A Matter Of Opinion

Monday’s Loose Thread

Posted by Gary at 9:25 a.m. on November 16 Comments (39)

I’ll be a one-armed paper hanger for the next two weeks. So it’s up to you to keep these discussions moving. Not that you ever need my help.

So, what’s on your mind today?

39 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

Ron_the_Cop on November 16 at 11:50 a.m.
FYI - Spokane Park's Board has called a special meeting of one of its subcommittee to discuss the MOBIUS Project Lease:

Special Meeting Notice

A Special Meeting of the Mobius Subcommittee of Spokane Park Board is scheduled for Tuesday, November 17, 2009, at 10:00 a.m. at HDR Engineering 1401 E. Trent, Suite 101, Spokane, Washington.

The purpose of the meeting is to discuss Lease Negotiations.

The Park Board President will call the meeting to order with discussion following then the meeting will be adjourned.

Leroy Eadie
Acting Parks Director/Park Board Secretary

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Lewis on November 16 at 1:02 p.m.
Waikiki is shut down due to construction right at the whit worth football field kicker is if you are trying to go souththey detour you over the 5 mile prairie where the road coming down the other side is also shut, if you take the detour turn onto strong road and come down that way.

Coming from Mead Str. high school to Wellesley and Monroe took 35 minutes

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Lewis on November 16 at 1:04 p.m.
but the good thing is i did not get rear ended by any drunk cops. Knock on wood.

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nslopeofw on November 16 at 1:04 p.m.
Proof that the T-baggers are not racists. The left has been trying to tag the t-baggers, just because a few loonies (which the MSM glams on to) show up at the rallies. Well, the T-baggers are showing how they truly feel about these losers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dawn-te…

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Lewis on November 16 at 3:40 p.m.
A registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the fransiskus assisi school in jakarta, indonesia, shows the registration of barack obama under the name barry soetoro made by his step-father, lolo soetoro.
Name: Barry Soetoro
Religion: ….. islam
Nationality:….. Indonesian

how did little Indonesian, Barry Soetoro, (a.k.a. barrack Obama) get around the issue of nationality to become president?
Someone who tells lies is a l __ __ r?

Part 2:
In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama’s qualifications for the presidency, the group “Americans for freedom of information” has released copies of president obama's college transcripts From occidental college. Released today, the transcript indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, Received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate at the school.
The transcript was released by occidental college in compliance with a court order in a suit brought by the group in the superior court of California.
The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright foundation scholarship program.
To qualify, for the scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship.

This document would seem to provide the smoking gun that many of obama's detractors have been seeking.
Along with the evidence that he was first born in Kenya and there is no record of him ever applying for us citizenship, this is looking pretty grim.
The news has created a firestorm at the white house as the release casts increasing doubt about obama's legitimacy and qualification to serve as president.
When reached for comment in London, where he has been in meetings with British Prime Minister Gordon brown, Obama smiled but refused comment on the issue.

Britain 's daily mail has also carried the story in a front-page article titled, “Obama eligibility questioned,”
Leading some to speculate that the story may overshadow economic issues on obama's first official visit to the u.k.

In a related matter, under growing pressure from several groups, justice antonin scalia announced that the supreme court agreed on Tuesday to hear arguments concerning obama's legal eligibility to serve as president in a case brought by Leo Donofrio of new jersey.

This lawsuit claims obama's dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president. donofrio's case is just one of 18 suits brought by citizens demanding proof of obama's citizenship or qualifications to serve as president.

Gary Kreep of the United States justice foundation has released the results of their investigation of obama's campaign spending.
This study estimates that Obama has spent upwards of $950,000 in campaign funds in the past year with eleven law firms in 12 states for legal resources to block disclosure of any of his personal records.

Mr. kreep indicated that the investigation is still on going but that the final report will be provided to the U.S. attorney general, Eric holder. Mr. holder has refused to comment on the matter.

Let other folks know this news the media won't embrace!
Neither one of the Obama pair had time to get a real job and work for a paycheck. We paid the balance on their education and travel

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spokelooneh on November 16 at 3:53 p.m.
Lewis, we debunked all that idiocy about Obama's birth certificate and “nationality” months ago on the legendary thread.

