Nick: Will DFO Still Play Fair?

32 comments on this post so far. Add yours!

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  JBelle on March 03 at 8:32 a.m.

  Nick, I would add this:

  As a result of the recently held, wildly popular Blogfest, we don’t school each other here anymore. We don’t patronize, discount or minimalize another’s position but we do discourse, discuss, yes, debate the issues of the day.

  My read is that anyone who insists on being personal, or raising personal issues with another commenter, is not going to do well here.

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  Aliasjax on March 03 at 8:48 a.m.

  My hope for this blog is that we can cut through the right-left dichotomy that so constrains progress…too many, too often, spend all of their time arguing their antiquaited, no longer are/never were, opinions of what is true. If DFO is successful in limiting the personal attacks maybe all will be less defensive and a productive conversation will emerge…who knows?

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  Sisyphus on March 03 at 8:58 a.m.

  Interesting. I too watched with dismay as the highly partisan tone which permeated the national debate immediately upon Obama’s inauguration predictably spilled over into these comments. Good luck in stemming that tide.

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  hmoffsuite on March 03 at 9:08 a.m.

  Sis >>> ” I too watched with dismay as the highly partisan tone which permeated the national debate immediately upon Obama’s inauguration predictably spilled over into these comments.”

  As if the shots fired at Bush, McCain and Palin didn’t exist prior to the inauguration of Obama? Maybe it is easier to attack than defend? The comments directed to the above mentioned were vicious and unfair in many cases. Now we have a democrat screwing up in office and he is not fair game? It goes both ways, Sis.

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  Cindy_H on March 03 at 9:22 a.m.

  Here’s why I rarely, if ever, wade into political discussions on the blog: certain commenters seem unable to accept that intelligent people can disagree with their point of view. No matter what the topic be it local, state or national politics a few commenters seem to insist that if you disagree with them you are an idiot.
  I’m both educated and opinionated, but it’s pretty impossible to have a rational discussion with someone who ends up yelling, “Yer a moron and so’s yer Mom!”
  I’ve learned to steer clear of political waters.
  I’m just here for the firemen :-)

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  JBelle on March 03 at 9:30 a.m.

  THAT’s my girl. Only in it for the firemen. ;)

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  Kage_Mann on March 03 at 9:33 a.m.

  Change is too hard and painful for some people to accept.One group has had their way for a long time here and a few are having a hard time adapting to change.But, hopefully in the end it will all work out.

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  Me on March 03 at 9:36 a.m.

  Cindy - very well put. This is how I feel too. Back at the beginning of joining here, I engaged and gave my opinion and was immediately told I did not know what I was talking about and was uniformed and a moron. I was giving my OPINION. How I felt about a particular topic. That isn’t just stating something you think as fact and someone coming up and showing you that you were incorrect - it is someone saying you are an idiot because you FEEL the way you do.

  I even went on to try defend myself by saying that how I feel about things comes from how I was raised, where I was raised, how my family is, how I feel about my children, the jobs I’ve had, what I read, watch, listen to. I was then told I should travel more, read different things, should have come from somewhere less rural etc. In other words it didn’t matter, all those things that made me have the opinions that I have were then wrong.

  I believe everyone has a right to their opinions - including those I don’t agree with. I may not understand them, but I will listen because I DO want to understand where they are coming from and why - and I HAVE had my mind changed about things here!!! I don’t understand why others don’t have that same feeling - but instead just think someone with a differing opinion is not as smart as they are.

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  Me on March 03 at 9:37 a.m.

  Cindy - I have a really good fieman story for you sometime - maybe I’ll attend the next blogfest!

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  Cindy_H on March 03 at 9:41 a.m.

  Um. Is it an illustrated story? If so, I may not be able to wait for the next blogfest.

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  Arch_Druid on March 03 at 10:33 a.m.

