren’t paying attention…..It’s Jerome….so now what?
brianrbreen on January 19 at 12:54 p.m.
@Shelala
I doubt it will go un-noticed, and every time one tries to be positive and supportive, something else stupid comes up.
ChefGus/ John Olsen on January 19 at 1:42 p.m.
Now what nothin Jerome…just a simple thank you for being out in the open… many of us are, and we appreciate the company… best john
Shelala on January 19 at 1:54 p.m.
@Brian
I thought there was a small glint of hopefulness that Stephans was a strong enough leader to take the reins and turn things around. At least I was willing to give him that chance. I think that the KXLY twitter reporter failed to see the significance in this act when it was reported. But maybe not because it followed some lighthearted jabs at Doug Clarke. Poke me with a fork, I’m done with believing that anything short of some real drastic measures can bring about change. The only change proposed that I am seeing is how and how much the public should know about how dysfunctional the SPD is.
Shelala on January 19 at 2:01 p.m.
In case anyone missed it or it disappears:
Nicole Hensley @blushresponse 7h
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A couple officers got little printed awards for a recent academy training. One of them got a Snickers bar for the top score
Ron_the_Cop on January 19 at 2:05 p.m.
Shelala,
My point re jawboning the US DOJ to indeed do a pattern and practice investigation of SPD:
Mr. Thomas F. Perez
Assistant Attorney General
US Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Civil Rights Division
Criminal Section - PHB
Washington, DC 20530
Further please take the time do write a letter to US Attorney Michael Ormsby and cc the AUSA that handled the Zehm case, Tim Durkin, requesting that he expand his office’s current criminal investigation to include any who aided and abetted in the cover-up of the death of Zehm for obstruction of justice. This would get those that need to be weeded out and I would bet the indictment of Treppiedi, perhaps Delaney, and Madam Mayor Verner:
US Attorney Michael Ormsby -EDWA
300 United States Courthouse
P.O. Box 1494
Spokane, Washington 99210-1494
Tim Durkin, Assistant U. S. Attorney -EDWA
300 United States Courthouse
P.O. Box 1494
Spokane, Washington 99210-1494
Shelala on January 19 at 2:11 p.m.
@Ron,
Good info. They are loading their own gun pointed towards themselves with this type of inappropriate behavior, so to speak.
Shelala on January 19 at 2:14 p.m.
@Brian
I wonder if they are so disconnected that they fail to see that the public is watching? or is it that they just don’t care?
brianrbreen on January 19 at 2:23 p.m.
@Shelala
There was a TV show years back, the name of which escapes me, but I’m sure someone would remember. It stared Robert Stack, and for some reason back in the cobwebs of my brain I think the title of the show might have some correlation with the attitude of SOME of the officers. :)
Ron_the_Cop on January 19 at 2:32 p.m.
Untouchables? ;-)
brianrbreen on January 19 at 2:35 p.m.
Yes….that was it ! :)
Shelala on January 19 at 2:40 p.m.
@Brian
I had to google that and now I get it. but I also learned he starred in the High and the Mighty and Butt-Ugly Martians.
brianrbreen on January 19 at 2:44 p.m.
@Shelala
Yah…thanks a lot for leaving an opening for @justme09 to in some way associate me with those movies.
Shelala on January 19 at 3:09 p.m.
@Brian
Ooooh, the irony. Stack played the FBI’s Eliot Ness. The FBI supposedly “scared” some officers into providing false testimony during Zehm trial. J. Edgar was the head of the FBI and a closeted cross dresser similar to poor ole former Mayor Jim West. Jim West was recalled largely by Shannon Sullivan’s efforts. Sullivan is a friend of Ron the cop. Ron the cop wants to fire the city’s notorious legal staff and get a P&P into the police abuses at SPD. Ron shares a lot of the views as Brian, an ex-SPD officer who mentioned Stack in the first place. Ta Da full circle and this whole situation must be an organized conspiracy started by Robert Stack from the grave, who may or may not know Otto depending on your belief system. Deep Brian, deep.
brianrbreen on January 19 at 3:32 p.m.
@Shelala
Yes and the old adage always follows me. “The deeper I get…. the deeper I get!”
Ron_the_Cop on January 20 at 10:33 a.m.
If there is anyone still reading this thread here’s some link to The Untouchables:
The TV series based on the book:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Untouchables_%281959_TV_series%29
The later movie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Untouchables_%28film%29
Ron_the_Cop on January 20 at 10:46 a.m.
I have called for the firing of Fire Chief Bobby Williams on many occasions.
The basis for this call is the work of now retired SFD Lt. Bill Jackman. Bill is the one that discovered and broke the AMR billing scandal. Bill took considerable blow back from the City Hell wonks for doing so. Mayor Hession let AMR of very lightly.