You're repeating nonsense. Try looking at Snopes before repeating such drivel.

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Diana on November 16 at 5:03 p.m.
Yeah, nslope, that's some proof that the teabaggers are not racists. One need only look at their protest signs with President Obama as Hitler, images likening the holocaust to health care reform, and slogans about Jews and Africa. If you're going to link to HuffPo, try this one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04…

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Ron_the_Cop on November 16 at 6:35 p.m.
Diana,

Lewis my misguided re the birther thing. I do have some issues why Obama was speeding a lot of legal money to block the disclosure of his long form birth cert. My speculation this all has to do with that the Kenyan may not be the real dad but could be Franklin Davis who was his stand in dad later in Hawaii.

With that said you're entitled to your own opinion but I'm somewhat sympathetic to the Tea Party movement but I don't consider myself a racists.

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spokelooneh on November 16 at 7:41 p.m.
Hell no the tea-baggers aren't racists, why just the other day some very smart guy whipped a bunch of these dolts up in a fury to protest immigrants from Europe: English, French, Spanish, Scandinavian, Polish, Italian etc.

By the end of his speech, he had the tea-baggers chanting “Columbus Go Home Columbus Go Home” with his excellent prank on their nativist bullcrap.

Yep, this young guy punked the tea-baggers, big time.

“However, at the rally in Minneapolis, the demonstrators got punk'd by a young man who called himself “Robert Erickson”.

“Erickson” got up and delivered a rant against European immigration. At first the crowd was whooping and hollering as he talked about the rights of “real Americans” — but then it gradually tapered off as he went on and they realized they'd been had.

Part of the speech:

… In Minneapolis, where I’m from, we have a huge immigrant population that’s been causing a number of problems. With the economy in recession, and so many people getting laid off, and unable to find work, immigrants should not be competing for the few jobs that are out there. It's just not fair to the folks who have a claim to this land and the right to be here. All across America, they are contributing to the flooding of our job markets making it hard for Americans to find jobs. Well, I'm fed up, and it's time to let our politicians know that enough is enough, and we're not gonna take it any more!

We need to secure our borders to protect our country. We need to restore order and put an end to the anarchy that's sweeping the nation. We need tougher immigration laws to make sure that we send these people back where they came from. We need to protect the sovereignty of the real Americans. We need to hold our politicians accountable.

It's no secret that with an invasion of immigrants comes waves of crime. We see them involved in massive theft, in murder, and bringing diseases like smallpox, which is responsible for the death of millions of Americans. These aren't new problems, though — they have been going on for hundreds of years, and continue to this day.

I say it's time for us to say enough is enough! Are you with me? Are you with me? Let's send these European immigrants back where they came from! I don't care if they are Polish, Irish, English, Italian, or Norwegian! European immigrants are responsible for the most violent and heinous crimes in the history of the world, including genocide and slavery! It's time to restore the sovereignty of people native to this land!

I want more workplace raids, starting with the big banks downtown. There are thousands of illegals working in those buildings, hiding in their offices, and taking Dakota jobs. Let's round them up and ship them out. Then we need to hit them at home where they sleep. I don’t care if we separate families, they should have known better when they came here illegally!

If we aren't able to stand up to these European immigrants, who can we stand up to? We need to send every one of them back home, right now.

Thank you very much, and we'll see you in the streets!

Columbus Go Home! Columbus Go Home! Columbus Go Home!”“

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwe…

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Ron_the_Cop on November 16 at 8:21 p.m.
Spokeloonah

LOL. OK you made your point. Sorry about the typos in the earlier post. However I do believe most folks who attend Tea Parties are mainline Americans concerned about the political process who haven't attended political rallies in the past. Yes there are extremists and political organizers/operatives in any public/political gatherings of significance.

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spokelooneh on November 16 at 9:10 p.m.
The issue isn't the teabaggers concern. Every American should have concern about the actions of their government. The issue is the teabaggers ignorance, and susceptibility to the mob mentality.