  I don’t regard “me” as lacking in intelligence. Obviously, he can put sentences together just fine. But if I believe an opinion to lack in certain facts, I will suggest to anyone, to include “me” that there are books out there to read that might provide critical information to improve an understanding of a situation or issue. “Me” hasn’t been called a moron or ignorant by myself. Only ignorant about things that it wouldn’t take long to learn something about. So, there was a time when I was ignorant about the bible. People wrote many letters to the editors proclaiming a superior knowledge about the bible they believed in. So, I read the bible and had cause to question thereafter how much understanding, knowledge and acceptance these people had of the bible they believed in. Since I have called it into question, there have to date been no further letters extolling people to read the bible. Ignorance is an impetus to learn something, not a reason to get all defensive. I think over all, people get defensive because they dislike being challenged. I don’t mind being challenged, it is only through such a test that I see whether the issue I bring to the table will hold water or not.

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  Cabbage Boy on March 03 at 10:48 a.m.

  Arch, reading does not equal understanding.

  It may be a step towards understanding, but reading with a predisposition is like driving through Idaho and only seeing the pavement in front of you.

  If you want to learn, sometimes you have to seek out the wisdom of others. Even if it doesn’t mesh with our own ideals. I have learned quite a bit from people I first thought had no idea what they were talking about.

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  Me on March 03 at 10:52 a.m.

  Here is an example. I do not believe in abortion. I don’t get all radical about it, it is a personal belief that I have. I understand that it is legal in this country and I would never judge others who have made the decision. I do not believe it for myself and would try to talk loved ones out of it IF THEY ASKED ME. I don’t believe that I need to read something about abortion becasue I am ignorant about it. I don’t get defensive about it either. It is a core belief of mine that I have. Are you saying that I should “read books out there that might provide critical information to improve an understanding of the abortion issue?”

  I don’t think I’m uninformed about abortion. I have read about it, discussed it with others. I don’t believe in it. I believe that life begins at conception. That is my core belief. Are you saying that I simply need to read etc to be convinced otherwise?

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  Me on March 03 at 10:55 a.m.

  Arch - I also take issue a bit with the statement ““Me” hasn’t been called a moron or ignorant by myself. Only ignorant about things that it wouldn’t take long to learn something about.”

  Again this infers that my opinion is based on NOTHING and therefore is wrong. And ignorant. Just because the actual words idiot and moron haven’t been used, is not the implication almost the same if you believe I am ignorant?

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  Arch_Druid on March 03 at 11:15 a.m.

  “Me,” as long as you get defensive, you will never learn anything. You can get any number of good books cheap and spend time reading them. I have a good book about the GW era that I am wading through now. GW is a very painful subject with me but I am still going to read Draper’s biography of his years as president. Draper has been more than fair to the former president, and I’d suggest you pick up a copy for yourself.

  Absolutely not does it imply that you are a “moron” or an “idiot” if it is suggested that you could pick up a book, or a newspaper, or studiously go online to pick up info even on matters that you have no agreement with. By learning these things, only then are you better prepared to state your case and why. But if that is how you want it, then you will be exactly a moron or an idiot if you refuse to do so. No one has to call you that, as it will be plainly said in any of your posts.

  So, I’d suggest you move past defensiveness. I have lived in Kootenai County and am a former resident of Coeur d’Alene when it was a smaller and more rural town than it obviously is now. When the street we were on was a postal rural route and not known by the 15th street address. Only as I got older and the town had increased in population did that change. So, I am fully familiar with all of that. I don’t regard rural people as ignorant. I regard as ignorant their unwillingness to learn something. Since I grew up with books, all kinds of books, that is this kind of experience that I bring to this blog.

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  Me on March 03 at 11:25 a.m.

  I think you are still missing my point. Can I NOT have the opinion that I do about abortion and just leave it at that? Must you insist that I continue to read about it - until what? I change my mind?

  I am not getting defensive - or I should say I am defending my opinon on this and do not feel I need to explain it or prove that I have studied it. It is my belief and that is that.

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  JeanieSpokane on March 03 at 11:28 a.m.

  Cindy, very well stated and my sentiments exactly.

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  Me on March 03 at 11:32 a.m.

  So frustrating - this is a perfect example of what I’m talking about.