There is no doubt in my mind that Williams was in on this scam in talking with Jackman. Williams continues to remain Chief. Financial accountability in this department leaves a lot to be desired. Heaven help us if Williams finagles forming a fire district.
There is also the scam re the bond funding of purchasing fire equipment et al. SFD run ladder companies to medical aid calls just to get a fire/paramedic on scene. Talk about about running useless miles on this expensive fire equipment.
Anyway Bill has continued to research Williams. Here is a short piece from the CFJ when Bill and Sheriff Bamonte led a class action suit to get AMR to actually pay up more than Hession fine them:
Scandal on Wheels
http://www.cforjustice.org/2010/12/04/scandal-on-wheels/
Here are some emails I just received from Bill
*****
Mr. Vestal,
Article 2 Section 7 of the city charter lists the Mayor’s salary as equal to the salary of the highest paid employee. In the prior document (AMR Extension doc) the city listed Ch. Williams salary and benefits at $219,266 per year. In my public records request they listed his 2008 salary at $157,289.
Does a benefit package of $61,977/yr. sound a little steep to you?
His benefits alone are much higher than the average salary of Spokane citizens. I would appreciate a break down of his benefit package.
I have enclosed the document from the city that I based these numbers upon.
My public records request was for salary and benefits. Laurie only provided the salary and told me on the phone that they didn’t have any documents that showed both. ?????????????????????????????
Bill Jackman
*****
Mr. Vestal,
I posted a comment about your story this morning. I am forwarding a document from the City of Spokane that is dated 2008. On page 5, you will note the 2008 salary and benefits of the Spokane Fire Chief.
I would suspect that Verner could have requested a salary and benefit package that exceeded that of the highest City employee (the Fire Chief). Since this document is four years old, Verner’s actual compensation request could have topped $250k/yr in salary and benefits. I would guess that the Fire Chief pays more
in income tax than the average family income in Spokane.
The SFD receives what I would call a kickback from the exclusive ambulance provider (AMR) for contract administration and ambulance dispatching. Even though the SFD has never dispatched ambulances and almost nobody in the SFD has access to a copy of the contract. Furthermore, the charges by Spokane’s largest outside contractor (AMR) are not posted for public view in any City website.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2007/jan/21/spokanes-contract-with-amr-may-violate-law/
I made a public records request in 2010 for the 2008 & 2009 salary and benefits of Chief Williams. The City told me “that they have no such record of what he makes”. I already had this AMR contract extension document without their knowledge.
Please take a moment and look into the actual wages and benefits of the Spokane Fire Chief. His 2012 salary and benefits is a stepping stone to what Verner could have made
and what Mayor Condon is entitled to make.
Bill Jackman
SFD retired
Ron_the_Cop on January 20 at 12:18 p.m.
WHOA - Is Mayor Condon back pedaling of his pledge to fire Treppiedi?
Read this excerpt from Tim Connor’s latest article at the CFJ:
Rock On
http://www.cforjustice.org/2012/01/20/rock-on/
No sooner had I posted the story on our website than I began to hear from our attorneys who work on Center for Justice cases involving Spokane police. In short, the proposition that Rocky Treppiedi was no longer representing the city’s police department was news to them. They weren’t angry. But they were puzzled and clearly bemused at the difference between what I’d reported, and what they were experiencing. At our staff meeting on Wednesday, I learned very explicitly that Treppiedi was still very much involved in police cases and that no notices of withdrawal or substitution had been filed by him, or the city, in the police cases we’re involved in.
My reaction was (and is) that the press and the public had been misled. So I wrote the City’s Public Affairs officer Marlene Feist, cc’ing the Mayor, requesting clarification and a “forthright” explanation of what the plans are for Mr. Treppiedi. For the record, I did assert something in the email that Ms. Feist and the city are now disputing. I wrote in the email that Mayor Condon had told the press “that Mr. Treppiedi has been taken off all cases involving Spokane police.”
Yesterday, Feist replied that this isn’t really what the Mayor said, that, instead Condon: “indicated Mr. Treppiedi would continue to work on several open cases on behalf of the City in his role as a litigator.”
arroyoribera on January 21 at 11:53 p.m.
@Shelala: I have a tough time keeping up with everything. I just read your post and the two following above about the Snicker bar award during roll call for an SPD officer and your question as to whether or not this is some sort of reference to Otto Zehm. Thanks for posting this. We need to stay all over these people (i.e., the SPD and their brothers in the county, the SCSO). These individuals are not due any inherent respect just because of their position, titles, weapons or legal authority. We are not sheep. We are “the people” from whom all power and authority derives. Thanks for your perceptiveness and skepticism.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/jan/13/condon-team-big-on-ideas-and-jargon/?comments#c398354