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Diana on November 16 at 9:20 p.m.
Ron, even Fox News has given up on the birther thing, but Orly Taitz may have time to file another lawsuit before she's disbarred.

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Ron_the_Cop on November 16 at 10:24 p.m.
Diana,

I'm not a birther. There are bigger issues facing this Country.

Spokelooneh,

Aren't you being a little over broad when you say “teabaggers ignorance”? Some yes but all no. I think the some are a small minority.

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Ron_the_Cop on November 16 at 10:30 p.m.
New Ox-Am Dictionary Names 'Teabagger' Word of the Year Finalist

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-she…

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nslopeofw on November 16 at 10:49 p.m.
I think Huff-Po had it right (for once). Even they can't avoid reality all of the time. Just because they wander around 10,000 people and find some stoopid signs, doesn't mean the other 9,990 people there are looney. I venture to guess that 95% of the T-bag gang is legit. Hard working American's who don't like the way the country is going. It's only natural for the left to attack them and try to deflate the ball that is rolling.

After Barry won, the left was ecstatic. Now that the truth is coming out, and the country is taking a nose dive, they are going to do anything to stop it. If this includes slamming mainstream America, they will do it.

Time to wake up, liberals. You can't blame Bush forever. Barry is going to have to own up to the FACT that his promises were just rhetoric to get into office. None of his policies have made America better, and many have driven us into the dirt financially. 3 more years of bad policy, then maybe we can get someone (Democrat or Republican) who will actually do something good for the country.

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spokelooneh on November 16 at 11:38 p.m.
You venture to guess quite often, nslope.

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Diana on November 17 at 4:48 a.m.
How comforting it must be to simply believe what you hear rather than researching the facts and thinking for yourself. Legit? The teabag astroturf “movement” is the creation of Dick Armey with lots of help from Fox. Check out the youtube videos. They appear to be protesting salad, dentists and basic education.

nslope, study up on recent history and you will see that the economic crisis did not begin with President Obama's 11 months of policy. President Cheney and VP Bush can indeed be blamed forever for driving us into the financial dirt, including the Bush 3 billion dollar a month wars, his $1.2 trillion deficit and lack of any meaningful oversight of the financial sector. “Wall Street got drunk”. Indeed. How many trillions did Bush borrow from China to fund his wars, again?

Are you still mourning the election loss of John “the fundamentals of the economy are strong” McCain?

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Jeffrey_Grey on November 17 at 5:37 a.m.
Diana,

I have to agree with both you and spokel about the statute of limitations on *any* prior administration's decisions and their impact.

I think for this nation's fundamental well being the duration *must* be longer than one election cycle.

Furthermore, I'll hazard 'a guess' of my own and predict the hysterical howls of protest should a conservative be placed in the White House in three years and - eleven months after that election - liberals would dare to suggest that the time to blame Obama had past.

The point is well taken that the current President can't blame *his* choices and their outcome on his predecessor. But to allege that those choices exist in a vacuum and that the past isn't prologue to the present is the worst kind of partisan agenda pedaling.

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Ron_the_Cop on November 17 at 8:49 a.m.
Diana,

OK Bush has some blame re the economic meltdown. However there's plenty of room on both sides of the aisle for not being watchful of OPM (Other peoples' money). The SEC was a paper tiger for 15 years leading up to Maddof's ponzi scheme tanking even with plenty of warning.

Needless to say both Frank and Dodd were pushing both Fannie Mae and Mac to buy up real estate loans driven by mortgage brokers under the Community Redevelopment Act. They were both co-opted by the players in this market they were supposed to regulate. You can't blame it all on Bush because at the time action was necessary, the Dems were in control of these committees that had oversight and failed to act.

I have nothing against providing some guarantees for low income folks to purchase houses but the industry players drove Mack trucks through this program with $500K plus liar loans. These were packaged into securities that were brokered at par value. ACORN was facilitating frauds too. These mortgage back securities' risk were re insured by AIG and other insurance giants with hedge products like derivatives. They all crapped out because they didn't understand the underlying risk of these bad apples in these securities. When the latest real estate bubble began to deflate, these bad apples soured the pot and these securities stop trading which was followed by the credit lock up.