  “since I grew up with books, all kinds of books, that is the kind of experience that I bring to this blog”

  inferring I probably have picked up very few books - as you can tell by my opinions since they do not agree with those opinions. You don’t know me, and you don’t know what I read. I might read the EXACT same thing you do and still have a differing opinion from yours when we are finised!

  and

  if it is suggested that you could pick up a book, or a newspaper, or studiously go online to pick up info even on matters that you have no agreement with. By learning these things, only then are you better prepared to state your case and why. But if that is how you want it, then you will be exactly a moron or an idiot if you refuse to do so. No one has to call you that, as it will be plainly said in any of your posts

  Why do I have to read and then state my case and why? I don’t need links to a gazillion websites to backup my belief on abortion. And again if I don’t cite references to why I believe how I do on abortion then I will exactly be a moron or an idiot because I refuse to do so?

  ughhhh

• 

  idawa on March 03 at 11:45 a.m.

  KM - “Change is too hard and painful for some people to accept.One group has had their way for a long time here and a few are having a hard time adapting to change.But, hopefully in the end it will all work out.” - Were you talking about this blog or the election? ;)

  Anyway, the past couple days of digital navel gazing has been swell. Sound like this blog has been fully flushed and is ready for its colonoscopy doc.

• 

  Arch_Druid on March 03 at 11:48 a.m.

  In short, “me,” I am some sort of classist elitist by implication who has proceeded to make little ole you a victim.

  Never been to Harvard, sorry. The most college I saw out of NIC was some that I attended in Spokane, Washington and some that I attended while in the U.S. Army. You are right, LOL! I don’t know you. Neither do you know me. You haven’t met me. But you still presume on some ideological point of view that I can be classed or stereotyped into some political position that I actually do not have. Do I think that an opposition to abortion is lacking in validity? No. The original anti-abortion premise has a degree of validity to it. But as people in the movement began to push the envelope and to try to justify why in fact they could feel the way they do; they moved away from any valid premise for a right to life and into radical political activism where the fetus could be exploited for an end, not of its actual survival, but as a means—of achieving material power in the public square. I don’t disagree with the valid premise of right to life. I do disagree with political exploitation. And that is what it has been for the last 20 years.

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  Me on March 03 at 12:32 p.m.

  sigh. I don’t think you are a classist elitist.

  I don’t write very well - can’t form my thoughts properly so my point is very much being missed I’m afraid.

  In summary. I don’t believe in abortion. I don’t think it is because I have not read enough about it. I don’t think I will change my mind about it, but I will listen to opinions on it that differ from mine.

  the end

• 

  Charlie on March 03 at 1:55 p.m.

  ME,

  I think you made your point, I get your drift, don’t apologize. You can take 10 people who saw the same accident and each will have a different take, human nature.

• 

  hmoffsuite on March 03 at 2:19 p.m.

  Me. I understood your point early on in the thread. And, IMO, you are absolutely correct about voicing an ‘opinion’. That’s what it is and should be taken that way, only. I have offered my ‘opinion’ in the past and then had ‘prove it’ or ‘quit spewing that Rush, Hannity stuff” myself. It irritates me as well when an opinion can’t be accepted as being just that. Your opinion should be taken into consideration. :~)

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  Charlie on March 03 at 2:35 p.m.

  Just checked my dictionary and it said, Opinion—a view or judgement formed about something not necessarily based in fact or knowledge. I have lots of opinions, they are mine and therefore I will not necessarily give them up, agree to disagree, leave it at that.

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  hmoffsuite on March 03 at 2:47 p.m.

  Charlie. If you were dying and went to the Dr., and asked for his ‘opinion’, I would guess you would assign a little more value to an opinion. Opinion is an opinion. Some, however, are informed opinions.

• 

  Charlie on March 03 at 4:33 p.m.

  I guess in a Dr.’s office you get what you pay for. The free ones can be the most expensive. I should have been more specific, next time.

• 

  Stickman on March 03 at 8:53 p.m.

  Me; I get it. I actually agree with you, though I may get hammered for it. It’s not a choice, it’s a baby. We will always argue this.

• 

  Stickman on March 03 at 8:56 p.m.

  DFO will always play fair, whether we like it or not. Many may not agree, but he who has the gold makes the rules.

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