Bottom line is you can blame both sides of the political aisle for failing to protect our money. This is what is fueling the outrage of what you refer to as the “teabaggers.” This is the same rage that drove our folks to dump the tea in Boston Harbor. In short we need to watch our government like a hawk as power does corrupt absolutely.

Which brings me back to my original post in this column about the MOBIUS Project that is being debated behind the scenes. I would linked to my blog re background info but the hosts of this blog will take exception and summarily kill my posts. The $64 question is - Why?

I will take a chance and post this comment I received from Councilperson Bob Apple (PB Council rep) as being newsworthy:

*****

Ron Wright:

Presently, we do not have a MOBIUS agreement and true to form the MOBIUS group apparently rejected our long negotiated offer in there hands since early August and have once again sent a new and damming offer they want accepted and if you want a laugh, take a look at it! At this point I believe the only thing that could pass regarding MOBIUS and the Parks Board is to give them an uncategorical “NO” or perhaps put it to a vote of the public, which is the same thing. What is really funny, is that I informed some Parks Board members in July that we should pass on our last offer because even then I know MOBIUS would never accept it and always wants more so now we can wash our hands of them completely and I believe most of the members, what just that now!

Bob Apple
*****

You can read the Park Board's latest lease that apparently the MOBIUS Project has rejected below. The Park Board was actually trying to reign in some of the overly broad and ill- advised provisions of the early agreement that the MOBIUS Project failed to perform on. I had to file a PDR to get it:

http://friendsofmarkfuhrman.org/blog/…

You can read the 2006 amended lease that the MOBUIS Project here:

http://friendsofmarkfuhrman.org/blog/…

The original lease gave the MOBIUS Project everything but the kitchen sink in a 50 year at $1 per year lease. This is public property bought for around $4M with1999 Park Bond money. This is of course was after the voters voted down the Pacific Science Center that the Park Board was touting before that.

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Arch_Druid on November 17 at 9:28 a.m.
If I hadn't been watching “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart” yesterday, I'd have thought that the latest Cal Thomas editorial was original and in his own words. The guy actually plagiarized commentary from various news sources. Doesn't matter that he agreed with the words, but he should have labeled his sources, at least, as having come from Fox News… Trial will convey weakness? That argument is as old as 24, 48, or even as early as last week old.

Try this, GW didn't know what to do with the detainees once he got them. THAT conveys weakness.

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richard on November 17 at 10:07 a.m.
When “racism” is your best excuse for trying to discount views that you perfunctorily despise, then you are short on ideas, imagination and conviction. It is the last refuge for the mindless and thoughtless.

A few signs from uninvited racists - or uninvited leftist activists “followed” by cohorts with video cameras for YouTube -does not tinge a movement … except in the heads of mindless, thoughtless nonthinkers.

Silliness is the only way to describe those who would try to make an argument - so frought with illogic - that economic conditions in this nation “belong” to the prior administration until that one “magic” date when it then “belongs” to the new administration (my guess, when the economy has significantly improved - with or without the help of the new).

Both administrations - but mostly congress - share in the fortunes or misfortunes of current economic soundness, with the prior administration's culpability at an ever decreasing level. It only makes sense. (to say it is one full term is illogical).

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Arch_Druid on November 17 at 10:16 a.m.
“Richard,” it all goes back to when the house burned down. TEA party activists (now referred to as teabaggers) waited until the Dems became a majority to start rallying. Obviously, the “concerns” are more partisan than they are about “the direction the nation is taking.” Otherwise, they could have complained a few years sooner.

I CAN discount the teabaggers (not on racism) but because they are a pound foolish and years late to show “concern” about the nation.

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nslopeofw on November 17 at 11:00 a.m.
Druid, unlike Diana, makes legit points. All Diana does is try and blame the right. That is proof that her and the lefties are anti T-bagger sticktly because they are pointing out the Messiah's shortcomings.

Diana, this IS America, where even those of us who disagree with you and the socialist leaning president can have our say. You can continue to use the anti-anti-left dogma to prove your points, but all it really does is show your dislike for freedom of speech. Rock on, true Americans!! (T.E.A. Baggers)

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Arch_Druid on November 17 at 11:09 a.m.
Thank you, Nslopeofw. There is no interest in attacking anyone. Yeah, I recognized even last year that Obama was socialist leaning and even blogged with that understanding in mind. Of course he is. That being said, it is going to take an ounce of socialism to slowly change this nation's course.

And no, after it took 8 years to burn down the house, how long will it take to rebuild it? People are simply too impatient these days.

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Jeffrey_Grey on November 17 at 11:33 a.m.
AD,

I think it may indeed be the case that some people are far too impatient these days.

But I wouldn't discount the fact that for some people, this hurry to 'forget the past and blame the present' is urged with a shifty eye toward an upcoming election.

Not that I think partisan agenda drive too much of this arguably too-short-an-attention-span nation or anything. Perish the thought!

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richard on November 17 at 12:13 p.m.
Wrong Druid - there was plenty of disagreement and objections with Bush's spending habits.

Bush is not the president. He is retired.

I am afraid that those infected with the Bush-derangement-syndrone have not had their vaccines yet, and refuse to acknowledge that the current economic direction of this nation is being driven by Obama - Pelosi - Reid.

You either accept that direction (tripling of the deficit in 11 months) or you don't. Bush is not proposing a Trillion dollar health bill nor an equally defict creating Cap and Tax bill.

Get with the NOW.

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empyrius on November 17 at 12:49 p.m.
Well the good news is: that Iraqi oil is ours!!!!!!
http://www.alternet.org/world/143879/…

Can I get a job shooting Iraqis who dare to tresspass?!? Ohhh, XE and the U.S. army beat me to it: shucks!

What is a teabEggAr anyway? A republican w/o a job. People that want this massive government to stay out of our lives but fully support laws that take away my freedom to smoke a joint (saying I know not what I do, as they drink their whiskey of course). A dude, or dudette, who does not mind spending trillions to kill people and “nation-build”, but God forbid we provide healthcare for all Americans; don't worry about that, big pharma and your insurance companies would never allow that to happen!

The sheeple hear this word “freedom” and say, “hey man look, I can blog, I am free”! You have to have internet access to blog, that costs money, and you have to have a whole lot of money if you want to air your views on TV. You just be thankful you can afford that cable bill so Glen Beck can provide your talking points. “Freedom”: har har har har.

Biggest government in the world, and growing, and you think you are “free”: har har har har.

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Arch_Druid on November 18 at 8:10 a.m.
I don't have a “Bush derangement syndrome” “Richard.” LOL! Neither am I going to forget the last 8 years, unlike some. And for some people to have ultimately disagreed with GW's spending and etc. policies; first it had to be brought to their attention.

Nice to have an internet handy. It gives you mailing addresses to send some long letters to people who proclaim themselves to be “conservative.” Just bring the facts of GW's ACTUAL liberalism to their attention. With enough time and persistence, you can change a lot of thinking and turn the GOP into a decided minority.

I plead guilty to being an actual conservative, “Richard.” And to working hard and changing a lot of thinking. All it takes is to simply use the language that these dudes had long used against the Dems, against GW as well. Speaking of waking people up.

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nslopeofw on November 18 at 9:42 a.m.
Empyrius-

Don't forget your extremely rich banner carrier, Adrianna Huffington. Not only does she have a job, she owns the paper. Most of her rhetoric is WAY left.

Although I've never attended a T rally, I sympathize with them, and (OMG) I have a job. Not only do I have a job, but i've had the same job for over 25 years. And, I really dislike paying for those who haven't had a job for 1 or more years. I also see no reason why i should pay for their health care. Maybe if they joined the military, and gave something back, but all they want is to get it for free.

I, too, see nothing wrong with firing up a blunty every once in a while, as long as booze is legal.

There are sheeple on both sides of the fence.

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empyrius on November 18 at 12:42 p.m.
Truthfully ns, I do not even know what they are “teabegging” (o, a verb now is it?!?) about. Something about big government I suppose, I can totally sympathize with those sentiments, but joining the military only adds to their ranks. You can't beat them if you join them! That is what no jobs and ever growing perpetual wars are for, 'rally round the flag boys', put the little people to work making money for the war-makers, and “rebuilders”; next stop Stalingrad, or is that Tehran, Beijing(?)!

Huffington is a cpaitalist pig dog; the only thing I have in common with her is that we breathe the same air, and I guess she is considered a human being, but there our resemblance ends . . .

Bro I am so far to the left I am right (like that word-play!), hence me and Jesus have the exact same humanistic philosophy (Wow! “Humanism” and “Jesus” in the same sentence: scary huh!).

I tried real hard to get a job bro (yes, past tense), but I receive no financial assistance from your government: so we are all good bro!

Just say no to war!

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Ron_the_Cop on November 19 at 2:54 a.m.
Hey folks did you see Brunt's page one above the fold story Wednesday? Check it out and the comment thread too:

November 18, 2009 in City
Science center plan falters

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009…

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Gary Crooks on November 19 at 8:50 a.m.
Lewis,

You're easy behind on Birther rumors. In the future post such stuff here.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/opinio…

Best to keep all the “developments” in one place to avoid confusion and duplication.

A total of 626 posts and he's still president!

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Lewis on November 19 at 12:47 p.m.
will do so sorry

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Lewis on November 19 at 1:02 p.m.
spokkloona why are you so mean? got a little man complex maybe? be civil with me please i don't throw dung at you.

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spokelooneh on November 19 at 11:40 p.m.
Lewis you posted one of THE most discredited reports about Obama, one that was literally an April Fools Joke masquerading as an AP story.

I suggested a way for you to improve and not pass around blatant falsehoods, by using Snopes. Simple as that.

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richard on November 20 at 2:29 p.m.
Druid wrote . . .

<<Neither am I going to forget the last 8 years>>

Like I said, Bush-derangement-syndrome. Why don’t you focus on the current issues being driven by the Obama administration?

I was against the increases to the Medicare program under Bush. I was against the amnesty program of Bush. I was against deficit spending of Bush.

But thank you so much for the work you seem to be doing to straighten the country out on what a true conservative is. Thanks for the “long letters” you are sending to turn the GOP into a minority party.

Because we should all become “true conservatives” like you and desire for a government take-over of the health system, the energy system, the banks, the auto companies, and anything else that strikes your fancy.

We should all become conservatives who are pro-choice and wealth redistributors. And we should also all bow at the alter of government handouts. In fact, we should - and might - also quit investing in America as well.

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Arch_Druid on November 21 at 9:32 a.m.
“Richard,” that was one very hilarious post. First, let us define pro-choice. The limits of gvt involvement in a woman's reproductive decisions. Anti-abortion is defined as TOTAL gvt involvement in a woman's reproductive decisions.

On the other hand, saw this from GMorton on endless issues: if a child is born the woman expects the state to take care of it. Actually, that is only true if the woman is utterly impoverished at the time she bears a child. Women who aren't impoverished on the other hand get a TAX DEDUCTION (wealth redistribution) for every child they have. 6 of 1 and a half dozen of the other. Let's put it bluntly, that for those of us who don't have children get to pay for those who do. So, poor women shouldn't have children? Women of middle and rich income shouldn't have children? Because that is money out of your pocket that being the case?

Conservative, “Richard,” is facing reality.

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gmorton on November 21 at 12:19 p.m.
Arch_druid wrote,

“Women who aren't impoverished on the other hand get a TAX DEDUCTION (wealth redistribution) for every child they have. 6 of 1 and a half dozen of the other.”

You're entirely right. The income tax is a free lunch scheme. That is why it should be repealed.

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Arch_Druid on November 29 at 8:24 a.m.
GMorton, that was a major LOL! The income tax gets REPEALED, everyone gets a free lunch. But, how do we pay for the following: Most importantly, the national defense? You went off the deep end on this one.

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